FORRONOR

[Radament]

- Char Progression (cRPG)
- Huge Battles (Warband - cRPG - Strategus)
- Animations and Models (For Honor)
- Level Design (For Honor seems quite good)
- Siege Weapons Interaction (Chivalry - cRPG - Warband)
- Modding (Warband)
- Player Customization (cRPG - Chivalry -War of the Roses) 
- Gore (Chivalry)
- Best Community (cRPG)

(click to show/hide)

j/k 

- Crafting (anyone mentioned)
- Persistent World (no , not PW , something like Heroes&Generals)
- PvE for pussies (For Hodor - DTV)

am i asking too much? 

[Teeth]

It is all well and good to create a good one on one combat system with a targeting system, and also much easier, but this game has multiple enemies. The beauty of Warband is that it allows a high degree of control and complexity while leaving your camera under your control at all times as well. What I find the most rewarding moments of Warband are those where you effectively fight multiple opponents, because you can look at them both and steer your blocks and attacks so intuitively.

In this game it seems like your camera will always be centered on one opponent during the fight, so no free camera control. I did see a character smoothly block a second opponent, but what if he comes from behind, you probably have to untarget and retarget or something. Also, targeting systems make combat more rigid, reducing the amount of tricks and mindgames available to the player.

That said, great that Medieval combat games continue to get attention and the animations look pretty crispy. The hud is obtrusive as fuck though.

[Teeth]

I know you are jesting, but a big reason for many people to play this game for so long is that those kind of tricks and mind games are possible. There are only so much moves and strategies you can code into multiplayer medieval combat game with rigid targeting, while remaining accessible and intuitive. Good players will exhaust them fast and get bored if there is nothing else. If Warband allowed only attacks and blocks while looking straight at your opponent, multiplayer would have devolved into a complete numbers game within a year of release.

"Avoiding block detection" is a term baddies use to describe falling for their opponent's mind games.

[Golem]

I always look around if there are any tard wranglers nearby, whenever someone tries to pull that move.

[Vibe]

If it was falling for their mind games, you'd be blocking the wrong way, or not blocking at all. The fact that trick allows you to get *around* their correct block by facing the ground is what makes warband amazing and every possible game ever should aspire to be like it. What we need is for Ubisoft to release a game where only by tilting forward and facing the floor can you be a master of the game and have the most satisfying and immersive duels of all time where all players are constantly presenting their enemies with the backs of their necks - in 1.2 version update they can even patch the bots to do the same. Epic

Now there's a game that the present cRPG community would buy... and no one else (kinda like the vision lots of people here have for M:BG)

you can block floor stabs with down block?

[Vibe]

then what the fuck is the problem, you can't block side swings?

[Gravoth_iii]

If it was falling for their mind games, you'd be blocking the wrong way, or not blocking at all. The fact that trick allows you to get *around* their correct block by facing the ground is what makes warband amazing and every possible game ever should aspire to be like it. What we need is for Ubisoft to release a game where only by tilting forward and facing the floor can you be a master of the game and have the most satisfying and immersive duels of all time where all players are constantly presenting their enemies with the backs of their necks - in 1.2 version update they can even patch the bots to do the same. Epic

Now there's a game that the present cRPG community would buy... and no one else (kinda like the vision lots of people here have for M:BG)

Try facing the guy who's swinging, that helps too, if you are certain you are holding the right block. Facing the ground does not make your swings go through blocks, it just looks slightly confusing.

[Vibe]

If the person is hugging the ground it changes the angle of the animation to sometimes circumvent a sideways block and hit the person you're facing in the back. Angles are relevant in all this but at least since turn rate nerf it's much easier to do in cRPG than native and ignore the standard '4-d' combat system.

This is why obviously every game needs to play like warband and anything different that forces you to face the person you're fighting is bad. Who wants a melee game where you actually have to fight like it's real melee combat?

lmfao no it doesn't, you just got outplayed. As for the game itself, Teeth said it perfectly.

but a big reason for many people to play this game for so long is that those kind of tricks and mind games are possible. There are only so much moves and strategies you can code into multiplayer medieval combat game with rigid targeting, while remaining accessible and intuitive. Good players will exhaust them fast and get bored if there is nothing else. If Warband allowed only attacks and blocks while looking straight at your opponent, multiplayer would have devolved into a complete numbers game within a year of release.

[Vibe]

Yes it does, you just got outplayed. Snap, sweet argument.

You face the opponent and hold the right block, and you will block the attack, the angle doesn't fucking matter. Only thing I see from your comments is crying because someone juked you by sidestepping and you didn't turn fast enough.

Other games that want to be successful may prefer to have features that more than just the cRPG community would enjoy, and create a combat system that looks like a combat system. You are free to remain playing cRPG and make snobbish comments about the inferior combat system of a game that may well be vastly more popular and fun to play (for those people).

Warband combat system looks just fine. There's the added tricks that the better players use that yeah, don't look too realistic. Sure you can opt to make a casual combat system that looks nice, or you can make a good combat system that will attract both beginners and the better players, because it has depth. If you manage to make an easy to learn, hard to master combat system, with tricks and all, while still looking realistic, then all the fucking praise to you, but For Honor is not that.

Considering the current pop of cRPG and the attrition rate this mod has had, accusing another game of having un-cRPG-like combat is a compliment.

Yes it's the combat systems fault, not the fact that this is an old ass mod of an old ass game 

[LordBerenger]

I remember that I've blocked attacks coming in from the left side while blocking right side. Angle was a bit derpy tho. Don't know what this has to do with For Honor though. Another thread derailed, just like Fallout 4 one lol.

[Vibe]

I remember that I've blocked attacks coming in from the left side while blocking right side. Angle was a bit derpy tho. Don't know what this has to do with For Honor though. Another thread derailed, just like Fallout 4 one lol.

The point was that For Honor locks your camera on your enemy, thus giving you far less freedom in how you can make your attacks appear (eg mindgames). In the end it's still attack x vs block y, but at least you can confuse the opponent, vastly raising the skill ceiling. Good games do that, Warband and Jedi Knight series for example. Fuck in Jedi Outcast/Academy you could jump, do a somersault while also spinning horizontally like mad and do an attack inbetween all that just so the enemy wouldn't see where the lightsaber is going to come from.

[Leshma]

You face the opponent and hold the right block, and you will block the attack, the angle doesn't fucking matter.

Depends. If server and you and your opponent are in sync then sure, you will block. But harsh cRPG reality is that doesn't happen all the time because of server issues. Also you can abuse piss poor collision physics of Warband to get around blocks (main reason why shielders get hit so often despite holding raised shield).

Warband is extremely interesting because of those tricks (which are basic skillset of any experienced player aka only way to kill someone in cRPG) but it isn't realistic at all and is very broken because all those skill moves can be classified as animation glitching.

[Gravoth_iii]

Considering the current pop of cRPG and the attrition rate this mod has had, accusing another game of having un-cRPG-like combat is a compliment.

How exactly? This is just a mod for a game thats not incredibly popular, but even then it has had a pretty steady and nice playerbase for 4+ years, with most players racking up thousands upon thousands of hours played. Its definitely not the graphics, ill tell you that much.

[Teeth]

This is why obviously every game needs to play like warband and anything different that forces you to face the person you're fighting is bad. Who wants a melee game where you actually have to fight like it's real melee combat?

I am fully aware that lolstrafing and lolfeinting like Warband is retarded, and if you would've read any of my posts about MBG you'd know that I would love to see that the new combat system gets rid of that. However, a targeting system is very unrealistic in itself and leads to retarded duelling fights in the middle of a battle like it is Hollywood. Making a good looking combat system with a targeting system is by far easier, because strafing is controlled, attacks and blocks can be scripted entirely as the angles will always be the same. Still, if you play Dark Souls, The Witcher or Assassins Creed, fighting multiple opponents is weird, and those are singleplayer games. You have to appreciate the genius in Warband's combat system that it has both interesting duelling and fluent teamfighting in multiplayer.

Yes, sacrifices have to be made for visual realism and as skill progresses people will rely more and more on tricks with the mechanics, but at the end of the day a 10 vs 10 battle in Warband looks more like real melee combat than the awkward 10 duels with occasional target switching you would get in For Honor. Both approaches have their unrealisms.

[Falka]

we have 2 Warband-like games hopefully on the horizon (M:BG and Bannerlord),

If you ask me this horizon seems to be pretty damn far away. Like years away.