The thing that made the most people stop playing cRPG was when turning got changed, it was (and still is) almost unanimously thought of as a bad change. I have never talked to one even semi decent player who thought it added anything to the game.
If it was reverted, I assure you more people would come back to play because of that 1 change than all the others combined.
If anybody disagrees I recommend you play native multiplayer for a while and feel how much more fluid, and more importantly fun it is playing than cRPG combat is now.
forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/s-key-pls-slow-backpedal/ near the bottom
Got me thinking about whether the turn rate could be improved further with tighter sweetspots in place. The lack of lingering hitboxes already allows for more intuitive fighting, where the strict reduction in turn speed was a roundabout way of accomplishing the same feat. They were later altered, but dragged overheads and stab maneuvering were just as good as ever.
Nowadays, helicopter attacks don't seem as potent as they were before, since players opt to turn around a majority of the way before releasing such an attack instead. As far as exploiting hitboxes are concerned, pointing stabs up/downwards is still potent, and overheads no longer feel off as much. However, one could argue that punishment is deserved if you let an opponent outmaneuver you to such an angle.
Do you think a slight increase in current turn rates would be beneficial, or is the current status just fine? Not an items' change, but the forum is quite inactive.
I'm pretty sure the combat will become fast enough when people get their high levels. Native characters are much slower than most of crpg ones, even when considering levels 30-33 for comparison.
Also with the current turnrate, i have to stab at the sides of people to not glance, but if they just sidestep away i cant turn fast enough to hit them. Its just annoying and stupid.
yep this thread is just NA polearmers wanting a buff to their class because they are terrible at the game lol
Turnrate nerf was the best thing since removing pole stun. Now you actually have to aim before releasing hit and not the other way around.
post your kdrTranslation: Hurdurdur I get good kda while playing cav with neon textures and no bushes/leaves/other things people have to deal with, I am so good, hurdurdur. Also I have a screenshot of a 6.2 kda that I have only posted to show off my huge epenis 5 times, I am so good, I even was once in the mafia, the true deal, hurdurdur.
Translation: Hurdurdur I get good kda while playing cav with neon textures and no bushes/leaves/other things people have to deal with, I am so good, hurdurdur. Also I have a screenshot of a 6.2 kda that I have only posted to show off my huge epenis 5 times, I am so good, I even was once in the mafia, the true deal, hurdurdur.
(Source from http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/cavalry-being-reared-from-the-side/msg1061293/#msg1061293 )
I would enjoy having the possibility to deal with a crowd with 360° attack/defense again, but since it is also linked with other preposterous shit like roflocopter etc, I really dont know if its worth it, especially since we all now played a lot of time with the new turn speed and got used to it.
I would hate modding for this ungrateful community. Probably why it's not patched it that often. You people suck!
Turnrate nerf was the best thing since removing pole stun. Now you actually have to aim before releasing hit and not the other way around.
I never understood why it was needed
At fifteen, I had the will to learn; at thirty, I could stand; at forty, I had no doubts; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding; at sixty, my ears were opened; at seventy, I could do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the square.. who had the great idea?????? that nerf SUCKS HARD. If you want to kill the mod directly turn off the servers please. I was afk months ... i came back and i see that SHIT.What are you on about, the turn rate nerf happened over two years ago.
time to leave the game.
CONGRATZ
Shut up newmy old friend, get back in your youngmy old friend hole.
If the new team, Tydeus, San, and all the buddling little spergs who have popped up like weeds with "ITEM TEAM" or w/e want to really "revive" this mod, its time to get our own server, and revert all the stupid shit cmp did to ruin the legendary Warband combat system that we all played the shit out of a couple years ago.
revert all the stupid shit cmp did to ruin the legendary Warband combat system that we all played the shit out of a couple years ago.Have fun with terribad game design like 2 second arrow stun, polestagger, no teambumps and swinging straight through teammates, dead bodies and objects. That is just what I can remember from the top of my head, I am sure there are more little fixes we have all forgot about, while they are fucking awesome. You must be one ungrateful little twat to be able to completely forget about all the dumb crap that was in Native.
a core feature like "turning while you swing lol wow so fucking unrealistic"Also, sideswings are more restricted in Native than in cRPG.
Have fun with terribad game design like 2 second arrow stun, polestagger, no teambumps and swinging straight through teammates, dead bodies and objects. That is just what I can remember from the top of my head, I am sure there are more little fixes we have all forgot about, while they are fucking awesome. You must be one ungrateful little twat to be able to completely forget about all the dumb crap that was in Native.
Also, sideswings are more restricted in Native than in cRPG.
Sure some of the changes are good. But how many times have you heard "oh that's wse 2.0, so only cmp can change it."Sorry, but you're getting mad over nothing, Smoothrich. When that complaint is made, it means that it's something that can't be done with the native game. It means that, in almost all cases, If you take cmp out of the picture, you still don't get it fixed. cmp, as the creator of WSE, dictates what its capabilities are(by having created them, or not). If there are no functions to allow a certain feature, cmp is the only person who can create them and taking him out of the picture solves absolutely nothing. If something is hardcoded and we want it changed, taking cmp out of the picture solves absolutely nothing.
[...]cmp, as the creator of WSE[...]This is the very important bit people seem to forget...
When that complaint is made
would you tell please, who made it ?Myself and other balancers have said that probably 1000 times in irc, on these forums, in Teamspeaks, in game. Generally it's a reply to someone's request to add/remove/rework a feature.
someone's request
is there some balancers from eu?Urist, Fasader, Gurnisson, Macropus. First two can be thought of as inactive, but that "cmp only" statement has been around for a long time.
what does this mean? whose request?
Gurnisson, Macropus
so u make decisions based on the number of people posting to these topics? how many posts u need to do it? or..how it goes?
and who exactly decides which request need to take into consideration?
so u make decisions based on the number of people posting to these topics? how many posts u need to do it? or..how it goes?What...? Thats not at all how things work or relevant to this conversation. Here, this is an example of when we(balancers) would use that "cmp only" statement:
and who exactly decides which request need to take into consideration?
I don't really understand what makes it so rebalancing, reducing, or removing certain features like the turn rates "wse 2.0 only, no cmp can't do" a thing anyways. Is it because no one knows how to change turn rates on their own, or because cmp refuses to contribute to the mod?...
I don't really understand what makes it so rebalancing, reducing, or removing certain features like the turn rates "wse 2.0 only, no cmp can't do" a thing anyways. Is it because no one knows how to change turn rates on their own, or because cmp refuses to contribute to the mod?It's that no one aside from cmp is currently (in every sense of the word) capable (knowledge, access, etc) of doing it. Then, you have the problem that cmp isn't really in a position to be developing (reverting, is developing) for cRPG, considering he's working full time on M:BG, and they're in a rather important period of the game's development at the moment. It's unreasonable to say "Hey, stop working on that game, risking the financial status and career of everyone involved in the project, so that you can continue developing minor, superficial changes, that aren't even widely approved of by the community."
You must be one ungrateful little twat...to come up with such an unreasonable request.
how do you determine what change will be good and what - not good? is this so obviously for you?As I said, we contemplate them ourselves, if any single balancer thinks it's a good idea, he'll then bring it up to the rest of the balancers where it will be given thorough consideration by all the balancers.
The community didn't want WSE2 standard, so what's cmp going to do?This, 100 times over.
WSE is something that grants modders access to some of the hardcoded stuff.
Do you or the other modders get access to WSE for crpg?Ugh.
Ugh.
Only the tools that have already been developed by cmp in the past. That is what WSE is. It provides tools to change hardcoded stuff. Those who are not cmp, cannot use WSE to create more tools. It doesn't work like that.
Do you or the other modders get access to WSE for crpg?What for?
What for?
chadz and cmp made this and they can do whatever the fuck they want with it. Seriously, every other game mod, the community wouldn't even have an inch of the access this community has to crpg.
Now, if you're implying balancers are incapable or that they're unable to be convinced by those outside of the balance team...do not quite understand what you mean...
Seriously, every other game mod, the community wouldn't even have an inch of the access this community has to crpg.
But cmp made all the turn rate changes with WSE to begin with right? So why can't you use WSE to undo or rebalance it?Because it's not accessible through the module system, the only thing modders have access to. You have to edit the dedicated server files(executable) directly. It's not like opening up a .txt or .py file, changing a 10 to an 8, then simply recompiling with a compiler that comes standard, as part of the module system. These are different leagues of technical savviness, entirely. I can't even really explain it well because it's beyond my technical understanding.
I'm just trying to understand how you come to these changes, really tough changes. i am of the opinion that the game is getting worse - do not blame anyone, just trying to understand what you are guided. but you have brought only link to the crowd of whiners...i mean u need a new players, but not all players even just reading the forumI linked that forum section because that's a place that is, statistically, very likely to see the reply of "can't be done" "it's hardcoded" "only cmp can do that". Those are replies to suggestions, and the suggestions corner, has a high concentration of suggestions. The forum location is irrelevant, you asked who and why. This is both the who(balancers) and some of the why(that forum section as an example).
Keep the polls reasonable and OP clear, no subjective bs about what the community is or isn't or I will be forced to treat this as spam.
Honestly, this thread is just like any other thread complaining about a mechanic, a class, a feature, anything.
You're just unhappy, and we get it, but making a highly subjective and conceit post about how said feature is "unanimously" regarded as the straw that broke cRPG's back is an utter lie grounded in nothing but frustration. It also does nothing but spread negativity, which affects not only the current players but any newcomers who happen to read this thread.
I'm sure you care about the mod, and even the community to some extent, so for your own sake try and realize that a community does not thrive on negative people's complaints and bitching, it thrives on a friendly and forgiving environment where you are allowed to do as you wish as long as you don't do it on the expense of others. If you wish that something was improved, make a constructive, non-emotional and civil thread where your arguments are based on common sense and not butthurt.
I'm sure you wouldn't mind being liked rather than disliked, not many would mind either.
Hell, despite me being one of the most disliked folks in cRPG, I always tried to contribute to a welcoming environment and always was encouraged to keep doing it.
If your fun is being jeopardized by the turn rate nerf, then maybe you should seek out games were having to adapt to new circumstances is frowned upon - like any game from the Call of Duty franchise. Don't shit on people's fun just because your idea of fun is different.
You're right that they can do whatever they want, they already have ruined it pretty badly.
I will love to see Melee Battlegrounds come out to see what the Finished product of a chadz and cmp envisioned game is like. All reports from My Sources in the alpha so far are worse than I could ever imagine..
http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/this-double-hit-business/255/
very interesting topic, thx... i just dont see where it says about only overhead or stab attacks.Sideswing turn rates are very fast and always have been, what even makes you think they got slowed down? If they have been changed from Native at all, they probably have been sped up slightly. I don't have any facts to support this, but as someone who does inverted turn swings all the time, they don't work that well on Native because I can't seem to make the turns.
http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/this-double-hit-business/msg697481/#msg697481
i used a great maul once.it was such a enjoyable weapon before nerf :cry:
just didnt see where it in this or other posts from devshttp://forum.melee.org/announcements/version-0-286/
http://forum.melee.org/announcements/version-0-286/
This is the patch in which the turn rate nerf was first introduced. Though that patch removed polestagger, the turn rate nerf is probably the biggest change, yet it takes 16 pages before Bjord mentions it first, without any word from any dev until then. If you want official dev postsabout which attacks exactly got changed, you can wait a long time. Everybody noticed the changes to stabs and overheads eventually, while nobody noticed any changes to sideswing turn rates, so there is no reason to believe there were any.
2Teeth
I have no reason not to believe you)
the difference in values when changing direction explains what makes the game so antsy for me
thx anyway)
Because its one of the many things cmp scripted up and inserted into the mod without any input from anyone else working on the game, or even telling anyone about it in the first place, a trait of his that frustrates many people trying to volunteer as "balancers" (or trying to enjoy smooth, consistent mechanics while playing..)
And the point I'm trying to make is a lot of these cmp-dictated changes are locked up behind some root access thing that cmp alone has. No one gives a shit if cmp can't be bothered to maintain development of cRPG anymore, he's obviously been a top dog in Warband modding and is trying 2 succeed professionally in game design.
Considering the balance team/volunteer devs seem to be multiplying and patch content somehow actually increasing, along with what looks like a bunch of Nord Invasion devs helping out, maybe it is time for cmp to loosen up some of these things a bit. He can still wield blanket veto power on the modded engine he's cobbled together, but him (or chadz? lol.. jk) should let some of the guys who've stepped up a lot at least like.. do all those custom turn speed changes he talked about 1-2 years ago. Or just remove all turn speed restrictions except for 180+ reach attacks or crushthrough overheads or something.
Yeah. It's this persistent feeling in everything you do when you play cRPG, that it isn't as fun as it can be. You aren't really controlling your character the way you want, but randomly hitting and being defeated by invisible butchered hardcoded limitations into your angles of attack, or "hit activation sweetspots" that have been fucked beyond recognition from Warband values.
And every patch from our balance team just keeps caking more shit on top because the root changes were done by cmp, the lead coder of cRPG, who could think of some kind of idea and script it into the game immediately with secret server side patches. And now its basically a brand new team working on cRPG, but anything once coded by this guy is stuck in the game, even if changes are necessary for balance, because cmp is the AFK dictator dev with the last (and usually only) say in all the mechanics.
Also no one is going to really say anything like this in public, because cmp is their "mod boss" and they would be done, modding with the fishes. You can just tell that all of the nerds posting here with knowledge of game mechanics and dev-work in this mod are just itching4bitching more. Don't be pussies
/snip
Just because the OP doesn't provide feedback in the most constructive way there is, it doesn't mean it has to considered Chamber of Tears material.
As aforementioned, the required WSE2 changes are unlikely to happen. But the likelihood something to happen isn't just low, it is zero if we don't even have a concept. That's why I find it important to keep discussing.
I suggest to make character turn rate a negative function of length with the parameters of weapon weight and total equipment weight. Swashbucklers (e.g. short sword/no shield) in light armor without a ranged weapon and projectiles should have a higher turn rate than a tincan with a long maul, a zero slot shield, a hunting crossbow and bolts.
I don't really understand your point. When I say 'assigning values per weapon' I mean that turn rate becomes a value that a balancer can manually change based on how he thinks the weapon should perform, much like speed rating for example. This has never become the case however, because as far as I am aware it requires breaking compatibility with the old non WSE 2 launcher. Of course the formula does assign individual values, but they are a function of weapon class/length/weight and some weapon types are unfairly penalized.(click to show/hide)
Swashbucklers (e.g. short sword/no shield)...Swashbuckler means shielder, not someone with no shield, bro... Quite literally it means someone whose shield makes noise as he struts, banging against his scabbard. So, yeah, l2english.
I would hate modding for this ungrateful community. Probably why it's not patched it that often. You people suck!
Swashbuckler means shielder, not someone with no shield, bro... Quite literally it means someone whose shield makes noise as he struts, banging against his scabbard. So, yeah, l2english.
Swashbuckler means shielder, not someone with no shield, bro... Quite literally it means someone whose shield makes noise as he struts, banging against his scabbard. So, yeah, l2english.Swashbuckler has evolved a more general meaning aside from it's original namesake, as is common in languages... so yeah l2notbeapettytwat. Even if it didn't, but it did, it has become an accepted term in the cRPG community to describe 1h without shield, because it is much less of a hassle to type.