cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => The Chamber of Tears => Topic started by: Panos_Tournament on February 06, 2018, 01:54:38 pm

Title: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 06, 2018, 01:54:38 pm
Yay or nay?

The majority of the players are unhappy, server population steadily goes down, eu1 is infested with cunts like Zero_Sat, who I have to admit is a pretty good HA, but also a cunt.

So, I am opening a poll, to decide for a new balancers team.


Archer, xbower, Cavalry, 2hander, Shielder, polearmer, thrower.

7 classes, 7 NEW balancers, 1 from each class.

Discuss and vote nerds, because seriously, I am sick and tired of those NA fucks fucking up my beloved crpg.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 06, 2018, 01:57:33 pm
And for fuck sake, the balancers should play the mod every once in a while.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Razzer on February 06, 2018, 02:01:41 pm
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Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: njames89 on February 06, 2018, 02:29:50 pm
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Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 06, 2018, 02:31:28 pm
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Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: BlackxBird on February 06, 2018, 02:35:37 pm
Panos. Basicly everyone who has influence on the game right now is from NA. Insulting all of them is a interresting, yet probably not the best, way to become influencial on ur own.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 06, 2018, 02:37:27 pm
They re big boys, I bet they can handle some minor insults.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Ikarus on February 06, 2018, 02:40:45 pm
"Gee willy wonkers, it's almost as if I was the only game mechanic expert in this mod! And these idiots just won't listen to me, everybody should listen up and respect my opinions when I swear at them!"

This actually fits to a handful of players lately, sadly flailing torches and forks doesn't really bring any progress, same goes for "do something, just anything!"-polls

"listen to me, retard" isn't really a way to get somebody to think about your ideas, in fact quite the contrary

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Quote
They re big boys, I bet they can handle some minor insults.
"I'm not an asshole, everybody else is just too whiny and should just man up!"

that's some Jarlek mentality right there
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: njames89 on February 06, 2018, 02:41:11 pm
They re big boys, I bet they can handle some minor insults.

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Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: BlackxBird on February 06, 2018, 02:44:58 pm
They re big boys, I bet they can handle some minor insults.

I mean by now u should know this community. If u make them a little mad once they hate u a lifetime
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 06, 2018, 02:45:51 pm
"Gee willy wonkers, it's almost as if I was the only game mechanic expert in this mod! And these idiots just won't listen to me, everybody should listen up and respect my opinions when I swear at them!"

This actually fits to a handful of players lately, sadly flailing torches and forks doesn't really bring any progress, same goes for "do something, just anything!"-polls

"listen to me, retard" isn't really a way to get somebody to think about your ideas, in fact quite the contrary

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"I'm not an asshole, everybody else is just too whiny and should just man up!"

that's some Jarlek mentality right there

Well, to be honest.

If I was an xbower, like you, and my class was getting buffed patch after patch, id probably say the same shit.


I mean by now u should know this community. If u make them a little mad once they hate u a lifetime

Yeah, because I always cared about getting hated from fat nerds all over the globe.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gnjus on February 06, 2018, 02:47:00 pm
Insulting all of them is a interresting, yet probably not the best, way to become influencial on ur own.

Neither is opening threads as a 14-years-old battle-hardened veteran with expert leadership skills trying to explain to them how their weekly map rotation sucks and yet......
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 06, 2018, 02:47:23 pm
Neither is opening threads as a 14-years-old battle-hardened veteran with expert leadership skills trying to explain to them how their weekly map rotation sucks and yet......


SAVAGE
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Ikarus on February 06, 2018, 02:49:09 pm
Quote
If I was an xbower, like you, and my class was getting buffed patch after patch, id probably say the same shit.

I`ve been playing a lot of lance cav lately and actively supporting xbow nerfs because range has been an obvious problem for a while now  :?
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 06, 2018, 02:53:14 pm
I`ve been playing a lot of lance cav lately and actively supporting xbow nerfs because range has been an obvious problem for a while now  :?

Ok, my apologies then.


Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: BlackxBird on February 06, 2018, 03:31:39 pm
Neither is opening threads as a 14-years-old battle-hardened veteran with expert leadership skills trying to explain to them how their weekly map rotation sucks and yet......

I lead around 400 clanwars and 100 strat battles.  And good that u totally understood my point. I wasn't saying that it is the players who decide what the mod is like (and it was not 100 percently directed to players), it is the map rotation, ranged classes overall being sooo op, the devs, the balancer, especially NA and the cookiemonster.

And sorry for Athelar missunderstanding me but I'm a direct person and it is pretty obvious that he failed. Not saying that he didn't try hard (or that he should stop! Everything can be fixed...). But at the point I made my post the map rotation was totally screwed up. All these maps that have been thrown out ages ago for good reasons were brought back. Im not at all saying that the map rotation is the reason for the amount of ranged. They were there before. On most maps right now they are simply stronger than they were before.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: njames89 on February 06, 2018, 03:38:41 pm
I lead around 400 clanwars and 100 strat battles.

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Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gnjus on February 06, 2018, 03:49:56 pm
I lead around 400 clanwars and 100 strat battles

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Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: XyNox on February 06, 2018, 04:38:09 pm
How exactly do you think this works Panson :D ? You think you join as a balancer, shout "we shall nerf x y z" and one day later everything is implemented ? xD

People have different opinions, people have different amounts of time on their hand , people are online during different times of day ( real life and such - NA/EU timezones - work ). Some balance suggestions might sound good but may not appear technically possible. So then we have to wait for somebody with the necessary coding abilities to look into the matter, whereas those people are already occupied fixing bugs ( in their freetime ... they are not getting paid for this mind you ) most of the time. Tons of time is required to write down everybodies opinion, verifying this by dozens ingame tests, documenting these in presentable form, do some calculations whether your proposed thats/changes would still hold merit when applied in more than just the initial situation that spawned the idea, while keeping in mind armour soak armour reduction armour pen limb mod and 10 other formulas that work on top of native formulas which cannot even be changed since they are hardcoded.

I am not even saying you wouldnt do honest work as a balancer but I could very well imagine you quitting after a few days again because the amount of stuff you have to put up with and the tempo of which you see your work paying off is way too slow.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Butan on February 06, 2018, 04:47:53 pm
How exactly do you think this works Panson :D ? You think you join as a balancer, shout "we shall nerf x y z" and one day later everything is implemented ? xD

People have different opinions, people have different amounts of time on their hand , people are online during different times of day ( real life and such - NA/EU timezones - work ). Some balance suggestions might sound good but may not appear technically possible. So then we have to wait for somebody with the necessary coding abilities to look into the matter, whereas those people are already occupied fixing bugs ( in their freetime ... they are not getting paid for this mind you ) most of the time. Tons of time is required to write down everybodies opinion, verifying this by dozens ingame tests, documenting these in presentable form, do some calculations whether your proposed thats/changes would still hold merit when applied in more than just the initial situation that spawned the idea, while keeping in mind armour soak armour reduction armour pen limb mod and 10 other formulas that work on top of native formulas which cannot even be changed since they are hardcoded.

I am not even saying you wouldnt do honest work as a balancer but I could very well imagine you quitting after a few days again because the amount of stuff you have to put up with and the tempo of which you see your work paying off is way too slow.

Not to add that a good chemistry within the team is important. You dont just let "new guys" (even if you have 100 000 hours in cRPG) with big ego get into an important position or even a minor one with full power.
A completely new team means that you sack everyone actually on board btw? lol.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Zeus_ on February 06, 2018, 05:06:00 pm
What about the builds in each class?

3 build types for melee (str crutch, agi whore, and the superior balanced build) - 9 balancers

2 types for archery - 2 balancers

2 types for crossbow - 2 balancers

HA - 1 balancer

2 types for cav (lancer and 2h/pole cav) - 2 balancers

2 builds for thrower (agi throwers who just runaway when the going gets tough, and the real me who stay and fight) - 2 balancers

In total, 18 new balancers
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_ on February 06, 2018, 05:46:32 pm
How exactly do you think this works Panson :D ? You think you join as a balancer, shout "we shall nerf x y z" and one day later everything is implemented ? xD

People have different opinions, people have different amounts of time on their hand , people are online during different times of day ( real life and such - NA/EU timezones - work ). Some balance suggestions might sound good but may not appear technically possible. So then we have to wait for somebody with the necessary coding abilities to look into the matter, whereas those people are already occupied fixing bugs ( in their freetime ... they are not getting paid for this mind you ) most of the time. Tons of time is required to write down everybodies opinion, verifying this by dozens ingame tests, documenting these in presentable form, do some calculations whether your proposed thats/changes would still hold merit when applied in more than just the initial situation that spawned the idea, while keeping in mind armour soak armour reduction armour pen limb mod and 10 other formulas that work on top of native formulas which cannot even be changed since they are hardcoded.

I am not even saying you wouldnt do honest work as a balancer but I could very well imagine you quitting after a few days again because the amount of stuff you have to put up with and the tempo of which you see your work paying off is way too slow.



Really?

Do you wanna know some of my ideas that arent that hard to agree and get implemented on the mod to counter the ranged retardation?


1. Crossbows require POWER DRAW aswell! Its the only ranged class that has no skill points penalty, thats why you see shielders that have crossbows. Have you seen any archer shielders? Exactly.

2. Angle fucking restriction to the god damned horse archers


Ta da, with 2 quick ideas that came in mind, you can make a huge change, with no more than 10~ lines of coding.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Paul on February 06, 2018, 06:06:42 pm
You're a coder as well? Magnificent. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_shot)

Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: XyNox on February 06, 2018, 06:10:35 pm


Really?

Do you wanna know some of my ideas that arent that hard to agree and get implemented on the mod to counter the ranged retardation?


1. Crossbows require POWER DRAW aswell! Its the only ranged class that has no skill points penalty, thats why you see shielders that have crossbows. Have you seen any archer shielders? Exactly.

2. Angle fucking restriction to the god damned horse archers


Ta da, with 2 quick ideas that came in mind, you can make a huge change, with no more than 10~ lines of coding.

gieb code pls :D
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Jona on February 06, 2018, 06:29:31 pm
What about the builds in each class?

3 build types for melee (str crutch, agi whore, and the superior balanced build) - 9 balancers

2 types for archery - 2 balancers

2 types for crossbow - 2 balancers

HA - 1 balancer

2 types for cav (lancer and 2h/pole cav) - 2 balancers

2 builds for thrower (agi throwers who just runaway when the going gets tough, and the real me who stay and fight) - 2 balancers

In total, 18 new balancers

But why stop there? We could instead have representatives for 36-3, 33-6, 30-9, 27-12, 24-15, 21-18, 18-21, 15-24, 12-27, 9-30, 6-33, and 3-36, for each melee and ranged class. Considering certain hybrid builds can be regarded as completely separate, i.e. shielders/hoplites compared to swashbucklers/polearms, we'd require more players to balance than we have. All hands on deck, everyone's a balancer now!
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gandalf77 on February 06, 2018, 07:12:12 pm
We need DaveUKR as balancer thats sure
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Grumbs on February 06, 2018, 07:16:20 pm
I think the current balance team have been pretty open to suggestions regarding ranged compared to previous years. I know they don't necessarily agree with what people suggest, but they at least seem to listen and have some kind of dialogue with the players. Just getting some slot increases for xbows was pretty significant imo. So I don't think its fair to just try to get them sacked when we don't even have anyone else that has put themselves forward. I do think there is always going to be some kind of conflict of interest though, even if its subconsious or whatever. If people only really favour one type of gameplay on the balance team its not going to be a balanced team

RD_Professor should probably start a thread asking for some candidates for balancing. Then let people decide with + / - for who should be let on the team. People just need a good reason to play melee. Buffs to polestab would be nice (I don't even mind the turn rate but I know other people don't like it, but that stab feels pretty underpowered imo). I would nerf ranged into the ground just to make people switch class, but I'm never going to be a balancer :D
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: kasMVC on February 06, 2018, 07:20:14 pm
buff shield speed
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 06, 2018, 07:20:59 pm
I think current dev team is doing fine, they were left with a highly altered and downward declining mod as a start, they can only tweak and test at their own pace to improve things. While i would maybe also like some drastic changes to be implemented, blaming current balance team for the situation they were left with isnt really fair, nor is expecting to replace them without any sort of competence.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: McKli_PL on February 06, 2018, 07:37:28 pm
We could instead have representatives for 36-3, 33-6, 30-9, 27-12, 24-15, 21-18, 18-21, 15-24, 12-27, 9-30, 6-33, and 3-36, for each melee and ranged class.
Hello :!:  :lol:
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Athelar on February 06, 2018, 08:04:55 pm
And sorry for Athelar missunderstanding me but I'm a direct person and it is pretty obvious that he failed. Not saying that he didn't try hard (or that he should stop! Everything can be fixed...). But at the point I made my post the map rotation was totally screwed up. All these maps that have been thrown out ages ago for good reasons were brought back. Im not at all saying that the map rotation is the reason for the amount of ranged. They were there before. On most maps right now they are simply stronger than they were before.

I think I understand perfectly fine what you mean.  :lol: You started implying that it was my fault ranged were like it is now, then when you got confronted by people saying it wasn't my fault but the players and the volume of them, you suddenly changed your mind. Now you're back to saying it's my fault.  :rolleyes: The map rotation hasn't changed since you made your thread, so I don't know what you're trying to say. Professor still needs to be done with his exams before I can do weekly updates on the map rotation. The map rotation still got an issue that creates random plains (mostly fixed though). This is because the names in the admin panel doesn't always correspond to the scn name. It's seeing those maps and replacing them with random plains when it doesn't recognize them.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Ikarus on February 06, 2018, 08:10:45 pm
Quote
This is because the names in the admin panel doesn't always correspond to the scn name. It's seeing those maps and replacing them with random plains when it doesn't recognize them.

Aaah that's why, I've already been thinking that this might be the case  :idea:
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Yeldur on February 06, 2018, 08:26:30 pm
Yay or nay?

The majority of the players are unhappy, server population steadily goes down, eu1 is infested with cunts like Zero_Sat, who I have to admit is a pretty good HA, but also a cunt.

So, I am opening a poll, to decide for a new balancers team.


Archer, xbower, Cavalry, 2hander, Shielder, polearmer, thrower.

7 classes, 7 NEW balancers, 1 from each class.

Discuss and vote nerds, because seriously, I am sick and tired of those NA fucks fucking up my beloved crpg.
I don't think Zero is actually a problem, sure, he plays an annoying class but he's one of the few who are actually good at the class. HA isn't the best class out there by miles and he's pulling it off even with that backstep. What IS a problem, is the VOLUME of ranged on the server, they seriously need to be dealt with, what assington said is a good idea, maximum 15% of the server can be ranged at any one time. Or: Reset gold completely and set costs of maintenance on all ranged weapons to ridiculous levels
Or: Nerf ranged to stop everyone piling on top of it.

What about the builds in each class?

3 build types for melee (str crutch, agi whore, and the superior balanced build) - 9 balancers

2 types for archery - 2 balancers

2 types for crossbow - 2 balancers

HA - 1 balancer

2 types for cav (lancer and 2h/pole cav) - 2 balancers

2 builds for thrower (agi throwers who just runaway when the going gets tough, and the real me who stay and fight) - 2 balancers

In total, 18 new balancers
This is actually an interesting concept, with some alterations it could work really well.
Too many balancers mean that things will take too long as obviously there are timezone/working restrictions out there throughout NA and EU as XynoX said, a team of 9 overall would be a good idea, and we could pick the "heads" of those classes per se, for instance (THIS IS AN EXAMPLE) - We add DaveUKR as balancer for crossbow, he plays the class a lot and has shown he's not bias toward xbows, he would be a good idea for a balancer because he plays the class almost exclusively, whoopeee!

We add Rest_In_Peace as a 2h balancer, so that he can manage the 2h side of things as he plays that class a lot.

Those are just examples but something like that could work really well. Right now things clearly are not working.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Blackbow on February 06, 2018, 09:17:29 pm
make me balancer of item balancers and i will make it rule ez !

- first thing i will do is fire nightingale because he's just good at keeping his class over powered since too many years
- second is kick xynox's ass because this lazy bastard dont bring back agi archery!! (nah rly get ride of str shit made by tydeus) and probably cap archery dmg to make it easier to balance, and if u wana keep str shit builds i would love to add the wpf bonus u have on melee skills to archery also.
- third is getting some smart ppl who play everyday on eu coz the real meta is on eu servers !!!
- fourth i will nerf camels to 150 hp
- fifth i will increase force field size on shields and not increase their speed like they did just before wich i found stupid...one hand spam was already stronk
- sixth i will roll a joint!
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Davic on February 06, 2018, 09:23:41 pm
What about the builds in each class?

3 build types for melee (str crutch, agi whore, and the superior balanced build) - 9 balancers

2 types for archery - 2 balancers

2 types for crossbow - 2 balancers

HA - 1 balancer

2 types for cav (lancer and 2h/pole cav) - 2 balancers

2 builds for thrower (agi throwers who just runaway when the going gets tough, and the real me who stay and fight) - 2 balancers

In total, 18 new balancers

oh dang, they are gonna have to recruit from EU then since NA doesn't even have 18 active players  :P
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: RD_Professor on February 06, 2018, 09:26:39 pm
Yay or nay?

The majority of the players are unhappy, server population steadily goes down, eu1 is infested with cunts like Zero_Sat, who I have to admit is a pretty good HA, but also a cunt.

So, I am opening a poll, to decide for a new balancers team.


Archer, xbower, Cavalry, 2hander, Shielder, polearmer, thrower.

7 classes, 7 NEW balancers, 1 from each class.

Discuss and vote nerds, because seriously, I am sick and tired of those NA fucks fucking up my beloved crpg.
let's have 7 balancers from NA too. and from AU. and from CN. you know what, we should just have the entire crpg community vote on all balance changes. things are always more efficient with more people.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 06, 2018, 09:39:19 pm
you know what, we should just have the entire crpg community vote on all balance changes. things are always more efficient with more people.

Isnt that what we've basically already had?
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: XyNox on February 06, 2018, 11:16:02 pm
- second is kick xynox's ass because this lazy bastard dont bring back agi archery!! (nah rly get ride of str shit made by tydeus) and probably cap archery dmg to make it easier to balance, and if u wana keep str

Ey, its not like I have supreme authority what happens to archery :D although I should

I wrote like 6000 20000 words worth of essays around this topic already but I am not the one who makes the call.

And actually, I would look forward to have balancers more or less per class. A lot of problems and issues we have currently that slows down progress would probably be settled that way.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Corsair831 on February 07, 2018, 12:22:37 am
Yay or nay?

The majority of the players are unhappy, server population steadily goes down, eu1 is infested with cunts like Zero_Sat, who I have to admit is a pretty good HA, but also a cunt.

So, I am opening a poll, to decide for a new balancers team.


Archer, xbower, Cavalry, 2hander, Shielder, polearmer, thrower.

7 classes, 7 NEW balancers, 1 from each class.

Discuss and vote nerds, because seriously, I am sick and tired of those NA fucks fucking up my beloved crpg.

This is cRPG, the majority of players are always unhappy. Current game balance is absolutely fine

I'm convinced 90% of the whiners on cRPG won't be happy until;

 - Enemy arrows actively heal them,
 - They can throw their 2h sword like Darth Vader,
 - They can cut through enemy shields in one hit,
 - Which also heals them

I don't know how many times i would have to say this, but, taking no shield, on a medieval fighting game, is just silly. Balance should be that you should be carrying a shield. In real life history, 90%+ of melee infantry carried shields for this very reason

How powerful unshielded 2h heroes are already compared to how they should be is just insane. I've actually seen people several times complaining in chat whilst alive about things like "i've already been shot in the head 2 times this round!". I mean, really. Complaining about surviving 2 headshots. Really?

------------------------------------

TL;DR, stop whining about ranged and l2p, balance is fine
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: darmaster on February 07, 2018, 12:30:41 am
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Kadeth on February 07, 2018, 01:33:09 am
In real life history, 90%+ of melee infantry carried shields for this very reason

Well, gee wizz, if it happened in Real Life History it MUST be replicated in cRPG - it's a very realistic game, after all.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Sparvico on February 07, 2018, 03:33:00 am
Don't forget to remove chambers also. Total luck based mechanic.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: njames89 on February 07, 2018, 03:42:37 am
We need to remove reverse chambering that is the real scourge of cRPG
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 07, 2018, 04:49:04 am
Well, gee wizz, if it happened in Real Life History it MUST be replicated in cRPG - it's a very realistic game, after all.

How do you balance a ranged vs melee character? I mean its not even based in realism, its just the fact of the matter is one character shoots from afar and the other hits up close. I guess we could look towards other games with this concept, overwatch genji can parry bullets maybe thats something to go for? Or maybe give melee a dash ability? Stealth? How do you balance ranged vs melee as a concept without a shield, well, except for just simply removing their damage till the point where they really have no purpose.

I'd be for implementing lightsabers and force jump straight out of bearforce 2, it would solve a lot but even in there there was complaints about getting shot as a jedi. But at least combat was fast and fun there.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Nightingale on February 07, 2018, 05:23:51 am
Xbow has received massive nerfs since this balance team started implementing changes more nerfed than its ever been. Yet the delusional among you still, unsurprisingly, think I'm buffing my class. Truly hilarious EU players never fail to entertain.

Instead of being appreciative that we actively chat with players take their suggestions and ideas and implement them if possible. It's exactly what I did. Now you are saying we need to add Dave to the Item team. That makes 3 xbowmen Item balancers? Practically 100% of Dave's suggestions were added into the recent xbow patch except for the accuracy buff on arbalest. Now if he wants to help out he can most certainly message me and I'll chat with him about xbows further I have no problem with doing so but pretending I don't listen to feedback is insane.

It's been our agenda to fix agility archery since day 1. We have reached some impassible discussions our varying opinions on the philosophy of accuracy and rng factors in ranged gameplay its still being discussed and its still going nowhere. Balancing isn't just implementing and definitely don't expect anyone thank you for your time either. Most will just whine and accuse you of buffing your class while you have very clearly nerfed it. Unfortunately, those people that claim buff are just too ignorant. Yet request an invitation to join the item balancing team as if they are some expert. Everyone seemingly knows everything and no one else does. That is all of your opinions summed up in one sentence and it is incredibly idiotic.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Butan on February 07, 2018, 07:33:28 am
We need to remove reverse chambering that is the real scourge of cRPG

dont forget reverse fist chambering
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gandalf77 on February 07, 2018, 04:51:44 pm
Xbow has received massive nerfs since this balance team started implementing changes more nerfed than its ever been. Yet the delusional among you still, unsurprisingly, think I'm buffing my class. Truly hilarious EU players never fail to entertain.

Instead of being appreciative that we actively chat with players take their suggestions and ideas and implement them if possible. It's exactly what I did. Now you are saying we need to add Dave to the Item team. That makes 3 xbowmen Item balancers? Practically 100% of Dave's suggestions were added into the recent xbow patch except for the accuracy buff on arbalest. Now if he wants to help out he can most certainly message me and I'll chat with him about xbows further I have no problem with doing so but pretending I don't listen to feedback is insane.

It's been our agenda to fix agility archery since day 1. We have reached some impassible discussions our varying opinions on the philosophy of accuracy and rng factors in ranged gameplay its still being discussed and its still going nowhere. Balancing isn't just implementing and definitely don't expect anyone thank you for your time either. Most will just whine and accuse you of buffing your class while you have very clearly nerfed it. Unfortunately, those people that claim buff are just too ignorant. Yet request an invitation to join the item balancing team as if they are some expert. Everyone seemingly knows everything and no one else does. That is all of your opinions summed up in one sentence and it is incredibly idiotic.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MASSIVE NERFS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA
yea xbows now cant kill guy with 40 armor to the body with one shoot like 1 month ago but still they do to 35 armor, thats a massive nerf yea.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Ikarus on February 07, 2018, 05:07:50 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MASSIVE NERFS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA
yea xbows now cant kill guy with 40 armor to the body with one shoot like 1 month ago but still they do to 35 armor, thats a massive nerf yea.

it's the biggest nerf xbow ever had so far so he's not wrong yo

imo it still needs a bit more str requirement and then balancers are fine to tackle other classes
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Butan on February 07, 2018, 05:10:31 pm
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MASSIVE NERFS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA
yea xbows now cant kill guy with 40 armor to the body with one shoot like 1 month ago but still they do to 35 armor, thats a massive nerf yea.

You probably dont play xbow.
It is a massive nerf to them.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gandalf77 on February 07, 2018, 06:51:07 pm
You probably dont play xbow.
It is a massive nerf to them.

I played that shit a bit, its ez as fuck. Its the easiest shit I ever played right after thrower
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Corsair831 on February 07, 2018, 08:46:54 pm
I played that shit a bit, its ez as fuck. Its the easiest shit I ever played right after thrower

Throwing's absolutely awful in cRPG o.O
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gandalf77 on February 07, 2018, 08:53:38 pm
Throwing's absolutely awful in cRPG o.O

you just get 155 wpf, throwing lances(6 hidden in your pants), daggers(24 on your dick) and stay behind the players who fight and aim for heads = easy kills, if you miss you run around and pick all stuff back and repeat. Tutorial for thrower, you are welcome
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Nightingale on February 08, 2018, 05:24:55 am
@Gandalf if you think you should be invulnerable to range damage at 35 body armor something is wrong with you and you are disgracing EU by representing them.


Changes I'm responsible for for the xbows since a couple of years back.
Increase in strength requirement to 16 and 13.
Decrease in steel bolt count from 13 to 7
Decrease in bolt count from 17 to 10
Increase slot requirement on xbows. to 3 and then later to 4 for arb
Decrease in slot requirement on ammo (obvious reasons for this change *look at above change if ur retarded*)
Decrease in Accuracy.
A decrease in available side arms.
(click to show/hide)
Increase in cost and upkeep.
Decrease in strength requirement from 16 to 15 and 13 to 12.

so yes - "hahahahaha" I nerfed the hell out of xbow you fucking inbred.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Kadeth on February 08, 2018, 05:31:47 am
How do you balance a ranged vs melee character?

1v1? lol. In battle? By not having 80% of ranged on the same team. It happens way too often, even the ranged players are saying it themselves. 0 wpf xbow needs to be fixed too, but that's actually a nerf to melee players.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 08, 2018, 08:30:49 am
@Gandalf if you think you should be invulnerable to range damage at 35 body armor something is wrong with you and you are disgracing EU by representing them.


Changes I'm responsible for for the xbows since a couple of years back.
Increase in strength requirement to 16 and 13.
Decrease in steel bolt count from 13 to 7
Decrease in bolt count from 17 to 10
Increase slot requirement on xbows. to 3 and then later to 4 for arb
Decrease in slot requirement on ammo (obvious reasons for this change *look at above change if ur retarded*)
Decrease in Accuracy.
A decrease in available side arms.
(click to show/hide)
Increase in cost and upkeep.
Decrease in strength requirement from 16 to 15 and 13 to 12.

so yes - "hahahahaha" I nerfed the hell out of xbow you fucking inbred.


My friend, all those nerfs were and are still useless, what you and the previous balancers team, failed to realise, PAY ATTENTION NOW.



BOWS AND CROSSBOWS, ARENT OVERPOWERED, QUITTE THE OPPOSITE, IF I WAS IN BALANCERS TEAM, I WOULD SUGGEST A BUFF TO THEIR STATS.

THE PROBLEM IS, THEIR NUMBERS.

THEIR.
NUMBERS.

3 ARCHERS ON ONE TEAM OF 20~ PEOPLE, IS OK.

10 ARCHERS ON A TEAM OF 20 PEOPLE, IS NOT OK.


HENCE MY REQUEST OF RANGED CAP.



So, my dear neckbearded friend, instead of hurling insults , see the goddamn forest, not the tree.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Paul on February 08, 2018, 08:45:28 am
So how do you make a ranged cap?

A slot system, where there is like 20% cap per team on bow/xbow ranged? If you come too late, you can still spawn but without your ranged equip. Same for cav, latecomers spawn without mounts. We will probably have some crusaders then, while being inf melee "jamming" slots with donkeys and crap launchers for the lulz. How will it work with banner balance or auto-balance in general? Is there a better way than assigning slots by "first come first served"?
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Kadeth on February 08, 2018, 09:55:33 am
So how do you make a ranged cap?

A slot system, where there is like 20% cap per team on bow/xbow ranged? If you come too late, you can still spawn but without your ranged equip. Same for cav, latecomers spawn without mounts. We will probably have some crusaders then, while being inf melee "jamming" slots with donkeys and crap launchers for the lulz. How will it work with banner balance or auto-balance in general? Is there a better way than assigning slots by "first come first served"?

don't worry about it paul - a better man is doing your job now, your ideas are redundant and you can retire
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Corsair831 on February 08, 2018, 10:56:42 am

My friend, all those nerfs were and are still useless, what you and the previous balancers team, failed to realise, PAY ATTENTION NOW.



BOWS AND CROSSBOWS, ARENT OVERPOWERED, QUITTE THE OPPOSITE, IF I WAS IN BALANCERS TEAM, I WOULD SUGGEST A BUFF TO THEIR STATS.

THE PROBLEM IS, THEIR NUMBERS.

THEIR.
NUMBERS.

3 ARCHERS ON ONE TEAM OF 20~ PEOPLE, IS OK.

10 ARCHERS ON A TEAM OF 20 PEOPLE, IS NOT OK.


HENCE MY REQUEST OF RANGED CAP.



So, my dear neckbearded friend, instead of hurling insults , see the goddamn forest, not the tree.

10 competent shielders beats 10 competent archers
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Nightingale on February 08, 2018, 11:06:38 am
I wasn't talking to you Panos. I don't classify you as delusional.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 08, 2018, 11:10:07 am
So how do you make a ranged cap?

A slot system, where there is like 20% cap per team on bow/xbow ranged? If you come too late, you can still spawn but without your ranged equip. Same for cav, latecomers spawn without mounts. We will probably have some crusaders then, while being inf melee "jamming" slots with donkeys and crap launchers for the lulz. How will it work with banner balance or auto-balance in general? Is there a better way than assigning slots by "first come first served"?

Native has already a built in cap system, why not use the same?

2 ranged per 10 people is more than enough i think.



I wasn't talking to you Panos. I don't classify you as delusional.

My apologies then!


10 competent shielders beats 10 competent archers

So, thats your solution to the problem? Everyone should respec to shielders so a bunch of robin hood/legolas wannabes can have their "fun"?

And dont speak about the 0 shield skill shields, because they are shit, you saw it yourself last night, even though I was "protecting" myself, I still got shot.


So yeah, IMO a ranged cap is a must, or sooner or later c-rpg will be dead again, wether you like it or not.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Panos_Tournament on February 08, 2018, 11:10:55 am
don't worry about it paul - a better man is doing your job now, your ideas are redundant and you can retire

Stfu cunt, Paul has given some great features to the mod.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: BlackxBird on February 08, 2018, 11:15:48 am
10 competent shielders beats 10 competent archers

No they don‘t. If the archers play it well and the map is halfways open the archers will win 10/10 rounds. The shielders have to spread out to kill the archers. And when a archer gets attacked he can just skey and block. The only way for the shielders to win is by flag.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Casul on February 08, 2018, 11:17:20 am
Stfu cunt, Paul has given some great features to the mod.

I think it was sarcasm
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Nightingale on February 08, 2018, 11:20:59 am
besides Panos I have already stated several times range itself is not OP. That our goal is to fix auto balancer. Hopefully, fix this soon.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Butan on February 08, 2018, 12:06:18 pm
Capped classes in cRPG would be a short term solution to a short term problem.
Freedom to play whatever class you want, and create a customised character around it, IS cRPG.

Whether it creates problems or not isnt important, remove that and you remove much more of the game than you would be trying to fix.
And yes, forcing people to play a class they dont want to play is a terrible idea too. Archers, throwers, cavalrymen, everyone deserves to play the game whenever they want to.


The quantity of ranged can be 0% or 100% on a server, as long as its balanced between the two opposing team, its all good. Same for all classes.
The meta is what the players decides it to be.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gurnisson on February 08, 2018, 12:20:26 pm
Capped classes in cRPG would be a short term solution to a short term problem.
Freedom to play whatever class you want, and create a customised character around it, IS cRPG.

Whether it creates problems or not isnt important, remove that and you remove much more of the game than you would be trying to fix.
And yes, forcing people to play a class they dont want to play is a terrible idea too. Archers, throwers, cavalrymen, everyone deserves to play the game whenever they want to.
The quantity of ranged can be 0% or 100% on a server, as long as its balanced between the two opposing team, its all good.

Completely agree

Giving more incentives to play infantry could help though
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 08, 2018, 12:32:57 pm
Native has already a built in cap system, why not use the same?

2 ranged per 10 people is more than enough i think.


Yes but how do you implement the class system into crpg where anyone could hybrid for anything, and have a set build on their character? Do you still select a class like native? Sounds like it would require some coding to somehow decide what person would be forced to select the archer class. Maybe its just 10 lines of code though...

1v1? lol. In battle? By not having 80% of ranged on the same team. It happens way too often, even the ranged players are saying it themselves. 0 wpf xbow needs to be fixed too, but that's actually a nerf to melee players.

As long as there is ranged there will be melee crying. Their numbers matter sure, but the nature of the class will always end up making people complain no matter how many they are. Unless adapted to and played around, game evolving a meta to defeat them aka shields at the very minimum. It will be borderline impossible to satisfy someone unwilling to even carry a shield when it comes to the concept of fighting someone that takes you down at range.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Finse on February 08, 2018, 01:14:46 pm
Just saying, Rider aka Gandalf77 isnt representing EU in anyway, wouldnt be fair towards any EU member lol
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Rico on February 08, 2018, 01:32:37 pm
What if the community found out about the 11%? :oops:
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Corsair831 on February 08, 2018, 02:27:39 pm
Native has already a built in cap system, why not use the same?

2 ranged per 10 people is more than enough i think.



My apologies then!


So, thats your solution to the problem? Everyone should respec to shielders so a bunch of robin hood/legolas wannabes can have their "fun"?

And dont speak about the 0 shield skill shields, because they are shit, you saw it yourself last night, even though I was "protecting" myself, I still got shot.


So yeah, IMO a ranged cap is a must, or sooner or later c-rpg will be dead again, wether you like it or not.

Hmm, i don't think everyone should respec shielders no, but i think unshielded melee infantry should definitely be in the minority

No they don‘t. If the archers play it well and the map is halfways open the archers will win 10/10 rounds. The shielders have to spread out to kill the archers. And when a archer gets attacked he can just skey and block. The only way for the shielders to win is by flag.

I said competent shielders against competent archers. As you said, the shielders spread out to kill the archers. Infantry should all be carrying either a spear or throwing weapons. They should also move faster than archers. If an archer beats an infantry in melee, that infantry just isn't very good.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Bugnir on February 08, 2018, 03:08:16 pm
Implementing restrictions would be a suboptimal solution to the ranged problem and instead we should try and incentivice ranged players to pick a different class.
Making the flags spawn after 10-30 seconds or make them spawn immidiately might be a good way to curb the power of mass ranged as a team with 10 ranged out of 20 would simply lose out to flag capping if all the archers did was staying at a distance. Infantry which would normally protect their 10 archer buddies would have to prioritze flags which would make the archers vulnerable to cav or backstabbers and since the team lacks non-archer classes as a whole, it would be harder to successfully contest flags.
As mass archer teams would constantly lose it is my hope that some players might reassess their choice of class and perhaps pick something else decreasing the number of ranged to a few dedicated ones.

Get a shield

Yeah fuck off already shields don't do jack shit. If you are chasing one or two ranged it is handy but once there are 3 ranged shooting at you from different angles the shield starts to lose its value, not to mention that shields lose their effectiveness in melee combat aswell. Btw to everyone who says something in the line of "10 shielders beat 10 archers" that is not only debateable but it is also not taking into account the fodder classes. It will not be '10 shielders vs 10 archers' but rather '10 shielders and 10 fodder vs 10 archers and 10 fodder', and in this scenario the archers simply kill the fodder of team shielder, then the shielders have to fight the archer team's fodder while taking heavy fire and if they win that engagement they will be heavily depleted and unable to chase the remaining archers.

I constantly see people suggest player cooperation, "teamplay" is the word I see the most, to beat mass ranged which I frankly find funny because they don't consider what 'teamplay' actually entails.

The best way for you to beat ranged spam on most maps would be to hide whilst waiting for flags. Ranged players obviously won't see a problem with this because while waiting they can still shoot and play their class. Do you know what melee players get to do? They get to do absolutely jack shit for 2-3minutes.

Wouldn't a shieldwall counter this?

It might be easy to do a stationary shieldwall with a couple of players but try moving that shieldwall, even on strat battles where you have some autist frantically shouting orders at you the shieldwall rarely stays in perfect formation if it has to move. Archers will spread out and shoot your flanks anyways so the shieldwall will be nullified after a while. A shieldwall is not a testudo, it's useful in the beginning when all archers are concentrated on one spot but as soon as they spread out you will get shot.

My routine on EU1 usally goes as following: I get into the shield wall, raise my shield, press T and tab out to browse hentai. If I stay tabbed for too long I will find myself dead once I tab back because Zero_Sat snuck behind our lines as camel archer and headshotted me twice, so usually I will simply have to do with some hot cRPG bitches like Pony_Princess, Xesta or Cassi. If none of them are on the server I'll zoom in on a female cav player and pretend it is a low-res centaur girl from some 90s eroge.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 08, 2018, 03:32:41 pm
Shieldwalls are terrible cause you dont ever actually want to get shot, but if you do get shot at you want the shield to absorb it. I do like the incentive of flags, and i definitely agree battle could be more objective based from the get go rather than as a solution to ranged/cav delay.

Oh and get a shield isnt a definite win against any odds. 10 ranged 10 fodder vs 10 shields 10 fodder isnt necessarily such a simple outcome, the fodder combined with shielders could easily take out opposing infantry just by sheer numbers and then either hunt down ranged or cap flags. Ranged (unless spectacularly good) dont usually impact a clash enough to leave a window of ~10 melee less (though assuming some would die on the path still makes it a large difference) victorious. Ranged over longer periods of fighting scattered will however take down people slow and steady which makes them viable, but that is all assuming one side uses strategy rather than zerg rush.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gandalf77 on February 08, 2018, 04:09:40 pm
@Gandalf if you think you should be invulnerable to range damage at 35 body armor something is wrong with you and you are disgracing EU by representing them.


Changes I'm responsible for for the xbows since a couple of years back.
Increase in strength requirement to 16 and 13.
Decrease in steel bolt count from 13 to 7
Decrease in bolt count from 17 to 10
Increase slot requirement on xbows. to 3 and then later to 4 for arb
Decrease in slot requirement on ammo (obvious reasons for this change *look at above change if ur retarded*)
Decrease in Accuracy.
A decrease in available side arms.
(click to show/hide)
Increase in cost and upkeep.
Decrease in strength requirement from 16 to 15 and 13 to 12.

so yes - "hahahahaha" I nerfed the hell out of xbow you fucking inbred.


I dont expect to be invulnerable, I just would want to use low armor without getting 1 hit by random shoot to the body.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Jona on February 08, 2018, 05:18:22 pm
Stfu cunt, Paul has given some great features to the mod.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login




Gotta defend mah fave aussie's honor while he's sleeping.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Kadeth on February 08, 2018, 11:36:27 pm
As long as there is ranged there will be melee crying. Their numbers matter sure, but the nature of the class will always end up making people complain no matter how many they are. Unless adapted to and played around, game evolving a meta to defeat them aka shields at the very minimum. It will be borderline impossible to satisfy someone unwilling to even carry a shield when it comes to the concept of fighting someone that takes you down at range.

There's always going to be crying from all classes, but I think it's undeniable that the number of ranged players has skyrocketed recently, why should we put them all on the same team if it can be avoided? Carrying a shield is fine, but everyone throwing points into shield will have other effects on the group fighting meta too - 2h and polearm heroes being viable is something that sets cRPG apart from native, but they just get destroyed with the regular class imbalance we're seeing lately.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 09, 2018, 12:40:45 am
There's always going to be crying from all classes, but I think it's undeniable that the number of ranged players has skyrocketed recently, why should we put them all on the same team if it can be avoided? Carrying a shield is fine, but everyone throwing points into shield will have other effects on the group fighting meta too - 2h and polearm heroes being viable is something that sets cRPG apart from native, but they just get destroyed with the regular class imbalance we're seeing lately.

Oh i never said ranged should all be stacked on a team. I do like a well sorted teambalance.
And yeah, the meta has to adapt. Duel builds are still incredibly deadly, and still viable. It just doesnt make any sense for someone with a duel build to complain about getting shot when he is undeniably stronger in melee than most others that decided to build around ranged. I still see heroes top the scoreboard far more frequently than any other class (except cav). The balance team is even leaning towards them a lot by trying to make lower tier shields more viable, so heroes have everything going for them except that they do get shot more than others.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Yeldur on February 09, 2018, 01:14:06 am
My routine on EU1 usally goes as following: I get into the shield wall, raise my shield, press T and tab out to browse hentai. If I stay tabbed for too long I will find myself dead once I tab back because Zero_Sat snuck behind our lines as camel archer and headshotted me twice, so usually I will simply have to do with some hot cRPG bitches like Pony_Princess, Xesta or Cassi. If none of them are on the server I'll zoom in on a female cav player and pretend it is a low-res centaur girl from some 90s eroge.
Top fucking kek, thank you for that new signature, 10/10.


Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Grumbs on February 10, 2018, 10:13:28 am
Did the thread need to get hidden here? People were posting pretty fairly and look at the poll results. I don't like the wording of the poll (so I chose the third option - try to find extra balancers in addition to the ones we have). Moving it suggests you don't want a discussion.

I'm reporting this thread to the European Court of Human Rights
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: RD_Professor on February 10, 2018, 11:42:36 pm
as everyone knows my will is entirely decided by majority decision. i don't think for myself.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on February 11, 2018, 07:36:56 am
Did the thread need to get hidden here? People were posting pretty fairly and look at the poll results. I don't like the wording of the poll (so I chose the third option - try to find extra balancers in addition to the ones we have). Moving it suggests you don't want a discussion.

I'm reporting this thread to the European Court of Human Rights

How is it hidden here? It still shows up under unread posts and new replies
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Butan on February 11, 2018, 09:21:55 am
Some uses the forum functions differently. I know because before I lurked over each potentially interesting boards and never used "unread/replies" filters.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on February 11, 2018, 09:42:25 am
Some uses the forum functions differently. I know because before I lurked over each potentially interesting boards and never used "unread/replies" filters.

Interesting. I've only ever used unread posts and new replies and never searched via board unless i want to find old threads
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: San on February 12, 2018, 06:20:37 am
I haven't played in the past year, but looking at these shields, you can organize your team to use some of these fairly strong 0 and 1 difficulty shields, just like how the opposing team is grouping up with all ranged. Shields seem really accessible.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Jona on February 12, 2018, 06:00:27 pm
I haven't played in the past year, but looking at these shields, you can organize your team to use some of these fairly strong 0 and 1 difficulty shields, just like how the opposing team is grouping up with all ranged. Shields seem really accessible.

The real question is how you "organize your team" in a pubbie server.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Butan on February 12, 2018, 08:09:43 pm
The real question is how you "organize your team" in a pubbie server.

You dont. Shields are personal armor 99% of the time in cRPG. The other 1% is on strat battles when you prepare for a push.
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: San on February 14, 2018, 02:13:58 pm
Yeah, similar in a way that range and ganks form, just need enough of an incentive to bring a shield for ranged even if you don't have any points. Organize wasn't the best term lmao
Title: Re: New balancers team.
Post by: Asheram on February 14, 2018, 08:58:12 pm
The 0 point shields that are not the original ones before the change seem worthless to me w/o points spent in shield skill. For example the plain cavalry shield only seems to block arrows dead center everywhere else they go through and hit me still.