cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ecko on May 13, 2011, 01:25:55 am
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Hello everyone,
Most of you know, and if you don't, you do now about how much i hate posting and reading forums. But apparently there is a situation that calls for it.
My name is Ecko and I run most of all the popular NA servers with the exception of a 1 or 2 that are no longer around or empty most of the time.
For clarification I do not host the servers nor do i pay for it all. I specifically have managed:
Gathering donations, setting rules, bringing quality custom maps(there were none before NA) to c-rpg, timely patch updates to the servers, creating events, and enforcing a mostly enjoyable environment to all players when possible.
I do nothing alone, its been a learning curve, and i have a great team that helps.
Since September, maybe October, not quite sure, it has cost 200 dollars a month to keep the servers alive. Since late December, early January Hospitaller Devilize has paid 100 dollars a month to manage one of the 5 servers now up.
It has been in the past and recently questioned how I run the servers. Though many of you have had problems with admins, its a long standing joke amongst the admins that i give many chances to get unbanned for those who might have been misjudged. Admins are not paid individuals, and though mistakes might be made, its much easier to correct a game admin problem and teach them how to make better calls in the future, than to remove their admin all together and give another random a shot.
I dislike the fact the servers are called ATS servers, there are over 20 game admins, not including file moderators, and head admins that greatly outnumber ATS.
I've tried making these servers community servers.
However, since the servers are mostly priavetly funded by hospitaller and ATS, I've maintained the right to refuse use to any asshat. PLEASE NOTE: I have hardly used that power available, recently Hospitaller Devilize has allowed it to happen.
Until the community starts donating more, I will always maintain the right of a server owner refusing game play. No donations given via the c-rpg.net site are shared with NA, and i'm fine with that.
To be frank, I'm quite tired of getting admins accusing me of running a failed server, particularly those who may or may not be able to cause trouble for me.
I'm going to ask this once, would the NA community like the servers to be shut down? If yes you're welcome to go play on the EU servers like before, or wait for clans like Acre or SoA to get a server going. Although i can almost guarantee you're not gonna find a better team then mine...
Special Thanks to the Following for helping me run the NA servers:
chadz
Garguro
Airith
Gorath
Gash
Devilize
Peppovitch
Grey
Nindur
Goretooth
Wookimonster
Shik
CtrlAltDelete
Canary
Sphinx
Aldryk
Damatacus
Lorn(yes you did help)
Arowaine(AS if french Canadians do anything right?)
Depaul
451
Dexxtaa
Gaga(who knew, an LLJK admin!)
Panderson
Mr.Rogers
Heroin
Native
Dr.Pepper
Dan
Nebun
Sharky
and the many more admins or file moderators that i've overlooked, to many to count.
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So EU wants to take half of the mods populations out....
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Dumb question - of course we want the servers. Move on.
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No.
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Shut them all down. See you on the Chinese servers in July!
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Shut them all down. See you on the Chinese servers in July!
Maybe we should move Tunatown to China when you go? Sounds like no one will be playing in NA anymore.
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NO!
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Wow dude you act like you are the only one who wants to run a server... How about you give us the privilege kind sir to run a few more servers of our own... Honestly best quote I've ever heard, "No one gives a shit." Guess what? I say shut them down, because you are asking for a pity party. I make all of my own maps and I could run two servers of my own without money from others. You are taking the donation money and acting like a child. You have had your time now give it up cause tons of others are looking to open servers. Also I say let's play on other servers like TunaTown, or the Blackrose Server, maybe.... even the new LLJK server.
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Maybe we should move Tunatown to China when you go? Sounds like no one will be playing in NA anymore.
Yeah, i think you should. Chinese admins wont troll you and the servers are ridiculously cheap there.
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Wow dude you act like you are the only one who wants to run a server... How about you give us the privilege kind sir to run a few more servers of our own... Honestly best quote I've ever heard, "No one gives a shit." Guess what? I say shut them down, because you are asking for a pity party. I make all of my own maps and I could run two servers of my own without money from others. You are taking the donation money and acting like a child. You have had your time now give it up cause tons of others are looking to open servers. Also I say let's play on other servers like TunaTown, or the Blackrose Server, maybe.... even the new LLJK server.
I don't want a pity party...i want people to let me run the servers. I don't control who gets their chance to run a server and who doesn't.
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DRAMA!
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NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
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It has been in the past and recently questioned how I run the servers. Though many of you have had problems with admins, its a long standing joke amongst the admins that i give many chances to get unbanned for those who might have been misjudged. Admins are not paid individuals, and though mistakes might be made, its much easier to correct a game admin problem and teach them how to make better calls in the future, than to remove their admin all together and give another random a shot
I don't see any reason for people to not be given multiple chances or the ability to fight a ban. Because the admin system is as simple as it is, it's necessary that an admin's initial decision never becomes the final one. I think the "ATS"(excluding devilize's server) servers are ran exceptionally well and I would question anyone's ability to run them better, especially considering how many people play on the servers.
I should probably clarify that I still have issues with some things about the servers, but I have yet to see a pub, in any game, that was up to my standards.
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It's funny because , if the NA servers are so bad, why the new servers, managed by different people, are always empty ? If people were really sick of the administration of the NA servers, they'd be playing on Acre or SoA server ...
Guess what , most of the servers starting in the afternoon are always 50+ more people , and in the evening have password because it's too crowded ...
Do you donate ? Oh so you're playing for free ... so you just complain .. way to go to help the community in any ways
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Ya I know you don't control it, but you take advantage of the fact that you have the most servers... and then you make bullshit forum threads like this one crying about how you "might" shut down the server.... stop fucking around and just do it already.
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Ignore anything ecko says on the forums, I am the official voice of ATS on the forums, endoresed by dominus.
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Of course people don't want to see a server go away, one that is already stable and has a lot of people joining, but I have a hard time understand what you are trying to get at. The only reason for a possible removal is because people think admins abuse their powers? otherwise, you say you get donations, so really, I have no clue what the problem is.
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nahhh guys, - please keep them running, wtf.
I know how expensive and time consuming it can be to run a server, and how annoying a whining community can be.
But it would be a pity if the NA servers went down. Community is much more enjoyable there, and I have a slightly less shitty ping on NA... lol
One suggestion (at least I did not find anything specific on the forums):
would be interesting how/where exactly those servers are hosted. One of the constant complaints has been a noticeable server side lag that happens a lot on NA siege - seems like either the server itself or its internet connection are close to their limit...
If we know what the issues are and how they could be improved, I'm sure there would be a lot of folks willing to chip in a few bucks per month to get those servers flying....
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I don't see any reason for people to not be given multiple chances or the ability to fight a ban. Because the admin system is as simple as it is, it's necessary that an admin's initial decision never becomes the final one. I think the "ATS"(excluding devilize's server) servers are ran exceptionally well and I would question anyone's ability to run them better, especially considering how many people play on the servers.
People don't know but most of the bans, are always backed up by a different admin. Now with the nice Admin Chat, you can't know what's going on behind the scene but we often consult each other and rarely an important ban isn't discussed afterwards.
If you,re banned in EU , you can't play ANY EU servers, while if you get banned in NA, you still have other options if you wanna still play on a server with less than 100 ping. People are lucky and don't realize it
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dont shut down
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Though there seem to be new servers popping up every day, like ours, I would say no.
The more the merrier. The NA community seems to be growing, so why stifle it with a limited selection.
And nobody wants to play with a big ping, EU and NA players alike.
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Ecko your a legit admin!! keep them up!
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Nindur you need to take control of this situation, this dude is a joke and he is just looking for sympathy.
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this is very confusing topic.
Siege does a pretty good job of keeping griefers inline, its ALWAYS the highest pop. Why would anyone want it shut down?
I havent co-located a server in many many years but $200 sounds pretty outrageous. You could have built your own $1k server and just pay for bandwidth only and it would have paid for it self in 5 months.
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Modified.s
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Ya I know you don't control it, but you take advantage of the fact that you have the most servers... and then you make bullshit forum threads like this one crying about how you "might" shut down the server.... stop fucking around and just do it already.
Is that your wife in your photo right there? She's hot.
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EVERY SERVER should have 2 admins FROM EACH MAJOR CLAN and thats it
thats my opinion
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haha ya thats my wife
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You will always have issues with people complaining about admins, even with the best admins in the world. The people on the servers doing wrong are the ones to complain most.
Do not let the whole NA community suffer because of that. You are doing a great job at managing the servers and I am sure if need be, the community will help out.
Let me know if money is an issue and I do what I can.
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NO!
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and I'm not saying that I don't like the servers... I've played on them before, but why the hell do you need to post about when you have a mood swing? Just deal with your emotions cause it's the internet.
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I havent co-located a server in many many years but $200 sounds pretty outrageous.
Indeed. Bit more transparency = less speculation + more willingness to help/donate
With the frequent disconnects and lag spikes it does not seem they are sitting in a high class datacenter right now.
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Is that your wife in your photo right there? She's hot.
lol'd
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Indeed. Bit more transparency = less speculation + more willingness to help/donate
With the frequent disconnects and lag spikes it does not seem they are sitting in a high class datacenter right now.
The lag isn't coming from me, it came from the resent patches
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The lag isn't coming from me, it came from the resent patches
Been stating this for a while now, finally glad to see a server owner claiming this as well.
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Been stating this for a while now, finally glad to see a server owner claiming this as well.
I thought this was long known the lag is everywhere for me.
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As much as I troll, I do appreciate the fact that someone(or some people) out there are taking the time and money to run the NA servers for everyone. So thank you for that.
And in my personal experience, Ecko has been one of the few people who is willing to listen to all parties involved in whatever situation before taking any actions-- so if he's to the point of shutting down the servers then I can respect that. I've also never had a true complaint/concern without being given a chance to make my case with any admin, really. I would say that 90% of the time, if you're banned/kicked/muted you deserved it. The other ten is split between miscommunication and "admin aboooze." But really in the end it's a game, so who gives a shit?
Sad to see them go though, if that's what it comes to.
Just the same, a little server mix-up won't change anything. People are always going to whine about being "unjustly" banned or about admin abuse and people are always going to be stingy about donations. That's just how it is. So best wishes to all of you working on starting up your own servers, just expect the moans regardless.
Dispite any opinion you might have about the servers or how they are handled (now or ever), you have no right to be whining about a decision to shut them down. It was free for you to play. We would be losing something we didn't even earn(or appreciate in a lot of cases) to begin with.
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The lag isn't coming from me, it came from the resent patches
strange. I noticed quite often that I have almost 100 ping more on EU servers, but less lag - so it seems to be server specific.
And it gets worse on NA whenever more than about 40 people are on, so I assumed its most likely a server side problem.
Well, whatever, I guess this is not the main issue in this thread.
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If money is possibly an issue, maybe take out the smaller battle server? They're other servers which can fill that niche but not the 100 man or seige one. Can't speak on admin aboose as I've only just started playing again.
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i never had any problems on Na server , and i been playing a long time. someone must be doing something right eh ?
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Keep running NA servers so most of the bad players stay there and don't come on EU servers.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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It's funny because , if the NA servers are so bad, why the new servers, managed by different people, are always empty ? If people were really sick of the administration of the NA servers, they'd be playing on Acre or SoA server ...
Our server is now a training server for... well.. many reasons...
We had people there when it was up, eh.
Anyway, back on topic: I honestly like the playerbase of the NA... as trolly as some of them are. It's a nice community and NA would surely fall if the ATS- I mean NA servers were to fall (^^).
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It's easy to point finger or say "I would do better" .. and usually the best way to prove them wrong is to let them try and see how hard it can be and what a load of work it is...
We're dealing here with a community of players that have been playing on these servers for a while, and I think the risk is too big to let "these guys" give it a shot. We have a working formula, why bother changing it ?
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Special Thanks to the Following for helping me run the NA servers:
...
...
Canary
...
This seems to imply that I've had admin on those servers in the past, which I didn't... unless I've helped without having been admin, which I have tried to do.
In any case, all the complaint about the way things are run is more than common, especially in the case of today's jaded player-of-video-games. Being spoiled so often will make people very vocal about things they dislike whether or not they have a truly serious problem with something. You're in the poor position of providing something which they don't have any stake in, and they have a false sense of entitlement about how they get to play.
About having a clan run a server, I fail to see how that's problematic. Assume for a second that one community of people runs a server exclusively, that is, nobody outside the clan gets a position as admin: Obviously they might be more lenient to people who're part of their community, but does that necessarily mean that they'll treat people outside their clan with any more scrutiny or prejudice? The fact that they're already a solid, established community means that they'd have open communication with one another and be able to deal with problems faster than might otherwise be possible.
BUT - This isn't even the case on the NA servers! (the proper ones.) There are admins from all over the NA community as a whole! Any prejudice isn't universal, and there are channels to appeal the harshest punishment that the admins can even hand out.
Anyone complaining about having too many admins on NA, as well, assumes that "more admins = more kicks/bans" is necessarily a bad thing as well, when in fact more admins just means it's that much harder to break the rules, when breaking the rules is what is truly detrimental to the community. The rules aren't there to eliminate fun, and in fact I don't think there's a single rule established that a reasonable person could disagree with currently in place. People looking for lenience in the draconian application of the rules shouldn't try to condemn the admins in the process of softening their banhammers' blow.
blah blah et cetera, I dunno. I just don't understand how this has become such a serious issue. I'd suffer without the official two (and strat) NA servers.
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Who said you had a fail server? I don't think it's fail...
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if we hated your server then we just wouldnt play on it.
Not like you have a total monopoly on battle servers
I play almost exclusively on the 80 and 100 man and would cry to see them go
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I am slightly biased obviously, but I think the servers have been pretty damn well administrated in the past few months. There are tons of new admins from multiple clans to remove the perception that they are "ATS" servers.
Admins have been pretty level-headed and good at using the mute function and temp ban as opposed to a harsher perma-ban. Unfortunately, Ecko felt it necessary to make this post because of the rotten apples that have been banned who whine on the forums.
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I don't understand what the problem is that lead to this thread. Is Ecko getting flak from the admins/devs for giving players they banned more chances or getting flak from the players for poor admins?
Isn't complaining about admins normal? People always want to bitch about anyone that has to enforce rules whether its a cop, umpire, admin, or dad. Its hardly isolated to warband crpg.
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Are the servers back up? I want to play...
EDIT: They are.
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Well, I think the servers are quite nice at the moment. I've been playing on them almost as much as when I was an admin before I quit for a month or so, and haven't run into nearly as much rulebreaking or craziness as before.
I've run some game servers in the past, but they were smaller and less whiny than this community; even then it was difficult to remain committed to them. In any case, I personally hope you continue.
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fyi this thread was made because the bundle of sticks commie euro admins think we aren't doing our job right
no joke
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Let admins administer. What the NA admins do is of no concern to the EU admins.
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Apparently it's of little concern.
Regardless, though, the NA servers are good servers. I imagine C-rpg's player base might actually have started to wane without them, as they are A grade servers.
If funding the server isn't a problem then certainly keep on trucking.
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ATS be ballin' funds aint a thing homie
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Yea, though all donations can be sent to [email protected] via paypal...this thread is not about donations.
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Ecko is a cool dude who has to put up with a lot of terrible shit constantly and does a pretty good job of not snapping and killing a dog.
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haha ya thats my wife
did you knock her up or marry her out of highschool? she is hot and your goofy as fuck looking
either way good work
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I'm really not understanding why you made this thread. You can easily deduce that people want the NA "ATS" server around judging by the fact that it is the
...most... popular NA server..
It's pretty clear that you are just trying to argue that your admin team isn't as bad as people seem to think. Instead of trying to argue this point to a bunch of 16 year old autists who can't read or comprehend anything anyway, why not do something more constructive in order to gain the community's respect and confidence in the admin team?
For one thing, I can tell that the community seems to think that your admins are impulsive and do whatever they think is right, even if it's wrong. That isn't a respectable way to run a public server. Make a public set of rules that applies to the admins in regard to the scope of their power. You need to set a limit on what they can and cannot do and the community needs to know exactly what that is. Make it specific as to what an admin can ban for, and what they can't This way the community can do a better job policing admins as they could point out exactly what they are doing wrong with a set of rules to reference. This would also help to stop weightless claims against admins that are indeed doing the right thing.
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Yea, though all donations can be sent to [email protected] via paypal...this thread is not about donations.
man that's some bullshit, don't shut down the servers, the administration on US is good, and I've played on both EU and US the real problem on any given server is that u don't get lucky enough to have a admin all the time, but hell most of on US at least you'll usually have an admin which is a good thing
I think like anything there's personality politics that go on US pretty heavy, this whole undercurrent..whispers of US admin abuse thing that's basically behind ecko's original post is more trumped up than actually true(in my warped perception of course, Ecko don't talk to me)......does not really exist, I've not seen it and I've had arguments with admins its just if u fuck with a server admin in any game, come on wtf are u
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Let admins administer. What the NA admins do is of no concern to the EU admins.
but our european overlords know whats best for us despite not giving a real shit about anything over here
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Wait so what's the problem now?
You all do realize I'm eating a wrap right now? Do you know what's inside it, what it's meat and cheeses are, specifically? Christ, if you people only knew... God dammit I can't deal with this kind of shit.
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Right, so, I don't ban people or allow people to be ban for simply being in the server, everyone is free to play till they screw up. If you were banned as an individual or as a group it was far more then likely justified.
It's a simple system, if you were ban go to the unban section and request the reasoning and the duration of the ban, if you got reason to believe that the ban was unjust then state your case. As far as I've seen this system works and for a long time now I've yet to see any, truly, unjust bans.
People are going to whine till the end of time and then after. When you as an individual read about something horrid that the admins have done please consider that there are always two sides to a coin. Don't jump to conclusions simply because they make a convincing argument - It's meant to be convincing because its simply designed to support their whine. After all, if you weren't there you don't know, better to keep your nose out of it.
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who the fuck, why the fuck, where the fuck, how the fuck..
I Abuse the Admin all the time on the NA servers, granted its just fun name calling
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Wonder how many of the people who voted "Yes" to shut the servers down are EU players.
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shut down the severs :|
Keep the Na severs :mrgreen:
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Ya I know you don't control it, but you take advantage of the fact that you have the most servers... and then you make bullshit forum threads like this one crying about how you "might" shut down the server.... stop fucking around and just do it already.
Hey asshole, stop being an asshole? ok?
and ecko you forgot about me :(
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fyi this thread was made because the bundle of sticks commie euro admins think we aren't doing our job right
no joke
ya cuz he is always playing with us right :rolleyes:
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http://206.217.141.50/status
NA server status link.
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If this is a money issue, I wouldn't mind donating a little bit to help keep them up.
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If NA servers go, the majority of cRPG goes I am afraid..
All that work and waiting on strategus done for nothing! :( ... :cry:
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voted no
I'm from EU but have more fun playing with you yankees
God Bless America
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but our european overlords know whats best for us despite not giving a real shit about anything over here
Once again America lives in the shadow of its European overlords...
I think its time for a war of independence!
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REVOLUTION!
AYAYYYAYYAYAYAYAAAYY!
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I dont understand this thread. Ive read through the conversations on IRC that Ecko had with both normal users and EU admins, and No one have been suggesting to take down the ATS server network.
Ecko, please stop making unnecessary drama just because some people questions why LLJKs was collectively banned.
To quote Nindur "Like I said previously it came directly from the top to remove LLJK in its entirety from the 100 Hospitallar server."
This point of view is still standing, as no one have disagreed with it, not users, not LLJK and not other admins. Some people, lots of NA people, some EU people, have pointed out that a collective ban is wrong, and that is all.
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but our european overlords know whats best for us despite not giving a real shit about anything over here
WE ARE.... SUPERIOR !
Wait, never mind. I live in the US now. :shock:
USA, USA ! :wink:
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have pointed out that a collective ban is wrong
Is that what all this is about? Well shit.
Normally a collective ban is pretty far out there, but this is lljk - aka the goons - aka it's like collectively banning all known necrophiles from your cemetery. If anything the problem should be that this collective banning of the goons hasn't gone across all the NA servers yet.
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Just to relax this whole thing no one will have to play on EU servers even if Ecko decides to shut the NA ones down.
Soon there will be an announcement where everyone can check for rules and requirements to run their own server and how to get connected to the DB.
Most clans and maybe even single individuals who can put up a server with a team of admins and uphold the rules we set will get the chance to have their server.
So everyone can choose where to play without having huge drama surrounding specific admins and stuff.
This is still being worked on but at no point will you NA guys run out of places to play on.
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I would not hesitate to argue that the EU community has a higher maturity level than NA to be honest.
I don't think the EU community understands what NA has to deal with in terms of generalized trolling from LLJK.
We'll send 25 of them over to your servers for 5 months and see how you react after being patient, tolerant, and overall "too nice" to a bunch of trolls who make it their goal to feed of the QQ of those who come on to enjoy this mod.
The mass-banning was an unfortunate, but completely understandable reaction to the Bullshit that Peppovitch, Devilize and the Hospitalers had to deal with on their server. Their antics are hardly forgotten and they tend to accumulate.
LLJK was gone from our servers for 2 or 3 months and everything was fine. People were having a great time. Then LLJK comes along after the patch and it takes them one week to make the most patient administrator crack.
Nuffen, no offense, but you really have no idea what we have endured with this crew. A few of them are cool, including Gaga, but he himself admits that he can't control his own guys - and if he told them to stop, they would just continue and do it worse... So again, don't come tell us what's wrong or not with mass-banning when you don't actually have to deal with it yourself. There was a talk between the leaders of both parties afterwards, organized by Ecko, and the issue was dealt with. But a message had to be sent, and it was. Most of these LLJK I am sure will be getting unbanned individually. That's up to Devilize to decide and he's already gone forth to say that ban appeals will be reviewed. In the meantime, Bordertown was opened for LLJK members to play on without annoying the rest of the community. It is under supervision and should have been used by EU Admins as an experimental platform to judge how Gaga and his admin team would handle their servers if ever given the right to connect them to the database.
It's a shame it has to come down to this, but I think Ecko's poll demonstrates that overall the diversified (multiple admins from multiple clans and independent players) Admin team we have for the NA servers is doing a good job. Exploiting has never been permitted on these servers. Cheaters have been caught and dealt with. Racism is not tolerated. Regular players can come enjoy the game.
So please let us deal with our affairs, as the silent majority of folks who support this NA part of CRPG overshadows any whiners that speak loader than they do. In the end, everybody gets a second chance (sometimes a lot more) so there's really nothing that should push EU administrators to unwarrantably disconnect servers from the database - especially not from an experienced team that has worked hard to keep everything in line and contribute to the community. In that department we can also thank Airith/Solonar for his great maintenance of the NA servers and the Scenery part of CRPG which he has been made admin of.
Thank you
-Gash
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I see.
We got loads of LLJKs visiting. All of em because they are banned from ATS servers. They dont cause any problems, makes me wonder, really.
Anyway, you're defending collective punishment. What if we, EU admins, started to ban all NA users, just because we got problems with some? Would you feel that that was ok?
Im actually very chocked, that you can defend collective punishment. And this shows that YOU cant handle your own affairs. I just hope that the other NA and ATS guys can, because you, Gash, have given me doubt.
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I see.
We got loads of LLJKs visiting. All of em because they are banned from ATS servers. They dont cause any problems, makes me wonder, really.
Anyway, you're defending collective punishment. What if we, EU admins, started to ban all NA users, just because we got problems with some? Would you feel that that was ok?
Im actually very chocked, that you can defend collective punishment. And this shows that YOU cant handle your own affairs. I just hope that the other NA and ATS guys can, because you, Gash, have given me doubt.
Theres a difference between randoms and a group of people Nuffen, and of course not all are bad, but when the ok people do not make it a point so weed out the assholes, there is only one solution
and of course they are going to play nice on the EU servers,
Where else are they going to bloody go after EU? China?
and now what I thought were facts are not, Devilize did not order the large banning aparently, I am confused now
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No, banning one guy because what another guy with the same clantag did, is random. Im still shocked that you defend collective punishment. It would be like if I started to ban ALL NA members from EU servers because of what you said, or if I started to ban all jews, or native americans or... get where Im going ye?
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Well the good thing is not all were banned, though I am unsure whether they will be banned if they enter the server,
plus its only one of the battle servers, they can go to 80 but I suppose they are afraid
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I see.
We got loads of LLJKs visiting. All of em because they are banned from ATS servers. They dont cause any problems, makes me wonder, really.
Anyway, you're defending collective punishment. What if we, EU admins, started to ban all NA users, just because we got problems with some? Would you feel that that was ok?
Im actually very chocked, that you can defend collective punishment. And this shows that YOU cant handle your own affairs. I just hope that the other NA and ATS guys can, because you, Gash, have given me doubt.
Nuffen, please don't doubt my ability to make the difference. You're argument is rather poor.
Of course they won't cause problems on EU - and how long have they been there?
I am against collective punishment as I don't believe that one player can represent an entire clan. There are always bad apples in the basket. The big difference being that most responsible clans and leaders weed out the undesirables and maintain some sort of code of conduct and/or discipline for their members. LLJK does not and thus cannot be treated on the same level. As I stated, their leader (Lady_Gaga) who I can respect for coming on our ventrilo and hammering out situations admits himself he cannot control them and if he tried - they would surely make it worst...
I did not call for the collective punishment. But I can understand why it was done. I understand that admins are humans with a certain level of tolerance and threshold. Once that level has been pushed enough times, things like these can happen. At the end of the day, there's only one group responsible for pushing that limit. If it were just one or two - it would be a different story. But this is a group of trollish individuals who feed off tears and QQ. By themselves they are fine, once in a pack- it sometimes goes a bit too out of control.
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Hey Gash, Im glad we share the point of view, we dont like collective punishment. I can also understand why it happens, but we dont support it :)
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Hey Gash, Im glad we share the point of view, we don't like collective punishment. I can also understand why it happens, but we dont support it :)
I can respect the fact that you don't support it.
*edited*
This issue took place between NA, was addressed that same night by both NA parties, and will be resolved by us as well over time.
We've understood the CRPG developer and administrator message. This was a first in almost a year of server-managing - and I sincerely believe will not re-occur at any other time as the greater majority of NA clans are responsible in their management.
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Gash I think the EU is experiencing this as well, It is a bug i believe
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The mass-banning was an unfortunate, but completely understandable reaction to the Bullshit that Peppovitch, Devilize and the Hospitalers had to deal with on their server.
Yeah, no. You weren't there so stop letting your hate cloud your judgement. I voted No because Ecko and the majority of the admins to a good job. I have only had issues with the way two admins did their job. The rest do a seemingly fine job.
You want to complain about the bullshit you put up with? We have watch both ATS and Hospitalers, admins and members, only enforce stalling rules when it benefits them. Want to hole up in a tower to prevent 10+ cavalry slaughtering your team? Stalling. Want to be a Horse Archer and actively kill enemy players even though you are the only one left? Nope, stalling and get kicked off the server. ATS Admin hides in a corner and refuses to come out? Nope you are stalling, not him. So quit crying, both sides engaged in trolling and trash talking as the logs clearly show.
This is the third time I will say this...and I direct this at the previous poster.......The 100 Slot NA server is INDEPENDENT From ATS! Some ATS members are admins there but it is NOT an ATS server. If the owner of the 100 man Hospitallar server TELLS an admin to do something, either the admin does it or they are removed. You fail to understand the relevant information I am giving to you......Goretooth was told by the OWNER of the server to remove the LLJK presence. THe server owner is devilize, he makes the decisions for the 100 NA server. It was not Goretooth is mad Goretooth smash!! .
Well it was only a matter of time before I came on and on the ban list seen a dozen or so lljk members banned in mass. I didn't order a mass ban, but I'm happy to take the credit for it. Each individual that was ban can request, for themselves, to be unbanned along with the reasoning for the ban originally - just like everyone else. this thread is closed.
I hope that's miscommunication and not one of your admins trying to cover for another.
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Wait what servers were removed from the list?! Some were kept right?
Why was there no public announcement for this?!
Now what will I play on... I don't want to be stuck on EU and team shooting people due to 220 ping, egh.
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Hey Gash, Im glad we share the point of view, we dont like collective punishment. I can also understand why it happens, but we dont support it :)
so banning a handful of trolls out of a 100 strong clan is collective punishment? I was under the impression that like a dozen guys got banned, but surely you weren't posting about something you don't know anything about were you?
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I can respect the fact that you don't support it.
But must you punish the entire NA community by disconnecting popular NA servers from the Database?
While the decision to collectively ban was drastic. I believe so was the decision to disconnect servers.
Regular players are paying the price of the disruptive behavior of organized trolls and that seems hardly fair or justified.
This issue took place between NA, was addressed that same night by both NA parties, and will be resolved by us as well over time.
We've understood the CRPG developer and administrator message. This was a first in almost a year of server-managing - and I sincerely believe will not re-occur at any other time as the greater majority of NA clans are responsible in their management.
Ok, theres obiously some misunderstandings here. I do not have the power to disconnect anyone from any database. I dont _want_ to disconnect any NA servers either, tho I wish devilizes server would stop the collective punishment.
Let me quote myself "No one have been suggesting to take down the ATS server network."
I see the irony tho. In your statement "I can respect the fact that you don't support it." you distance yourself from being against collective punishment, means you actually support it, in a post where you protest against it. One word: hypocrisy
But no, this is not the devs disconnecting you, this is merely a bug.
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Gash I think the EU is experiencing this as well, It is a bug i believe
If that's the case, then my apologies, I was mis-informed.
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so banning a handful of trolls out of a 100 strong clan is collective punishment? I was under the impression that like a dozen guys got banned, but surely you weren't posting about something you don't know anything about were you?
Read the quotes, they were telling them to ban everyone with a LLJK tag, whether they did anything or not. One guy was on the ATS/Hospitaler team and got banned for doing nothing. Once we saw the 3rd member get banned in a row, especially for doing nothing, we all left to prevent them from banning all of us.
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The number I am hearing banned is 13, most of whom are just going to get unbanned anyway. We can get a solid number though from gash when he gets back, and hopefully this will stifle all of you talking out of your ass about a blanket goon banning. Maybe then you euros can fuck off and let us run our servers? you probably have some votes for removing your admin power to tend to anyway nuffen
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Haha drama indeed. You notice how many posts drama threads get? This is good, people are talking. Besides that we all need 'bad guys', or else whose going to be the good guys? I find it funny that most people love to hate and yet they try to drive the hated away. I say temp ban, they do it again temp ban and so on. Obviously though, if their "clan leader" cant keep them under some kind of control the clan should be dispersed. IMO of course
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obviously we are just sowing the seeds of international hatred before strat comes up
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The number I am hearing banned is 13, most of whom are just going to get unbanned anyway. We can get a solid number though from gash when he gets back, and hopefully this will stifle all of you talking out of your ass about a blanket goon banning. Maybe then you euros can fuck off and let us run our servers? you probably have some votes for removing your admin power to tend to anyway nuffen
Nice one, you cant defend the collective punishment, so you attack me as a person instead. Nice. Ok, I challenge you, try the same nomination/vote system on ATS servers, and lets see if YOU survive. :D
PS: NAh, dont, you wont last 2 seconds.
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Hey look you're talking out of your ass about shit you don't know about again
surprise!
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I see the irony tho. In your statement "I can respect the fact that you don't support it." you distance yourself from being against collective punishment, means you actually support it, in a post where you protest against it. One word: hypocrisy
Nuffen, how old are you?
My apologies if I sound condescending here with this question but you assume many things about my personality which are rather unwarranted.
You are publicly questioning my integrity and honesty, even though I've posted my thought and beliefs on the situation rather clearly.
I am not a hypocrite - and the fact that you make this statement with so much confidence and without knowing me is rather pathetic and speaks volume on your character and maturity.
I do not distance myself from collective punishment. I've already stated so - I am against it. Putting words or intentions in my mouth is rather insulting.
You are being hard-headed in this issue of which you have no experience in. How you feel legit about giving us lessons is beyond me. I don't go to EU admins and tell them how they should handle their issues and yet you have the nerve to do so. I can understand now why there are so many nominations to have you removed as admin.
I shall refrain from talking with you on the subject matter as we maintain our course to a dead-end.
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Im 28, and you?
I dont really assume a lot. I just respond to your answers. On one hand you react on NA being collectively punished, on the other hand you defend LLJK being collectively punished. Thats hypocrite.
I apologise if I called you a hypocrite, I was talking about your statements, not about you as a person. I dont want this to go down to a personal level, I wanna talk about the facts, the situation, whats going on on the NA servers atm.
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What, no, wait!
We need more ADMIN DRAMA.
Seriously, what the hell is this thread about? Ecko wants people to stop whining? He wants more credit? Man, just quit if you feel so unappreciated. You are clearly doing something right, and you will NEVER please everyone, so you better make a choice, carry on with whatever you are doing or pass on management to someone else.
It's that simple, really.
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I see.
We got loads of LLJKs visiting. All of em because they are banned from ATS servers. They dont cause any problems, makes me wonder, really.
Anyway, you're defending collective punishment. What if we, EU admins, started to ban all NA users, just because we got problems with some? Would you feel that that was ok?
If you dont know SA/Goon reputation from other games, you havent been on the internet for very long. People switch MMO servers if Goons show up on theirs :P
They're very good at what they do, sometimes its funny most times its annoying.
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I dont really assume a lot. I just respond to your answers. On one hand you react on NA being collectively punished, on the other hand you defend LLJK being collectively punished. Thats hypocrite. I apologise if I called you a hypocrite, I was talking about this action, not about you as a person.
Once again, there's a big difference between LLJK and most normal clans. LLJK troll and cause problems collectively. The more of them there are, the worse it gets. They relish in that reputation and they laugh at the rage it creates. Then they'll collectively jump down an admin's throat when he makes a call on the server. I find LLJK members to be fine when they are by themselves or only a couple of them.
Perma-mute? Shame there's no such thing. We could mute them everytime they come in - but they say it themselves, if we mute them, their trolling will become more physical in-game (kicking & punching teammates, exploiting terrain, pushing the rules to the limit, whatever a goon can come up with to annoy folks)
Peppovitch has had to deal with complaints about LLJK for a long time. It accumulated and gave the result we have today.
It's a shame really.
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Uhm, you were asking my age, I politely answered, whats yours?
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Obviously though, if their "clan leader" cant keep them under some kind of control the clan should be dispersed. IMO of course
Goons (lljk) aren't a clan, at least not in the ways of any other crpg clan.
From someone who was there for the lljk banning, someone who has been around for BkS bannings, the shit that went down was a lot closer to collective banning rather than banning from an individual case by case basis. I'm not saying this to get on anyone's bad side or to ruffle anyone's feathers. But it seems to me that there is a fair bit of injustice that goes on specifically in Devilize's server that is always targeted at groups rather than individuals. I've got nothing against Devilize, he's one of the few people I think uses admin powers sparingly.
First, for the actual lljk collective banning incident, from my perspective, it certainly seemed like the intentions were to ban every lljk on the server. Especially considering the fact that lljk was being punished for camping when there were several other people (not affiliated with lljk) that for the previous two rounds, had been doing the exact same thing as lljk. Correct me if I'm wrong, but for this incident specifically, it sure looks like a collective ban to me. If ten robbers choose to rob a bank and nine of them are black, the tenth guy being white, there's no way in hell only nine people are going to get convicted.
Secondly, the statements of lljk members in this thread about "both sides trolling" is far too underplayed. I can go back and cite the BkS incidents much like the lljk ones, where they get banned/muted/threatened for doing things that I've seen all other clans do in the 100 man without even getting questioned by an admin. The worst I ever see lljk do, is tk each other. Something I see clan members do on a daily basis, something that doesn't harm anyone, yet lljk/BkS are the only ones I've ever seen punished for it.
Finally, as awesome as it was for Ecko(Nothing against you here ecko, setting them up with a server rather than giving them no place to go, was nice to see. Though I'd have much rather seen the bans immediately reverted.) to hook lljk up with their own server, essentially what happened was segregation. lljk were removed from the 100 man and 5 minutes later they were given their own server.
I'm surprised there's still this much lljk bashing going on in this thread. If I were put through the same shit as lljk, I'd be creating a lot more of a fuss than they currently are. I'd say it's rather mature of them to be handling this segregation issue as they are, rather than flooding the forums with shit.
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I'm surprised there's still this much lljk bashing going on in this thread. If I were put through the same shit as lljk, I'd be creating a lot more of a fuss than they currently are. I'd say it's rather mature of them to be handling this segregation issue as they are, rather than flooding the forums with shit.
It's ok Tydeus, we are separate but equal
(I need to play my Dr Martin Luther King Jr character again)
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Wait, I missed the Bks thing. What happened?
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Giving LLJk a server was only a temporary solution...not all were banned on hospitaller 100 man, and they could still play on the 80 and siege.
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No do not shut down any of your servers, I love playing there and I'm fond of most ATS members/admins (in a non-homosexual way). Show me the way to donate and it shall be done! I haven't seen any abuse of powers (not by you, specifically), but your gripe is a bit confusing still. What were people complaining about exactly?
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It's ok Tydeus, we are separate but equal
(I need to play my Dr Martin Luther King Jr character again)
Ha I think I muted you, sorry about that :D
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My computer died a couple days ago, and I won't get a new gaming rig for a week or so.
Please don't tell me I won't have my precious siege server to play on when I get back in the saddle!
I've never had a serious issue with the administration of the NA servers-
minor issues yes, but nothing that stopped me from donating at least three separate times to the various people paying for the NA servers since their inception.
Keep the faith my low-ping-loving brothers.
Love,
Benson
P.S.
It would help if people were admins of the servers they actually play on, and fix attacker spawns in Blank_84 on siege. Mmkay, thanks.
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Man so many things to say and I have so little time! Here we go...
I know most of you will remember me. I myself have been singled out and banned a couple times for doing nothing wrong in the past. Afterwards I was an admin of the TFO server and a damn good one too!
Well to be honest I am glad that the Euro people that created the mod are taking notice on all these things going on. On the NA servers specifically the "Northern Alliance" servers as I will call them from now on. I know you hate the term "ATS" servers but all your bans are universal between the servers(except maybe bordertown) and almost all your admins are the same. So it kind of fits. So let me recap:
Before these patches came out recently the game was kind of stale as far as player activity goes. Everyone was used to playing by the set rules. I myself still made it a point to try to not communicate within the game because I knew how twitchy some of your admins are with that BAN function. During this time it seemed like you guys couldn't find active admins. Admins got more and more strict as far as what was ok and not ok. New rules were added while many players were gone not keeping up with CRPG. Then...
chadz releases new patches for the mod and the word gets around the internet. New players take interest and start playing for the first time. Old players come back after not playing for a while to check out the new patch. The only rule they know is not to ladder pault even though that is not possible anymore. Forums go down along with the new rules made up in the server threads so now one can access them. Some old players that have not been playing lately still have admin and decide "If I do not use this right now then I am not doing my administrative duty." Some players that have had their admin taken away for some reason got it back. Now we got a recipe for disaster!
My clan LLJK decides to replicate some of the "tactics" that they have been seeing many of the Northern Alliance clans use on these NA "COMMUNITY SERVERS". They all get banned by unknown admins. Devilize is blamed for the mass banning but then claims he did not order the bans but is happy to take credit for them. He also does not list the admins who did the banning for their sake. Ecko then freaks out and realizes "oh shit a bunch of people got banned from these servers for no fucking reason I better make up borderlands to help calm the situation before the forums fill up with complaints about the admins I appointed."
Instead of just unbanning the LLJK and claiming it was a mistake... Devilize wants to humor himself more and requests that all the LLJK members that were banned to post an unban request in his forum section one by one.
Does this all sound about right? I guess this might be the reason EU people are looking down on you bro.
Now as much as I hate you guys from the past I will say this... I wouldn't like to see the servers go away. I would instead like to see you fix them. You can do this very very very easily by appointing people that do their job correctly. Possibly even taking away admin powers from people that had them taken away to begin with(Goretooth). Look at how fucking long it took you guys to get rid of Lorn.
You claim your servers are COMMUNITY SERVERS or at least you like to think of them in that way. Man up and take away powers from people that shouldn't have them then find people that are trustworthy and not clouded by bad judgement. Teach them how to KICK people a few times before you permanently BAN them. They could be new and not understand what they are doing wrong. This is very very important because the EU people seem to understand this. For some reason you, your admins, and Devilize do not.
Man up. Stop shying away from what needs to be done. Fix your admin problem.
Also:
Everyone is so god damn worried about an LLJK player getting admin powers or a server. YET when have you seen me or Lady Gaga abuse their powers?
Never right?
When have you seen a Hospitaller/ATS/TS/nK abuse their powers?
Too many to count.
PS: If the problem is really money then just let it go already. I know like 10 people that would pay for a Chicago NA server myself included. Though we all know you guys would lobby against that.
PPS: How can any of you seriously read any of Gash's or Native's posts on any topic in this entire forum and think to yourself "Hey that guy would make a good admin!" I mean wow. Seriously?
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Well, I personally haven't experienced any admins abusing anything on the NA servers, but I do notice a surplus of them, and I know that could be problematic.
About LLJK, every time I played in the 100-man, there were about 5-6 LLJK just constantly trolling people and being ass-hats. I now, and I'm sure many others, am under the impression that LLJK is just a clan of a bunch of dickheads. That is the impression your clan-members have given me. So it's a bit ironic that you are telling Ecko to fix his problem (not saying there isn't one) when you too have a problem with your own members. Maybe on the inside you guys act mature, but on the outside you guys appear just the opposite. I stopped playing on the 100-man just because I sincerely disliked even being in the same server as your members. Now, while you may or may not personally give a damn about my opinion of your clan, don't you still think image is important? Do you think if your members acted as mature players most of the time they would have been banned like this? Let's not point the finger....just accept that everyone is a bit at fault here.