Author Topic: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked  (Read 5112 times)

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Offline Bryggan

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2015, 09:52:36 am »
+1
More players, but not the quality mercs.  The old school seem to hate us, so we are comprised of a bunch of a few good players and a lot of noobs.  But we have fun. We always have fun.

Offline Jona

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2015, 10:08:18 am »
0
But I gave up on the anti-gank idea. Ganks happen due to random shit

Pretty convenient that the only ideal that you've given up is the only one that your faction can achieve, no? Ganks don't happen due to random shit, they happen due to one side heavily outnumbering the other. Sure, merc support for any battle heavily depends on the time of the battle and therefore merc availability ("random shit"), but it still all boils down to the number of mercs at either side's disposal. Not to mention that having in-faction mercs as opposed to mercs grabbed from various other factions/clans typically makes them a lot more likely to be willing to show up at those off-hours. For example, it really doesn't matter so much to me if LL were to lose a fief as it does if HoC did, so why would I stay up for a 3am battle just for to help them out? Surely I would try and make room in my schedule to do it for an HoC battle, though. No doubt this mentality applies to many if not all of the HCE mercs. Therefore, if the Squids have a battle that is on the later side, they sure as heck aren't able to throw together as cohesive a roster as the HCE. Should this stop them from trying to actually make strat interesting by having battles? No, but it most certainly will.

This first battle against the Wardens seems promising. 

You thought this Warden battle showed promise when all it showed me was that even if every single active HoC and Warden showed up, we would have half as many mercs as HCE itself could easily present. This battle only had even rosters due to lucky merc support since the Wardens went true-tryhard in that regard (kudos to them and all who showed up). But lucking out for this past battle is no indication for the future, while in-faction mercs are almost always guaranteed.

More players, but not the quality mercs.

The quality of mercs means nothing, as you yourself said with enough discipline anyone can do well when fighting as a team. And the HCE always has a "team," while everyone fighting them is always a mess of various clans and allegiances. HCE players commonly fight alongside each other, not only in every strat battle but also in regular crpg since you are comprised of only a few different clans, and from what I understand all hang out in only a couple different teamspeaks, regardless. Meanwhile, you're up against random mercs that probably only join the same TS for strat fights, and might very well have fought against each other in their last strat battle.
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Offline Bryggan

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2015, 10:53:40 am »
+1
Jona, i am shocked.  You have seen ganks go both ways.  HCE have  been ganked, and we also lost some rather important battles due to inferior rosters.  In fact I was quite concerned over our people being able to deal with such heavy losses.  Wolf's battle was one of the first where we actually killed more than we lost.  Yet you say that is the norm.

No, let us enjoy our victory.  We were outnumbered by 6 at the beginning, then at the end it evened out.  Due to good discipline showed by the members, we won.  No one chased stragglers, no one was drawn out.  We behaved, and despite being outnumbered at the beginning we won.

And yet you have the nerve to call us an uber-faction.

In the past we have had a few 'pity' mercs (I won't mention names), who joined us cuz we were getting stomped.  This was greatly appreciated cuz morale drops when you lose too many fights.  But now we win a couple in a row and you say we are the big ass faction who can steam roll anyone?

One of the best things about our Empire I thought was our resilience against defeat.  We understood we could not win them all, yet we still kept playing and still pushed to win.  And we've had several heart breaking defeats; defeats that earned us the sympathy of our enemies.  And now, now that we won a couple, you say this shit to us?  Hurtful!  Damned hurtful.

The Halmar battle was 30 vs 31.  Wolf's battle was 34 vs 33.  Squids battle was ganked cuz they were Squids.  The first two were awesome battles- the one that make your heart race.  Each push getting oh so close then finally fought off.  Dramatic shit.

So let us enjoy our victories.  While we may be big, we are not initiating wars.  Every fight we had was a defensive one- when one strikes us, we strike back.  Is that so wrong?

So yeah, the Holy chadzian Empire will not tolerate attacks against us.  If you feel you can't take us on, don't hit us.

Offline Jona

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2015, 11:30:34 am »
+2
Sure, there are the even-rostered battles here and there, no doubt. That always leads to fun battles. Being outnumbered by 6 at the beginning of a field defense is not certain defeat by any means, and as we all know it evened out fairly shortly. You did not win that last battle by outnumbering us, no. If anything is to blame for attackers in general having a hard time it is strat's core mechanics not scaling well with the decreasing population of this mod. That said, it sure as heck didn't hurt that you've all fought together countless times, and are each individually invested in the fight. It wasn't so much HCE vs the Wardens as it was HCE vs the ragtag mercenary brigade. But that's a whole 'nother argument about merc quality, I suppose.

I, myself am not trying to belittle your victories here. Well, the ones that were actually decent battles. However, you should expect to reap what you sow, and the amount of vitriol spewed from your guys' side at the end of some battles is downright disgusting, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was indeed someone else's intent. Also, please try and point out the last time the HCE was ganked by someone else, as I am having a hard time recalling any times it has been. A gank is not being outnumbered by maybe 5 guys when you have the advantage of castle walls, or a strong defensive position. A gank is overwhelming your foe quickly so that an otherwise equal battle was over in no time at all, kinda like what happened in the last Squids' battle. And while I wasn't a part of the Asugan siege, it seems like you had 10 more mercs, and nice walls to hide behind to boot. Can't really call it a gank since you didn't sally forth and cap the flags immediately, but you minds well have since no one could hope to take a castle that heavily outnumbered, save for a massive gear advantage.

Keep in mind that at the end of the day, you were the one saying we should all agree to some guidelines in a gentleman's agreement to keep strat alive, no one else was. We mostly all agreed to go along with it, as seen in the punishment of the Berzerks for breaking said guidelines, and yet here you are, breaking your own rules, then going back and saying "Nah, it's all good now, that stuff is fine by me." Well, what if the next guy who raids you says something similar? After all, who is the no-raiding pact really protecting here? HoC has got all its important fiefs garrisoned. LL, the Squids, and the Wardens all seem to as well. Yet the HCE has far more ungarrisoned castles/cities than they have with garrisons. I had a brand new strat player approach me saying how he wanted to just raid one of your guys' castles and then take it for himself, as it "was too tempting an opportunity to pass up." I cautioned him against it, and he finally decided against that action, only to then go back re-think why exactly I had told him that. I mean, raiding is a feature implemented to keep people from stretching themselves too thin and biting off more than they could chew. Clearly, nearly all factions are guilty of doing that since the strat map is simply so large and there are so few of us. Yet really, raiding is also there to give the little guy a chance. Anyone can get some troops, all it takes is some ticks, but getting good gear? That's something that takes a lot of time and effort for one guy, or simply lots of work hours spread amongst a (relatively) large amount of people, as is the case for most factions. So there's this raiding option that gives the little guy the chance to instantly snag a fully-equipped army's worth of gear, all due to the negligence of someone else. It gives the little guy a fighting chance. Any large faction that loses a fief in such a way can easily get it back by sieging their recently lost fief, and it is doubtful that the lone wolf would be able to hold out for long. Does saying this mean I want raiding to become the new norm? No, far from it in fact. But for how long can we expect to uphold our set of guidelines if we individually go about abolishing them whenever it benefits our side alone?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 11:37:15 am by Jona »
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Offline Thalion_Menelvagor

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2015, 04:20:15 pm »
+4
Anyone want some popcorn?
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Offline Sharpe

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #35 on: June 16, 2015, 04:47:13 pm »
+3
Colbert does

(click to show/hide)

(i.e that battle where Wardens out numbered us, or the LL battles where we had even).

Let me just stop you right there, anything Wardens has done in the past can no longer be used against them, seeing as Wardens has split up into independent factions, and Finnian/Thalion are now acting as Mithrim. Its kind of like how whatever the Starks did in the past magically disappeared after they joined/formed the HCE.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 04:50:32 pm by Sharpe »
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Offline Tristan_of_Erzoth

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2015, 06:30:01 pm »
0
Colbert does

(click to show/hide)

Let me just stop you right there, anything Wardens has done in the past can no longer be used against them, seeing as Wardens has split up into independent factions, and Finnian/Thalion are now acting as Mithrim. Its kind of like how whatever the Starks did in the past magically disappeared after they joined/formed the HCE.

Their faction name is literally wardens of the north...
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #37 on: June 16, 2015, 06:55:01 pm »
0
Their faction name is literally wardens of the north...

Same name, new faction.
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Offline Balikar

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #38 on: June 16, 2015, 08:01:43 pm »
+1
Sure, there are the even-rostered battles here and there, no doubt. That always leads to fun battles. Being outnumbered by 6 at the beginning of a field defense is not certain defeat by any means, and as we all know it evened out fairly shortly. You did not win that last battle by outnumbering us, no. If anything is to blame for attackers in general having a hard time it is strat's core mechanics not scaling well with the decreasing population of this mod. That said, it sure as heck didn't hurt that you've all fought together countless times, and are each individually invested in the fight. It wasn't so much HCE vs the Wardens as it was HCE vs the ragtag mercenary brigade. But that's a whole 'nother argument about merc quality, I suppose.

I need to chime in on this one.  Jona hit it squarely on the head.  Last battle wasn't won through mercs... or troops... I'd say that it was won through tactics, but they were tactics based upon bad core mechanics.  When you can spawn on a donkey, a rouncey, or whatever, and appear at the enemy's flags (ie attackers) you neutralize all the progress the attackers have.  Think about this for a moment.  If one to five defenders spawn at the attackers flags, they don't have to traverse the field.  They cut the attacking party numbers down by a third.  The attackers HAVE to worry about the flag situation. 

In the previous battle, the attackers were winning and pressing hard.  They had 2/3 of the map won, and were getting at the flags.  The attackers had a forward spawn up at the halfway point on the field, and it aided them greatly.  They didn't have to traverse the field.  The defenders shifted their tactic.  I would love clarification on this, as to me it's taking advantage of a glitch in the game... but I'll save that point for later.  They increased the donkey spawning.

Suddenly, the attackers are losing their flags.  The defenders weren't 'slipping out' of the flags.  They were taking advantage of a glitch, and bypassing the forward, and middle lines of the attackers.  Now the attackers have to worry about their rear.  Now the attackers HAVE to cover the ENTIRE field.  They have to protect the rear, they have to protect the middle (Forward spawn) and then continue to press... because if time runs out, the attackers lose.  The defenders don't.  They can be AFK on the flags... attackers can't put them down.  They simply have to wait the battle out. 

So in summary... it's not the mercs, or the roster, or even troop numbers, that can determine a field battle.  It's abusing a game mechanic. 

I realize it's been there for a long time.  Doesn't mean it's right, and doesn't mean it shouldn't get fixed. 

Offline Tristan_of_Erzoth

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #39 on: June 16, 2015, 08:09:44 pm »
+1
We had like one or two guys spawning on donkeys... Albus and saint were the guys who started capping flags and they just walked around the side. Which wasn't too hard since attack wasn't watching it at all. I know this because I walked around twice to try and set my spawn on the forward spawn
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Offline Thalion_Menelvagor

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2015, 08:21:59 pm »
+1
Teleporting donkeys eh? So basically this is kinda like dragonball z?  We must adjust our tactics to deal with teleporters
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Offline Albus

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2015, 08:47:42 pm »
+1
Spawnin on the donkeys only puts you at the bottom of our hill which was pretty much right in the middle of the battle, didn't spawn me anywhere near the enemy flags. Still had a ways to ride and I got spotted by a cav half the time.
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Offline Lt_Anders

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2015, 09:14:52 pm »
+1
Spawnin on the donkeys only puts you at the bottom of our hill which was pretty much right in the middle of the battle, didn't spawn me anywhere near the enemy flags. Still had a ways to ride and I got spotted by a cav half the time.

Heh. It can, you just have to figure out which of your 10 flags does it. 1 flag always sets you up towards the spawn. Noobs. L2Cav spawn in strat. :twisted:
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Offline Balikar

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2015, 09:54:34 pm »
0
]
Spawnin on the donkeys only puts you at the bottom of our hill which was pretty much right in the middle of the battle, didn't spawn me anywhere near the enemy flags. Still had a ways to ride and I got spotted by a cav half the time.

Not true.  One puts you like 10 feet from the attacker's flags. 

We had like one or two guys spawning on donkeys... Albus and saint were the guys who started capping flags and they just walked around the side. Which wasn't too hard since attack wasn't watching it at all. I know this because I walked around twice to try and set my spawn on the forward spawn

If you think they walked from one end of the fight to the other, then you either A) missed 1-3 people who were donkey spawning, or B) refuse to acknowledge reality.  Attacker's flags were never in danger until AFTER the attackers started putting down enemy flags.  And though you could make it to the forward spawn, for the majority of battle, you never got to land the spawn.  The only time people really got close to landing the spawn was after a donkey spawn.   Why?  Because it was watched.

Sorry Tristan, but you're wrong on this one. 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2015, 10:04:07 pm by Balikar »

Offline Tristan_of_Erzoth

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Re: HCE\Acre army intruding Mithrim teritory- gets attacked
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2015, 10:20:12 pm »
+1
I never got to your flags because I never tried. I assure you I could have pretty easily without a donkey
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