cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: chadz on January 09, 2011, 11:16:38 pm

Title: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: chadz on January 09, 2011, 11:16:38 pm
If people want to work towards something, I recommend heirlooms. Retirement will be back soon, and the only condition will be level 31.

I don't know if heirlooms are currently strong or hardly worth it, if it's the latter, they might get a buff. I'll check with the items team.

Also, there will be a, how should I put it without revealing too much, very special set of "skills" that you can acquire soon, in another way than simply leveling. This should make things very interesting for people that want to have more persistance to their char, without breaking the balance that the game has currently recieved (aka not making them godlike).

Now let me get back to finishing that patch, just dropped in here to announce this :).
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Baggy on January 09, 2011, 11:18:02 pm
If people want to work towards something, I recommend heirlooms. Retirement will be back soon, and the only condition will be level 31.

I don't know if heirlooms are currently strong or hardly worth it, if it's the latter, they might get a buff. I'll check with the items team.

Also, there will be a, how should I put it without revealing too much, very special set of "skills" that you can acquire soon, in another way than simply leveling. This should make things very interesting for people that want to have more persistance to their char.

Now let me get back to finishing that patch, just dropped in here to announce this :).

Yay for "skills"
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: balbaroth on January 09, 2011, 11:28:22 pm
If people want to work towards something, I recommend heirlooms. Retirement will be back soon, and the only condition will be level 31.

I don't know if heirlooms are currently strong or hardly worth it, if it's the latter, they might get a buff. I'll check with the items team.

Also, there will be a, how should I put it without revealing too much, very special set of "skills" that you can acquire soon, in another way than simply leveling. This should make things very interesting for people that want to have more persistance to their char, without breaking the balance that the game has currently recieved (aka not making them godlike).

Now let me get back to finishing that patch, just dropped in here to announce this :).

 yay official retirement info !  thanks chadz , cant wait to leave this awful char i messed up , beware ! balb will be back in business :D
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Joker86 on January 09, 2011, 11:30:53 pm
I bet those are some kind of "intelligence/charisma"-skills, which improve by doing something on the server (like WPF in SP). E.g. looting skill, which gies you more money per tick or something like that.

Yay for that  :D
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Belmont on January 09, 2011, 11:35:32 pm
Looking forward to the return of retirement. I have one question regarding heirlooms however, will be able to have our current heirlooms refunded? I've made a topic suggesting this (here (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,360.0.html)) and another one was created today (here (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,677.0.html)) and it seems a lot of people support the option to "refund" heirlooms. Thanks for the great work.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Goretooth on January 09, 2011, 11:36:38 pm
I haven't played patch cannot wait
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on January 09, 2011, 11:39:12 pm
Hallelujah!
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Grey on January 09, 2011, 11:42:06 pm
woot for mystery skills! CANTWAITOMGOMGOMGOMG Im gonna have a fit!
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Ishar on January 09, 2011, 11:43:15 pm
It seems that Haraldrx will be forced to update the eyecandy script again. How long will it take this time? 10 minutes? One hour? Two? Maybe a whole day? Place your bets!
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Banok on January 09, 2011, 11:45:05 pm
Sweet. wonder what mystery skills are!

I think 31 is personally is way too high but I guess it will keep grinders happy

its pretty unfair since us guys got hierlooms pre patch fairly easy, but guess that cant be helped.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Tuna on January 09, 2011, 11:52:57 pm
31? That's going to be a loooot of pain.  :|
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Casimir on January 10, 2011, 12:15:09 am
I'd love to be able to redo my modifiers but i doubt this will happen. I think we must live with our decisions whether wise or not.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Grey on January 10, 2011, 12:18:12 am
It seems that Haraldrx will be forced to update the eyecandy script again. How long will it take this time? 10 minutes? One hour? Two? Maybe a whole day? Place your bets!

Never used it, like the basic page, it works, and its no nonsense.

31? That's going to be a loooot of pain.  :|

Yeah its taking me LOOOONG to get to 31, like as long as it took to get to 30.....
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Belatu on January 10, 2011, 12:31:25 am
What skills what do you want to mean??   will you put the apples for health recovery on trees? I can shot them with my bow!!

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Bulzur on January 10, 2011, 12:32:06 am

Yeah its taking me LOOOONG to get to 31, like as long as it took to get to 30.....

Compare it with before patch, when you could retire at lv20
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on January 10, 2011, 12:34:32 am
For those wondering what the mystery skills are, here's a sneak preview of a couple:

1) Persuasion (charisma based): On the battlefield, you may approach a player on your team and press 'q'. If they are close enough, you may then use a voice command (a new one, to be implemented soon, recorded by chadz herself) which will play a chat up line (from a random selection of 10). Depending on your persuasion skill, you will gain or lose relationship points with that player. When your points are +50 or higher, you can marry and have physical relations (not necessarily in that order, a cut-scene will play which may distract you from the battle) with the character. The other player can refuse by running away. This makes the athletics skill even more crucial for those who want to remain chaste.

You can also use the persuasion skill in a similar way against enemy players, whereupon an all-new animation will play (your character will do a strip tease, to be implemented soon). If your persuasion skill is high, the enemy will become distracted and be paralysed for 5 seconds. If you have a low persuasion skill, your character will become embarrassed and be too nervous to perform, and the attempt will fail.

2) Prisoner Management: This will function in-game in the following way; If you deliver a killing blow to an enemy with a blunt weapon, it will count as a knock-out. Their character will rise from the ground and follow you around for the rest of the battle. The higher your skill, the more people you can have following you. They won't fight for you; however, with higher prisoner management skills combined with persuasion, you can force them to dance for you as they follow your character (new animations coming soon). With maxed out prisoner management and persuasion, expect to be able to command up to 10 enemies, all dancing along behind you.

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Paul on January 10, 2011, 01:02:44 am
I suggest that retirement gives +1 skill point for an even and +10 wpf points for an odd generation number, so hopeless grinders have something to grind for. Maybe limit this bonus to 10-30 generations then.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Babelfish on January 10, 2011, 01:03:23 am
Seeing as how most of what paul suggested are already implanted, i would assume his idea about the new skills-set are the 'mysterious new skills' :)

For more information read;
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,141903.msg3407327.html#msg3407327
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Murrogh on January 10, 2011, 01:05:57 am
I think that the amount of time required for a 31 retirement is too high. To go from 30-31 is almost the same as the amount of experience to go from 1-30.

It seems like 30 is a cutoff level. I would suggest this as the retirement age or make the retirement xp requirement a little less abrupt.

For me at least, this will take 7-8 weeks to be able to retire a character if I play my normal amount.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: AirPhforce on January 10, 2011, 01:10:32 am
It takes as much XP to get from 30 to 31 as it does to get from 1 to 30.

Holy CRAP.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Ujin on January 10, 2011, 01:15:50 am
Looking forward to the return of retirement. I have one question regarding heirlooms however, will be able to have our current heirlooms refunded? I've made a topic suggesting this (here (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,360.0.html)) and another one was created today (here (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,677.0.html)) and it seems a lot of people support the option to "refund" heirlooms. Thanks for the great work.
bumpity
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Beans on January 10, 2011, 01:18:43 am
Can we do:

level 30 gives you the ability to retire - keep your gear, reset of stats

level 31 gives you a better retire- same thing but you also get an heirloom


This way players that just want to try out new builds/stats can do that without too much pain.  And players who want to grind hardcore can do so and get a small reward for it.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: balbaroth on January 10, 2011, 01:21:55 am
I suggest that retirement gives +1 skill point for an even and +10 wpf points for an odd generation number, so hopeless grinders have something to grind for. Maybe limit this bonus to 10-30 generations then.

i wouldn't mind that but casuals are so afraid of grinders :\   people will whine about the little advantage the grinders get  ( grinders were destroyed at patch 200 ) , anything would be good at this point
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Ujin on January 10, 2011, 01:23:01 am
Can we do:

level 30 gives you the ability to retire - keep your gear, reset of stats

level 31 gives you a better retire- same thing but you also get an heirloom


This way players that just want to try out new builds/stats can do that without too much pain.  And players who want to grind hardcore can do so and get a small reward for it.
Would be nice imo, some people want to change their builds cause the mechanics have changed drastically (archers+ha for example), why force them into grinding ?

Other than that, great news, can't wait.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Lordark on January 10, 2011, 01:26:57 am
Ive never been more excited than some girl waiting for Beatles show to start in the 1960's  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Joker86 on January 10, 2011, 01:48:10 am
Some leader skill would be sweet, to lead bots into battle. You have a leadership skill, and you have several standarts to buy, e.g. "Peasant archer squad banner" for 2 leadership skill (6 peasant archers) "Veteran Spearman Platoon standart" for 6 leadership skill (12 veteran spearmen) "Knight Lance banner" for 10 leadership skill (4 heavy knights). Just place it in your inventory, they will spawn with you an you can control them like in SP. They won't be much effective, but definitely a help  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Ishar on January 10, 2011, 01:55:46 am
In your dreams maybe, something like that would be a HUGE change. I think NPCs would get even more testing and hype than the upkeep system. Unless of course, chadz is trolling us. Now that I think about it...
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Banok on January 10, 2011, 01:55:59 am
I too have a sugestion if retirement requirement is lvl 31 and lvl 31 takes say 8.3 mill exp. instead of retiring always putting you to level 1 can it instead take away 8.3 mil exp. this way if you level to 32 and retire you waste exp.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Keshian on January 10, 2011, 01:56:04 am
Sweet. wonder what mystery skills are!

I think 31 is personally is way too high but I guess it will keep grinders happy

its pretty unfair since us guys got hierlooms pre patch fairly easy, but guess that cant be helped.

Yeh, it was a LOT easier to retire pre-patch for a lot more benefits.  Now its really difficult for very little benefit.  Level 30 is tough enough to do in 1 week, let alone 31, whereas even making 25K-30K pre-patch took less effort.

Level 30 was originally proposed adn made sense, because you make xp slower, but gold quicker then pre-patch.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: AirPhforce on January 10, 2011, 01:58:50 am
Yeh, it was a LOT easier to retire pre-patch for a lot more benefits.  Now its really difficult for very little benefit.  Level 30 is tough enough to do in 1 week, let alone 31, whereas even making 25K-30K pre-patch took less effort.

Level 30 was originally proposed adn made sense, because you make xp slower, but gold quicker then pre-patch.

I'd like to see it at 30 as well.

Grinding so long for one item, yeesh.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Ishar on January 10, 2011, 01:59:29 am
Oh, question: does higher generation still give you exp AND gold bonus, or is it just exp now? Bonus gold would mean being able to maintain better gear constantly - and that would be a HUGE thing, I think bigger than any pre-patch benefits.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: WaltF4 on January 10, 2011, 02:03:39 am
It did not give a gold bonus pre-patch.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Gorath on January 10, 2011, 02:04:56 am
Grinders should get penalties for grinding.  Sort of as a reinforcement to the RL negatives of being a grinder.  Less troops for strategus (no social skills), less gold from towns (poor worker), less strength (pale pasty and physically nasty grind-nerd).

To compensate they get +1 e-grind e-peen level to add to 1 wpf per grind level.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Banok on January 10, 2011, 02:07:23 am
yeah let grinders aspire to having 10 hierlooms. dont make non grinders not able to have hierlooms :P
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on January 10, 2011, 02:36:08 am
(click to show/hide)

Even though i work 8-9 hours every day, i will take my chances!
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Keshian on January 10, 2011, 03:08:06 am
This heavily favors people who have retired before and not new players.  At this point I would only consider ( may or may not) retiring my main character not my gen 4 alts as 11 retirements (+110% xp) makes it a slightly bearable grind rather then just a freakish annoyance.  I couldnt imagine being a new player with gen 1 trying to get to level 31 under the new xp system, would be like 3-4 weeks and would you really want to do it all over again for just a minor improvement to 1 weapon?
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Rhaelys on January 10, 2011, 03:15:22 am
This heavily favors people who have retired before and not new players.  At this point I would only consider ( may or may not) retiring my main character not my gen 4 alts as 11 retirements (+110% xp) makes it a slightly bearable grind rather then just a freakish annoyance.  I couldnt imagine being a new player with gen 1 trying to get to level 31 under the new xp system, would be like 3-4 weeks and would you really want to do it all over again for just a minor improvement to 1 weapon?

Those people also paid lots of gold to do so. This patch already caters so much to new players, anyway.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Grey on January 10, 2011, 03:41:15 am
A lot of peeps have not understood how retiring is gonna work....I agree 31 is a loong way from 30, but, its your chars ENTIRE proffesional live as a PRO killer. Dont take our poor char's little RP lives away, they want to live long before having to retire :P
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Keshian on January 10, 2011, 10:19:15 am
Okay... THE SOFT LEVEL CAP, I REPEAT LEVEL CAP is 30, it makes no sense whatsoever that to retire you must reach a level HIGHER then the LEVEL CAP.  Is anyone else wondering what chadz was thinking?  Isnt the whole point of a level cap that people dont go past it (SOFT = vast majority dont go past it)?  Yet you are rewarded with a heirloom if you try to break the level cap.  Why didnt he keep it at level 30 like he mentioned before when discussing the patch in early dec./late nov.?
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: bruce on January 10, 2011, 10:23:40 am
Why didnt he keep it at level 30 like he mentioned before when discussing the patch in early dec./late nov.?

To make retiring a nontrivial affair. Else a typical grinder could retire every week.


Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Helrekkr on January 10, 2011, 10:35:13 am
I'm cool with this but please buff heirlooms a bit since it is clear the intention is to make them more rare. :)
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: bruce on January 10, 2011, 10:38:41 am
I'm cool with this but please buff heirlooms a bit since it is clear the intention is to make them more rare. :)

Heirlooms - particularly weapons - are very strong generally speaking. Heirloom a weapon a few times and it's the equivalent of a extra level of powerstrike (consider you've got a level cap practically speaking now, this is big), and they're a bit faster on top.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Helrekkr on January 10, 2011, 10:40:23 am
Heirlooms - particularly weapons - are very strong generally speaking. Heirloom a weapon a few times and it's the equivalent of a extra level of powerstrike (consider you've got a level cap practically speaking now, this is big), and they're a bit faster on top.

True but it's going to take ages to actually get a weapon to +3 after the change and everyone will lose 2/3rds of their heirloom levels.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Olwen on January 10, 2011, 01:18:09 pm
i want my hero skill :x, btw lvl 31 you're a damn lamer chadz, hate you
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Kafein on January 10, 2011, 07:44:07 pm
In chadz We Trust.


I'm allready looking forward to this.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Amroth on January 10, 2011, 08:03:24 pm
Can we do:

level 30 gives you the ability to retire - keep your gear, reset of stats

level 31 gives you a better retire- same thing but you also get an heirloom


This way players that just want to try out new builds/stats can do that without too much pain.  And players who want to grind hardcore can do so and get a small reward for it.

+1

can't wait for patch XD
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Engine on January 10, 2011, 08:09:56 pm
Again, Kesh is right. It's brutally painful to get from 30 to 31. It's over the top, really... I recommend making 31 the soft cap (because you need that for your final multiplicate-of-three attribute point anyway), and reducing the exp needed to a more reasonable figure; maybe double what would've been the normal figure.

Heirloomed items are definitely strong... but don't merit an arbitrary grind. That just takes away from the enjoyment of the game, it doesn't enhance it...
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Tristan on January 10, 2011, 08:26:46 pm
I love the idea of limiting heirlooms and 31 retirement..

But please please make it possible to respec your char before lvl 31....
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Astinus on January 10, 2011, 08:42:35 pm
Whatever changes you are planning, I hope those won't influence Strategus in a way that force you to grind to be competitive. That would be a way to resurrect the mod and it's not good, when considering I rejoyced every time you killed it
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Tungsten on January 10, 2011, 11:46:24 pm
1-30 is 4.4 million experience.
30-31 is 4.3 million experience.

Please reduce that. That's ridiculous.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: RazorRamon on January 10, 2011, 11:48:14 pm
^
that's the whole point
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Tungsten on January 10, 2011, 11:51:39 pm
^
that's the whole point
So the whole point is to let people with heirloomed gear continue to dominate those without it because their weaponry is better and their armour mitigates more?
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Socrates on January 10, 2011, 11:51:46 pm
easy come, easy go.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Bulzur on January 12, 2011, 03:37:33 pm
At the question "Why make retirement possible only at lv31, and not before at lv30" :

To make retiring a nontrivial affair. Else a typical grinder could retire every week.

I agree grinders would get it too easily, but casual would have like one item heirloomed, and that's all. And since heirloomed items, already way better at +2 than their normal version, will maybe get buff, then the difference between casual lv30 and grinder lv30 will be quite big.

I'd like to suggest somthing kinda new :
-Make retirement possible at lv29.
-Allow retiring after, at least, 2 (two, deux, dos) weeks, and not just one. Since way, grinders or not, it doesn't really matter anymore. I prefer fighting one guy who retired three times since patch, with 5 alts who did the same, than one guy who retired 6 times with his main character. o_O
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Cepeshi on January 12, 2011, 03:45:20 pm
Ffs guys, if you think 4 mil is way too much, just dont do it! Do not cry for nerfs just because you want to have same advantage some person, that actually put some effort (grinding 4mega xp) in it. Bullcrap.

Leave the levelling as it is, the grinders have anyways a uber advantage by the generational XP bonus, my mate is getting 1600xp/min on x1, i am getting 1200. I think that is OK. If he was able to retire more before, he has it easier to get to 31 now, by quite a big amount.

So stop whining, u wont get shinies without playing for them. Even from the RP point of view: you are being trained as a soldier for lvls 1-30, then ur training is somewhat done and u go plow your enemies. After some time doing this (lvl 30-31) you grow old enough to be released from the service, you slaughtered a lots of guys, you turned few tides, struggled during long time wars on battlefields.

Leave the retirement as it is, if you want to have an edge, work for it!

(and yeah, i work and shit, yet still i manage to make like 100-200k xp per day, gonna be more during free time :P, still 3,3 mill away from 31, but i think its perfectly fine, i do not mind honing my skills with softcapped char till i get just some more to retire :P)
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: Cepeshi on January 12, 2011, 03:46:20 pm
Bulzur: with the removal of WPF being traded to next gen, why is it different to fight 6th or 2nd generation now?
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: TommyHu on January 24, 2011, 11:12:07 pm
I was just thinking about how having a looting and trade skill would be nice. More gold per tick and trade could be cheaper item/repair costs. Trainer could work too now that I'm thinking about it.
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: UrLukur on January 24, 2011, 11:15:38 pm
Bulzur: with the removal of WPF being traded to next gen, why is it different to fight 6th or 2nd generation now?

More xp, better gear ?
Title: Re: Mini announcement - retirement info, more grind for people who like grind
Post by: bruce on January 24, 2011, 11:50:31 pm
More xp, better gear ?

Better gear, although less XP. For instance, a gen 6 would need to (under new conditions) grind to 8.7 mil every time. Because of the bonus, he would have to grind:
8.7+(8.7/1.1)+(8.7/1.2)+(8.7/1.3)+(8.7/1.4)+(8.7/1.5) = 42.566 m effective xp. So he wouldn't have "more XP" because you wasted so much getting retirements.

Of course, as your goal (level you want to reach) approaches infinity, then it pays to retire for the bonus as the retirement requirements are constant but the xp bonus isn't, so as you approach infinite retirements the time to reach level 31 becomes infinitesimal, or your effective XP gain (gen 1 gain) goes to infinity. The lower your goal, the less optimal it is to retire. For instance, that gen 6 overtakes a gen 1 after you grind 127.7 M effective XP (at which point, both the gen1 and gen6 will have 127.7M XP, but the gen 6 will be generating XP over that quicker).