cRPG

Other Games => ... and all the other things floating around out there => Topic started by: Golem on June 16, 2015, 12:18:55 am

Title: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 16, 2015, 12:18:55 am
So just now For Honor has been announced at E3. It's pretty much Melee: Battlegrounds with a targeting feature and bots. Good thing chadz and others decided to make it a sandbox, because this thing would crush 'em.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: LordBerenger on June 16, 2015, 12:41:41 am
So just now For Honor has been announced at E3. It's pretty much Melee: Battlegrounds with a targeting feature and bots. Good thing chadz and others decided to make it a sandbox, because this thing would crush 'em.

Looks awesome but that name though. Sounds like a game that'll be dead online within 2 years.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Kalam on June 16, 2015, 01:14:17 am
Just saw the trailer. If Ubisoft would just quit creating games and producing movie shorts, I think we'd get along.

The funny part is when they called their game mechanics 'innovative'. Since it's for consoles first and foremost, I think it'll probably be a simpler take on melee mechanics. Perhaps even simpler than Chivalry.

At least we see that a major company has interest in the genre, which suggests more competition in it's future.

Of course, I have more faith in Donkeys than I do in Ubisoft when it comes to making engaging gameplay.

The graphics are nice, though.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 16, 2015, 01:52:41 am
There was a live gameplay at E3, if you can believe that, with like 8 guys on stage. Team of 4 with some bots. The combat looked li there was alot of timing and blocking involved, not so much space control or any other advanced mechanics. Seemed to me that feinting was present as in swith to thrust from overhead at the last second and the blocking was also more complex then Chivalry. The thing I don't like is that it will probably be 4v4 player matches and that's just like a moba. We'll see...
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Radament on June 16, 2015, 03:12:17 am
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Clockworkkiller on June 16, 2015, 03:24:58 am
Armor models look pretty cool....
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 16, 2015, 04:11:13 am
Hahahaah, fucking Treyarch made a CoD Black Ops 3 and it's just like Titanfall, fuck me.  :P :P :P
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: SeQuel on June 16, 2015, 04:21:19 am
I thought it looked pretty cool, not expecting much though.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 16, 2015, 04:46:25 am
The Division was pretty good. Except the wilhelm screams and the VOIP gameplay..
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Vibe on June 16, 2015, 08:57:20 am
Animations and graphics look great but the gameplay looks more of a Dark Souls / action hack&slash style rather than M&B style.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: [ptx] on June 16, 2015, 10:07:13 am
It is basically Dynasty Warriors with some simplified M&B-like duels. Could be a lot of fun, but deffo not a contender for actual M&B-like games.

Also, Ubisoft. Wonder how they'll fuck this up.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: LordBerenger on June 16, 2015, 10:37:36 am
Hahahaah, fucking Treyarch made a CoD Black Ops 3 and it's just like Titanfall, fuck me.  :P :P :P

And the last chance of a WW2 COD died. Now every FPS game (Doom, COD etc..) will go back to being ADHD, bunny hopping, rocket jumping derp games.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Jona on June 16, 2015, 12:18:15 pm
It honestly looks really similar to lotr conquest, just with moba-esque elements. 4v4 matches with a bunch of shitty CPUs that don't even block? No thanks. The dueling aspect looked interesting (for a console game) but it ultimately fell short of anything us pc masterrace gamers expect. Not to mention it will probably be hella-inbalanced if there are too many classes. Already that samurai assassin spammaster seemed pretty OP. Interesting concept overall, but I'll most certainly pass.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Utrakil on June 16, 2015, 01:26:50 pm
Since you all failed to post the videos you are talking about. here is the one 4v4 live on stage +some intro video shit
http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/15/8786315/for-honor-ubisoft-montreal-knights-vikings#ooid=cyazdvdTrc1s7kTo3Y5FONqWSrKhzfeX

since the 4v4 is only a demo it might be interesting if they are going to change the bots for players.
otherwise those bots are just stupid useless filling to pretend there is a battle and not a joust.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Vibe on June 16, 2015, 01:40:33 pm
Since you all failed to post the videos you are talking about. here is the one 4v4 live on stage +some intro video shit
http://www.theverge.com/2015/6/15/8786315/for-honor-ubisoft-montreal-knights-vikings#ooid=cyazdvdTrc1s7kTo3Y5FONqWSrKhzfeX

this link is worse than not posting the video

Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Teeth on June 16, 2015, 01:42:06 pm
Yeah, 10 posts until the first video, wat
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Leshma on June 16, 2015, 02:09:16 pm
Now I understand what cmp meant when he said that translating M&B combat scheme on gamepad won't work so well as I thought it would. Still believe it is mainly due to bad implementation, but god that combat looks way worse than Chivalry which is already dumbed down version of Warband's mechanics. It is different combat system, but Kingdom Come looks way better than this shit.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 16, 2015, 06:40:53 pm
Yeah, 10 posts until the first video, wat
I couldn't find any videos at the time I posted the thread. It was just after the E3 presentation/announcement.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 16, 2015, 06:43:16 pm
Now I understand what cmp meant when he said that translating M&B combat scheme on gamepad won't work so well as I thought it would. Still believe it is mainly due to bad implementation, but god that combat looks way worse than Chivalry which is already dumbed down version of Warband's mechanics. It is different combat system, but Kingdom Come looks way better than this shit.
Chivalry, srsly? Also Kingdom Cum is singleplayer only and as much as I like games from my country I don't think Warhorse will deliver, the hype is too great imo.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Leshma on June 16, 2015, 06:58:15 pm
Hype is non-existent compared to Ubisoft published titles. Wasn't talking about multiplayer, was solely focusing on combat system. As for For Honor having multiplayer, that's cool if you like newage generic bullshit online games where screen is crowded with annoying UI where every second something pops up on screen. With objectives and pvpve online modes where few players fight against each with bunch of AI soldiers used to make things look less deserted than it actually is (Titanfall-like). Warband players just don't fit in that stereotype, we like our UI minimal and freedom in combat. Combat in For Honor might have directional attack (haven't noticed directional blocking) but those duals reminds me of mobile game Infinity Blade, more than Warband.

cRPG used to have 120vs120 player battles. For Honor is a joke compared to that.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: LordBerenger on June 16, 2015, 08:22:30 pm

cRPG used to have 120vs120 player battles. For Honor is a joke compared to that.

Keyword: Used
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Ikarus on June 16, 2015, 10:19:47 pm
that´s no competition for mab, that´s just some medieval dynasty warriors stuff
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Gatsby on June 16, 2015, 10:25:47 pm
Combat looks more like a soul's game with directions than any m&b game.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 17, 2015, 06:55:36 pm
Hype is non-existent compared to Ubisoft published titles. Wasn't talking about multiplayer, was solely focusing on combat system. As for For Honor having multiplayer, that's cool if you like newage generic bullshit online games where screen is crowded with annoying UI where every second something pops up on screen. With objectives and pvpve online modes where few players fight against each with bunch of AI soldiers used to make things look less deserted than it actually is (Titanfall-like). Warband players just don't fit in that stereotype, we like our UI minimal and freedom in combat. Combat in For Honor might have directional attack (haven't noticed directional blocking) but those duals reminds me of mobile game Infinity Blade, more than Warband.

cRPG used to have 120vs120 player battles. For Honor is a joke compared to that.
that´s no competition for mab, that´s just some medieval dynasty warriors stuff
Combat looks more like a soul's game with directions than any m&b game.
It's still the same market.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: SP1N on June 17, 2015, 07:07:00 pm

Looks like something I'll definitely give a shot, but unless there's a ridiculous amount of customization, I can't see myself replaying it.

edit: Oh someone actually posted this, whatevs, I'll leave it on this page for the lazy folk.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 17, 2015, 07:37:31 pm
IMO they should've went with a low-fantasy setting, I am yet to see a multiplayer game where you can play some kind of monster except for Crawl.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Clockworkkiller on June 17, 2015, 08:40:22 pm
IMO they should've went with a low-fantasy setting, I am yet to see a multiplayer game where you can play some kind of monster except for Crawl.

Evolve? L4dead multiplayer? NS2?
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: LordBerenger on June 17, 2015, 08:48:09 pm
IMO they should've went with a low-fantasy setting, I am yet to see a multiplayer game where you can play some kind of monster except for Crawl.

Ewww too many fantasy medieval games. Especially for example when it comes to MMO. Not that many medieval games where there's no fantasy at all. No monsters and no magic or derpy weapons.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Clockworkkiller on June 17, 2015, 09:45:11 pm
Honestly I think the game looks fun
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Richyy on June 17, 2015, 09:50:24 pm
coming out on 2016, why they do this
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Radament on June 18, 2015, 09:03:15 pm
- Char Progression (cRPG)
- Huge Battles (Warband - cRPG - Strategus)
- Animations and Models (For Honor)
- Level Design (For Honor seems quite good)
- Siege Weapons Interaction (Chivalry - cRPG - Warband)
- Modding (Warband)
- Player Customization (cRPG - Chivalry -War of the Roses) 
- Gore (Chivalry)
- Best Community (cRPG)
(click to show/hide)
- Crafting (anyone mentioned)
- Persistent World (no , not PW , something like Heroes&Generals)
- PvE for pussies (For Hodor - DTV)

am i asking too much?  8-)

Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Teeth on June 18, 2015, 09:42:08 pm
It is all well and good to create a good one on one combat system with a targeting system, and also much easier, but this game has multiple enemies. The beauty of Warband is that it allows a high degree of control and complexity while leaving your camera under your control at all times as well. What I find the most rewarding moments of Warband are those where you effectively fight multiple opponents, because you can look at them both and steer your blocks and attacks so intuitively.

In this game it seems like your camera will always be centered on one opponent during the fight, so no free camera control. I did see a character smoothly block a second opponent, but what if he comes from behind, you probably have to untarget and retarget or something. Also, targeting systems make combat more rigid, reducing the amount of tricks and mindgames available to the player.

That said, great that Medieval combat games continue to get attention and the animations look pretty crispy. The hud is obtrusive as fuck though.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Teeth on June 18, 2015, 11:07:07 pm
I know you are jesting, but a big reason for many people to play this game for so long is that those kind of tricks and mind games are possible. There are only so much moves and strategies you can code into multiplayer medieval combat game with rigid targeting, while remaining accessible and intuitive. Good players will exhaust them fast and get bored if there is nothing else. If Warband allowed only attacks and blocks while looking straight at your opponent, multiplayer would have devolved into a complete numbers game within a year of release.

"Avoiding block detection" is a term baddies use to describe falling for their opponent's mind games.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 19, 2015, 11:29:22 am
I always look around if there are any tard wranglers nearby, whenever someone tries to pull that move.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Vibe on June 19, 2015, 03:16:17 pm
If it was falling for their mind games, you'd be blocking the wrong way, or not blocking at all. The fact that trick allows you to get *around* their correct block by facing the ground is what makes warband amazing and every possible game ever should aspire to be like it. What we need is for Ubisoft to release a game where only by tilting forward and facing the floor can you be a master of the game and have the most satisfying and immersive duels of all time where all players are constantly presenting their enemies with the backs of their necks - in 1.2 version update they can even patch the bots to do the same. Epic

Now there's a game that the present cRPG community would buy... and no one else (kinda like the vision lots of people here have for M:BG)

you can block floor stabs with down block?
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Vibe on June 19, 2015, 03:18:51 pm
then what the fuck is the problem, you can't block side swings?
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 19, 2015, 03:20:12 pm
If it was falling for their mind games, you'd be blocking the wrong way, or not blocking at all. The fact that trick allows you to get *around* their correct block by facing the ground is what makes warband amazing and every possible game ever should aspire to be like it. What we need is for Ubisoft to release a game where only by tilting forward and facing the floor can you be a master of the game and have the most satisfying and immersive duels of all time where all players are constantly presenting their enemies with the backs of their necks - in 1.2 version update they can even patch the bots to do the same. Epic

Now there's a game that the present cRPG community would buy... and no one else (kinda like the vision lots of people here have for M:BG)

Try facing the guy who's swinging, that helps too, if you are certain you are holding the right block. Facing the ground does not make your swings go through blocks, it just looks slightly confusing.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Vibe on June 19, 2015, 03:25:16 pm
If the person is hugging the ground it changes the angle of the animation to sometimes circumvent a sideways block and hit the person you're facing in the back. Angles are relevant in all this but at least since turn rate nerf it's much easier to do in cRPG than native and ignore the standard '4-d' combat system.

This is why obviously every game needs to play like warband and anything different that forces you to face the person you're fighting is bad. Who wants a melee game where you actually have to fight like it's real melee combat?

lmfao no it doesn't, you just got outplayed. As for the game itself, Teeth said it perfectly.

but a big reason for many people to play this game for so long is that those kind of tricks and mind games are possible. There are only so much moves and strategies you can code into multiplayer medieval combat game with rigid targeting, while remaining accessible and intuitive. Good players will exhaust them fast and get bored if there is nothing else. If Warband allowed only attacks and blocks while looking straight at your opponent, multiplayer would have devolved into a complete numbers game within a year of release.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Vibe on June 19, 2015, 03:40:46 pm
Yes it does, you just got outplayed. Snap, sweet argument.

You face the opponent and hold the right block, and you will block the attack, the angle doesn't fucking matter. Only thing I see from your comments is crying because someone juked you by sidestepping and you didn't turn fast enough.

Other games that want to be successful may prefer to have features that more than just the cRPG community would enjoy, and create a combat system that looks like a combat system. You are free to remain playing cRPG and make snobbish comments about the inferior combat system of a game that may well be vastly more popular and fun to play (for those people).

Warband combat system looks just fine. There's the added tricks that the better players use that yeah, don't look too realistic. Sure you can opt to make a casual combat system that looks nice, or you can make a good combat system that will attract both beginners and the better players, because it has depth. If you manage to make an easy to learn, hard to master combat system, with tricks and all, while still looking realistic, then all the fucking praise to you, but For Honor is not that.

Considering the current pop of cRPG and the attrition rate this mod has had, accusing another game of having un-cRPG-like combat is a compliment.

Yes it's the combat systems fault, not the fact that this is an old ass mod of an old ass game  :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: LordBerenger on June 19, 2015, 03:44:25 pm
I remember that I've blocked attacks coming in from the left side while blocking right side. Angle was a bit derpy tho. Don't know what this has to do with For Honor though. Another thread derailed, just like Fallout 4 one lol.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Vibe on June 19, 2015, 04:03:39 pm
I remember that I've blocked attacks coming in from the left side while blocking right side. Angle was a bit derpy tho. Don't know what this has to do with For Honor though. Another thread derailed, just like Fallout 4 one lol.

The point was that For Honor locks your camera on your enemy, thus giving you far less freedom in how you can make your attacks appear (eg mindgames). In the end it's still attack x vs block y, but at least you can confuse the opponent, vastly raising the skill ceiling. Good games do that, Warband and Jedi Knight series for example. Fuck in Jedi Outcast/Academy you could jump, do a somersault while also spinning horizontally like mad and do an attack inbetween all that just so the enemy wouldn't see where the lightsaber is going to come from.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Leshma on June 19, 2015, 04:36:23 pm
You face the opponent and hold the right block, and you will block the attack, the angle doesn't fucking matter.

Depends. If server and you and your opponent are in sync then sure, you will block. But harsh cRPG reality is that doesn't happen all the time because of server issues. Also you can abuse piss poor collision physics of Warband to get around blocks (main reason why shielders get hit so often despite holding raised shield).

Warband is extremely interesting because of those tricks (which are basic skillset of any experienced player aka only way to kill someone in cRPG) but it isn't realistic at all and is very broken because all those skill moves can be classified as animation glitching.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Gravoth_iii on June 19, 2015, 05:14:20 pm
Considering the current pop of cRPG and the attrition rate this mod has had, accusing another game of having un-cRPG-like combat is a compliment.

How exactly? This is just a mod for a game thats not incredibly popular, but even then it has had a pretty steady and nice playerbase for 4+ years, with most players racking up thousands upon thousands of hours played. Its definitely not the graphics, ill tell you that much.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Teeth on June 19, 2015, 05:35:30 pm
This is why obviously every game needs to play like warband and anything different that forces you to face the person you're fighting is bad. Who wants a melee game where you actually have to fight like it's real melee combat?
I am fully aware that lolstrafing and lolfeinting like Warband is retarded, and if you would've read any of my posts about MBG you'd know that I would love to see that the new combat system gets rid of that. However, a targeting system is very unrealistic in itself and leads to retarded duelling fights in the middle of a battle like it is Hollywood. Making a good looking combat system with a targeting system is by far easier, because strafing is controlled, attacks and blocks can be scripted entirely as the angles will always be the same. Still, if you play Dark Souls, The Witcher or Assassins Creed, fighting multiple opponents is weird, and those are singleplayer games. You have to appreciate the genius in Warband's combat system that it has both interesting duelling and fluent teamfighting in multiplayer.

Yes, sacrifices have to be made for visual realism and as skill progresses people will rely more and more on tricks with the mechanics, but at the end of the day a 10 vs 10 battle in Warband looks more like real melee combat than the awkward 10 duels with occasional target switching you would get in For Honor. Both approaches have their unrealisms.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Falka on June 19, 2015, 07:18:29 pm
we have 2 Warband-like games hopefully on the horizon (M:BG and Bannerlord),

If you ask me this horizon seems to be pretty damn far away. Like years away.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: SeQuel on June 19, 2015, 10:12:54 pm
If you ask me this horizon seems to be pretty damn far away. Like years away.

On the horizon, he's not including horizon. lol
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Gnjus on June 20, 2015, 09:03:51 am
(click to show/hide)

We need a MOBA or even Chivalry-like Arena Butchering with Game of Thrones characters.....imagine this setup:

The Hound, The Mountain, Tormund Giantsbane, Brienne & Old Bear Mormont   vs   Thoros of Myr, Grandmeister Pycelle, Littlefinger, Grandmeister Qyburn & Varys.

The hype would be strong in this one......   :oops:
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Falka on June 20, 2015, 07:09:00 pm
On the horizon, he's not including horizon. lol

Don't understand what you're talking about, in polish my sentence sounds okay :P
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Xant on June 20, 2015, 07:48:10 pm
Don't understand what you're talking about, in polish my sentence sounds okay :P
Your sentence was fine, he thought you were talking about the game Horizon being a few years from release, I assume.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Golem on June 20, 2015, 10:44:10 pm
Your sentence was fine, he thought you were talking about the game Horizon being a few years from release, I assume.
I think it's a little more complicated than that Xant. You see, SeQuel thought that Falka thought HESKEYTIME was somehow referring to the game Horizon, which horizon is even more far away than that of Melee and Bannerlord. Then you came with your assumptions and I replied with a perfectly synonymous post, only free of assumptions, speculation and what not.
Title: Re: FORRONOR
Post by: Falka on June 20, 2015, 10:49:21 pm
And I've never even heard of this Horizon game before...  :wink: