cRPG

cRPG => Events & Tournaments => Topic started by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 03:04:38 pm

Title: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion.
Post by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 03:04:38 pm
This thread is for questions, discussions and what not.

We could still use 1 or 2 refereess.

Sign-up and rules in the other thread:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8241.msg122473.html#msg122473
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on June 14, 2011, 03:17:29 pm
I got a couple of questions:

Is it possible to allow randomers to join your team? I believe this kind of event should also try to allow clan less people to join on big organized battles. cRPG isn't all about the clans.

Following up to this: Is it a problem to have a player in your team without the associated clan-tag? I my clan we have a "testing period" where the recruits aren't allowed to wear the tag, but i would still like them to join the fight sometimes.

Any restrictions on spectators?

Also, to this: "§4a: The maps used will be snowy village and ruins."

These maps are not made for big battles, they are designed for a maximum of 64 players. I think we should use other maps if possible, there is not many opportunities for strategy on those maps IMO.

There will probably be more questions later on :)

Furthermore, I am willing to help you with being a Judge and Co-organizer if you need it.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: IR_Kuoin on June 14, 2011, 03:19:25 pm
Sounds good. YAY a post before BlackMilk!  :P
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 03:41:35 pm
I got a couple of questions:

Is it possible to allow randomers to join your team? I believe this kind of event should also try to allow clan less people to join on big organized battles. cRPG isn't all about the clans.

Following up to this: Is it a problem to have a player in your team without the associated clan-tag? I my clan we have a "testing period" where the recruits aren't allowed to wear the tag, but i would still like them to join the fight sometimes.

Any restrictions on spectators?

Also, to this: "§4a: The maps used will be snowy village and ruins."

These maps are not made for big battles, they are designed for a maximum of 64 players. I think we should use other maps if possible, there is not many opportunities for strategy on those maps IMO.

There will probably be more questions later on :)

Furthermore, I am willing to help you with being a Judge and Co-organizer if you need it.

@maps. I am very welcome for other suggestions. We need two. I just picked two I knew to be balanced.

@random people: I agree with you as such. Most likely we won't get an equal number of people participating through clans. Those holes could be filled by clans.

Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 14, 2011, 03:53:50 pm
I suggest field by the river as a good map to be honest.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on June 14, 2011, 03:58:30 pm
I suggest field by the river as a good map to be honest.

Its better, but the problem is still the same as far as i can see. Its designed for a maximum of 64 players, and therefore might not be good for 120+ players.

Since there is caps on both cavalry and ranged, i'd be open for random plains/steppe.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Electro on June 14, 2011, 04:04:56 pm
I suggest either these combinations

Combination 1
Nord Town.
Feild by the river.

Combination 2
Port Assualt.
Ruins.

Combination 3
Village.
Ruined fort.

Please feel free to either mix these up to your likeing or use the combinations as they are.

Best
Electro

Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 14, 2011, 04:07:06 pm
Its better, but the problem is still the same as far as i can see. Its designed for a maximum of 64 players, and therefore might not be good for 120+ players.

Since there is caps on both cavalry and ranged, i'd be open for random plains/steppe.

Good point, yeah and designed for a lot of camping.

Maybe open maps are the best for "tactics".
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 04:10:47 pm
Any one up for this:

3) Artwork for commercials, prizes etc.

and concerning judges:

I was thinking that the commander of the two other teams not fighting could be "team" referees. Honestly I think it can be hard to find enough judges if not.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on June 14, 2011, 04:22:24 pm
I need some precision. Each team will be composed of several clan?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 04:22:55 pm
yes.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Polobow on June 14, 2011, 04:25:57 pm
Wait, how many players are in each team? There are 4 teams, huh? We might just reach the 64 players then...

What made you consider 4 teams instead of 2?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 04:33:17 pm
All in all 4 teams.

2 teams fight eachother.

each team will consist of a number of players signed up / 4.

lets hope for at least 50 on each side. That means 200 people on sign-up.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Astinus on June 14, 2011, 04:40:34 pm
Village and FBTR would work great for the event, but there should be a rule setting a team as attacker and the other defender and to don't claim flags, otherwise after the refrees have done their check you'll risk to have flag already spawned or that are going to. (well this can be tricked allowing players to kill the ref after the ispection, but it's still risky). Also with attacker and defender set before start we avoid chance to lame tactic to happen, making the overall fight more tougher and not just a "wait till flag then rush" that is going to happen

Who said that native maps are designed for 64 players? They only made some maps, without much thoughts about balance...
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on June 14, 2011, 04:44:29 pm
When the map makers made the native maps they designed them for 64 players. That was the maximum allowed number of players at that time. Later on that restriction has been removed.

And by all means, do not take village or port assault. Those maps are terrible for big teams.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Polobow on June 14, 2011, 04:46:32 pm
Not nord town either, why did someone even suggest that?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Astinus on June 14, 2011, 04:52:53 pm
When the map makers made the native maps they designed them for 64 players. That was the maximum allowed number of players at that time. Later on that restriction has been removed.

And by all means, do not take village or port assault. Those maps are terrible for big teams.
I was meaning that you are giving too many credits to map makers, dude they are the same guys that left the ladder bug in port assault after a year and lots of patches... I doubt that they thought about making maps for 64 player or that they have tested those maps by themselves with more than 10 guys.

And Village IS the native map to play in a huge battle, especially if with class restriction the defender can't spawn only ranged. Yes it turns battle into a siege like mode, but with ladders and 3 gates I think it would be awesome in a multiclan environment where commander can simply say "Fallen take gate, AB flank them and then proceed to the barn" and such
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on June 14, 2011, 05:20:20 pm
I was meaning that you are giving too many credits to map makers, dude they are the same guys that left the ladder bug in port assault after a year and lots of patches... I doubt that they thought about making maps for 64 player or that they have tested those maps by themselves with more than 10 guys.

And Village IS the native map to play in a huge battle, especially if with class restriction the defender can't spawn only ranged. Yes it turns battle into a siege like mode, but with ladders and 3 gates I think it would be awesome in a multiclan environment where commander can simply say "Fallen take gate, AB flank them and then proceed to the barn" and such

Well, here we disagree. I think the mapmakers used their head when they made the maps, although they made some mistakes.

I also want to play battle. I don't want some semi-siege without respawns. Village with 120 players is for me more like siege.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 05:34:00 pm
It is not going to be siege with assigned attackers and defenders.

I am mostly inclined towards random_plains.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: okiN on June 14, 2011, 05:40:36 pm
Random plains is fine, but Astinus is also rightly concerned about the possibility of excessive camping. That can easily happen on random maps: ranged and cav both get a big boost from the openness of the map, and this coupled with the average hilliness of random maps can easily encourage a huge campfest for one or both teams. Waiting for flags isn't really anybody's idea of a good time, I think.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 05:42:26 pm
So random plains with assigned attackers and defenders?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Casimir on June 14, 2011, 07:47:37 pm
field by river, disallow entrance to the ruins.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 07:59:54 pm
Didn't write it to begin with but is considering adding a rule that says only 25% of the cav may be better than destrier?!
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Casimir on June 14, 2011, 08:06:52 pm
well as it stands 25% of the team could take plated chargers, which would screw the balance a bit. so yeah i'm for the above rule or one similar to it.

p.s. applied for ref if you need one.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Keshian on June 14, 2011, 08:11:02 pm
20 rounds for each match up seems a bit excessive, especially with the number of people playing.  It might be hard to have people hang around for hours for that kind of setup.  Why not best out of 5 for each matchup?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: okiN on June 14, 2011, 08:14:36 pm
Best of five is too sudden death, and also over so quickly as to be anticlimactic. Ten rounds played could be good, though, maybe 11 for a tie breaker.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 14, 2011, 08:15:21 pm
20 rounds for each match up seems a bit excessive, especially with the number of people playing.  It might be hard to have people hang around for hours for that kind of setup.  Why not best out of 5 for each matchup?

This might be true as well.

In all honesty I chose 20 round as this has been the standard in the smaller tournaments.

50 vs. 50 would still end in like 6 min.

So 10 rounds would last about an hour. Sounds reasonable.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on June 14, 2011, 11:50:49 pm
20 round is a lot of fun , don't listen too boring people !
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: okiN on June 14, 2011, 11:58:23 pm
Could perhaps split the difference at 15 rounds? That'd be a neat tie breaking number as well.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 15, 2011, 12:48:37 am
15 rounds on random plains. 3 map changes (as we cannot spawn change on random plains).

Should we designate attackers and defenders? I'm not sure it's necessary on random plains.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 15, 2011, 12:54:26 am
Attackers = team 1 first round, team 2 second round, etc etc.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Cosmos_Shielder on June 15, 2011, 08:43:31 am
15 rounds on random plains. 3 map changes (as we cannot spawn change on random plains).

Should we designate attackers and defenders? I'm not sure it's necessary on random plains.
15 rounds sound great to me :).
Maybe asking the leader of both team if they agree about the map (random plain with hill at spawn can give a tactical advantage to one of the team.) and if one disagree , then just generate other plain
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Astinus on June 15, 2011, 11:26:45 am
Actually in crpg you can change spawn in random plain, but why an odd number of rounds? Make it 14 or 16 in just 2 maps
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 15, 2011, 11:53:24 am
15 rounds is fine.
7:7 = tie (when it's 14) 8:8 = tie (when it's 16)

at 15 you can never have a tie and always have a definite winner.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Astinus on June 15, 2011, 11:54:51 am
15 rounds is fine.
7:7 = tie (when it's 14) 8:8 = tie (when it's 16)

at 15 you can never have a tie and always have a definite winner.
but you also have a round where a team got advantage, because of the attacker/defender split
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Electro on June 15, 2011, 12:02:33 pm
15 rounds is fine.
7:7 = tie (when it's 14) 8:8 = tie (when it's 16)

at 15 you can never have a tie and always have a definite winner.
but you also have a round where a team got advantage, because of the attacker/defender split

that is why i would not like the attacker/defender

we should just keep it "vannila" each team dose what they want if they camp fucking tough luck
you either camp aswell or bum rush them or wait for flags dont whine just do the same as them.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 15, 2011, 12:05:38 pm
Aslong as the time stays on 6 minutes, sure.

With flags we have 2 sides attacking which is fine as well I think
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: okiN on June 15, 2011, 12:28:31 pm
but you also have a round where a team got advantage, because of the attacker/defender split

If we do the attacker/defender thing, then we could just decide the last round is freestyle. Problem solved.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 15, 2011, 12:30:04 pm
:D
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 15, 2011, 01:14:27 pm
Added a rule that only 25% of the cav may be more expensive than destrier.

Also I added a clarification that all numbers are rounded down. If we have 50 man battles then you may have 12 horsemen and 12 archers etc.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jarlek on June 15, 2011, 01:45:07 pm
What about any of these? http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2534

They are mostly big maps and not that unbalanced. I especially like the River Delta and think it would be perfect for a huge battle. The Bazaar would also be great for flanking tactics and ambushes. What do you think?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Electro on June 15, 2011, 01:46:46 pm
i prefer Dune and Quarry they would be my favourite.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 15, 2011, 01:48:59 pm
Dune and Quarry are the not-laggy maps from those.

Also the village one is not that laggy but meh.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jarlek on June 15, 2011, 01:49:32 pm
Yeah, dune is awesome but it's also a bit small. But with 50 and less players it's one of my favorite maps :D
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Astinus on June 15, 2011, 01:58:37 pm
that is why i would not like the attacker/defender

we should just keep it "vannila" each team dose what they want if they camp fucking tough luck
you either camp aswell or bum rush them or wait for flags dont whine just do the same as them.
if we are going to play on random maps, we need attacker/defender, otherwise it could end up in a frustrating match where one team gets better spawn AND flag spawning near it, which is kinda lame imo.

If we are going to use native maps maybe we can play without it, but I think that huge battles need something like that to make it a real battle and not just camp and flag rush party
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Beauchamp on June 15, 2011, 05:27:52 pm
it will be extremelly difficult if not impossible to control whether 25 percent of players have horse, ranged wep and what kind of armor among such a huge number of players and teams.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: SchokoSchaf on June 15, 2011, 05:39:35 pm
I don't think it would be impossible, to back up me words, I'll offer to help with the organizing/controlling (provided I'm not at work, since you haven't set a date yet).
Our clan will most likely have more than 5 players but not 10 for sure, so I'll can make myself useful as well.
Other question - lightly related - can you switch the active players and substitutes between rounds? So lets say Member A plays 5 rounds, then swaps with Member B?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 15, 2011, 06:08:45 pm
Other question - lightly related - can you switch the active players and substitutes between rounds? So lets say Member A plays 5 rounds, then swaps with Member B?

As such I see no problem with this. However it may cause an organizational nightmare. What if members are different classes with restrictions?
What if he forgot to spawn etc.

If you plan to do so agree before hand how it is going to work and clear it with the team commander.

@Beauchamp: I don't think so if people follow the rules and stand still or move to their corner. It will take like 1 min.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Sign-Up and Rules. Sign-up closes 22/6-11
Post by: Gnjus on June 15, 2011, 07:48:29 pm
Quote
§6: Battles will take place on either Fridays, Saturdays or Sundays.

I think you're making a skewer while your rabbit is still hopping around the woods.

I cannot sign up my clan if we don't even know how many of these matches will there be and on what day of the week will they happen. If it's sunday you can sign us up for 10 people but if it happens to be friday or saturday evening i don't know if i can field even 5 men, and signing up for something if I'm not 100% sure that i will be able to attend it is just not my sport. I think we need more details before we can sign up with correct numbers or a good part of people who signed up will not show up.
Title: Re: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Sign-Up and Rules. Sign-up closes 22/6-11
Post by: Kansuke on June 15, 2011, 09:39:28 pm
I think we need more details before we can sign up with correct numbers or a good part of people who signed up will not show up.

I second that, give us more details on date/time before the sign-up close please.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: okiN on June 15, 2011, 09:55:25 pm
Yeah, we Varangians have got the recommended seven signups ready, but of course it's impossible to know how many of them can actually make the battles until we have more info. Depending on how many signups you have by next week it might not be an issue, but it's possible there will be a drop in player count when the dates are set.

(moved those last two posts to discussion topic)
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 15, 2011, 11:34:20 pm
So you suggest that we just go ahead and say a date and time for all matches allready?

I can definitely see the merit in that!

You think it is possible to have two teams fight at the same time? We have servers enough for that?

I would suggest something along the lines of:

Option 1:
(click to show/hide)

Option 2:
The same as above but on saturdays

Option 3:
(click to show/hide)

I don't know how to make a vote. Can someone help me?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: Electro on June 15, 2011, 11:50:56 pm
So you suggest that we just go ahead and say a date and time for all matches allready?

I can definitely see the merit in that!

You think it is possible to have two teams fight at the same time? We have servers enough for that?

I would suggest something along the lines of:

Option 1:
(click to show/hide)

Option 2:
The same as above but on saturdays

Option 3:
(click to show/hide)

I don't know how to make a vote. Can someone help me?


i suggest you do this

Team 1 vs. Team 2 = Saturday the 25th of June 18.00 GMT (20.00 CET)
Team 3 vs. Team 4 = Saturday the 25th of June 19.00 GMT (21.00 CET)

Team 1 vs. Team 3 = Sunday the 26th of July 18.00 GMT (20.00 CET)
Team 2 vs. Team 4 = Sunday the 26th of July 19.00 GMT (21.00 CET)

Team 1 vs. Team 4 = Saturday the 2nd of July 18.00 GMT (20.00 CET)
Team 2 vs. Team 3 = Saturday the 2nd of July 19.00 GMT (21.00 CET)

alot smarter in my opinion ....
(this is only for option 3 )

Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: Tristan on June 15, 2011, 11:51:56 pm
Yes... A bug. Edited :D thx Electro...
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: Tristan on June 16, 2011, 12:00:01 am
Reset the poll and added three new options.

It might be necessary to do so in order to get judges, servers etc.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: Tristan on June 16, 2011, 12:37:20 pm
By the looks of it we are going for Sundays at 18.00 with two battles running at the same time.
However, if we cannot get servers &/or referees for this we will be running first match at 17gmt and second match 19gmt.

I would like each clan to specify before Sunday if they join with 10 or 15 now that the match date are known.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: krampe on June 16, 2011, 01:46:32 pm
Btw what about midgame "classchange" ? Like picking up a xbow or mounting a free horse concerning the class limit?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: Tristan on June 16, 2011, 03:38:37 pm
Btw what about midgame "classchange" ? Like picking up a xbow or mounting a free horse concerning the class limit?

You can take loot from friends and enemies when they are dead and keep it for that round. For next round one must have the original equipment agreed upon.
That also means that you ranged char cannot bring two bows and ask a two hander to take some arrows etc.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: ManOfWar on June 16, 2011, 06:38:51 pm
You guys really need to record this, Sign up RipperX!
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: okiN on June 16, 2011, 06:42:56 pm
Tru dat.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: Tristan on June 16, 2011, 10:28:37 pm
I have already contacted RipperX. No response yet.


Edit: he responded. There will be video.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: Electro on June 17, 2011, 12:56:06 am
is there any chance of Confirming a date yet ?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion & IMPORTANT VOTE!!!!!
Post by: Tristan on June 17, 2011, 01:00:52 am
Yeah I'll let the Poll run for tomorrow afternoon as well, but unless something seriously changes we're aiming for Sunday.

If possible both matches 18.00 but because of recordings, referees etc. it might be 17.00gmt and 19.00 gmt.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 18, 2011, 12:43:11 am
Would any NA's be interested in being referees?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: MountedRhader on June 18, 2011, 10:22:33 am
I'm quite a dastard with the GMT timing, as I've never participated in these clan-based battles before.. I'm guessing that if it's ~1:20 am on the west coast, it would be 7 GMT? What would 18 GMT be then?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: okiN on June 18, 2011, 10:38:05 am
PST = UTC-8, which would put you at 10:00.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 18, 2011, 08:48:48 pm
I'm quite a dastard with the GMT timing, as I've never participated in these clan-based battles before.. I'm guessing that if it's ~1:20 am on the west coast, it would be 7 GMT? What would 18 GMT be then?

West coast is about GMT-8 hours
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/info/timezone.htm

1800 GMT/Zulu time would be 10AM for you if you live on the west coast.

EDIT: Basically posted the link for everyone else who has problems with time zone conversions. Just click on the link above and find your timezone, easy.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 20, 2011, 05:40:31 pm
what about on random plains map, no/few chance of glitching and it gives tactics and teamwork a better chance

me need to read before post
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 20, 2011, 05:41:50 pm
I think it is going to be Random Plains.

I have yet to decide if one team has to be nominated as offensive/defensive team. Need more opinions!
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 20, 2011, 05:45:16 pm
Changed a rule:

Before substitutes were only allowed within your own clan.

Substitutes can now be accepted from other clan/randomers ONLY IF opposite team commander accepts.

If He accepts the referees of the match must approve the substitute and then only can the substitute play.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 20, 2011, 06:22:19 pm
sounds like a fair rule,

but no, I would not assign an attacking and a defending team. It will give one team "a license to camp", if both teams start with a little amping, which is normal, in the end, they'll get closer and closer. But if you say one team defends and one team attacks, the attackers will have to attack, while the defenders don't have to do anything. Moving up, holding the formation, timing the charge...those are all parts of tactics and strategy, it shows who is the best commander. please don't take that away =)

so far my opinion

btw, when will we know the teams?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Sharky on June 20, 2011, 06:54:06 pm
wrong thread  :D
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tydeus on June 20, 2011, 07:21:53 pm
What if you charged entrance fees for each clan, 25K gold per member. Then gave 75% of the gold to the winner of the tourney and shared the other 25% with the volunteer referees. Might help getting more refs/judges and I'm sure the winning team wouldn't mind getting at least some sort of reward. Could give the gold to the commander and have him do with it as he sees fit. Maybe he'd give it to the mvp(s) on the team or use it to buy +1 looms and give them out randomly. Who knows, just a suggestion and 25K for established clans doesn't seem like much, but I have no shortage of gold myself so maybe that's skewed my perspective quite a bit.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: okiN on June 20, 2011, 07:53:07 pm
That would make the whole thing infinitely more competitive, and probably cut signups in half. Pretty counterproductive, really, given the nature of the project.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on June 20, 2011, 08:01:31 pm
I agree, who cares about a little crpg gold?

Anyway, I do not think you should use random maps and I do not think you should use the native maps. They mostly suck.
Random maps especially can be very frustrating if you keep getting mountain ranges when you want plains.

It would not be hard to make some custom maps similar to an actual plains you know. I could make a couple quite easily... If you want them.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 20, 2011, 08:14:39 pm
@Tydeus' Idea
the prize of winning this will be a whole lot of respect, worth more than any coin.
besides, rule number one makes your idea inpossible:

§1: The purpose of this tournament is for different clans to work together and have fun doing so. The point is, that here is the chance to work together with your enemies and against your friends.

fun and teamwork, not gold

@Plazeks proposal:
prefabbing plains could be good, but you'll have the same plains over and over again. with random maps you'll have to adapt and think quick. also prevents exploiting of certain positions (e.g. a hill near the spawn of one team, that team will probably camp it all the time)
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jarlek on June 20, 2011, 08:32:43 pm
Jeez. There are no random maps. All of them where made using the random map generator and then they were made static. Random_Planes_27 (or whatever the name they have) will always be the same. The only way for it to change would be to change it manually, i.e. upload a new map in its name.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 20, 2011, 08:50:22 pm
yeah, i know that, but, i mean, just use the different "random" maps trough each other,  there are like a hundred of them
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tydeus on June 20, 2011, 08:57:59 pm
That would make the whole thing infinitely more competitive, and probably cut signups in half. Pretty counterproductive, really, given the nature of the project.
Alright, then don't have a pot for the victors, cut the fee to like 5-10K per person and only use it for referees. I volunteered as a ref with no expectation of anything like this, then I found out that we're still short a number of referees. I have enough gold and wouldn't take any offered to me for this so I'm not trying to get rich off of anyone(I already have more gold than I know what to do with).

@Tydeus' Idea
the prize of winning this will be a whole lot of respect, worth more than any coin.
besides, rule number one makes your idea inpossible:

§1: The purpose of this tournament is for different clans to work together and have fun doing so. The point is, that here is the chance to work together with your enemies and against your friends.

fun and teamwork, not gold
20K per person with a maximum of 400 people involved is only 800K gold. That's really minor when you look at the fact that each team would have 100 players. 8K gold per player as a reward is nothing to get competitive about. Regardless, as stated above, you could simply just use the entrance fee to help get more refs. We're talking about having volunteers spectate for multiple hours, that's not exactly exciting and I can see how people wouldn't want to do it(then again, I am so who knows).
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 20, 2011, 09:15:04 pm
suggest you have a dancing club, max capacity= 300 peeps
your club gets full, and all of a sudden, you demand all those people inside to give them money.

1. not everyone will like that, it's not about the amount of gold, its just, suddenly having to pay
2. if you'd ask me: administrational nightare
3. if you only get 8K gold, whats the point then. You could earn it in 30 mins playing. If you then say it's not for the money, then why ask and give it?

but, you have a point on the refs, they might wanna recieve some money, maybe a small fee per clan, there won't be hundreds of refs to pay. but of course, when is a sum high enough to make people wanna do the referring for the money, which is imo a bad reason.

I stay with my statement, respect is the prize, as well for the winners, as for all the participants, and especially for the refs and of course the organizers
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on June 20, 2011, 09:17:10 pm
As an aside, by plains like maps I meant maps that are open and fit for large organised battles. With a balance to them and a bit more interesting than the current "random" plains CRPG has. Having features such as a small village here, a farm there, a bridge and a river etc.

But if people are happy with the current maps all the less work for me, or anyone else who wants to improve this thing :P
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 20, 2011, 09:20:38 pm
well, yea, you cold indeed make something with a river and a small forest and such, but it will be hard to get it all balanced out
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tydeus on June 20, 2011, 09:46:03 pm
suggest you have a dancing club, max capacity= 300 peeps
your club gets full, and all of a sudden, you demand all those people inside to give them money.

1. not everyone will like that, it's not about the amount of gold, its just, suddenly having to pay
2. if you'd ask me: administrational nightare
3. if you only get 8K gold, whats the point then. You could earn it in 30 mins playing. If you then say it's not for the money, then why ask and give it?

but, you have a point on the refs, they might wanna recieve some money, maybe a small fee per clan, there won't be hundreds of refs to pay. but of course, when is a sum high enough to make people wanna do the referring for the money, which is imo a bad reason.

I stay with my statement, respect is the prize, as well for the winners, as for all the participants, and especially for the refs and of course the organizers
Well when I came up with the idea I wasn't thinking about a reward for winners, just a way to maybe get one or two more refs. The idea crossed my mind about a reward and I didn't give it much thought, just threw it in with the rest. There is still a week before the start of the tourney, maybe enough time to grab more refs without the need of any sort of payment.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: okiN on June 20, 2011, 09:48:30 pm
I suppose if it really comes to that I can put myself down as a substitute for our clan's squad and referee if we have enough players without me. I'd hope we'll be able to get enough of them somehow without resorting to bribes.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jarlek on June 21, 2011, 01:41:09 am
Yeah same as Okin. Can referee if we don't have enough of them. Not like there aren't enough Risen to fill my spot.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 21, 2011, 01:42:21 am
20 Risens? Do-able with some announcing.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 21, 2011, 02:28:30 am
@ risen:

You signed up with 20. If less please announce so within tomorrow.


@prize:
Not this time, it would then be announced beforehand, not after. First I want to see how all of this is going to roll out. Believe me, the biggest job is not either the referees or something else. I'll find those referees.

@Fun:
This is the first time 300 players have joined together in a common tournament. It's an experiment and wonderful one. Its a testimony to the community of cRPG.

@Referees:
Do NOT be afraid to suggest yourself or others as referees. And do not be sad if you are rejected.

I look forward to the tournament and is very impressed that we crossed the 200 participant min by far. 300 people joining together is very, very impressive.
Kudos to all of you out there!!!
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 21, 2011, 01:04:39 pm
Kudos to all of you out there!!!

do we get a kiss from the avatar ? :D

but indeed, 300 warriors united is.... eh......uh.........hm........ a lot
looking forward to this
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 21, 2011, 01:33:02 pm
Just to confirm, it's upcoming sunday, right?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 21, 2011, 01:46:17 pm
Yes the first two matches...
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 21, 2011, 02:53:27 pm
when do we know the teams?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Lorenzo_of_Iberia on June 21, 2011, 03:06:19 pm
I think knowing the teams would be useful sooner rather than last minute as I can imagine there is gonna be a huge clash in teams organising who will play what class e.g. us Great Khans would preferably be allowed to all be cav (there is only 5 of us) but we dont know what teams there will be and it may be too many people want to play one class.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 21, 2011, 03:06:48 pm
Hopefully Thursday evening.

If anyone wants to speed up the process gathering all contact persons from each clan signed up would be a huge help.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 21, 2011, 03:44:45 pm
I'd like everyone to rate the teams from 1-5, where 5 is the best. You can do it here of if you feel like be more subtle through PM.
Clan leaders ESPECIALLY.

Clans participating: Number of Participants : You rating.

Fallen : 20 :
Risen : 20 :
Teutonic Order : 20 :
The Pillagers : 20 :

22nd: 15:
Acre: 15:
Kapikuulu: 15:
SoA: 15:
Strangers: 15:
Wolves: 15:

Bandits: 10:
Bashibazouks: 10:
Caravan Guild: 10:
Hre: 10:
Legion Italica: 10:
Nordmen of Fenada: 10:
Pecores: 10:
Shogunate: 10:
Templar: 10:

Brothers in Arms: 5:
Great Khans: 5:
Inglorious Basterds: 5:
Ninjas: 5:
Ruconquiste: 5:
Varangians: 5:
Warpigs: 5:
Wolpertingers: 5:
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Ujin on June 21, 2011, 07:04:12 pm
team 1    -5

team 2 - 4

team 3 -  4

team 4  -   3

No offence to anyone, i just think that teams with less clans but more players representing each clan are more easy to coordinate.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on June 21, 2011, 07:14:18 pm
I think you will find Ujin, that you have misunderstood.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 21, 2011, 07:20:51 pm
No he did not. I send him an early draft. It has been worked on since and will soon be open for discussion.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Olwen on June 21, 2011, 07:22:07 pm
will it be open for some randomers to fil the gaps ?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 21, 2011, 07:22:51 pm
Apply the Grey with 1 man :D
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 21, 2011, 07:24:11 pm
will it be open for some randomers to fil the gaps ?

Currently there are not Gaps. HOWEVER, we might still risk some people not being able to show up with enough that they have promised so Substitues might very very well be needed.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 21, 2011, 09:50:56 pm
Team1 - 5

Team2- 4

Team3- 3

Team4- 5
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Polobow on June 21, 2011, 10:53:24 pm
Team1 - 7
Team2 - 6
Team3 - 7
Team4 - 7
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jeez on June 21, 2011, 11:18:47 pm
where does 7 fit between 1-5  :shock:
you're the god of math, sorry for bump
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: okiN on June 21, 2011, 11:21:41 pm
I sort of assumed he was going for a 1-10 scale.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Bulzur on June 22, 2011, 08:34:58 pm
Humm, some little questions we wanted to clarify before friday at least :

What will be the two maps on where the 75vs75 will take place ?
Are you having difficulty finding servers for the event ?
Do you like roosters ?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 22, 2011, 09:19:31 pm
-Yeah Roosters are nice. No need for official Rosters and they won't be public. Its only so the teams have prepared themselves to obey the rules.
I will suggest they be send to neutral judges in order to document they can participate with a team within the rules.

- The map will be Random Plains. We have yet to decide if we want attacker/defender status.

- Yes, I have some what problems with servers. The server must be manipulated for 160 persons. I know Odin has said yes, and will talk more with him after my exam tomorrow. On the other hand I have asked Espu/Vargas if it was possible to borrow official servers. I yet lack an answer there. Suggestions and ideas are very welcome.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Bjarky on June 22, 2011, 10:30:59 pm
yeah if we could borrow eu3 for this, that would really be for the best, fps and lag wise  :P
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 22, 2011, 10:58:28 pm
-Yeah Roosters are nice. No need for official Rosters and they won't be public. Its only so the teams have prepared themselves to obey the rules.
I will suggest they be send to neutral judges in order to document they can participate with a team within the rules.

- The map will be Random Plains. We have yet to decide if we want attacker/defender status.

- Yes, I have some what problems with servers. The server must be manipulated for 160 persons. I know Odin has said yes, and will talk more with him after my exam tomorrow. On the other hand I have asked Espu/Vargas if it was possible to borrow official servers. I yet lack an answer there. Suggestions and ideas are very welcome.

At the Fallen Servers, I want to mention that EVERY SINGLE DANISH USER will have >150 ping.

That means a lot of us can't play for the record.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on June 22, 2011, 11:01:02 pm
At the Fallen Servers, I want to mention that EVERY SINGLE DANISH USER will have >150 ping.

That means a lot of us can't play for the record.

The server is actually quite weird.

I'm starting to have 50-60 ping as a Dane, so i'm not sure about the theory.

Anyway, I hope we'll get EU_3 instead.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Thovex on June 22, 2011, 11:04:22 pm
The server is actually quite weird.

I'm starting to have 50-60 ping as a Dane, so i'm not sure about the theory.

Anyway, I hope we'll get EU_3 instead.

If that's the case then it will be no problem.

Before, Fallen explained me a problem with packages and reasons why Danish people got loads of ping (Reason why we completely fucked up one of the fallen tournaments where all people was danish  :) )
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on June 22, 2011, 11:11:02 pm
If that's the case then it will be no problem.

Before, Fallen explained me a problem with packages and reasons why Danish people got loads of ping (Reason why we completely fucked up one of the fallen tournaments where all people was danish  :) )

That was what we believed.

I'm still not sure about it, other danish members have reported they still got bad ping on the server.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 23, 2011, 12:24:32 am
Så kan det være jeg også skal checke?

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Bjarky on June 23, 2011, 12:40:32 am
well i got the high ping and it builds up heavy the more people get on, it's very odd, nothing like other servers.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jarlek on June 23, 2011, 01:04:24 am
Well try to get as many servers as you can reserved. Then we check out our first choice (eu3 if we can get it) and if that becomes too much lagg for some people or stress on the server then we try on another one. This is probably the biggest fights that cRPG has had so we kinda have to check if the servers can handle it...
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Bjarky on June 23, 2011, 01:14:46 am
well we do know from strategus that eu3 can handle the pressure icecold  8-)
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Jarlek on June 23, 2011, 01:18:04 am
well we do know from strategus that eu3 can handle the pressure icecold  8-)
Oh yeah! 8-)
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Clown on June 23, 2011, 01:52:55 am
This thread is for questions, discussions and what not.

We still need referees NOT participating. Any NA's up for it?

Please respond to this post:

Sign-up and rules in the other thread:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8241.msg122473.html#msg122473

Its RuConquista not Ruconquiste
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 23, 2011, 02:28:38 am
Its RuConquista not Ruconquiste

Sorry. A simple typo. Shall be edited in due time.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: a_bear_irl on June 23, 2011, 07:39:52 am
I'd be up for refereeing if you still need them, I'm NA and don't have ties to any of the clans participating. Haven't done any refereeing before, though.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 23, 2011, 05:35:26 pm
We have still not decided if anyone team should be assigned the role of offense and the other defense and the  switch? Or just let the game play out?


There will be 15 rounds with three map changes, all maps are random plains. Battles cannot last more than 1 hour and 30 minutes. (we need the room on the servers).
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Astinus on June 23, 2011, 05:55:42 pm
As I already said, my native experience in huge battle on random plains suggest to use attacker/defender otherwise you risk a team can easily win only because they have a hill near the spawn with the flag spawning there. If you consider that often the flag can spawn in the same spot for the whole 5 rounds I think everyone can agree that this isn't the way we want to play something competitive.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Overdriven on June 23, 2011, 06:04:32 pm
We have still not decided if anyone team should be assigned the role of offense and the other defense and the  switch? Or just let the game play out?


There will be 15 rounds with three map changes, all maps are random plains. Battles cannot last more than 1 hour and 30 minutes. (we need the room on the servers).

I like the sound of just letting it play out. It's open plains, so hopefully there shouldn't really be anywhere to camp for one team. Should mean both teams attack properly.

But perhaps if it's obvious that one team has a definite terrain advantage, switch the sides half way through.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 23, 2011, 06:06:01 pm
I like the sound of just letting it play out. It's open plains, so hopefully there shouldn't really be anywhere to camp for one team. Should mean both teams attack properly.

But perhaps if it's obvious that one team has a definite terrain advantage, switch the sides half way through.

You cannot switch sides in random open plains. Only three map changes will happen and they will correspond to switching sides.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 23, 2011, 06:24:58 pm
EDIT whoops
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on June 24, 2011, 02:56:00 pm
Personally, i think the battles will be just fine if there's enough organization. I don't think the camping will be too excessive.

Some things about the rules though:

Ever considered using random steppe instead? It has a tendency to be less hilly, which is something i believe everyone wants.

And; don't you think using medium size is a little small? There's gonna be 150 people playing, we should make sure there's space.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion
Post by: Tristan on June 24, 2011, 03:02:36 pm
I tested it yesterday. The large random plains is very large. But I am as usual very interested in other opinions.

I'll make a vote...
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion. Map Poll Added.
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on June 24, 2011, 03:11:05 pm
In a game such as this I do not see a large map size as a problem.

People will surely be patient enough to wait for the action a little while. There will be more time for manouverings and more possibility for strategy.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion.
Post by: Tristan on June 26, 2011, 02:12:59 am
Map will by popular vote be Large Steppe.
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion.
Post by: Renay on June 26, 2011, 04:45:53 pm
Where can I find out what the teams are?
Title: Re: Huge Multi-Clan-Team Tournament: Discussion.
Post by: Teeth on June 26, 2011, 04:50:28 pm
They are spoilered in this topic http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8764.0.html