cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Michael on May 21, 2013, 03:32:11 pm

Title: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Michael on May 21, 2013, 03:32:11 pm
Less magic - more realism

1) Weight

a) TES V: Skyrim
aa) Steel Plate Armor: 38
bb) steel shield: 12
cc) steel greatsword: 17

b) crpg:
aa) Plate Armor: 23,6
bb) steel shield: 12,5
cc) German/ Danish greatsword: 2,5

I hope you can do the maths yourself..........

If not, here is the summary:

Shield is quite realistic.

Heavy Armor is about half as light as it actually should be.
Result in-game: Tincans outrun peasants

Two-handed weapons are about 6-7 times as light as the should be.
Result: Yeah yeah yeah I swing my huge sword (same for polearms) around like it was a pencil or something.

2) Nudge nonsense
You cant bash with your shield, but the other guy can bash with his free arm/ hand right through your block, break your block and stagger you? What a  bullshit. 

3) Kick-paralysis area effect
Horseshit
See my other topic if its not obvious how silly it is to perform a kick that outreaches many 1-handed-weapons, and paralysize your opponent even through his shield.

4) For some weird reason in this game you need to learn (= invest skill points) how to pick up a shield.
But you were born with the knowledge (= no skill investment needed) to use a really huge weapon or ranged weapon. Does this make any sense at all? No, I really dont think so.

5) It is a lot more difficult to learn to wield a huge weapon or to handle a bow than shooting a crossbow or desperately spamming a one-hander.
Crossbow already has its bonus (no power draw needed).
With the incoming wpf-changes, 2h and polearm wpf should cost more than 1h.
Example: 50 wpf investment = gains 50 1h or 40 pole or 30 2h.
Something like that.


Discuss folks, discuss!
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Teeth on May 21, 2013, 03:40:55 pm
I'd say cRPG gets closer to reality than Skyrim with those numbers.

Anyway, Michael, have another -1.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Panos on May 21, 2013, 03:41:15 pm
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Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Matey on May 21, 2013, 03:55:04 pm
Less crpg, more skyrim. Pretty sure that is the thread title you meant.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Tore on May 21, 2013, 04:04:51 pm
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Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Paul on May 21, 2013, 04:06:19 pm
Oh well, using Skyrim as a reference for realism is pretty innovative. I give you that. However TES obviously applies a weight unit that is close to the Imperial pound(lb) which is less than half of the SI masterrace kilogramm(kg) Warband (afaik) uses.  Sword weights are pretty realistic  in cRPG while the shield is probably too heavy compared to irl - because of balancing(turboshielder) reasons.

I also think you are either retarded or a very good troll.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Oberyn on May 21, 2013, 04:08:48 pm
I also think you are either retarded or a very good troll.

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Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 21, 2013, 04:10:29 pm
So you think a great sword weighed almost half of what a plate body armor weighed?  I call shenanigans. 

This is Empirical numbers here:

Great swords weighed (by my #'s) 4-8 lbs
Plate armor weighed between 40 and 80 lbs.   

Fine I'll translate:

Armor:  18 kg - 36kg
Sword: 1.8 kg to 3.6 kg

I'm guessing the high end of my #'s are pretty high, and were not the norm.

If you're going to make shit threads, at least put them in the correct place (This would go under Suggestions, and then the sub-forum, Realism).

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Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Tibe on May 21, 2013, 04:11:55 pm
*....blablabla give me -1, im so cool troll blablabla, cause I will never get alot of +1's anyway, cause I can never make a proper argument anyway, so now im just feeding on your -1's*

Discuss folks, discuss!

Your right to make threads(or even posts) should be stripped from you.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Rebelyell on May 21, 2013, 06:51:30 pm
anyway most of "realism" discusions on our forum is more clouse to that thread than to RL
soo yea.....
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Glyph on May 21, 2013, 07:03:46 pm
If the weight is in pounds, the greatswords should weigh around 5 lbs. If it's in kg, it's fine. This great faking thing, weighs 6 lbs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hfLZozBVpM
I would know about the weight of swords because I actaully practice swordfighting, think before you post and certainly don't post about stuff you don't know anything about.
Again, if the weight is in pounds armor should be twice as heavy, but if it's in kg it's just as heavy as it actually is in rl.

Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Kafein on May 21, 2013, 07:06:50 pm
daily - for michael
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Necrorave on May 21, 2013, 07:11:28 pm
He forgot to mention shouts, its not magic.  It is just an ability that the Dragonborn has. 

Also, since Crpg should be more like Skyrim (Obviously, have you seen those graphics?) we should have the ability to persuade our enemies not to kill us.  Press Mouse3 when you are facing an opponet and enter an unblockable conversation with them.  Make it so they have to choose uncomfortable small talk options like the weather and their favorite Rageball Team in order to help them forget that they are trying to kill each other.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Mammonist on May 21, 2013, 07:14:57 pm
The weight values might be true but what michael probably means is the way it works in the game itself. cRPG has no 1:1 physics to real life so even if the weight value is the same the ingame character won't swing a 3kg sword around as someone would irl, not that that would be easy to emulate or sth. Michael if you want realism in killing people then do that shit for real. Lol what am I even doing here asking for -1's
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Duster on May 21, 2013, 07:19:45 pm
I think Michael's well on his way to a 'mad cuz bad' title...
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Glyph on May 21, 2013, 07:29:21 pm
The weight values might be true but what michael probably means is the way it works in the game itself. cRPG has no 1:1 physics to real life so even if the weight value is the same the ingame character won't swing a 3kg sword around as someone would irl, not that that would be easy to emulate or sth. Michael if you want realism in killing people then do that shit for real. Lol what am I even doing here asking for -1's
You can't make the game as realistic that swinging a sword ingame is the same as swinging a sword in rl, the attacks, parry's, blocks, steps and the other footwork are way to complicated to simulate. If you really want that though, like me, try my sport: HEMA (European Historical Martial Arts) practiced all around the world. If you want to do something asian, try that, but you won't get to smack people in the face with steel weapons like in my sport  :lol:

EDIT: clips of the sport HEMA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Umi_HUoLdl0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM9PdEBiEFQ
And a last one, stage combat, so this is show but still cool to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh40iOzMYXw
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on May 21, 2013, 07:32:33 pm
Please, don't remove more magic from CRPG. My spellbook is already gimped to hell after they removed Locust Swarm and increased the mana cost on Vatuan's Unerring Arrow. Bring back ladders! Bring back Summon Outsider! I want my game back!  :mad:
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Gmnotutoo on May 21, 2013, 08:01:23 pm
Please, don't remove more magic from CRPG. My spellbook is already gimped to hell after they removed Locust Swarm and increased the mana cost on Vatuan's Unerring Arrow. Bring back ladders! Bring back Summon Outsider! I want my game back!  :mad:

The community wants more magic, just look here. http://forum.meleegaming.com/realism-discussion/magic/
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Matey on May 21, 2013, 08:30:16 pm
The weird thing is that if you ignore the retarded comparison to skyrim as a example of realism... The rest of the complaints aren't so dumb. If only you didn't completely discredit yourself by referencing skyrim for "realism".
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Radament on May 21, 2013, 08:58:10 pm
+1 because you are a misunderstood genius.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Bobthehero on May 21, 2013, 09:04:50 pm
Crazy, those numbers are stupid high for a sword.

OP is a fucking retard, deserves to see all posts in bright yellow. Or be hung by the feet.

I went to the Montreal Medieval Company, stand the other day, they had a longsword that weighted about 2.4 fucking pounds. That's lighter than my arming sword that caps at 3 pounds.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Vodner on May 21, 2013, 09:13:59 pm
I'm curious as to how you would make a 17lb sword. Fill it with lead?
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 21, 2013, 09:16:00 pm
I'm curious as to how you would make a 17lb sword. Fill it with lead?

That's one thing I didn't ever like about TES games, the weapons didn't have proportionally correct weight compared to the other items (the armor seems relatively accurate, if not close enough).  Even the 1h swords were like 10lbs (on the light end) in those games.


What being filled with lead may look like:

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Bobthehero on May 21, 2013, 09:16:56 pm
http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html

See the pink part.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Teeth on May 21, 2013, 09:40:00 pm
http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html

See the pink part.
lbs/cubic inch as a density unit.

Gawd merica
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Paul on May 21, 2013, 09:51:00 pm
1 barrel = 42 gallon = 9702 inch^3

America is really hatin' on their engineers.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Matey on May 21, 2013, 09:57:27 pm
1 barrel = 42 gallon = 9702 inch^3

America is really hatin' on their engineers.
I could be wrong... But I think their scientists and maybe e some engineers actually use metric these days.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Paul on May 21, 2013, 10:01:13 pm
Actually in PCB design(electronics) we still use mil which is an inch based unit, forcing constant mm-mil conversion shit. Thanks America.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Vodner on May 21, 2013, 10:02:35 pm
lbs/cubic inch as a density unit.

Gawd merica
One thing I dislike about the imperial system, is that pounds can both be used as a unit of force, and as a unit of mass (as in this case). Sometimes there is nothing but context to differentiate between the two uses. This is especially annoying when there is a perfectly good imperial unit (the slug) for measuring mass.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Matey on May 21, 2013, 10:03:38 pm
One thing I dislike about the imperial system is that pounds can both be used as a unit of force, and as a unit of mass (as in this case), with nothing but context to differentiate between the two uses. This is especially annoying when there is a perfectly good imperial unit (the slug) for measuring mass.
Or a perfectly good metric system that isn't retarded.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Vodner on May 21, 2013, 10:04:52 pm
Or a perfectly good metric system that isn't retarded.
I live in Canadaland, so I'm stuck having to use both metric and imperial for my field of work.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Jarold on May 21, 2013, 10:05:20 pm
That's one thing I didn't ever like about TES games, the weapons didn't have proportionally correct weight compared to the other items (the armor seems relatively accurate, if not close enough).  Even the 1h swords were like 10lbs (on the light end) in those games.

Most likely so that players can't sell 60 iron swords that they picked up and carried.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Matey on May 21, 2013, 10:06:02 pm
I live in Canadaland, so I'm stuck having to use both metric and imperial for my field of work.
I also live in Canada and never need to use imperial, hooray!
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on May 21, 2013, 11:02:52 pm
Less talking - more raiding
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: dreadnok on May 21, 2013, 11:17:10 pm
I agree with Michael 100 percent you make fun of him and throw around a fucking term like  Imperial pounds. Which is probably some star wars nerd shit. 
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Christo on May 21, 2013, 11:21:03 pm
Less Imperial - More Metric

New thread purpose.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on May 21, 2013, 11:40:26 pm

See the pink part.

That's what she* said!
*you'are mother


I always assume that if a videogame doesn't specifically give a unit of measurement, then the measurements are being given in AU (arbitrary units) that exist only to quantify the stats of the item in question. Weapon length in M&B is supposedly in centimeters, right? Like a pike would be 3m and most swords about 1m?
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Kafein on May 22, 2013, 01:54:04 am
I could be wrong... But I think their scientists and maybe e some engineers actually use metric these days.

Nobody does any serious science using anything but KMS and the occasional field-related oddities (like the eV). Nobody.


Also skyrim units aren't really weight like in Warband. They represent both weight and volume, in a sort of mix that aims to describe how much these objects obstruct your moves.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Joker86 on May 22, 2013, 03:50:08 am
...

I guess a good part of your -1 come simply from personal bias, which is wrong after all.

But still, using Skyrim as reference is so wrong... so wrong...

Considering that you also opened a topic about creating a build for some Skyrim goblins, and looing at your avatar, I can see that...

... you are really hooked on Skyrim
... you are either not really smart or a troll. (I can't believe I agree with Paul  :lol: ).


Usually when in doubt if troll or stupid, I decide for troll, because people usually are smarter than you think, because you (= every one of us) like to think your are smarter than the others, although more often than not you aren't. But when I think back to the times when you made those topics where you tried to convince people that plated lancer on plated charger was not OP and the nerfs the upkeep bestowed upon that... "class"... should be reverted, I really get in doubt if it is trolling on purpose.

In case it was not:

The fact that real life swords were light as shit and thus Syrim being wrong let aside, you can't approach a game like this. You can't just pick some things which bother you and have them changed, because a lot of other things are influenced by that change in succession. You always have to think about it being balanced or not. There have always to be tradeoffs and the like, in whatever you suggest. And the most important thing is balance, and no change should be made at the cost of balance. Things might be unrealistic, yes, but I think there are only few things which would be more difficult to represent in a game than realistic swordfighting. Actually I can't really think of anything, except of very similar things like dancing or sports.

I don't really want to say you are stupid, I can't judge this, I don't now you really. All I can say is that your posts lack of having it thought through well, which is more likely to be the result of lazyness or missing will to work yourself into a certain topic (like game design), than being the result of low intelligence. That's why I'd like to suggest to you to think things to the end, and to always consider all aspects, especially those of gameplay, balance and choice (things you like to forget). If you take those into concern, and base your future suggestions on those, I am sure the response won't be as devastating as it is now.

To show my good will no -1 from me.  :wink:

Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Bobthehero on May 22, 2013, 05:56:13 am
You really can't just type a single short post can you  :P
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Joker86 on May 22, 2013, 08:21:14 pm
You really can't just type a single short post can you  :P

No.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Bobthehero on May 22, 2013, 08:24:20 pm
Ffffffffffffffff-
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: sF_Guardian on May 22, 2013, 09:04:42 pm
Apart from disagreeing with some of Jokers thought because of having different values I have to say his statements are always well thought and pointet
out with a clear red line and not much room for misunderstandings. I like that way more than the short, specific statements which are mostly postet
in this forum (just like I usually write).
Keep it on Joker, don't surrender to jelly voices ;-)
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Michael on May 26, 2013, 12:49:19 pm

I also think you are either retarded or a very good troll.


Und Du meinst, Dir stünde es zu, über mich zu urteilen?

Du magst ganz gut sein, Knöpfe zu drücken, wobei die Frage, wieviel Anteil Dein superschnelles Internet an Deinem 'Skill' hat vermutlich auf ewig unbeantwortet bleiben wird.
Du magst auch in dieser Community der König sein. Das macht Dich aber noch nicht superschlau, oder überhaupt nur normal-durchschnittlich intelligent, da diese Community zu weiten Teilen aus überwiegend geistig minderbemittelten Kindern, Arbeitslosen und Pseudo-Endlosstudenten besteht, die in ihrem Leben erst noch was erreichen müssen.

Die Wahrscheinlichkeit, dass sich ein Planet wie die Erde entwickelt, liegt bei etwa 0,000000000001 %.
Die Wahrscheinlichkeit, dass sich dann noch ein Lebewesen wie der Mensch entwickelt, liegt bei etwa 0,000000000000000000000000001 %.
Die Wahrscheinlichkeit, dass das Rohmaterial für den Urknall sich aus dem Nichts entwickelt hat, ist (beinahe) 0.
Dagegen ist es so unwahrscheinlich nicht, dass eine oder mehrere Wesenheiten außerhalb von Zeit und Raum nach unserem Verständnis existieren und die Sache, aus welchen Motiven auch immer, ins Rollen gebracht haben.

Wenn Dein Verstand nicht ausreicht, um dies zu verstehen, dann beeindrucke die Deppen nur weiter mit Deinem 'whistle for atheism' und zeige ihnen wie 'mature' Du doch bist.

Aber nur weil Du etwas nicht verstehst, muss es nicht auch gleich falsch sein.

Ganz sicher gibt es Dir nicht das Recht, mich (oder sonst jemanden) herabzuwürdigen und persönlich zu beleidigen.

Das gilt auch für meine Vorschläge crpg betreffend.

Aber am besten 'bannst' Du mich einfach aus dem Forum.
Für eine Entschuldigung traue ich Dir ohnehin nicht die nötige menschliche Größe zu, und die andere Witzfigur hat mich in-game eh schon gebannt, weil sich mein schwarzes Pferd nicht in Luft aufgelöst hat, als er mir in den Weg gezickzackt ist.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: [ptx] on May 26, 2013, 12:54:26 pm
Google translate:
Quote
And you think you would be there to judge me?

You may be well enough to press buttons, the question of how much share your super-fast Internet at your 'skill' has will probably remain forever unanswered.
You may be the king in this community. But that does not make you even super smart, or even just normal-average intelligence, since this community is made up largely of predominantly intellectual less privileged children, the unemployed and pseudo-continuous students who have yet to achieve something in their lives.

The probability that a planet like the Earth developed, is about 0.000000000001%.
The likelihood that then develops a creature as man, is about 0.000000000000000000000000001%.
The probability that the raw material has been developed for the big bang out of nowhere, is (almost) 0
However, it is not improbable that one or more entities exist outside of time and space as we understand it and the thing that have made ​​whatever motives, the ball rolling.

If your mind is not enough to understand this, then impress the idiots just continue with your 'whistle for atheism' and show them how 'mature' but you are.

But just because you do not understand something, it does not have to be equally wrong.

Certainly there are not you the right to me (or anyone else) to denigrate and personally insulting.

This applies also for my suggestions concerning CRPG.

But best 'banish' You simply me from the forum.
For an apology I do not trust you anyway not necessary to human size, and the other a figure of fun anyway has banned me in-game because my black horse has not vanished into thin air when he is gezickzackt me in the way.

Never change, Michael, this is why we love you. -1 well deserved :lol:
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Paul on May 26, 2013, 07:18:51 pm
Oh god, I almost forgot about "whistle for atheism".
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Joker86 on May 26, 2013, 07:33:32 pm
That translation is surprisingly good  :shock:
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: [ptx] on May 26, 2013, 07:38:47 pm
Blanket ban atheists!
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Oberyn on May 26, 2013, 08:15:38 pm
I asked Paul what this "whistle for atheism" thing was about and only got the tantalizing response that it had something to do with admin drama. Is there something more to it than Michael flying off at the handle because he's obviously religious and it "offended" him?
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: [ptx] on May 26, 2013, 08:21:41 pm
Back when he (by accident) had gotten admin, he banned someone for typing in chat "Whistle for atheism".

Lulz were had.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Algarn on May 26, 2013, 08:24:39 pm
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renown infamy whore  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: sF_Guardian on May 26, 2013, 11:34:48 pm
(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Molly on May 27, 2013, 08:51:32 am
Actually in PCB design(electronics) we still use mil which is an inch based unit, forcing constant mm-mil conversion shit. Thanks America.
Can't think of any design software that won't let you work with mm, not to mention that every datasheet has mm next to inch in their package info nowadays...
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Kafein on May 28, 2013, 05:04:26 am
Whistle for Allah, cause the probability that there exists a motive behind the world as we know it and that this motive is what humans out of all the living things in some parts of planet earth started to describe with books written by humans during their 7th century of the julian calendar is very high.

Now I know Michael is more stupid than I thought he was.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 28, 2013, 07:07:09 pm
We already know why humans were put on Earth...plastic...


One of my favorite Carlin rants
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Clockworkkiller on May 29, 2013, 02:21:29 am
If this is gonna be more like skyrim, I demand duel-wielding, khajiit/cat furries, more knee shots with arrows (get on it my old friendchers) and lightning bolts.

Once these are all implemented, the c-rpg will be gworious

Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Kafein on May 29, 2013, 02:36:17 am
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Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: karasu on May 29, 2013, 02:41:02 am
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Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: LordLargos on May 29, 2013, 04:58:22 am
The voting results took longer to load than reading the post.

-The only positive thing I got out of this is shield weight needs to be decreased. I could strap four longswords to my arm and it would weigh less than a heavy round.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 29, 2013, 05:06:22 am
Did enjoy, would read again.
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: Korgoth on May 29, 2013, 06:37:20 am
Do your balls hang low? Do they swing to and fro?
Can you tie 'em in a knot? Can you tie 'em in a bow?
Do you get a funny feeling when they're hanging from the ceiling?
oh you'll never be a Sailor if your balls hang low
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: peter_afca7 on May 29, 2013, 08:21:04 am
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congratulations you deserve it
Title: Re: Less magic - more realism
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 29, 2013, 10:30:16 am
Why are you even playing cRPG if you have so much to whine and complain about? Go play your "perfect" and realistic Skyrim so we don't have to see more of your posts.