No thanks.
Why?
Because the playerbase isn't big enough to be split up in two mods.
CRPG team has very good coders, it is perfectly balanced...[/b]
Fear of the unknown.I will say it once more - if developers agree, everyone is able to discuss the concept, you too. And if we doubt in something, we test it in real life.
Because the playerbase isn't big enough to be split up in two mods.
I've read enough
I am totally up with this !
The thing is,there is no such thing as "balanced battle" in real life. Not in medieval times,nor in modern. It was always unbalanced. That unbalance was the reason why technology advanced, people always came up with new ideas to overcome OP shits.
Arrow ---> Plate --->Bodkin Arrow
Lancer ---> Pikeman ---> Plated 2hander ---> Musket
Lots of examples could be given. Balancers killed this game by balancing this game by discarding reality. Want an example ? Cleaver has bonus against shield.
I would totally play realistic cRPG with all weapons have a crushthrough chance in correlation with their weight,lances being broken or stuck in the body once pierced into someone by a cav. Hugely increased glance chance to all armors starting with chain mail. Archery speed and damage buffed.
Armor for instance. In cRPG armor just reduces your incoming damage. This is bullshit,even chain mail is too damn hard to penetrate since flexibility of chains absorb the damage by spreading the force of impact to much greater space but in this game you can penetrate it with everything.
No hold blocks, there is no such thing as blocking without a shield it is fucking parry and it is basically striking your opponent's weapon to deflect the attack in other words,you change the incoming swing's direction to prevent any harm to you. Crossbow reload speed should be increased heavily,remove shield skill requirement to carry a damn shield. Heavily reduce long range accuracy of all ranged,add inaccurate but deadly indirect shots to ranged.More blood & gore for amusement !
mail - bodkin arrow - plate - arbalest
Realistically ranged would be really inefficient against plate armor from a distance, which would allow for tight formations of polearmers who would still be raped by realistically op cav gangs if they left formation and rushed.
Meanwhile the two melee forces approach each other with ever increasing danger from short range ranged and bolder cav, untill the two forces met each other and all hell broke loose. All the while ranged would be doing their best to take out enemy horses, so they might survive by the time melee infantry is too busy to give them couver. It's very possible to achieve this.
You can't create a truly realistic game in the M&B engine. It is a game that mimics medieval combat, not an attempt to realistically model the physics of fighting in real life.
Making the combat "more realistic" in crpg would make it less fun for most people. Even those who would like to try it would find lots of things frustrating and unenjoyable. It would also require a complete rework of all player stats and items from the ground up, and I don't think anyone wants to put that much effort into this idea.
The player population isn't large enough for two separate versions of CRPG.
Realism would destroy the mod me thinks. Whats with all the boners for realism anyways? Its still not going to be very realistic unless you completely change the mod, and then its probably going to be a steaming pile of dog poop anyways. Just changing some weapon stats wont really make the game more realistic.
I play it because its a good mix of balance and some hints of realism compared to other games. More realism at the cost of balance is just poop.
I play it because its a good mix of balance and some hints of realism compared to other games. More realism at the cost of balance is just poop.
It would be a different kind of balance. The game is stuck in an unending spiral of nerfs and tears because sertain concepts where introduced wrong to begin with. You're afraid of the change because you think you might lose something, but each class would be winning a lot too if we where all willing to learn new things with the same engine.WERE
I agree wholeheartedly, and would like to add that once a week players should be obliged to play a Farmville-style minigame where they clip their characters fingernails, or suffer a penalty to WPF (because in real life, it's pretty awkward to have fingernails that are too long).
And if noone wants to do that, I can - I study history in Moscow State University, and I do fencing in real life.
And if we doubt in something, we test it in real life.Ahahah
looking at it as another game.
cav - damage upon dehorsing dependent on speed of horse with possible death, possibility to outright kill someone by ridding them down just right, horses only rear by weapon if they move on lower speeds(otherwise massive damage), horses will hardly ever stop by bumping into ppl, dead horses do damage, headshots on unprotected horses kill them...
inf- crouching!, realistic shield forcefield, plate/partial plate negates most arrows exept bodkins at short ranges, swing damage does very little damage, if at all against full plate(most helmets count as plate) realistic weight of armor, shields are considerable more durable, easy to use(speed) and block everything within its forcefield polearms cannot be sheathed, crushthrough formula for all weapons (PS vs weapon weights)...
ranged- realistic weight, realistic hard limit on accuracy & damage for every bow(less for xbows than bows), most armor does not lower accuracy, drawing speed dependent only on powerdraw(bows & xbows), throwing is devastating against non plate, very limited throwing projectiles & throwing doesn't require much wpf overall, walking sideways while trowing kills accuracy...
battlemap- flag system introduced for tactical movement/ commanders will have small flags above their banners, a flag for each class commander, command is decided either by devs < ammount of successfully commanded battles < voting, to ensure that a capable commander is always present & anyone gets a shot at it if voted on, most maps openfield, in fact battlemap shouldn't be like siege in any way, CLASS BALANCE!
Perhaps a new AI training camp would be necessary to explain each class & weapon's purpose, and teach the battlefield basics so ppl are prepared, and know what's expected.
I meant the actual coding, testing, rebalancing etc. of the entire game. Not just items. Not just crpg things. M&B engine from the ground up. Doing this would require a ton of time. crpg patches would grind to a halt. Melee: Battlegrounds would have to be cancelled. The devs aren't going to do it. You're basically saying "I'm the ideas guy, I'll just give you a list of fighting techniques and facts to keep in mind while you make a videogame for me."
Gameplay > RealismBy the way, if you want an ultra-"realism" game - next time you get wounded, stop playing for 6 months. Next time you die, throw your PC out the window and build another one.(click to show/hide)
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be realistic aspects to the game, it's just that (I know you have all earned degrees in medieval combat) many of these "realism" posts are redundant to say the least.
Add this thread to the graveyard.
Edit: If you only have a problem with some of the weapon statistics Dima, I understand. "Realism" is an often overused and oddly interpreted word to use when describing what it is that you want to change about the game.
Its not all nerfs now, throwing got buffed, a bunch of polearms got 1 more speed etc.
And what are the changes that are needed to make this game more realistic then?
Although i agree with Ronin, the playerbase prefers it because anyone who didnt will have stopped playing here long ago.
Sounds like cav would be complete garbage, 2h + plate would be insanely good and ranged would destroy anything without plate, while wearing plate themselves (unless they have really shit accuracy then people just wouldnt play it). Shielders without forcefield would get shot in the feet or bumped to death. Crushthrough on every weapon, there goes manual blocking being usefull and so everyone will spam.
Commanders dont really work, atleast barely ever in crpg. You can only do so much with a bunch of randomers, such as a shieldwall but those are shit in crpg and would probably stink even more in this.
looking at it as another game.
cav - damage upon dehorsing dependent on speed of horse with possible death, possibility to outright kill someone by ridding them down just right, horses only rear by weapon if they move on lower speeds(otherwise massive damage), horses will hardly ever stop by bumping into ppl, dead horses do damage, headshots on unprotected horses kill them...
inf- crouching!, realistic shield forcefield, plate/partial plate negates most arrows exept bodkins at short ranges, swing damage does very little damage, if at all against full plate(most helmets count as plate) realistic weight of armor, shields are considerable more durable, easy to use(speed) and block everything within its forcefield polearms cannot be sheathed, crushthrough formula for all weapons (PS vs weapon weights)...
ranged- realistic weight, realistic hard limit on accuracy & damage for every bow(less for xbows than bows), most armor does not lower accuracy, drawing speed dependent only on powerdraw(bows & xbows), throwing is devastating against non plate, very limited throwing projectiles & throwing doesn't require much wpf overall, walking sideways while trowing kills accuracy...
battlemap- flag system introduced for tactical movement/ commanders will have small flags above their banners, a flag for each class commander, command is decided either by devs < ammount of successfully commanded battles < voting, to ensure that a capable commander is always present & anyone gets a shot at it if voted on, most maps openfield, in fact battlemap shouldn't be like siege in any way, CLASS BALANCE!
Perhaps a new AI training camp would be necessary to explain each class & weapon's purpose, and teach the battlefield basics so ppl are prepared, and know what's expected.
Ahahah
- Twohanded sword should be stronger!
- No way, shielders are best!
- Fight me IRL!
If by 'balanced' you mean they removed or nerfed everything that annoyed 2handers from native.
I prefer the things the mod has added like nudge, rather than the various reductions and removals from native which was a very satisfying game. After all, mods should add things, not just remove content or dumb down the combat, this is one of the only reasons i'm adamantly against the 'remove rain' threads, it's a random element that influences the gameplay, and yet another thing people want to remove for max easy mode and unvaried gameplay.
Actually, this idea is a good idea but it is bound to fail for cRPG. Because of one reason: The community.
cRPG has evolved a lot. Those who didn't like the changes stopped playing it and only the ones that liked the gameplay did stay. Others probably played other mods or games. That being said, the cRPG community won't welcome such a radical change while the ones playing other games will probably welcome it with open arms. There are always a few exceptions of course. Some examples are the ones agreeing with the suggestion here including me.
So I'd rather encourage everyone agreeing to the suggestion here to continue the realism pursuit in another mod. There are two mods that will suit it more than a realistic gameplay that I know of and both were suffering from low number of players.
-Battle for Europe (at least it is trying to evolve into being a realistic mod and it features a class/level system similar to crpg)
-Vikingr (it's nordic themed native with the most realism I've ever seen)
So my suggestion is. Gather up, stop playing cRPG and stop changing it to a game where the majority of it's community won't like it and start playing those mods.
You're not taking the all thing together into consideration, stop looking at CRPG as a model.
Cav wouldn't be garbage, as it would be able to kill people by ridding over them, this would be an asset in mass charges. The point behind these changes would be to use them in large groups rather than individual fights, yet one could still dodge horses in 1 vs 1 scenarios. 2h wouldn't be insanely good, because swing damage would be realistically inefficient against armor, and they'd still get killed by arbalests, and any of the many kinds of armor damaging weapons that are barely used in crgg because their realistic purpose is overshadowed by the fantasy greatswords here. Shielders without forcefield would only be shot in the feet if someone in the front lines forgot to crouch to cover their all bodies, hence the mechanic, or they could just wear plate boots in a partial plate set. Crushthrough in every weapon would have to be applied realistically, which is why I mentioned a crushthrough formula, since people still blocked in real life. Things like daggers would be able to block now, but they'd still be worthless against two handed weapons. I should have been specific about ranged, their accuracy would remain unaffected by most armor, except the best, and they'd not destroy everything without plate, anyone not wearing plate would be carrying a shield, unless they were ranged themselves or horses. someone without any kind of decent protection wouldn't last long in the battlefield, as it should be, though shield formations would still make any ranged attacks useless, and any peasant hiding behind would be safe.
There would be no randomers in a game that demands teamplay for victory(not for long), and I mentioned a training camp to explain the basics to everyone.
What Im proposing is a next gen in the franchise, what CRPG could have been if it wasn't balanced wrong from the beggining.
You have to keep an open mind to these things.
The main dev's are working on a different project. They do not have time to make a slightly different version of this mod. And like others said, it would split the player base, and lastly, it's not even possible to make a "realistic" medieval fighting game with the M&B Warband engine.
I honestly suggest waiting for another game (possibly the dev's next project) then modding that. Of course, aspects that support both realism and balance are best, but there are many parts of the Warband engine that are counterintuitive to it, especially since it was designed as a single player experience at first.
crpg is a arcade game if u want to make it realistic u will ruin the game that is known..... maybe for a separate game but you could never do this to crpg it would completely destroy the game we love. Not saying it is a bad idea its just that crpg is fun because it isnt realistic balance makes this game unrealistic yes but realism brings many problems my friend i like your idea tho it will never happen period to this mod also as if crpg engine could even handle huge changes.
I honestly suggest waiting for another game (possibly the dev's next project) then modding that. Of course, aspects that support both realism and balance are best, but there are many parts of the Warband engine that are counterintuitive to it, especially since it was designed as a single player experience at first.
Unless you're cmp with direct access to WSE, it will be quite difficult to shape the gameplay how you want. I was just trying to say that it would be easier with future games that are better designed around modularity instead of relying on workarounds/unchangeable annoyances with the Warband engine.