what do the veteran agiwhores think about the new patch?

[dreadnok]

Is it just me or is it yet another buff for the agi whores? My main was the ultimate Str whore (36/3) and it definitely wasnt as OP as some of you cry here, one of the reasons for sticking to this build was the increased number of shielders since the last two (or three) patches and the only countermeasure to deal with them quickly was the maul build, this build is pretty much useless against any other class unless you know how to block, so I cant possibly understand anyone crying about 2h str whore nabs who cant block - either youre a shielder or a balanced 2h, if youre a shielder you should not even dare to cry about anybody lacking the skill of blocking well, if youre 2h balanced build and the str whore cant block (and you can) then you pretty much lead the fight as in most of the cases my only chance was to chamber/hit the faster builds. I am not crying about the new patch, just dont see the point for such a change, it only eliminates str builds for the cost of making agi whores universal in strat, basically we are left with shielders, balanced/agi whores 2hs and ranged now and we have no anticlass for shielders?? correct me if Im wrong please

its trash, agi spear dudes can 2 shot people like everyone else.  majority of the community are agi pigfucks hence the buff. i guess spamming blocks in a triangle makes you a great player tho when your fast

[Peasant_Woman]

- Throwing weps and arrows definitely seem faster in the air, slightly harder to dodge overall. No big deal. Until everyone retires/respecs again. Woohoo.

- 1h shortsword stab, picks left swing, katana and LHB are a little too fast on a pure build. WSE2 stuttering only compounds this issue to the point where sometimes i'm not even sure how much of a swing is speed from wpf or skipped frames anymore. Feels like opportunities for doubleswings following blocks come much more often for pure agi / balanced agi builds right now.

[Jona]

My only problem is the increased accuracy of ranged (specifically archers/crossbows. I've yet to meet many throwers). Getting 2shot by an archer has never been fun. Now it really sucks when they simply don't miss a single shot.

Me before the patch when I see an archer:

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Me running for the hills after the patch when I see an archer:

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I also feel like this was a HUGE buff to crossbows. Since crossbows require no skill points be invested in anything other than WM, it was a massive help for them. And we all know crossbows weren't at all OP beforehand... 

[Silveredge]

My only problem is the increased accuracy of ranged (specifically archers/crossbows. I've yet to meet many throwers). Getting 2shot by an archer has never been fun. Now it really sucks when they simply don't miss a single shot.

I also feel like this was a HUGE buff to crossbows. Since crossbows require no skill points be invested in anything other than WM, it was a massive help for them. And we all know crossbows weren't at all OP beforehand... 

I'm not seeing this, the wpf points are pretty much the same...  I think the change is only felt by full STR builds and classes that dont split their wpf between ranged and melee.

[Templar_Steevee]

Buff to accuracy for ranged from wpf is not so big. For long and rus bow users  (like me, but i'm also hi lvl) buff to accuracy mostly comes from +1 in accuracy stats for bows.

There are also many players having hi str, you can see it mostly on strat battles (they are surviving headshots).

[Tindel]

The "spam" from "agiwhores" has always come from high athletics and footwork, and turning into swings properly.
It can be achieved with any weapon and any build if the players knows what he is doing, just watch some of our best polearm users, or greatsword duellists.

This patch has merely switched the general population from going highstr in general, to going balanced or high agi more often.

Gives us faster more exciting combat in general, and you dont have to hit a guy 5 times to drop him.

[Rebelyell]

believe it or not, i can see things out of a prespective of "normal" lvl 30 shielder. And even if only complettly subjectively, then i know exactly how the increases of classes or speed of several weapons feels, how it effects me. So biased sure, wrong not one bit, so spare me the speech about objectivity i am sick of this narrow minded statement anyhow, every last fuck here is subjectiv in his views, even if you try to be objective, that is after all an ideal not a stance. As also, it is not like i am not aware of my build, nor you of mine, why bring it up at all?

newspeak

you are last person that should complain about spam

[Kafein]

newspeak

you are last person that should complain about spam

Typical ad hominem.

When someone that doesn't spam complaints about spam, the standard response is L2P, regardless of the actual skill of the guy. I think this is often correct though, as almost nobody up in the scoreboards doesn't spam on a regular basis.

[Leshma]

Shielders are bit more annoying but only in strategus, because it's unresponsive for me and feels like playing with 100 ping. It's much harder to block steel picks in strat than on official servers. I guess that's the reason why Druzhina are so successful in Strategus, most players are on their level (they are from Russia or former Soviet block which means higher ping than players from western Europe) because game mode lags for most people. If Strat was more like Battle, both perfomance and ping wise, I doubt we would be seeing so much spam.

How I see it, all these nerfs are because of strategus being less responsive than it should be. That's why all you can see in strat are bunch of (awl)pikes, shielders with fast, tiny and damaging weapons and of course STR great maul, morningstar, barmace spammers. If people could block like they are used to, there would be no need to nerf any of those weapons or builds. If...

[Canary]

How I see it, all these nerfs are because of strategus being less responsive than it should be. That's why all you can see in strat are bunch of (awl)pikes, shielders with fast, tiny and damaging weapons and of course STR great maul, morningstar, barmace spammers. If people could block like they are used to, there would be no need to nerf any of those weapons or builds. If...

What? I'm not familiar with how poorly the EU strat server may be performing lately, but the reason why you constantly see awlpikes, picks, mauls and morningstars is because the level of armor is so high in strat. The reason some builds (36/3, 33/6, 30/9 and higher level builds with no more agility than these, or anyone who didn't take WM) were nerfed was because there was not a significant tradeoff in performance for neglecting to put any more points into agility (compared to how a 3/36 build can equip only a scant few weapons and armors and will die in one hit from practically everything ever for the benefits it gets; the strength builds only lost movement speed).

The "spam" from "agiwhores" has always come from high athletics and footwork, and turning into swings properly.
It can be achieved with any weapon and any build if the players knows what he is doing, just watch some of our best polearm users, or greatsword duellists.

A+

It's not always spam when you attack twice (just because the other guy didn't block...). There are very few players who actually spam attacks without any thought involved, and an agility build would only hinder them from being successful with a playstyle like that in comparison to being able to take numerous more hits and deal more damage when a random attack hits when using a strength build. The attack speed increase wpf grants you is still less significant than the portrayal given it in complaints against agility builds.

This patch has merely switched the general population from going highstr in general, to going balanced or high agi more often.

Balanced builds were always the most common, and the number of agi builds is now higher than strength builds. Before, strength was higher than agi (and by a wider margin) and was just behind the amount of balanced builds.

Only a handful of builds were actually nerfed, and going high strength is still viable. If you go full strength, you will now actually be trading off some of the effectiveness you would have had pre-patch for the toughness and damage increase you will get.

[Patoson]

Shielders are bit more annoying but only in strategus, because it's unresponsive for me and feels like playing with 100 ping. It's much harder to block steel picks in strat than on official servers. I guess that's the reason why Druzhina are so successful in Strategus, most players are on their level (they are from Russia or former Soviet block which means higher ping than players from western Europe) because game mode lags for most people. If Strat was more like Battle, both perfomance and ping wise, I doubt we would be seeing so much spam.

How I see it, all these nerfs are because of strategus being less responsive than it should be. That's why all you can see in strat are bunch of (awl)pikes, shielders with fast, tiny and damaging weapons and of course STR great maul, morningstar, barmace spammers. If people could block like they are used to, there would be no need to nerf any of those weapons or builds. If...

For me, it's not only in Strategus. Since a couple of months ago, my ping went down quite a lot - it used to be 80-100 and now it's around 70 - but it still feels laggy when it comes to blocking. I have a hard time blocking agiwhores with fast weapons like 1h.

And I agree with you, Leshma, that there should be a wpf cap. 200 wpf is just insane because of what I have just mentioned before. I think the speeds were fine before, and the balance between STR and AGI was fine, although there had to be done something about builds without WM. I think that 175 max wpf (at least in melee proficiencies) would be already enough if we care about people with high pings.

[Elindor]

Only issue with high agi/wpf (especially when coupled with good ping and a good player) is the "stunlock" effect....basically they hit you once (whether you missed the block or didnt see it coming) and because of the high rate of repeat attacks you are unable to get a block up between hits.  This seems to be most prevalent with agi polearm, but is not limited to it.

It's not unstoppable, but definitely can be annoying

[Jona]

I'm not seeing this, the wpf points are pretty much the same...  I think the change is only felt by full STR builds and classes that dont split their wpf between ranged and melee.

You can't not see it... it is a fact that high agi bulds (the majority of pure crossbow builds from my experience) got more wpf after the patch assuming they have WM, which you would be pretty crazy to not have if you are pure crossbow. I used to have 172 wpf, now I have 185, with 24 agility and 8 WM. I heard rumors that xbow proficiency had an accuracy cap at ~165... not sure if this is true, but if so, that means you get a ton more wpf to invest in your sidearm, usually a 1hander. So instead of being a sniper who is okay at melee, you are a sniper that is good at melee. So, in other words, you got buffed. And if that cap of max xbow accuracy doesn't exist, then you can just make it so that you reload even faster and shoot even MORE accurately.

[Malaclypse]

I heard rumors that xbow proficiency had an accuracy cap at ~165... not sure if this is true, but if so, that means you get a ton more wpf to invest in your sidearm, usually a 1hander.

Right, I've heard about the same from Desire, but she also said that more WPF meant a faster reload speed, which some folks may favor over melee. Anyways bai xoxo