cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: buy_dsr on January 08, 2011, 06:35:46 pm
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tell me what still drives you to play as an archer
i played for about 1 hour with a level 24 archer and what used to be a fun ride felt really dull and boring
please remind me where is the fun in this class as I can't see any reason to keep going as it is now
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Do something else then
I like archery and I like 1H sword + board, so I do both.
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I play archery because I such at the game either way so it really doesn't matter.
My new love is HA, so not only can I continue on with not killing anyone, but now I can run away and live longer doing it!
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Just go throwing put 100+ wpf in it and 6 or more powerthrow, almost like archery except a little bit less range, faster shooting, and insta-kill with 34 pierce just for javelins, not even talking about jarids and throwing lances.
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Kesh, you're not an archer anymore? This is a sad day :(
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I play archery because I such at the game either way so it really doesn't matter.
My new love is HA, so not only can I continue on with not killing anyone, but now I can run away and live longer doing it!
bla bla said the melee guy without being asked anything
I am asking other players who used to play this class if they are having real issues or they can continue playing this class
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i play it sometimes just hoping this class will be fixed. doesnt matter what anyone says, its nerfed to death. we all know the problem killing someone without shooting a bunch of arrows in his body, although all other ranged classes are able to oneshot. so i can understand you. it fucked up to be an archer these days. and yeah - melees should shut the fuck up. they arent nerfed nearly like archers. know that, because of playing both classes.
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Just go throwing put 100+ wpf in it and 6 or more powerthrow, almost like archery except a little bit less range, faster shooting, and insta-kill with 34 pierce just for javelins, not even talking about jarids and throwing lances.
A couple of points on this argument. You neglected to mention 1/4 the ammo. This means that throwing is a hybrid class, unless you are happy being completely uselss after 2 minutes into the battle, assuming you didn't get shot to pieces carrying 4 stacks of throwing and no shield. Being able to loot ammo off the battlefield is a variable, not a given, and other ranged classes can do it too. So spending points in a primary melee weapon is essential, so what you are mentioning with the 6 PT and 100+ wpf is a high level build, meaning the exception, not the rule.
And when you say "little bit less range", you mean drops like a brass football compared to bolts and arrows. :mrgreen:
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Looks like foot archering is down to the ground, but HAring is still fun, I'm nowhere near as close to the kills I had before (From average 15/3 to 1/6 now), but, it's doable. Not to mention I get either KSs or other archers and peasants, mail and above is out of my killing zone.
And to the guy above, I know some people have as much range as a archer with throwing lances, I've seen someone snipe with them. =D
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Looks like foot archering is down to the ground, but HAring is still fun, I'm nowhere near as close to the kills I had before (From average 15/3 to 1/6), but, it's doable.
And to the guy above, I know some people have as much range as a archer with throwing lances, I've seen someone snipe with them. =D
Hehe, what you most likely saw was a guy that either looked straight up, threw the lance, and got a luck hit, or a guy that hit someone he wasn't aiming at. With the reduced range, and the superslow flight speed, you have to lead quite a long ways ahead of a moving enemy to get a hit. That gives targets that never even knew you threw at them lots of time to change direction, stop, or move behind a barrier, completely oblivious to the fact that you just tried to kill them. :lol:
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i wonder why everyone hates archery but not the less skill needed crossbows ...
unlimited aim time, instant weapon switch and fire and so on, way stronger dmg vs armor / shields and so on ...
so to make it short ... there should be at least recoil on crossbow if you aim longer than 20 or 30s ...
compared to crossbows archery usually takes skill and lot of nerves and luck (often your arrows fly totally elsewhere than where you aim for)
with crossbow that's usually in direction of crosshair ...
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i wonder why everyone hates archery
Let me tell you the meaning of "I hate archers!!!" :
"I tried to play as archer in the past and I sucked"
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Let me tell you the meaning of "I hate archers!!!" :
"I tried to play as archer in the past and I sucked"
this +1
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I did leave my Bow when this patch released! Archery is useless nowadays....
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A couple of points on this argument. You neglected to mention 1/4 the ammo. This means that throwing is a hybrid class, unless you are happy being completely uselss after 2 minutes into the battle, assuming you didn't get shot to pieces carrying 4 stacks of throwing and no shield. Being able to loot ammo off the battlefield is a variable, not a given, and other ranged classes can do it too. So spending points in a primary melee weapon is essential, so what you are mentioning with the 6 PT and 100+ wpf is a high level build, meaning the exception, not the rule.
And when you say "little bit less range", you mean drops like a brass football compared to bolts and arrows. :mrgreen:
Its not true that you cant be thrower only, I am thrower only, 27 strenght, 9 powerthrow, 3 stacks of throwing lances (thats 6 lances) and shield, 127 throwing wpf. I always have more kills then deaths, most of the times i survive battles till end. But still even with throwing lances there are people who survive on shot so i need to shot them again, i tried other throwing weapons, but none is like lance. And its ton of fun. I've been polearmer and archer and i can say beeing thrower is more fun, and i get better scores as thrower.
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Kesh, you're not an archer anymore? This is a sad day :(
One of my alts is ana rcher, but I play it for what its worth. A joke class now where you annoy melee fighters so your allies can kill them. I made my main into 1H/polearm/shiedler/cav and my other main alt into 2h/thrower.
Two points:
1) Javelins are highly effective and 3 stacks is plenty especially on servers with fewer people. Unlike archery you dont need to put every available wpf into archery to stand any chance at being effective so easy to have 100 in throwing and 80 in 2h (more as i level up from 20) Similar build going for 24 str, 12 agi (2 converted points, 5 IF, 7 PS, 8 PT, 4 ATH, 4 WPMSTR). Unlike archery no real nerf for heavy armor so get a lot more health, armor, do more damage... basically just overall easier then archery now.
2) Will do my second heirloom of the khergit bow on my archer alt when retirement comes back, maybe even a third and another one for the second one for bodkin arrows (+2 damage), but archery will remain a clown class until chadz makes changes (but all his fellow programmers are tin cans anti-archers, so not likely). Hell, the only people that benefitted from switching from piercing to cutting is tincans... not noobs, not peasants, not agility builds, not shielders... tincans. Do we really need to buff tincans? Were they some kind of endangered class? Like the elephant and rhino riders?
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Its not true that you cant be thrower only, I am thrower only, 27 strenght, 9 powerthrow, 3 stacks of throwing lances (thats 6 lances) and shield, 127 throwing wpf. I always have more kills then deaths, most of the times i survive battles till end. But still even with throwing lances there are people who survive on shot so i need to shot them again, i tried other throwing weapons, but none is like lance. And its ton of fun. I've been polearmer and archer and i can say beeing thrower is more fun, and i get better scores as thrower.
Yes, but lances aren't the only weapon in the throwing roster. And after you throw your 6 lances, what do you do? Lances are the lolaxe / spamberge of the throwing world, yes they are effective, but like the lolaxe, lolpolehammer (old BoaS) and spamberge, they are a novelty weapon. But unlike the lolaxe/lolpole/spamberge, lances can be negated by the simple act of moving.
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Just go throwing put 100+ wpf in it and 6 or more powerthrow, almost like archery except a little bit less range, faster shooting, and insta-kill with 34 pierce just for javelins, not even talking about jarids and throwing lances.
shhhh :!:
Don't let anyone hear, or throwers will be nerfed into oblivion too.
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bla bla said the melee guy without being asked anything
I am asking other players who used to play this class if they are having real issues or they can continue playing this class
Im pretty sure he was serious but anyways yeah archery is definetely less fun, you barely hurt people and shoot slow as molasses. I just rolled a horse archer however, and even though I am pretty bad its still fun.
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I think the best archery change that could be made right now is to remove the accuracy penalty from power draw. WPF has been stiffly softcapped and with the damage and speed nerfs, archers don't need a double penalty on accuracy. Plus it makes power draw stop working differently than the other Power * skills.
According to my calculations, you need about 175 archery WPF to offset the PD6 you need to use a warbow. You just can't get that much WPF until level 28ish and that's with a 100% focused 18str max agi all points only in WM+PD build. I can't think of another item in the game that you are simply unable to use until that late...can you?
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Im pretty sure he was serious but anyways yeah archery is definetely less fun, you barely hurt people and shoot slow as molasses. I just rolled a horse archer however, and even though I am pretty bad its still fun.
The "slow" shooting does not really trouble me. That just increases the amount of player skill needed (you can make your arrows count) which is a good thing.
I don't understand why both the accuracy and damage nerf was needed. The WPF nerf makes kinda sense to me because headshot snipers are fucking annoying. However: how many of those super-accurate (aka x-th generation) archers did *really* exist before the patch, and why wasn't it enough to remove their retirement WPF-boni?
The damage nerf is a joke. I don't even bother shooting horses any more, and archers were always an important part of anti-cav defense. Well now everyone has to have a pike and watch out for horses themselves - because I cant really help them any longer. Same goes for tincans. After the cut damage, tin-cans have not all that much left that they need to fear - I won't bother shooting them.
Perhaps chadz could enlighten us: would you tell us the resoning behind 3 nerfs at once and why they were necessary?
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Yes, but lances aren't the only weapon in the throwing roster. And after you throw your 6 lances, what do you do? Lances are the lolaxe / spamberge of the throwing world, yes they are effective, but like the lolaxe, lolpolehammer (old BoaS) and spamberge, they are a novelty weapon. But unlike the lolaxe/lolpole/spamberge, lances can be negated by the simple act of moving.
well i tried out jarids, javelins, throwing spears, axes..., well almost every throwing weapon but throwing lances are awsome.
'bout running out of ammo there is one gold rule
When you miss, go there, pick it up and make the second one hit(very important, if not followed you are as good as dead)
and if you somehow end with no weapons just pick up some from battlefield, i survived many times thanks to this, i just pick up some weapon lol
And only throwing weapon worth buying except lances are throwing axes, they are accurate and deal descent dammage
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Archers seriously gotta stop their rage.
It still takes only 2 TWO hits from a lvl 28-30 archer to knock me out. In stead of 1, which was the case with the very top tier archers pre-patch.
:rolleyes:
Just because you are no sniper-gods anymore you cry. Well I'm no Ninja-god with 10 athletics anymore either, and I accept that. Everyone got a nerf.
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Archers seriously gotta stop their rage.
It still takes only 2 TWO hits from a lvl 28-30 archer to knock me out. In stead of 1, which was the case with the very top tier archers pre-patch.
:rolleyes:
Just because you are no sniper-gods anymore you cry. Well I'm no Ninja-god with 10 athletics anymore either, and I accept that. Everyone got a nerf.
You mean 2headshots, cause in the chest it will take 5hits (unless you wear robes). Even on a naked it will take 2hits minimum before he drops.
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Archers seriously gotta stop their rage.
It still takes only 2 TWO hits from a lvl 28-30 archer to knock me out. In stead of 1, which was the case with the very top tier archers pre-patch.
:rolleyes:
Just because you are no sniper-gods anymore you cry. Well I'm no Ninja-god with 10 athletics anymore either, and I accept that. Everyone got a nerf.
Are you a tincan? Are you a horse? Prolly not, right?
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Then check your build and level.
We'll I'm more or less the same as pre-patch. Same armor, no IF, but less HP because 11 less levels.
I swear i'm getting two shotted by some archers now. (And I know they are probably between 28-30 as there should be extremely few lvl 31 guys so soon.
I'm no tin-can or horse of course, but as a damage-meter I testify that archers have a reasonable amount of damage now. There are far fewer tin-cans around as well. You have to choose your battles, and most archers can run away from tin cans. Problem happens when they suffer from tunnelvision and become static targets. Archers should have to play smart like everyone else, and pay for their ranged ability.
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You forget one main point:
As thrower you have to pay upkeep for equipment worth 30k, just for 16 shots. Archer pays what? 10k for his weapons at most. So, throwers have to be 3times as effective as archers. Nerf archers more.
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Let me tell you the meaning of "I hate archers!!!" :
"I tried to play as archer in the past and I sucked"
Or it could mean: I hate archers because they really are annoying?
You don't think that us other melee guys think archers are annoying because we haven't tried being one? I mean :lol:
You mean 2headshots, cause in the chest it will take 5hits (unless you wear robes). Even on a naked it will take 2hits minimum before he drops.
Don't lie to get your point through. You just loose credibility doing that. I've been in light leather and been 1-shotted with 2 IF (to give you all the info)
It's true that archers have indeed been nerfed. Maybe also overnerfed. I wouldn't know as I don't play them. I wouldn't mind them getting a little buff but certainly not back to before the patch.
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Archers seriously gotta stop their rage.
In stead of 1, which was the case with the very top tier archers pre-patch.
:rolleyes:
Just because you are no sniper-gods anymore you cry. Well I'm no Ninja-god with 10 athletics anymore either, and I accept that. Everyone got a nerf.
it was your choice to circle the enemy group in fancy black clothes; if some archer happened to see you it was the natural outcome - you being oneshoted that is - don't you agree?
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You forget one main point:
As thrower you have to pay upkeep for equipment worth 30k, just for 16 shots. Archer pays what? 10k for his weapons at most. So, throwers have to be 3times as effective as archers. Nerf archers more.
Lol, can archer's be nerfed any more? :D
What else can you do to them, make them shoot blind, bent over backwards, using bows bought at Walmart, on 75% off sale with cat whiskers for bow strings? :twisted:
Seriously, in order to know how effective archery is instead of relying on guesses and conjecture we should ask one of the server admins to post the stats for kills and deaths for archery and compare it to the stats before the patch. Gorath posted stats from one of the NA servers once, we should ask him to do it again. If the deaths caused by archery have fallen by a severe precentage then you know archery has been nerfed too much. If the deaths caused by archery have fallen by just a bit then you know archery is still okay. Let's see some evidence before we start crying for archery or against it.
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It's true that archers have indeed been nerfed. Maybe also overnerfed. I wouldn't know as I don't play them. I wouldn't mind them getting a little buff but certainly not back to before the patch.
Noone is expecting that.
It still takes only 2 TWO hits from a lvl 28-30 archer to knock me out. In stead of 1, which was the case with the very top tier archers pre-patch.
Why would you expect to NOT be 1-2 shotted by someone near the level cap if you wear your light ninja armor? How many hits does a 2-hander, polearm or 1-hander need?
I'm no tin-can or horse of course, but as a damage-meter I testify that archers have a reasonable amount of damage now. There are far fewer tin-cans around as well. You have to choose your battles, and most archers can run away from tin cans.
Haha, such shit. I rarely have to run away from tincans, because I stay behind our lines. However, I would like to be able to support my team in softening those hard targets. Same for cavalry. I can't do that any longer. At all.
But no problem. I'll just kill all those rabid peasents (and ninjas) instead. Someone has to do that too.
I think poetrydog, you know nothing about archers. However you play in a way that makes you very vulnerable against archers (which is your own fault). Now you whine and cry and moan on the boards :rolleyes:
Oh well, a normal day in the life of an archer...
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Yeah, archer is kind of overly nerfed in its current state. Like I understand changing it with the patch, but we might have overshot too much guys.
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Archers seriously gotta stop their rage.
It still takes only 2 TWO hits from a lvl 28-30 archer to knock me out. In stead of 1, which was the case with the very top tier archers pre-patch.
:rolleyes:
Just because you are no sniper-gods anymore you cry. Well I'm no Ninja-god with 10 athletics anymore either, and I accept that. Everyone got a nerf.
Well sniping is pretty hard even when ur 5 M away from the enemy now!
And if ur getting killed by 2 hits that kinda weird, i need 4 arrows in my stomach to die on my archer. 37 body armor....
What u mean is: Archers seriously gotta stop being nerfed, i hate ppl whine about archers!
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There is no reason to choose archery now, throwing and xbow is simply better. Takes 5 arrows to kill a horse, or 1xbow or javelin. Since the reticle on the bow is so terrible now you have to get just as close as you do with throwing or xbow.
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You forget one main point:
As thrower you have to pay upkeep for equipment worth 30k, just for 16 shots. Archer pays what? 10k for his weapons at most. So, throwers have to be 3times as effective as archers. Nerf archers more.
What crack are you smoking? My bodkin arrows 2/3 the cost of javelins i use with my 2H/thrower, fill 3 slots with them just liek i dow ith javelins, but the warbow is more expensive by double so its roughly the same cost, but cutting rather than pierce, less damage, slower, and requires far more wpf to be accurate. And upkeep is so ridiculously easy with all my alts since the hotfix it is not a major consideration unless you chase after full black armor or plated charger.
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2) Will do my second heirloom of the khergit bow on my archer alt when retirement comes back, maybe even a third and another one for the second one for bodkin arrows (+2 damage), but archery will remain a clown class until chadz makes changes (but all his fellow programmers are tin cans anti-archers, so not likely). Hell, the only people that benefitted from switching from piercing to cutting is tincans... not noobs, not peasants, not agility builds, not shielders... tincans. Do we really need to buff tincans? Were they some kind of endangered class? Like the elephant and rhino riders?
BS, everyone did. 30 body armour - that's not even the top leather and leather gloves - offers a noticeable reduction (namely, you don't die in one hit like prepatch). Mail? Mail feels fairly protective particularly vs lower end bows - sure warbows and longbows still inspire fear, but again, you don't get oneshot in it (and yes, that wasn't too uncommon either prepatch) by one, and twoshot by a quickfire strongbow.
Especially nowdays when without 4 shield skill you can and will get shot beside the shield, and angle shots are possible, the old archery damage would lead to, well, everyone rolling archers again. And dear god, battles feel refreshing to play these days. Imagine, people actually fight instead of waiting for archers and other ranged to play counterstrike for a few minutes before engaging in melee, and then trying to eliminate the surviving archers running around firing automatic fire railguns at them.
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Archers seriously gotta stop their rage.
It still takes only 2 TWO hits from a lvl 28-30 archer to knock me out. In stead of 1, which was the case with the very top tier archers pre-patch.
:rolleyes:
Just because you are no sniper-gods anymore you cry. Well I'm no Ninja-god with 10 athletics anymore either, and I accept that. Everyone got a nerf.
Was archery a bit much pre-patch? Maybe a little. But we're currently overnerfed. You have the fact that they slowed our animations and shot speed significantly, on top of that our damage is now cut instead of pierce. To top it all off we still have the penalty from PD (No other class receives a penalty to their skill by training in the required skill to be able to use the weapons) which is made worse by the fact that the WPF costs are so incredibly high that we can't afford to do anything BUT Weapon master and PD just to get any WPF to be slightly effective. Add this to the fact that I am a horse archer and need to keep putting points into riding and HA and you have a seriously unbalanced nerf. This isn't the run of the mill bitching, this is a serious problem, it feels like we're shooting spit balls at people.
Archery wasnt OP, what was OP was 10+ gen characters with crazy amounts of WPF bonus points shooting longbows and one-shotting people to the chest wearing mail. With the WPF bonus gone these overboard nerfs are way too rediculous. As i stated in a previous post, the bows have been taken from our hands. Even with this nerf I still have FUN (the main idea here) playing my HA and wouldn't have it any other way. I just wish that when i shoot 25 arrows and land 15+ hits that I have more to show for it than a 0-1 record.
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As a 2Hander, I think archers should get back pierce damage.
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I continue play archer 'cause that's all I know. :(
Still getting kills but more hits required than before.
Returning pierce would be lovely of chadz.
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Im playing as a Polearm dude, and i think archers should be prenerfed!
They cant kill me anymore, pls give them back the old wpf system and pierce dmg! So they are able to kill me, life is boring without archers!
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we only need our pierce back.
Materwork bows and sharp bodkin arrows wont do the trick...and why should we retire 5 times just to have acceptable damage? Retiring 5 times to improve 1 build should make your character a bit OP, not just balanced.
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i think the game would be fine if
1. archers got back the damage type
2. crossbows get time based recoil after let say 10-30s of aim
(approx - depending on weight of the crossbow)
cause crossbow isn't some light stuff to hold and keep infinite aim ....
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Personally, I'd rather archers have their old accuracy back, but not the damage. When a couple arrows can kill you, the pace of the game is crippled. Two full minutes of turtling behind a shield before the round can really start wasn't uncommon. Besides multiple generation champions, they were always my #1 fear. I was also a shield user, which is the supposed counter.
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Personally, I'd rather archers have their old accuracy back, but not the damage. When a couple arrows can kill you, the pace of the game is crippled. Two full minutes of turtling behind a shield before the round can really start wasn't uncommon. Besides multiple generation champions, they were always my #1 fear. I was also a shield user, which is the supposed counter.
I support this only if HAs get accuracy back with it too :)
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I support this only if HAs get accuracy back with it too :)
Why dont u support me on both dmg and accuracy? :(
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Why dont u support me on both dmg and accuracy? :(
I support you, poor thing. ;)
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Bows and arrows aren't supposed to do cut damage. If you want to balance them lower the amount of pierce damage. I like the fact that Morningstar has pierce damage now and because of that decision I don't understand why did you give bows cut damage.
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Archers are strong as they are! A experianced one can take out a horse with 3 arrows! Archers are strong enough as they are, they are at a good speed now! Sure, I tried a archer they seem slow when you are one, but good when your not! I tried a 2 hander and i suked at it when i was one but other people were better! So someone somewhere is better at you at something! Noone is better than everyone at everything! If you dont like it try something else! (when they add retirement) I have tried every class, and found im good at flamberge and cav, but some people are much better. So you cant expect to be the best, someone is always better at something! Stop whining noone likes whiners, but yet everyone does. So just try something else. Archers still do alot of damage, i hate them because they kill me so easily. You see, everyone has a weakness and everyone has a strenght, sometimes you cant find them, but you have them.
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I'm no tin-can or horse of course, but as a damage-meter I testify that archers have a reasonable amount of damage now. There are far fewer tin-cans around as well. You have to choose your battles, and most archers can run away from tin cans. Problem happens when they suffer from tunnelvision and become static targets. Archers should have to play smart like everyone else, and pay for their ranged ability.
I haven't played crpg before the new patches, so I naturally only know what is current. My archer is a pure archer at lvl 23, 18 str, 14 agi - he has 6 PD and 129 WPF. I think that the damage is a little bit on the soft side... I have to hit people ~3 times or four generally to drop them (Longbow, w/ bodkin). That being said I personally don't think that is too bad. Although TRYING to hit someone that many times ends up being fairly difficult...
In my personal opinion it seems that with this poor accuracy the damage needs bumped a bit. OR Keep the damage and bump the accuracy. Also I think changing the damage from pierce to cut is just simply odd. Arrows don't slash, they are going to go THROUGH something. They have a small tip with a load of energy behind them.
Now as for playing smart, obviously I quickly realized I'm not going to take down a tincan. I SHOULD have an option to, it should just be way more difficult... Which it clearly is. I've adapted my play style based on what my character can do. I often just end up trying to hit other archers, horses, or try to pick off people who are running or alone. I've taken down horses on occasion and have scored some lucky headshot across the map that was partly a well placed guess and luck.
What I think of my archer is that he is a very unique and fun character to play, but he just seems dull... One aspect needs to be as sharp as his arrows...
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I often just end up trying to hit other archers, horses,
Archers on my team never seem like they're doing this enough. They might not be such a pain if they'd actually try to cancel each other out more.
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Archers still do alot of damage, i hate them because they kill me so easily. You see, everyone has a weakness and everyone has a strenght, sometimes you cant find them, but you have them.
First off, no we dont. 3 arrows to the heart of a cloth armored peasant is not my idea of a lot of damage.
Second if we kill you too easily you are either A: not moving properly and ending up a nice stationary target for 3-5 shots to the chest, B: Not wearing a helmet and getting domed every time while standing still, or C: It's not really an arrow killing you but a crossbow bolt and you are confusing the symbols in the kill-chart
and Third, if you actually read the posts written by intelligent people who put some actual thought, statistics, and game mechanics behind our argument you may understand why exactly we were over-nerfed.
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This guy hates archery too:
I rolled a thrower alt tonight after finally re-attaining enough levels to use my war bow on my archer main.
Holy poo poo, throwing is loving easy-mode. I started racking up kills by level 5.
In summary: gently caress archery, gently caress chadz, go throwing.
This QQ brought to you by LLJK and SA.
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So what do I do now? M&B cRPG for me is whole world of Archerism, used to be. Now? I try, but unlucky. With all my luck hitting the foes I'm not even getting a kill even having 3 arrows in 'em, this is I'm talking about luck. Without luck,... I can't even hit anybody, my char is so slow. I can't get away from CAVs in time, who actually have been all the time dominating in cRPG, but as an archer I didn't care, 'cause I knew I could deal with them, before, not anymore. Not anymore with anyone. It takes 2 shots to get peasant down, if you're lucky and can hit him or her all this 2 hits. So now I'm just waiting till heirlooming comes back and I have to learn new skill. chadz killed Archer in me with new patch. Amen... 8-)
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So what do I do now? M&B cRPG for me is whole world of Archerism, used to be. Now? I try, but unlucky. With all my luck hitting the foes I'm not even getting a kill even having 3 arrows in 'em, this is I'm talking about luck. Without luck,... I can't even hit anybody, my char is so slow. I can't get away from CAVs in time, who actually have been all the time dominating in cRPG, but as an archer I didn't care, 'cause I knew I could deal with them, before, not anymore. Not anymore with anyone. It takes 2 shots to get peasant down, if you're lucky and can hit him or her all this 2 hits. So now I'm just waiting till heirlooming comes back and I have to learn new skill. chadz killed Archer in me with new patch. Amen... 8-)
Sarranid horse dies to 2 arrows constantly. In tribal warrior armor I die to 2-3 body shots, and 1 headshot without a helmet, 90% hp headshot with klappvisor.
Yes, archers got nerfed. No they're not worthless and inability to get kills is either:
lack of levels
lack of proper build
lack of skill
*Edit: However I do think that arrows could be put back to pierce damage, considering the other nerfs in place for archers. Wouldn't change much vs all of us in light armor, but would let them help out against the armored horses and plate guys a bit more.
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I think we should make a new topic, this Topic doesent show chadz and his Tin-Can fellows our Opinon.
Somethink like "Back to Pierce", "Archer needs Pierce" or "Brosman is nothing without Pierce".
And by the way, if the modder dont turn the damage back to pierce i will play like Cris, spaming arround and delay the rounds until draw (as a Horse Archer)! [just kidding Cris, your playstyle is what chadz overnerf causes to all of US, nothing else left;)]
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well i just dumped 6 Weapon master and I have a grand total of 148 archery; just tested my accuracy and it is terrible while zoom is on(the funny thing is that I only have 4 PD ) also I don't think i can do anything to improve - maybe i can get to 7 Weapon master but that's it
so then ... long distance shots are gone, fire rate is slow they nailed it good this time :P
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I would support one of the following to archery. 1. Increase to base damage of archery, likely through the increase of bow damage. 2. Removal of accuracy loss due to Power Draw, or at the very least lowering the penalty significantly. 3. Switch the damage back to pierce, but lower it. I think any of these would do more to make archers better rounded. I still find archers useful, but I could certainly see how people could complain about it feeling less effective than other ranged classes against heavier armored people. The big problem I have with buffing archery too much is the reduction to shield effectiveness, which would make people who carry a shield to protect against arrows have to get quite a bit of shield skill to actually be relatively safe.
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This guy hates archery too:This QQ brought to you by LLJK and SA.
In before gorath starts to realize how fucking deadly throwers are and lobbies chadz to nerf them too 8-)
Archers are strong as they are! A experianced one can take out a horse with 3 arrows hits!
Fixed that for you. Do you know how hard it is to actually hit a cavalry player who does not play like a retard?
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Currently the archer is not that really bad (depends how good you are) ,i whined alot at start then i realized it just not that bad, with 18/24 build (lvl 30,no ath/PS) im still preety fast and accurate, the only thing that annoys me is that only one hit in 10 HITS with longbow(!) will kill someone, just buff the cut damage/make it pierce and archery will decent. (But still would have almost no advantages over other ranged weapons,but W/E)
And about those ninjas whining about getting killed in two shots, i wonder how do enemy archers survive 3 shots from my warbow? Please explain.
My 2 cents.
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First off, no we dont. 3 arrows to the heart of a cloth armored peasant is not my idea of a lot of damage.
Second if we kill you too easily you are either A: not moving properly and ending up a nice stationary target for 3-5 shots to the chest, B: Not wearing a helmet and getting domed every time while standing still, or C: It's not really an arrow killing you but a crossbow bolt and you are confusing the symbols in the kill-chart
and Third, if you actually read the posts written by intelligent people who put some actual thought, statistics, and game mechanics behind our argument you may understand why exactly we were over-nerfed.
Look, im just trying to be nice. Archers are good, everyone thinks everyone is nerfed! So wont it make sense everyone is equal? Also, have you ever heard of "Loz_outcast"? He is pretty much the greatest archer in the game, he hardly dies and everyone is afraid of him! He also doesnt whine, so he is a respectable and great archer! Try not to whine and find good places to kill people with! Buy a siege ladder go up on a tower, destroy the ladder and shoot from there, Archers are supposed to weaken enemies so they are easier to kill for other people, archers are a great help on the battle field especially when they hit each target at least once! People are grateful for you and that you help them so many times! You destroy the pesky and strong 2 handers and that way the people on your team can take care of the rest! Dont say your weak, your great! I agree the fact that arrows are supposed to pierce, because they, well, pierce. But you are even! you just want more power so you will be the great warlords! But it would not be fair! Also your a whole lot faster than crossbowmen, and it makes sense for a slow thing to be strong. example, Flamberge is slow but does alot of damage, Longsword is really fast but doesnt do as much damage as the flamberge, but they both need teamwork and they cant take on everyone else! Just like archers and crossbowmen!
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Everyone keeps talking about the pierce damage issue. I have to say that although archery got slower and does less damage, the deal breaker for me has been the reduced accuracy. I have a 275 modified WPF and I still can't aim accurately enough to place my shots beyond 30 feet or so. I don't mind not doing much damage, but when I can't hit I don't have fun anymore.
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Everyone keeps talking about the pierce damage issue. I have to say that although archery got slower and does less damage, the deal breaker for me has been the reduced accuracy. I have a 275 modified WPF and I still can't aim accurately enough to place my shots beyond 30 feet or so. I don't mind not doing much damage, but when I can't hit I don't have fun anymore.
To my knowledge, there's no modified WPF for archers anymore. If you have lets say 155 real WPF , you have 155 WPF no matter how low your PD is.
Edit: But of course it can get lower than that by wearing heavier armor or having higher PD.
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I'm levelling a archer atm.
It's fun, although I'm not sure about some of the mechanics, however. For instance, my wpf is nerfed to near-zero by PD/armour (I built str first), is having 0 effective wpf the same thing as having 0 applied wpf? Do I incur any special nerf if I, for instance, have 0 archery wpf and a lot of PD?
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Another thing that I've noticed is the emence amount of 2h people now. Not only do they pay less repair costs since they are using one weapon instead of shield+sword for instance. They've also got alot increased survive ability because of less and less accurate archers. These are kind of secondary effects that you might not think of first but nerfing archers didn't just hit archers badly but it boosted other proffesions as well. A 2h guy can now quite comfortly cross and open area(worese and much less archers) to get to the enemy and start spamming with their high agi builds. At close range Archers are pretty much useless bacuse of their heavy investment and now even heavier investment in ranged skills. This would have been ok, cause archers shall suck in close combat but when it became easier to reached them it ended with a double nerf at least considering their surviveability.
I think few elite and experieced players will acknowledge this but it's just pure logic. They love that archers are so much less powerfull and can't really get them as they move in to finish them of. Many sees killing people with sword as a more "pure" form of killing than ranged. Still hitting a moving target from a distance still require some skill, especially if the target is equiped with a shield. I won't go into discussions about realism and such because it's just not interesting. The interesting thing is to keep the game as balanced as possible and yes, Archers, tincans and cav need some changes to make it more balanced.
I personally mainly play as a shielder atm and i must say that I don't really fear archers at all anymore. I'm mainly killed by 2h gangbangs marily swinging away. I usually end up in the top third of the score board and keep an even K/D ration which I'm quite ok with considering the time I spend playing.
Btw, horses die more easily now mainly because of people using less heavily armored horses.
A Final note: Pls don't ever pull the "- You're just not skilled" shit on anyone cause is just bloody stupid. People who fall back to that misses the fact that the servers would be quite empty if only the "really skilled" players acctually play. You need us that are more casual player of avarage skill to enjoy the game, period. If you want to measure skill go to the duel servers and measure your ***** there please.
Most of us will never be as skilled as you guys are because of different reasons ranging from bad computer equipment, bad connection, casual player to bad mouse day etc. I do really admire you skill and dedication though, it's really enjoyable to see a highly skilled player play at the top of his/her game! (Btw that's one good thing with dying mid round!)
Regards to you all and see you on the battlefield!
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In before gorath starts to realize how fucking deadly throwers are and lobbies chadz to nerf them too 8-)
I see exactly how many fotm throwers there are and how deadly it is, and I think it's fine. I even gave up my throwing to take riding instead this time around. Throwing is fine and all of those kills are justified considering the terrible random "Oh I think I'll veer hard left of your reticule" inaccuracy throwing has. Braeden throws shit into my horse all the time and then throwing axes my head while I'm trying to stand back up.
Throwing is fine.
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I love bows, archers, hunters, rangers and everything like that (books, films, games, all, all, all) and before 0.200 I played archer sooo much, but when the patch 0.200 appeared, i must stop playing archer and i must make a new char, because bow is now useless. Low damage, slow reload, stupid animation.
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Archery was beset by a cancer, every other skill-less noob was rolling archer, grinding to high level, then machinegunning 2hit arrows of doom with super accuracy.
Now, its gotten better, now it actually takes effort to be a good archer. Quit your archer chars, roll 2h, facehug my arrows :)
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Also agree that throwing is fine. Like archers, it takes an extreme skill investment to be accurate, the drop off over range is pretty extreme, and the projectiles move half the speed of arrows/bolts if not less. So throwers have to engage at much closer range, putting themselves at a lot of risk. Also, unless you build as a dedicated thrower with tons of strength and PT, you have to settle for lower damage weapons if you want any accuracy. I have PT 5 and 90 wpf, and I can't throw anything above war dart very accurately. It takes at least 3 hits with snowflakes & darts to bring down anybody that isn't low level and naked. This means it's not uncommon to blow through your entire ammo load without a single kill, and that most people can close the mid-range distance at which you're accurate before you can kill them. And since it's strength based, you're too slow to run away and can easily get torn apart by dedicated melee builds with tons of agility.
Compare to archers who have high ammo loads, get to build lots of agility so they have a chance of running away from trouble, much faster projectiles, much less drop off over range, and faster firing rate than the other two ranged types.
I'm not complaining that throwing is underpowered or anything. I'm just saying there are a lot more trade-offs than most people in this thread are giving credit for. The ranged classes are not nearly as skewed as you think. If archers were to get a damage boost, then they damn well better suffer some of the same penalties as throwers.
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Throwing is fine and all of those kills are justified considering the terrible random "Oh I think I'll veer hard left of your reticule" inaccuracy throwing has. Braeden throws shit into my horse all the time and then throwing axes my head while I'm trying to stand back up.
Throwing is fine.
:idea: Use stones with powerthrow 10
You will be surprised....
Also agree that throwing is fine. Like archers, it takes an extreme skill investment to be accurate, the drop off over range is pretty extreme, and the projectiles move half the speed of arrows/bolts if not less. So throwers have to engage at much closer range, putting themselves at a lot of risk. Also, unless you build as a dedicated thrower with tons of strength and PT, you have to settle for lower damage weapons if you want any accuracy.
This of course too. Well, I'm glad that LLJK_SuperPeasant is save from nerfs at least.
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:idea: Use stones with powerthrow 10
You will be surprised....
lol no I won't. I've had Pik Nik, Scott Ray, Braeden, and other high PT throwers stone me to death. It's hillarious and one of the best parts of throwing.
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It's hillarious and one of the best parts of throwing.
Well, in that we agree 8-)
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I really like archery this patch, much more difficult and satisfying.
My favorite thing about this patch is that it cut down on the ranged spam.
I think Xbows could use a slight accuracy nerf.
Horsearcher is really fun now because you can actually be a light horsearcher without your horse getting killed in .5 seconds
heavy armored people are pretty immune to archers but not everyone is heavy armor with the upkeep and you can use melee and teamwork to finish off the heavies
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Archery was beset by a cancer, every other skill-less noob was rolling archer, grinding to high level, then machinegunning 2hit arrows of doom with super accuracy.
Now, its gotten better, now it actually takes effort to be a good archer. Quit your archer chars, roll 2h, facehug my arrows :)
So what u actually mean is that every archer is a skill-less noob?
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So what u actually mean is that every archer is a skill-less noob?
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Well if thats what u mean...Fuck u! im not skilless, i actually know how to block and kill other melee guys....
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Unfortunately with ALL the admins and developers feeling the same way as Gorath.. its unlikely archers are going to get re-balanced.
In all honestly, they just need the pierce damage back AND a 2-part animation.
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Ragnar, you just built your char wrong for postpatch archery - you want that 6 PD and you want PS, since ranged shooting won't solve everything anymore (and the agi monkeys with a khergit, sure, can run like the wind, but their damage is pitiful in return). I've got 6 PS, a glaive, and 70 polearm wpf (and 118 archery) atm, it's very fun - now building up str for 7 PD / PS on it to see how that will work.
I'm actually planning, now chadz is giving us heirloom respeccing, going to heirloom a bow (not decided yet which one I want though) and glaive on my main and then retire it once again to a archer.
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Ragnar, you just built your char wrong for postpatch archery - you want that 6 PD and you want PS, since ranged shooting won't solve everything anymore (and the agi monkeys with a khergit, sure, can run like the wind, but their damage is pitiful in return). I've got 6 PS, a glaive, and 70 polearm wpf (and 118 archery) atm, it's very fun - now building up str for 7 PD / PS on it to see how that will work.
I'm actually planning, now chadz is giving us heirloom respeccing, going to heirloom a bow (not decided yet which one I want though) and glaive on my main and then retire it once again to a archer.
well i got 140 wpf in archery pd 5, ps 4, if 5, atlethics 5 and WM 5, 20 wpf in 2H atm, and i still dont like playing as a archer, i really dont enjoy it anymore...
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I'm glad that the patch only threw me back to lvl 24. I'm at 26 now and archery is kinda becoming manageable, though significantly weaker, slower, and less accurate. Starting this character from level 1 would have been an absolute nightmare and I don't recommend it for anyone. When I retire I'll probably use all my horded up gold to get some good plate and either make a 2H or cav build.
The triple nerf was too much. Going from too strong to too weak is silly.
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I still disagree with the too weak assessment.
I have tried horsearcher and it is still good, once retirement comes back i'll make foot archer and give my input on that.
Archers in the middle ages didn't just mow down all the enemies with arrows; Once the enemy gets close you need to be able to fight up close also or stay with teammates who can.
I play mostly just archer and I would much prefer if archer was a rare class rather than the 40% archers 40% xbow 10% throwers and only 10% nonranged like it seemed last patch
If you don't like the challenge or don't have fun playing them, don't play them.
I still see lots of archers, we will see if after retirement comes back everyone jumps ship.
Looks like arrows all got damage buff and xbows got nerfed. lower quantities so thats good
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Pre update (the patch after the patch) things were pretty good for my archer/2h. Now those xbows are more expensive, throwers got a LITTLe nerfed, and I got double arrow damage. Bodkins, ftw.
Does my heart good.
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i do not hate archer , but trower ! pure str trower = one shoted... need the same mechanic as archery so they cant be pure str trower animore or be very inaccurate !
100% agreed with this post :
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,785.msg9190/topicseen.html
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I'm here reading, still don't want to play and waiting for at least slight changes :!:
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not true
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You really can't complain now with the damage increase, +4 to damage really bumped it up.
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Happy with my archer after playing him for a couple days :wink:
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Yes, I officially hate archery and arrows in my face.