cRPG

Strategus => Diplomacy => Topic started by: kinngrimm on October 28, 2013, 08:27:59 pm

Title: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 28, 2013, 08:27:59 pm
New Clan old enemies it seems. (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=strategusinfobattledetail&id=5641)

And getting attacked by the oathbreakers to the CFA, to the Wolves and their former mentor who gave them their first fiefs and helped them establish themselves. Well nothing unexpected from these backstabbers.

Anyhow to conclude the formalities.

Wolves of Fenris do accept the challange and

declare war on the scum of the earth the Brootherhood.


May your blood flow down the river Ván and your names forgotten.
I am cursing you, may your balls shrink, may you loose your hair and teeth early, may noone trust your word ever again.




edit: title, thx CrazyCracka420
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on October 28, 2013, 08:35:29 pm
I know what you meant to say, but this implies the person getting attacked is cowardly (based on the title of thread's wording)
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on October 28, 2013, 09:39:31 pm
This clan will only merc in strat battles but we wont fight for land and engage in politics. Any fief which would be given to us would be still owned by the clan/faction who gave it to us therefor also used by that originating faction. We are not aiming to attack anyone within Strategus, till at a time we would have a substantial amount of members(at least 20), and those would vote with at least 70% to participate in Strategus ... Calradia is safe from any plots out of the cruel and nasty fangs of kinngrimm  :twisted: for now. Serously though one thing i didnt miss in my absence is to take care of fucking Strategus all the time. It is a great game in some areas and it is a fucking clusterfuck in other areas. So sry but for me no deal anymore ... fuck strategus  :wink:

Well played.
I wanted to avoid this bitching but here we go.

You came back 8 month after you left everything behind. Probably a very good descision for yourself. Now it seems you have solved your real life problems and came back to cRPG. You wrote about ignorance to all the people who "betrayed" you and you did not want to participate in strategus at all.
Yet you contacted NoGo:
(click to show/hide)
This speaks for itself I think.


We are taken with this Declaration of War by the oldest Wolve of them all. We are looking forward to big battles with alot of xp and fun, where we can finally use our troops.

This attack is the beginning of a personal campaign by the Brotherhood against kinngrimm. We are not fielding against your current faction, the Wolves, neither we are against the Wolves of Fenris. You, Members of Wolves and Fenris, can freely travel in our lands as long as you dont work directly or official against us.

Best wishes for the campaign and good luck in the battles to you, Kinn.

Greets,
Chris
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: Panos_ on October 28, 2013, 09:40:46 pm
My axe is yours Kinngrimm.
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: Varadin on October 28, 2013, 09:42:48 pm
My axe is yours Kinngrimm.

and my 2h is yours :D
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: Bittersteel on October 28, 2013, 09:43:04 pm
And you have my bow.


Wrong way tough...
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: ARN_ on October 28, 2013, 09:54:16 pm
And my spear!
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: Strudog on October 28, 2013, 09:55:36 pm
The Bro's have my polearm, Kingrimm is as evil as ever, returning from a long break does'nt clean your slate
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: Bittersteel on October 28, 2013, 10:02:31 pm
Wow you two just fucked us over.


(click to show/hide)


Or were i the only one thinking about it? Anyways, have fun and may there be alot of xp.
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: Torben on October 28, 2013, 10:15:20 pm
there I was,  thinking no more diplodrama this round.

draw the curtains,  may the play begin!
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: Heibai on October 28, 2013, 10:54:57 pm
That pomposity only because of this..  :rolleyes:

Well, I, and I think many many other guys, like that sort of diplomatic in cRPG  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: Flans on October 29, 2013, 12:49:06 am
I feel inclined to say smth here... but eh idc, I've got bigger fish to fry atm.

Ofc, since kinngrimm still holds the Wolves tags on strat an attack on him is an attack on the Wolves clan, so Chris behave yourself :)
Title: Re: Cowardly attacked by Brootherhood
Post by: fosr on October 29, 2013, 03:03:43 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Conquisitore on October 29, 2013, 04:12:49 am
Good luck to both sides, lets have some fun
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 29, 2013, 04:29:56 am
Someone tries collecting evidence to make me look bad ^^, i can't see that working. In comparison to the actions of the agressor past or present. As you seem to have nothing better to do, attacking 200 naked must be the highlight in your gridlock in the past 8 months.

@Strudog
What did i do to you? Did i steal your cookies or kill your puppy? I remember back then, you also were spreading propaganda about the 'evil' kinngrimm. Man since you left templar and joined mercs you kind of got a dark site to yourself, try not to look down into the abyss too much while chasing after me, the abyss has this habit to stare back at you.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on October 29, 2013, 12:40:54 pm
As you seem to have nothing better to do, attacking 200 naked must be the highlight in your gridlock in the past 8 months.
Right. We are helping out Coalition with some troops and as everybody is troop stacking due to inactivity we are doing the same.
Never seen a QQ thread about a battle of 200 naked troops, so probably you got nothing better to do then this.
I am not sure what made you get active in Forum bitching. You did not do it before you took a break from cRPG...
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Abay on October 29, 2013, 01:11:59 pm
Someone tries collecting evidence to make me look bad ^^, i can't see it working. In comparison to the actions of the agressor past or present. As you seem to have nothing better to do, attacking 200 naked must be the highlight in your gridlock in the past 8 months.

@Strudog
What did i do to you? Did i steal your cookies or kill your puppy? I remember back then, you also were spreading propaganda about the 'evil' kinngrimm. Man since you left templar and joined mercs you kind of got a dark site to yourself, try not to look down into the abyss too much while chasing after me, the abyss has this habit to stare back at you.
Welcome to my world kinn  :D
I see it happens to you right now. Someone who you dont know about just talks bad about you. Well, they are just little kiddos..

About strudog, once he was Strudog_of_Abay before Templars  :wink:
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 29, 2013, 01:46:21 pm
Abay at least you don't need to ignore the blunt incapability of someone not getting his facts straight.
I have double the burden it seems to me.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Abay on October 29, 2013, 01:53:50 pm
You have my axe, pick and shield anyway  :)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 29, 2013, 02:23:54 pm
You have my axe, pick and shield anyway  :)
good to have you

(click to show/hide)
No plans so far, but with this attack i do have have the first war for the new clan, will see what can be done about it.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on October 29, 2013, 02:38:02 pm
someone not getting his facts straight.

Then tell me what fact I got wrong. You were my teacher for strategus until my Bros and me decided to do the next step. So maybe you can teach me something again.
Afaik you do not want your Clan to participate in Strategus for itself, until you reached the minimum of 20 members. Right now its 9 I believe. You said for yourself you wont participate in strategus anymore (see my first post). So what fact did I get wrong? Teach me!
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Fartface on October 29, 2013, 02:43:13 pm
Well if you´ve got Panos his axe, you´ve got my teenage drama army supporting you :mrgreen:
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: the real god emperor on October 29, 2013, 02:47:05 pm
Why cant you just live happily altogether  :(
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Butan on October 29, 2013, 03:18:05 pm
The day you enter the strategus map, you accept its rules kinn: no rules  :P


As much as the Brotherhood pays for their Treachery or Declaration of Independance (both are true), you also pay for having been their sworn enemies.

Like strudog said, coming back from a long break doesnt erase all memory of evil and good.


Quote
his clan will only merc in strat battles but we wont fight for land and engage in politics. Any fief which would be given to us would be still owned by the clan/faction who gave it to us therefor also used by that originating faction. We are not aiming to attack anyone within Strategus, till at a time we would have a substantial amount of members(at least 20), and those would vote with at least 70% to participate in Strategus ... Calradia is safe from any plots out of the cruel and nasty fangs of kinngrimm  :twisted: for now. Serously though one thing i didnt miss in my absence is to take care of fucking Strategus all the time. It is a great game in some areas and it is a fucking clusterfuck in other areas. So sry but for me no deal anymore ... fuck strategus  :wink:

Being under the banner of the Wolves till you reach 20 members and 70% of them accept to play Strat is like saying "dont attack me till im ready". Doesnt work like this unfortunately.


But why does your enemies waste their time wiping out an unarmed army ? What do they think you are trying to do ?
Quote
Council of Brodania
To near to our castle! kinn i know u do it on purpose


Thats the strength of strategus, everyone is free to believe and act as they will.


Looking forward to new drama!



Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Franke on October 29, 2013, 05:03:45 pm
So, what's the point of this thread? A member of the Wolves' Strat faction (UIF) has been attacked by a member of the Brotherhood ("Eastern Block"). Seriously, NA offers more Drama these days (not that I'm really missing EU drama  :wink:)
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 29, 2013, 11:21:07 pm
Looking forward to new drama!
incoooooming  :mrgreen:


So, what's the point of this thread? A member of the Wolves' Strat faction (UIF) has been attacked by a member of the Brotherhood ("Eastern Block"). Seriously, NA offers more Drama these days (not that I'm really missing EU drama  :wink:)
The point of this thread is a declaration of war.

I did  reenter Strategus with a new clan. As it seems i am not the only one in need to get over things ^^

I suggested to the perpetrators a possible solution to come clean, by handing over Yruma Castle which is a CFA claim and would then either be held by Wolf Pack Mercenaries, as it makes sence out of a geographic perspectiv or another CFA faction. After the suggestion i felt compelled to include that i took the betrayel to my person rather serious and that reperations to show goodwill and regain some honor, could be seen as a fresh start. I mentioned also along the lines that by noncomplience i would not want to have anything to do with them again. So be it.

"Auf Deutsch" Die Jungs haben Ihre Chance gehabt und können mir jetzt den Buckel runter rutschen. Heist ich kenne diese Unpersonen nicht mehr.

The day you enter the strategus map, you accept its rules kinn: no rules  :P
hey butan don't get all reasonable on me ;)
Surly you are correct there, the fact remains, i offered a way out of the stalement and a neverending bad aftertaste in the mouth. The offer haven't been accepted nore had there been a consideration on their side into that direction.


As much as the Brotherhood pays for their Treachery
What exactly did they pay? Gridlock ... Oh right ^^... There are many small clans out there who have done more with less ressoruces, even with only the stolen roughly 7k troops, gear for more then 10k and well you know the castle.

... Declaration of Independance ...
... my ars, they had been an independent clan, but then they formed a joined Strat Faction with another Clan, wait who had been the others? I must have forgotten them both already. Within the CFA i did most of the strategic planning, but everyone still was able to say "no" to my suggestions and thereby the overall strategy would change as i didn't go against the explicit wishes of the members. Oh and are they still togther with that other clan? No? What happened? Did they declare themselves independent from the independancy?  ... also I TOLD YOU SO

... a bunch of clowns who sacrifice an existing over 7 month long working friend&partnership, to grab a few fiefs from those who took them in and helped them build their shit up, but ended up gaining .... nothing ... a bunch of treacherous idling skilless clowns without any balls ... i will say no more, as i may get on the path to become creativ in my expressions. *grumbling:teethclenching;cursing;rumbling;murderinmyeyes*

what a reliefe, took me only 8 months to finally get that of my chest

you also pay for having been their sworn enemies.
no not really, but i did pay for being their friend, a mistake which will be not repeated with those cursed once

actually, they couldn't bother me less ...
i worry momentarilly about building up Fenris, as of last we have 15 members, numbers increasing.
Things soon wont proceed anymore with the same speed, as in the last 10 days though. I do expect to reach 20 members within the next month but then things will slow down as we are working out and introducing a few new systems and structures to the clan which need to be lived first. Since i brought the Wolf Pack Mercenaries in strat 3.0 to 120 members and had like a 24hour workday organizing them, since then i prefer smaller sized clans but with a higher % of active members and slower but steady growth. I intend also to implement a few things i try to learn from the leaders of Wolf Pact Mercenaries who came after me, as from what i have heared from them, they really kicked some bud  8-)

Like strudog said, coming back from a long break doesnt erase all memory of evil and good.
I may have overreacted there after all
..., Kingrimm is as evil as ever,...
this also can imply, not evil at all, as 'ever' is in this context like 'before' and before i haven't been evil  :P
so Strudog so sry going all 'Iraq II/WMDs are there' on your ars.

What do they think you are trying to do ?
pick one
A) fear i would attack them ... guess not ^^
B) fear i would steal their goods ... maybe, then again, why not wait till i bought them
C) being treacherous doucbags ... oh wait no, that is what i think of what they try to do
D) trampling over their lawn and they called the cops
E) super secret espionage mission ... as they think i got bad eyes, i needed to get closer to the castle to collect the data
F) ... please guys help me find more suitable reasons for them to attack me as clearly they are bit short on those
G) ...


/DRAMA

I wish us all a good fight tommorrow.  Lets crack some skulls and give Fenris :twisted: a happy meal
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Torben on October 29, 2013, 11:26:04 pm
kinn,  I thought you wanted to only merc in strat with your new clan.  fighting for land is the devil :'|
dont get pulled in mate.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 30, 2013, 01:43:23 am
kinn,  I thought you wanted to only merc in strat with your new clan.  fighting for land is the devil :'|
dont get pulled in mate.
At first that had been my intention yes, then i ilimited that statment, then my intentions changed and as of now:

a) i havent yet fully decided, i am conflicted about a few things
b) when i came back , i wanted to play cRPG, a title to stroke my epen  and something to do within Wolves again.
c) through the last 2 weeks i spoke a lot with my friends within Wolves, former Wolves, and other friends, one of the outcomes are the "Wolves of Fenris". Also i made several inquiries about the diplomatic status within Strat, this is me falling back into old habbits. A few mindgames started within such talks and oooops there was a small project on the horizon ... still all hushhush  :lol:
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Franke on October 30, 2013, 02:51:28 pm
Well, new clan or not (as far as I can see it's just the old stuff in a new bag anyway), in Strat you're a member of the Wolves faction as your own screenie shows (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=strategusinfobattledetail&id=5641#!?page=strategusinfobattledetail&id=5641), who are as a part of the UIF (or the "Grey Order and friends" block, if you prefer so) at war with "Coalition and friends" and thus also Bros anyway, so you declared war on a faction that your own faction already is at war with.

Just my two cents, you are of course free to declare war on whoever you want.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Flans on October 30, 2013, 03:52:28 pm
I'm at war with the brotherhood ? When did this happen.  I thought we made peace after the first war with the Murcs and so far they have not attacked anyone of my faction till now. Also when are you guys planning to come out of your fiefs to fight. After all the last 2 battles wolves vs Coa wolves got owned. Not happy with the 2/3-1 k/d ? We in the north are waiting and we are all hoping you put up more of a fight then the murcs.

just my two cents  you of course can hide like little bitches all you want. We will see you in them 10k+ fiefs after that 1/3 rule is removed.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 30, 2013, 04:04:47 pm
at war with "Coalition and friends"
...
while i wasnt pleased to see the War with Coallition when i came back,
2 of the "friends" Coallition chose this round i would say ar at least questionable.

You could say that about me too i guess, but i wasnt the one this round who fucked things up for Coallition members! Hint: the other clan i am implying has had fiefs in the north, but nomore
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on October 30, 2013, 04:05:22 pm
I'm at war with the brotherhood ? When did this happen.  I thought we made peace after the first war with the Murcs and so far they have not attacked anyone of my faction till now. Also when are you guys planning to come out of your fiefs to fight. After all the last 2 battles wolves vs Coa wolves got owned. Not happy with the 2/3-1 k/d ? We in the north are waiting and we are all hoping you put up more of a fight then the murcs.

just my two cents  you of course can hide like little bitches all you want. We will see you in them 10k+ fiefs after that 1/3 rule is removed.

It's spelt Mercs not Murcs  :rolleyes:

Good luck Kinn with this war, and good luck to your allies as well!
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Flans on October 30, 2013, 04:12:51 pm
It's spelt Mercs not Murcs  :rolleyes:

Good luck Kinn with this war, and good luck to your allies as well!

Hush you :) I can call em w/e I want now. They don't exist here anymore do they :)
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on October 30, 2013, 08:03:16 pm
I'm at war with the brotherhood ? When did this happen.  I thought we made peace after the first war with the Murcs and so far they have not attacked anyone of my faction till now.
We would like to keep up the neutrality with the Wolve Pack Mercenaries. I wrote in my first post, that this attack was done to get kinngrimm out of the area around Yruma Castle, because it is kinngrimm and not because it is a member of the Wolves Strategus faction. If you, Odysseus and all the other Wolves around, take offence out of this (of course we hope you dont) we cannot do anything against your descisions.

The point of this thread is a declaration of war.
And insulting the Brotherhood as shamefully losers of all honor and respect? Get over it...We never asked you about your betrayals or used them against you in the past and maybe in other strategus times, so I expect you to do the same to us now.


I suggested to the perpetrators a possible solution to come clean, by handing over Yruma Castle which is a CFA claim and would then either be held by Wolf Pack Mercenaries, as it makes sence out of a geographic perspectiv or another CFA faction. After the suggestion i felt compelled to include that i took the betrayel to my person rather serious and that reperations to show goodwill and regain some honor, could be seen as a fresh start. I mentioned also along the lines that by noncomplience i would not want to have anything to do with them again. So be it.
You, kinngrimm, do not have any claims at the moment as you said yourself several times now. I never heard from another Wolve that they want their castle back. It was pretty obvious that you would liked to have it back, but this happened about 10 months in the past and we did not get a word from any Wolve to give the castle back yet. Now we claim it for ourself as we owned it for a longer time then Wolves did.

There are many small clans out there who have done more with less ressoruces, even with only the stolen roughly 7k troops, gear for more then 10k and well you know the castle.
... my ars, they had been an independent clan, but then they formed a Strat Faction with another Clan. Within the CFA i did most of the strategic planning, but everyone still was able to say "no" to my suggestions and thereby the overall strategy would change as i didn't go against the explicit wishes of the members.
So for stealing 7k troops with (mostly shit) equipment for ~8k and a castle which is not more easy to defend then any of the castles the Wolves own at the moment you want to get a Castle with 27k troops (+3k population) with shiny gear for all of them in reward? This is even more "jewish" (sorry for the word, dont want to sound racist, but I dont know another word to express this so please dont feel offended) then me on the Marketplace...
We asked you several times to give the Bros a Town as reward for the duties we have done. And yes, we have done alot for you in these days. Not only producing troops, but also being active on the Strategus Map (now it is not like that anymore...you could compare the actions of the Wolves at the attack on Sungetche Castle with our activity in kinngrimms days). But you had your rules and we were so silly to let you do your moves. You always wanted the "important" fiefs for you. But there was not any fief which was not important for you...You always wanted us to do what you said with the fiefs and we just followed like blind dogs. Well, we changed i'd say.

actually, they couldn't bother me less ...

pick one
Why the Thread then?

I would say this Thread is giving enough reason.

a bunch of clowns
At the moment you are making a clown out of yourself with taking over bad behaviors on the forum.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Osiris on October 30, 2013, 08:22:49 pm
Hush you :) I can call em w/e I want now. They don't exist here anymore do they :)


Mercs are a crpg clan very much more active than your own and clearly does exist. apostates was a strat faction that lost the war and has one castle left. Mercenaries are also now a strat faction that has one city. There is a difference between strat and crpg perhaps learn it and your taunts can be directed at the right people ^^ I see you can tell the difference between Fallen/HRE and Coalition yet are unable to do so with mercs deserters and apostates. it baffles me :P
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Flans on October 30, 2013, 09:07:40 pm

Mercs are a crpg clan very much more active than your own and clearly does exist. apostates was a strat faction that lost the war and has one castle left. Mercenaries are also now a strat faction that has one city. There is a difference between strat and crpg perhaps learn it and your taunts can be directed at the right people ^^ I see you can tell the difference between Fallen/HRE and Coalition yet are unable to do so with mercs deserters and apostates. it baffles me :P

 >>>>>Hush you :) I can call em w/e I want now. They don't exist here anymore do they <<<<<<<

note the here? it stands for strategus, the fact you're an ignoramus shouldn't need to be reflected on what you say in this forum, this is the diplomacy thread for said strategus... unless of course you didn't notice that too.
I guess I should clarify some of the stuff I say about you murcs, some of you aren't as smart as I gave you credit for.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Osiris on October 30, 2013, 09:12:15 pm
clearly they DO exist here or does a main town not count ^^ but your right forgive me i misread your post as you kept mentioning a crpg clan which didnt exist on strat so when you talk about mercs i can only assume you dont mean Apostates but Mercs (who didnt exist until recently) perhaps we should both clarify or maybe i should assume you are not as smart as i would have thought as well :P We can both be dumb
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 30, 2013, 09:25:54 pm
i hear something buzzing, must be a fly

While not mentioning any names, it isn't easy to insult.

If things said are taken personally without being adressed directly, it may just be that on a subconscious level it had been applied to once self and the only thing surfacing consciousness was the hurt caused by the guilt of the truth whish is vocaly but denied.

Comparing one mans action with another mans action, you better make damn sure this action is identical otherwise befor you imply it is the same or you are doubly the fool. (hints: timeframes; partners in crime; goals and outcomes; reasons for the action)

As well is reading and understadning closely better, befor ranting about things half baken as claims allways had been there, thereby a constant casus belli at any time of the Wolves. Only because they didn't use it, doesn't make it less legit .... just unresolved as stated a long time ago (http://forum.melee.org/diplomacy/wolf-pack-mercenaries-treaties-claims-strat-4-0/) (if anyone is wondering about the edit timestamp: get a backup from admins, the changes i tried to include sofar where about how different relations have evolved for the Wolves, which isnt finished yet but afterwards i will ask admins to make the owner of that thread Odysseus, as he is the leader of the Wolves now.)

still there is this buzzing sound .. .where does it come from i cant see the source of it

----------------------------------
on a more or less related note:

a few days back before this attack on me, Zaalback came on his own in my TS channel, personally he appologized to me about that past event. I always give second and often third and 4th chances depending on how i was wronged, as the betrayel of him was not one of a 7 month long bond but only a couple of weeks and i heared he nevertheless ment it serriously, i am all good with him again. (i at that ocation may have asked for some reperations to get me started in strat which he was willing to give at first in full,  then later he needed to retract from the first agreement but was still willing to give me something. At least i saw he makes an effort to repair relations and is not arguing and trying to frame the blame on me about his own actions, in that sense Zaalback showed he has balls after everything else)
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on October 30, 2013, 10:03:19 pm
Nuff said. You had the chance to argue about this with me from man to man 8 month ago. You rejected. Now you came back. Wolves have changed and you are not their one and only leader anymore. So you made up a new Clan with your old supporters which makes sure you will be voted as leader for 99%. Come back to Yruma when you either got some resources with the mates from fenris or when got the wolves back under your command. I really doubt the second opportunity will happen, but no one knows.

Edit: GG Zaalback.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 30, 2013, 10:52:50 pm
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: no_rules_just_play on October 31, 2013, 01:39:59 am
I remember you backstabbing the coalition yourself a while back. Basically it's not coalition vs wolves/ fenris, but probably something more like rogue vs dirty traitor kinngrimm. Sucks!
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on October 31, 2013, 02:26:48 am
Welcome back.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 31, 2013, 03:41:16 am
I remember you backstabbing the coalition yourself a while back. Basically it's not coalition vs wolves/ fenris, but probably something more like rogue vs dirty traitor kinngrimm. Sucks!
i waited for this so now again for a 100th time.

1) Strat 2.0
i had collected bad impressions at the Start of 2.0 from Fallen, Byzantium and Risen, from arrogant to douchbags, when it came to cooperation requests. Resume: Small clans arent worth jack shit(we have had 15-20 members back then and we were thrilled to join the first time Strategus, if we only had known ^^)

In the end of that round i believed partly the propaganda parols by Mercs about Fallen being responsable for most of the problems we have had in the center. (After talking with Rogue in 4.0, i came meanwhile to some more differentiated conclusions)

2) Strat 3.0
In the beginning i told Byzantium Ujin, Nord Okin, Merc Nocti and Ginger aswell Kapikulu BattleGazi i would start in the desert.

I told even more about my plans to Okin, Ginger and Nocti.
Like:
- The exact starting positions
- the clans who are already willing to join the Desert Alliance
- the targets Fallen/HRE/GK we would aim for

At map start, i was surprised that those who either didn't mention or said they would be somewhere else,
turned out to be in the desert, while neglecting, NAP, Defense Pact or Alliance, but using up space i had communicated towards them earlier we would claim.(that already is a betrayel of trust you could argue)

Ujin appologized and said he had forgotten, which i accepted.
Okin just claimed a part of the desert and made in IRC public "whoever is for Fallen, needs to fight the Wolves in the desert" by that it was pretty clear the Desert Alliance had Nords opposing them in the Desert.  So we waged war against Nords. (another betrayel ? i was befor that strat already for motnhs regular on Nrod ts palying with the guys there and really wanted to make an alliance with them, but Okin was just like, no we are neutral, which wouldnt have been that bad, if he wouldnt have used up space where i told him we would be and you know the part about telling everyone our intentions, after that and other similar occations i at some point gave up on him. And with how Nords then reacted on me in 4.0 nothing really could be agreed on there either.)

Meanwhile Mercs were disappointed, that their former Contract Partner(even as we became pretty close in strat 2.0 it was always made clear to me, we have a contract not an alliance.); Then there was that skype screenshot which was leacked to me about "Wolves being Mercs bitches" , which was still quite funny and i didn't took very seriously; Then there i was witness how they also were able to majorly fuck up diplomatic relations when i was in the Union meeting and Ginger basicly showed Union leadership the middlefinger by implying that Union would lie to them about an agreement about a village claim 3 months ago. After accusing the leader he would lie the situation wasnt salvageble anymore and in strat 4.0 we saw the final outcome which to my believe started with that accusation.
would not join them again to help hold the center of the map. In strat 2.0 i witnessed some more things which made me choose a different path in 3.0, there i will say no more, never had.

After 2 weeks of war against Nords, it became pretty obvious that they would be supported by someone else.
Wolves had at that time already 70(when i left 120 + 20 free agents), Crusaders 90(later 110 if i remember correctly) members on the map , + French Connection 20 + Camel Screamers 10, + CotgS 15, if you also count our NA Allies, Hospitallers with 60 at start Occitan with 40 and Lost Legion with around 10.
Nords had roughly 30 at start and at the end of the war around 40, at end of that map 70 in strat 4.0 many more members. The numbers game was on our side.

We have had from day 1 a trade agreement with Grey Order, and a NAP with DRZ. That was pretty much the diplomacy towards UIF. We the Desert Alliance back in the day intended to be the 3rd powerblock or replace one of the others.

Now to that socalled betrayel. As already known by now, the Desert Alliances targets, partners and locations,
i was from day 1 till about 1 to 2 motnhs into the game when this peace meeting was, regularly approached.
By Marktplatz, by BattleGazi, by Ujin, by several Mercs, all pretty much with the same message to me.
Come on, make peace with Nords, just grab the areas of Templars, forget about the small factions and march with us together against DRZ.
That was the refrain.

As we then were in a stalement with Nords, who got resupplied as i was later also confired, at that time but only suspected, by Byzantium, Kapikulu and HRE, which held that war artificialy alife, there i was one evening invited to an "Alliance" meeting.
I was currious, why i would be invited to an Alliance meeting and who else would be there, as i wasnt part of their alliance ^^.
So i went there and heared again the refrain, but this time with more force and more voices at the same time, besides those i mentioned before, there also had been Fallen and Nords in ts. Nords came a bit later, as the others first needed to work me. After a while i got upset, but kept my cool. I told them, "i couldnt just leave my alliance partners alone"; "but perhaps templars would wanna join in, if i may collect alpha and ask him about that too". Silcene .. .then i believe Ujin said "that would be even better"(remember Ujin always ranting about numbers ...)

Anyhow, i went back to my ts and chatted with alpha in steam and he came by and we taked, first he was like "wtf"
then he became aware that i was really pissed at those bastards and he figured, "we are not doing that for real" ... silence ... gigling like little kids ... "nope we wont". There the ruse was born.

Now if anyone should have known by then, it should have been Mercs. In strat 2,0, FCC/BRD Matey, tried to bribe me and make me brake my word over a period of 3 months. Partly it was quite funny what he tried and we chatted then quite often, partly i was annyoed and sick to my stomach afterwards. Every*fucking*time he tried, i told Mercs about it, "Yo guess who wrote me again ^^" ; "Ah matey tried again ^^". So Mercs should really have known, and when you would for a moment concider that what i told so far is as close to the truth as objectivly possible(surly out of my perspective but everything is subjectiv after all)
Then you would acknowledge that noone really would have believed me, which Loki also stated later, that "we are all in",  pressed into that "unholy Alliance" alpha and other memebrs of the Desert Allaince called it since then.

Another missconception but not from the euros but the NA guys, they beleived we first afterwards took Hospitallers in, but Hospitallers who i first made contact to through after i saw how they were the only once really making an effort defending shit in 2.0 of the Northern Alliance, they were full alliance partners all the way and got from time to time resupplies, and did a helll of a job skirmishing Fallen. We took over Hospitaller goods and swapped them with Grey Order at the beginning, later Union made sepparated deals with Hospitallers/Occitan.

Some may have not seen the big picture, but at least 60% of those parties at the table of these 2 unholy alliance meetings were aware, everything afterwards the flamewar and the hate mails and endless topics and pages of propaganda was just frustration on their part that they didnt finish us of when they thought they had the chance, but made peace in hope for us chaning our minds and i would accept to betrayel someone else on the behalf of the unholly Allaince. Also i didnt get any information out of this i didnt already knew about, a few confirmations yes, but nothing really new. As i said i have had upto 20 guys without clan tag on scouting duty, most boring job ever, but they filled in information regularly in our forum.

After all it was not possible for me , to change my mind, i was not only leader of my clan, but sort of leader of an international, transcontinantel alliance of 340 to upto roughly 420 players. We had agreements from the beginning, as i have had them with Mercs in 2.0. I sticked to these agreements. I didnt only plan for strat 3.0 but also towards 4.0, finding clans and leaders we would get along with so a prolonged cooperation would be possible.


So yes i did make a ruse in a timeline of 2 weeks and then we lifted the shadows again.

Strat 4.0
Chris, Nogo, Austriano, Kalikado(former Wolf), Lance and the other Bros, worked together with me for over half a year, we did come to know each other quite well in that time and i allways told them about the big picture, and that things need a lot of patience and time. I gave them first one, then a second village, we helped them to get Hrus castle and 2 villages there. When they joined in with Risen, i warned him, as Risen has had not a good track record within this very strategus, they wouldnt listen. I told him befor they made Steel Axis, that they wouldnt have 5 but 3-4 fiefs, they would need to give away 1-2 of those fiefs again, he didnt liked that. Reason were all in all missing numbers and also that we got new partners. He didnt like that i asked him to relocate to Yruma, he could have said no but he didnt, I could have lived with a no, but instead he started at some point lieing, braking the trust. Some have suggested to me, Bros had been a plant from the beginning by Mercs, i didnt believe that, i still dont. Im my believe you first need to give trust, then people will give you trust in return and yes sometimes you can miss a nuance or in this case didnt want to believe they would go behind my back ... i was trusting.

On the other hand, BlackFist had started out as vassals as did Bros, when BlackFist cancled the vassalage, i tried to the best of my abilites to also help establshing them afterwards on the map, mostly i was asked a whole in my brain  :wink:, in the beginning by Heskeytime then by LeMikz. So doing indepandancy was not a big deal, that option but for Bros was not enough, they needed to declare war ... because i have been so bad to them ... yeah sure .... no because it was clear from the beginning if you leave the CFA you leave the CFA fiefs behind ... It would have been more honest just to stay in Hrus castle and declare yourself neutral ... but Yruma castel has had some other advantages i guess ...

These two situations no_rules_just_play are so different on so many levels, that simplfying it in the sense of it would be the same ....  that it is just mindboggling wrong.

Welcome back.
:D thanks man and congratz to Fisdnar. After a too long exile you have finnally returned to your rightful heritage.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: marlla on October 31, 2013, 09:00:05 am
I will fight for your Army Kinngrimm  :twisted:
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on October 31, 2013, 10:39:35 am
(click to show/hide)

Kinngrimm, nobody asked for your novel about strategus :D
    The point gets lost in this massive wall of text.

Lets get back to the initial point that No_Rules made and focus on just that.

I remember you backstabbing the coalition yourself a while back.

So the notion is:



Did Kinngrimm backstab the Coalition?

So i went there and heared again the refrain, but this time with more force and more voices at the same time, besides those i mentioned befor, there also had been Fallen and Nords in ts. Nords came a bit later, as the others first needed to work me. After a while i got upset, but kept my cool. I told them, "i couldnt just leave my alliance partner alone"; "but perhaps templars would wanna join in, if i may colect alpha and ask him about that too". Silcene .. .then i believe Ujin said "that would be even better"(remember Ujin always ranting about numbers ...)

Anyhow, i went back to my ts and chatted with alpha in steam and he came by and we taked, first he was like "wtf"
then he became aware that i was really pissed at those bastards and he figured, "we are not doing that for real" ... silence ... gigling like little kids ... "nope we wont". There the ruse was born.
This bit is the only thing I find really relevant. So to summarize the course of events:


The further details of your backstab makes also makes this betrayal extraordinarily rotten, but I can't even believe that you as much as attempt to deny that you backstabbed us all, the Coalition, the alliance, everyone. How can there be as much as a simple doubt in this matter? I respect you as a player, and I respect your intelligence Kinngrimm, but I certainly don't respect this unhinged disregard for other people, who put their faith and trust in you. I'm well aware its a game, and I'm not taking things too seriously, but the amount of lying and backstabbing you did in those two weeks will never make me fully trust you again.

I'm even supposed to be in the "Evil" clan of the two of us, and I, nor any of the people in my clan, would allow ourselves to lie and cheat so much behind peoples back, even in a game.



And now to the real hypocrisy: You even have the balls to be mad about others being traitors to you! You accuse the Brotherhood of being "Cowardly backstabbers" when you've done the exact same thing to at least as big a scale. As I've mentioned before, you're an intelligent man, so I am simply baffled that you allow yourself this false virtue.

So please, enlighten me on this matter (And only this).
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Flans on October 31, 2013, 10:52:45 am
You betrayed The Wolves by not attacking the Apostates when they broke alliance and attacked us the first time.

Then to top it all off when peace was forced on the opposing parties you say that you'l attack whoever breaks the peace this time.

Then you betray the Apostates by letting them get wiped.

You people needed the Wolves (CFA?), The Apostates, yourselves and the Temps to beat the GO who were semi active. By throwing away your  "friends" (we'l call it that) you forced a defensive  war on your selves that you will lose when the 1/3d rule is removed.
(I wonder how good your grinding troops will go when you're getting hit 10x a day)

I made this small for your small attention spans.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Osiris on October 31, 2013, 11:42:10 am
Strat drama best drama :-P
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Darkoveride on October 31, 2013, 12:07:20 pm
This is my new favorite thread.

Keep Flaming.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on October 31, 2013, 12:11:44 pm
You betrayed The Wolves by not attacking the Apostates when they broke alliance and attacked us the first time.

Then to top it all off when peace was forced on the opposing parties you say that you'l attack whoever breaks the peace this time.

Then you betray the Apostates by letting them get wiped.

You people needed the Wolves (CFA?), The Apostates, yourselves and the Temps to beat the GO who were semi active. By throwing away your  "friends" (we'l call it that) you forced a defensive  war on your selves that you will lose when the 1/3d rule is removed.
(I wonder how good your grinding troops will go when you're getting hit 10x a day)

I made this small for your small attention spans.

Just like Kinngrimm, you conveniently miss the point and start talking about something completely different.

I say again, the notion was:

Did Kinngrimm backstab the Coalition?

You've said nothing to me about this point, so I would kindly ask you to go and make another thread or send me a pm about it. You're also welcome to come to my TS so we can talk it out, and we can both be enlightened.

As to what you're saying, I'll make a quick reply and then leave it to the rest of my coalition fellows to answer more thoroughly if need be.

You betrayed The Wolves by not attacking the Apostates when they broke alliance and attacked us the first time.

How can we betray the Wolves when we never had an alliance with them?

Then to top it all off when peace was forced on the opposing parties you say that you'l attack whoever breaks the peace this time.

Then you betray the Apostates by letting them get wiped.

These two points join together. Looks like you forgot that we did send armies to the north to help the Apostates.

You people needed the Wolves (CFA?), The Apostates, yourselves and the Temps to beat the GO who were semi active. By throwing away your  "friends" (we'l call it that) you forced a defensive  war on your selves that you will lose when the 1/3d rule is removed.
(I wonder how good your grinding troops will go when you're getting hit 10x a day)

This is just lies, there's really no need for me to answer this. I direct to the previous threads about these subjects. Read them and change your points, because they are nothing but baseless statements, (hopefully) born from ignorance.

I made this small for your small attention spans.

In short: Get your facts straight.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 31, 2013, 12:23:51 pm

Kinngrimm, nobody asked for your novel about strategus :D
I wanted to a) show causalities & timelines b) perspectives

    The point gets lost in this massive wall of text.
That maybe so, still i tried to structure as good as possible.


I do call things differently sure, as from my perspective and my reasoning, they are.
I didn't deny my deeds as i told them i call them but a ruse with quite a different depth to it.
2 weeks tricking someone, with rarely any conntact, yes some lieing by fairly saying anything in a meeting OMG, as noone ever would ever lied on your behalf or you yourself.

... How can there be as much as a simple doubt in this matter?

 I respect you as a player, and I respect your intelligence Ramses Kinngrimm, but I certainly don't respect this unhinged disregard for other people. I'm well aware its a game, and I'm not taking things too seriously,

but the amount of constant arrogance you and your allies put into pressuring me to
leave "all the worthless smaller clans" behind. This was always the tenor from the big clans you know.
It started that way in strat 2.0 when i looked for cooperations and was small clan myself. And Risen, Mercs, Byzantium or Fallen all acted as bigshots not on eye level or worse treated me like a worthless peace of shit.


And now to the real hypocrisy: You even have the balls to be mad about others being traitors to you! You accuse the Brotherhood of being "Cowardly backstabbers" when you've done the exact same thing to at least as big a scale. As I've mentioned before, you're an intelligent man, so I am simply baffled that you allow yourself this false virtue.

So please, enlighten me on this matter (And only this).

Alright then lets ahve a look at you, hypocrits with double standarts trying to corrupt me, wanted me to be the same, to also treat the smaller clans with the exact same arrogance, leave them behind and betray them, but work with you as you would have have some inbreed higher value, royalty by choice, the bigger fish, with the rightousssness and the holy cause to fight DRZ and UIF

... dudes you have a blind spot in the size of a watermelon when it comes to introperspective. Dont you dare get all moral on me. I tried here again to reflect and tell you my view points of the story, but you still have your head up your ass,  so far there is no sunlight to be seen.

You wanted the Wolves even the templars, as our numbers were impressiv, but French Connection, Camel Screamers, CotgS ... you wanted me to kick them and leave them behind. You guys still dont get it or do you? You asked me over and over again, you tried me .., you tried to make me question myself and my values and you tried to corrupt my values instead of just leaving me alone and having a good time playing the game, you were the snake in the garden trying to break my will.

I don't condone my own action, i gave you to some extent something from your own medicin, i defeninetly despice how this game had already been played without me adding to it.

And then man, how you all went nuclear after it came out, as your people would be so much more worth then the 420 players i supported.

Tell me now, how worthless are the smaller clans? Even in the beginning of strat 4.0, Rogue repeated this notion by telling me "it isnt worth the trouble" Still the same subtext.

... to an extent it is trouble yes, but totally worth it, fun, helping dudes getting rolling in strat and if done right also effective as by now people should have realised.

So when you for once take your blindfold of your eyes, you may come to realise, that you punctured a nerv with me, back then and still do, by your blissfull ignorance over your own arrogance. If you want to call me a backstabber, do it, but dude, the wrotten once had been you all along.

Since strat 2.0 i worked with a plan in my mind towards enabling smaller clans, without dictating them.
I may not be the best person to do so, but i really tried as i saw it was the right thing to do.
The Project was/is called "Circle of Peace"(CoP) and the CFA is a predessor to it. Grandmom was the first i told about it and showed him my documents, which date back to the end of strat 2.0. Gettting something regualted so that smaller factions have a place on the map, with a few medium sized factions to protect the smaller once. And when those are ready help them to gain some areas outside of that construct.

So that huge clans and factions consisting out of several clans wouldnt be just taking shit away from the small dudes.
The goal was and is to get more colors on the map, not less.
Guess who is responsible for me having this goal?

Clans like yours.

So please, enlighten me on this matter (And only this).
Backstab after 7 months VS Ruse of 2 weeks
No tell, as they didnt say no VS 2 months telling to bugger of
Inferiority complex on Bros side VS Superiority complex on Fallen/Byzantium/Mercs
Using ressources which didnt belong to them VS i gave in the 2 weeks Kapikulu Ressources back, which they lost to a raider i recaptured for them, a substantial amount of gear
no remorse vs acceptance and acknologing my deeds, defining them partly differently


edit:
@FLANS Coallition hasnt had any alliance with Wolves, we have had a NAP and the same enemies.
But Coalltion had been allied, to Crusaders and Mercs. And Wolves had been allied to Crusaders.
And as Fallen/GK/HRE were in the same entity/alliance Coallition, we built the entity/alliance CFA(difference was we choose to keep the colors for every member, against efficency reasoning but pro Identity)
So Coallition was in their full right to attack us, as by definition in a "FULL ALLIANCE" they have the same enemies.
Really bad this situation was for Crusaders, as they had now to choose with whom to side with.

I also wrote Thomas and Rogue, that i didnt like the outcoem that we became enemies this strat, but they sticked to Mercs, who did a few things which in teh end brought eastern block down.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Flans on October 31, 2013, 01:12:14 pm
How can we betray the Wolves when we never had an alliance with them?

aaaaand there we go, that was the only thing I wanted out of you, this whole forum vomiting can end now.
There was no betrayal since there was never an alliance to begin with.
This applies to the mercs as well.


>>>> THIS STRAT ROUND <<<< no one, I repeat NO ONE cares about strat 1,2 and 3.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Molly on October 31, 2013, 01:36:58 pm
[...] this whole forum vomiting can end now.
[...]
Please, don't, sooo much drama... it's awesome. Even addictive. Kinngrimm, the saviour of small clans vs... well... the rest really... right? Am I missing something?
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Butan on October 31, 2013, 02:15:24 pm
I gathered my strength and read all those posts...


This, gentlemen, is what I learnt from hours of undue thinking:




In Strategus round 2 :

- A is at war with B on B claimed territory
- A wants to go at war with big C
- A propose peace and alliance with B
- B says ok, but in fact says no
- A goes to war with C
- A calls B to war against C
- B ignore the call from A
- C destroy all humanity and eat kittens

B says, A is evil, didnt deserve his word.
A says, B is evil, didnt respect his word.


In Strategus round 3 :

- B hates A, work against him
- A hates B, work against him


In Strategus round 4 :

- B hates A, work against him
- A hates B, work against him


[...]


In Strategus round 38 :

- B hates A, work against him
- A hates B, work against him




The End.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Rogue on October 31, 2013, 02:20:21 pm
You betrayed The Wolves by not attacking the Apostates when they broke alliance and attacked us the first time.

Then to top it all off when peace was forced on the opposing parties you say that you'l attack whoever breaks the peace this time.

Then you betray the Apostates by letting them get wiped.

You people needed the Wolves (CFA?), The Apostates, yourselves and the Temps to beat the GO who were semi active. By throwing away your  "friends" (we'l call it that) you forced a defensive  war on your selves that you will lose when the 1/3d rule is removed.
(I wonder how good your grinding troops will go when you're getting hit 10x a day)

I made this small for your small attention spans.

Yes, this is exactly how it went down! Do you really believe this? This is golden. thanks Wolves_FlameKid!  :lol:

@Kinn Ramses has you there, moving and twiggling will just squeeze them tighter.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 31, 2013, 02:23:36 pm
....

>>>> THIS STRAT ROUND <<<< no one, I repeat NO ONE cares about strat 1,2 and 3.
I didn't bring it up, but i don't let myself get slandered from guys, who personally dont know me , but talk about my morals and telling me i'd be the hypocrit here ^^.

And Odysseus, this is more or less your first strat, at least in a leader position. Believe me, to those who interact with each other on that level, history does matter.

As it is the whole reason for the EAST vs WEST Block war of this round,
the unholy alliance vs UIF last round, the same in round 2 and it did start in round 1.

Another example, Mercs tried to stay neutral, in strat 1, that gained them a lot of areas and a lot of anger. In strat 2, they already had a prolonged contract partner, in 3.0 they sided with Fallen after getting wiped within the first months, as they pissed of at least one of the UIF members(Union) in 2.0, The comeback of Mercs into strat 3.0 was at one point neglected as Desert Alliance wiped the Fallen/HRE/GK second chance of Mercs ... guess who was blamed ^^.

So there is a causality to all these reactions, people coem to witness soemtiems on teh forum, if tehy don't know teh history, it is hard for them to see teh reasons and the legitemisy of arguments. Thats why my posts also are LONG. I want to fill in the blanks for those who don't know, instead of keeping everyone in the dark and just repeating mindless propaganda.

... Kinngrimm, the saviour of small clans vs... well... the rest really... right? Am I missing something?
Not a saviour as i do have self interests. Most of the times, the Wolves had been a small to medium sized clan. Only in strat 3.0 we became fucking huge, then still not as huge as other clans.

I don't want to have to be a huge faction/clan only so i wouldn't be bullied and interact as equal.
I still think Game Mechanics need to take that more into consideration as a balancing issue.

.
.
.

At start of 4.0 we had been roughly 30 members in the faction. I had still friends from 3.0 CotgS 20 members, Les Trois Lys(French Connection) 40 members and my friends Crusaders, which but instead of the original plan we had, to go together in the snowlands wanted to be in the desert. I know the reasons for that and it was ok. Also Alpha made an Alliance between Templars and Wolves, by that trying to protect our asses up in the North. That worked as they also had been close to Coallition/Mercs meanwhile, who may have just kicked us out straight at the start. Afterall there was quite some trust issues, as in this thread again confirmed by ramses and seen with the attacks from Mercs 8 month ago.

I, the Wolves, the CFA, did their part to prove that we can be trust worthy, but Mercs continued undermining the spirit of the eastern block. Like, asking me to attack Ottomans, telling me they would do so too, then staying out of it and making a "neverending NAP" with Ottoamns gaining Sargoth area for free, while (i imply) hoping for CFA to bleed. The reasosn behind that you can put together yourself. And there had been other things, personal attacks, the least of them, lieing and giving false hope ... and instead of helping Crusaders in their time of need when they where taking out one Grey Order fief after another while getting attacked in their Yalen areas(funfact: i bought and sold to Crusaders ^^, as occitan arowain had been an ally the strat before) and i/Wolves/CFA were bound with Ottomans war; Mercs stood idly by.

That was THE turning point in the war against UIF and within the eastern block. Not only me or Crusaders, but also Coallition were then pissed at Mercs.

Then trying again to get them to hold a few agreeemnts, they earlier distantiated themselves from and i lost my cool in the forum over the fucking propaganda crap of mercs, shortly afterwards, i disallowed them free passage, and after that they attacked us and our Defense Pact Partner BlackFist joined in on Mercs side, so did our CFA Alliance Partner Brootherhood.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Osiris on October 31, 2013, 02:35:39 pm
What we do in strat echos in eternity!!

Your going to have the same enemies every strat because you all don't like or trust each other :P only small/solo factions led by those not well knock or not leaders of previous factions can change or do anything different it seems ^^
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 31, 2013, 02:40:36 pm
...

@Kinn Ramses has you there, moving and twiggling will just squeeze them tighter.
:) look Rogue, i don't blame big clans for being big, i see the arms race and the simalarites to RL politics and geopolitical strategies. I even get that Okin, tried to stay neutral in 3.0/4.0 and when i asked him also again, imposing the realities that we needed that space to be able to get our economy up, that he wasnt inclide to be pressed into an alliance in 3.0. I do get that you, ramses, and others had have some hopes in strat 3.0, which had been shattered by me and that in a way which wasnt nice and i told you in 4.0 in the beginning and later, i wouldnt hold it against you if you would just wipe us, up there in the north. You had been speaking very openly, sometimes rough, but at least not to me ever insulting. I do respect you and came to like your personality.

Please but try to understand, that the way i came to be in strategus, the way i was treated, does matter. It is about realtions after everything else. And while HRE even in 2.0 did retreat from an attack after i questioned what was going on, i was at that time too close through a contract with some very very paranoid people, then again Mercs have also quite some nice people, and i f.e. do still like Gingerpussy very much. I had very deep and long talks with him in strat 2.0 and we shared a few moments of equality, mutual understanding and  to some extent as it is possible in this virtual environment also friendship, same counts to soem extent for some other Mercs like Blueberry. So i also do get that they were disappointed in strat, taht a) i wouldnt help them b) were even going against them when Mercs choose Fallen/HRE sides after getting wiped and tried to get back in the game with your help.

I did see my wrong in strat 3.0, and i tried to make up for it in 4.0 and you know it!
That i still have nevertheless different perspectives on strat 3.0 is in the nature of things inherent. There i agree to disagree.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 31, 2013, 02:56:39 pm
...

Your going to have the same enemies every strat ...
2.0
position: center
partner: contract for mutual security with a defined end point with mercs; cotgs as friends who helped, and Bandits which first became vassalas and then mergerd into Wolves.
enemies: we had a count of at least 16 different clans and also including alliance entities we waged war against.
3.0
position: desert
partners: cotgs, Crusaders, camel screamers, French connection(viva la france :D); Hospitallers, Occitan, Lost Legion
enemies: Nords, Byzantium, Kapikulu, GK, HRE, Fallen, Mercs, Grey Order, Chaos

4.0
position: Snowlands with intention to stick there from now on every round
partners: cotgs, Les Trois Lys(the kings sign the flower) aka French Conenction, Crusaders but at a different position, Eastern block
ennemies: many more new once and then again old once ...
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Rogue on October 31, 2013, 03:00:26 pm
The point is that you still try to whitewash what happened in Strat3. Remember what you told me on Steam immediatly after the big "coming out"? That you were sorry and you claimed that, at the very least, you will not try to deny and stand for what and how you did it? This did not last very long, minutes later you were already hard had work to construct the tale of an unwilling kinngrimm being "pressured" into something he didn't want.

It was not even close to that. You had your backs to the wall and the war vs the Nords was going nowhere. I even asked you specifically about Hospitaller & Occitan, because after talking with Peppo & Arrowaine (which was bascially a 30min rant about what an evil SOB Loki was), I had serious doubts there would be any agreement possible. You claimed they didn't matter and the war should go on. I don't know where this sad story about the opressed small clans comes from, but it was never a topic in these talks. There was also no unwillingness on your part. You seemed very eager for it, even personally put up the agreement on googledocs to move things forward.

It did work out for you beautifully I have to give you that. Until GO came knocking ofc. Well played, but just stop trying to whitewash it from the "stain" being a backstabber, you lied to my face daily for a month on a very personal level.

Quote
I did see my wrong in strat 3.0, and i tried to make up for it in 4.0 and you know it!
Yes you did! I admit I was not happy when Alpha "rammed you all down our collective throats", as we came to call it, on the voting day. First we accepted it mainly because of Alpha, who we and especially I already held in high regards <3. We also fulfilled our obligations to you in the voting, as strange as it felt to hand over all these fiefs to someone so many of us still wanted to see bleed.

We did form a good working relationship and I came to trust you again. Remember hat I told you about that Ottoman/Merc issue and your concerns about Mercs in general! When the Apostates started that war against Wolves/CFA we were asked to participate (by both sides btw) and contemplated doing it, but among being a collosal waste of resources you did not deserver it, and especially after you left punishing Wolves for Strat3 would have been wrong. I even worked my ass off to help broker a peace between some very stubborn Mercs and Wolves with outrageous and silly demands on both sides. In the end big turkish pride and general inactivity made it all useless. A decision I presently regret.

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Mercs stood idly
The story of Mercs in Strat 4 summed up. I am not saying this to trashtalk Mercs, just ask Tyr how much I kept trying to kick his ass into action.

As a sidenote:
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And while HRE even in 2.0 did retreat from an attack after i questioned what was going on
I do remember this, first time we ever talked. But this giant army was always inteded to and proceeded to head further north to help FCC vs DRZ.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Casimir on October 31, 2013, 03:03:07 pm
essentially this ^
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: GRANDMOM on October 31, 2013, 03:38:54 pm
I even worked my ass off to help broker a peace between some very stubborn Mercs and Wolves with outrageous and silly demands on both sides.

We know you and casimir did do that, thankyou, however I still remember the demands from both side, at least the official ones, or the ones presented to me. In short this is it:

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Our demand to have a shot at killing of the Bros was silly and outrageous, just asking?

Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Franke on October 31, 2013, 03:41:20 pm
NA offers more Drama these days

Wow, that escalated quickly...

Anyway, Kinn, I wasn't aware that Wolves and Bros in fact are not at war officially, so you got a point here. The nature of strat mechanics (the one with the most grinders has the most gold, troops, equip) tends to turn my view on the Strat world into a "us against them" where Wolves are "They" and Bros are "We" for me...
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Guray on October 31, 2013, 03:55:29 pm
Battlegazi => Battalgazi  8-)
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 31, 2013, 04:13:29 pm
The point is that you still try to whitewash what happened in Strat3. Remember what you told me on Steam immediatly after the big "coming out"? That you were sorry and you claimed that, at the very least, you will not try to deny and stand for what and how you did it? This did not last very long, minutes later you were already hard had work to construct the tale of an unwilling kinngrimm being "pressured" into something he didn't want.
The world is not only black or white, it is grey(no pun intended, otherwise i would add 'without order'). Why in your and other peoples minds, can only be one of these positions be true, it is not math or binary code. In human relations, the perspective is different in how you expierence situations. I did what i did out of my own reasons. The difference is, i did saw and see your perspective and ackowledged them, why cant others care to try to put themselves into my shoes ^^.  I know that i caused pain in a way which wasnt nice and yes i appologized, also to Battalgazi back then. He was pissed, but congratulated me to a good ruse i played.

It was not even close to that. You had your backs to the wall and the war vs the Nords was going nowhere.
We were in a stalement.
I always said, it was a good chance to take a breath, but the same could be said also for you and Kapis, as you also had 2 weeks to reorganize ... well with a different appraoch perhaps in mind but still, you wouldnt have recalled every troops as the main enemy out of your perspective still was there DRZ by name.

I even asked you specifically about Hospitaller & Occitan, because after talking with Peppo & Arrowaine (which was bascially a 30min rant about what an evil SOB Loki was), I had serious doubts there would be any agreement possible. You claimed they didn't matter and the war should go on. I don't know where this sad story about the opressed small clans comes from, but it was never a topic in these talks. There was also no unwillingness on your part. You seemed very eager for it, even personally put up the agreement on googledocs to move things forward.
Well to play a ruse, you need to make it believable, we also attacked Hospitallers because of that reason, took the goods, swapped them with GO and brought back materials to Hospitallers. The players in Asugan Castle could have eysily determined the true nature of the realtions and there were some. Again Loki addmitted he always knew "as a matter of fact" that we were playing them, but couldnt do anything about it. If he didnt tell you, i dont know why.
Loki is a special character from what i have seen sofar ... but arent we all *sigh*


I think i have now perhaps the best answer on how for me betrayel is different then a ruse.

A ruse is something very short lived and also from the start intended to be as such. A Betrayel is out of a longterm relationship possible, where people did really "earn" each others trust at first and then at some point decided to go against their word they gave.

For those who have to suffer through it, there may not be a big difference, but there is defenitly one for the initiating side.

You may notice i dont do any judgment what is better or worse, both will lead to pain.

Also when people but speak about these things, they can say "I felt betrayed" in both cases, but they cant say i felt rused ^^, more likely they say : "i was tricked"

So yes i lied, tricked and played you in 3.0, but i still see no betrayel, it was a ruse.
I would have made a betrayel if i would have went with you, as at first intendet without Templars, they you may remember werent invited at first and the question where nevcer would they also help but i offered to ask them on my own(also do gain time to think things over).


We did form a good working relationship and I came to trust you again.
Remember hat I told you about that Ottoman/Merc issue and your concerns about Mercs in general! When the Apostates started that war against Wolves/CFA we were asked to participate (by both sides btw) and contemplated doing it, but among being a collosal waste of resources you did not deserver it, and especially after you left, punishing Wolves for Strat3 would have been wrong. I even worked my ass off to help broker a peace between some very stubborn Mercs and Wolves with outrageous and silly demands on both sides. In the end big turkish pride and general inactivity made it all useless. A decision I presently regret.
The story of Mercs in Strat 4 summed up. I am not saying this to trashtalk Mercs, just ask Tyr how much I kept trying to kick his ass into action.

all true and also again as meanwhile not surprsing to me anymore, with good judgment.

As a sidenote:I do remember this, first time we ever talked. But this giant army was always intended to and proceeded to head further north to help FCC vs DRZ.
I am inclined to believe you, especially as i have some trouble remembering the exact circumstances .

In my memory, the first time you came up towards Ulburban, it was "shortly before the FCC war" started. That was when we first talked. ( I did before once meet up with Loki and another dude i dont remember, where vassalge was offered to me with one village and the atmosphere was rather cold)

We have had a 3 months war then with FCC, where you at some point also came with with 8k to 10k into Merc lands and with combined efforts we, Mercs and Wolves pushed you back. That had been some nice fights. A week of constant battle and so few sleep i never ever had in any other situation.

I was told by Mercs back then repeatidly that FCC would be a Fallen plant and would get the neverending ressources from there. But as also mentioned in an earleier post, after talking to you in ts and chatting in steam, i reconsidered my preconceptions.
Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Osiris on October 31, 2013, 04:17:21 pm
ruse = betrayal

1.
a. To give aid or information to an enemy of; commit treason against: betray one's country.
b. To deliver into the hands of an enemy in violation of a trust or allegiance: betrayed Christ to the Romans.
2. To be false or disloyal to: betrayed their cause; betray one's better nature.
3. To divulge in a breach of confidence: betray a secret.
4. To make known unintentionally: Her hollow laugh betrayed her contempt for the idea.
5. To reveal against one's desire or will.
6. To lead astray; deceive. See Synonyms at deceive.

Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Conquisitore on October 31, 2013, 04:22:33 pm
Amazing stories bros

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(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: Zaalback on October 31, 2013, 06:59:19 pm
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Title: Re: attacked by cowardly Brootherhood
Post by: kinngrimm on October 31, 2013, 08:04:36 pm
we had a nice peasent battle and great fun on TS  :D (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=strategusinfobattledetail&id=5641)

Thanks to all for showing up and cya next time.


I am closing this thread now as the battle is done.
We can indulge more into our drama another time, if need be  :lol:.