#dream is alive

[Falka]

Ha, I was right, fu guys!

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Nah, that's only because women in Poland don't report about being victims of physical or sexual assaults. According to offical/criminal statistics we have very low number of rape incidents, which is totally untrue according to unofficial statistics. Influence of church and "traditional" family model (what happens in family stays in family) have sth to do with it, I guess.

We are brought up with a sense of respect for women. Some of us have even ridiculous behavior like kissing a woman's hand in greeting,

appearances are still preserved...

Those who do that are often the same people who say that "you can not rape a prostitue, ha ha ha!!" when one of his political mates is accused of raping the prostitute. Or those who say "cast the first stone if you never took advantage of drunk woman, hi hi hi!". Hardly a sign of respect for women, don't you think.

[Harpag]

I meant, your point of view is well known and very negative about Eastern, yet it is an immigrant point of view, you werent born from there, so when someone who is born here and tells about it, maybe you can learn from that. The only interesting thing about that thread for me is reading you and Harpag exchange point of view and seeing if you can come to a middle ground so dont be surprised!

Thomek is no longer  Norwegian for me, too many years in bloooody Lodz 

@Falka, you are a professional skeptic, I'm incorrigible romantic 

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[Falka]

I consider myself a realist, but in philosophical terms, I'm what's called a pessimist.

[BlindGuy]

You have to consider that Vietnamese moving to Poland are pretty smart: its no secret that Poland is relatively right wing and racist, so if you wanna emigrate there you quietly move in, quietly get a job, and quietly get on with life. You dont start shit or the backlash will be brutal. Germans need to get their shit together. England, Sweden, many other places also: These kids wont listen in school so they dont have an accurate picture of how Europeans are historically: we want to do our thing and not be fucked with. You throw your weight, we move a bit, but push too far and we fuck your shit up. No part of the world has surpassed the West.

We nuked Japan. We, the west, dropped 2 nuclear weapons on an enemy state. Noone else has done that. The house of Othman ran rampant over the Byzantine empire and the west barely did shit. But then they fucked up when they came into mainland Europe and thought it would be the same. It wasn't. We mounted the largest cavalry charge in all of recorded history and fucked them up.

I'm scared that these fucking scumbags will keep making our society worse, and we are gonna react the way we always do. With ultra violence. Historically we haven't been bested. Even Spain: under the Caliphates, Al-Andalus was a great place to live, but we couldn't let them keep it and even if it took 600 years we fucked them up and took it back.

I'm not defending violence, or promoting it, but we have to look at the history of the West: when we are pushed too far we are even polite enough to say: HERE is the line. You are warned, push once more and we WILL stop you. We fucking do it to each other also. Look at WWI: England was tired of Imperialist Germany. They didn't want Germany having Belgium: 1/ they were our allies and we had sworn to protect them. 2/ Germany having Belgium ports was a real threat to England. So England said: if you fuck with Belgium we WILL fuck you up. And Germany LOL'ed and marched thru Belgium into France. Less than a day passed before England declared war on Germany. In Europe we have a limit.

Im so sad that we have worked so hard in Europe. Say what you like about the EU but we have had the longest peace in Europe since EVER. We welcome others into our countries with open arms, give them houses and free education, and they cant even control their kids. Slowly we creep to the right wing again, because its the natural way to feel. Next thing you know these same immigrants who were happy to throw shit at reporters, act like they have their own rules and shit, will be the same ones crying for news cameras to come and see how they are being incarcerated in camps and treated like shit. But noone will come then, because why would you try to help people that have violently rejected you?

TL:DR

If they dont stop fucking around, it will be on them, historically we have fucked over everyone who wont cooperate and the reality of how well we defend ourselves in Europe will not be pleasant or pretty.

[Falka]

how Europeans are historically: we want to do our thing and not be fucked with. You throw your weight, we move a bit, but push too far and we fuck your shit up.

There's some truth in it. You look at Molly and think he's nice, friendly guy who wouldn't harm a fly. But if you consider that not so long ago his own grandfather killed no less than 6 milion jews... The devil inside of him may be hidden deep, but he's right there, waiting to awake and strike down with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy his brothers.

[Armpit_Sweat]

... strike down with great vengeance and furious anger ...

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One of my favorite scenes in that movie

[Harpag]

You look at Molly and think he's nice, friendly guy who wouldn't harm a fly. But if you consider that not so long ago his own grandfather killed no less than 6 milion jews... The devil inside of him may be hidden deep, but he's right there, waiting to awake and strike down with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy his brothers.

he is pessimist, always look on the bright side of life

 :wink:

[LordBerenger]

Instead of having Xant, Grytviken, Angantyr, Oberyn & others constantly create new threads about refugees (muslims in particular) why not just create a ''MUSLIM TERRORIST SCUM MEGATHREAD'' ?

[Thomek]

I meant, your point of view is well known and very negative about Eastern, yet it is an immigrant point of view, you werent born from there, so when someone who is born here and tells about it, maybe you can learn from that. The only interesting thing about that thread for me is reading you and Harpag exchange point of view and seeing if you can come to a middle ground so dont be surprised!

Seriously, I don't have a negative opinion of Russians or Ukrainians or eastern europeans in general. I fucking live here, as a Norwegiean, how stupid can I get?

In fact, if I was to generalize, I'd say eastern europeans are way more interesting people than most norwegians. They've experienced real resistance in their lives, they have real hopes and dreams of becoming something, and doing something with their lives. (well the ones I meet anyway, which is probably not a broad spectra of the population.) Their societies are full of opportunities for business, and is developing constantly. It's simply an interesting place to be. Culturally as well, many are really well read, and there's lots of cool stuff happening in the whole of the young generation, from art to music and cinema. My choice has more to do with finding Norway and Norwergians rather utterly predictable and boring. Probably a nice place if you are sick or old though.

Now, my problem with eastern europe, and the core of my criticism is their god-awful politicians. Who consistently use history and unresolved tensions in society cynically to their advantage, and still hasn't rid themselves of extremely corrupt habits. It progressively gets worse the more east you go.. And somehow, the politicians have managed to brainwash large parts of the populations into thinking that criticism of their system is some kind of attack on the people as a whole. Hence people go ballistic.

It's just sad really..

@Harpag and rape stats etc..

Stats like these are notoriously unreliable. Some places classifies all kinds of stuff as rape, aka sweden and Assange, others have underreporting because of cultural reasons. IDK how it is in Poland tbh, but theres lots of drinking going for sure! About Polish/Lodz police i have very good opinion. But they do give the aura of dealing mostly with streetcrime or "classical" crimes.

Anyway, from experience I can say that I'm pretty sure women have to fight harder to gain respect in Poland than in Norway. I mean there's a reason why Polish mothers are so damn though no?

[Molly]

There's some truth in it. You look at Molly and think he's nice, friendly guy who wouldn't harm a fly. But if you consider that not so long ago his own grandfather killed no less than 6 milion jews... The devil inside of him may be hidden deep, but he's right there, waiting to awake and strike down with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy his brothers.

wtf?! 
...not cool.

[The_Bloody_Nine]

You have to consider that Vietnamese moving to Poland are pretty smart: its no secret that Poland is relatively right wing and racist, so if you wanna emigrate there you quietly move in, quietly get a job, and quietly get on with life. You dont start shit or the backlash will be brutal. Germans need to get their shit together. England, Sweden, many other places also: These kids wont listen in school so they dont have an accurate picture of how Europeans are historically: we want to do our thing and not be fucked with. You throw your weight, we move a bit, but push too far and we fuck your shit up. No part of the world has surpassed the West.

We nuked Japan. We, the west, dropped 2 nuclear weapons on an enemy state. Noone else has done that. The house of Othman ran rampant over the Byzantine empire and the west barely did shit. But then they fucked up when they came into mainland Europe and thought it would be the same. It wasn't. We mounted the largest cavalry charge in all of recorded history and fucked them up.

I'm scared that these fucking scumbags will keep making our society worse, and we are gonna react the way we always do. With ultra violence. Historically we haven't been bested. Even Spain: under the Caliphates, Al-Andalus was a great place to live, but we couldn't let them keep it and even if it took 600 years we fucked them up and took it back.

I'm not defending violence, or promoting it, but we have to look at the history of the West: when we are pushed too far we are even polite enough to say: HERE is the line. You are warned, push once more and we WILL stop you. We fucking do it to each other also. Look at WWI: England was tired of Imperialist Germany. They didn't want Germany having Belgium: 1/ they were our allies and we had sworn to protect them. 2/ Germany having Belgium ports was a real threat to England. So England said: if you fuck with Belgium we WILL fuck you up. And Germany LOL'ed and marched thru Belgium into France. Less than a day passed before England declared war on Germany. In Europe we have a limit.

Im so sad that we have worked so hard in Europe. Say what you like about the EU but we have had the longest peace in Europe since EVER. We welcome others into our countries with open arms, give them houses and free education, and they cant even control their kids. Slowly we creep to the right wing again, because its the natural way to feel. Next thing you know these same immigrants who were happy to throw shit at reporters, act like they have their own rules and shit, will be the same ones crying for news cameras to come and see how they are being incarcerated in camps and treated like shit. But noone will come then, because why would you try to help people that have violently rejected you?

TL:DR

If they dont stop fucking around, it will be on them, historically we have fucked over everyone who wont cooperate and the reality of how well we defend ourselves in Europe will not be pleasant or pretty.

omfg, so much shit in one post. You really think what makes Europe special is that we can hit back harder than everyone else?

[Falka]

omfg, so much shit in one post. You really think what makes Europe special is that we can hit back harder than everyone else?

To be honest I though it's meant  to be a joke, not some serious right wing pride and glory stuff, and I found it funny. But dunno, maybe it's just me 

wtf?! 
...not cool.

Oh, don't be like that, you hurt me 

[Kafein]

If there was a publicly visible figurehead behind these attacks, they'd be dead already. If this was a single unified political entity such as a kingdom, country or empire (like in many of your examples) formally attacking civilians in Europe that place would already be a crater.

Actually that place exists, it's Daech territory, that apparently only the Russians have the balls to bomb into the dark ages because weewee civilians.

[Kafein]

Oh in case you doubted that, I wasn't implying we should bomb civilians. It just seems that EU politicians seem reluctant to increase war efforts. You were talking about a target for our overwhelmingly superior armies, well there it is. The territorial status of the region doesn't really matter. Hell, here in Belgium we can declare war and send bombers with an interim government in resignation. I'm afraid the current hip thing to do is to crank up the domestic "security" measures instead, and there are definitely parts of that which I don't quite like.

[Harpag]

Haha Thomek - Polish mothers are so damn though and theres lots of drinking but no idea what was first - chicken or the egg?