cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Ujin on December 14, 2015, 10:20:04 pm

Title: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Ujin on December 14, 2015, 10:20:04 pm
Especially archery. A x3 cataphract dies in 3-4 archer hits, don't even get me started on the less armored horses.I tried out an archer recently, it's almost too easy to dehorse people. With the amount of pewpew going on lately, we need some counters to that. Short post over, flame on.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Zergmar on December 14, 2015, 10:46:39 pm
My +3 Plated Donkey died in one hit yesterday.
I cried.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: McKli_PL on December 15, 2015, 02:09:28 am
Especially archery. A x3 cataphract dies in 3-4 archer hits, don't even get me started on the less armored horses.I tried out an archer recently, it's almost too easy to dehorse people. With the amount of pewpew going on lately, we need some counters to that. Short post over, flame on.
qq im too dumb  ->pseudo<- cav player who can't wait a little bit with a team not yolo charging protected spawn on a bad map for cav get f**** and whine on forum, why players like Musashi who is playing on 'papper' horse is so hard to focus? archer with a nodachi beach plz :lol:
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Godfredus on December 15, 2015, 02:21:52 am
Thinking of armoured horses dying to fast to archers, I dream of armoured horses having three-four times more armour and hit points and increased horsecharge, not reduced bow damage.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: POOPHAMMER on December 15, 2015, 06:43:07 am
Totally agree with this. Throwing lances/high PD archers can halve my +3 Eastern Warhorse health in 1 body shot.

These days I just use my courser because there is literally no difference in survival between it and my armoured horse from ranged.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Ujin on December 15, 2015, 08:41:15 am
qq im too dumb  ->pseudo<- cav player who can't wait a little bit with a team not yolo charging protected spawn on a bad map for cav get f**** and whine on forum, why players like Musashi who is playing on 'papper' horse is so hard to focus? archer with a nodachi beach plz :lol:
I've been a lancer for years in cRPG, tried pretty much all the horses and it's been a while since i cared about k/d and such, but i know what i'm doing and sure as hell i don't need any keyboard warrior pseudo-badass to tell me how to play it.
I also get good scores as cav most of the time, but i like taking risks more than some other cav (like Musashi), like charging 2handers and hoplites frontally, as well as fighting other cav (used to be my fave thing in the game before the lance angle nerf). There is pretty much no counter to a team stacked with ranged, anyone who tries to approach gets shot from all directions. I believe armored cav should be able to counter that at least in some way.

P.S. oh yeah, and throwers are just a cherry on top of this turd pie we have currently.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 15, 2015, 10:15:27 am
Archery does damage? When did this change?
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on December 15, 2015, 10:41:01 am
Agreed. Also related to this I remember when it was more efficient to aim at the rider with a melee weapon because it would take much longer to kill the horse. Now it doesn't matter much where you aim.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Torben on December 15, 2015, 12:14:10 pm
or bring back old lance angle  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: BlackxBird on December 15, 2015, 01:41:57 pm
Some time ago the devs tried to balance everything. So to give every class a good counter. Ima just list some:

Archery should be the conter against melee.
Throwers should be the counter for cav.
Cav should be the counter for archery


Right now melee (due to the shortened lance and short swords for cavs), throwers and archers are a counter for cav. The only thing cav is good for nowadays is against xbows. We can still be sneaky and come from behind. even though I know how to abooze shit I NEVER attack any ranged or melee when they see me. It is just so much easier for the enemy to hit me than it is for me to hit him! And when you do not one hit ranged enemies there is pretty much no way to attack him without loosing your horse.

My suggestion would be to reduce the damage a archer does on horses and increase the damage throwers do. They can mostly only throw on short range. It would make the class probably a bit harder on the one side, but on the other there wont be any archers shooting ur mount with 2 arrows across the map.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gandalf77 on December 15, 2015, 03:59:20 pm
Some time ago the devs tried to balance everything. So to give every class a good counter. Ima just list some:

Archery should be the conter against melee.
Throwers should be the counter for cav.
Cav should be the counter for archery


Right now melee (due to the shortened lance and short swords for cavs), throwers and archers are a counter for cav. The only thing cav is good for nowadays is against xbows. We can still be sneaky and come from behind. even though I know how to abooze shit I NEVER attack any ranged or melee when they see me. It is just so much easier for the enemy to hit me than it is for me to hit him! And when you do not one hit ranged enemies there is pretty much no way to attack him without loosing your horse.

My suggestion would be to reduce the damage a archer does on horses and increase the damage throwers do. They can mostly only throw on short range. It would make the class probably a bit harder on the one side, but on the other there wont be any archers shooting ur mount with 2 arrows across the map.

rlly ? they can stop cav with throwing lance and 2 hit plated charger and you want to buff them?
remove possibillity to stop a horse. And fix that fucking switching mode in 0.1 sec :F

And about cav just give them more armor, not hp becouse with more hp that will be more points for ranged. Or decrease dmg vs cav from ranged becouse if you will increase armor melee will start to cry xd
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Schoi on December 15, 2015, 04:19:37 pm
In my opinion ranged is perfectly fine the way it is. Yet horse archery and the hit points for every horse is pretty bad, like CS:GO
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: BlackxBird on December 15, 2015, 04:30:27 pm
Yes. I think a horse should die after getting hit by 2 throwing lances. Well throwing would have to be nerfed in some way then, id suggest to remove the melee function of throwing wepons.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: McKli_PL on December 15, 2015, 05:23:54 pm
There is pretty much no counter to a team stacked with ranged, anyone who tries to approach gets shot from all directions
yes i agree with this statement 100%, but don't blame bad class balance among teams(all ranged in one team protected by tincans etc vs light armored 2h's +cav etc) but this is pretty much every time, couple of ppl wants to push other are camping or doing stupid things and GG Crpg:( when teamplay is good always cav and agi based players are fucked(ranged protection, big stack protecting each other etc) but when teamplay is so bad trust me archers cri every time, cav is happy and agi players are in paradise slashing everything on their path:)
tl:dr so it has nothing to do with class per player it's rather like all those players can combine as one FUCKING team :wink:
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Godfredus on December 15, 2015, 05:40:11 pm
Well throwing would have to be nerfed in some way then, id suggest to remove the melee function of throwing wepons.
Speaking on nerfing throwing:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: BlackxBird on December 15, 2015, 06:10:36 pm
WOW. If the throwing lance wasnt sheatable that would solve a shitton of problems.


Edit: thats no sarcasm

Edit: wtf that sounds like sarcasm again. Im serious!
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Grumbs on December 15, 2015, 06:38:49 pm
I don't think you have to explain why a horse shouldn't die to 1 or 2 shots from any random left clicker unless it is a ha/hx. Cav should be a near hard counter to ranged
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 15, 2015, 06:44:43 pm
3-4 archery hits is quite a lot imho, everytime i play cav im surprised how little i get shot. Im also always surprised how many melee hits cav takes before going down. Im also surpised how fast people die from cav.

Im surprised people want cav buffs when its so easy to hybrid, and gives massive potential, more than any class in the game even.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Grumbs on December 15, 2015, 06:49:56 pm
3-4 archery hits is quite a lot imho, everytime i play cav im surprised how little i get shot. Im also always surprised how many melee hits cav takes before going down. Im also surpised how fast people die from cav.

Im surprised people want cav buffs when its so easy to hybrid, and gives massive potential, more than any class in the game even.

I'd rather have OP cav than OP ranged. You aren't going to make ranged number thin out without a counter like cav, otherwise its just ranged countering ranged which is a balance feedback loop like now. I rather die to cav than ranged any day, just because you can always counter cav if you play well. Random projectiles will hit regardless

The counter to cav should be long poles and rearing
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 15, 2015, 07:08:58 pm
I'd rather have OP cav than OP ranged. You aren't going to make ranged number thin out without a counter like cav, otherwise its just ranged countering ranged which is a balance feedback loop like now. I rather die to cav than ranged any day, just because you can always counter cav if you play well. Random projectiles will hit regardless

The counter to cav should be long poles and rearing

Id rather have both balanced, where ranged currently sitting is completely fine. I also think cav is fine, but balancing it is such a fine line of OP or ass.

Getting shot during a melee fight annoys me just as much as getting bumped. Both do about the same damage anyways.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Grumbs on December 15, 2015, 07:45:12 pm
Gravoth you are always saying balance is perfectly fine regardless of what they change  :P

Anyway none of this matters if they can't fix the server packetloss/warping models glitch. Server restarts don't seem to work, its a deep bug in the code. Until that is fixed the games not worth playing to me anyway
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: BlackxBird on December 15, 2015, 08:05:49 pm
There is no bug. They are simply not being restarted. Im not quite sure but i think they restarted the server every day some time ago. The last time it has been restarted now was when the last patch came out
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Ujin on December 15, 2015, 08:24:45 pm
3-4 archery hits is quite a lot imho, everytime i play cav im surprised how little i get shot. Im also always surprised how many melee hits cav takes before going down. Im also surpised how fast people die from cav.

Im surprised people want cav buffs when its so easy to hybrid, and gives massive potential, more than any class in the game even.
Gravoth mate if you notice i specifically state that this is a very narrow tweak to the balance between cav and ranged, it doesn't affect the cav vs melee balance in any way. IF armored horses can be more of a help for the team and push archers harder, it might actually improve the balance for the melee infantry players who currently can get severely outgunned by the ranged. I have no problem whatsoever in terms of the cav balance vs melee, sometimes i can get instakilled by melee or an armored horse can die from 2 slashes, but that's totally fine by me.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Rebelyell on December 15, 2015, 08:46:54 pm
3-4 archery hits is quite a lot imho, everytime i play cav im surprised how little i get shot. Im also always surprised how many melee hits cav takes before going down. Im also surpised how fast people die from cav.

Im surprised people want cav buffs when its so easy to hybrid, and gives massive potential, more than any class in the game even.
try to play heavy cav
it is slow
it is hard to manuvery
it is fucking big

now try to kill archer on that horse or mele player

Bump slasch is like 50% less dmg because of some cool feature of someone briliant
It is shit period.

On other hand runcey arabian and all that light horses are way better at surviving anything on battlefield than that big clunky excuse for heavy cav that we have now.

Now i think that light horses are superior to heavy cav. It is until I bump peasant and I stop dead or I go warping around like crazy.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on December 15, 2015, 09:32:51 pm
id suggest to remove the melee function of throwing wepons.

haha, tell fin.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 15, 2015, 10:03:36 pm
(click to show/hide)

If the game was broken, id want it fixed, i dont think it is broken. I dont think anything needs nerfing, if anything things could use buffs, that way the game keeps being fun for all the classes, instead of boring for the ones eating nerfhammers.

(click to show/hide)

The thing ive notice is just that once a good cav player joins, he will impact the game far more than most good infantry/ranged players. As for now i think the only true counter to good cav players is ranged, because they will not engage aware infantry, and even if they do they generally take a couple of hits and can survive.

(click to show/hide)

I actaully did play it not too long ago, i was surprised how tanky it was after hearing people complain about it. I was surprised how little i got hit by ranged, and i was often surprised how much i could do without swinging my weapon. I dont go for ranged, not as melee or cav (unless very specific scenarios) because i think ranged has such a small impact generally that killing infantry will simply win you the round (as long as you realise how strong flags are)
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Grumbs on December 15, 2015, 10:03:51 pm
There is no bug. They are simply not being restarted. Im not quite sure but i think they restarted the server every day some time ago. The last time it has been restarted now was when the last patch came out

Pretty sure they restarted several times. It just band aids the problem for a day or so, if that
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Rebelyell on December 15, 2015, 10:33:10 pm
(click to show/hide)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
I had it oneshoted multiple times
competent archers will teake it down with ~7 body shots

If that supouse to be meta lets be it but at last give that horses some speed
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Rebelyell on December 16, 2015, 10:41:02 am
Dear potential balancer.

My Mule dies in 2+ arrows every single time, so clearly every other mount needs a buff cos from this thread alone we can see that all mounts must have less health or armour than my mule to die in 1 or 2 arrows max every time. Cos, y'know, 'buff X' posters have never been known to lie about how weak their class is or exaggerate how few arrows it takes.

PS. Please do not assume that the ideas expressed in this thread are a majority opinion without first taking a poll. Ty
go on eu3 get your serious archermy old friend(with metabulid) and reconsider your statment.

I do not claim that light cav is any bad, maybe if there is way to reduce that warp after bumps but heavy cav is a joke.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 16, 2015, 12:18:02 pm
Considering how a cav player when dismounted is basically an infantry player with like 7 less skill points distributed in pure melee, a horse dying is definitely not such a big deal, especially if it takes up to 4 arrows before going down.

If anything, the price of horses could be reduced, but with current gold flow, money isnt an issue anyways. Also buff stakes, they should one hit cav like before, now theyre a bigger thread to friendly infantry getting stuck on them. The reward isnt worth the risk and the slots.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Larvae on December 16, 2015, 12:31:58 pm
The problem isnt the dmg of archers,that is already nerfed to the ground,to be able to do some dmg u need to go for 27/18 or even more str as u are also unable to run away even with an agi build because we got ironarrows with a bag of it and a total weight of 10 kg per bag....

cav is also still good,was it always.in the old days of crpg we had alot more ppl playing on eu1 so cav could charge from behind and side and so on.there wasnt the focus only on them.

and meele is what it ever was,allround class,use a shield and u are safe from archers,use a polearm and no horse will harm u and so on...

we need just more players on eu1,maybe bring bots in each team?!

also the dmg of all bows is nerfed,i use the yumi and need 3-4 arrows with 9 pd to kill a medium/heavy armored guy^^ ( all bows below the normal bow is a waste,u cant kill shit with it)
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Hirlok on December 16, 2015, 02:47:20 pm
Even after this mod dies off completely one day there will be whispers and whining in the shadows of those restless souls that could not stand a decent tickling with arrows...

Tl;dr version:

#NOjustNO
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Algarn on December 16, 2015, 11:24:58 pm
The problem isnt the dmg of archers,that is already nerfed to the ground,to be able to do some dmg u need to go for 27/18 or even more str as u are also unable to run away even with an agi build because we got ironarrows with a bag of it and a total weight of 10 kg per bag....

cav is also still good,was it always.in the old days of crpg we had alot more ppl playing on eu1 so cav could charge from behind and side and so on.there wasnt the focus only on them.

and meele is what it ever was,allround class,use a shield and u are safe from archers,use a polearm and no horse will harm u and so on...

we need just more players on eu1,maybe bring bots in each team?!

also the dmg of all bows is nerfed,i use the yumi and need 3-4 arrows with 9 pd to kill a medium/heavy armored guy^^ ( all bows below the normal bow is a waste,u cant kill shit with it)

But archers are so powerful, even if they have to invest all their points into archery and PD to deal some damage, even if they can't run because they'll get caught by plated guys with 8 ATHL, even if they can't do shit at melee, and even if they've mostly wearing low weight armors to keep their accuracy. People just can't realize the only damaging archers are glass canons, with little to no survivability when they're getting too close of a fight.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Rebelyell on December 16, 2015, 11:59:44 pm
I think you get that all wrong, It is more about difference between light and heavy horses and survivability they provide. If there is one or 2 arrow difference on kill between some heavy slow horse and fast and agile one It can really rise questions if it is worth of that trade off.
/imo
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: BlackxBird on December 17, 2015, 12:45:55 am
But archers are so powerful, even if they have to invest all their points into archery and PD to deal some damage, even if they can't run because they'll get caught by plated guys with 8 ATHL, even if they can't do shit at melee, and even if they've mostly wearing low weight armors to keep their accuracy. People just can't realize the only damaging archers are glass canons, with little to no survivability when they're getting too close of a fight.

pff QQ archery so weak, cav so op. I've tried archery for like 3 weeks. If u focus for cavalry you should be imo scoreleader. I even did 200+ points on an open map, and hell Im actually pretty bad at it . It's just so fucking easy to dismount riders. Even over more than 70 meters u can shoot so fucking accurate to dismount a cav without any problems.. And actually Ive noticed that it is pretty easy to kill enemies in melee as archer.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Godfredus on December 17, 2015, 12:55:38 am
Actually, I see another way of solving the underpowered cavalry vs. overpowered archer problem with no changing any stats, but tweaking a little the gameplay.
I mean, look: cavalry supposed to scare enemies, destroy ranged from front and infantry from behind or flanks.

There's no problem with infantry vs cavalry fighting: great lance, even with nerfed to the ground cav, still outreach most melee weapons as it should do, and do great damage as it should do. And pikes are still destroying almost any cav with stopping it for a gangbang.
There's no real problem with dodging against ranged on a great distance cause most archers are more busy with enemy infantry that surely will slice them in pieces right after dealing with other infantry.
There's no problem with throwing damage on short distance cause throwing is supposed to do big damage on short distances.
There's no problem with cavalry vs crossbows, even it's crossbow that can oneshoot a simple horse at head, because engaged crossbowman with unloaded crossbow is forced to play as infantry or run, as it was in reality.

The problem is that archers mostly are not afraid of cavalry as they should be.
Because engaged archer can run around and shoot impotent to hurt them the rider and horse to death in a few shots from 2-4 meters, or even few cm.
Engaged archers (mostly, if the rider's not a pro and the archer is not a noob) are not forced nor fighting melee, nor running for their lives.

What I suggest is forcing archers (because of their shooting speed at their run&shoot ability) fighting melee against cavalry (or run) if cavalry engaged archer.
There's a simple way of it. We got a system that gives +1 shield skill if several shielders hold their shields close to each other.
Let archers get their some -10 power draw skill if there is a mounted enemy really close to them, if that's possible. That will put crossbowmen and archers on the same ground when countering cav, btw. Also, that will represent the disturbing feature of cavalry in behind.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on December 17, 2015, 01:28:45 am
I've been playing a bit as a one hand cav and it is pretty frusturating when my Arabian horse gets one hit from across the map from a single arrow. Guess thats just the way the cookie crumbles though
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 17, 2015, 02:24:53 am
I've been playing a bit as a one hand cav and it is pretty frusturating when my Arabian horse gets one hit from across the map from a single arrow. Guess thats just the way the cookie crumbles though

But the arabian is so fucking maneuverable, definitely the most potential for mass slaughter. Would it get buffed, it would just be silly strong. I still think that heavy horses are good too, less thinking. Its very similar to light infantry vs heavy, its a tradeoff with potential for points, vs less brain usage. Allthough that doesnt by any means make the less potential not able to top any scoreboards.

pff QQ archery so weak, cav so op. I've tried archery for like 3 weeks. If u focus for cavalry you should be imo scoreleader. I even did 200+ points on an open map, and hell Im actually pretty bad at it . It's just so fucking easy to dismount riders. Even over more than 70 meters u can shoot so fucking accurate to dismount a cav without any problems.. And actually Ive noticed that it is pretty easy to kill enemies in melee as archer.

He never said cav is op, he said archery is a glass cannon build. Archery requires full stat distribution, damn near. Cav on the otherhand, not so much. Which is the more dominant class? still cav. Why do people want archery nerfed? Because apparently they are without counters and nearly unbeatable. When people die to cav, they think oh i shouldve paid more attention then i wouldve survived. When people die to archery they think that it was an unavoidable death.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Umbra on December 17, 2015, 08:21:27 am
Dont reduce it. Ranged are the only thing keeping cavalry somewhat in check. Even with this damage cav still dominates.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Larvae on December 17, 2015, 09:54:17 am
before u nerf archers again,give horses omewhat more armor or hp,but then there will be still cav players complaining about archery^^
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Mr.K. on December 17, 2015, 03:00:00 pm
Why do people want archery nerfed? Because apparently they are without counters and nearly unbeatable. When people die to cav, they think oh i shouldve paid more attention then i wouldve survived. When people die to archery they think that it was an unavoidable death.

This and the fact that it takes 1/10th of the time investment to become a decent archer compared to decent melee or even decent cavalryman.

Atm anything besides the Arabian gokart and Courser is a waste and that's poor balancing. Then there's the other problem that high levels allow cavalry players to be perfectly viable in melee as well. All wpf on polearm, take a heavy lance plus a swordstaff/poleaxe/any-other-op-pole. Heck you can even bring a buckler to hoplite against cavalry when you get dismounted... Nerfing levels or increasing the riding requirements by two while reducing the positive effects of having more riding should fix that.

And bring back 1h cav. It's utterly useless atm and no one plays it from what I've seen... Used to counter lancers quite nicely and kept the balance of powers in check. Yes it used to be OP, but the amount of nerfs it got was just too much.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Larvae on December 17, 2015, 06:11:58 pm
So many players are willing to spend hours and hours of practice until blocking becomes a 2nd nature, and practice feints and holds in melee. But never even try to learn how to predict or avoid the path of an arrow, it's not hard.

Or I'm playing a map as a shielder and I'm getting my shield chucked full of arrows without a single loss of health and I'm seeing people in chat saying 'pfff, shield isn't even a decent counter to ranged anymore...', y'what? I'm standing right there, countering ranged, eating their ammo and maintaining full health until they run out of ammo, choose another target or are forced into melee with me.

for that ppl should learn to invest more than 3-4 points in shieldskill.
with less ur shield will break soon because of high str build archery^^

btw nerf throwinglances dmg or speed or both in meele,those are annoying if they insta-switch between ranged and meele^^
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on December 17, 2015, 11:01:20 pm
Only played sporadically recently, but my +3 Barded doesn't seem to take obscene amounts of damage from ranged. I can mostly mitigate received damage from using proper movement, keeping in mind speed bonuses. Sure, some guy with a throwing lance or a heavier crossbow is gonna be rather likely to hit me, especially if I have mistakenly gotten too close to them, without any sort of surprise. But all I've got to do is either cease most movement, or even better, move laterally and away from them. I've seen motherfuckers hit my horse with a throwing lance for less than 1/6 total HP the past few days, given I've got the presence of mind to make smart evasive movements.

And for fuck's sake, I play a 24/18 pure 1h/no shield cav build for the funsies. I use my horse AS a shield, and I don't reckon ranged even hurts me very much.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Algarn on December 18, 2015, 01:46:33 am
Only played sporadically recently, but my +3 Barded doesn't seem to take obscene amounts of damage from ranged. I can mostly mitigate received damage from using proper movement, keeping in mind speed bonuses. Sure, some guy with a throwing lance or a heavier crossbow is gonna be rather likely to hit me, especially if I have mistakenly gotten too close to them, without any sort of surprise. But all I've got to do is either cease most movement, or even better, move laterally and away from them. I've seen motherfuckers hit my horse with a throwing lance for less than 1/6 total HP the past few days, given I've got the presence of mind to make smart evasive movements.

And for fuck's sake, I play a 24/18 pure 1h/no shield cav build for the funsies. I use my horse AS a shield, and I don't reckon ranged even hurts me very much.

Don't tell these poor lads the truth, they need something to believe in, like archery being overpowered in 2015.

Archery is just fine as it is.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Mr.K. on December 18, 2015, 12:17:04 pm
Don't tell these poor lads the truth, they need something to believe in, like archery being overpowered in 2015.

Archery is just fine as it is.

What truth? It's a fact that a pure archer build will kill +3 arabian with zero speedbonus even with bodkin arrows. It's also a fact that you can kill a medium horse with two arrows even with bodkins. The problem here is that the arabian can avoid arrows quite easily compared to a large warhorse for example, making the latter completely useless. The other problem is that it makes archery the only class in game without actual hard counters other than maybe crossbows.

Imo archery is slightly overpowered against infantry as well, but that's really a discussion for another topic.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Rebelyell on December 18, 2015, 04:48:22 pm
I just done test with Steve.
He is able to kill plated charger with 2 headshots or 5 body shots.
Arabian will die in 1 headshot and 2 body shots.
Much good much balance, on one good thing about that fat horse is that it will not go out of sync when i bump someone.

Fun fact: I can sustain the same amount of damange in to the body(in my fatplate set) as plated charger.
On other hand any archer that play with nometa build will do almost no dmg, dam even change of arrows will change everything.

As I dont care about nerfing archers I think that heavy cav need some love.

Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 19, 2015, 01:56:45 pm
I just done test with Steve.
He is able to kill plated charger with 2 headshots or 5 body shots.
Arabian will die in 1 headshot and 2 body shots.
Much good much balance, on one good thing about that fat horse is that it will not go out of sync when i bump someone.

Fun fact: I can sustain the same amount of damange in to the body(in my fatplate set) as plated charger.
On other hand any archer that play with nometa build will do almost no dmg, dam even change of arrows will change everything.

As I dont care about nerfing archers I think that heavy cav need some love.

Testing, what, you let him shoot your horse while standing still? Yeah because thats a realistic scenario for cavalry.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Rebelyell on December 19, 2015, 05:48:27 pm
4 arrows will leave plated charger with helth under 1 bar. Speedbonus will kill charger with 4 arrows.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Godfredus on December 21, 2015, 07:05:42 am
I got my Champion Destrier killed with 1(!) throwing lance yesterday (not a headshot), while he was walking slowly. I just say.
Though, maybe I didn't see incoming arrows due to lag. But I heard no other hits than the throwing lance hit.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on December 21, 2015, 02:23:00 pm
Only problem I have with ranged is that they change weapons too quick. Not enough punishment for getting ambushed or whatever.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Yeldur on December 21, 2015, 09:50:05 pm
As much as I despise cav (Lancers and HA only, but HA are irrelevant as they're useless, thank fuck)
I do agree.
Horses die almost instantly to well, anything lol. From playing cav on Ladoea even on a plated charger my horse was dying so fast it's ridiculous, the health either needs to be buffed or the archers/throwers need to be nerfed.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Ujin on December 23, 2015, 04:06:51 pm

If the horseman is actually trying to survive and not charging at the archer in a straight line to try and prove that ranged is OP, then it'll take more successful hits.
That's the whole point of this thread. Nobody, not even heavy cav can attack a group of aware ranged successfully and it makes playing on some maps very unpleasant for everyone involved, except for the ranged players. And how does speed bonus work both ways if one person is pewpewing and the other can't get to the pewpewer ?
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Rebelyell on December 23, 2015, 11:17:01 pm
Maybe but maybe plated charger can survive 5 arrows with negative speed bonus. It is not kind of horse that can rely on agi because it is slowe and big easy target. Piierce arrows just shit on that mighty 50isch armor. I am on phone so I ...  u know what. Gfy. All I hear here is some elaborations from ass with little facts behind it. I can go like you. In my opinion heavy cav is shit. You

You get 2 extra arrows of survivability in trade for anything else.
Best deal ever. /rant
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Godfredus on December 24, 2015, 04:24:28 am
That's the whole point of this thread. Nobody, not even heavy cav can attack a group of aware ranged successfully and it makes playing on some maps very unpleasant for everyone involved, except for the ranged players. And how does speed bonus work both ways if one person is pewpewing and the other can't get to the pewpewer ?
Even attacking only one bow pewpewer is more dangerous for heavy sword&shield cav, than for foot shielder. I die to single archer more when charging him from front on a horse, than when charging him from front as infantry. It's ridiculous, considering that cavalry supposed to be the biggest natural threat for ranged.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gandalf77 on December 24, 2015, 10:47:50 am
That's the whole point of this thread. Nobody, not even heavy cav can attack a group of aware ranged successfully and it makes playing on some maps very unpleasant for everyone involved, except for the ranged players. And how does speed bonus work both ways if one person is pewpewing and the other can't get to the pewpewer ?

and ofc when you get to that pewpewer you hit him in face and he survive becouse no speedbonus for cav ....
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Gravoth_iii on December 28, 2015, 04:35:49 pm
and ofc when you get to that pewpewer you hit him in face and he survive becouse no speedbonus for cav ....

So you forget about him, and win the round because he probably got finished off by another archer. You dont always have to oneshot them, allthought it happens often. Returning for the kill is generally suicide though.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on January 02, 2016, 02:22:52 pm
I have a better suggestion: Make damage on cavalry less weird.

Recently I've been experiencing horses just not dying, had a courser take several hits from a +3 nodachi without being too bothered, I've survived a couch from behind with 80% health left and I've seen horses dropping in 1 crossbow hit to the head.

It's all speed bonus' fault. Make the damage more consistent then it will be easier to balance the class.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: BlackxBird on January 02, 2016, 04:48:40 pm
Nah, thats ok how it is, dont change speed bonus or hitboxes of the horses. That would totally kill the class. No idea who u are ouajamaflip but the things u just said are normal and should be how they are
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on January 02, 2016, 05:36:52 pm
No u blackbird.

No.

U.
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: BlackxBird on January 02, 2016, 05:39:29 pm
no idea who u are, but this is simply ok. Guess you're just new to cav and don't understand how it is working.. Trust someone who played it about 3000 hours
Title: Re: Reduce ranged damage to horses
Post by: Mr_Oujamaflip on January 02, 2016, 05:56:10 pm
I would just like to reiterate my previous post.