Yeah except using spear overhead like that doesn't make any fucking sense in the real world. It's great for art pieces and such thought.
Look (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,6088.msg98817.html#msg98817)
Suggest you look at Marathon's posted video. If the animation changes so you raised it to shoulder height that would be find by me, stabbing over obstacles is a pain in the ass stabbing from the waist.
Now design a weakness, this will be the only weapon that would be able to strike while still being protected by the shield.
Yeah except using spear overhead like that doesn't make any fucking sense in the real world. It's great for art pieces and such thought.Errrr, what?
Errrr, what?
I'm all for an overhead spear attack. It will mean a few more spear+shielders which were quite common in medieval Europe as militia and cheap units.
Yeah except using spear overhead like that doesn't make any fucking sense in the real world. It's great for art pieces and such thought.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL3-GpZQdS4Watching this whole thing...
Watch n' learn m8 :)
Not sure which part it is in though, but watch all of it anyway, 'tis great!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EL3-GpZQdS4
Watch n' learn m8 :)
Not sure which part it is in though, but watch all of it anyway, 'tis great!
How will you see if you need to down block or up block? If it is possible to solve that I support this.
you would see it in the characters animation, holding the spear overhanded up near his shoulder, instead of behind his waist
I would really like to see spears get more variety in their attacks. The attack should have a spd/range penalty, but can get over low walls and teamates (useful for shieldwall/DTV).
One issue though, this overhead spear attack is blocked by an up block? I think that is inconsistent with the rest of the game and silly. 2H sword stabs would basically be coming from a similar angle, yet they are still downblocked, as are all thrusts. The up block is for defense against an attack swinging down on your head.
I would like to see this, but not if it is up-blocked.
Also, I think there should be an animation for two handing an over head thrust, with a pike for instance.
Stop using IRL to decide game balance. To an extent of course but who cares if over-hand stab was useless, stabbing me with your 2h sword from 1cm away should do no damage but it still kills me
I support this
Stop using IRL to decide game balance
Overhead stab with EVERY spear.DAMN STRAIGHT
This guy has some interesting points http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klOc9C-aPr4&feature=relmfu
Overhead stab with EVERY spear.
But... then the 2Hmy old friendsheroes wont be able to laugh as they charge a line of spears with their downblock held! It might even promote... teamwork! And we certainly can't have that!
So basically it will be the same thing as when the long spear/pike had an overhand. People would just go around in groups of two with one overhanding and one poking, trolling anyone that is without a teammate. OH, except under this suggestion, it all does pierce.
I don't see two handers comlaining that their lolstab was aimed at your face and you blocked it with a downblock.
2h has an overhead. Spear shielders have one attack.....that's why. And what's so horibble about developing new fighting styles to wreck 2h users? How high is the percent of kills do to 2h over any other melee class?
I say 2h are a buncho pussies if they can't handle a 2directional spear stab from a shielder.
Yeah I'm calling you out on this one. You are yellahr bellay.
Last I checked all the hoplite weapons have 2 or more attack directions if you put your shield on your back.
So basically it will be the same thing as when the long spear/pike had an overhand. People would just go around in groups of two with one overhanding and one poking, trolling anyone that is without a teammate. OH, except under this suggestion, it all does pierce.
I don't see two handers comlaining that their lolstab was aimed at your face and you blocked it with a downblock.
Then they are no longer a hoplite. So invalid arguement.
Crpg definition of hoplite: one who wields polearm and shield as weapon configuration.
Once the shields on their back they are no longer wielding it.
You are also requireing them to master two fighting styles compared to 2h one fighting style. That is an unjust request.
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And two handers dont tap right block to block all attack directions and range. So invalid argument.
So basically it will be the same thing as when the long spear/pike had an overhand. People would just go around in groups of two with one overhanding and one poking, trolling anyone that is without a teammate. OH, except under this suggestion, it all does pierce.
Yeah! More threads asking that every weapon have identical moves and abilities! (cough)
Poles are longer. That is their advantage/disadvantage. The fact that you can't overhead with a shield (herp derp) is obvious and realistic. Ever try that IRL? Hold a big trash can lid in one hand and a long spear like stick in the other and see how effective you are. lol...
NO WAIT! Give overhead to them while they hold a shield! Yes do that! And make it so weak that it doesn't damage anyone and make their shield defense DROP due to the feeble & clumsy maneuver! Yeah! Give that to them!
So...you are saying that at the current moment nobody runs around in groups of two overheading at the same time that they have been stabbing? Have you NOT seen NH or KUTT at all? And all pierce damage? I'm pretty sure blunt pierce are available to every weapon style.
All in all, I really don't understand why you are so against this rule. Could be you hate polearms in general, because I have seen you in every single polearm buff thread fighting against it and in favor of your precious 2h's. But honestly, in any game, a situation that is 2 versus 1 is NEVER supposed to be in your favor. So, please, enlighten us as to why you are so against giving hoplites a, god forbid, SECOND attack direction? Because ONE attack direction on its own is already so overpowered and completely uncounterable in every way.
Egan, all your arguments are trash. 2 handers don't tap right block to block all attacks and range because they choose to forsake a shield for extra reach, stopping power, and speed.
What I would not want to see is a new attack direction that doesn't follow the pattern that EVERY other melee weapon attack does (a poke that needs to be blocked with an overhand)You haven't played napoleonic wars have you? Or you probably missed your morning dose of common sense. Why does holding the weapon at your hip block my stab to the face. If someone to your side makes a right to left swing, why does your left block stop his attack rather then the right block? I mean, the left one isn't supposed to stop that attack, but it does because it just makes sense right. So, I ask again, why does your weapon at the hip block my stab to your face.
Furthermore, one of the arguments everyone seems to be making is OMG one guy blocking down shouldn't invalidate X number of hoplites. But every other class has a simular counter such as shielders against range, pikers against horses, range against two handers.
Hoplites get to attack in more then one direction because they choose to equip a shield for extra reach and the ability to tap right block to block all attacks and range.
Yeah! More threads asking that every weapon have identical moves and abilities! (cough)
Poles are longer. That is their advantage/disadvantage. The fact that you can't overhead with a shield (herp derp) is obvious and realistic. Ever try that IRL? Hold a big trash can lid in one hand and a long spear like stick in the other and see how effective you are. lol...
NO WAIT! Give overhead to them while they hold a shield! Yes do that! And make it so weak that it doesn't damage anyone and make their shield defense DROP due to the feeble & clumsy maneuver! Yeah! Give that to them!
You haven't played napoleonic wars have you? Or you probably missed your morning dose of common sense. Why does holding the weapon at your hip block my stab to the face. If someone to your side makes a right to left swing, why does your left block stop his attack rather then the right block? I mean, the left one isn't supposed to stop that attack, but it does because it just makes sense right. So, I ask again, why does your weapon at the hip block my stab to your face.
Don't forget axemen, 2 handers, shielders, maulers, throwers, longspears, pikemen. They all counter hoplites too.
I'm going to assume you mean they don't get to attack in one direction because blah blah blah?
Now, I chose to become a hoplite because I was getting focused when I would use my longspear, such is the life of one who makes other people's lives miserable. I lost a good amount of range and damage for the extra survivability. However, why is it that I can fight BETTER with the longspear than with a hoplite. I have the same amount of attacks, a little more reach (which in turn screws me at close range), but no shield to help keep me alive. I move much faster however, and do a great deal more damage than the hoplite.
So in total, by choosing to be a hoplite you lose 1-3 attack directions, 1/3 of your damage and speed, a good amount of speed due to the shield, you must allocate stats to your shield skill(Enough to miss an extra PS or Ath point), and a large amount of range you could have otherwise received if you chose to use another class that fills the same role.I said I would like to see the damage buffed or speed penalty lowered. I don't really think that the speed penalty from the shield is really as back breaking as you make it sound, although I could be wrong. The thing that everyone seems to be overlooking is that you can put your shield on your back if you are put into a position that requires additional attack directions. Therefor you don't lose those directions. If you use a warspear as your hoplite weapon you have a perfectly fine weapon without the sheild.
This is balanced to you?
No I haven't played napoleonic wars, I would feel pretty stupid with my prior posts but luckily this is the crpg forum and not the NW forum. I did have my morning dose of common sense, it came in the form of a couple cups of coffee. Have you? EVERY melee class is easily capable of stabbing people in the face with a poke. It is just as easy to do it with a greatsword, italian sword, dueling polearm, long dagger. Why would only hoplites get this advantage?Those weapons have other attack directions.
You mean to tell me that a support class is bad at 1v1? Shocking. And yet I still see people like civilian destroy people in 1v1s as a hoplite.
How do throwers, long spears, pikemen counter hoplites?
I said I would like to see the damage buffed or speed penalty lowered. I don't really think that the speed penalty from the shield is really as back breaking as you make it sound, although I could be wrong. The thing that everyone seems to be overlooking is that you can put your shield on your back if you are put into a position that requires additional attack directions. Therefor you don't lose those directions. If you use a warspear as your hoplite weapon you have a perfectly fine weapon without the sheild.
I know people are going to say but then you arent a hoplite derp. But let me say this, if you are a 1h shield do you put it on your back when you are fighting a shield breaker? If you are a twohander that carries a low req shield, do you use it when range is shooting you?
Those weapons have other attack directions.
Why does holding the weapon at your hip block my stab to the face. If someone to your side makes a right to left swing, why does your left block stop his attack rather then the right block? I mean, the left one isn't supposed to stop that attack, but it does because it just makes sense right. So, I ask again, why does your weapon at the hip block my stab to your face.
What is so groundsbreaking of this overhead stab that bothers you so much Egan? Would it be that hard to accustom yourself to doing an overhead block when the animation for an overhead stab begins?