cRPG

Strategus => Diplomacy => Topic started by: Lethwin Far Seeker on June 15, 2015, 02:37:01 am

Title: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Lethwin Far Seeker on June 15, 2015, 02:37:01 am
It was recently reported that W0lf of Acre had been spotted in Mithrim territory with 1k heavily armed troops.
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Talanarsis\NSIV and King James were contacted and warned that if the army continued on its course it would be attacked.  Despite this the army continued on its course.
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I spoke continuously James and Talanarsis trying to convince them to stop W0lf.  Their claims may be found in the steam convo's below.  I was eventually redirected to the Acre diplomat Axeman, and I asked James to at least halt W0lf's progress till I could conclude diplomacy with Axeman, preventing an immediate attack.  James was unwilling to do even this and so as he had been ordered, JayJrod attacked the Acre army as it attempted to cross the bridge to Curaw.

For transparency and clarity I am posting the steam conversations between myself and Talanarsis.  James and Axeman were unwilling to disclose their conversations with me.

Conversation with JayJrod:
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Conversation with Talanarsis:
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Conversation with James:




The Claim on Curaw:
Following the War in the North the tundra region was taken by the WotN and held by Mithrim.  An agreement was made with Blue (who had left Acre) which involved Guildmaster_Blue governing Curaw.  Blue was free to use the city however he liked in matters of trade.  So he got to use the SnD and run a trade network which helped us manage our newly acquired territory.  Blue eventually merged with HCE (containing the same clans as KotN) thus breaching our agreed arrangement.  As a result I have recently been engaged in negotiations with Talanarsis.  The negotiations have not come to much but I promised there wouldn't be use of force at least until Thalion, our proper diplomat, had the opportunity to resolve the situation. 

(IN PROGRESS)

Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: njames89 on June 15, 2015, 03:23:33 am
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Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Bryggan on June 15, 2015, 03:27:54 am
Unfortunately I lost my internet yesterday- I even missed the Halmar battle, so I'm playing catch-up.

From the rumours I heard, the Wardens claim Curaw.  I heard this second hand from NSIV.  They seem to think that because the Wardens provided gear to stop an attack by an army that the Wardens provided troops for.  According to the original agreement, the Wardens offered protection in exchange for Blue trading in Warden lands, keeping crime down and providing taxes.

Now I'm hearing from Thalion that 'they gave Curaw to Blue, and he was a just a mere governor.  I'm sure Blue will disagree with that.  And as soon as the Merchants of Curaw joined the Holdy chadzian Empire, Blue forfeited his 'governorship'.

Ok, that happened quite awhile ago.

So I admit I am quite baffled.  An army travelling through neutral territories is attacked.  I don't like this.  I also don't like that Curaw was even considered 'disputed'.  I gave the city to Dirk who gave it to Blue.  The Wardens helped stop an attack that was helped by the Wardens.

Well then...
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 15, 2015, 03:44:45 am
Typical Warden bullshit eh? Poor W0LF, I remember when they attacked me for some crap reason that they had thought up. And it is fairly hilarious to consider Curaw disputed territory. Did you see the siege of Halmar? The Wardens are welcome to try and take it, I"ll be ready sword in hand to send them on their way.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Bryggan on June 15, 2015, 03:54:14 am
I was not notified directly from the Wardens of their silly claim on Curaw.  Talanarsis told me several days ago, and I assumed it was just Warden drunk talk.

Also, if the Wardens were going to enforce a 'no travel zone', they should have posted it in the forums.  Attacking someone who is going to a city you are considering attacking is an act of war.  If JayJrod surrenders his army unconditionally (as in no one shows up for the defender), and the Wardens give up their absurd claim on Curaw, we will consider peace.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Jona on June 15, 2015, 03:57:12 am
If JayJrod surrenders his army unconditionally (as in no one shows up for the defender)

Now there is a proposal that's hard to refuse!
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Bryggan on June 15, 2015, 04:07:06 am
I always look for a nonviolent solution, for I am a man of peace.  Look at the kind offer I gave LCO when they attacked Albus: http://forum.melee.org/diplomacy/apologies-to-lco/

OOPS
I meant the attacker  :oops:
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Lethwin Far Seeker on June 15, 2015, 04:11:20 am
I was not notified directly from the Wardens of their silly claim on Curaw.  Talanarsis told me several days ago, and I assumed it was just Warden drunk talk.

Also, if the Wardens were going to enforce a 'no travel zone', they should have posted it in the forums.  Attacking someone who is going to a city you are considering attacking is an act of war.  If JayJrod surrenders his army unconditionally (as in no one shows up for the defender), and the Wardens give up their absurd claim on Curaw, we will consider peace.

There was no public no travel zone so instead of instant attacking him I contacted you guys with the warning well in advance.  There was ample opportunity to turn back or even just remain stationary till diplomacy had concluded as I proposed but this was refused.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: mcdeath on June 15, 2015, 06:42:22 am


I used to be friends with JayJrod but things have changed now. I declare war eternal on JJ (strat only.)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Thalion_Menelvagor on June 15, 2015, 09:32:20 pm
Typical warden bullshit.? I'm curious what you are referring too? At least we try to be creative, I guess we could always random YOLO, only we aren't Gobblins.  Or I guess it would be preferable to stay afk? Isn't LL like still just attacking HCE because of Acre and James?  Plenty of BS right there.

I'm sure that whoever we attack will probably not like our  reason for attacking them. This is made worse by the lack of diversity on the map. Which we are trying to help change.  Should we attack LL? Well,  they've always been friendly to us so why pull a random dick move? As for the HCE, it is comprised of many of our traditional enemies, many of whom I maintain a great degree of respect for.   Maybe we don't like a big Ole empire  breathing down our neck. Maybe Finnian is just having a bad week and decided to give our royal boarder patrols swat equipment and forgot about the body cams. More likely we are just finishing the job we should have done when  Bryggans kingdom fell.  Perhaps it was a mistake to let a small merchant republic so close to our boarders remain independent  only to fall prey to the allure of Cadizian gold.  Perhaps I should  not have eaten at taco bell.

What ever the reasons, let's have some battles to determine who shall have rightful claim to curaw. It's not like we really out number you or anything. It's more of a risk for us than for you guys.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Doom_Carrot on June 15, 2015, 09:54:49 pm
This looks like a typical miscommunication between a bunch of people.

But whatever, more wars = more fun.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 15, 2015, 10:37:45 pm
Typical warden bullshit.? I'm curious what you are referring too? At least we try to be creative, I guess we could always random YOLO, only we aren't Gobblins.  Or I guess it would be preferable to stay afk? Isn't LL like still just attacking HCE because of Acre and James?  Plenty of BS right there.

I'm sure that whoever we attack will probably not like our  reason for attacking them. This is made worse by the lack of diversity on the map. Which we are trying to help change.  Should we attack LL? Well,  they've always been friendly to us so why pull a random dick move? As for the HCE, it is comprised of many of our traditional enemies, many of whom I maintain a great degree of respect for.   Maybe we don't like a big Ole empire  breathing down our neck. Maybe Finnian is just having a bad week and decided to give our royal boarder patrols swat equipment and forgot about the body cams. More likely we are just finishing the job we should have done when  Bryggans kingdom fell.  Perhaps it was a mistake to let a small merchant republic so close to our boarders remain independent  only to fall prey to the allure of Cadizian gold.  Perhaps I should  not have eaten at taco bell.

What ever the reasons, let's have some battles to determine who shall have rightful claim to curaw. It's not like we really out number you or anything. It's more of a risk for us than for you guys.

I was referring to this battle here: http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=strategusbattlesarchive#!?page=strategusinfobattledetail&id=3729
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Talanarsis on June 15, 2015, 11:37:47 pm
I was referring to this battle here: http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=strategusbattlesarchive#!?page=strategusinfobattledetail&id=3729

That battle was from when WoTN declared war on us for attacking Curaw. They said Blue was their vassal, so I really wouldn't call it "BS"
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Thalion_Menelvagor on June 16, 2015, 12:03:28 am
Not vassal exactly, but we had discussed terms that included protection. While the details were being discussed the attac came, so we chose to act.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Thalion_Menelvagor on June 16, 2015, 12:08:09 am
And tristan, you seem  a little bitter. Never haD anything goes against you personally, just happened to be fighting on different sides. You've always seemed a decent enough chap though, certainly one always up for a  good scrap. 
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: mcdeath on June 16, 2015, 12:26:23 am
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Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Bryggan on June 16, 2015, 01:28:39 am
The problem is that we're both trying to be the good guys.  Wardens because that's what 'warden' means, and we of the HCE because we are trying to show to the community that we are not some mega-faction trying to crush all others as that could cost us a lot in merc support.  But, as the people who know me know, I will not be happy until I can crush all of the strat players under my heel.  Cuz you know, I'm like that (but just don't let the strat community find out).

War was going to happen at sometime, though I'm a little disappointed that Thalion didn't write a nice RP post about it; ie Warden concerns over having an HCE member so close to their borders after they showed their militaristic nature when they crushed the Berserks.  He could have thought of something clever, rather than just a few mumblings that Blue owed them Curaw because they supported him in a defense against an attack that they also supported.

But war seems to have happened, so be it.  It just means Dutchy gets to sit comfortable after his awful loss (I haven't talked to him yet, but WTF!  I keep begging people to attack in small waves cuz with 1000+ the risk is just too damn high.  He disagreed, but he may now have changed his mind), and will have time to rebuild.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: StonedSteel on June 16, 2015, 02:17:53 am
.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Thalion_Menelvagor on June 16, 2015, 02:59:09 am
Bryggan,

You beautiful man, you are quite right. We are both trying to be good guys, and that makes things difficult for both of us, and keeps our PR departments very busy. If only this were not strat we could rest on our laurels and usher in an age of peace and prosperity that could be the dawn of a new era. Build might civilizations that could one day reach the stars. Yet, this is strat. Strat, where war is life and peace is death.

I would gladly have written  you rp, had not my  house  been broken into and my pc stolen. Right in the middle of house and job hunting too, so needless to say my life has been quite busy. When I get my new pc however, and return to this hell men, (and many neck bearded children) call strat, I'll write you up some proper rp. You have my word.


The problem is that we're both trying to be the good guys.  Wardens because that's what 'warden' means, and we of the HCE because we are trying to show to the community that we are not some mega-faction trying to crush all others as that could cost us a lot in merc support.  But, as the people who know me know, I will not be happy until I can crush all of the strat players under my heel.  Cuz you know, I'm like that (but just don't let the strat community find out).

War was going to happen at sometime, though I'm a little disappointed that Thalion didn't write a nice RP post about it; ie Warden concerns over having an HCE member so close to their borders after they showed their militaristic nature when they crushed the Berserks.  He could have thought of something clever, rather than just a few mumblings that Blue owed them Curaw because they supported him in a defense against an attack that they also supported.

But war seems to have happened, so be it.  It just means Dutchy gets to sit comfortable after his awful loss (I haven't talked to him yet, but WTF!  I keep begging people to attack in small waves cuz with 1000+ the risk is just too damn high.  He disagreed, but he may now have changed his mind), and will have time to rebuild.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Jona on June 16, 2015, 03:48:14 am
we of the HCE because we are trying to show to the community that we are not some mega-faction trying to crush all others as that could cost us a lot in merc support.

You've got a lot of merc support you could afford to lose, then rosters might be even.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: mcdeath on June 16, 2015, 05:08:54 am
You've got a lot of merc support you could afford to lose, then rosters might be even.

I think that battle had very even rosters.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Jona on June 16, 2015, 05:14:25 am
Sure, that one did. But those others just last night and the night before weren't. One of Bryggan's commandments is "Thou shalt not gank" and yet we have fights of 25v8 and 35v25, both in favor of HCE.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 16, 2015, 05:22:17 am
Sure, that one did. But those others just last night and the night before weren't. One of Bryggan's commandments is "Thou shalt not gank" and yet we have fights of 25v8 and 35v25, both in favor of HCE.
Not our fault Squids cant be bothered to hire a roster. Its pretty obvious with any effort people can match our roster(i.e that battle where Wardens out numbered us, or the LL battles where we had even).
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: mcdeath on June 16, 2015, 05:28:49 am
HCE generally only has members from HCE mercing for them. When they have battles it is usually more than half HCE members fighting. Of those mercs from HCE only about a quarter of them have positive or even KDs.

Now this isn't always true. There are always statistical outliers that break away from the standard and you cannot account for that.

What I think separates HCE from other factions is that they have mostly HCE members as mercs. While they may not be the most skilled players they follow the orders of the commander and know how to fight together. It is easy to play well as a team than as an individual. You run into that issue when you hire mercs that are not a part of your faction but at the same time you don't have much of a choice because there isn't anyone else.

I completely agree with you that HCE generally has more mercs in battles but at the same time I think that it just a lazy excuse to constantly say that especially when factions like the squids rarely bother to hire people.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: poonerplox2 on June 16, 2015, 06:03:46 am
.

Great addition to the thread
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Jona on June 16, 2015, 06:13:46 am
There is a difference between being too lazy to hire people and simply having no one to hire. No doubt the squids put forth as much effort as you guys did to get mercs for that battles, and yet they were still outnumbered, severely. A lot of people who are just mercs for hire couldn't care less if they missed a battle (especially a "measly 300v300 skirmish"), it's the ones in the faction that care, and will more often than not make an effort to show up. The squids are a largely inactive faction now, leaving only really a few guys within their faction to merc for them... that's 3 guys they got locked in compared to HCE's what... 40? 50? The Wardens went through hell and high water trying to get a roster for tonight's battle, and even after signing up literally everyone in the HoC faction, probably all the active guys in their own (minus Thalion, RIP), a few Berzerks, squids, astralis, and many random mercs (who have also fought for HCE in the past) they managed to get a roster of equal size with HCE. Meanwhile, no doubt the HCE just accepted all their players who noticed they had a fight coming up, and if anything simply sent out a mass-message to remind everyone. The effort ratio was easily 20:1 with the exact same payoff. Not to mention that attackers should always have a few more players to at least give them a chance at victory (due to defender's having a natural advantage), they also had mercs from all over, which as McDeath said, is a problem. You could create 20 multi-accounts, join the battle, plate them up, and just have them keep respawning and that alone would give you a huge advantage since flags can't be capped so long as a defender is nearby, and even afk characters take plenty of time to cut down if they are plated up. Point being, skill means very little if you have a numbers advantage.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: mcdeath on June 16, 2015, 06:17:11 am
I can't tell if I'm arguing with you or agreeing with you Jona.

It's a little bit of both i think
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Jona on June 16, 2015, 06:18:14 am
It's a little bit of both i think

Probably... basically... yeah. Mainly, I was replying to Tristan.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Bryggan on June 16, 2015, 09:32:25 am
The sad thing is is that it is a popularity contest.  The Squids are best known for their trolling and being general dick heads in the forums.  I myself was quite surprised to sit with them in their Team Speak and find them pretty funny, amusing and damn good hosts.  We laughed, we cried, then I got right irate when I saw the shit they posted.  Bastards each and everyone of them, but I do kind of miss them.  Good folk when they weren't being total shit heads.

This first battle against the Wardens seems promising.  They started out with a few more than us, then it gradually evened out.  The terrain was in the defender's favour, and the whole HCE team did a wonderful job of behaving.  As said above somewhere, the average HCE player is not as good as the average anti-HCE player.  But when people listen to their commanders and obey orders, victories can be achieved.  While, once again I stood in awe of the anti-HCE pushes that we experienced in past battles, I am bloody frickin' proud of how the HCE defense stayed together and withdrew even though they could have almost got that kill.

But I gave up on the 'anti-gank idea.  Ganks happen due to random shit, and, while no one likes them (winner or loser), no one will give up their army they spent a month or two building.  I used to believe there was a neutral playerbase that would watch the rosters and try even it out, but that was just a mad pipe dream.

Great job guys, love the way we worked as a team.

But, in other news:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: HappyPhantom on June 16, 2015, 09:42:15 am
Not our fault Squids cant be bothered to hire a roster. Its pretty obvious with any effort people can match our roster(i.e that battle where Wardens out numbered us, or the LL battles where we had even).

I think it's more like - with a lot of work other factions can match your roster. Your's filled with faction members, opposition cobbled together from all over the place. Comes from HCE being by far the biggest faction with more active players.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Bryggan on June 16, 2015, 09:52:36 am
More players, but not the quality mercs.  The old school seem to hate us, so we are comprised of a bunch of a few good players and a lot of noobs.  But we have fun. We always have fun.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Jona on June 16, 2015, 10:08:18 am
But I gave up on the anti-gank idea. Ganks happen due to random shit

Pretty convenient that the only ideal that you've given up is the only one that your faction can achieve, no? Ganks don't happen due to random shit, they happen due to one side heavily outnumbering the other. Sure, merc support for any battle heavily depends on the time of the battle and therefore merc availability ("random shit"), but it still all boils down to the number of mercs at either side's disposal. Not to mention that having in-faction mercs as opposed to mercs grabbed from various other factions/clans typically makes them a lot more likely to be willing to show up at those off-hours. For example, it really doesn't matter so much to me if LL were to lose a fief as it does if HoC did, so why would I stay up for a 3am battle just for to help them out? Surely I would try and make room in my schedule to do it for an HoC battle, though. No doubt this mentality applies to many if not all of the HCE mercs. Therefore, if the Squids have a battle that is on the later side, they sure as heck aren't able to throw together as cohesive a roster as the HCE. Should this stop them from trying to actually make strat interesting by having battles? No, but it most certainly will.

This first battle against the Wardens seems promising. 

You thought this Warden battle showed promise when all it showed me was that even if every single active HoC and Warden showed up, we would have half as many mercs as HCE itself could easily present. This battle only had even rosters due to lucky merc support since the Wardens went true-tryhard in that regard (kudos to them and all who showed up). But lucking out for this past battle is no indication for the future, while in-faction mercs are almost always guaranteed.

More players, but not the quality mercs.

The quality of mercs means nothing, as you yourself said with enough discipline anyone can do well when fighting as a team. And the HCE always has a "team," while everyone fighting them is always a mess of various clans and allegiances. HCE players commonly fight alongside each other, not only in every strat battle but also in regular crpg since you are comprised of only a few different clans, and from what I understand all hang out in only a couple different teamspeaks, regardless. Meanwhile, you're up against random mercs that probably only join the same TS for strat fights, and might very well have fought against each other in their last strat battle.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Bryggan on June 16, 2015, 10:53:40 am
Jona, i am shocked.  You have seen ganks go both ways.  HCE have  been ganked, and we also lost some rather important battles due to inferior rosters.  In fact I was quite concerned over our people being able to deal with such heavy losses.  Wolf's battle was one of the first where we actually killed more than we lost.  Yet you say that is the norm.

No, let us enjoy our victory.  We were outnumbered by 6 at the beginning, then at the end it evened out.  Due to good discipline showed by the members, we won.  No one chased stragglers, no one was drawn out.  We behaved, and despite being outnumbered at the beginning we won.

And yet you have the nerve to call us an uber-faction.

In the past we have had a few 'pity' mercs (I won't mention names), who joined us cuz we were getting stomped.  This was greatly appreciated cuz morale drops when you lose too many fights.  But now we win a couple in a row and you say we are the big ass faction who can steam roll anyone?

One of the best things about our Empire I thought was our resilience against defeat.  We understood we could not win them all, yet we still kept playing and still pushed to win.  And we've had several heart breaking defeats; defeats that earned us the sympathy of our enemies.  And now, now that we won a couple, you say this shit to us?  Hurtful!  Damned hurtful.

The Halmar battle was 30 vs 31.  Wolf's battle was 34 vs 33.  Squids battle was ganked cuz they were Squids.  The first two were awesome battles- the one that make your heart race.  Each push getting oh so close then finally fought off.  Dramatic shit.

So let us enjoy our victories.  While we may be big, we are not initiating wars.  Every fight we had was a defensive one- when one strikes us, we strike back.  Is that so wrong?

So yeah, the Holy chadzian Empire will not tolerate attacks against us.  If you feel you can't take us on, don't hit us.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Jona on June 16, 2015, 11:30:34 am
Sure, there are the even-rostered battles here and there, no doubt. That always leads to fun battles. Being outnumbered by 6 at the beginning of a field defense is not certain defeat by any means, and as we all know it evened out fairly shortly. You did not win that last battle by outnumbering us, no. If anything is to blame for attackers in general having a hard time it is strat's core mechanics not scaling well with the decreasing population of this mod. That said, it sure as heck didn't hurt that you've all fought together countless times, and are each individually invested in the fight. It wasn't so much HCE vs the Wardens as it was HCE vs the ragtag mercenary brigade. But that's a whole 'nother argument about merc quality, I suppose.

I, myself am not trying to belittle your victories here. Well, the ones that were actually decent battles. However, you should expect to reap what you sow, and the amount of vitriol spewed from your guys' side at the end of some battles is downright disgusting, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was indeed someone else's intent. Also, please try and point out the last time the HCE was ganked by someone else, as I am having a hard time recalling any times it has been. A gank is not being outnumbered by maybe 5 guys when you have the advantage of castle walls, or a strong defensive position. A gank is overwhelming your foe quickly so that an otherwise equal battle was over in no time at all, kinda like what happened in the last Squids' battle. And while I wasn't a part of the Asugan siege, it seems like you had 10 more mercs, and nice walls to hide behind to boot. Can't really call it a gank since you didn't sally forth and cap the flags immediately, but you minds well have since no one could hope to take a castle that heavily outnumbered, save for a massive gear advantage.

Keep in mind that at the end of the day, you were the one saying we should all agree to some guidelines in a gentleman's agreement to keep strat alive, no one else was. We mostly all agreed to go along with it, as seen in the punishment of the Berzerks for breaking said guidelines, and yet here you are, breaking your own rules, then going back and saying "Nah, it's all good now, that stuff is fine by me." Well, what if the next guy who raids you says something similar? After all, who is the no-raiding pact really protecting here? HoC has got all its important fiefs garrisoned. LL, the Squids, and the Wardens all seem to as well. Yet the HCE has far more ungarrisoned castles/cities than they have with garrisons. I had a brand new strat player approach me saying how he wanted to just raid one of your guys' castles and then take it for himself, as it "was too tempting an opportunity to pass up." I cautioned him against it, and he finally decided against that action, only to then go back re-think why exactly I had told him that. I mean, raiding is a feature implemented to keep people from stretching themselves too thin and biting off more than they could chew. Clearly, nearly all factions are guilty of doing that since the strat map is simply so large and there are so few of us. Yet really, raiding is also there to give the little guy a chance. Anyone can get some troops, all it takes is some ticks, but getting good gear? That's something that takes a lot of time and effort for one guy, or simply lots of work hours spread amongst a (relatively) large amount of people, as is the case for most factions. So there's this raiding option that gives the little guy the chance to instantly snag a fully-equipped army's worth of gear, all due to the negligence of someone else. It gives the little guy a fighting chance. Any large faction that loses a fief in such a way can easily get it back by sieging their recently lost fief, and it is doubtful that the lone wolf would be able to hold out for long. Does saying this mean I want raiding to become the new norm? No, far from it in fact. But for how long can we expect to uphold our set of guidelines if we individually go about abolishing them whenever it benefits our side alone?
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Thalion_Menelvagor on June 16, 2015, 04:20:15 pm
Anyone want some popcorn?
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Sharpe on June 16, 2015, 04:47:13 pm
Colbert does

(click to show/hide)

(i.e that battle where Wardens out numbered us, or the LL battles where we had even).

Let me just stop you right there, anything Wardens has done in the past can no longer be used against them, seeing as Wardens has split up into independent factions, and Finnian/Thalion are now acting as Mithrim. Its kind of like how whatever the Starks did in the past magically disappeared after they joined/formed the HCE.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 16, 2015, 06:30:01 pm
Colbert does

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Let me just stop you right there, anything Wardens has done in the past can no longer be used against them, seeing as Wardens has split up into independent factions, and Finnian/Thalion are now acting as Mithrim. Its kind of like how whatever the Starks did in the past magically disappeared after they joined/formed the HCE.

Their faction name is literally wardens of the north...
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 16, 2015, 06:55:01 pm
Their faction name is literally wardens of the north...

Same name, new faction.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Balikar on June 16, 2015, 08:01:43 pm
Sure, there are the even-rostered battles here and there, no doubt. That always leads to fun battles. Being outnumbered by 6 at the beginning of a field defense is not certain defeat by any means, and as we all know it evened out fairly shortly. You did not win that last battle by outnumbering us, no. If anything is to blame for attackers in general having a hard time it is strat's core mechanics not scaling well with the decreasing population of this mod. That said, it sure as heck didn't hurt that you've all fought together countless times, and are each individually invested in the fight. It wasn't so much HCE vs the Wardens as it was HCE vs the ragtag mercenary brigade. But that's a whole 'nother argument about merc quality, I suppose.

I need to chime in on this one.  Jona hit it squarely on the head.  Last battle wasn't won through mercs... or troops... I'd say that it was won through tactics, but they were tactics based upon bad core mechanics.  When you can spawn on a donkey, a rouncey, or whatever, and appear at the enemy's flags (ie attackers) you neutralize all the progress the attackers have.  Think about this for a moment.  If one to five defenders spawn at the attackers flags, they don't have to traverse the field.  They cut the attacking party numbers down by a third.  The attackers HAVE to worry about the flag situation. 

In the previous battle, the attackers were winning and pressing hard.  They had 2/3 of the map won, and were getting at the flags.  The attackers had a forward spawn up at the halfway point on the field, and it aided them greatly.  They didn't have to traverse the field.  The defenders shifted their tactic.  I would love clarification on this, as to me it's taking advantage of a glitch in the game... but I'll save that point for later.  They increased the donkey spawning.

Suddenly, the attackers are losing their flags.  The defenders weren't 'slipping out' of the flags.  They were taking advantage of a glitch, and bypassing the forward, and middle lines of the attackers.  Now the attackers have to worry about their rear.  Now the attackers HAVE to cover the ENTIRE field.  They have to protect the rear, they have to protect the middle (Forward spawn) and then continue to press... because if time runs out, the attackers lose.  The defenders don't.  They can be AFK on the flags... attackers can't put them down.  They simply have to wait the battle out. 

So in summary... it's not the mercs, or the roster, or even troop numbers, that can determine a field battle.  It's abusing a game mechanic. 

I realize it's been there for a long time.  Doesn't mean it's right, and doesn't mean it shouldn't get fixed. 
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 16, 2015, 08:09:44 pm
We had like one or two guys spawning on donkeys... Albus and saint were the guys who started capping flags and they just walked around the side. Which wasn't too hard since attack wasn't watching it at all. I know this because I walked around twice to try and set my spawn on the forward spawn
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Thalion_Menelvagor on June 16, 2015, 08:21:59 pm
Teleporting donkeys eh? So basically this is kinda like dragonball z?  We must adjust our tactics to deal with teleporters
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Albus on June 16, 2015, 08:47:42 pm
Spawnin on the donkeys only puts you at the bottom of our hill which was pretty much right in the middle of the battle, didn't spawn me anywhere near the enemy flags. Still had a ways to ride and I got spotted by a cav half the time.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 16, 2015, 09:14:52 pm
Spawnin on the donkeys only puts you at the bottom of our hill which was pretty much right in the middle of the battle, didn't spawn me anywhere near the enemy flags. Still had a ways to ride and I got spotted by a cav half the time.

Heh. It can, you just have to figure out which of your 10 flags does it. 1 flag always sets you up towards the spawn. Noobs. L2Cav spawn in strat. :twisted:
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Balikar on June 16, 2015, 09:54:34 pm
]
Spawnin on the donkeys only puts you at the bottom of our hill which was pretty much right in the middle of the battle, didn't spawn me anywhere near the enemy flags. Still had a ways to ride and I got spotted by a cav half the time.

Not true.  One puts you like 10 feet from the attacker's flags. 

We had like one or two guys spawning on donkeys... Albus and saint were the guys who started capping flags and they just walked around the side. Which wasn't too hard since attack wasn't watching it at all. I know this because I walked around twice to try and set my spawn on the forward spawn

If you think they walked from one end of the fight to the other, then you either A) missed 1-3 people who were donkey spawning, or B) refuse to acknowledge reality.  Attacker's flags were never in danger until AFTER the attackers started putting down enemy flags.  And though you could make it to the forward spawn, for the majority of battle, you never got to land the spawn.  The only time people really got close to landing the spawn was after a donkey spawn.   Why?  Because it was watched.

Sorry Tristan, but you're wrong on this one. 
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 16, 2015, 10:20:12 pm
I never got to your flags because I never tried. I assure you I could have pretty easily without a donkey
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Balikar on June 16, 2015, 11:26:25 pm
I never got to your flags because I never tried. I assure you I could have pretty easily without a donkey

And I assure you, the guys who were pestering the flags weren't going on foot.  ;-)

I get it though.  You'd rather think that you guys did it all on your own, and that no one would resort to anything cheap like that... but they did. 
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 16, 2015, 11:27:15 pm
I never got to your flags because I never tried. I assure you I could have pretty easily without a donkey

IDK, most of your team would walk the long way around or donkey over. Never actually saw any spawns, but I was cav on courser so I was Zoom Zoom Zoom Zoom most the game.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 17, 2015, 12:39:03 am
Things I learned today:
1. Playing with your friends is wrong if you have more friends than other people.
2. HCE always cheats, no matter what. They can never win a battle legitimately. Having friends and using cavalry are both examples of cheating employed by them.
3. They're always the aggressors in a war, even though they've never declared war on anyone.
4. Its only cheating if the HCE does it, if anyone else does it its fair and square(e.g. using horses in strat battles).
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 17, 2015, 01:24:30 am
Things I learned today:
1. Playing with your friends is wrong if you have more friends than other people.
2. HCE always cheats, no matter what. They can never win a battle legitimately. Having friends and using cavalry are both examples of cheating employed by them.
3. They're always the aggressors in a war, even though they've never declared war on anyone.
4. Its only cheating if the HCE does it, if anyone else does it its fair and square(e.g. using horses in strat battles).

1. That's what FCC said.
2. Yup, FCC.
3. Um...Yup more FCC
4. FCC.

So...
Hi Kesh, welcome back to strat!

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Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: StonedSteel on June 17, 2015, 01:31:23 am
wow

look at all these words



i should read some of em.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: mcdeath on June 17, 2015, 01:35:10 am
(click to show/hide)

Reading is hard

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 17, 2015, 01:37:30 am
Wow! :!:

Look at all these words! :shock:


I...I... should...um... read some of them. :oops:

2/10 needs more emphasis.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Jona on June 17, 2015, 01:44:44 am
Things I learned today:
1. Playing with your friends is wrong if you have more friends than other people.
2. HCE always cheats, no matter what. They can never win a battle legitimately. Having friends and using cavalry are both examples of cheating employed by them.
3. They're always the aggressors in a war, even though they've never declared war on anyone.
4. Its only cheating if the HCE does it, if anyone else does it its fair and square(e.g. using horses in strat battles).

1. The rest of us have plenty of friends, but do you see us all in one mega faction?
3. I don't see where anyone is calling HCE the aggressors. In fact, kudos to all aggressors; without them, strat would simply be a trade sim. Playing defensively is the easiest thing to do in the game, and it's all you guys do, as you yourself just admitted. Throwing your tickets at impenetrable walls over and over again gets boring real fast, and HCE has attacked cities/castles how many times?
4. Yeah sure, lemme just go grab the 40 mercs I've got sitting in my back pocket to see how you like getting ganked. Brb.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Balikar on June 17, 2015, 02:06:48 am
Things I learned today:
1. Playing with your friends is wrong if you have more friends than other people.
2. HCE always cheats, no matter what. They can never win a battle legitimately. Having friends and using cavalry are both examples of cheating employed by them.
3. They're always the aggressors in a war, even though they've never declared war on anyone.
4. Its only cheating if the HCE does it, if anyone else does it its fair and square(e.g. using horses in strat battles).

Things I learned from Tristan...

1.  He's warped.

Seriously.

1.  I would like to think we're all friends.  I hold no personal grudges.  Even you go back say, a year ago, you'd see me going after the Squids throats, and they mine.  Now I'm teaming up with them.  It's a game.  Just because you're friends, doesn't mean you have to be on the same side all the time.
2. HCE has won some legitimate battles.  Some were won because their enemies made some grave mistakes.  Some were won through numbers, and sheer roster, and yes, some were won through illegitimate means.
3.  What?
4.  If you spawn with a donkey to ride around as donkey cav, no issue.  If you spawn with a donkey cause it's all you can ride, and you cross a map from one end to another ON THE DONKEY...  no issue.  But if you spawn with a donkey, or any mount, solely to spawn at the enemy flags, which yes, some of your guys did consistently... then you're abusing a mechanic.  It's no different than using a sky ladder.  Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should.  (EDIT:  For the record, I'd say this of my allies, as well of my enemies)

amazing that you can't even agree on that fourth point.  And you're an admin?  Wow.  Just wow. 
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 17, 2015, 02:38:38 am
There's literally no rule against spawning on a horse(or donkey), what does me having to be an admin have to do with anything?

1. The rest of us have plenty of friends, but do you see us all in one mega faction?
3. I don't see where anyone is calling HCE the aggressors. In fact, kudos to all aggressors; without them, strat would simply be a trade sim. Playing defensively is the easiest thing to do in the game, and it's all you guys do, as you yourself just admitted. Throwing your tickets at impenetrable walls over and over again gets boring real fast, and HCE has attacked cities/castles how many times?
4. Yeah sure, lemme just go grab the 40 mercs I've got sitting in my back pocket to see how you like getting ganked. Brb.
1. I dont see anyone saying you cant?
3. Everyone was shitting themselves that we attacked the bezerks after they declared war on us, we've sieged Durrin multiple times, I've attacked tons of villages and Sungetche Castle, Dabirds sieged Uhhun Castle. What has HoC done in the last 5 months? Nothing? Talk shit on the forums? I thought so.
4. Do it
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Sharpe on June 17, 2015, 04:30:32 am
There's literally no rule against spawning on a horse(or donkey), what does me having to be an admin have to do with anything?
1. I dont see anyone saying you cant?
3. Everyone was shitting themselves that we attacked the bezerks after they declared war on us, we've sieged Durrin multiple times, I've attacked tons of villages and Sungetche Castle, Dabirds sieged Uhhun Castle. What has HoC done in the last 5 months? Nothing? Talk shit on the forums? I thought so.
4. Do it

1. Shittiest argument
2. Potato, seriously why did we forget this number
3. Shitting themselves is a pretty bad simplification, more like sick of hypocritical bullshit and blatant disregard for facts, only to be regarded when it suits needs.
4. Nike.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Voncrow on June 17, 2015, 04:55:08 am
2. HCE always cheats, no matter what. They can never win a battle legitimately. Having friends and using cavalry are both examples of cheating employed by them.
3. They're always the aggressors in a war, even though they've never declared war on anyone.

2: In every battle against the hce I've been in, and that's a lot. I've seen them skyladdering and putting shit on flags. Maybe I'm overstating by saying every battle, but it's often enough to make me believe it and that is bullshit enough. For gods sake I've seen Talanarsis skyladder to our forward spawn more than couple times in the same battle a few sieges ago.
3: You guys attacked LL, how can you claim that the state of your former factions don't matter if you say that war with acre was dragged in. Sounds like typical hce hypocrisy I've come to know from you guys.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Talanarsis on June 17, 2015, 05:02:37 am
2: In every battle against the hce I've been in, and that's a lot. I've seen them skyladdering and putting shit on flags. Maybe I'm overstating by saying every battle, but it's often enough to make me believe it and that is bullshit enough. For gods sake I've seen Talanarsis skyladder to our forward spawn more than couple times in the same battle a few sieges ago.
3: You guys attacked LL, how can you claim that the state of your former factions don't matter if you say that war with acre was dragged in. Sounds like typical hce hypocrisy I've come to know from you guys.

2: There was a ladder going over a wall, so I jumped off trying to land on your forward spawn (your forward spawn was right next to the wall)
3: LL declared ETERNAL war on anyone associated with Acre, and Acre and its allies are HCE. We just continued the war they created.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 17, 2015, 05:16:15 am
3: LL declared ETERNAL war on anyone associated with Acre, and Acre and its allies are HCE. We just continued the war they created.

http://forum.melee.org/diplomacy/rogue-millitants-within-the-wotn/msg1144705/#msg1144705

Hypocrisy!
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Bryggan on June 17, 2015, 05:46:50 am
1.  I would like to think we're all friends.  I hold no personal grudges.  Even you go back say, a year ago, you'd see me going after the Squids throats, and they mine.  Now I'm teaming up with them.  It's a game.  Just because you're friends, doesn't mean you have to be on the same side all the time.

WE are all friends, its just people get cranky after a loss.  And it does get tiring losing too many battles in a row.  We have all been there.  And while we may have won the last few, they were all closely fought and could have gone either way.  If Jayjrod's battle had been on flatter ground he definitely would have won.

So my dear enemies, don't fall into despair.  While we'll never purposely lose a battle, we can't win forever.  Most of our fights we have more deaths than our enemies, even when we have a number advantage.  So let's just enjoy the quality of the fights we had and move on to the next one.

And this whole aggressor thing was a joke.  It is done for propaganda purposes only.  I had been talking to Dutchy and sJimmy about our war before we attacked, and Dutchy just took advantage of 'no official declaration' to get us.  It was clever, as we always try to look like the knights in shining armour.  But we were already discussing who we were going to attack next (Dutchy's nightime settings were a little annoying for us- understandable, but annoying) when the Wardens attacked us.  So we tried making the Wardens look bad as they always try to look like the knights in shining armour.  Standard forum bullshit.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Jona on June 17, 2015, 06:50:36 am
There's literally no rule against spawning on a horse(or donkey), what does me having to be an admin have to do with anything?
1. I dont see anyone saying you cant?
3. Everyone was shitting themselves that we attacked the bezerks after they declared war on us, we've sieged Durrin multiple times, I've attacked tons of villages and Sungetche Castle, Dabirds sieged Uhhun Castle. What has HoC done in the last 5 months? Nothing? Talk shit on the forums? I thought so.

1. We aren't forming a mega-carebear-alliance faction because as history has proven, just like raiding, ganking and all that, mega factions kill strat. So sure, we could try to do it, just as easily as we can go and start raiding every single undefended fief you have, but it is probably better off that we didn't. But then you guys, you are doing it, so it is pretty easy to sit back and say "Well if we can do it so can you" not realizing that you have 3/4 of the active strat population already on your side, leaving no one left to even make a mega faction.

3. As Sharpe said, no one was shitting themselves that you guys attacked the Berzerks because you were overly aggressive, and if anything they shat* themselves out of pure shock seeing you go on the offensive. People only got all riled up because here we had a new faction trying to find their footing and you guys counter attacked by completely wiping any and all members of that faction that you could find off the NA map. There is little need to go attacking every single failed-attack army just to send them to EU when they have 0 troops. All it does it set them back further, and make the difficult climb all the more treacherous for newcomers.

Attacking villages is fine and all, but anyone can attack a 200 population village and walk away relatively unscathed. You were able to list THREE castles that you have sieged. Is that really all? I honestly would have even expected more, but wow... if that is really all, that's plain pitiful. If the largest faction has only attacked three castles, well damn, looks like everyone else is getting some extra credit. And as per usual, nice job trying to pull more shit out of your ass, when you already ran out several posts ago. What has HoC done in the past 5 months... hmmmm, well, we were only formed two weeks ago, so that question is kinda hard to answer. So sure, "HoC hasn't done anything in the past 5 months." There I said what you wanted to hear, technically it's correct... but, just lol. Words cannot describe the idiocy of such a question in the first place. What has the HCE done over the course of the last 10 years? Oh, you only formed a matter of months ago, I see, so basically nothing then? Wow, so lame.  :rolleyes:

But if you want a real answer, a few months back HoC tore shit up in the central region when we were part of the Wardens, and of course we correlated with all the attacks led by non-HoC members within our faction. Then the Mithrim guys went afk for a bit, so we decided to do some of our "rogue bandit" styled attacks in the meantime, so that we could get something going. Now that they are back, we decided to split apart the faction in order to pursue our own goals- which for us, was to be more active and simply "attack stuff." Funny how as soon as we split they got themselves involved in a war...

*Shat - the one true past tense of the verb shit.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Balikar on June 17, 2015, 01:05:42 pm
There's literally no rule against spawning on a horse(or donkey), what does me having to be an admin have to do with anything?

Selective enforcement of the rules comes to mind.... ie if my team does it, it's ok, but if the enemy should do it... RAWR!

Also:  At the very top of the strat rules page, it says "When you read the rules, you have to keep Meow's common sense rulen in the back of your mind at all times."

I would think the common sense rule would apply to cav spawning at attacker's flags.  think about it for a minute...  Thing I love about common sense is that you can apply a basic logic to it to see if it should stand. 

Item:  Cav Spawning
Logic:  If the enemy was meant to spawn at your flags, their flags wouldn't be on the other side of the map.  Cav are also already given a distinct speed advantage that helps them traverse the map at a faster speed than a foot soldier (and rightfully so)
Rule Broken:  Mechanics abuse

Also, keep in mind, since you liked pointing out that you've been around since strat 1, at one point, using a sky ladder was 'accepted.'  Then the rule was made,, put in writing, and thus in stone. 
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 17, 2015, 03:26:49 pm
Selective enforcement of the rules comes to mind.... ie if my team does it, it's ok, but if the enemy should do it... RAWR!

Also:  At the very top of the strat rules page, it says "When you read the rules, you have to keep Meow's common sense rulen in the back of your mind at all times."

I would think the common sense rule would apply to cav spawning at attacker's flags.  think about it for a minute...  Thing I love about common sense is that you can apply a basic logic to it to see if it should stand. 

Item:  Cav Spawning
Logic:  If the enemy was meant to spawn at your flags, their flags wouldn't be on the other side of the map.  Cav are also already given a distinct speed advantage that helps them traverse the map at a faster speed than a foot soldier (and rightfully so)
Rule Broken:  Mechanics abuse

Also, keep in mind, since you liked pointing out that you've been around since strat 1, at one point, using a sky ladder was 'accepted.'  Then the rule was made,, put in writing, and thus in stone.
There are three admins on the opposite side(happyphantom, Jona, and desire). I am not usually paying attention to my team since I'm usually looking at yours. Jona has done a fine job of policing my side and I do my best of policing yours. If you have a problem with my abilities as a admin please post it on my feedback page. Thanks
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: StonedSteel on June 17, 2015, 05:10:03 pm
...a shit ton of words
(click to show/hide)


GUUUUUUUUUUUUUYS!!! u lads are losing sight of the bigger picture here, and are wasting time arguing over pointless shit, the REAL and perhaps only point we should even bother discussing...is number 2 and only 2. Which is of course, the discussion, over the Potato.

Posted by: Sharpe
« on: Today at 04:30:32 am »
2. Potato, seriously why did we forget this number


Well said sharpe! for while the other points brought up in this discussion have their place and merit, sharpe has indeed proven once again, we FAR TOO OFTEN, over look the vast value of the humble potato...heres a lil more info to bring you lads up to speed.

The English word potato comes from Spanish patata (the name used in Spain). The Spanish Royal Academy says the Spanish word is a compound of the Taino batata (sweet potato) and the Quechua papa (potato). The name potato originally referred to a type of sweet potato although the two plants are not closely related; in many of the chronicles detailing agriculture and plants, no distinction is made between the two. The 16th-century English herbalist John Gerard used the terms "bastard potatoes" and "Virginia potatoes" for this species, and referred to sweet potatoes as "common potatoes". Potatoes are occasionally referred to as "Irish potatoes" or "white potatoes" in the United States, to distinguish them from sweet potatoes.

The name spud for a small potato comes from the digging of soil (or a hole) prior to the planting of potatoes. The word has an unknown origin and was originally (c. 1440) used as a term for a short knife or dagger, probably related to Dutch spyd or the Latin "spad-" a word root meaning "sword"; cf. Spanish "espada", English "spade" and "spadroon". The word spud traces back to the 16th century. It subsequently transferred over to a variety of digging tools. Around 1845, the name transferred to the tuber itself. The origin of the word "spud" has erroneously been attributed to a 19th-century activist group dedicated to keeping the potato out of Britain, calling itself The Society for the Prevention of an Unwholesome Diet. It was Mario Pei's 1949 The Story of Language that can be blamed for the word's false origin. Pei writes, "the potato, for its part, was in disrepute some centuries ago. Some Englishmen who did not fancy potatoes formed a Society for the Prevention of Unwholesome Diet. The initials of the main words in this title gave rise to spud." Like most other pre-20th century acronymic origins, this is false.

Potato plants are herbaceous perennials that grow about 60 cm (24 in) high, depending on variety, with the leaves dying back after flowering, fruiting and tuber formation. They bear white, pink, red, blue, or purple flowers with yellow stamens. In general, the tubers of varieties with white flowers have white skins, while those of varieties with colored flowers tend to have pinkish skins. Potatoes are mostly cross-pollinated by insects such as bumblebees, which carry pollen from other potato plants, though a substantial amount of self-fertilizing occurs as well. Tubers form in response to decreasing day length, although this tendency has been minimized in commercial varieties.
Potato plants

After flowering, potato plants produce small green fruits that resemble green cherry tomatoes, each containing about 300 seeds. Like all parts of the plant except the tubers, the fruit contain the toxic alkaloid solanine and are therefore unsuitable for consumption. All new potato varieties are grown from seeds, also called "true potato seed", "TPS" or "botanical seed" to distinguish it from seed tubers. New varieties grown from seed can be propagated vegetatively by planting tubers, pieces of tubers cut to include at least one or two eyes, or cuttings, a practice used in greenhouses for the production of healthy seed tubers. Plants propagated from tubers are clones of the parent, whereas those propagated from seed produce a range of different varieties.

here are about 5,000 potato varieties worldwide. Three thousand of them are found in the Andes alone, mainly in Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Chile, and Colombia. They belong to eight or nine species, depending on the taxonomic school. Apart from the 5,000 cultivated varieties, there are about 200 wild species and subspecies, many of which can be cross-bred with cultivated varieties. Cross-breeding has been done repeatedly to transfer resistances to certain pests and diseases from the gene pool of wild species to the gene pool of cultivated potato species. Genetically modified varieties have met public resistance in the United States and in the European Union.

The major species grown worldwide is Solanum tuberosum (a tetraploid with 48 chromosomes), and modern varieties of this species are the most widely cultivated. There are also four diploid species (with 24 chromosomes): S. stenotomum, S. phureja, S. goniocalyx, and S. ajanhuiri. There are two triploid species (with 36 chromosomes): S. chaucha and S. juzepczukii. There is one pentaploid cultivated species (with 60 chromosomes): S. curtilobum. There are two major subspecies of Solanum tuberosum: andigena, or Andean; and tuberosum, or Chilean. The Andean potato is adapted to the short-day conditions prevalent in the mountainous equatorial and tropical regions where it originated; the Chilean potato, however, native to the Chiloé Archipelago, is adapted to the long-day conditions prevalent in the higher latitude region of southern Chile.

The International Potato Center, based in Lima, Peru, holds an ISO-accredited collection of potato germplasm. The international Potato Genome Sequencing Consortium announced in 2009 that they had achieved a draft sequence of the potato genome. The potato genome contains 12 chromosomes and 860 million base pairs, making it a medium-sized plant genome. More than 99 percent of all current varieties of potatoes currently grown are direct descendants of a subspecies that once grew in the lowlands of south-central Chile. Nonetheless, genetic testing of the wide variety of cultivars and wild species affirms that all potato subspecies derive from a single origin in the area of present-day southern Peru and extreme northwestern Bolivia (from a species in the Solanum brevicaule complex).

Most modern potatoes grown in North America arrived through European settlement and not independently from the South American sources; however, at least one wild potato species, Solanum fendleri, is found as far north as Texas and is used in breeding for resistance to a nematode species that attacks cultivated potatoes. A secondary center of genetic variability of the potato is Mexico, where important wild species that have been used extensively in modern breeding are found, such as the hexaploid Solanum demissum, as a source of resistance to the devastating late blight disease. Another relative native to this region, Solanum bulbocastanum, has been used to genetically engineer the potato to resist potato blight.

Potatoes yield abundantly with little effort, and adapt readily to diverse climates as long as the climate is cool and moist enough for the plants to gather sufficient water from the soil to form the starchy tubers. Potatoes do not keep very well in storage and are vulnerable to molds that feed on the stored tubers and quickly turn them rotten, however: crops such as grain can be stored for several years with a low risk of rot. The yield of Calories per acre (about 9.2 million) is higher than that of maize (7.5 million), rice (7.4 million), wheat (3 million), or soybean (2.8 million).

The potato was first domesticated in the region of modern-day southern Peru and extreme northwestern Bolivia between 8000 and 5000 BC. It has since spread around the world and become a staple crop in many countries.

The earliest archaeologically verified potato tuber remains have been found at the coastal site of Ancon (central Peru), dating to 2500 BC.

According to conservative estimates, the introduction of the potato was responsible for a quarter of the growth in Old World population and urbanization between 1700 and 1900. Following the Spanish conquest of the Inca Empire, the Spanish introduced the potato to Europe in the second half of the 16th century. The staple was subsequently conveyed by European mariners to territories and ports throughout the world. The potato was slow to be adopted by distrustful European farmers, but soon enough it became an important food staple and field crop that played a major role in the European 19th century population boom. However, lack of genetic diversity, due to the very limited number of varieties initially introduced, left the crop vulnerable to disease. In 1845, a plant disease known as late blight, caused by the fungus-like oomycete Phytophthora infestans, spread rapidly through the poorer communities of western Ireland, resulting in the crop failures that led to the Great Irish Famine. Thousands of varieties still persist in the Andes however, where over 100 cultivars might be found in a single valley, and a dozen or more might be maintained by a single agricultural household.

The United Nations FAO reports that the world production of potatoes in 2013 was about 368 million tonnes. Just over two thirds of the global production is eaten directly by humans with the rest being fed to animals or used to produce starch. This means that the annual diet of an average global citizen in the first decade of the 21st century included about 33 kg (or 73 lb) of potato. However, the local importance of potato is extremely variable and rapidly changing. It remains an essential crop in Europe (especially eastern and central Europe), where per capita production is still the highest in the world, but the most rapid expansion over the past few decades has occurred in southern and eastern Asia. As of 2007, China led the world in potato production, and nearly a third of the world's potatoes were harvested in China and India. The geographic shift of potato production has been away from wealthier countries toward lower-income areas of the world, although the degree of this trend is ambiguous.

In 2008, several international organizations highlighted the potato's role in world food production, in the face of developing economic problems. They cited its potential derived from its status as a cheap and plentiful crop that grows in a wide variety of climates and locales. Due to perishability, only about 5% of the world's potato crop is traded internationally; its minimal presence in world financial markets contributed to its stable pricing during the 2007–2008 world food price crisis. Thus, the United Nations officially declared 2008 as the International Year of the Potato, to raise its profile in developing nations, calling the crop a "hidden treasure". This followed the International Rice Year in 2004.

The potato contains vitamins and minerals, as well as an assortment of phytochemicals, such as carotenoids and natural phenols. Chlorogenic acid constitutes up to 90% of the potato tuber natural phenols. Others found in potatoes are 4-O-caffeoylquinic acid (crypto-chlorogenic acid), 5-O-caffeoylquinic (neo-chlorogenic acid), 3,4-dicaffeoylquinic and 3,5-dicaffeoylquinic acids.[40] A medium-size 150 g (5.3 oz) potato with the skin provides 27 mg of vitamin C (45% of the Daily Value (DV)), 620 mg of potassium (18% of DV), 0.2 mg vitamin B6 (10% of DV) and trace amounts of thiamin, riboflavin, folate, niacin, magnesium, phosphorus, iron, and zinc.

The potato is best known for its carbohydrate content (approximately 26 grams in a medium potato). The predominant form of this carbohydrate is starch. A small but significant portion of this starch is resistant to digestion by enzymes in the stomach and small intestine, and so reaches the large intestine essentially intact. This resistant starch is considered to have similar physiological effects and health benefits as fiber: It provides bulk, offers protection against colon cancer, improves glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity, lowers plasma cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations, increases satiety, and possibly even reduces fat storage. The amount of resistant starch in potatoes depends much on preparation methods. Cooking and then cooling potatoes significantly increases resistant starch. For example, cooked potato starch contains about 7% resistant starch, which increases to about 13% upon cooling.

The storage and cooking method used can significantly affect the nutrient availability of the potato.

Potatoes are often broadly classified as high on the glycemic index (GI) and so are often excluded from the diets of individuals trying to follow a low-GI diet. In fact, the GI of potatoes can vary considerably depending on type (such as red, russet, white, or King Edward), origin (where it was grown), preparation methods (i.e., cooking method, whether it is eaten hot or cold, whether it is mashed or cubed or consumed whole, etc.), and with what it is consumed (i.e., the addition of various high-fat or high-protein toppings).

In the UK, potatoes are not considered by the NHS as counting towards the five portions of fruit and vegetables diet
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: mcdeath on June 17, 2015, 05:16:54 pm
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Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: StonedSteel on June 17, 2015, 05:17:20 pm
And here is a chart comparing potatoes to other major staple foods

Nutrient content of major staple foods[49] STAPLE:    RDA    Maize / Corn[A]    Rice (white)    Rice (brown)    Wheat[C]    Potato[D]    Cassava[E]    Soybean (Green)[F]    Soybean (dry)    Sweet potato[G]    Sorghum[H]    Yam[Y]    Plantain[Z]
Component -per 100g portion (Unit)    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount    Amount
Water (g)    3000    10    12    10    13    79    60    68    9    77    9    70    65
Energy (kJ)       1528    1528    1549    1369    322    670    615    1866    360    1419    494    511
Protein (g)    50    9.4    7.1    7.9    12.61    2.0    1.4    13    36.5    1.6    11.3    1.5    1.3
Fat (g)       4.74    0.66    2.92    1.54    0.09    0.28    6.8    19.94    0.05    3.3    0.17    0.37
Carbohydrates (g)    130    74    80    77    71    17    38    11    30.16    20    75    28    32
- Fiber (g)    30    7.3    1.3    3.5    12.2    2.2    1.8    4.2    9.3    3    6.3    4.1    2.3
- Sugar (g)       0.64    0.12    0.85    0.41    0.78    1.7    0    7.33    4.18    0    0.5    15
Calcium (mg)    1000    7    28    23    29    12    16    197    277    30    28    17    3
Iron (mg)    8    2.71    0.8    1.47    3.19    0.78    0.27    3.55    15.7    0.61    4.4    0.54    0.6
Magnesium (mg)    400    127    25    143    126    23    21    65    280    25    0    21    37
Phosphorus (mg)    700    210    115    333    288    57    27    194    704    47    287    55    34
Potassium (mg)    4700    287    115    223    363    421    271    620    1714    337    350    816    499
Sodium (mg)    1500    35    5    7    2    6    14    15    2    55    6    9    4
Zinc (mg)    11    2.21    1.09    2.02    2.65    0.29    0.34    0.99    4.89    0.3    0    0.24    0.14
Copper (mg)    0.9    0.31    0.22       0.43    0.11    0.10    0.13    1.7    0.15    -    0.18    0.08
Manganese (mg)    2.3    0.49    1.09    3.74    3.99    0.15    0.38    0.55    2.5    0.26    -    0.40    -
Selenium (μg)    55    15.5    15.1       70.7    0.3    0.7    1.5    17.8    0.6    0    0.7    1.5
Vitamin C (mg)    90    0    0    0    0    19.7    20.6    29    6.0    2.4    0    17.1    18.4
Thiamin (B1)(mg)    1.2    0.39    0.07    0.40    0.30    0.08    0.09    0.44    0.87    0.08    0.24    0.11    0.05
Riboflavin (B2)(mg)    1.3    0.20    0.05    0.09    0.12    0.03    0.05    0.18    0.87    0.06    0.14    0.03    0.05
Niacin (B3) (mg)    16    3.63    1.6    5.09    5.46    1.05    0.85    1.65    1.623    0.56    2.93    0.55    0.69
Pantothenic acid (B5) (μg)    5    0.42    1.01    1.49    0.95    0.30    0.11    0.15    0.793    0.80    -    0.31    0.26
Vitamin B6 (mg)    1.3    0.62    0.16    0.51    0.3    0.30    0.09    0.07    0.377    0.21    -    0.29    0.30
Folate Total (B9) (μg)    400    19    8    20    38    16    27    165    375    11    0    23    22
Vitamin A (IU)    5000    214    0    0    9    2    13    180    22    14187    0    138    1127
Vitamin E, alpha-tocopherol (mg)    15    0.49    0.11    0.59    1.01    0.01    0.19    0    0.85    0.26    0    0.39    0.14
Vitamin K1 (μg)    120    0.3    0.1    1.9    1.9    1.9    1.9    0    47    1.8    0    2.6    0.7
Beta-carotene (μg)    10500    97    0       5    1    8    0    13    8509    0    83    457
Lutein+zeaxanthin (μg)       1355    0       220    8    0    0    0    0    0    0    30
Saturated fatty acids (g)       0.67    0.18    0.58    0.26    0.03    0.07    0.79    2.884    0.02    0.46    0.04    0.14
Monounsaturated fatty acids (g)       1.25    0.21    1.05    0.2    0.00    0.08    1.28    4.4    0.00    0.99    0.01    0.03
Polyunsaturated fatty acids (g)       2.16    0.18    1.04    0.63    0.04    0.05    3.20    11.255    0.01    1.37    0.08    0.07

And lads...thats aint even the HALF of the vast wealth of knowledge that is out there regarding gods great vegetable.

i havent even covered Toxicity, Growth and cultivation, Storage, Yield, Varieties

I mean, lets talk about JUST variety alone, there is a abundant amount of different potatoes, and like the humans they feed each one is special and individualistic in its own way...theres...


    Adirondack Blue
    Adirondack Red
    Agata
    Almond
    Alpine Russet
    Alturas
    Amandine
    Annabelle
    Anya
    Arran Victory
    Atlantic
    Austrian Crescent
    Avalanche
    Bamberg
    Bannock Russet
    Belle de Fontenay
    BF-15
    Bildtstar
    Bintje
    Blazer Russet
    Blue Congo
    Bonnotte
    British Queens
    Cabritas
    Camota
    Canela Russet
    Cara
    Carola
    Chelina
    Chiloé
    Cielo
    Clavela Blanca
    Désirée
    Estima
    Fianna
    Fingerling
    Flava
    French Fingerling
    German Butterball
    Golden Wonder
    Goldrush
    Home Guard
    Innovator
    Irish Cobbler
    Irish Lumper
    Jersey Royal
    Kennebec
    Kerr's Pink
    Kestrel
    Keuka Gold
    King Edward
    Kipfler
    Lady Balfour
    Langlade
    Linda potato
    Marcy
    Marfona
    Maris Piper
    Marquis
    Megachip
    Melody
    Monalisa
    Nicola
    Norgold Russet
    Pachacoña
    Pike
    Pink Eye
    Pink Fir Apple
    Primura
    Ranger Russet
    Ratte
    Record
    Red La Soda
    Red Norland
    Red Pontiac
    Rooster
    Russet Burbank
    Russet Norkotah
    Selma
    Shepody
    Sieglinde
    Silverton Russet
    Sirco
    Snowden
    Spunta
    Up to date
    Stobrawa
    Superior
    Umatilla Russet
    Villetta Rose
    Vivaldi
    Vitelotte
    Yellow Finn
    Yukon Gold

AND I STILL HAVENT COVERED

Genetically modified potatoes, Pesticides, Uses, Culinary uses, Grading, Art and use by country

yall can argue about this game forever, but potatoes and real life is out there.

just sayin
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 17, 2015, 11:29:37 pm
Potatoes?


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Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Balikar on June 18, 2015, 12:57:44 am
Selective enforcement of the rules comes to mind.... ie if my team does it, it's ok, but if the enemy should do it... RAWR!

There are three admins on the opposite side(happyphantom, Jona, and desire). I am not usually paying attention to my team since I'm usually looking at yours. Jona has done a fine job of policing my side and I do my best of policing yours. If you have a problem with my abilities as a admin please post it on my feedback page. Thanks

Thank you for making my point Tristan. 

1)  If your team cheats, you turn a blind eye.
2)  If the other team cheats, you push to punish (Because it hurts your teams' efforts
3)  You want to rely on other people doing your job for you.  I'm sorry, but why have the power if you're going to make others do your job? 
4)  I've seen Jona, and Desire both punish their team, as well as their enemies.
5)  What happens if there is no admin around on the team opposing yours?  Does that give your team Carte Blanche to cheat whenever and however they choose? 
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Bryggan on June 18, 2015, 01:37:30 am
I think what Tristan means is that he is busily fighting enemies, and people on your own team don't yell out, 'Hey, I'm taking advantage of a glitch', whereas they will scream when an enemy is doing it.

But yes, using magic donkey teleport is abusing a glitch, and we'll try stop people on our team from taking advantage of it.

It is a very annoying glitch, and i hated it when I was cav.  I seemed to always spawn in the rush of enemy polearm usurs, or on a very steep hill with range looking down on you.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on June 18, 2015, 06:17:06 am
Thank you for making my point Tristan. 

1)  If your team cheats, you turn a blind eye.
2)  If the other team cheats, you push to punish (Because it hurts your teams' efforts
3)  You want to rely on other people doing your job for you.  I'm sorry, but why have the power if you're going to make others do your job? 
4)  I've seen Jona, and Desire both punish their team, as well as their enemies.
5)  What happens if there is no admin around on the team opposing yours?  Does that give your team Carte Blanche to cheat whenever and however they choose?

Use I chat to point out my team cheating and I'll address it. If you dont report it theres a chance I wont notice, as I'm not omnipotent. Again, if you have feedback on my admin abilities please use my feedback page. If you were at the battle last night, I banned one of my team members and kicked two others, and working on getting another one banned right now. I dont see how that is me not policiing my side.
Title: Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
Post by: Sharpe on June 18, 2015, 01:40:44 pm
I'm glad my point enabled a very thorough education on the mighty tuber.