Florida Statutes, Chapter 776 – Justifiable Use of Force: 776.013 (3):
“A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”
What do you mean, overreacted?
Shot the kid?I somehow doubt his race had anything to do with it when Trayvon was pounding his head against the concrete and went for his gun
Who is that and why should i care?
I somehow doubt his race had anything to do with it when Trayvon was pounding his head against the concrete and went for his guntrue true but it's just that its vague what really happened and why he couldn't just grapple him to the ground, since he is some neighbourhood watchdawg i reckon hed have taken some basic self defence classes, or he was an incompetent one and got overpowered easily and pulled his gun cause he didnt stand a chance. Still a more competent guy should stand in such position, inexperienced guards would be far more trigger happy(well not happy : Pbut sooner too shoot cause they cant handle stress as good as ) causing imo shootings like this more likely to occur, instead of a clean simple arrest
Wow ptx, go edumacate yourself, you are Trayvon...and why should i care?
How many people who have tried to kill you have you "just grappled to the ground"? Also, Neighbourhood watch =/= Delta Force.
Losing a fistfight that you could have prevented in the first place and then resolving it with a gun.What? It's not called a fistfight when someone attacks you for no reason and starts pounding your head against the concrete, then reaches for your gun and says "you're gonna die now." That's called assault and attempted murder. Zimmerman was heard by several people to be yelling "help, help." The gun was not his first choice.
But Zimmerman had a big part in it and should at least be charged with manslaughter.A big part? He was going to check a street sign for the police.
Allowing every idiot to walk around with a gun increases the likeliness of dead people resulting from conflicts.And if they didn't allow people to carry, the wrong person would be dead.
So a guy playing police chased an unarmed teenager who did nothing wrong without any reason and then shot him during a fight (we don't know what happened exactly as far as I know). Yeh, seems legit. :rolleyes: I am not saying that he had a racist motivation, but the death of Trayvon Martin was avoidable and completly unnecessary. He should go to jail for it in my opinion.Playing police? Chased? You're completely misinformed. First, he wasn't playing police. Indeed, he had turned down an offer from local PD to get police look-a-like gear and title. You call attempted murder "nothing wrong"? The death of Trayvon Martin was indeed avoidable - if he didn't attack an innocent guy, he'd be alive.
Nobody will ever know for sure if he was justified. He should not have been following some kid through the housing complex and automatically assume he was a criminalHe didn't follow anyone and he didn't automatically assume anyone was a criminal.
I find it hilarious how people have such strong opinions about this and speak in absolute tones when they clearly don't know half the facts.
And you were there and have absolute certainty of what happened, right?No, but I know all the facts. Some people seem to have a very curious concept of evidence. "Well, since we can't know what happened, clearly Zimmerman is in the wrong here." That isn't how it works. What we do know for a fact has all been just as Zimmerman said. Therefore it's more probable that the rest is correct as well, and he was found not guilty. To claim that he was in the wrong and did something that there is absolutely no evidence for, the burden of proof is on you.
What? It's not called a fistfight when someone attacks you for no reason and starts pounding your head against the concrete, then reaches for your gun and says "you're gonna die now." That's called assault and attempted murder. Zimmerman was heard by several people to be yelling "help, help." The gun was not his first choice.
Playing police? Chased? You're completely misinformed. First, he wasn't playing police. Indeed, he had turned down an offer from local PD to get police look-a-like gear and title. You call attempted murder "nothing wrong"? The death of Trayvon Martin was indeed avoidable - if he didn't attack an innocent guy, he'd be alive.
He didn't follow anyone and he didn't automatically assume anyone was a criminal.
I find it hilarious how people have such strong opinions about this and speak in absolute tones when they clearly don't know half the facts.
On the evening of February 26, 2012, Zimmerman observed Martin as he returned to the Twin Lakes housing community after having walked to a nearby convenience store.[58] At the time, Zimmerman was driving through the neighborhood on a personal errand.[59]
At approximately 7:09 PM,[Note 5] Zimmerman called the Sanford police non-emergency number to report what he considered a suspicious person in the Twin Lakes community.[61] Zimmerman stated, "We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy."[3] He described an unknown male "just walking around looking about" in the rain and said, "This guy looks like he is up to no good or he is on drugs or something."[62] Zimmerman reported that the person had his hand in his waistband and was walking around looking at homes.[63] On the recording, Zimmerman is heard saying, "these assholes, they always get away."[64][65]
About two minutes into the call, Zimmerman said, "he's running".[17] The dispatcher asked, "He's running? Which way is he running?"[66] Noises on the tape at this point have been interpreted by some media outlets as the sound of a car door chime, possibly indicating Zimmerman opened his car door.[67] Zimmerman followed Martin, eventually losing sight of him.[17] The dispatcher asked Zimmerman if he was following him. When Zimmerman answered, "yeah", the dispatcher said, "We don't need you to do that." Zimmerman responded, "Okay."[68] Zimmerman asked that police call him upon their arrival so he could provide his location.[17] Zimmerman ended the call at 7:15 p.m.[17]
After Zimmerman ended his call with police, a violent encounter took place between Martin and Zimmerman, which ended when Zimmerman fatally shot Martin 70 yards (64 m) from the rear door of the townhouse where Martin was staying.[69][Note 6]
The only eyewitness to the end of the confrontation stated that Martin was on top of Zimmerman and punching him, while Zimmerman was yelling for help. This witness, who identified himself as "John", stated that "the guy on the bottom, who had a red sweater on, was yelling to me, 'Help! Help!' and I told him to stop, and I was calling 911".[116] He went on to say that when he got upstairs and looked down, "the guy who was on the top beating up the other guy, was the one laying in the grass, and I believe he was dead at that point."[116][117][118]
During the months leading up to the February 26, 2012 shooting, Zimmerman called the police several times to report people he believed to be suspicious. On each of the calls, Zimmerman waited until he was asked by the dispatcher to provide a description of their race, and then reported that the people were black males.[55][56][57][Note 4]
And if they didn't allow people to carry, the wrong person would be dead.
Zimmerman chased him because in his opinion Martin (a black teenager wearing a "hoodie") looked suspicious. He called the police and even they told him not to follow Martin. Zimmerman wasn't a police officer. A neighborhood watch isn't a part of the executive, so he had no legal base to chase him. He was just an ordinary civilian with a gun chasing an innocenct teenager, that's all.Zimmerman didn't chase anyone. He followed Martin briefly to keep the police up-to-date on where Martin was. He stopped following him when the dispatcher told him to stop.
You are the one who is making up "facts". We neither know why there was a fight nor what happened exactly. Claiming that Martin attempted to murder Zimmerman (why would he do this?) is just an assertion based on no reliable evidence. That's just what Zimmerman said to legitimate the killing of Trayvon Martin. There were no direct eyewitnesses for the whole incident (only a guy who reported a normal fist fight, not an "attempted murder") so this can hardly be a fact.If Zimmerman had the intention of killing Martin, it's very unlikely it'd have gotten to the point where Martin was pummeling his head against the concrete. Martin would have been shot from a distance. Zimmerman was shouting for help, which points towards the fact that he wasn't the aggressor.
"On each of the calls, Zimmerman waited until he was asked by the dispatcher to provide a description of their race, and then reported that the people were black males"
And yes, Martin deserved to die.
Welcome to the Smoothrich drawer.Welcome to the retard drawer.
And yes, Martin deserved to die.
Welcome to the Smoothrich drawer.
Welcome to the retard drawer.
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Why did he "keep the police up-to-date"? Did Martin commit any crime or did the police tell him to do so? No. He only did it because Martin was looking suspicious in his eyes. Martin did nothing to justify such an observation.Uh, because he wanted the police to know where Martin was when they arrived? His neighborhood had had break ins before. Telling the police where someone is isn't against the law. Observation is not against the law either.
I never said that Zimmerman had the intention to murder Martin. He just overreacted and shot him during a fist fight, which only occurred at all because he had followed Martin before.He did not overreact if his story is right. He would have been the one killed if he hadn't shot Martin. Following someone is not against the law.
I which way do my quotes support your arguments? I never denied that Martin might have been the one who has started the fist fight. We simply don't know what happened exactly. It is still a fact that an unarmed teenager who did nothing wrong before was shot by a man who had followed/chased him only because he looked "suspicious".Your quotes only strengthen Zimmerman's story and do nothing to discredit him. Martin had in fact done "something wrong before", but that's not relevant one way or the other. What he did then and there is what matter, nothing else. And it seems probable that he did try try to kill Zimmerman, pounding his head against the concrete and allegedly going for Z's gun and saying "you gonna die now." Again, following someone briefly is not against the law or wrong in any way.
I have quoted the last part to show that only black males seemed to be suspicious for Zimmerman, which is important for this case and might be a hint for a racist motivation (for the observation, not for the shooting).That is not what the quoted part says. The quoted part says that he only started talking about race after asked about it. Also, being more suspicious of black males only makes sense. Unless you're claiming young black males aren't over-represented in crime statistics?
No you.
Seems like you have a serious problem with facts and just interpret them how you want.
And here you show again that you are just a more eloquent version of DKG_Dragon. Why did Trayvor Martin deserve to die? Because of a quite harmless fist fight or just because he is black? The circumstance that you were already denying the holocaust in another thread lets me asume the latter...You're a less eloquent version of DKG_Dragon. Martin deserved to die because he tried to kill an innocent man.
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Uh, because he wanted the police to know where Martin was when they arrived? His neighborhood had had break ins before. Telling the police where someone is isn't against the law. Observation is not against the law either.
He did not overreact if his story is right. He would have been the one killed if he hadn't shot Martin.
And it seems probable that he did try try to kill Zimmerman, pounding his head against the concrete and allegedly going for Z's gun and saying "you gonna die now." Again, following someone briefly is not against the law or wrong in any way.
Your quotes only strengthen Zimmerman's story and do nothing to discredit him. Martin had in fact done "something wrong before", but that's not relevant one way or the other. What he did then and there is what matter, nothing else.
That is not what the quoted part says. The quoted part says that he only started talking about race after asked about it. Also, being more suspicious of black males only makes sense. Unless you're claiming young black males aren't over-represented in crime statistics?
Martin deserved to die because he tried to kill an innocent man.
The question remains: why was he observing him at all? What did Martin do to justify this?Observing is still not against the law. You don't need justification to observe someone. Martin was a black guy who didn't live in the neighborhood walking around leisurely, they'd had break ins in the past, Zimmerman was in the neighborhood watch whose job it is to, here's the kicker, watch.
If his story is right. There were no eyewitnesses. Personally I highly doubt that. Why would Martin try to kill him? As far as I know he was a normal teenager without any previous convictions. Of course Zimmerman is claiming that it was self-defence. Otherwise he would go to jail. It is not even clear that Martin started the fight.If his story is right indeed. I don't claim to be 100% sure, only that it's more probable Zimmerman's account of the events is true or at least close to true. And yes, there was an eyewitness. You even quoted his story with your Wiki copypaste. I don't know why Martin would try to kill him, why would Martin attack in the first place? Same reason probably.
Again, what has Martin done before? He bought something at a store and called a friend. Not very suspicious if you ask me... Again you are not able to provide any facts that support your version.http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/07/trayvon-martins-involvement-in-local-burglaries-covered-up-by-media-school-police-prosecutors.html
It is possible that young black males in this area are overrepresented in the crime statistics. I am pretty sure though that they are not responsible for 100% of the crimes. All of Zimmerman's calls seemed to be about black males.And I'm pretty sure that Zimmerman didn't call the police about 100% of the black people he saw. BTW, Zimmerman's great grandfather is black and Zimmerman himself is a latino.
Martin died because an idiot was playing police and used a gun in a fist fight.Martin died because a smart guy was handling shit in his neighborhood instead of sitting inside and complaining and then used his gun to defend his life when assaulted.
Observing is still not against the law. You don't need justification to observe someone. Martin was a black guy who didn't live in the neighborhood walking around leisurely, they'd had break ins in the past, Zimmerman was in the neighborhood watch whose job it is to, here's the kicker, watch.
If his story is right indeed. I don't claim to be 100% sure, only that it's more probable Zimmerman's account of the events is true or at least close to true.
And yes, there was an eyewitness. You even quoted his story with your Wiki copypaste.
I don't know why Martin would try to kill him, why would Martin attack in the first place? Same reason probably.
And I'm pretty sure that Zimmerman didn't call the police about 100% of the black people he saw.
BTW, Zimmerman's great grandfather is black and Zimmerman himself is a latino.
Martin died because a smart guy was handling shit in his neighborhood instead of sitting inside and complaining and then used his gun to defend his life when assaulted.
So the observation was justified because Martin was black and black people break into houses? You are right, the observation wasn't against the law. It was still completly unjustified.Must be the first time I hear anyone call observation "unjustified", like it's a no-knock search warrant or something.
And why exactly is his account more likely to be true?
There was an eyewitness, but he only saw a small part of the incident. He neither saw how it started, who began to fight nor how Martin was shot.No, but he saw Zimmerman in a very bad position taking a beating, and also describes the events that he saw exactly how Zimmerman told how it went.
Who said that Martin started the fight? That's Zimmerman's version. If somebody would chase me I would also confront him and ask for his reasons.Zimmerman started shouting for help. Not usually the behavior of the aggressor.
Of course not, but 100% of his 50 (!) calls were about black males.And this is 100% bullshit. It's 46 calls and no, not nearly all of them were about black males.. unless women of unidentified race are black males, pit bulls are black males, white men are black males, hispanic males are black males, loud music is black males, open garage doors are black males, etc etc etc.
Shooting unarmed teenagers is neither "handling shit" nor smart in my book. Especially since somebody had already called the police.So you can't kill someone if you're unarmed?
Neither of you will convince the other of your arguments.Since when that's the point of internet debates?
Too bad that on one side we have a couple of internet nerds and on the other we have Xant and the justice system of the US.
Too bad that on one side we have a couple of internet nerds and on the other we have Xant and the justice system of the US.
no u
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Must be the first time I hear anyone call observation "unjustified", like it's a no-knock search warrant or something.
Because of the eye witness account, the calls for help, Zimmerman's past behavior, Zimmerman's recounting of the event, Zimmerman's wounds, etc.
No, but he saw Zimmerman in a very bad position taking a beating, and also describes the events that he saw exactly how Zimmerman told how it went.
Zimmerman started shouting for help. Not usually the behavior of the aggressor.
And this is 100% bullshit. It's 46 calls and no, not nearly all of them were about black males.. unless women of unidentified race are black males, pit bulls are black males, white men are black males, hispanic males are black males, loud music is black males, open garage doors are black males, etc etc etc.
So you can't kill someone if you're unarmed?
So you wouldn't be annoyed if somebody follows you without any reason and even calls the police?If somebody followed me I'd find out why. If they called the police, I wouldn't care...
Martin might have started the fight (we don't know, but it is possible, so I am not saying that you are wrong on this), but Zimmerman still provoked it with his previous behaviour and then shot an unarmed teenager. Yes he had some grazes but there was hardly a real danger for his life. Shouting for help doesn't proof that he wasn't the agressor (independently in which form), it just shows that he was losing the fight.Provoked, maybe. Would it have happened if Zimmerman hadn't made the call and been interested in Martin? Nope. Was Zimmerman wrong to do so? Nope. Martin being unarmed doesn't really have anything to do with this. Especially if he really did go for Zimmerman's gun. You keep saying we can't know what happened, yet you never acknowledge the uncertainty in the other direction. Shouting for help doesn't prove anything, no, but it's more likely for someone to shout for help if they aren't the aggressor.
Too bad that on one side we have a couple of internet nerds and on the other we have Xant and the justice system of the US.
Of which you know fuck all about.Based on your extensive experience of me and my knowledge.
Between March 19 and 27, 2012, the NBC Nightly News, NBC's Today show, and NBC's network-owned Miami affiliate WTVJ[368] ran segments which misleadingly merged parts of Zimmerman's call
I live in the same state. Xant's facts are correct. Zimmerman was assaulted on his way back to his car, and Trayvon's cell phone logs are recorded as him stating he's going to get the guy following him.
Of course, no one's mentioned the 2 previous break ins that neighborhood had. That's why all of this went down the way it did. Several robberies had happened already, thus the local watch was on a much higher alert for less than savory suspects. Zimmerman happened to see one and called police like he should.
But, like all punks/teenagers, Trayvon wasn't going to let some dude follow him and confronted Zimmerman. Fight results, Trayvon dies. Then the media and bullshit takes hold and it goes from simple court case to "CIVIL RIGHTS ABUSE! KILL THE KKK BASTARD!" For Example:
SO, yea. I'm embittered about the whole thing. I've watched all the news that you shits DON"T get cause it's local news and not covered by national media sources and what I saw there was far better coverage than that biased shit you get on national media. Trust me, that case was spun all the way to hell to make everyone believe he was guilty from the start and to try and influence whatever it could.
Oh and just a FYI: 12 BLACK WOMEN, found him innocent. Sure race shouldn't matter, but that shows that an IMPARTIAL decision was reached.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin
We don't know for certain whether he straight-up murdered a kid in cold blood, or if he manslaughtered a kid after disregarding 911 dispatchers and following him for doing nothing wrong. What we do know is that he's worth defending in order to stick it to the libs.
See, no one in this thread actually supports George Zimmerman, they just support the notion that it should be legal to shoot people dead should you bite off more that you can chew in some completely avoidable altercation. It is just that simple
I have said it before, and I will say it again, if you are armed and you take steps to instigate or escalate a situation into physical confrontation you are an idiot. If that confrontation then results in you having to shoot and kill someone then you are guilty of manslaughter at the very least. A good gun carrier will walk away, even when he, his wife, his son or daughter, or anyone else he loves is verbally insulted and abused, and he certainly won't follow someone in a way that could lead to a physical confrontation just for wearing a hoodie in the 'burbs.
Sometimes domestic violence just happens
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Zimmerman seems like he's in full control of his emotions.