cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Lt_Anders on June 08, 2013, 03:46:56 pm

Title: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 08, 2013, 03:46:56 pm
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2040991/report-nsa-prism-program-spied-on-americans-emails-searches.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57588253-83/what-is-the-nsas-prism-program-faq/
And no, I don't trust the government just randomly watching information without a court order, but, meh. Police state on the Horizon?
Google it :mad:...hahaha....if you want more info.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 08, 2013, 03:54:39 pm
/nonchalant
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 08, 2013, 03:58:42 pm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/qa-what-is-prism-what-does-it-do-is-it-legal-and-what-data-can-it-obtain-8650239.html

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Rumblood on June 08, 2013, 06:28:21 pm
This is one of the reasons that 9/11 spawned those False Flag conspiracy theories. Even saying it wasn't one, the government is certainly taking every advantage of it.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 08, 2013, 07:51:38 pm
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Oberyn on June 08, 2013, 08:03:42 pm
Governments all over the world have been trying to police and enforce their own laws on the internet for more than a decade now. If anything the US is playing catchup to other more obviously totalitarian governments. It's only a matter of time to be honest.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: zagibu on June 08, 2013, 09:31:07 pm
It's interesting to see how total surveillance through cameras becomes more and more unnecessary, because people are more and more willing to carry smartphones that can be used for continuous, precise tracking.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: EponiCo on June 08, 2013, 10:54:59 pm
So, that means he was right about big companies selling backdoors to Secret Service?
Funnily enough it is only in retrospect I can see what that might have my question why this device that has no reason whatsoever to be online - and malfunction may be lethal - is remotely hackable. If they are controlling it over Android to save costs and Android has a backdoor... Or maybe he meant they too were paid for providing access?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Leshma on June 09, 2013, 12:30:34 pm
This is some epic stuff. According to this map my country doesn't exist :lol:

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http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/8/4409746/nsas-boundless-informant-software-leaked
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 09, 2013, 12:35:16 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alamut_(1938_novel)
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Overdriven on June 09, 2013, 12:37:45 pm
UK press is going ape shit over this one. For them I think it's the phone hacking scandal on a much bigger scale. They basically want to know who knew about it in parliament and then let the heads role. Pretty standard really. Naturally all the big companies like google ect have come out insisting they knew nothing and didn't allow the US any access.

As for me, I'm not to bothered about it. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

This bit made me laugh
Quote
a top-secret 41-page PowerPoint document

Why do I immediately think some kid put together some really shitty presentation and sent it to them.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 09, 2013, 12:45:35 pm
uh-oh
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 09, 2013, 12:51:04 pm
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 09, 2013, 03:30:07 pm
UK press is going ape shit over this one. For them I think it's the phone hacking scandal on a much bigger scale. They basically want to know who knew about it in parliament and then let the heads role. Pretty standard really. Naturally all the big companies like google ect have come out insisting they knew nothing and didn't allow the US any access.

As for me, I'm not to bothered about it. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.

This bit made me laugh
Why do I immediately think some kid put together some really shitty presentation and sent it to them.

Glorious Latex master race
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 09, 2013, 08:05:06 pm
 :) Jesus, took six hours to break that down.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 09, 2013, 08:18:58 pm
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivalry
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Sir_Hans on June 10, 2013, 10:54:59 am
Most people who think it's a serious issue aren't worried about getting in trouble for what they say on the phone.
It's more about giving up rights, privacy, and civil liberties in the name of more security, and the fact that we didn't even have a say in this one. It was implemented years ago.

Also a permanent record of communications could always be used against you even if you did nothing wrong in those records.
For example: If I got arrested and charged for a serious violent crime. They could look at my web records and see that I play, view, search a lot of violent PC/Console games, and use that as an argument to make me look like the guilty suspect in court. There's nothing illegal with playing violent video games, but it would be easy for a prosecution team to use that as a suggestion of violent tendencies irl, even though there is no connection between playing violent video games and going outside and being violent. It's been done before.

The primary issue of prism doesn't bother me though, as much as the fact that they are paving the way to do another "citizens civil liberties for added security" trade, outside of the public eye, in the near future.

That's my 2 cents on the subject.

I guess we know now why the U.S. is the largest purchaser of bulk hard drives in the world by a large margin.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Leshma on June 10, 2013, 11:45:43 am
This is meant to be used primarily against groups of people, not individuals. Purpose of this program is to easily identify possible terrorist threat. That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in reality terrorist is also any person or group of people who is trying to perform violent overthrow of the government.

This brings more safety for anyone, but it also minimize the chance to change things when they go in the wrong direction.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Christo on June 10, 2013, 12:04:47 pm
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They were always like this, but they feel it's safer to show their true colours now because they are virtually unstoppable.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Leshma on June 10, 2013, 12:09:40 pm
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Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Vibe on June 10, 2013, 12:15:45 pm
This is some epic stuff. According to this map my country doesn't exist :lol:

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did you check under Yugoslavia

#balkaninternetproblems
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 10, 2013, 01:07:38 pm
NOBODY WILL WIELD EXCALIBUR, BUT MEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 10, 2013, 01:09:37 pm
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Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 10, 2013, 01:26:15 pm
This is meant to be used primarily against groups of people, not individuals. Purpose of this program is to easily identify possible terrorist threat. That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in reality terrorist is also any person or group of people who is trying to perform violent overthrow of the government.

This brings more safety for anyone, but it also minimize the chance to change things when they go in the wrong direction.

Any government will call any destabilization attempt terrorism. It's just a word.

Anti-terror measures and administrations by no means exist because it's a safety concern. Looking at the numbers and comparing with actual safety problems, it just isn't. Creating an anti-lightning, anti-alligator or anti-child molester task force with the same budget would make more sense from that point of view.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 10, 2013, 01:53:09 pm
http://news.sky.com/story/1101445/prism-whistleblower-sought-better-world
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 10, 2013, 01:58:33 pm
/dissonance



Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 10, 2013, 03:27:21 pm
Time to make a choice.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: SixThumbs on June 10, 2013, 04:59:04 pm

As for me, I'm not to bothered about it. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.


Except besides the fact that aggregate data used to sell me stuff is annoying an invasive to me enough this also obstructs the freedom of the press. Journalists have already lost sources because they lose their anonymity and refuse to give up any more information. Just because I might not be doing anything "wrong" per se I still don't want some independent entity with no oversight watching over that and making the call on whether it is or not under ambiguous accusations.

Also, if I'm not doing anything wrong and my activities can be monitored then can we have a look at the ludicrously high number of things classified that the government has done under legal assumptions without waiting months for a FOIA request?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: [ptx] on June 10, 2013, 05:53:40 pm
As for me, I'm not to bothered about it. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
How can someone possibly say this with a straight face? :|
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 10, 2013, 06:02:24 pm
The Patriot Act opened the door for the government to pretty much do whatever they want (i.e. take away freedoms) in the name of safety.  Shortly after 9/11, the NSA was putting networking equipment into every telecom hub in the country.  All digital data is being routed through NSA equipment which analyzes the information for key words and stores the data for later retrieval, or it will set off a trigger which will flag it for human review. 

This is really old news, and it's surprising that people didn't know it was going on.  But I guess better late than never, I was really pissed off when I first found out about it, but this was at least 7 or 8 years ago.  I've already accepted the fact that nothing will change as long as the majority of the country keeps arguing whether the Democrats or Republicans better represent themselves.  When in reality the Democrat and the Republican party are both in cahoots together with the corporate owners of this country.  Until we rally together and fight back for our collective interests, we'll keep getting pushed farther and farther into fascism and authoritarianism. 

One more note, although it is sad to see a lot of people arguing with their neighbors about social issues (which are there to divide the population and keep us fighting each other rather than our true enemies), at least these people are semi-engaged.  I'd say at least half (or more) of the American population just doesn't even care about politics, our government, or current affairs.  They're so wrapped up and busy with their own lives, working 9-5, putting food on the table, taking Johnny to baseball.  That when they get 2 hours out of the day for free time, they're not trying to worry about the greater problems facing our country, they just want to tune out and watch some Survivor or American 'Idle'.  So I really doubt that our circumstances will ever change for the better in this country.

I lied, one more comment...the data is reportedly used to "identify and catch terrorists", but in reality something like 95% of the data is used for identifying and prosecuting domestic criminals (such as drug dealers).  So it's just one more tool used by the government to spy on it's own citizens.  Also did you know, if you're accused of being a terrorist, you lose your right to Habeus Corpus (i.e. the right to face your accusers) you could technically sit in Gitmo the rest of your life based on the government claiming you're a terrorist.  Pretty neat, huh?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: zagibu on June 10, 2013, 06:54:49 pm
How can someone possibly say this with a straight face? :|

Well, there is only a tiny problem with his statement, and that is the term "wrong", which is defined by those in power. Otherwise it's pretty okay, IMO.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 10, 2013, 07:25:28 pm
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Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 10, 2013, 07:44:33 pm
Right from the NSA's webpage: http://nsa.gov1.info/data/index.html

Your Data: If You Have Nothing to Hide, You Have Nothing to Fear

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Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 10, 2013, 07:55:25 pm
Hillary invokes Kennedy assassination links Obama psychopath wanted.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Henry_Broodsonson on June 10, 2013, 08:02:31 pm
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 10, 2013, 08:54:05 pm
How can someone possibly say this with a straight face? :|

Germans that did nothing wrong had nothing to worry about back in 38' either.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Swaggart on June 11, 2013, 04:32:42 pm
So uh, how about that Xbox One needing to be connected to the internet to function. And how about the fact that Kinect (you know, that HD camera with a microphone that's so good at tracking movements) also needs to be connected to the Xbox One to function. Oh yeah and also Microsoft was one of the PRISM companies.

Hmmm... Always connected to the internet, Kinect's HD camera working even if you're not even using it, Microsoft working with PRISM.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 11, 2013, 04:37:49 pm
So uh, how about that Xbox One needing to be connected to the internet to function. And how about the fact that Kinect (you know, that HD camera with a microphone that's so good at tracking movements) also needs to be connected to the Xbox One to function. Oh yeah and also Microsoft was one of the PRISM companies.

Hmmm... Always connected to the internet, Kinect's HD camera working even if you're not even using it, Microsoft working with PRISM.

(click to show/hide)

The Pentagon wants to see you wank off
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Swaggart on June 11, 2013, 04:46:29 pm
Is it weird that the idea of that turns me on?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 11, 2013, 04:49:56 pm
Is it weird that the idea of that turns me on?


Not really

Leshma : is it weird ? I mean, for you ?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Leshma on June 11, 2013, 04:56:57 pm
Quote
weird  (wîrd)
adj. weird·er, weird·est
1. Of, relating to, or suggestive of the preternatural or supernatural.
2. Of a strikingly odd or unusual character; strange.

Masturbation is quite common and perfectly natural. If they want to watch, I don't mind.

Edit: Have you ever seen Wikipedia article on masturbation?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Erasmas on June 11, 2013, 06:12:50 pm
I deal with privacy matters professionally and in my eyes it is outrageous.

I understand that the government may wish to protect its citizens against threats. I also understand that certain data may be needed to catch domestic criminals. But the this is - in fact - a lawful set up of "Big Brother is watching you". One step to far. we have to protect our rights to keep our matters to ourselves, otherwise in no time we all will live in North Korea. I remember the tapped phones in old commie times, when wires were set up for political reasons. Is that the direction the - theoretically (cause the practice is long gone in that respect) - most democratic of countries want to take?

The biggest problem is that the international companies are associated with PRISM. Apple. Microsoft. I have an iPhone and I know that I agreed to Apple to store some of my data. But I agreed to Apple, not the the US government. This is why I see it as outrageous. every country may set up the laws as it fits, as long as it does not influence citizens of other countries who have nothing to do with US. It - in fact - may be an act of espionage.

And I do not agree that we should easily accept it as a fact. And in particular I do not agree to Leshma's way of thinking  - If they want to watch, I don't mind, I do nothing wrong. Let me give you an example:

All you know that DNA testing is admissible as the evidence in the curt of law. Hell, without DNA test we couldn't watch CSI:Miami :D But the DNA tests were used to prove the guilty in the case of 100% match. Recently US courts started to accept partial match as the basis for court orders - warrants. And what it means in practice? If ANY of your relative's DNA is the database YOU will be treated as suspect if there is a partial match with the blood ot tissue found on the crime scene.

Do you think that it is that really OK?  It is US for now, but such solutions tend to spread. I am really worried about our future.

"Good Bye Freedom." The new US national anthem. This is sad and scary. 
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 11, 2013, 07:50:53 pm
It is a democratically elected government head that takes decisions that are not democratically accepted. Not that uncommon.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: BlindGuy on June 11, 2013, 08:51:35 pm
1/ Stop this weird belief you have that the people controlling countries are elected politicians.

2/ Stop this weird belief you have that you have any rights

3/ Stop this weird belief you have that the people running your country have any interests at heart except their own.


Im not a conspiracy nut, I am a realist, I am fairly intelligent and I drew conclusions long ago that nothing has been able to change, simply because all evidence points to the reality of what I think:

large countries of the first world (I use first world in its original unsullied meaning: the countries (mostly democratic) that are allied along the NATO axis (2nd world being the soviet alligned factions, and Third World Countries, although now used to describe less economically developed countries, actually means countries and states that refused to align themselves with the NATO world supremecy pack or the Soviet side)) are run for the financial benefit of the aristocracy. The US is a leader in this area, and that they monitor all communications should not surprise anyone. George Orwell wasn't writing fiction, Robert Tressel wasn't writing fiction, they were trying to improve the life of man by showing you all (most) refuse to see: Your being used.

But we are the dominant species on the planet because of greed. So no surprise, the ruling class are the greediest. It's what compells them to rule. They are greedy for power that they can convert into money. To sustain lifestyles they believe will make them happy.

I'm not trying to make you "wake up" or see reality, only you can do that, but to do it requires some truths: money is, essentially, worthless. It has no value. You cannot eat it, you cannot make shelter from it (well you can but its just not practical now is it?), you cannot heal your wounds with it, and it will not grant you immortality. At the end of it all, we all die. That's the ONLY certainty in life: death.

I used to believe that phrase "There are only 2 certainties in life: Death, and Taxes"....but then I stopped paying taxes. Now I have only death ahead. It's scary. But I accept it. No longer does any goverment have control over me: There is NOTHING they can do to stop me from dieing one day, and as such they have no power over me. When challenged by letter and visit from my local goverment as to WHY I no longer payed taxes, I challenged THEM: what can they do? Arrest me, and provide me free food and shelter for a while? Welcome, come, take me. The letters stopped.

The only control anyone has over your life is what you give them. The only right is that one day you will die. Stop pretending we live in a world where right or wrong excist. I feel injustice. I too know rightous indignation. But I don't feel them towards the actions of goverments: Why should I? They are merely looking after their own interests: why shouldn't they? If I relied on you for my way of life to continue, I too would monitor what you were doing, to ensure you dont start taking control of your life and stop supporting mine.

You cannot blame greedy people for being greedy. You also cannot blame people who lie and cheat whole populations for being paranoid.

Grow up people.


EDIT: Erasmas, your living ina dream world if you think that "freedom" and goverment can ever co-exist, the two concepts are essentially the opposite of one another.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Erasmas on June 11, 2013, 09:16:59 pm
It is a democratically elected government head that takes decisions that are not democratically accepted. Not that uncommon.

True. It is sad, however, that such decisions are aimed in the very basic principles of democracy and rights attributed to citizens of the democratic country - in this particular case set out in the 3rd and 4th amendments to the US constitution (5th stuck in Guantanamo base, but who cares, it is Cuba anyway). It is sad that such decisions are kept in secret. And it is sad that private corporations agree to participate in such operations.

@BlindGuy - I was a bit sarcastic in case you did not notice. But. It is true that the democracy is an invention that failed in many respects. Still, I would prefer to live in a place where human beings populating such place have something to say. I would prefer to live in a place where you are part of a system which gives you some tools to defend against itself. I would prefer to live in a country that allows you to give voice in all matters relating personally to you.  That's it. I am not naive, thou...
 
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 11, 2013, 09:48:46 pm
Blindguy : even more importantly, truth doesn't matter. That some people with more power than you are supposedly greedy is no reason to be a douche yourself (by that I'm not saying you should pay taxes, it's just not a good reason). When I vote, I take it as what it is, with all the imperfect processes that go along with it, same when I pay taxes (or anything else for that matter). Conversely, if you are not a cheating bastard yourself, you have very good reasons not to believe everybody else is a cheating bastard too. Even if you do, assuming politicians will always do what is their personal interest, the point of democracy is that their personal interests coincide as much as possible with what the voters want.

The world is a much more chaotic place than something which is "run for the financial benefit of the aristocracy", precisely because money is worthless. Despite income inequalities being multiplied tenfold, rich people still die of cancer at 50 after 5 divorces. People do not seek money or power just for the sake of it, those are just easy mediums to happiness, at least in the imagination of many (and to some extent they are). Happiness hormones is what we all are after exaclty like all other animals, period. Which also means that as social animals we all want to be friendly, kind, charitable, just, altruist and all those kinds of things as well.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Xant on June 11, 2013, 09:54:01 pm
What's wrong with US invading privacy? You don't have anything to hide, do you? Besides, it's for the children. You don't hate children, do you?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 11, 2013, 09:57:50 pm
What's wrong with US invading privacy? You don't have anything to hide, do you? Besides, it's for the children. You don't hate children, do you?

YOU ARE AGAINST THE PATRIOT ACT ? SO YOU WANT TO HELP TERRORISTS AND CHILD MOLESTERS ! DEEEERP

Somehow we don't seem to get that specific kind of rethoric flaw that much in EU political speeches.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: [ptx] on June 11, 2013, 10:55:31 pm
As i once said somewhere, electoral democracy depends on its' voters having done their research - which is an utopian vision at best. As a result, you get the "grey mass" of largely stoooooopid people voting in a government they will not hesitate to curse at a month later.

Demarchy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarchy) FTW.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 11, 2013, 11:17:22 pm
And ptx that's very much true in America.  I'd honestly say that 75% of the population doesn't pay attention to current events, the news, or really understand what is happening with their own government (not just the propaganda, but the criticisms of the government as well).

Add to that fact that the people who are informed are bickering with their neighbors about which candidate better represents their social policies (when those politicians are working together for mutual financial benefit), and you have the current state we're in. 

Divide and conquer (and keep the masses uneducated), is the single best tool for people seeking power. 
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 12, 2013, 01:32:38 am
Keep the masses uneducated is the single best tool for people seeking power.

ANd you could say, that that is true with most Western Education schemes. Dumb down the system just to pass.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kalam on June 12, 2013, 02:15:11 am
Anti-terror measures and administrations by no means exist because it's a safety concern. Looking at the numbers and comparing with actual safety problems, it just isn't. Creating an anti-lightning, anti-alligator or anti-child molester task force with the same budget would make more sense from that point of view.

You think it's a joke, but there's a branch of the US government that has exactly that. Think of any potential accident or discriminatory/negatively viewed behavior  and there's a group of people who's jobs are largely dedicated to battling these things.

That said, this is wrong. Not that they're doing it, because let's face it, if you were in charge, would you not? It's not that 'the government is greedy' or anything like that. It's simpler. You always act in your own (unless you're batshit crazy) self-interest, don't you? What's wrong is that our government got caught. We can't accept this in public. It's fine if it never came out, but once shit like this just keeps coming back to the spotlight, you kind of have to take a stand and say something about it.

It's like this. If I had a crazy serial killer dad who killed off random people I didn't like, I wouldn't care. If I found out he was doing this, I'd get mad and tell him to turn himself in or I'd call the police myself.

That's enough with overblown analogies. Sorry guys.

It's easy to settle back and claim that's inevitable and there's no real freedom, but you are free to change it if you're an American citizen. You just need to make enough friends. Friends who whine a lot.

I guess I lied about the analogies thing, but this last one was less of one. Right?

Really, though. Say something. To anyone. Don't argue, though, unless you've got a Philosophy degree or something. We can't force education on everyone, but we can preach at them until they just believe what we're saying.






Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Smoothrich on June 12, 2013, 02:56:06 am
You think it's a joke, but there's a branch of the US government that has exactly that. Think of any potential accident or discriminatory/negatively viewed behavior  and there's a group of people who's jobs are largely dedicated to battling these things.

That said, this is wrong. Not that they're doing it, because let's face it, if you were in charge, would you not? It's not that 'the government is greedy' or anything like that. It's simpler. You always act in your own (unless you're batshit crazy) self-interest, don't you? What's wrong is that our government got caught. We can't accept this in public. It's fine if it never came out, but once shit like this just keeps coming back to the spotlight, you kind of have to take a stand and say something about it.

It's like this. If I had a crazy serial killer dad who killed off random people I didn't like, I wouldn't care. If I found out he was doing this, I'd get mad and tell him to turn himself in or I'd call the police myself.

That's enough with overblown analogies. Sorry guys.

It's easy to settle back and claim that's inevitable and there's no real freedom, but you are free to change it if you're an American citizen. You just need to make enough friends. Friends who whine a lot.

I guess I lied about the analogies thing, but this last one was less of one. Right?

Really, though. Say something. To anyone. Don't argue, though, unless you've got a Philosophy degree or something. We can't force education on everyone, but we can preach at them until they just believe what we're saying.

what
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Oberyn on June 12, 2013, 04:06:16 am
Bunch of whiners living in the freest, healthiest, least violent period humanity has EVER gone through, in the most priviledged countries, whining about "opression" and "totalitarians". Get a sense of perspective.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Swaggart on June 12, 2013, 05:10:19 am
Least violent? The fuck are you smoking?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Xant on June 12, 2013, 05:36:59 am
If I had a crazy serial killer dad who killed off random people I didn't like, I wouldn't care. If I found out he was doing this, I'd get mad and tell him to turn himself in or I'd call the police myself.

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Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kalam on June 12, 2013, 05:44:19 am
Least violent? The fuck are you smoking?

Consider that train of thought.

http://www.npr.org/2011/12/07/143285836/war-and-violence-on-the-decline-in-modern-times

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I should clarify:
   
If I had a crazy serial killer dad who killed off random people I didn't like, and there wasn't definitive proof it was happening I wouldn't care- even if I had some suspicion that it was happening.

If I had a crazy serial killer dad who killed off random people I didn't like and I  found out (caught him redhanded or encountered some other definite proof) he was doing this, I'd get mad and tell him to turn himself in or I'd call the police myself.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Oberyn on June 12, 2013, 05:46:43 am
Least violent? The fuck are you smoking?

What the fuck are YOU smoking? Get some sort of knowledge about history please.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Oberyn on June 12, 2013, 06:02:04 am
Consider that train of thought.

http://www.npr.org/2011/12/07/143285836/war-and-violence-on-the-decline-in-modern-times


Great link, pretty much everything I could have said on the subject gets covered in that interview.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Swaggart on June 12, 2013, 06:15:12 am
It all depends on how much time you want to consider. The past few years? Then sure, you're right. The 20th century was incredibly violent right up until its end, so it should be hardly surprising that the 21st is mild in comparison (so far).
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 12, 2013, 06:46:03 am
It all depends on how much time you want to consider. The past few years? Then sure, you're right. The 20th century was incredibly violent right up until its end, so it should be hardly surprising that the 21st is mild in comparison (so far).

Not to mention, that, if we ever wanted, we could, at any point and time, effectively destroy our planet in under 2 hours. At no point in human history have we been able to achieve that.

In addition, technology has led to an increase in fighting capabilites of a single soldier, thereby reducing total soldiers needed for battles and reducing death tolls. There's also been an extreme increase in medical technologies and advances in societal structure(slavery for example).

Are we less violent? No, we still have the same urges as we have through out history, but we've put into place, our own safeguards to prevent us from unleshing our truly violent impulses. (Look at the EU v US stuff on this forum. Many years ago, this would have been grounds for aggressive negotiation or expansion, now it's a monetary and influence war that tends away from the violent extremes.)

But, all it takes, is one person, one single person with the will to do it, and the world can burn quicker than we can blink an eye.

Also, we've developed the capability to create bio warfare, if we so wish. The amount of weapons in our arsenal to kill 1 billion people(more than probably most wars killed between 1700-Present) is just a button away.

(I am not agreeing or disagreeing, just stating that never discount the technology that allows the us to say we aren't as violent, from being used to make us the largest mass murders in history.)
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Xant on June 12, 2013, 07:38:38 am
The mindset that we shouldn't bitch and moan because the current times are good is bizarre. They're good because people bitch and moan if the government oversteps its boundaries. If no one says nothing when the government decides to take one freedom after the other, then soon we'll find that we don't live in such a free and oppression free world anymore.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Paul on June 12, 2013, 08:29:33 am
It's like this. If I had a crazy serial killer dad who killed off random people I didn't like, I wouldn't care. If I found out he was doing this, I'd get mad and tell him to turn himself in or I'd call the police myself.

His answer: Well, I can always make new children.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Oberyn on June 12, 2013, 09:17:37 am
Nuclear weapons and MAD is pretty much the only reason WW2 didn't immediately continue after the fall of Japan. The Soviets could have invaded all of western europe to the Atlantic and the US couldn't have done shit about it. They are also a huge part of the reason that there has yet to be another total war. So yes, that, along with advances in nutrition, general medical technology, agriculture, biological manipulation, etc are the reasons there is less war, crimes, famine than before. It has nothing to do with people bitching about shit. People have always bitched about shit. Should we suddenly discover an unlimited source of renewable energy and voluntary immortality, people would find a way to bitch about it somehow.
Because people aren't fundamentally different in their approach to life than they have been in the past. There is a saying, along the line of "civilization is just a couple of meals away from barbarity". When people have their basic material needs met, they can afford to worry about high minded concepts like "liberty" and "freedom". Others have a tendency to see things more pragmatically, little things like "where is my next meal going to come from" and "I hope no one I know gets killed today". You know, actual opression and misery. And despite all the high-minded rhetoric, the wealthy, well-fed "philosophers" pontificating about noble words and ethics would just as easily fall into the darwinistic survival of the fittest if the situation demanded it, like a mass famine or an epidemic (which we are more than due for). Or they would die.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Xant on June 12, 2013, 09:18:29 am
   
If I had a crazy serial killer dad who killed off random people I didn't like, and there wasn't definitive proof it was happening I wouldn't care- even if I had some suspicion that it was happening.

If I had a crazy serial killer dad who killed off random people I didn't like and I  found out (caught him redhanded or encountered some other definite proof) he was doing this, I'd get mad and tell him to turn himself in or I'd call the police myself.
Okay... why?

That's some fucked up thinking you got there. You go from not caring to "turn urself in or i call the police." Because of...? Why is there such a huge difference between "no definitive proof but strongly suspect" and "definitive proof"?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: [ptx] on June 12, 2013, 09:43:09 am
stuff
Okay, so? There is nothing wrong with either trying to further improve the current situation or at least trying to prevent it from getting worse. It's called progress.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 12, 2013, 03:04:12 pm
Bunch of whiners living in the freest, healthiest, least violent period humanity has EVER gone through

This is true, but one could argue this observation has on average always been true. In which case it doesn't really carry any value, does it ? Did the suffragettes stop because hey there's no more slavery ? Not accurate but I think you catch my drift.


About the second part,

in the most priviledged countries, whining about "opression" and "totalitarians". Get a sense of perspective.

Fair enough, and I entirely agree on this

Nuclear weapons and MAD is pretty much the only reason WW2 didn't immediately continue after the fall of Japan. The Soviets could have invaded all of western europe to the Atlantic and the US couldn't have done shit about it. They are also a huge part of the reason that there has yet to be another total war. So yes, that, along with advances in nutrition, general medical technology, agriculture, biological manipulation, etc are the reasons there is less war, crimes, famine than before. It has nothing to do with people bitching about shit. People have always bitched about shit. Should we suddenly discover an unlimited source of renewable energy and voluntary immortality, people would find a way to bitch about it somehow.
Because people aren't fundamentally different in their approach to life than they have been in the past. There is a saying, along the line of "civilization is just a couple of meals away from barbarity". When people have their basic material needs met, they can afford to worry about high minded concepts like "liberty" and "freedom". Others have a tendency to see things more pragmatically, little things like "where is my next meal going to come from" and "I hope no one I know gets killed today". You know, actual opression and misery. And despite all the high-minded rhetoric, the wealthy, well-fed "philosophers" pontificating about noble words and ethics would just as easily fall into the darwinistic survival of the fittest if the situation demanded it, like a mass famine or an epidemic (which we are more than due for). Or they would die.

Although that doesn't have to prevent us from protecting things that are good, no matter how futile in comparison with something else.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Christo on June 12, 2013, 03:13:08 pm
Nuclear weapons and MAD is pretty much the only reason WW2 didn't immediately continue after the fall of Japan. The Soviets could have invaded all of western europe to the Atlantic and the US couldn't have done shit about it.

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I always liked to think about alternate history.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 12, 2013, 03:19:04 pm
I'm quite sure the Internet wouldn't be an american thing if Europe had been completely invaded by the USSR.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on June 12, 2013, 10:22:50 pm
btw eric schmidt was at Bilderberg.just sayin....
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 12, 2013, 11:19:16 pm
btw eric schmidt was at Bilderberg.just sayin....

Your avatar remains fitting
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on June 13, 2013, 12:38:17 am
ye beer is older than u would expect :)

edit: forreal folks how couldnt u draw the lines between this and the DDR Stasi Methods in relate too the Modern Industrys? and seriously discuss about it.
The Argument of "Terrorisim" or Dr.Evils that could destroy the "Civilization" or the Selfdefence of the society of Psycopaths just doesent count when the usage of the Datas are clearly been used too build up a police state(NWO).
It is like it is always had been with Technology ,it can be used for the good or the bad side of the Medal.
Too prevent any of the arguments i stated above ,this System we currently live in simply isnt made for.Its the opposite actually in my believe.The problems are made of the Society and Humanity by itself.If the very core problems wont change no Prison like Overseer like NSA will do it nore controll it.As the very core problems lie in the society this DDR STASI is by no way acceptabel not even discussabel.
And i tell u ,u would wonder what structurs of Lobbyism turn up when u dig for it!which made up the most issues of humanity these Days.
When u do ur detailed research in a wide spread of Areas of aspects like Moneyflow,Science,Energyindustries,Weaponindustries,Foodindustries,Entertaiment,Journalism(Media),Physics,archeological,Politics etc.
u will come too the conclusion that everything is controlled by a small group of humans relativ too the hole Humanity.We still live in a Feudal system...only difference too the known "History" too today is that the peopel back then knewd their place.The first Revolution was done by Printing Press the 2nd is done by the Internet...
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 13, 2013, 02:04:51 pm
I would suggest you apply the NWO as in New Word Order because even though your blabbering would be uninteresting anyway, reading your sentences is like searching a book in a shuffled library.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: SixThumbs on June 13, 2013, 03:56:39 pm
Maybe he's just trying to avoid his communications being monitored.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Erasmas on June 13, 2013, 04:22:19 pm
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Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: BlindGuy on June 13, 2013, 06:46:07 pm
It's easy to settle back and claim that's inevitable and there's no real freedom, but you are free to change it if you're an American citizen. You just need to make enough friends. Friends who whine a lot.

no. This is the biggest phallacy written here.


No amount of political pressure, civilian protest, budget cuts, etc, will stop the behemoth that is running the world you live in. You have no rights. No power. You just won't EVER be able to change ANYTHING of any meaningful value. There are too many vested interests. Too many of the ruling class of your country have invested too many generations into becoming the ruling class. They will never allow anything to interfere with their ambitions. I honestly cannot understand WHY you continue to tell yourself that you have any say. You werent born to it. Or maybe YOU were. I don't know who you are related to.

But let's be honest, PLEASE: there is no such thing as democracy in the same location as capitalism. There is no such thing as equality, equal representation, or even freedom while we have a monetary system. I'm not trying to preach the evils of capitalism or something, it is just NOT possible for everyone's best interest to be the same: Those in charge HAVE what they want, and those not in charge CANNOT have they want, or those in charge would no longer have it. The ppl who make descisions in the NATO aligned countries were never elected, they are not answerable to the public, and to pretend that the politicians you elected get to decide policy is just literally lying to youself. You do what your told, when your told to do it, or you can opt out and go be self sufficiant in a lost valley somewhere. It's not your society. Short of a revolution, there is no way to loosen the control of the power set. But, as we can clearly see from the word: revolutions are just that: a circular motion -> the most u can ever hope to achieve is a short period of time before those who were in control before are in control again. Maybe with a different puppet waved in front of you. Maybe not.

Untill you all stop craving bread and circuses, that's how life is. I am not criticizing it: It works. But when I see people purposefully telling themselves that things are not this way it makes me sick for humanity. Ffs grow up.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 14, 2013, 12:41:44 am
no. This is the biggest phallacy written here.


No amount of political pressure, civilian protest, budget cuts, etc, will stop the behemoth that is running the world you live in. You have no rights. No power. You just won't EVER be able to change ANYTHING of any meaningful value. There are too many vested interests. Too many of the ruling class of your country have invested too many generations into becoming the ruling class. They will never allow anything to interfere with their ambitions. I honestly cannot understand WHY you continue to tell yourself that you have any say. You werent born to it. Or maybe YOU were. I don't know who you are related to.

But let's be honest, PLEASE: there is no such thing as democracy in the same location as capitalism. There is no such thing as equality, equal representation, or even freedom while we have a monetary system. I'm not trying to preach the evils of capitalism or something, it is just NOT possible for everyone's best interest to be the same: Those in charge HAVE what they want, and those not in charge CANNOT have they want, or those in charge would no longer have it. The ppl who make descisions in the NATO aligned countries were never elected, they are not answerable to the public, and to pretend that the politicians you elected get to decide policy is just literally lying to youself. You do what your told, when your told to do it, or you can opt out and go be self sufficiant in a lost valley somewhere. It's not your society. Short of a revolution, there is no way to loosen the control of the power set. But, as we can clearly see from the word: revolutions are just that: a circular motion -> the most u can ever hope to achieve is a short period of time before those who were in control before are in control again. Maybe with a different puppet waved in front of you. Maybe not.

Untill you all stop craving bread and circuses, that's how life is. I am not criticizing it: It works. But when I see people purposefully telling themselves that things are not this way it makes me sick for humanity. Ffs grow up.

So, who are those mysterious people in control of everything ?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kalam on June 14, 2013, 02:35:55 am
no. This is the biggest phallacy written here.


No amount of political pressure, civilian protest, budget cuts, etc, will stop the behemoth that is running the world you live in. You have no rights. No power. You just won't EVER be able to change ANYTHING of any meaningful value. There are too many vested interests. Too many of the ruling class of your country have invested too many generations into becoming the ruling class. They will never allow anything to interfere with their ambitions. I honestly cannot understand WHY you continue to tell yourself that you have any say. You werent born to it. Or maybe YOU were. I don't know who you are related to.

But let's be honest, PLEASE: there is no such thing as democracy in the same location as capitalism. There is no such thing as equality, equal representation, or even freedom while we have a monetary system. I'm not trying to preach the evils of capitalism or something, it is just NOT possible for everyone's best interest to be the same: Those in charge HAVE what they want, and those not in charge CANNOT have they want, or those in charge would no longer have it. The ppl who make descisions in the NATO aligned countries were never elected, they are not answerable to the public, and to pretend that the politicians you elected get to decide policy is just literally lying to youself. You do what your told, when your told to do it, or you can opt out and go be self sufficiant in a lost valley somewhere. It's not your society. Short of a revolution, there is no way to loosen the control of the power set. But, as we can clearly see from the word: revolutions are just that: a circular motion -> the most u can ever hope to achieve is a short period of time before those who were in control before are in control again. Maybe with a different puppet waved in front of you. Maybe not.

Untill you all stop craving bread and circuses, that's how life is. I am not criticizing it: It works. But when I see people purposefully telling themselves that things are not this way it makes me sick for humanity. Ffs grow up.

I would love a big phallus.

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

It's our lot to typically justify what we believe with reason, and attempting to take a step back to perceive things as they are is impossible. Still, I fully believe meta-thought- that is, thinking (I like the color orange. Why, I ask myself? I like Newcastle United. Why? I believe in being able to say anything I want...why? Be as thorough and honest with yourself as you can) about your thoughts helps with that process.

 Get the best answer you can. Labeling a modern economic system as completely capitalist, socialist, or otherwise is misinformation. That's the kind of thing that allows people (you,me, and your cousin Sara- not some amorphous group of bankers or whatever) to more easily convince others to do whatever the fuck it is they want them to do, and, if you're like me, that means whatever serves myself and those I love best. If, in order to secure that, I need to work with a wider group of people in order ensure that, then I'm going to do it.

It's like this. Society, and the institutions within it, are built on faith. You trust your Doctor to know what's best for your health- or at least know better than you, don't you? That's what she's chosen to do with her life- practice medicine. I trust you to do whatever it is you do best. Whatever web of knowledge and skill you've chosen to devote your life to.

Life is built on this exchange, and if we can't trust our governments, they won't be successful as anything other than something with a kleptocratic bent. It's on us to keep them honest.

I do agree that no society is equal, especially not anything that embraces merit in the ways ours has. Thing is, it's still possible to for most people to become whatever they want to become. Yes, you might have to become one of "those in charge" in order to have everything but there's absolutely nothing stopping some poor kid from Detroit from becoming a Congressman one day. There are many hurdles yes, and he won't have the same opportunities as some rich kid who's parents ensure he's taught at least three 'marketable for college and high-end job' skills by the time he's eighteen, but it's possible and it happens every couple of years.

I guess we're getting to the point, though, after all that needless exposition. Our politicians don't have power and some shadowy group does, eh? Who? YOU have the truth?

Are you going to tell me that we've all been duped by Satan and you've got the secret to everything good and the after life?

No, I know you're not some hardcore religionist. Judging by reading a single post, I'd guess you're an atheist.

That's arrogance, bud. Thinking you've got the world figured in a circular argument. Not hubris. Not confidence. Just blind arrogance.

Change the world, or tell yourself you can't because somewhere deep inside, you know you don't have the will to.

Okay... why?

That's some fucked up thinking you got there. You go from not caring to "turn urself in or i call the police." Because of...? Why is there such a huge difference between "no definitive proof but strongly suspect" and "definitive proof"?

Cynicism makes idealism sweeter. I'd choose to ignore it, much like choose to ignore the starving children I've come across in my life unless they were somehow related (not just familial bonds, but relational bonds, such as knowing someone's name and holding conversations with them) to me. If I didn't know for sure that my dad was killing people, I wouldn't really care. If I did know, I would.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Sir_Hans on June 14, 2013, 07:08:57 am
If ANYONE thinks that presidential elections are "democratic" or worth voting for, I suggest you look into the yale university club dubbed "skull & bones".

When bush jr, ran for his second presidential term, he was running against now and then senator john f kerry. Not only was he a yale classmate, he was a skull and bones member in the same class year as bush. A fact which neither of them has denied when being questioned on camera/ on the record.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

But honestly, this is just the tip of the iceberg, skull and bones is just one quill on the porcupine which controls most, if not all, of the world.... one factual example of many, on why you nor your children have any chance of living in a truly democratic society... not just one which just calls itself thus.



Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on June 14, 2013, 07:26:31 am
NSA Stasi is explained by an expert here

http://www.infowars.com/exclusive-insider-speaks-out-on-nsa-spying/
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Leshma on June 14, 2013, 12:29:25 pm
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Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: [ptx] on June 14, 2013, 12:47:19 pm
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Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 14, 2013, 01:26:48 pm
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Except you can replace all those humans by computers with little to no understanding of semantics.

This is a big part of my specialization right there. Trust me, it's funny coming to a course that was introduced as "how to sell more things ?".
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Erasmas on June 14, 2013, 03:14:28 pm
Incredible interview with Edward Snowden:

http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=ce3a18468135 (http://www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=ce3a18468135)
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: SixThumbs on June 14, 2013, 03:42:10 pm
Everything I've come across is either making jokes about the systems government/private entities have set up or accusing Snowden of being a hero/traitor/whistleblower/spy. He released this information in hope that it would spark a public debate and instead everyone just wants to personify the actor by focusing on the choices he made instead of people opening public discourse on what this means to civil liberties; which seems to be let's make a bunch of voyeuristic jokes.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 14, 2013, 04:28:07 pm
I'm a cynic, nothing I do will change the system of government we have in place.  The election system is fucked up, without changing this, we will never have real change.  We also have so much pork in the bills that are passed, that we can't be fiscally responsible.  But that's done on purpose, because politician's pet projects get funded by being buried in other bills.  Corporations write laws and regulations for their own industries, and politicians have a revolving door in almost any industry of their choosing when they get out of politics.  It's a one big circle jerk of legal kickbacks and bribery in exchange for tax loopholes and lack of regulation/oversight. 

Unless we stop arguing with each other and focus on the overlords who rule the country, we'll never see real change.  And we'll never stop arguing with each other about social issues.   

Carlin (as usual) sums it up perfectly...I encourage you to watch:



Another one I really like about him talking about "rights" (aka you have no rights):  Fast forward to 4:20 (seriously)


Paraphrasing:  "If you still think you have rights, go to Wikipedia and search for Japanese Americans 1942 and learn all about your precious fucking 'rights'"
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Swaggart on June 14, 2013, 04:41:52 pm
Wow Kalam, you wrote all that just to make an assumption that a person is atheist, and then dismiss him for arrogance based on this assumption? Yes, you wrote other things, but it was all in an effort to chastise him for not believing what you believe (and even then, you can't be sure he isn't in seminary). I won't get into a religious debate because arguing with religious people is like trying to herd cats. I would just like to recommend you not casually dismiss people for having different beliefs than you, especially when basing it off an assumption.

I will address this though:

Quote
Our politicians don't have power and some shadowy group does, eh? Who? YOU have the truth?

Financial oligarchs. It's not a big secret. It's the people who have political power simply because they have the wealth to buy it. This is not something that only happens in Russia, China or India. Watch this, although I have a feeling you will dismiss it for "arrogance."

Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 14, 2013, 05:52:53 pm
If atheists are arrogant, religious people have the fault of not being arrogant enough. Simply believing in things that are not disprovable is silly and spurious but at least it is intellectually honest. Dismissing the knowledge of humanity because it is arrogant is not the same thing.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Nessaj on June 14, 2013, 07:12:52 pm
Need more funny pictures in this thread.

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Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kalam on June 14, 2013, 07:52:52 pm
You're right- that would be ridiculous. I should've phrased it better. I didn't mean he's wrong because he's an atheist- I was drawing a comparison between hardcore fundamentalists and conspiracy theorists, and as an aside, acknowledging that I don't believe he's a fundamentalist Christian/Buddhist/Muslim/Whatever. I'm saying that being a conspiracy theorist comes from a certain kind of arrogance.


I guess we're getting to the point, though, after all that needless exposition. Our politicians don't have power and some shadowy group does, eh? Who? YOU have the truth? 

That's arrogance, bud. Thinking you've got the world figured in a circular argument. Not hubris. Not confidence. Just blind arrogance.

Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 14, 2013, 08:05:28 pm
Yeah?  Well you come from a certain kind of arrogance.

Talking about your dad's penis in your mom's vagina
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 14, 2013, 08:16:31 pm
Really that got me a warning?  I didn't insult you Kalam, grow some thicker skin (that's not an insult either...)

CrazyCracka420,

You have received a warning for insulting other users. Please cease these activities and abide by the forum rules otherwise we will take further action.

Regards,
The Melee Gaming Team.


Obama as a senator from Illinois observed in 2007 that Bush's terrorist surveillance was one that “puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we provide.”

But just the other day he said: "you can’t have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience."

Since when can anyone ever assure your 100% security? And why his change of opinion? Oh he's in power now...gotcha.

Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: BlindGuy on June 14, 2013, 08:24:56 pm
I wrote a masive essay, including drawing on my past with examples, took about 30 minutes. But then I realised: 15 years I spent telling people how it is didn't change anyones complacency to being ruled by others for the rulers personal gain. Why would me writing here do it? Humanity blunts the instruments of change, by wearing down emotional resistance of people like me, to the point that I just say:

Hey, if you are happy to live as you are, like a mushroom, in the dark and fed on shit, why should I bother to try to help you anymore Kalam.

I don't mean it in any way to offend you. If you are convinced what you think is right, and more importantly, are HAPPY with your beliefs, I won't try to change you.

You ARE wrong, but I see what IS there, and it makes me UNHAPPY everyday. So of the two of us, you are probably better off.

BTW: I'm not an atheist: Either 1/ there is no god, in which case I am very sad that ppl still use him/her/it/them as an excuse to propogate hate or 2/ There is a god/s, in which case a/ WTF are they doing? and b/ Why the fuck would they care if I believe in them or not, they are already God. If there is an afterlife/heaven/hell, I will find out when the time comes. It seems massively conclusive that there is no god, but if there are, and what everyone has written is correct: I will be judged by my actions and moral choices, in which case I am sitting pretty. But I don't do what I consider morally right for some reward afterwards: I do it because it is right.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on June 14, 2013, 08:49:02 pm
Irrelevant mess about power abuse:
(click to show/hide)
Relevant mess about power abuse:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kalam on June 14, 2013, 10:55:26 pm
I wrote a masive essay, including drawing on my past with examples, took about 30 minutes. But then I realised: 15 years I spent telling people how it is didn't change anyones complacency to being ruled by others for the rulers personal gain. Why would me writing here do it? Humanity blunts the instruments of change, by wearing down emotional resistance of people like me, to the point that I just say:

Hey, if you are happy to live as you are, like a mushroom, in the dark and fed on shit, why should I bother to try to help you anymore Kalam.

I don't mean it in any way to offend you. If you are convinced what you think is right, and more importantly, are HAPPY with your beliefs, I won't try to change you.

You ARE wrong, but I see what IS there, and it makes me UNHAPPY everyday. So of the two of us, you are probably better off.

BTW: I'm not an atheist: Either 1/ there is no god, in which case I am very sad that ppl still use him/her/it/them as an excuse to propogate hate or 2/ There is a god/s, in which case a/ WTF are they doing? and b/ Why the fuck would they care if I believe in them or not, they are already God. If there is an afterlife/heaven/hell, I will find out when the time comes. It seems massively conclusive that there is no god, but if there are, and what everyone has written is correct: I will be judged by my actions and moral choices, in which case I am sitting pretty. But I don't do what I consider morally right for some reward afterwards: I do it because it is right.

 I'm never completely convinced of the conclusions I come to, so share it with us. There's no point putting time and thought into something if you're not going to share it.

More on this specific subject, from a different perspective: http://english.cntv.cn/20130614/103159.shtml (http://english.cntv.cn/20130614/103159.shtml)

Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Angantyr on June 16, 2013, 12:19:57 pm
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/14/the-real-war-on-reality/?hp

Recommended article on the rise and record of malpractice of private intelligence firms hired by Big Business and government, by Peter Ludlow, professor of philosophy at Northwestern University.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Macropus on June 16, 2013, 11:06:25 pm
Russian government can invade privacy better and faster than USA government can. Suck it, losers. :P
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on June 17, 2013, 12:51:01 am
Russian government can invade privacy better and faster than USA government can. Suck it, losers. :P

Russian government can invade your home and make you dissappear, I don't think the USA do this very often on their territory.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Tovi on July 03, 2013, 10:55:49 am
No, just in others territories...  :shock:




bomb terrorism support snowden bomb terrorism 9/11 is falseflag op bomb terrorism destroy the empire bomb terrorism Guantanamo bomb terrorism Al Qaeda is CIA bomb terrorism support snowden bomb terrorism freedom people revolution bomb terrorism yankee go home bomb terrorism

HELLO SUCKERS
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Erasmas on July 10, 2013, 04:43:44 pm
Another funny one:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Berserkadin on July 11, 2013, 10:23:16 pm
So, where in the internet have USA located oil-deposits?
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on July 11, 2013, 10:42:12 pm
So, where in the internet have USA located oil-deposits?

That's so 2004

hell people born in 2004 are nine years old
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Berserkadin on July 11, 2013, 11:29:01 pm
That's so 2004

hell people born in 2004 are nine years old
Still 9 years left until they will start starring in pornos  :(
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kafein on July 11, 2013, 11:34:29 pm
I want my cousins to say underage D:


that might be taken wrong
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Gmnotutoo on July 11, 2013, 11:39:02 pm
That's so 2004

hell people born in 2004 are nine years old

You clearly are not American. Oil is never old, oil is forever. We will liberate it from you dirty blasphemers.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Kalam on July 12, 2013, 12:13:52 am
You clearly are not American. Oil is never old, oil is forever. We will liberate it from you dirty blasphemers.

And give it to China gleefully.
Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: Erasmas on September 11, 2013, 05:25:39 pm
Old topic, new jokes (or not???)  :D

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: US goverment, Invading the internet's privacy? You DECIDE!
Post by: zagibu on September 11, 2013, 07:02:10 pm
Shinies for the sheep.
Bullets for the others.