cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Xant on March 20, 2016, 11:45:08 pm

Title: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 20, 2016, 11:45:08 pm

Sweden is a lost case already, this is what the rest of Europe is turning into as well though.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 21, 2016, 12:04:23 am
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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Teeth on March 21, 2016, 12:05:08 am
lol, that scooter though
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 21, 2016, 12:22:56 am
It might not be lost, but it's tragic that Swedes get such reward for their generosity and kind heart.

One day father of raped or killed girl will buy an automatic rifle and kill many of them, and then court will make an example of him for arbitrariness, and then pogroms will starts.

It's scary, but it looks inevitable.

Sometimes I'm glad that I live in a poor country with no social and full of hotheaded crazy countrymen, so migrants never ever cross this line in Poland.

In any case I'm not proud of it, but after bombing in Poland, in next day all the mosques and kebabs will fly by smoke...
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: BASNAK on March 21, 2016, 12:54:33 am
50 designated no go zones. How the fuck can a nation accept such a thing lol
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 21, 2016, 12:57:12 am
Meanwhile in Germany:


Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Kafein on March 21, 2016, 01:32:38 am
Nice youtube comments right there.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: LordBerenger on March 21, 2016, 02:05:11 am
One good thing with being dead is that all this BS from both sides won't be an issue....(pls tell me afterlife is not just one big ''/pol party'').
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Heibai on March 21, 2016, 04:13:55 am
Another great story for the right-wing populism *sigh*


Nice youtube comments right there.

Probably the same person :rolleyes:

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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Turkhammer on March 21, 2016, 04:38:08 am
lol, that scooter though
Yeah and the 60 Minutes crew escape and leave him to face the Somalis by himself.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 21, 2016, 05:21:54 am
Another great story for the right-wing populism *sigh*

I totally agree. It's the water for their mill. But I think it's about weakness of the state and badly understood political correctness.
At the end of the day, normal people are suffering - including immigrants. Sad.

You can't count on politicians. For them it's just an another opportunity for pushing political capital. They give a shit about people.

Edit:
lol, that scooter though

Yeah and the 60 Minutes crew escape and leave him to face the Somalis by himself.

The last Viking. Ragnar Lothbrok would be proud  :wink:
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Christo on March 21, 2016, 06:13:16 am
the most annoying shit is that you can't discuss a humanitarian crisis without being called a nazi, white supremacist xenophobic right winger. this will only end up making things very violent.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Vibe on March 21, 2016, 09:22:30 am
Scooter hero always ready to fight the immigrant devil
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 21, 2016, 09:59:29 am
A tear shed for the scoota brotha.



Sweden, yes! Worst case scenario, we up in the north cut off the country, live on our supply of iron and water power. A small, but wealthy country, where you can leave your house without locking your door, leave the bike unlocked on the yard and see it still there as you get home from X. The dream  :oops: Still is in the smaller towns around here, but definitely not for long.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 21, 2016, 10:00:23 am
Scooter hero always ready to fight the immigrant devil

The hero Sweden doesn't deserve, but a one it needs!
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Molly on March 21, 2016, 10:32:32 am
the most annoying shit is that you can't discuss a humanitarian crisis without being called a nazi, white supremacist xenophobic right winger. this will only end up making things very violent.
In my experience you can if you stick to proper vocabulary suiting a discussion.
If you go all "derp, sand friends eating our kids alive, fucking aliens", you can hardly expect a discussion.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Christo on March 21, 2016, 11:38:15 am
Unfortunately thats not how public/media works
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 21, 2016, 11:46:00 am
My city is home to about 50 thousands of Vietnamese. Decent, hardworking and smiling wonderful people. There was never any problems. They have their own organizations, associations, newspapers, launched a schools, kindergartens, have decided to try building their pagodas. They do fantastic food.

Asked how they feel in Vietnam, they respond with a laugh that as tourists on holiday.
Older generations, when asked about the young, laugh frankly and say that they are like bananas - yellow from outside, but white inside. lol

Where is our white chocolate chip cookiem against them? Simply doesn't exist, and we are friendly, helpful and tolerant. What a kurwa miracle...

Whether integration will be successful or not depends largely on immigrants. End of story.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 21, 2016, 12:50:19 pm
(click to show/hide)

I only have good experiences with thai and viet people, the worst it gets is when they talk too much hehe. Very kind people, funny how large the difference is, i wonder if they have an opinion on the other immigrants.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 21, 2016, 02:35:07 pm
They are more scared than we are. They are afraid that on the wave of anti-immigrant mood they can get ricochet... sick world...
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Molly on March 21, 2016, 03:32:51 pm
My city is home to about 50 thousands of Vietnamese. Decent, hardworking and smiling wonderful people. There was never any problems. They have their own organizations, associations, newspapers, launched a schools, kindergartens, have decided to try building their pagodas. They do fantastic food.

Asked how they feel in Vietnam, they respond with a laugh that as tourists on holiday.
Older generations, when asked about the young, laugh frankly and say that they are like bananas - yellow from outside, but white inside. lol

Where is our white chocolate chip cookiem against them? Simply doesn't exist, and we are friendly, helpful and tolerant. What a kurwa miracle...

Whether integration will be successful or not depends largely on immigrants. End of story.
That does not sound like they are integrated but more like they run their own little society.
But maybe I understood it wrong?
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 21, 2016, 03:44:48 pm
Where is our white chocolate chip cookiem against them? Simply doesn't exist, and we are friendly, helpful and tolerant. What a kurwa miracle...

Whether integration will be successful or not depends largely on immigrants. End of story.

What you say about immigrants from Vietnam is true, there's no xenophobic attacks and no hostility against them. People here think very highly of them, consider them to be hard working and kind. But it's not like every dark skinned immigrant is a savage and deserves to be treated like one. Everyone should be judged on his own merits, not those of the same skin colour.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Leshma on March 21, 2016, 04:27:10 pm
You'll need to try stronger spell if you want to summon Oberyn.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: LordBerenger on March 21, 2016, 04:30:49 pm
You'll need to try stronger spell if you want to summon Oberyn.

Anti-Racist is a codeword for Anti-White!

Asia for Asians, Africa for Africans, Europe for EVERYBODY!

Multiculture is the death of our great white, western & European superior cultures!

Zionism must be purged from earth!

It's not racist to love your country!
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 21, 2016, 04:32:08 pm
That does not sound like they are integrated but more like they run their own little society.
But maybe I understood it wrong?

There are more and more mixed marriages, more and more mixed children, and asked who they are, they say that they are Varsovians. In the first generation, they built their own society (around 1975), but in subsequent generations takes progressive integration. Today, they have more friends and colleagues among Poles (especially people ending universities) than among their own community. In Vietnam, they feel like a stranger, so the answer is yes. They are integrated. They built their wealth in Poland, and the money mainly invest in the Warsaw area.

What you say about immigrants from Vietnam is true, there's no xenophobic attacks and no hostility against them. People here think very highly of them, consider them to be hard working and kind. But it's not like every dark skinned immigrant is a savage and deserves to be treated like one. Everyone should be judged on his own merits, not those of the same skin colour.

Of course, I know many great dark-skinned people, some of them are my friends, especially well I remember my teacher of dermatology, a great guy with a huge knowledge (he's from Mali) and any generalization is bad, but look around - there is something wrong - 50 designated no go zones speaks for itself.


I recommend you a book - Ulrich Schnabel - Measuring Faith (Original Title: Die Vermessung des Glaubens)

Conclusions let everyone draw itself...
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on March 21, 2016, 04:58:05 pm
the most annoying shit is that you can't discuss a humanitarian crisis without being called a nazi, white supremacist xenophobic right winger. this will only end up making things very violent.

While there is truth to this and it is partly a reason for the rise of AfD in germany, it got better lately. However in general the error is not to be precise and not to differentiate. Because of what you said in some cases you can't call a racist a racist without being called a 'gutmensch' or whatever even if by definition he definitely is a racist, which is equally retarded.

In general especially the videos by angantyr are very biased and one-sided. The video xant posted is better, but still I don't get what exactly is your point or approach for a solution. All muslims are evil so give them run?
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Turkhammer on March 21, 2016, 04:59:18 pm
Another great story for the right-wing populism *sigh*




Oh I know, let's hide the story and not let people make up their own minds.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 21, 2016, 05:29:42 pm
All muslims are evil so give them run?

not all, for example, in Poland we have our Tatars, but they live here for 600 years ... lol

Solution? In Sweden snow is probably half of the year, if not longer (lol) ... instead let them attack on girls, better turn them into snow shovel ... smelly sluggards want only money from taxes, but job... c'mon it's for morons... this is a real problem and solution at the same time - work.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 21, 2016, 06:23:24 pm
The statistics are quite clear across Europe; problematic migrants are Arabs and Africans from Sunni Muslim countries, while Asians are often better behaved than natives on average.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 21, 2016, 06:38:32 pm
I will be brief, you're a demagogue. Vietnamese from any generation has never attacked our girls and never blew up any bombs. End of story.
And now you are free to call me chocolate chip cookie.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 21, 2016, 06:51:49 pm
http://www.altinget.dk/artikel/hoejere-kriminalitetsrate-hos-muslimske-grupper

The statistics index in the corner are official statistics from the Danish government about crime rates among 15-79 year old men, correlated for age and socio-economic status. Eight of the ethnicities in the top ten are all from Sunni Muslim countries, with the two remaining having a Muslim minority. As you can see other migrants (Western and Asian) are usually well-behaved, as anyone would expect of guests or people wanting to become a part of society in a new country.

Other minorities are concerned about Muslim crime rates too, like the Jewish and Hindu communities (the English Defense League even has a Sikh division). Iranian Shia muslims are usually also much better integrated.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 21, 2016, 07:20:12 pm
Vietnamese from any generation has never attacked our girls and never blew up any bombs. End of story.

To be fair, Arabs didn't attack them either.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 21, 2016, 07:23:40 pm
Basically, it's about immigration vs mass immigration, no one has a problem with immigration but any rational person should object to mass immigration, especially from the Middle East, that only leads to failed integration, multi-culturalism, identity politics (like in the US), soaring crime (especially violent crime and types of crime never seen before in the host countries), parallel societies and social friction.

President Sarkozy, Prime Minister Cameron even Chancellor Merkel has all admitted multi-culturalism has failed, Merkel even used the words 'utterly failed'. And this was before the current immigration crisis.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/8317497/Nicolas-Sarkozy-declares-multiculturalism-had-failed.html
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-12371994
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/oct/17/angela-merkel-german-multiculturalism-failed

A melting pot needs a recipe.


Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Heibai on March 21, 2016, 07:26:25 pm
I don't think it's right to compare these refugees seeking asylum with the other people who've sought migration through the whole administrative procedure back in the days.
Just as a point of view.

Solution? In Sweden snow is probably half of the year, if not longer (lol) ... instead let them attack on girls, better turn them into snow shovel ... smelly sluggards want only money from taxes, but job... c'mon it's for morons... this is a real problem and solution at the same time - work.

If there wouldn't be the problem of minimum collateral and other social welfare benefits, maybe.. but well, they wouldn't have come in the first place then.
To be honest, I don't care that they get a all the welfare stuff and what so on for nothing in exchange, if they would obey the government and behave themselves.

I'm living in Vienna and since all the refugees here in Austria are trying to settle in Vienna ultimately, I've encountered various refugees in the past months and I can say at first hand that some of them are really shitheads with no manners at all.
In the end, that's also the problem, in public people are only facing that kind of refugee and the hate spreads and extends among the whole population.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 21, 2016, 08:05:30 pm
In general especially the videos by angantyr are very biased and one-sided. The video xant posted is better, but still I don't get what exactly is your point or approach for a solution. All muslims are evil so give them run?
One-sided for highlighting specific problems like no go areas and schools with 80%+ immigrants that teachers have lost control of, students chasing the teachers around and beating them and the same teachers being barred from speaking with the press? Immigrant students ganging up and beating the native german students?

Pointing out an area where there isn't a problem doesn't diminish a problem in an entirely different area. It's two different things and it shouldn't be necessary to point it out everytime you point out a problem. If I say 'there's a lot of young men who are pickpockets in the area around Templehof' it doesn't detract from the original statement to say 'but there's also a lot who aren't'. The problem still exists.

There's positive stories but it's logical to focus on the problems because those are the areas that needs adjustment and where something could be done better.

People are in general rational enough for the journalists not to have to be pointing it out every time out of political correctness or for fear that the 'wrong' people might get the 'wrong' ideas or support the New Right.

In regards to it being biased, when it's as serious as violent crime and no go zones for police and firemen and the native population at large I think what we should be concerning ourselves with is the subject matter, and no condemnation is strong enough for some of the things going on and the policies enabling these.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on March 21, 2016, 11:11:23 pm
One-sided for highlighting specific problems like no go areas and schools with 80%+ immigrants that teachers have lost control of, students chasing the teachers around and beating them and the same teachers being barred from speaking with the press? Immigrant students ganging up and beating the native german students?

Pointing out an area where there isn't a problem doesn't diminish a problem in an entirely different area. It's two different things and it shouldn't be necessary to point out it out everytime you point out a problem. If I say 'there's a lot of young men who are pickpockets in the area around Templehof' it doesn't detract from the original statement to say 'but there's also a lot who aren't'. The problem still exists.

There's positive stories but it's logical to focus on the problems because those are the areas that needs adjustment and where something could be done better.

If the journalists should point it out every time for political reasons I think people should be left with the benefit of the doubt of being rational human beings capabable of thinking by themselves.

In regards to it being biased, when it's as serious as no go zones for police and firemen and the native population at large what I concern myself with is the subject matter.

DF is going over 30% during the next elections, and it will sort itself out somehow ;)
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 21, 2016, 11:19:34 pm
Another great story for the right-wing populism *sigh*

Populism? It's a fact that the migrants are causing problems, and countries like Sweden are seriously fucked up by them with many "no-go" zones already.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Beauchamp on March 22, 2016, 12:27:35 am
why would anything be lost, in 12 years or so you will vote your new hi tler when majority of people will be really pissed (they're not really pissed yet) and resolve the order within a few days. the problem is he will probably keep his power for a bit longer than needed...
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 22, 2016, 12:38:40 am
To be fair, Arabs didn't attack them either.

Probably not, but they did it with our neighbors, moreover what would they do here - coming here is by definition stupid cuz you have to work for own subsistence. Anyway, I think they feel through the skin, that an attack on our girls on the same day would end with serious injury or death.

You can hear the outrage? These are the cultural differences. We are brought up with a sense of respect for women. Some of us have even ridiculous behavior like kissing a woman's hand in greeting, while they were seeing a girl in a short dress only see ordinary whore.

Only one New Year's Eve night in Cologne - 600 attacks. It's hard to believe.

Populism?

Yes. Such situations are indeed an ideal for populists. They will incite hatred to build electorate. Low instincts are very easy to play. This is a serious and dangerous situation.

DF is going over 30% during the next elections...

What DF is ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Sweden
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Germany

e?

@Heibai - It seems to me that immigrants have two options. Obey the local rules or leave at our expense. If they can not leave, they have only one option.

BTW - Try to do something wrong in Saudi Arabia...

why would anything be lost, in 12 years or so you will vote your new hi tler when majority of people will be really pissed (they're not really pissed yet) and resolve the order within a few days. the problem is he will probably keep his power for a bit longer than needed...

That is what worries me the most...
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: LordBerenger on March 22, 2016, 12:48:37 am
Who will save Europe the next time when they vote in Natzees as leaders? Russia, USA or China this time?
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 22, 2016, 12:57:00 am
Who will save Europe the next time when they vote in Natzees as leaders? Russia, USA or China this time?

http://trumpdonald.org/
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: LordBerenger on March 22, 2016, 01:53:38 am
http://trumpdonald.org/

China will help and have u all make cheap IPhones when ur liberated. In return u get awesome Chinese food. No more boring European crappy food.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on March 22, 2016, 02:19:06 am
What DF is ?

It's Danish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_People's_Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danish_People's_Party) - Angantyr is from Denmark.

Germany will get over it, it's a big country, and less of a socialist paradise in comparison to Sweden. Sweden will have to bite the pillow in and take it. But Denmark can still be saved! Draconian integration laws will hopefully do the trick. :)

EDIT:

It's pretty good actually:

Quote
Danish People's Party's stated goals are to protect the freedom and cultural heritage of the Danish people, including the family, the Monarchy and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Denmark, to enforce a strict rule of law, to work against Denmark becoming a multi-ethnic society by limiting immigration and promoting cultural assimilation of admitted immigrants, to maintain a strong welfare system for those in need, and to promote entrepreneurship and economic growth by strengthening education and encouraging people to work, and to protect the environment and natural resources
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on March 22, 2016, 02:23:46 am
A poorly constructed bait video to start discussing a real topic.

60 minutes is a bit behind with the no go zones, they have tried for that angle years ago and failed.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 22, 2016, 02:37:56 am
These are the cultural differences. We are brought up with a sense of respect for women.

You must not fool yourself - that's just an illusion.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Vibe on March 22, 2016, 12:17:15 pm
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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Thomek on March 22, 2016, 01:35:34 pm
We are brought up with a sense of respect for women

Haha.. Sorry but Poland still has a lot to learn in that department. There's a lot of crap going on that would be unacceptable in Norway or most western countries i.ex.. I know from my friends experiences.

Basically, there's a lot of racism, bigotry and ignorance in Poland. Much more than in the west. It's natural of course, since it's one of the most ethnically homogeneous nations on earth. It seems to me that lack of immigration has become a single point of pride in many polish minds. Something absolutely ridiculous, since it's not something you have achieved as a nation, just a consequence of poverty, lack of travelling possibilities, historical cleaning of ethnicities, and a language barrier larger than most.

Now, what's going on in Sweden is of course another topic entirely..
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Grytviken on March 22, 2016, 02:00:23 pm
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on March 22, 2016, 02:02:04 pm
I remember our talk on Ukraine thread when I read your posts here. For once Thomek, you have in the person of Harpag, first hand knowledge of another country, not just your own point of view or an experience from an acquantaince. You could lean on that and soften the thinking "dem non-scandinavian countries in Eastern Europe are shitholes"  :P
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Beauchamp on March 22, 2016, 02:06:36 pm
Who will save Europe the next time when they vote in Natzees as leaders? Russia, USA or China this time?

definitely neither of the shitheads running for your president, thats for sure.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Grytviken on March 22, 2016, 02:21:37 pm
definitely neither of the shitheads running for your president, thats for sure.
Ace of Base will save Sweden

Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Kafein on March 22, 2016, 02:24:46 pm
I remember our talk on Ukraine thread when I read your posts here. For once Thomek, you have in the person of Harpag, first hand knowledge of another country, not just your own point of view or an experience from an acquantaince. You could lean on that and soften the thinking "dem non-scandinavian countries in Eastern Europe are shitholes"  :P

Actually, Thomek has first-hand experience of Poland, as I'm sure he can describe in more detail than I can.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Thomek on March 22, 2016, 02:28:48 pm
I remember our talk on Ukraine thread when I read your posts here. For once Thomek, you have in the person of Harpag, first hand knowledge of another country, not just your own point of view or an experience from an acquantaince. You could lean on that and soften the thinking "dem non-scandinavian countries in Eastern Europe are shitholes"  :P

What are you talking about, I lived in Lodz, Poland for 7 years, and still do (when im not in Belfast).

It's only when I traveled to Russia for 2 weeks, that I realized Poland is actually western Paradise. :D  (And seriously, Poland is becoming a really nice place to live. I like it there very much!)

It's just that in some areas, specially mentality and organization, "Poland" still have a lot of progress to be made. Nothing wrong in saying that.

Russia and Ukraine however.. are lagging behind on a completely different level. They are not where they should be, economically, mentality wise, freedom, corruption, etc etc.. Their leaders since the fall of SU, have wasted a highly educated population, infrastructure and industry through terrible, corrupt and crime ridden policies. They are literally the worst and most corrupt of all the former SU nations. (Exept perhaps small fucked up places like transnitria and the like.. )
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 22, 2016, 02:32:18 pm
@Falka

You may have a right, generalization is wrong and it can be just illusion, but appearances are still preserved...

@Armpit

Draconian law is easy to write, but difficult to enforce.

In my opinion better is normal civilized law (I perceive Scandinavian community as the most civilized in whole world and lose your values is a big loss for everuone), but provided that it is perfectly enforceable and inevitable.

It's not quantum of the penalty but its inevitability deterring most criminals.

Just whole EU have fucked police and instead forced social works we all have prisons like a *** or **** hotels.

Nobody wants to live in a police country, but it's better than the prospect of electing a new Hi tler.

@Thomek

I totally agree with you, but I'm not trying to compare Norwegians and Poles here. You don't have to tell me that. Pff.. You had a lot more luck, about oil and gas not to even mention... I am here comparing rather average from PL to average from Sunni countries....

On the other hand, you're from Łódź, the worst possible place in Poland... everyone in Poland knows that Łódź is a city of "menels" and tramps lol

Remember affair of skins hunters and Pavulon? They served a drug killer and sold information about deaths to funeral service. Finally, after 10 years of criminal proceedings, no one went to jail. Possible only in Lodz.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Thomek on March 22, 2016, 03:34:55 pm
lol I know.. here is a fantastic documentary about it.. (BBC docu, english subs, swedish(!) director..)

It's about ambulance workers (!) murdering patients to collect body-bonuses from the undertakers.. Creepy, unbelievable stuff. Fantastic characters.

Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 22, 2016, 03:57:21 pm
DF is going over 30% during the next elections, and it will sort itself out somehow ;)
Yes, they have my vote at least. It would warm my heart if they had yours aswell. They are addressing some of the most important concerns and issues of our time.

First time I vote Right-leaning, which may surprise some here. But probably the first of many. Like so many others on the New Right I'm a traditional liberalist fed up with the political correctness, childish utopian fantasies and historically stupid and damaging policies of the Left, mainly in regards to immigration and SJWs. It's not undeserved that 'Regressive Left' has become a staple political term in recent years.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: [ptx] on March 22, 2016, 04:00:31 pm
Angantyr has undergone quite the transformation, hasn't he?
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 22, 2016, 04:08:38 pm
Angantyr has undergone quite the transformation, hasn't he?
He isn't the only one. SJWs and immigrants are two things that have seriously disillusioned a lot of people. Trump's popularity is the result of that same disillusionment.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Heibai on March 22, 2016, 05:22:32 pm
Populism? It's a fact that the migrants are causing problems, and countries like Sweden are seriously fucked up by them with many "no-go" zones already.

They do, I never said something else, but right-winged parties are using this for their benefits.

Depending on the country, some of them are going much further than the "no refugees/illegal migrants (which I also support)" stuff.

Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on March 22, 2016, 06:02:12 pm
Yes, they have my vote at least. It would warm my heart if they had yours aswell. They are addressing some of the most important concerns and issues of our time.

First time I vote Right-leaning, which may surprise some here. But probably the first of many. Like so many others on the New Right I'm a traditional liberalist fed up with the political correctness, childish utopian fantasies and historically stupid and damaging policies of the Left, mainly in regards to immigration and SJWs. It's not undeserved that 'Regressive Left' has become a staple political term in recent years.

Same with me. Everyone else seems to be completely toothless right now, so i will vote for DF for the very first time. When "the storm" passes, and it hopefully will in a not so distant future, there will be place for the soft touch again, but until then - harsh times call for harsh measures and treatment.

@Armpit

Draconian law is easy to write, but difficult to enforce.

In my opinion better is normal civilized law (I perceive Scandinavian community as the most civilized in whole world and lose your values is a big loss for everuone), but provided that it is perfectly enforceable and inevitable.

It's not quantum of the penalty but its inevitability deterring most criminals.

Just whole EU have fucked police and instead forced social works we all have prisons like a *** or **** hotels.

Nobody wants to live in a police country, but it's better than the prospect of electing a new Hi tler.

Well, by Draconian integration laws i mean sending people back to where they came from for the mildest criminal offenses, for being unemplyed and for not learning the language. No excuses, no second chances, no long and expensive cases in court and whatnot. A very narrow and strict integration course.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 22, 2016, 06:38:14 pm
It's hard to say what is Left and what is Right anymore, and much of the traditional political language has been diluted.
New Right parties are populists and have plenty of traditional leftist social policies combined with conservative national policies, which is new compared to for example North European style social-democrats where the Right won the economic war but the Left won the culture war.
Regressive Leftists and other culture marxists have long used words like xenophobia and racism and patriarchy in completely ridiculous contexts, usually as a means to shut down civil conversation, that the words have all but lost their meaning.


Angantyr has undergone quite the transformation, hasn't he?
I started looking more on the actual numbers and statistical data.

We also have a saying here in Denmark, that 'if you are not left-leaning while young you have no heart, and if you are not right-leaning when you are older you have no brain.'

Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 22, 2016, 06:41:47 pm
Ace of Base will save Sweden

(click to show/hide)

Linn was her name, if I recall correctly? Lovely, lovely girl with great voice.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 23, 2016, 10:14:10 am
Same with me. Everyone else seems to be completely toothless right now, so i will vote for DF for the very first time. When "the storm" passes, and it hopefully will in a not so distant future, there will be place for the soft touch again, but until then - harsh times call for harsh measures and treatment.

Well, by Draconian integration laws i mean sending people back to where they came from for the mildest criminal offenses, for being unemplyed and for not learning the language. No excuses, no second chances, no long and expensive cases in court and whatnot. A very narrow and strict integration course.

it doesn't look like something easy to do...
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on March 23, 2016, 10:30:48 am
He isn't the only one. SJWs and immigrants are two things that have seriously disillusioned a lot of people. Trump's popularity is the result of that same disillusionment.

Looks more like replacing one illusion with another to me.

Also not speaking of angantyr, but everywhere it is the people that have the least contact to immigrants who are most fierce opponents of immigration.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 23, 2016, 10:56:30 am
Maybe some places in Poland and eastern Germany, but I can speak from experience that here everyone is cuddled with humanistic principles and a severe welfare state to the extent that anti-immigration sentiments are generally something you find among people or families of people who've had bad experiences with migrants - and usually more than once - being assaulted, robbed, grown up in Muslim-dominated areas and seen how that works out, worked in schools, police, youth clubs or social services, hospitals, rape victims.
Other people with little personal contact are people who simply just care about cultural or social cohesion, people who've seen their cities change beyond recognition, people who look at crime statistics. And a main body, like in eastern Germany from my impression, people who've seen the values popular Sunni Islam stands for and rejects them, and seen how badly integrated the Muslims have been in western Germany and France and England, more colonists than new citizens.

But please, let us again distinguish between immigration and mass-immigration, and let us again distinguish between immigration and Muslim immigration.

In 2005 9.1% of the children born in Germany had Muslim parents. I would love to be able to visit European cities with them retaining their original culture, just like I wouldn't want the streets of Istanbul or New Delhi to look like Berlin.

Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Molly on March 23, 2016, 11:09:07 am
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 23, 2016, 04:24:23 pm
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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on March 23, 2016, 05:08:55 pm
I think Xant is trying to tell us something... Not sure what though.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on March 23, 2016, 06:13:31 pm
Yeah really Xant, tell us why are you posting this. Because is shows that fascists are using the same shit argument since almost 100 years or because it shows that Hitler already told us the truth back then?


Maybe some places in Poland and eastern Germany, but I can speak from experience that here everyone is cuddled with humanistic principles and a severe welfare state to the extent that anti-immigration sentiments are generally something you find among people or families of people who've had bad experiences with migrants - and usually more than once - being assaulted, robbed, grown up in Muslim-dominated areas and seen how that works out, worked in schools, police, youth clubs or social services, hospitals, rape victims.
Other people with little personal contact are people who simply just care about cultural or social cohesion, people who've seen their cities change beyond recognition, people who look at crime statistics. And a main body, like in eastern Germany from my impression, people who've seen the values popular Sunni Islam stands for and rejects them, and seen how badly integrated the Muslims have been in western Germany and France and England, more colonists than new citizens.

My experience here is almost completely the opposite. Most people who grew up in NRW or Berlin with lots Immigrants around are more immigrant-friendly, while many people who grew up in some village or in Sachsen and never had any contact with immigrants are strongly against immigration or are straight fascists.
And what do you mean they seen how badly Muslims have been integrated? On youtube or what like in the videos you posted?
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 23, 2016, 06:48:37 pm
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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Sir_Hans on March 23, 2016, 08:25:29 pm
Yeah and the 60 Minutes crew escape and leave him to face the Somalis by himself.

Right? I was thinking same thing... a couple locals... guy who gets punched and the scooter hero go to help out the tv crew, and then the TV crew just bounces as soon as they show up.

Wouldn't be surprised if both those fellows got jumped/mugged once the cameras were gone.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 23, 2016, 08:32:47 pm
Ha, I was right, fu guys!

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I wonder how it looks in Norway, Thomek - can check just out of curiosity?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and now a complete change of  issues scale:

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and now the political beliefs map:

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right wing conservatives
center
left
the center-right
christian democrats
separatist movements
kudystan
views unspecified

but I agree with Angantyr here - it's hard to say what is left and what is right anymore...
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on March 23, 2016, 08:44:48 pm
What are you talking about, I lived in Lodz, Poland for 7 years, and still do (when im not in Belfast).

I meant, your point of view is well known and very negative about Eastern, yet it is an immigrant point of view, you werent born from there, so when someone who is born here and tells about it, maybe you can learn from that. The only interesting thing about that thread for me is reading you and Harpag exchange point of view and seeing if you can come to a middle ground so dont be surprised!
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Turkhammer on March 23, 2016, 08:44:51 pm
It's not really a coincidence that Belgium and France have high concentrations of Muslim immigrants of Middle Eastern or North African origins and that attacks took place there and the fact that the most wanted man in Europe from the Paris attacks was able to hide in the Molenbeek area for months and eventually turned up a few hundred meters from his family home. 
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 23, 2016, 08:58:30 pm
This is too good not to post:

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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 23, 2016, 09:05:09 pm
Ha, I was right, fu guys!

(click to show/hide)

Nah, that's only because women in Poland don't report about being victims of physical or sexual assaults. According to offical/criminal statistics we have very low number of rape incidents, which is totally untrue according to unofficial statistics. Influence of church and "traditional" family model (what happens in family stays in family) have sth to do with it, I guess.

We are brought up with a sense of respect for women. Some of us have even ridiculous behavior like kissing a woman's hand in greeting,

appearances are still preserved...

Those who do that are often the same people who say that "you can not rape a prostitue, ha ha ha!!" when one of his political mates is accused of raping the prostitute. Or those who say "cast the first stone if you never took advantage of drunk woman, hi hi hi!". Hardly a sign of respect for women, don't you think.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 23, 2016, 09:12:24 pm
I meant, your point of view is well known and very negative about Eastern, yet it is an immigrant point of view, you werent born from there, so when someone who is born here and tells about it, maybe you can learn from that. The only interesting thing about that thread for me is reading you and Harpag exchange point of view and seeing if you can come to a middle ground so dont be surprised!

Thomek is no longer  Norwegian for me, too many years in bloooody Lodz  :wink:

@Falka, you are a professional skeptic, I'm incorrigible romantic  :wink:

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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 23, 2016, 10:12:00 pm
I consider myself a realist, but in philosophical terms, I'm what's called a pessimist.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: BlindGuy on March 23, 2016, 10:13:12 pm
You have to consider that Vietnamese moving to Poland are pretty smart: its no secret that Poland is relatively right wing and racist, so if you wanna emigrate there you quietly move in, quietly get a job, and quietly get on with life. You dont start shit or the backlash will be brutal. Germans need to get their shit together. England, Sweden, many other places also: These kids wont listen in school so they dont have an accurate picture of how Europeans are historically: we want to do our thing and not be fucked with. You throw your weight, we move a bit, but push too far and we fuck your shit up. No part of the world has surpassed the West.

We nuked Japan. We, the west, dropped 2 nuclear weapons on an enemy state. Noone else has done that. The house of Othman ran rampant over the Byzantine empire and the west barely did shit. But then they fucked up when they came into mainland Europe and thought it would be the same. It wasn't. We mounted the largest cavalry charge in all of recorded history and fucked them up.

I'm scared that these fucking scumbags will keep making our society worse, and we are gonna react the way we always do. With ultra violence. Historically we haven't been bested. Even Spain: under the Caliphates, Al-Andalus was a great place to live, but we couldn't let them keep it and even if it took 600 years we fucked them up and took it back.

I'm not defending violence, or promoting it, but we have to look at the history of the West: when we are pushed too far we are even polite enough to say: HERE is the line. You are warned, push once more and we WILL stop you. We fucking do it to each other also. Look at WWI: England was tired of Imperialist Germany. They didn't want Germany having Belgium: 1/ they were our allies and we had sworn to protect them. 2/ Germany having Belgium ports was a real threat to England. So England said: if you fuck with Belgium we WILL fuck you up. And Germany LOL'ed and marched thru Belgium into France. Less than a day passed before England declared war on Germany. In Europe we have a limit.

Im so sad that we have worked so hard in Europe. Say what you like about the EU but we have had the longest peace in Europe since EVER. We welcome others into our countries with open arms, give them houses and free education, and they cant even control their kids. Slowly we creep to the right wing again, because its the natural way to feel. Next thing you know these same immigrants who were happy to throw shit at reporters, act like they have their own rules and shit, will be the same ones crying for news cameras to come and see how they are being incarcerated in camps and treated like shit. But noone will come then, because why would you try to help people that have violently rejected you?

TL:DR

If they dont stop fucking around, it will be on them, historically we have fucked over everyone who wont cooperate and the reality of how well we defend ourselves in Europe will not be pleasant or pretty.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 23, 2016, 10:30:22 pm
how Europeans are historically: we want to do our thing and not be fucked with. You throw your weight, we move a bit, but push too far and we fuck your shit up.

There's some truth in it. You look at Molly and think he's nice, friendly guy who wouldn't harm a fly. But if you consider that not so long ago his own grandfather killed no less than 6 milion jews... The devil inside of him may be hidden deep, but he's right there, waiting to awake and strike down with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy his brothers.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on March 23, 2016, 11:01:36 pm
... strike down with great vengeance and furious anger ...

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One of my favorite scenes in that movie
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 23, 2016, 11:17:52 pm
You look at Molly and think he's nice, friendly guy who wouldn't harm a fly. But if you consider that not so long ago his own grandfather killed no less than 6 milion jews... The devil inside of him may be hidden deep, but he's right there, waiting to awake and strike down with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy his brothers.

he is pessimist, always look on the bright side of life


 :wink:
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: LordBerenger on March 24, 2016, 12:52:38 am
Instead of having Xant, Grytviken, Angantyr, Oberyn & others constantly create new threads about refugees (muslims in particular) why not just create a ''MUSLIM TERRORIST SCUM MEGATHREAD'' ?
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Thomek on March 24, 2016, 01:47:33 am
I meant, your point of view is well known and very negative about Eastern, yet it is an immigrant point of view, you werent born from there, so when someone who is born here and tells about it, maybe you can learn from that. The only interesting thing about that thread for me is reading you and Harpag exchange point of view and seeing if you can come to a middle ground so dont be surprised!

Seriously, I don't have a negative opinion of Russians or Ukrainians or eastern europeans in general. I fucking live here, as a Norwegiean, how stupid can I get? :D

In fact, if I was to generalize, I'd say eastern europeans are way more interesting people than most norwegians. They've experienced real resistance in their lives, they have real hopes and dreams of becoming something, and doing something with their lives. (well the ones I meet anyway, which is probably not a broad spectra of the population.) Their societies are full of opportunities for business, and is developing constantly. It's simply an interesting place to be. Culturally as well, many are really well read, and there's lots of cool stuff happening in the whole of the young generation, from art to music and cinema. My choice has more to do with finding Norway and Norwergians rather utterly predictable and boring. Probably a nice place if you are sick or old though.

Now, my problem with eastern europe, and the core of my criticism is their god-awful politicians. Who consistently use history and unresolved tensions in society cynically to their advantage, and still hasn't rid themselves of extremely corrupt habits. It progressively gets worse the more east you go.. And somehow, the politicians have managed to brainwash large parts of the populations into thinking that criticism of their system is some kind of attack on the people as a whole. Hence people go ballistic.

It's just sad really..

@Harpag and rape stats etc..

Stats like these are notoriously unreliable. Some places classifies all kinds of stuff as rape, aka sweden and Assange, others have underreporting because of cultural reasons. IDK how it is in Poland tbh, but theres lots of drinking going for sure! :D About Polish/Lodz police i have very good opinion. But they do give the aura of dealing mostly with streetcrime or "classical" crimes.

Anyway, from experience I can say that I'm pretty sure women have to fight harder to gain respect in Poland than in Norway. I mean there's a reason why Polish mothers are so damn though no? :D
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Molly on March 24, 2016, 09:43:31 am
There's some truth in it. You look at Molly and think he's nice, friendly guy who wouldn't harm a fly. But if you consider that not so long ago his own grandfather killed no less than 6 milion jews... The devil inside of him may be hidden deep, but he's right there, waiting to awake and strike down with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy his brothers.
wtf?!  :shock:
...not cool.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on March 24, 2016, 09:57:29 am
You have to consider that Vietnamese moving to Poland are pretty smart: its no secret that Poland is relatively right wing and racist, so if you wanna emigrate there you quietly move in, quietly get a job, and quietly get on with life. You dont start shit or the backlash will be brutal. Germans need to get their shit together. England, Sweden, many other places also: These kids wont listen in school so they dont have an accurate picture of how Europeans are historically: we want to do our thing and not be fucked with. You throw your weight, we move a bit, but push too far and we fuck your shit up. No part of the world has surpassed the West.

We nuked Japan. We, the west, dropped 2 nuclear weapons on an enemy state. Noone else has done that. The house of Othman ran rampant over the Byzantine empire and the west barely did shit. But then they fucked up when they came into mainland Europe and thought it would be the same. It wasn't. We mounted the largest cavalry charge in all of recorded history and fucked them up.

I'm scared that these fucking scumbags will keep making our society worse, and we are gonna react the way we always do. With ultra violence. Historically we haven't been bested. Even Spain: under the Caliphates, Al-Andalus was a great place to live, but we couldn't let them keep it and even if it took 600 years we fucked them up and took it back.

I'm not defending violence, or promoting it, but we have to look at the history of the West: when we are pushed too far we are even polite enough to say: HERE is the line. You are warned, push once more and we WILL stop you. We fucking do it to each other also. Look at WWI: England was tired of Imperialist Germany. They didn't want Germany having Belgium: 1/ they were our allies and we had sworn to protect them. 2/ Germany having Belgium ports was a real threat to England. So England said: if you fuck with Belgium we WILL fuck you up. And Germany LOL'ed and marched thru Belgium into France. Less than a day passed before England declared war on Germany. In Europe we have a limit.

Im so sad that we have worked so hard in Europe. Say what you like about the EU but we have had the longest peace in Europe since EVER. We welcome others into our countries with open arms, give them houses and free education, and they cant even control their kids. Slowly we creep to the right wing again, because its the natural way to feel. Next thing you know these same immigrants who were happy to throw shit at reporters, act like they have their own rules and shit, will be the same ones crying for news cameras to come and see how they are being incarcerated in camps and treated like shit. But noone will come then, because why would you try to help people that have violently rejected you?

TL:DR

If they dont stop fucking around, it will be on them, historically we have fucked over everyone who wont cooperate and the reality of how well we defend ourselves in Europe will not be pleasant or pretty.

omfg, so much shit in one post. You really think what makes Europe special is that we can hit back harder than everyone else?
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 24, 2016, 10:07:26 am
omfg, so much shit in one post. You really think what makes Europe special is that we can hit back harder than everyone else?

To be honest I though it's meant  to be a joke, not some serious right wing pride and glory stuff, and I found it funny. But dunno, maybe it's just me  :wink:

wtf?!  :shock:
...not cool.

Oh, don't be like that, you hurt me  :wink:
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Kafein on March 24, 2016, 10:12:51 am
If there was a publicly visible figurehead behind these attacks, they'd be dead already. If this was a single unified political entity such as a kingdom, country or empire (like in many of your examples) formally attacking civilians in Europe that place would already be a crater.

Actually that place exists, it's Daech territory, that apparently only the Russians have the balls to bomb into the dark ages because weewee civilians.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Kafein on March 24, 2016, 01:21:06 pm
Oh in case you doubted that, I wasn't implying we should bomb civilians. It just seems that EU politicians seem reluctant to increase war efforts. You were talking about a target for our overwhelmingly superior armies, well there it is. The territorial status of the region doesn't really matter. Hell, here in Belgium we can declare war and send bombers with an interim government in resignation. I'm afraid the current hip thing to do is to crank up the domestic "security" measures instead, and there are definitely parts of that which I don't quite like.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 24, 2016, 04:04:06 pm
Haha Thomek - Polish mothers are so damn though and theres lots of drinking but no idea what was first - chicken or the egg?  :D
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 24, 2016, 04:07:07 pm
wtf?!  :shock:
...not cool.
Because you can't HANDLE THE TRUTH?
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Turkhammer on March 24, 2016, 04:22:10 pm
Actually that place exists, it's Daech territory, that apparently only the Russians have the balls to bomb into the dark ages because weewee civilians.

Lol do you really believe that?  The Russians spent more bombs and time bombing Assad regime opponents OTHER than ISIS than they did ISIS.  They don't care about Daesh or ISIS, they just want to keep Assad propped up.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on March 24, 2016, 04:29:35 pm
We nuked Japan. We, the west, dropped 2 nuclear weapons on an enemy state. Noone else has done that.

USA nuked Japan, not Europe, and I'm still waiting, like a lot of people out there, for the moment where the current US president will publically apologise for this civilian massacre abomination.

The house of Othman ran rampant over the Byzantine empire and the west barely did shit. But then they fucked up when they came into mainland Europe and thought it would be the same. It wasn't. We mounted the largest cavalry charge in all of recorded history and fucked them up.

Even Spain: under the Caliphates, Al-Andalus was a great place to live, but we couldn't let them keep it and even if it took 600 years we fucked them up and took it back.

Mighty European League let all the Balkans go to shit and Hungary/Austria half annexed before they miraculously began to turn the tide, same as with Hispania. There was hundreds years of Mighty European countries sucking Ottoman's/Caliphate dick as vassals or as dominated neighbours, and business ran as usual  (killing each others for lands).
You are naive if you think European Union is a natural state of things and that we somehow are superior to others because reasons. Think Roman Empire.



Anyway I dont see the comparison between countries at wars and immigration problems. Too many Europa Universalis will fuck you in the head I guess.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 24, 2016, 04:42:05 pm
USA nuked Japan, not Europe, and I'm still waiting, like a lot of people out there, for the moment where the current US president will publically apologise for this civilian massacre a bomination.

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 24, 2016, 04:43:58 pm
USA nuked Japan, not Europe, and I'm still waiting, like a lot of people out there, for the moment where the current US president will publically apologise for this civilian massacre abomination.
Oh, come now, nothing wrong with killing the occasional civilian or two during war time.

Quote
You are naive if you think European Union is a natural state of things and that we somehow are superior to others because reasons. Think Roman Empire.
Roman Empire, the precursor of the European Union. Just proving the might of Europe.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on March 24, 2016, 06:20:47 pm
And yes, you can carpet-bomb civilians and hope that some of the bombs hit baddies. Somehow it doesn't feel the same as when the UK and Germany bombed the shit out of each other as this was intended to cripple airfields, divert heavy industry towards air defence, and push the public in a more 'anti-war' direction to put pressure on their respective governments. The German Blitz was designed to break the spirit of an already fragile elected government without having to commit the resources to a sea/land invasion. The UK retaliation was to create a 2nd front without yet committing the resources to a sea/land invasion. And even this is something history has mixed feelings about.
The carpet bombing of Germany was made in the hope that it would alienate the population toward the chocolate chip cookies, it wasn't successful. Supplementary reason not to carpet bomb civilian if the humanitarian cause wasn't enough.

Roman Empire, the precursor of the European Union. Just proving the might of Europe.
And germany once again will contribute to its downfall by barbaric invasion  :lol:
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Grytviken on March 24, 2016, 06:47:57 pm
USA nuked Japan, not Europe, and I'm still waiting, like a lot of people out there, for the moment where the current US president will publically apologise for this civilian massacre abomination.

Japan murdered 4 million more civilians than albert in WW2. Japan also refused Obama's apology, they know they were responsible for the consequences. Again there was no realistic alternative to dropping the bombs, any approach to Japan was met with the equivalent of today's suicide bombers, they were sending out suicide squads of planes to kamikaze our warships. They weren't going to surrender any other way. They never gave a formal declaration of war, and declined all attempts at diplomacy to end the war by other means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_sunk_by_the_Imperial_Japanese_Navy
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 24, 2016, 07:17:10 pm
Japan murdered 4 million more civilians than albert in WW2.
God damn Albert.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: LordBerenger on March 24, 2016, 07:34:06 pm
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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Grytviken on March 24, 2016, 07:47:08 pm
The carpet bombing of Germany was made in the hope that it would alienate the population toward the chocolate chip cookies, it wasn't successful. Supplementary reason not to carpet bomb civilian if the humanitarian cause wasn't enough.
And germany once again will contribute to its downfall by barbaric invasion  :lol:

It did work though it paralyzed Germany's ability to wage war, Germany eventually surrendered and  there were many attempts beforehand to overthrow the government and put someone with common-sense in charge. The Germans were the first to employ this cowardly tactic of diverting massive amounts of air power to prioritize killing civilians over military targets.  The Polish, Czechs, French, Dutch, Greeks, Belgians and Norwegians wouldn't have given up so prematurely if it weren't for these cowardly tactics, they surrendered their military personnel to spare civilian lives. They would have never enjoyed such an easy conquest of Europe without employing these tactics on their enemies.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 24, 2016, 08:36:54 pm
Because you can't HANDLE THE TRUTH?

That's why. It was simply rude.

...Czechs...

I don't think so, but it's better to ask Beau  :wink:
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 24, 2016, 09:02:52 pm
It did work though it paralyzed Germany's ability to wage war, Germany eventually surrendered and  there were many attempts beforehand to overthrow the government and put someone with common-sense in charge. The Germans were the first to employ this cowardly tactic of diverting massive amounts of air power to prioritize killing civilians over military targets.  The Polish, Czechs, French, Dutch, Greeks, Belgians and Norwegians wouldn't have given up so prematurely if it weren't for these cowardly tactics, they surrendered their military personnel to spare civilian lives. They would have never enjoyed such an easy conquest of Europe without employing these tactics on their enemies.
"Cowardly tactics." Uh huh. If it worked, it's a good tactic. There is nothing inherently more """cowardly""" about bombing civilians than bombing soldiers.

"""Cowardly""" because it's a retarded term to use when talking about strategy in wars. You think it takes the leaders any bravery to order other people to die, whether it's civilians or soldiers? You think anyone cares about what is "cowardly" in a war, least of all the people fighting? It's not a game, it's war.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Harpag on March 25, 2016, 11:58:55 am
"Cowardly tactics." Uh huh. If it worked, it's a good tactic. There is nothing inherently more """cowardly""" about bombing civilians than bombing soldiers.

"""Cowardly""" because it's a retarded term to use when talking about strategy in wars. You think it takes the leaders any bravery to order other people to die, whether it's civilians or soldiers? You think anyone cares about what is "cowardly" in a war, least of all the people fighting? It's not a game, it's war.

I see that you are very heroic and civilized  :rolleyes:  every attack on unarmed civilians is a cowardly you bloody freak!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes



Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 25, 2016, 12:27:14 pm
I see that you are very heroic and civilized  :rolleyes:  every attack on unarmed civilians is a cowardly you bloody freak!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_crimes
I see that you're very childlike and naïve. Real life isn't a disney tale buddy, there's nothing "heroic" about going to war. And "civilized" is an empty word that means nothing.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on March 25, 2016, 12:40:30 pm
"Cowardly tactics." Uh huh. If it worked, it's a good tactic. There is nothing inherently more """cowardly""" about bombing civilians than bombing soldiers.

"""Cowardly""" because it's a retarded term to use when talking about strategy in wars. You think it takes the leaders any bravery to order other people to die, whether it's civilians or soldiers? You think anyone cares about what is "cowardly" in a war, least of all the people fighting? It's not a game, it's war.


That is a terrorist act, plain and simple.
If you cannot beat someone's military, you kill unarmed civilians.

If you really believe the shit that pours out of your mouth, never again criticize terrorists's actions.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on March 25, 2016, 01:48:48 pm
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 25, 2016, 02:10:04 pm

That is a terrorist act, plain and simple.
If you cannot beat someone's military, you kill unarmed civilians.

If you really believe the shit that pours out of your mouth, never again criticize terrorists's actions.
No, it's something called "total war", simpleton.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 25, 2016, 02:14:29 pm
If you really believe the shit that pours out of your mouth, never again criticize terrorists's actions.

Insurgents who have fought for freedom of my country in XIX century and who are viewed as heroes, these days would be terrorists. But there're different kinds of terrorists; those who fight for their country, against occupants. And those who attack Paris and Brussels, because of... what exactly? Because they don't like Belgians?
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on March 25, 2016, 02:23:57 pm
No, it's something called "total war", simpleton.

Call it anything you want, as long as you purposedfully aim for civilians targets (not collateral damage), it is an act of terrorism in the definition of today.
Wars may not be as ritualistic as 2 thousands years ago or even 50 years ago, but today this is how it works, caveboy.
The level of bullshit needed to explain to the world that "total war" acts are needed is just propaganda and will stay like that until war evolves in the "total war is okay" direction. You defend the point of view that it is acceptable, I do not, end of the story.


Insurgents who have fought for freedom of my country in XIX century and who are viewed as heroes, these days would be terrorists. But there're different kinds of terrorists; those who fight for their country, against occupants. And those who attack Paris and Brussels, because of... what exactly? Because they don't like Belgians?

Insurgents who deliberately killed random civilians of an enemy country are terrorists IMO. They can bomb railroads, facilities, governmental offices and attack military targets, and still kill innocent civilians, but thats already closer to collateral than aiming for the killing of the people itself, like Hiroshima and terrorists suicide bombing today.

Those who attack Paris and Brussels, I dont presume to know whats their end goal. Why they do it is easy to understand though, they are fighters of countries that are at war with the West. The West is so powerful that they cant win via conventional warfare, so they go the Xant way and aim for war exhaustion via killing of civilians.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Yeldur on March 25, 2016, 02:24:44 pm
fart
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 25, 2016, 03:05:53 pm
Call it anything you want, as long as you purposedfully aim for civilians targets (not collateral damage), it is an act of terrorism in the definition of today.
Wars may not be as ritualistic as 2 thousands years ago or even 50 years ago, but today this is how it works, caveboy.
It's literally the definition, it's not something "I" call it, it's what total war is. No one cares what you think the definition of terrorism is. Reality doesn't change by how someone chooses to define words. If you weren't so dumb, you'd understand that the only reason total war isn't how things are done right now is because all the recent wars have been extremely asymmetric. You can, of course (and no doubt will), continue living in your little bubble and thinking humanity has evolved greatly in one generation, but you'd be wrong. Again, definitions mean absolutely nothing and there is no ultimate arbitrator of moral justice.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Xant on March 26, 2016, 06:51:36 am
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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Grytviken on March 26, 2016, 07:12:18 am
Insurgents who deliberately killed random civilians of an enemy country are terrorists IMO. They can bomb railroads, facilities, governmental offices and attack military targets, and still kill innocent civilians, but thats already closer to collateral than aiming for the killing of the people itself, like Hiroshima and terrorists suicide bombing today.

Hiroshima was the headquarters of the Japanese 59th Army, they had 40,000 troops there and lot's of war industry. Over 5 million warning leaflets were dropped in Hiroshima and Nagisaki before the bombing took place, as well in every other city that was bombed.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: dagu807 on March 26, 2016, 08:30:01 pm
SVERIGE
JA
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 30, 2016, 09:54:43 pm
And what do you mean they seen how badly Muslims have been integrated? On youtube or what like in the videos you posted?
What's so wrong about the videos? A news story from ZDF and another citing Spiegel TV? You don't think teachers and police officers are good enough sources?

Two articles citing mainstream sources:

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6264/no-go-zones-germany
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7470/germany-migrants-crime

Any who follow press releases on a regular basis and/or reads crime statistics will know of the problems posed by third world mass-immigration. I was not aware anyone, not even the most casual observers, hadn't yet acknowledged these problems, and I was under the impression what separated people on the issue were the question of how much it bothered them. Particularly after the New Year's Eve assaults which should've awoken even the most comatose from their slumber.

And not only in regards to crime rates of course, identity politics, parallel societies, religious fanaticism, terror, medieval doctrines like the subjugation of women, violence against children, hate of gays and Jews as have been revealed to be preached in Mosques around the UK and Europe (and openly practiced in many Muslim majority countries around the world), are major concerns for a lot of people aswell. And in the Nordic welfare states the pressure put on social services, where half of the Muslim men don't work even in the third generation and many of the Muslim women are not allowed to work due to them not being allowed to be near other men by their husbands. Recently a Danish tv station infiltrated a mosque and demonstrated how imams told members of the community how to best milk the Danish tax payers through social services, even by lying.



(click to show/hide)
I don't think John Cleese 'believe that 40 years ago everyone in London had pure anglo-saxon genes, went around wearing top-hats, drinking tea, eating crumpets and talking about cricket.'
Rather I think he is talking about facts like the 2011 census demonstrating that people who identify as white British are now a minority in England's capital. These rapid changes can be seen and felt by people all over the country (and in Europe), are not wanted by a majority of UK citizens (57% want status quo or fewer immigrants according to a BBC survey) and are rejected not only due to 'phobias' or 'racism' but for a lot of people on perfectly rational grounds.

No need for strawmen or hyperbole, no one is talking about cultural stagnation; only uncontrolled immigration. The immigration has been happening far too fast for anyone to keep up, police and politicians themselves had admitted so much. Conservatism deals with conserving what's good, not all progress is inherently good, certain cultural traits are good, certain institutions are good, certain ideas are good, multi-culture has failed, even according to European leaders.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Leshma on March 31, 2016, 12:31:48 am
There's some truth in it. You look at Molly and think he's nice, friendly guy who wouldn't harm a fly. But if you consider that not so long ago his own grandfather killed no less than 6 milion jews... The devil inside of him may be hidden deep, but he's right there, waiting to awake and strike down with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy his brothers.

Everyone has the devil inside him. It's about controlling it, not denying the truth. But when it comes to Germans, I really do believe most of them would skin us alive if we come to the point where their standard of living is threatened. Happened in the past, will happen again. Is only natural, human life is a struggle. Actually, those people who live in "shitty" way are actually the nicest. You can't be nice and prosperous. Most of us are eating animals we kill in huge numbers on daily basis. Just because we built a system that obfuscates the ugly truth about our good life doesn't mean we are saints who wouldn't hurt an ant. That clean laundry doesn't wash itself ya know, someone has to do it and that someone is doing it for our sake...

So many books and other works of art covered this topic. It is universal truth by now.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on March 31, 2016, 01:22:33 am
Only a minority pose problem, and the permanent solution is forbidding everyone to immigrate, even the brave souls ready to work for a new country.
The non-permanent solutions are costy and some inapplicable, like special laws against immigrants/new citizens.
How do you stop people fleeing from their country? Except building a wall, I dont see, and we already have aplenty :wink:
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Utrakil on March 31, 2016, 10:04:32 pm
But when it comes to Germans, I really do believe most of them would skin us alive if we come to the point where their standard of living is threatened. Happened in the past, will happen again.

Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on March 31, 2016, 10:16:20 pm
Everyone has the devil inside him.
Just because we built a system that obfuscates the ugly truth about our good life doesn't mean we are saints who wouldn't hurt an ant.

Nah, I'm harmless, unable to harm other human being in any way.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on March 31, 2016, 10:31:52 pm
What a grandiose strawman. Genuinely made my stomach churn.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Leshma on March 31, 2016, 10:37:21 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMQkV5cTuoY

You should make a new thread with that as your OP :lol:

If that video doesn't summon Oberyn, nothing will. Eagerly awaiting to see what dagu and Angantyr think of it. And Kafein/Xant of course...

Angantyr


Next please...
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Falka on April 03, 2016, 06:33:31 pm
(click to show/hide)

Quote
if you love this video you have no allegiance to your blood and soil. Your ancestors didn't fight at the Somme or at Stalingrad to have Germany invaded by non-Whites. Until you hoist your flag with pride,love your history and traditions, then you are a lemming.

Comments under this video are cute  :wink:
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Leshma on April 03, 2016, 07:01:52 pm
Dat comments section is like cRPG forums. Someone should invite 15k neonazis to register and give their opinion on the matters of migration, Islam and terrorism.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on April 03, 2016, 08:27:12 pm
just shoot them fuckers, nobody will care, new ones will come
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on April 15, 2016, 06:09:44 pm
Two stories from Luton, England.


Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on April 21, 2016, 06:35:35 pm
Remember the rhetoric of how we would not only be culturally enriched but also economically strengthened by the mass import of third world Muslim immigration? New numbers are just in from the Danish state department; 2% of asylum seekers are ready for the highly specialized, knowledge-based Nordic job market. That's 98% not ready. Combine that with over 50% of Muslim immigrants still outside the workforce in the third generation and a stable polling history from across Europe demonstrating that grandchildren of Muslim immigrants are even more radical in their political Islam/religious fundamentalism, ie. at directs odds with the values of the native culture, than are their grandparents in the first generation and we have a veritable explosive device under the Nordic welfare model.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on April 21, 2016, 07:06:56 pm
2% of asylum seekers are ready for the highly specialized, knowledge-based Nordic job market. That's 98% not ready.

"highly specialized, knowledge-based" doesnt encompasses 100% of the jobs.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on April 21, 2016, 07:26:41 pm
It's a generalization. Different societies have different labour needs.

edit: I think I get how you read that wrong now. What I meant is that only 2% is ready for the job market whatsoever.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Westwood on April 21, 2016, 08:40:44 pm
Warning: Star-Spangled opinion below

Anti-immigrant rhetoric in America is very disturbing to me. Illegal immigrants commit proportionally less crime than US citizens (which makes sense because they don't want that sweet ICE hammer to come down if they get caught - kind of obvious actually). Low-wage immigrant labourers are vital to the economies of agricultural states, like the Eastern half of mine :^). Also, if you can't compete with someone who has only recently arrived in America and doesn't even speak English, then you did not deserve your job.

Very unfortunately, people who are

A. uneducated, and

B. employed in skill-less labour jobs (or on the dole lmao) because they're uneducated,

can and do vote, in droves, for fascists like Trump/Sanders who promise to bring back 17th century protectionism and nativism (less so the nativism in Bernie's case, it's more veiled). A very large and reliable voting bloc for this sort of policy is found in the elderly.

This is tragically amusing, because a massive amount of new immigrants to the US are NEEDED to keep the Social Security fund (BIGGEST line item on the US budget), that pays for their sad existence, solvent. At the same time that elderly voters back people against entitlement reform, they back people against immigration (and more recently people in favor of the Feds rounding up people, stealing their money, and sending them back to their country of origin). It's a double whammy of self-serving ignorance. Every paycheck I get, money is withheld for Social Security, on the premise that everyone pays into the system and then they get the money when they retire. Nobody my age will ever see any of that money.

I understand that the European issue of mass-immigration and refugee/migrants is entirely different from this. Even opposite, they need to keep immigrants out to retain their disgusting welfare states. Hopefully this (as well as recent events) motivates them to participate in solving the myriad problems of the Middle East in real ways (Germany is doing good work arming the Iraqi Kurds, others by participating in our bombing campaign). It terrifies me that America will need another major attack on its own soil (and a new, not-foreign-policy-inept President -- good luck with current candidates) to find that motivation to actually commit. "The refugee crisis" or "mass-immigration" will never be solved so long as the Middle East isn't solved.

As for our bombing of Japan:

-Nagasaki and Hiroshima were targeted for their military-industrial significance

-Leaflets were dropped warning of the imminent bombing for a long period of time

-The bombings killed ~100k-200k (the majority being civilians, which is a horrible tragedy), rather than the millions (low estimation for America alone in invasion scenario was 5mil.) of casualties on both sides which would have resulted from an invasion of mainland Japan (Hell of a lot more civilians too, even discounting embargo/collateral damage, they were ordered to commit ritual suicide if the allies overran the Imperial Army, and this happened on other islands)

-Russia invaded Manchukuo, and would have also invaded mainland Japan with the other Allies had the war not ended (would there be an East Japan and West Japan still today? Would that be better? How would this have reshaped the Cold War?)


TLDR:
1. America needs immigrants and populists are the Devil
2. Western powers need to give Daesh run in order to solve crisis
3. Bombing Japan was far better than the alternative
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Asheram on April 21, 2016, 08:53:49 pm
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Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on April 21, 2016, 09:03:37 pm
edit: I think I get how you read that wrong now. What I meant is that only 2% is ready for the job market whatsoever.


Then I wonder what kind of pre-requisites the nordic job market got.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 21, 2016, 09:53:02 pm

Then I wonder what kind of pre-requisites the nordic job market got.

It's probably something IT related. Or language. I have yet to meet someone who got hired without knowing Danish :) May be on some high level jobs you can get away with English, but you will not be allowed to clean toilets on a train station at night, without speaking Danish.
And any more or less qualified job is out of the question, if you do not have a Danish paper confirming your qualification. I am not talking about working as a doctor or a pilot, i am talking about being a carpenter or a smith.
Personally i like this system, as it insures close to the same level of quality, regardless of who you are hiring.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Butan on April 21, 2016, 10:38:16 pm
Personally i like this system, as it insures close to the same level of quality, regardless of who you are hiring.

Ironically, me too, but things are... different in reality, from what I've seen.

I think 2% seems like an exaggeration, even if every rules you described were enforced.
Title: Re: #dream is alive
Post by: Angantyr on April 22, 2016, 03:12:35 pm
Foreign educations are accepted of course, but only if they live up to Northwestern European standards, which they rarely do, among those 2% are people with remotely acceptable formal educations.

Reasons for the 98% can include lack of motivation, lack of sociability, cultural differences, no education or sub-par education, no Danish yet, no English (as Armpit says for high level jobs but also for example shop clerks in the bigger cities), trauma, sickness, age, handicap, criminality etc. the reaons can be many. Education and language being the foremost, I would guess, however language courses are free and mandatory. Remember, we are talking about asylum seekers here, not just citizens with an immigrant background (why I posted separate statistics for those).

And yes, as Armpit also writes, our strong labour unions have secured high standards of qualified and well-paid work, like the medieval trade guilds of old which they are a continuation of.