cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: no_rules_just_play on November 20, 2013, 10:57:37 pm

Title: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on November 20, 2013, 10:57:37 pm
So I'll start with stating that I did not yet get a chance to play or even set my new stats because of internet problems. But since the new patch came out, I'm afraid that once I do I will be immensely disappointed.
I have always played my 15/24 build (that recently became pole/shielder hybrid) and with the right weapon choice (and I also want to claim some skill on my side), I have always been quite effective.
I was 'that' agiwhore and I loved it. My build was perfect for having fun and trolling around by spamming people or totally surprising them by using the most annoying tricks and abusive tactics. I was faster than most people and had a specific role in the community directly related to that speed.

Now, from what I have heard and what I fear is that I won't be alone anymore. I will no longer have fun because of my fast build because everyone else about as fast. The community maybe lost another OP class, but with it we lost a class that was very fun to fight and now the choice of valid builds just got smaller.

If I finally manage to play and find that my fears have become reality I will strongly consider asking for an actual redo of the str nerf. For now I'll have to take enough wih the opiniob of others
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on November 20, 2013, 10:58:35 pm
Sorry for the typos, I'm on my phone.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 20, 2013, 10:59:53 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Corsair831 on November 20, 2013, 11:19:14 pm
Really weak buff, they should buff athletics so it gives you 2x more speed per rank and shield skill so you can have a 360 degree ranged forcefield

(hue hue)

seriously though, i love it, finally feels like the game is almost balanced, i'm dieing far less frequently to spamming high armoured guys who can't block, very nice :)
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Nehvar on November 20, 2013, 11:24:07 pm
As a long time agi build I'm liking the free respec the most.  The bonus WPF pool is also pretty nice.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Angantyr on November 20, 2013, 11:29:05 pm
Think many in the EU are sticking with balance builds.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: _GTX_ on November 20, 2013, 11:32:39 pm
Think many in the EU are sticking with balance builds.
Thats the impression i got aswell. Str is still viable, just not the most ridicolous builds, like 30-3(example).
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Malaclypse on November 20, 2013, 11:47:21 pm
18/24 player. I'm digging the bonus WPF (I was a three way hybrid before, now I'm an even more beefy three way melee hybrid). Maybe it's just in my head, but I feel slower in general/like everyone else is faster.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Sir_Firebus on November 21, 2013, 12:00:41 am
21/21 all day ery day
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Kalam on November 21, 2013, 12:02:47 am
It didn't change too much in cRPG. Means I can take less power strike.

What's big is the melee hybridization. I'm kicking myself for not going 180 in one weapon and 120 in the other, or 130/130/130 ish.

Going agi was a trap as far as strat goes. Unless you have a shield or are ranged, I guess.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Leshma on November 21, 2013, 12:05:17 am
Was 18/24 for longest period, now I'm balanced 21/21. Going for 21/24 on lvl 35. It's great build for public play, in strat STR builds still dominate but being tripple melee hybrid adds completely new dimension, both on public servers and strategus. I'm not the most useful in strat or the best killer but now I'm able to fill any given role and that is awesome.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Mongolista on November 21, 2013, 12:46:56 am
Is it just me or is it yet another buff for the agi whores? My main was the ultimate Str whore (36/3) and it definitely wasnt as OP as some of you cry here, one of the reasons for sticking to this build was the increased number of shielders since the last two (or three) patches and the only countermeasure to deal with them quickly was the maul build, this build is pretty much useless against any other class unless you know how to block, so I cant possibly understand anyone crying about 2h str whore nabs who cant block - either youre a shielder or a balanced 2h, if youre a shielder you should not even dare to cry about anybody lacking the skill of blocking well, if youre 2h balanced build and the str whore cant block (and you can) then you pretty much lead the fight as in most of the cases my only chance was to chamber/hit the faster builds. I am not crying about the new patch, just dont see the point for such a change, it only eliminates str builds for the cost of making agi whores universal in strat, basically we are left with shielders, balanced/agi whores 2hs and ranged now and we have no anticlass for shielders?? correct me if Im wrong please
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: _GTX_ on November 21, 2013, 12:59:41 am
(click to show/hide)
Your wrong. Strenght still dominates strat, when it comes to melee classes. You dont need to be a 36-3 build to carry a maul, a balanced build can hit the requirements aswell.

Builds like 36-3 is not great anymore, true. But that was kinda the idea behind the patch aswell. Look at it from another perspective, would an agi build with crazy amounts like 3-36 work? Not rly.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Teeth on November 21, 2013, 01:04:53 am
Wait, so your point is that because 8 WM now gets 15 more wpf more people are going to get 8 athlethics? Which will make you less fast comparatively which means that the game lost a class and you will no longer be able to have fun, which might cause you to lobby for a rework of the wpf nerf?

Lel, talk about overreacting.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Kafein on November 21, 2013, 01:09:13 am
There are like, a few more agi whores around. And even that is quite temporary methinks. What really changed is on the STR heavy side, and ranged.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: PhayaNak on November 21, 2013, 01:10:48 am
> but with it we lost a class that was very fun to fight

Sez you. Annoying as shit != fun to fight.

Not serious though, I don't really give a shit since I suck against all builds (except not farmerbob peasants).
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Mongolista on November 21, 2013, 01:12:03 am
Your wrong. Strenght still dominates strat, when it comes to melee classes. You dont need to be a 36-3 build to carry a maul, a balanced build can hit the requirements aswell.

Builds like 36-3 is not great anymore, true. But that was kinda the idea behind the patch aswell. Look at it from another perspective, would an agi build with crazy amounts like 3-36 work? Not rly.

I see, that makes sense....I just...dont understand...why they....ruin my build...yet let all the rondel dagger buckler assholes troll around....stop....the....heresy!!!  :cry:

Teeth: As Kafein said I think the problem is not on the side of agi whores getting more pts but on the side that str builds lose their wpf, which is much more crucial

Kafein: I really like your anti-archer pic  :lol:
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Kafein on November 21, 2013, 01:21:06 am
I'd like to add that even though the effects of the patch on agi leaning builds are minor, giving them more wpf was completely unnecessary.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Kafein on November 21, 2013, 01:33:27 am
Block down, rondel my old friend neutralized
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Carthan on November 21, 2013, 01:53:08 am
It seems like a good patch to me.
I wear light armor so I still outrun everyone and though they are slightly faster, they are ALOT weaker.
The only thing that has changed about my build is that I changed a single skill point and am almost managing to pull off a hybrid of my two favorite classes.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: SugarHoe on November 21, 2013, 02:18:16 am
Block down, rondel my old friend neutralized
it sucks when they hit "x" and they fuck you over while youre too surprised that they're side attacking.
my life when I started :(
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on November 21, 2013, 03:32:18 am
I don't feel strong either way about the agi buff, I am however pissed at how the patch effectively nerfs low levels though, that's complete fucking bullshit and something pretty much no one wanted.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Kafein on November 21, 2013, 08:53:17 am
Didn't say they weren't killable lol, just that they 'work' and are common, in response to someone saying 'you wouldnt see 3-36 around' or something. And they sure do succeed at getting kills
(click to show/hide)

It's their loss really. With a higher average agi, more people can easily dispatch rondel guys.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: _GTX_ on November 21, 2013, 09:15:44 am
Invinci-shield rondel my old friends, they 'work' (that's down to your definition of 'working' though).
Rondel my old friends.... well they are just.... i dont even know. They are pretty damn different from the rest of the game though.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: kinngrimm on November 21, 2013, 09:25:24 am
A month ago after i had been gone for 8 months, i saw an increase in agi builds on eu servers, a trend i knew was happening 9 months ago already. With the latest patch nothing changed concerning that.

To keep the fully use the latest patch, a respec was needed also for me, but well i dont think i have choosen too well, already safing up for another respec to go back to my build before. No my shield shall not brake ... must have 11 shieldskill again, no matter if my weapon gets slow as fuck then.

I still want to see more relation between weapon length and athletics. Realistic? dunno, but needed from my perspective at least to balance the 2h/pole spam.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Lethwin Far Seeker on November 21, 2013, 10:39:33 am
So I'll start with stating that I did not yet get a chance to play or even set my new stats because of internet problems. But since the new patch came out, I'm afraid that once I do I will be immensely disappointed.
I have always played my 15/24 build (that recently became pole/shielder hybrid) and with the right weapon choice (and I also want to claim some skill on my side), I have always been quite effective.
I was 'that' agiwhore and I loved it. My build was perfect for having fun and trolling around by spamming people or totally surprising them by using the most annoying tricks and abusive tactics. I was faster than most people and had a specific role in the community directly related to that speed.

Now, from what I have heard and what I fear is that I won't be alone anymore. I will no longer have fun because of my fast build because everyone else about as fast. The community maybe lost another OP class, but with it we lost a class that was very fun to fight and now the choice of valid builds just got smaller.

If I finally manage to play and find that my fears have become reality I will strongly consider asking for an actual redo of the str nerf. For now I'll have to take enough wih the opiniob of others

Been playing on my STR character since the patch.  Trust me, there will be a flow of agi builds at first but STR builds have in no way been eliminated.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: DaveUKR on November 21, 2013, 10:56:39 am
I still want to see more relation between weapon length and athletics. Realistic? dunno, but needed from my perspective at least to balance the 2h/pole spam.

Longer the weapon - bigger the speed penalty and less weapon speed in general. Though it doesn't fix it in any significant way.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Falka on November 21, 2013, 11:21:56 am
No my shield shall not brake ... must have 11 shieldskill again

Really? You should be able to tank almost infinite amount of sword's hits with 10 shield skill and mw huscarl... And even weapons with bounus against shields should have a hard time breaking your shield, 13 shield skill makes peasant's shields unbreakable, with 10 mw huscarl is very close to being unbreakable I guess.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: kinngrimm on November 21, 2013, 01:19:17 pm
(click to show/hide)
swordhits perhaps, but ranged hybrids with morningstar ^^ not su much or the great axe/bardich backpedal spammers ... You guys just became too good at manual blocking ... sooner or later my shield will brake then anyways, now sooner. Also since i came back aabout a motnh ago, i witnessed that there are much more high level players so i am now preffering the elit cav shield over the huscarl so i wont get constantly spammed to death and get my shield up in time ... overall i am doing alright i guess, but well there are pretty much the same things still going on i was complaining about 9 months back and that is a bit disturbing to witnes with so much time inbetween. If this patch(what still needs to be seen) really would reduce overall ranged count of players i would give a feast and get drunk.

anyhow, as mentioend befor, the changes are not that big, and anyone crying already 'because of teh patch' cant be thinking straight. You always need to give it soem time that things settle and see the real consequences of gamemechanic changes. A few WPf more pfff, a few less pffffffff.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Prpavi on November 21, 2013, 01:27:05 pm
least to balance the 2h/pole spam.

kinn please...spam? you backpedal faster than most people run, have almost unbreakable shield, deal crazy damage for 4ps with speed bonus and you talking bout spam...
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: //saxon on November 21, 2013, 01:33:04 pm
they love it until i come and vex em all.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Gurnisson on November 21, 2013, 03:45:37 pm
Block down, rondel my old friend neutralized

Except they have a 110 speed side-swings with pierce damage as well. :lol:
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: San on November 21, 2013, 11:54:56 pm
I think I'm still relatively new to agi builds, only had one since May. I notice the slowing of strength builds' swings and it's easier for me to hit them with a hammer. Balanced builds are probably the most prevalent and most tricky that I have to deal with. It's more fun overall for me.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: kinngrimm on November 22, 2013, 02:30:43 am
kinn please...spam? you backpedal faster than most people run, have almost unbreakable shield, deal crazy damage for 4ps with speed bonus and you talking bout spam...
believe it or not, i can see things out of a prespective of "normal" lvl 30 shielder. And even if only complettly subjectively, then i know exactly how the increases of classes or speed of several weapons feels, how it effects me. So biased sure, wrong not one bit, so spare me the speech about objectivity i am sick of this narrow minded statement anyhow, every last fuck here is subjectiv in his views, even if you try to be objective, that is after all an ideal not a stance. As also, it is not like i am not aware of my build, nor you of mine, why bring it up at all?
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Prpavi on November 22, 2013, 09:24:38 am
believe it or not, i can see things out of a prespective of "normal" lvl 30 shielder. And even if only complettly subjectively, then i know exactly how the increases of classes or speed of several weapons feels, how it effects me. So biased sure, wrong not one bit, so spare me the speech about objectivity i am sick of this narrow minded statement anyhow, every last fuck here is subjectiv in his views, even if you try to be objective, that is after all an ideal not a stance. As also, it is not like i am not aware of my build, nor you of mine, why bring it up at all?


Sorry but having 200wpf in 1h and talking about excessive 2h spam is kinda silly.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: kinngrimm on November 22, 2013, 09:34:58 am

Sorry but having 200wpf in 1h and talking about excessive 2h spam is kinda silly.
A 'but' neglects pretty much everything in front of it. I guess you are right, but not sorry ^^.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: ArysOakheart on November 22, 2013, 09:53:25 am
Did they do something to the trident stab while using a shield? It feels like it glances even more than before.

Edit: Did they change the penalty for using a 2h weapon (or pole) as a 1h with shield?
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Prpavi on November 22, 2013, 11:34:56 am
A 'but' neglects pretty much everything in front of it. I guess you are right, but not sorry ^^.

no u!

Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: kinngrimm on November 22, 2013, 11:41:24 am
no u!
love you no matter what anyhow. Peace?
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Prpavi on November 22, 2013, 11:54:42 am
love you no matter what anyhow. Peace?

u mad kinn there never was any beef, I just said you a self proclaimed agiwhore was talking about overspam and find it silly.

all good, no bad feels!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: XyNox on November 22, 2013, 12:02:04 pm
I cant really believe it but this patch was actually pretty nice for me. I took the opportunity to go agi archer/1h and for the first time since the quiver weight nerf I am able to use footwork without having to drop my bow every 3 seconds when something looks/aims at me and also have enough wpf to hybritize properly. Now I may need even more arrows to kill anything due to less PD but at least people cant backpeddal faster than I walk forward anymore  :lol:

Hell, I even ditched my bow on EU2 yesterday for like 4 maps to fully enjoy my new gained mobility and have to say, most fun I had in months with this game. But well, archery being enjoyable, that can only mean that the next nerf is nearby  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Macropus on November 22, 2013, 02:11:06 pm
Not sure if I can count as a veteran agiwhore having lvl34 15-30 ninja in the past, but in my opinion the new patch is good. Str still will be OP on strat as long as there's no equipment upkeep on strat as we have it in c-rpg.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: _GTX_ on November 22, 2013, 03:43:33 pm
I cant really believe it but this patch was actually pretty nice for me. I took the opportunity to go agi archer/1h and for the first time since the quiver weight nerf I am able to use footwork without having to drop my bow every 3 seconds when something looks/aims at me and also have enough wpf to hybritize properly. Now I may need even more arrows to kill anything due to less PD but at least people cant backpeddal faster than I walk forward anymore  :lol:

Hell, I even ditched my bow on EU2 yesterday for like 4 maps to fully enjoy my new gained mobility and have to say, most fun I had in months with this game. But well, archery being enjoyable, that can only mean that the next nerf is nearby  :mrgreen:

Sadly i cant say the same for 2handed weapons, it seemed to become a little less fun. But the patch still did some nice things to the melee str/agi balance.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Canary on November 22, 2013, 06:54:18 pm
I haven't had this much wpf since I was above level 40 (RIP olde ex-pea systemme).

As a high level, I decided to roll with the changes instead of going for another stupid-high attribute build (I used to be 21/27 with low WM, I am now 18/27 with maxed WM). For now, I'm enjoying the choice to get more than 190 wpf in my chosen class over a possible 10 athletics (and approximately the same wpf I had before the patch) with the free respec. Being polearm, I don't miss being able to pick up great mauls - yet. The penalty armor weight gives my swings is less noticeable with such high wpf, so a lot of the time I feel like the tradeoff for strength is not very significant (heavy armor more than making up for a couple hit points lost, wpf nearly recouping my damage to what it was). On that note, I've been doing very well in strat battles.


I have an alt that was previously doing a 36/3 gen. With the respec I put it at 30/9, and it's still doin' fine. I've had a different 30/9 character before, and the loss of 11 wpf and 3 IF (or 30~ wpf, which I didn't try before) compared to that one isn't very drastic a change. It's a solid nerf, but the build is still great.


I have yet to have any problems with an overall faster playerbase. It might be my imagination, but I feel as though I'm getting hit by projectiles more often.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 22, 2013, 07:28:16 pm
(click to show/hide)

25 point warning for "spam"...this is bullshit.

moderators, more like maderators. 
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: dreadnok on November 23, 2013, 12:56:49 am
Is it just me or is it yet another buff for the agi whores? My main was the ultimate Str whore (36/3) and it definitely wasnt as OP as some of you cry here, one of the reasons for sticking to this build was the increased number of shielders since the last two (or three) patches and the only countermeasure to deal with them quickly was the maul build, this build is pretty much useless against any other class unless you know how to block, so I cant possibly understand anyone crying about 2h str whore nabs who cant block - either youre a shielder or a balanced 2h, if youre a shielder you should not even dare to cry about anybody lacking the skill of blocking well, if youre 2h balanced build and the str whore cant block (and you can) then you pretty much lead the fight as in most of the cases my only chance was to chamber/hit the faster builds. I am not crying about the new patch, just dont see the point for such a change, it only eliminates str builds for the cost of making agi whores universal in strat, basically we are left with shielders, balanced/agi whores 2hs and ranged now and we have no anticlass for shielders?? correct me if Im wrong please


its trash, agi spear dudes can 2 shot people like everyone else.  majority of the community are agi pigfucks hence the buff. i guess spamming blocks in a triangle makes you a great player tho when your fast
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Peasant_Woman on November 23, 2013, 04:56:15 am
- Throwing weps and arrows definitely seem faster in the air, slightly harder to dodge overall. No big deal. Until everyone retires/respecs again. Woohoo.

- 1h shortsword stab, picks left swing, katana and LHB are a little too fast on a pure build. WSE2 stuttering only compounds this issue to the point where sometimes i'm not even sure how much of a swing is speed from wpf or skipped frames anymore. Feels like opportunities for doubleswings following blocks come much more often for pure agi / balanced agi builds right now.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Jona on November 23, 2013, 10:04:17 am
My only problem is the increased accuracy of ranged (specifically archers/crossbows. I've yet to meet many throwers). Getting 2shot by an archer has never been fun. Now it really sucks when they simply don't miss a single shot.

Me before the patch when I see an archer:

(click to show/hide)

Me running for the hills after the patch when I see an archer:

(click to show/hide)


I also feel like this was a HUGE buff to crossbows. Since crossbows require no skill points be invested in anything other than WM, it was a massive help for them. And we all know crossbows weren't at all OP beforehand...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Silveredge on November 23, 2013, 10:42:14 am
My only problem is the increased accuracy of ranged (specifically archers/crossbows. I've yet to meet many throwers). Getting 2shot by an archer has never been fun. Now it really sucks when they simply don't miss a single shot.

I also feel like this was a HUGE buff to crossbows. Since crossbows require no skill points be invested in anything other than WM, it was a massive help for them. And we all know crossbows weren't at all OP beforehand...  :rolleyes:

I'm not seeing this, the wpf points are pretty much the same...  I think the change is only felt by full STR builds and classes that dont split their wpf between ranged and melee.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Templar_Steevee on November 23, 2013, 12:04:49 pm
Buff to accuracy for ranged from wpf is not so big. For long and rus bow users  (like me, but i'm also hi lvl) buff to accuracy mostly comes from +1 in accuracy stats for bows.

There are also many players having hi str, you can see it mostly on strat battles (they are surviving headshots).
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Tindel on November 23, 2013, 12:11:30 pm
The "spam" from "agiwhores" has always come from high athletics and footwork, and turning into swings properly.
It can be achieved with any weapon and any build if the players knows what he is doing, just watch some of our best polearm users, or greatsword duellists.

This patch has merely switched the general population from going highstr in general, to going balanced or high agi more often.

Gives us faster more exciting combat in general, and you dont have to hit a guy 5 times to drop him.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Rebelyell on November 23, 2013, 12:39:25 pm
believe it or not, i can see things out of a prespective of "normal" lvl 30 shielder. And even if only complettly subjectively, then i know exactly how the increases of classes or speed of several weapons feels, how it effects me. So biased sure, wrong not one bit, so spare me the speech about objectivity i am sick of this narrow minded statement anyhow, every last fuck here is subjectiv in his views, even if you try to be objective, that is after all an ideal not a stance. As also, it is not like i am not aware of my build, nor you of mine, why bring it up at all?
newspeak

you are last person that should complain about spam
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Kafein on November 23, 2013, 12:45:04 pm
newspeak

you are last person that should complain about spam

Typical ad hominem.

When someone that doesn't spam complaints about spam, the standard response is L2P, regardless of the actual skill of the guy. I think this is often correct though, as almost nobody up in the scoreboards doesn't spam on a regular basis.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Leshma on November 23, 2013, 12:46:08 pm
Shielders are bit more annoying but only in strategus, because it's unresponsive for me and feels like playing with 100 ping. It's much harder to block steel picks in strat than on official servers. I guess that's the reason why Druzhina are so successful in Strategus, most players are on their level (they are from Russia or former Soviet block which means higher ping than players from western Europe) because game mode lags for most people. If Strat was more like Battle, both perfomance and ping wise, I doubt we would be seeing so much spam.

How I see it, all these nerfs are because of strategus being less responsive than it should be. That's why all you can see in strat are bunch of (awl)pikes, shielders with fast, tiny and damaging weapons and of course STR great maul, morningstar, barmace spammers. If people could block like they are used to, there would be no need to nerf any of those weapons or builds. If...
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Canary on November 24, 2013, 09:27:36 pm
How I see it, all these nerfs are because of strategus being less responsive than it should be. That's why all you can see in strat are bunch of (awl)pikes, shielders with fast, tiny and damaging weapons and of course STR great maul, morningstar, barmace spammers. If people could block like they are used to, there would be no need to nerf any of those weapons or builds. If...

What? I'm not familiar with how poorly the EU strat server may be performing lately, but the reason why you constantly see awlpikes, picks, mauls and morningstars is because the level of armor is so high in strat. The reason some builds (36/3, 33/6, 30/9 and higher level builds with no more agility than these, or anyone who didn't take WM) were nerfed was because there was not a significant tradeoff in performance for neglecting to put any more points into agility (compared to how a 3/36 build can equip only a scant few weapons and armors and will die in one hit from practically everything ever for the benefits it gets; the strength builds only lost movement speed).

The "spam" from "agiwhores" has always come from high athletics and footwork, and turning into swings properly.
It can be achieved with any weapon and any build if the players knows what he is doing, just watch some of our best polearm users, or greatsword duellists.

A+

It's not always spam when you attack twice (just because the other guy didn't block...). There are very few players who actually spam attacks without any thought involved, and an agility build would only hinder them from being successful with a playstyle like that in comparison to being able to take numerous more hits and deal more damage when a random attack hits when using a strength build. The attack speed increase wpf grants you is still less significant than the portrayal given it in complaints against agility builds.

This patch has merely switched the general population from going highstr in general, to going balanced or high agi more often.

Balanced builds were always the most common, and the number of agi builds is now higher than strength builds. Before, strength was higher than agi (and by a wider margin) and was just behind the amount of balanced builds.

Only a handful of builds were actually nerfed, and going high strength is still viable. If you go full strength, you will now actually be trading off some of the effectiveness you would have had pre-patch for the toughness and damage increase you will get.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Patoson on November 24, 2013, 09:33:44 pm
Shielders are bit more annoying but only in strategus, because it's unresponsive for me and feels like playing with 100 ping. It's much harder to block steel picks in strat than on official servers. I guess that's the reason why Druzhina are so successful in Strategus, most players are on their level (they are from Russia or former Soviet block which means higher ping than players from western Europe) because game mode lags for most people. If Strat was more like Battle, both perfomance and ping wise, I doubt we would be seeing so much spam.

How I see it, all these nerfs are because of strategus being less responsive than it should be. That's why all you can see in strat are bunch of (awl)pikes, shielders with fast, tiny and damaging weapons and of course STR great maul, morningstar, barmace spammers. If people could block like they are used to, there would be no need to nerf any of those weapons or builds. If...
For me, it's not only in Strategus. Since a couple of months ago, my ping went down quite a lot - it used to be 80-100 and now it's around 70 - but it still feels laggy when it comes to blocking. I have a hard time blocking agiwhores with fast weapons like 1h.

And I agree with you, Leshma, that there should be a wpf cap. 200 wpf is just insane because of what I have just mentioned before. I think the speeds were fine before, and the balance between STR and AGI was fine, although there had to be done something about builds without WM. I think that 175 max wpf (at least in melee proficiencies) would be already enough if we care about people with high pings.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Elindor on November 24, 2013, 10:04:03 pm
Only issue with high agi/wpf (especially when coupled with good ping and a good player) is the "stunlock" effect....basically they hit you once (whether you missed the block or didnt see it coming) and because of the high rate of repeat attacks you are unable to get a block up between hits.  This seems to be most prevalent with agi polearm, but is not limited to it.

It's not unstoppable, but definitely can be annoying :(
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Jona on November 24, 2013, 10:34:00 pm
I'm not seeing this, the wpf points are pretty much the same...  I think the change is only felt by full STR builds and classes that dont split their wpf between ranged and melee.

You can't not see it... it is a fact that high agi bulds (the majority of pure crossbow builds from my experience) got more wpf after the patch assuming they have WM, which you would be pretty crazy to not have if you are pure crossbow. I used to have 172 wpf, now I have 185, with 24 agility and 8 WM. I heard rumors that xbow proficiency had an accuracy cap at ~165... not sure if this is true, but if so, that means you get a ton more wpf to invest in your sidearm, usually a 1hander. So instead of being a sniper who is okay at melee, you are a sniper that is good at melee. So, in other words, you got buffed. And if that cap of max xbow accuracy doesn't exist, then you can just make it so that you reload even faster and shoot even MORE accurately.
Title: Re: what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?
Post by: Malaclypse on November 25, 2013, 10:08:00 pm
I heard rumors that xbow proficiency had an accuracy cap at ~165... not sure if this is true, but if so, that means you get a ton more wpf to invest in your sidearm, usually a 1hander.

Right, I've heard about the same from Desire, but she also said that more WPF meant a faster reload speed, which some folks may favor over melee. Anyways bai xoxo