New balancers team.

[Panos_Tournament]

don't worry about it paul - a better man is doing your job now, your ideas are redundant and you can retire

Stfu cunt, Paul has given some great features to the mod.

[BlackxBird]

10 competent shielders beats 10 competent archers

No they don‘t. If the archers play it well and the map is halfways open the archers will win 10/10 rounds. The shielders have to spread out to kill the archers. And when a archer gets attacked he can just skey and block. The only way for the shielders to win is by flag.

[Casul]

Stfu cunt, Paul has given some great features to the mod.

I think it was sarcasm

[Nightingale]

besides Panos I have already stated several times range itself is not OP. That our goal is to fix auto balancer. Hopefully, fix this soon.

[Butan]

Capped classes in cRPG would be a short term solution to a short term problem.
Freedom to play whatever class you want, and create a customised character around it, IS cRPG.

Whether it creates problems or not isnt important, remove that and you remove much more of the game than you would be trying to fix.
And yes, forcing people to play a class they dont want to play is a terrible idea too. Archers, throwers, cavalrymen, everyone deserves to play the game whenever they want to.


The quantity of ranged can be 0% or 100% on a server, as long as its balanced between the two opposing team, its all good. Same for all classes.
The meta is what the players decides it to be.

[Gurnisson]

Capped classes in cRPG would be a short term solution to a short term problem.
Freedom to play whatever class you want, and create a customised character around it, IS cRPG.

Whether it creates problems or not isnt important, remove that and you remove much more of the game than you would be trying to fix.
And yes, forcing people to play a class they dont want to play is a terrible idea too. Archers, throwers, cavalrymen, everyone deserves to play the game whenever they want to.
The quantity of ranged can be 0% or 100% on a server, as long as its balanced between the two opposing team, its all good.

Completely agree

Giving more incentives to play infantry could help though

[Gravoth_iii]

Native has already a built in cap system, why not use the same?

2 ranged per 10 people is more than enough i think.

Yes but how do you implement the class system into crpg where anyone could hybrid for anything, and have a set build on their character? Do you still select a class like native? Sounds like it would require some coding to somehow decide what person would be forced to select the archer class. Maybe its just 10 lines of code though...

1v1? lol. In battle? By not having 80% of ranged on the same team. It happens way too often, even the ranged players are saying it themselves. 0 wpf xbow needs to be fixed too, but that's actually a nerf to melee players.

As long as there is ranged there will be melee crying. Their numbers matter sure, but the nature of the class will always end up making people complain no matter how many they are. Unless adapted to and played around, game evolving a meta to defeat them aka shields at the very minimum. It will be borderline impossible to satisfy someone unwilling to even carry a shield when it comes to the concept of fighting someone that takes you down at range.

[Finse]

Just saying, Rider aka Gandalf77 isnt representing EU in anyway, wouldnt be fair towards any EU member lol

[Rico]

What if the community found out about the 11%?

[Corsair831]

Native has already a built in cap system, why not use the same?

2 ranged per 10 people is more than enough i think.



My apologies then!


So, thats your solution to the problem? Everyone should respec to shielders so a bunch of robin hood/legolas wannabes can have their "fun"?

And dont speak about the 0 shield skill shields, because they are shit, you saw it yourself last night, even though I was "protecting" myself, I still got shot.


So yeah, IMO a ranged cap is a must, or sooner or later c-rpg will be dead again, wether you like it or not.

Hmm, i don't think everyone should respec shielders no, but i think unshielded melee infantry should definitely be in the minority

No they don‘t. If the archers play it well and the map is halfways open the archers will win 10/10 rounds. The shielders have to spread out to kill the archers. And when a archer gets attacked he can just skey and block. The only way for the shielders to win is by flag.

I said competent shielders against competent archers. As you said, the shielders spread out to kill the archers. Infantry should all be carrying either a spear or throwing weapons. They should also move faster than archers. If an archer beats an infantry in melee, that infantry just isn't very good.

[Bugnir]

Implementing restrictions would be a suboptimal solution to the ranged problem and instead we should try and incentivice ranged players to pick a different class.
Making the flags spawn after 10-30 seconds or make them spawn immidiately might be a good way to curb the power of mass ranged as a team with 10 ranged out of 20 would simply lose out to flag capping if all the archers did was staying at a distance. Infantry which would normally protect their 10 archer buddies would have to prioritze flags which would make the archers vulnerable to cav or backstabbers and since the team lacks non-archer classes as a whole, it would be harder to successfully contest flags.
As mass archer teams would constantly lose it is my hope that some players might reassess their choice of class and perhaps pick something else decreasing the number of ranged to a few dedicated ones.

Get a shield

Yeah fuck off already shields don't do jack shit. If you are chasing one or two ranged it is handy but once there are 3 ranged shooting at you from different angles the shield starts to lose its value, not to mention that shields lose their effectiveness in melee combat aswell. Btw to everyone who says something in the line of "10 shielders beat 10 archers" that is not only debateable but it is also not taking into account the fodder classes. It will not be '10 shielders vs 10 archers' but rather '10 shielders and 10 fodder vs 10 archers and 10 fodder', and in this scenario the archers simply kill the fodder of team shielder, then the shielders have to fight the archer team's fodder while taking heavy fire and if they win that engagement they will be heavily depleted and unable to chase the remaining archers.

I constantly see people suggest player cooperation, "teamplay" is the word I see the most, to beat mass ranged which I frankly find funny because they don't consider what 'teamplay' actually entails.

The best way for you to beat ranged spam on most maps would be to hide whilst waiting for flags. Ranged players obviously won't see a problem with this because while waiting they can still shoot and play their class. Do you know what melee players get to do? They get to do absolutely jack shit for 2-3minutes.

Wouldn't a shieldwall counter this?

It might be easy to do a stationary shieldwall with a couple of players but try moving that shieldwall, even on strat battles where you have some autist frantically shouting orders at you the shieldwall rarely stays in perfect formation if it has to move. Archers will spread out and shoot your flanks anyways so the shieldwall will be nullified after a while. A shieldwall is not a testudo, it's useful in the beginning when all archers are concentrated on one spot but as soon as they spread out you will get shot.

My routine on EU1 usally goes as following: I get into the shield wall, raise my shield, press T and tab out to browse hentai. If I stay tabbed for too long I will find myself dead once I tab back because Zero_Sat snuck behind our lines as camel archer and headshotted me twice, so usually I will simply have to do with some hot cRPG bitches like Pony_Princess, Xesta or Cassi. If none of them are on the server I'll zoom in on a female cav player and pretend it is a low-res centaur girl from some 90s eroge.

[Gravoth_iii]

Shieldwalls are terrible cause you dont ever actually want to get shot, but if you do get shot at you want the shield to absorb it. I do like the incentive of flags, and i definitely agree battle could be more objective based from the get go rather than as a solution to ranged/cav delay.

Oh and get a shield isnt a definite win against any odds. 10 ranged 10 fodder vs 10 shields 10 fodder isnt necessarily such a simple outcome, the fodder combined with shielders could easily take out opposing infantry just by sheer numbers and then either hunt down ranged or cap flags. Ranged (unless spectacularly good) dont usually impact a clash enough to leave a window of ~10 melee less (though assuming some would die on the path still makes it a large difference) victorious. Ranged over longer periods of fighting scattered will however take down people slow and steady which makes them viable, but that is all assuming one side uses strategy rather than zerg rush.

[Gandalf77]

@Gandalf if you think you should be invulnerable to range damage at 35 body armor something is wrong with you and you are disgracing EU by representing them.


Changes I'm responsible for for the xbows since a couple of years back.
Increase in strength requirement to 16 and 13.
Decrease in steel bolt count from 13 to 7
Decrease in bolt count from 17 to 10
Increase slot requirement on xbows. to 3 and then later to 4 for arb
Decrease in slot requirement on ammo (obvious reasons for this change *look at above change if ur retarded*)
Decrease in Accuracy.
A decrease in available side arms.

(click to show/hide)

Plate: -50% reduction
Heavy: 35ish% reduction
Medium: 15ish% reduction
Light: 5ish% reduction
naked: no change

Increase in cost and upkeep.
Decrease in strength requirement from 16 to 15 and 13 to 12.

so yes - "hahahahaha" I nerfed the hell out of xbow you fucking inbred.

I dont expect to be invulnerable, I just would want to use low armor without getting 1 hit by random shoot to the body.

[Jona]

Stfu cunt, Paul has given some great features to the mod.

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Gotta defend mah fave aussie's honor while he's sleeping.

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[Kadeth]

As long as there is ranged there will be melee crying. Their numbers matter sure, but the nature of the class will always end up making people complain no matter how many they are. Unless adapted to and played around, game evolving a meta to defeat them aka shields at the very minimum. It will be borderline impossible to satisfy someone unwilling to even carry a shield when it comes to the concept of fighting someone that takes you down at range.

There's always going to be crying from all classes, but I think it's undeniable that the number of ranged players has skyrocketed recently, why should we put them all on the same team if it can be avoided? Carrying a shield is fine, but everyone throwing points into shield will have other effects on the group fighting meta too - 2h and polearm heroes being viable is something that sets cRPG apart from native, but they just get destroyed with the regular class imbalance we're seeing lately.