cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tanken on May 05, 2013, 10:50:09 pm

Title: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tanken on May 05, 2013, 10:50:09 pm
So lately, me and a couple of friends have been trying a bunch of games, but none of them stick. We are looking for an MMO (RPG preferably) to Replace cRPG or at least give us an alternative.

Some Requirements:
Must have a lot of persistency meaning constantly something to do
Needs a good learning curve and high skill base to be really good
Must be addicting
I like games with micro-markets, ways to do things other than just fighting
A good storyline or roleplay element
Good graphics --> No cartoony or anime looking crap
Good playerbase
PvP, PvE, RvR -- It doesn't matter.


Some games I have played that we didn't like much:
- WoW (just too old and too full of spergs)
- Warthunder (gets really old fast)
- Planetside 2
- APB
- LoL
- Age of Wushu
Added: Path of Exile
and a couple others that I'm sure as soon as they're mentioned, I'll say something.


The way this works:
You can suggest up to 2 games, I'd prefer you include their website, a quick video or a good detailed explanation on why you think I'll like it and your personal opinion of why this game is good. I will check into most games and if I try it out, like it, and stick with it, I'll give you a Loom Point. There will only be 1 Winner, but seeing as this takes a little time I will be keeping this Contest active for 7-10 days to fully evaluate most suggestions.

Please note, the winner is judged accordingly to when they post the suggestion so if two people post the same suggestion--whoever the first to suggest it will win. I will only consider your first 2 game suggestions as official entries, others will be considered but will not be granted a victory.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Lt_Anders on May 05, 2013, 10:52:18 pm
WHY IS THIS IN CRPG GENERAL DISCUSSION?! Is it the WIN LOOMS part?
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on May 05, 2013, 10:52:47 pm
Theres a great little mod for this game made by turkish developers... It had a unique combat system with 4 directional block and attack.

It has a persistant character that you can develop.

Lots of weapons and armour.

Active player base.


Can you guess the name of this mod?


LP PLEASE
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Teeth on May 05, 2013, 10:55:17 pm
Nothing compares, gaming is dead, welcome to the club.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tanken on May 05, 2013, 10:55:36 pm
Quote from: Blueberry Muffin on May 05, 2013, 10:52:47 pm
Theres a great little mod for this game made by turkish developers... It had a unique combat system with 4 directional block and attack.

It has a persistant character that you can develop.

Lots of weapons and armour.

Active player base.


Can you guess the name of this mod?


LP PLEASE

I heard the Developers gave up on that mod and won't fix stuff they break. Same mod?
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Chris_the_Animal on May 05, 2013, 10:56:39 pm
there is nothing to replace crpg...

stay in this superior community and give me your LP
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Ronin on May 05, 2013, 10:57:43 pm
Quote from: Blueberry Muffin on May 05, 2013, 10:52:47 pm
Theres a great little mod for this game made by turkish developers... It had a unique combat system with 4 directional block and attack.

It has a persistant character that you can develop.

Lots of weapons and armour.

Active player base.


Can you guess the name of this mod?


LP PLEASE
The best game you can find fitting this criteria probably.

But if you're looking for something different, like strategy games (and don't mind the very old but stylish graphics)
I suggest:

-HoMM III
-Stronghold Crusader (it has HD version too)

in HoMM you can play it for hours and hours with your friends, and I can assure you won't get bored. It is easy to learn, has basic principles but hard to master. Not to mention it has awesome RP elements as well. You can play it as Multiplayer or Singleplayer. Also you can play it with your friends in the same computer as it's turn based. Or you can just enjoy the campaigns and an endless amount of scenarios. Just wait until you get used to the graphics and you won't be disappointed. I still believe it has stylish graphics even today. Here's a non official link that might be very useful: http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes3/heroesofmightandmagic3iii.shtml


Stronghold Crusader would not be fitting the criteria you listed, but you told me that we can offer 2 games. So I offered it, because I think it is another great game. Some link: http://www.fireflyworlds.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=534&Itemid=1


Edit: If I don't get the looms, that means you have no taste.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: BASNAK on May 05, 2013, 10:58:50 pm
Incoming downvotes.

CoD and BF3
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Brrrak on May 05, 2013, 11:05:10 pm
Wurm Online.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Miwiw on May 05, 2013, 11:07:28 pm
Lord of the Rings Online
MMO
(click to show/hide)

Otherwise some older games:

Baldur's Gate 2
Neverwinter Nights (1 + 2)
Ultima Online ( :D )

Titan Quest
Sacred Underworld

Also check www.gog.com for nice game offers!
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on May 05, 2013, 11:10:48 pm
Guild Wars 2 if you want to play with friends

Some other great games

Tera Online

Verdun game <---- recommend!!!
http://www.verdungame.com/

Archeage - very early game, all in korean so v.steep curve
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Wingthor on May 05, 2013, 11:14:48 pm
Path of Exile. Hack & Slay like diablo 2. All your criteria are fitting for this game. Additionally it is free 2 play and the developers are very hardworking on patching the game.
http://www.pathofexile.com/

And ofc Dark souls. Maybe not as MMOish but definitley worth a look.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Konrax on May 05, 2013, 11:18:12 pm
Path of Exile for sure is a good game.

Let me know if you try it out I will give you my account name so we can play together.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Sniger on May 05, 2013, 11:19:00 pm
currently i think im pretty safe to say that theres (sadly) no MMOs fitting for your description.

i have tried:

fallen earth
star wars the old republic
raiderz
firefall (edit: yesterday they released a 2gb patch(!) and went open beta)
(edit) dungeons & dragons online

all of the above is wow-clone MMOs with minor differences. firefall is the most interesting of the 4 cus its TPS/FPS shooter with jetpacks. but all lack depth and size. after reading miw's post im kinda keen on lotr but on the other hand, im also pretty fed up with grind-games.

theres also the world of tanks-clone "war thunder" but thats not really MMORPG eventho i find it quite amusing in small doses. cant wait for the sea and ground vehicle/battles :D

my recommendation goes to eve online.
 
"whenever someone leave eve to play wow, the collective IQ of both communities increase" :p

i think perhaps eve online is the only TRUE Massive Multiplayer Online-game - games like WoW also claim to be MMO but in reality its "only" 7000-9000 players in the same world/server/realm and then there is loads of realms/servers. eve online is ONE server with like 60k players online in the same world. eve online is a persistent world with a player controlled market: players manufacture and sell. it has been up for over 10 years now. your character does not gain xp by grind but by training (real-time... days, hours, minutes, seconds) the skills you need. been in fleet battles with over 1000 players attending. mindblowing depth. ive played the game (on/off) since 2003 and i still find things that i didnt knew and items i didnt knew existed. the tutorials is without competition the best tuts ive tried in any game whatsoever.

(click to show/hide)
my x-corporation (guild/clan) had this vid made and i think its pretty awesome
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Jarold on May 05, 2013, 11:21:35 pm
I really liked the game Ultima. It sounds really nerdy and it is.... The game cost money now a days but there is a free version which is the best because it isn't ruined by useless crap. The one I will be suggesting is managed by a community and is really great. Its called UO Second Age.

http://www.uosecondage.com/

It's basically an MMORPG although if you play on the free uo second age shard its only like 300 people. You start off slow leveling your character you get money, items, and skills. It's actually a hardcore mmorpg because anyone can kill you out of guard zones and take all your stuff. But it is really enjoyable.

You can trade with npc's and other players. Make money or level skills by mining, blacksmithing, swordfighting, magic etc.

You might nt to read up on the forums before playing to know how to play the game.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tanken on May 05, 2013, 11:22:54 pm
Path of Exile is one I forgot to add to my list. I played through two difficulties of it, it's not bad at all for a F2P but I lost interest in it quickly once it just became about what Loot I had as opposed to playing the game.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Miwiw on May 05, 2013, 11:24:09 pm
LotRO is not directly a grinding game. That's only needed if you really play a lot and don't want to pay a cent. :)
However in high level those deeds are probably needed as well to strenghten your character with more attributes and improved skills. I however wasn't at high level yet so I'm not that sure about it.

btw Star Wars the Old Republic is free 2 play now as well. If you like some nice story you can play it completely for free. I like the story and stuff and enjoyed lvls 1 to 30 before.

Also good for a quick game is Borderlands.

Guild 2.
Civ 4 / 5
SH 2 (dont buy 3rd SH :P )


I played Silkroad Online 2006 - 2009 (and a bit recently) but it's a 100% grinding game, 120 levels currently, you must play 20 hours a day or bot 24/7 to level up after you reached about lvl 60-70. And it's also about money, the item mall is very important.
Typical asian grinding game, however I really enjoyed playing it myself as it's skill system and stuff is really amazing. Community and developer are both shit though. :D
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Arjay on May 05, 2013, 11:32:30 pm
Team Fortress 2
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Son Of Odin on May 05, 2013, 11:34:17 pm
How about you try a game called real life? I've heard it's pretty sweet but haven't tried it out yet :lol:

Meets all the requirements if you just make it so. Now, what did I win?
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Gurnisson on May 05, 2013, 11:35:23 pm
Borderlands 2
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tanken on May 05, 2013, 11:37:52 pm
A lot of these replies basically resemble why I need a new game. The community here is fairly good, but there's far too many ball lords nowadays.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Son Of Odin on May 05, 2013, 11:43:34 pm
Quote from: Tank Burner on May 05, 2013, 11:37:52 pm
A lot of these replies basically resemble why I need a new game. The community here is fairly good, but there's far too many ball lords nowadays.
Heyyy don't get mad at me bro! Don't know about new awesum games but I had to post something :D.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 05, 2013, 11:46:10 pm
EVE
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Gmnotutoo on May 05, 2013, 11:51:11 pm
https://register.perfectworld.com/nw_splash

Neverwinter Online, get your nerd on.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Sniger on May 05, 2013, 11:54:14 pm
elder scrolls online is in beta right now. (i havent got a key yet *sadface*)
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Testicleez on May 06, 2013, 12:06:59 am
Heroin Hero - http://www.kongregate.com/games/barniel/heroin-hero (http://www.kongregate.com/games/barniel/heroin-hero)


I'm waiting for the DayZ standalone to come out though.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Sniger on May 06, 2013, 12:22:53 am
Quote from: Gmnotutoo on May 05, 2013, 11:51:11 pm
https://register.perfectworld.com/nw_splash

Neverwinter Online, get your nerd on.

it is like DDO? dungeons & dragons online

ive always been a fan of D&D but DDO is basicly instances like in guild wars and no "real" open world.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Buriza_do_kyanon on May 06, 2013, 12:58:27 am
Project1999 on the everquest emulator.

http://www.project1999.org/

Still the best mmo, and in the time period before they jumped the shark.

(click to show/hide)

another game? uhhhh CANDY BOX!

http://candies.aniwey.net/ (http://candies.aniwey.net/) (I just beat the dragon)


Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Bullet441 on May 06, 2013, 01:37:33 am
www.warthunder.com (http://www.warthunder.com)

A WW2 to Korean War era dogfighting game, with rpg elements.  Level up, unlock that B17, that MiG-15, or whatever you'd like.  Upgrade your planes with a new engine, new ammo types, etc.  Coming features: tanks and ships, "world war mode" with player controlled planes, tanks, and ships fighting over land.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Miwiw on May 06, 2013, 01:42:24 am
http://www.tribalwars.net/

Browsergame, very time-consuming. Not made for casual players.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 06, 2013, 01:56:16 am
Alright, this is me throwing my hat in

EVE Online
http://www.eveonline.com/ (http://www.eveonline.com/)



What you can do in EVE
Click here for the image
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/eve-wtd.jpg (http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/eve-wtd.jpg)
(click to show/hide)

If any of this sounds interesting, I'd love to actually talk to you on TS or something or send a detailed message of any questions, there is quite a lot to do and it is a lot more then just a "spreadsheet game" like a lot of naysayers claim it is. If you have someone to help you ease into it, there is a lot to discover, and combat is actually pretty complicated especially with manual control in 1 VS 1s.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tot. on May 06, 2013, 02:16:12 am

What is EVE Online (wall of text)
(click to show/hide)

There's a 21 day trial (http://trial.eveonline.com/en/freetrial.aspx) to try it out.


edit. Fucking ToD ninja, I was looking for that video too long.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: sexthriller on May 06, 2013, 02:34:13 am
Try DayZ or wait for the standalone(which will probably be in 6 months). I figure you can fork out the $20 dollars or so for it, it is a blast if you get into the right server with friends. I would recommend the billy mays servers or laughing man. Despite my random republican snire comments at you, i'd be willing to play with you and your buddys.

You could also try red orchestra 2 which is something like $10-20 doll hairs. Not quite in your criteria but is a very solid and different fps, also a lot of fun and addicting. I get a similar feeling of "i worked to get that kill and it was awsome" nearly everytime you take someone out.

Both can be bought on steam or cheaper if you look around a bit.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Casimir on May 06, 2013, 03:38:43 am
Call of duty block ops, gief loomz now plox
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Relit on May 06, 2013, 03:55:51 am
I would recommend Eve, as others have. Its a real hit or miss game though. The years I spent in the game were only fun because I had a very active group of friends and we got involved in the nullsec political drama.

The game does have a lot going for it on the PvP side of things. The combat system does make the PvE a little repetitive (ratting or missions). The missions can be very challenging though.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 06, 2013, 04:33:08 am
Wurm Online
http://wurmonline.com/

This game is an open world, sandbox MMO.

What can I do in Wurm?

- Explore huge, diverse landmasses extending over 512sq km in total!
- Modify the terrain; dig, raise, flatten and sculpt the land around you!
- Make your home on either the PvP or PvE server.
- Craft and use thousands of unique items.
- Wage war on other kingdoms, and lead yours to victory.
- Discover and fight over religious artifacts on the PvP server.
- Capture and breed animals from the environment.
- Train 133 Skills, 10 Player Characteristics, and 3 Religion Characteristics.
- Follow one of four unique deities and religions.
- Hunt creatures such as the unique red dragon, forest giant, kyklops, troll king and others!
- Become a priest or champion of your religion and learn powerful spells and enchantments.
- Choose one of five meditation paths and take advantage of special meditation abilities.
- Earn as many of our 200+ skill and achievement titles as you have time for!
- Mount various creatures, from horses and carts to unicorns, bears and even dragons!
- Construct, crew or even captain six different ship types with other players, from small rowing boats to - impressive caravels.
- Build a variety of structures, from guard towers to stone houses to fences and statues.
- Found your own settlement wherever you desire; own land, build a farm, a castle, or perhaps an entire village!
- Pave roads to connect settlements and plant signs to improve local infrastructure.
- Live off the land by creating fields to farm a variety of crops including potatoes, garlic, cotton, wheat, strawberries, pumpkins and more!
- Cook food using a huge range of ingredients.

These are just SOME things this game offers.


EDIT: If you message me before you start, I can surely help you start out. Better items/ advice/ etc. This game is hard on noobs, but a mentor helps. Let me know if you need help.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Knute on May 06, 2013, 04:43:30 am
I've never played it but I think all the HG guys moved on to a game called Mortal Online, it's a open world PVP, PVE sandbox MMORPG game that's free to play.  The wiki says it's sort of like Ultima Online. 







Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Varadin on May 06, 2013, 05:00:04 am
MMo-rpg best one that will beat WoW is , Elder Scrolls Online
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tanken on May 06, 2013, 05:08:28 am
Quote from: Tears of Destiny on May 06, 2013, 01:56:16 am
Alright, this is me throwing my hat in

EVE Online
http://www.eveonline.com/ (http://www.eveonline.com/)



What you can do in EVE
Click here for the image
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/eve-wtd.jpg (http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/eve-wtd.jpg)
(click to show/hide)

If any of this sounds interesting, I'd love to actually talk to you on TS or something or send a detailed message of any questions, there is quite a lot to do and it is a lot more then just a "spreadsheet game" like a lot of naysayers claim it is. If you have someone to help you ease into it, there is a lot to discover, and combat is actually pretty complicated especially with manual control in 1 VS 1s.

I looked into EVE Online a while back, it was somewhat enjoyable, I played it for about a month or two but it never really stuck. Perhaps I've just been too spoiled by games I've become obsessed with OR perhaps it's just that I've diluted my perception of what MMOs should be because I've been involved in cRPG for so long haha
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Little Lord Lollipop on May 06, 2013, 05:58:46 am
Mario Kart 64
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Daniisme on May 06, 2013, 06:08:17 am
Game Dev Tycoon, an awesome indie game that allows you to create your own gaming company and create your like of games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e723-HBCBY

http://www.greenheartgames.com/

Support em!

Meh ignore this, you want MMO and I don't deal with MMO's.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Wrangham on May 06, 2013, 06:17:33 am
DDO (Dungeons & Dragons Online) is a good MMO, although they have completely ruined the endgame type stuff with moneygrubbing patches in the past year. But it has some unique character customization and combat mechanics, and it does a good job capturing the adventurous DnD setting, especially with a group. There's enough free content to play several hours.

World of Tanks is a well made shooter-type online game. It's fun as long as you don't get sucked into grinding the higher level competitive stuff where you need to do 500 games against players with completely upgraded tanks etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6bzej-2F9BQ
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 06, 2013, 07:16:50 am
star citizen

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/star-citizen/

Welcome mother fucker!

I can't wait to float out of my air lock and blow the doors of some poor merchants ship and then rape and kill everyone inside MUHAHAHAHA I AM EVIL!

WHOS WITH ME!

*Assumes by default he can count on all c-rpg players to join in the loot|rape|murder*
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Penguin on May 06, 2013, 07:50:09 am
Personally I find that every single "free to play" game is actually just "pay to win" (play the base game for free while you watch others spend real life money to get what would take you months of grinding). One game I was fascinated when it came out was SWG.  I won't bore you with long descriptions about exploring far reaches of the galaxy, customizing just about everything for your character, the ability to follow your own path (trader,smuggler,jedi,musician,bounty hunter, etc.) Anyways after Sony killed the combat system and abandoned the game, someone started a project to rebuild it from the ground up. It's great with a party of friends so check it out if you can.

You have to buy a cheap physical copy of SWG from ebay or wherever and get started

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/index.php
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: FleetFox on May 06, 2013, 09:42:45 am
Seriously have a go at Mortal Online http://www.mortalonline.com/ (http://www.mortalonline.com/), its an awesome fantasy/medieval massive sandbox MMORPG. I mean its really nice graphically to explore and you can make your own house/villages to then tax people and make laws, no PvP zones so you can attack or be attacked anywhere anytime (similar to DayZ). I mean what's not to like? Did I mention its completely free? Great game, nuff said.

[youtube]http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=wJKixGImlbk&feature=related[/youtube]

Give me a shout if you need any more info or vids, the site is pretty self explanatory though :) have fun
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: IR_Kuoin on May 06, 2013, 09:48:20 am
Quote from: Waradin on May 06, 2013, 05:00:04 am
MMo-rpg best one that will beat WoW is , Elder Scrolls Online

It is going to fail horribly, setting put 1000 years before Skyrim, still using the same models for giants and spiders, 1000 years before and in another region, and the giants still look like Yeties.


Personally I suggest Guild Wars 2, or Tera seeing that it is f2p now with no limitations regarding to subscription and f2p players.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Gnjus on May 06, 2013, 09:49:56 am
http://www.ign.com/games/grom-terror-in-tibet/pc-15713

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL418FF49F3A1942F9
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Vibe on May 06, 2013, 10:00:40 am
You're asking for quite a lot. I'd say it's impossible to find an MMO that suits all those requirements. Trust me on this, I have played&tested countless MMOs.

Anyway, not posting here to win the loom point, just to help a fellow MMO seeker out. Here's my list of "worthy" sandboxes:

Quote from: Vibe on March 27, 2013, 11:22:59 am
Ahh yeah, there actually is quite a few - but only a few are worth playing (imo) :D

Haven&Hearth (my fav)
Salem
Wurm Online
Ultima Online
Darkfall Unholy Wars
EVE Online
Xsyon
Mortal Online
A Tale In The Desert
Star Wars: Galaxies

To name a few. Rest I tried were too shitty to be able recall names.

There's a few in development that seem interesting as well.

There's also this thing called Planet Calypso, it's supposedly a sandbox as well, but uses a "real money business model", meaning you can (potentionally) earn real money in-game. But you'll have to invest to get to that point.


Quote from: Sniger on May 06, 2013, 12:22:53 am
it is like DDO? dungeons & dragons online

ive always been a fan of D&D but DDO is basicly instances like in guild wars and no "real" open world.

It's actually your standard themepark MMO, there is some open world, but it is separated in channels, so the game is mostly instanced. Has a few unique things, but it's nothing remarkable.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Little Lord Lollipop on May 06, 2013, 10:38:07 am
Quote from: Penguin on May 06, 2013, 07:50:09 am
Personally I find that every single "free to play" game is actually just "pay to win" (play the base game for free while you watch others spend real life money to get what would take you months of grinding). One game I was fascinated when it came out was SWG.  I won't bore you with long descriptions about exploring far reaches of the galaxy, customizing just about everything for your character, the ability to follow your own path (trader,smuggler,jedi,musician,bounty hunter, etc.) Anyways after Sony killed the combat system and abandoned the game, someone started a project to rebuild it from the ground up. It's great with a party of friends so check it out if you can.

You have to buy a cheap physical copy of SWG from ebay or wherever and get started

http://www.swgemu.com/forums/index.php

A torrented copy of the game will work as well (from experience). Really deep game but you definitely need a group of people to make it work.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Joker86 on May 06, 2013, 11:54:10 am
Wasn't Mortal Online a bugfest like no other and failed utterly? At least this was the state of affairs when I heard about it the last time. And on a youtube video for the free to play trailer I just watched the top comment says that the trailer tries to convey that you will be using pickaxes a lot. Is this true?

A game I liked to play was Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning. But I might be biased as I love the Warhammer background. Technically it's a really stanrdard MMORPG, with the usual few unique feature which prevent that group of MMORPGs to be 100% clones of each other who differ only in their art design. What I liked about the game were the public quests (similar to what Guild Wars 2 has) and the PvP where you have some kind of "push"-game mode between the capitals of two nations, going across all the maps between them. (All maps have a PvP-area, which is rather seperted from the rest. Unless you are on a PvP server you can purely focus on PvE if you want. Of course the PvP areas contain all the standard stuff like castles to be claimed by guilds, siege machines and so on).

But all in all it's just good, established standard, but with the (superior  :mrgreen: ) Warhammer background. Might lack players these days, though...  :?
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: FleetFox on May 06, 2013, 01:08:31 pm
Quote from: Joker86 on May 06, 2013, 11:54:10 am
Wasn't Mortal Online a bugfest like no other and failed utterly? At least this was the state of affairs when I heard about it the last time. And on a youtube video for the free to play trailer I just watched the top comment says that the trailer tries to convey that you will be using pickaxes a lot. Is this true?

A game I liked to play was Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning. But I might be biased as I love the Warhammer background. Technically it's a really stanrdard MMORPG, with the usual few unique feature which prevent that group of MMORPGs to be 100% clones of each other who differ only in their art design. What I liked about the game were the public quests (similar to what Guild Wars 2 has) and the PvP where you have some kind of "push"-game mode between the capitals of two nations, going across all the maps between them. (All maps have a PvP-area, which is rather seperted from the rest. Unless you are on a PvP server you can purely focus on PvE if you want. Of course the PvP areas contain all the standard stuff like castles to be claimed by guilds, siege machines and so on).

But all in all it's just good, established standard, but with the (superior  :mrgreen: ) Warhammer background. Might lack players these days, though...  :?

Hehe Mortal Online does have a lot of crafting and gathering/constructing which uses tools like a pickaxe, but that is only one aspect :P it just depends on which videos you watch and what the players are aiming to do ^^ freedom is everything, also many bugs have been sorted atleast last time i played.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Radament on May 06, 2013, 02:11:21 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
                                                                                                      visitors can't see pics , please register or login


One of the best old RPG , not an MMO but if you play in Persistent worlds it's like quite similar if not better.
Some Persistent worlds are  purely incentrated on roleplaying with a world to explore , monsters to kill , player's quest , events ,  player housing , socializing , PvP and much more.
The grapics are a bit outdated but you can install a little modification that overwrites all the game's texture with better ones.
To play in these servers you just need a copy of the game with both expansions , create a new account and direct connect with the desired server and download the .hak file requested to join.
Since Gamespy stopped working here's a list of the working servers http://www.nwnlist.com/ (http://www.nwnlist.com/)
I suggest Neverwinter Nights 1 over the second cause of content and population but if you prefer graphics instead of content , just go straight to NWN 2 (it's the same procedure to join).


VIDEO


NWN 1


NWN 2


*NOTE : this is not Neverwinter Online , it has nothing to do with the ones i suggested.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Vibe on May 06, 2013, 02:20:35 pm
Quote from: Joker86 on May 06, 2013, 11:54:10 am
Wasn't Mortal Online a bugfest like no other and failed utterly? At least this was the state of affairs when I heard about it the last time. And on a youtube video for the free to play trailer I just watched the top comment says that the trailer tries to convey that you will be using pickaxes a lot. Is this true?

Mortal Online is meh at best. This is not counting the bugs (there are quite a few). The idea is great but the execution is bad. Also you need to subscribe/pay to compete - the model is freemium, your skill will be limited at 60 (out of 100) if you're a free player. It's not a devastatingly bad game, but it's not good either.

Quote from: Joker86 on May 06, 2013, 11:54:10 am
A game I liked to play was Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning. But I might be biased as I love the Warhammer background. Technically it's a really stanrdard MMORPG, with the usual few unique feature which prevent that group of MMORPGs to be 100% clones of each other who differ only in their art design. What I liked about the game were the public quests (similar to what Guild Wars 2 has) and the PvP where you have some kind of "push"-game mode between the capitals of two nations, going across all the maps between them. (All maps have a PvP-area, which is rather seperted from the rest. Unless you are on a PvP server you can purely focus on PvE if you want. Of course the PvP areas contain all the standard stuff like castles to be claimed by guilds, siege machines and so on).

But all in all it's just good, established standard, but with the (superior  :mrgreen: ) Warhammer background. Might lack players these days, though...  :?

WHO was pretty cool back in the days. Lvl 40, about 40 RR (IIRC) Warrior Priest here ;). For it's time it was good, the public quests were a nice thing compared to standard questing, leveling through pvp was awesome as well and RvR being the core was awesome. Loved laying sieges and having good, massive open fights in the RvR zones. I'm not sure why I quit, I think it was bad faction balance and mostly the "zerg or get zerged" meta that was going on.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: EyeBeat on May 06, 2013, 02:23:51 pm
[youtube]l2kG8-n_baY[/youtube]

[youtube]JQc8EA02FCw[/youtube]
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tambajus on May 06, 2013, 02:39:58 pm
Dark Age of Camelot. It's old but imho still the best.
The best massively pvp (rvr) i have played.


the music video...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on May 06, 2013, 02:55:57 pm
Quote from: EyeBeat on May 06, 2013, 02:23:51 pm
[youtube]l2kG8-n_baY[/youtube]

[youtube]JQc8EA02FCw[/youtube]

That youtube is patato, but you have a nice gif in your sig :)

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


EDIT:

Quote from: Son Of Odin on May 05, 2013, 11:34:17 pm
How about you try a game called real life? I've heard it's pretty sweet but haven't tried it out yet :lol:

Meets all the requirements if you just make it so. Now, what did I win?

That game is shit! Rated 1/10 by 95% of the players! The amounts of grind, to get decent skills and gear is astrofuckingnomical! Perma-death, most of the players are retarded scammers, market-prices are a day-light theft! Not to mention, that the few wealthy players there are - got their accounts from someone else, or stole/scammed their gold.
And get this - you will have one account, and one character only. No exceptions! All players start with unequal stats, skills and gear :( wtf?! There is about 4/5 chance you will start as a slave class, with 500% reduction to your XP rate, and your account will expire very soon.
PvP and RvR is pretty good, but chances are - you will die before even seeing an enemy, and as i mentioned before, perma-death is not to be joked with :( The last good raid was a loo-o-ong time ago, it took 6 years to kill the Final Boss, while 100.000.000 players lost their accounts. My grandfather was a part of it, took that damn Boss down, and haven't even rolled any good loot. What a waste! ( awesome XP though )
Damn, just stay away from this abomination! You are better off playing Minesweeper or Tetris.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Angantyr on May 06, 2013, 03:13:24 pm
Quote from: Radament on May 06, 2013, 02:11:21 pm
(click to show/hide)
Though not active anymore I've played Neverwinter Nights for about 7 years. As Radament says just skip the sequel, NWN1 still has the greatest servers and community (and most charming graphics). If you want RP on your computer there is no better place to go than to one of the persistent RP servers, for example Arelith (http://arelith.com/) (most hardcore in reinforcing IC and OOC rules, you have to eat, drink and sleep, low magic setting and the server with the longest persistent, player driven history).
Here it is expected that you stay 'in-character' at all times, you get XP ticks for active role-playing (can still gain experience from monsters of course) and what RP cannot be achieved via mechanics are done via an excellent narrative approach that puts next to no limit on player creativity.

It's very dialogue, choice and consequence driven, lots of politics, crafting and character development, and thus has a generally mature and highly dedicated community. Arelith is set in the FR setting, so a bit of FR lore or D&D knowledge is not unwelcome, though not necessary.

When online CRPG more or less vanished from the Ultima Online servers it went to private shards and NWN.

And of course, it is free to play.




Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Falka on May 06, 2013, 04:27:40 pm
Quote from: Armpit_Sweat on May 06, 2013, 02:55:57 pm
Quote from: Son Of Odin on May 05, 2013, 11:34:17 pm
How about you try a game called real life? I've heard it's pretty sweet but haven't tried it out yet :lol:

Meets all the requirements if you just make it so. Now, what did I win?

That game is shit! Rated 1/10 by 95% of the players!
(click to show/hide)

Ye, I gave it a try once and it's disaster, worse than Dragon Age 2! Stay away from this so called "real life", it's not worth your time. To be honest I'm thinking about deleting my account - this game is so shitty!
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Joker86 on May 06, 2013, 04:37:26 pm
Quote from: Vibe on May 06, 2013, 02:20:35 pm
WHO was pretty cool back in the days. Lvl 40, about 40 RR (IIRC) Warrior Priest here ;). For it's time it was good, the public quests were a nice thing compared to standard questing, leveling through pvp was awesome as well and RvR being the core was awesome. Loved laying sieges and having good, massive open fights in the RvR zones. I'm not sure why I quit, I think it was bad faction balance and mostly the "zerg or get zerged" meta that was going on.

I know what you mean. The game gets old, somehow, but I can't put my finger on it. At some point you just stop discovering new AND interesting stuff...  :?

Another thing I'd like to recommend (as I still have one left) is The Secret World. It's refreshingly different, but has a few incredibly annoying mechanics (Solo instances, porting through Argatha, etc.). On the other hand it's basically "level free", which means that after some time all characters are of the same strength, but still there are hundreds of skills left to unlock. And in the end everyone has every skill. You can only use seven active skills you activate with your 1-7 keys, and seven passives, which grant you passive bonuses or improve certain active skills. You can use two different weapons classes of the available 9 (Pistols, Shotguns, Assault Rifles, Blade Weapons, Hammers, Fist Weapons, Blood Magic Tomes, Chaos Magic or Elemental Magic focuses/foci(?)) and the according active skills, the passive skills of every weapon class are not bound to equipping the corresponding weapon. Which allows interesting combinations.

Next to the two main weapons you can also use auxiliary weapons, of which the whip, the rocket launcher, the Quantum (some kind of techno-magical bracer) and the chainsaw are implemented. A few will porbably follow in the next patches.

And finally you have three smaller skill trees which are basically survival, aggro increasment and aggro reduction.

With this you have basically a gazillion of possible builds, even healing tanks or tanking damage dealers are possible.

The art design is beyond any doubt the most atmospheric and unique in the entire MMORPG-sector.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Phantasmal on May 06, 2013, 06:30:59 pm
I would say if you have enough friends, the original Guild Wars. You have great customization in the skills you choose (unlike GW2) and you have tons of PvE things to do if you purchase all the expansions. The first playthrough on normal will be pretty easy but when it comes to hard mode, most of the missions will give you and your friends a run for your money, especially if you have never played the game before. It is probably the game I have sunk the most time into ever. The stories, especially the original, were also pretty good. Unfortunately the PvP is mostly dead due to the age of the game as well as the release of GW2. My favorite class was a dedicated healer. The amount of micromanaging that goes into controlling/spending your mana in the best way possible while keeping everyone alive was one of the best challenges ever. If you have any questions about the game, just send me a pm!

First impressions:
(click to show/hide)

Here is the beginning of an elite mission (depending on the skill of the group, the mission runs anywhere from 2-4 hours[they are running this on normal mode, not hard mode by the way. Hard mode means more mobs and higher leveled enemies, which tests the skills of your party to its limits.]):
(click to show/hide)

EDIT: Fuck it, if you guys play I will make a new character and join if you want me to. I miss this game so much.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: PanPan on May 06, 2013, 06:43:32 pm
Heroes & Generals. If its not said already. Pretty fun played it for awhile.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 06, 2013, 06:46:18 pm
Quote from: Jarold on May 05, 2013, 11:21:35 pm
I really liked the game Ultima. It sounds really nerdy and it is.... The game cost money now a days but there is a free version which is the best because it isn't ruined by useless crap. The one I will be suggesting is managed by a community and is really great. Its called UO Second Age.

http://www.uosecondage.com/

It's basically an MMORPG although if you play on the free uo second age shard its only like 300 people. You start off slow leveling your character you get money, items, and skills. It's actually a hardcore mmorpg because anyone can kill you out of guard zones and take all your stuff. But it is really enjoyable.

You can trade with npc's and other players. Make money or level skills by mining, blacksmithing, swordfighting, magic etc.

You might nt to read up on the forums before playing to know how to play the game.

That is a very awesome shard, I just get bored of UO after playing it for about a month at a time.  Ultima Online was an amazing game, but they started going downhill around pub 16 (maybe even before).  The rule sets in the early days were the best I've ever seen for an MMORPG.  Would be awesome if other games were to carry on that amazing rule set, but gameplay like WoW and GW are what set the standard and everyone seems to copy them.  It's carebear city, and that's why I no longer play MMORPG's.

Open world PVP, but with consequences (i.e. a criminal system).  Guarded cities (most of them anyways), the ability to steal from people and loot corpses of people and NPC's.  Open world house placement system, player run economy, no questing, no instances for dungeons (i.e. you have to compete for resources).  Also when you die, almost everything on you drops to your corpse (which can be looted, if you're a non-criminal though, and someone outside your party/faction loots you, they become a criminal for 2 minutes and are attackable by anyone without consequences, aside from the criminal now being able to attack you forever until you die)

Also UO 2nd age usually has about 700 people online (although I'd wager at least 200 are 2nd accounts of people who are AFK macro'ing skills)

I had a lot of fun playing Wurm online, but the skill leveling is just RIDICULOUSLY slow, I mean you'd have to play for years at just one skill to be even decent at it. Not sure how people even get their fighting skills up.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Riddaren on May 06, 2013, 06:53:25 pm
Dungeons & Dragons Neverwinter
Free D&D mmorpg. Beta released 30 April.
http://nw.perfectworld.com
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: LordRichrich on May 06, 2013, 07:33:12 pm
Wargame: Airland battle

It's in beta right now, but still great fun.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/222750/

Ok, how to describe this. It's a modern era stratergy game. Imagine crossing company oh heroes with RTW style battles but ARMA realism.

There's an INSANE level of detail. You have to resupply your own men, #ap and #he, armour, movement speed, infantry transports.

The beta is multi-player, you build a "deck" of units, the more units within a group (ie, infantry, planes, vehicles, tanks, logistics etc) the more expensive it becomes. You have to try and build a well rounded deck. The game has true line of site, but if your recon can see something that your long range artillery can't, you can still bombard it. You have to use true style tactics to achieve victory, ie you NEED to support your aggressive groups and you need to protect your areas, planes can be long range.

I'm really bad at explaining this, but there's a stupid amount to cover. Steep learning curve, a million different ways to do stuff.

Graphics wise, it's great. Being a strat game, you spend a lot of time zoomed out, but you can zoom in close, I mean REALLY close and it just looks wonderful. Explosions, tracers, missiles, rockets, shells, smoke, everything is done amazingly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECTcBWF6ig8 - Gameplay (no commentary afaik)

Battles are up to 10 vs 10. Many nations, US, UK, Canada, France, Germany, Russia, Swden, Denmark and more.

Also deck bonuses, IE you can choose to select from one nations armoury, which limits you but lets you deploy more troops, or you can specialise into mechansied which gives your vechiles more exp but less points to spend on recon or something.

Really fun game, especially when you play with friends
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Leesin on May 06, 2013, 07:52:57 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on May 06, 2013, 06:46:18 pm
That is a very awesome shard, I just get bored of UO after playing it for about a month at a time.  Ultima Online was an amazing game, but they started going downhill around pub 16 (maybe even before).  The rule sets in the early days were the best I've ever seen for an MMORPG.  Would be awesome if other games were to carry on that amazing rule set, but gameplay like WoW and GW are what set the standard and everyone seems to copy them.  It's carebear city, and that's why I no longer play MMORPG's.

Open world PVP, but with consequences (i.e. a criminal system).  Guarded cities (most of them anyways), the ability to steal from people and loot corpses of people and NPC's.  Open world house placement system, player run economy, no questing, no instances for dungeons (i.e. you have to compete for resources).  Also when you die, almost everything on you drops to your corpse (which can be looted, if you're a non-criminal though, and someone outside your party/faction loots you, they become a criminal for 2 minutes and are attackable by anyone without consequences, aside from the criminal now being able to attack you forever until you die)

Also UO 2nd age usually has about 700 people online (although I'd wager at least 200 are 2nd accounts of people who are AFK macro'ing skills)



So true, I first played UO probably about 14 years ago, it was amazingly awesome up until the big change where EA got involved, then I noticed the game started falling apart, I eventually stopped playing the official shards, stopped my subscription and went to play free-shards. Though Before UO was ruined, it was the best MMORPG I've ever played, even to this day there is no MMORPG I've played since then that can even compare to the awesomeness and fun I experienced in pre-turd Ultima Online.

I've tried playing UO Second Age and other free shards in recent years but they just don't compare anymore, I think it's how stale the small communities get and it basically feels like an empty version of 14 years ago, I think the other thing is that I just don't know anyone who plays these shards and alot of the players are old elitist arseholes who all know eachother, making solo progress quite difficult.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Strudog on May 06, 2013, 07:54:40 pm
You've probably already played this but someone has to point it out.

A very simple game that, is hard to get good at and that is hard to learn is Starcraft 2, it can be both rewarding and frustrating but is a briiliant game if you like the RTS kind of genre. The game never gets old or not very competitive as there is always someone better than you.

Watch some videos of it on youtube gets you in the mood to play, (HusI love youtarcraft is a good one to watch)
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 06, 2013, 08:06:48 pm
yeah leesin you really need at least one other buddy playing with you, or you're very susceptible to getting ganked (even taking all the normal precautions of trapped pouches, lots of pots, bandies, etc).  And like you said, most of the people playing, are hard core old schooler's who have all their scripts and macro's ready to roll you if you make the slightest mistake.

My bro and me come back to UO 2nd age every few years it seems like for a month or two and get bored by it (lack of people is the main thing really), and it's a very old game.  I love the rule set, but we get spoiled by newer graphics and content, and it's a pretty big ghost world outside of town, mainly just PK's trying to gank you in large groups, virtually no targets for a thief.

Wish some MMORPG's would take a chance and try a different ruleset than the instanced dungeons, "friendly" PVP, no loot drops, no house placement, equipment based instead of skilled based, etc.  But that's not just MMO's, a lot of games fall into the same type of gameplay and rulesets because it has been proven to make money (look at first person shooters).  Publishers are all about making money, not making the best games they can (which I'm sure is obvious to most people reading this).  Just consider all the genre's that are really not tapped into.  Think of all the cool MMO environments that haven't even been explored (Zombie apocalypse, wild west, American colonization, medieval Europe, etc). 
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Leshma on May 06, 2013, 08:37:49 pm
Bitcoin mining was a great game before but few months ago it went live. It was much easier to play during beta, when everyone was still learning how to play. Right now, you're most likely going to lose your credits if you're not uber skilled.

It's combination of already mentioned and quite famous game called Real Life and another great game The Internets. Quite addictive and quest rewards are material if you want them to be.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Kafein on May 06, 2013, 08:42:59 pm
Quote from: Leshma on May 06, 2013, 08:37:49 pm
Bitcoin mining was a great game before but few months ago it went live. It was much easier to play during beta, when everyone was still learning how to play. Right now, you're most likely going to lose your credits if you're not uber skilled.

It's combination of already mentioned and quite famous game called Real Life and another great game The Internets. Quite addictive and quest rewards are material if you want them to be.

Bitcoin is internet fishing : you set up your equipment in a good spot, sleep the whole day and wake up when you catch something.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on May 06, 2013, 09:16:40 pm
Defiance is probably interesting. Playing it since some days, there is pve, pvp, coop. Free world with events, missions... Its a bit strange at the beginning but after you know how most of the stuff works its fun and something different than crpg.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: darmaster on May 06, 2013, 10:51:17 pm
SINGLES 2
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Jarold on May 07, 2013, 02:23:26 am
Second game I will suggest besides UO is...

I just got done playing a really awesome mod. It doesn't fit any of your criteria really.  :oops: But I loved it. If you have minecraft and loved the fallout games then you should get this mod.

It's great fun for fan boys like me and just a fun game to play while waiting on downloads or something. It's basically a survival game of looting and exploring. SINGLEPLAYER.

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1589714-adv-147-fallout-rebuilding-humanity-v121-30000-downloads/
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Fuma Kotaro on May 07, 2013, 08:35:21 am
I suggest binary domain it moght be not the one fitting the most but still its really fun playing it
sry I can't give you a link right now either search for binary domain in youtube or google or wait until I am home :p
My second suggestion would be battle for middle earth (1 2 rise of the whichking and edain mod)
you might know it already if not so same thing like before
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: StuLLe on May 07, 2013, 08:43:45 am
Best game out there:

Mortal Online

(got alot of bad critics, cause the beginning is damn hard, but I have never found anything similar in terms of complexity and freedom of a sandbox. If you wanna keep a RL, better dont start :mrgreen:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCmjv-0gMK0&feature=youtu.be&hd=1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCmjv-0gMK0&feature=youtu.be&hd=1)

I believe it fulfills all mentioned criteria you guys are looking for. 
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Dezilagel on May 07, 2013, 10:02:40 am
Hello Kitty Online
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Penguin on May 07, 2013, 10:18:21 am
Quote from: Little Lord Lollipop on May 06, 2013, 10:38:07 am
A torrented copy of the game will work as well (from experience). Really deep game but you definitely need a group of people to make it work.
Just looked up the legality and it appears perfectly legal since it's considered abandonware. I wonder why the swgemu team discourages the practice? Either way I will be dling and hopefully won't lose my soul to this game like the first time!
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Draggon on May 07, 2013, 04:01:12 pm
There's some good ones listed in here already, but here are the ones I'd have to second as some of the best PvP games out there to date:

-  Ultima Online: The PvP god of all PvP games!  About 6 months ago or so I played again with a few friends on a free shard that was pretty damn near exactly like the old game was.  Very active shard, lots of PvP, the mobs were a lot tougher and the skill ups were a lot faster (7x GM'ed in about a week).

- Dark Age of Camelot: Played on a free shard last year called Uthgard.  Pretty good but took waaaaaaaaay too long to level up to PvP.  Very active server though.  Recently re-joined the live servers on Ywaine 5 and godam was I surprised!  This game is still going very strong.  Tons of PvP/RvR going all the time.  Lots of improvements such as no longer having to do all the stupid ToA bullshit to level Artifacts, you can get everything you need for PvP buy actually PvPing.  No PvE required.  You CAN PvE for it also, but don't have to.  Your choice.

- Star Wars Galaxies:  Well we all know how great the original game was until Sony destroyed it.  But someone on here suggested SWG Emu which takes you back to the way the game was pre-CU.  I haven't tried it but that's now the next one on my list.  Thanks for suggesting!
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Son Of Odin on May 07, 2013, 04:07:54 pm
Dunno if suggested yet but Crytek's Warface (http://crytek.com/games/warface/overview) looks interesting. Most of all it's free2play and has cryengine 3.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Fips on May 07, 2013, 04:16:45 pm
Atlantica Online
http://atlantica.nexon.net/

First game, mmo,  i ever played for over 1000 hours (I think it adds up to like 1.6k) and actually spend a lot of money on =)

I'm not going to say anything about it here, just watch some vids of the gameplay on Youtube. There's nothing like it out there and the pvp is awesome.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: zagibu on May 07, 2013, 05:40:33 pm
Quote from: Fips on May 07, 2013, 04:16:45 pm
Atlantica Online
http://atlantica.nexon.net/

First game, mmo,  i ever played for over 1000 hours (I think it adds up to like 1.6k) and actually spend a lot of money on =)

I'm not going to say anything about it here, just watch some vids of the gameplay on Youtube. There's nothing like it out there and the pvp is awesome.

Looks like another one of those cleavage assault games. Also, my axe weighs three times as much as I do but I still swing it in one hand.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Sagar on May 07, 2013, 05:54:39 pm
Age of Conan: Unchained
http://www.ageofconan.com/
http://forums.ageofconan.com/

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: HarryCrumb on May 07, 2013, 06:49:33 pm
Quote from: Penguin on May 07, 2013, 10:18:21 am
Just looked up the legality and it appears perfectly legal since it's considered abandonware. I wonder why the swgemu team discourages the practice? Either way I will be dling and hopefully won't lose my soul to this game like the first time!

Quick piece of advice,

I played SWG pre-CU and also played the EMU for an extended period of time. While it looks extremely exciting with the progress they have made to recreate such a great game, be warned that this EMU has been in development for 5+ years now and they wipe the servers every year or so due to it still being in beta stages. Can't describe how painful it is to fully grind a complete character template just to see it wiped...
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Penitent on May 07, 2013, 10:29:17 pm
Damnit! I was going to suggest Age of Conan, and was getting excited no one mentioned it yet so I could claim the prize.

Anyways, I agree this is a great MMO to try.  I will expound upon some of the reasons in hopes of sharing the prize when you do eventually choose this game to play.

1. Great graphics.  Even though its a few years old, the graphics blow other MMO's out of the water.  When it first came out many machines just couldn't run it.

2. Gritty, dark, violent atmosphere.  I'm not sure if you're familiar with the Conan universe created by acclaimed (and possibly schizophrenic) author Robert E. Howard in the earlier 1900's...but the game fleshes it out very well.  There are no fairy quests or candy-colored reward items.  It's got dark gods, gory combat, and uncensored tits.  It's high adventure in a low fantasy setting. 

3. It's got the other things you're looking for (A marketplace, persistence, addictiveness, and a compelling story)  but the best is the combat system.  There is no "click. auto-attack. yawn."  Instead, it keeps you involved with directional attacks and combos, dodges, and plenty of blood.

I highly recommend it!!

Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Miwiw on May 07, 2013, 10:39:24 pm
Quote from: Sagar on May 07, 2013, 05:54:39 pm
Age of Conan: Unchained
http://www.ageofconan.com/
http://forums.ageofconan.com/

(click to show/hide)

I totally forgot about this game. wanted to try it months ago! Thanks!
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Digglez on May 07, 2013, 10:56:00 pm
Pirates of the Burning Sea (f2p, not p2win).  Imagine EVE Online-Lite.  Avatar ground combat (swashbuckling) is floaty and not that great, but ship combat rivals the complexity of EvE.  Port battles against other factions is similar to Strategus fights, 24v24 with different maps, win conditions, etc.  Economy is one of the more complex in games (not as much as Eve) and buying/trading and econ is actually kinda fun in this game.

Natural Selection 2 (team & objective based FPS-RTS).  I have always loved Teamfortress, played since the original, but NS2 is much more skill based than TF.  It combines a commanders giving orders to harvest resources so that you as a marine playing FPS have the tools to fight aliens.  One of the greatest asymmetrical design games EVER.


and as a longtime D&D and pencil/paper RPG'er who has played both Neverwinter (cryptic) & DDO (both before & after F2p) DDO wins hands down no fucking contest.  With a group of friends it can be a very fun game.  Neverwinter is complete fucking garbage cash grab grindfest.

Hell if you pick up DDO I would even be interested in playing with you guys.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Angantyr on May 07, 2013, 11:07:23 pm
Could any of you who've played UO in the recent years please recommend a shard and a game version? I've tried a few times over the years but it's a jungle.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Sagar on May 08, 2013, 12:35:04 am
I went through the whole thread, and I was like "what ... no Age of Conan - interesting"  :mrgreen:

Garison,
(click to show/hide)

You're welcome Miwiw99
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: ArysOakheart on May 08, 2013, 12:43:53 am
https://marvelheroes.com/

Looks like it will be glorious.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Jon Agony on May 08, 2013, 12:56:47 am
gimme looms
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Casimir on May 08, 2013, 01:12:32 am
Quote from: Tank Burner on May 05, 2013, 11:37:52 pm
ball lords

what is a ball lord?
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tanken on May 08, 2013, 01:31:20 am
Quote from: Casimir on May 08, 2013, 01:12:32 am
what is a ball lord?

A Lord of the Ballsquires.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: wanteds on May 08, 2013, 02:32:26 am
If grinding doesn't scare you, I suggest Kal Online.

http://www.inixgame.com/kalonline/


One of the best mmo's out there imo.

some features:

(click to show/hide)

All in all this game is hardcore, solid and addictive, and if you give it some love, it will become your second home. I know people playing this shit for over 5 years.
And if the grind is too much  for you (which is often the case in mmo's), there are many kal online active private servers out there with increased exp rate and other simplified content.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Uther Pendragon on May 08, 2013, 03:03:45 am
(click to show/hide)
There's no such game, GG.
I'd try This. Dawn of Fantasy Kingdom Wars (http://store.steampowered.com/app/227180/). It is an mmoRTS, but (from what I read in description) allows for co-op game, so setting matches should be easy. Rather positive ratings, no hate on bugs in forums. Different factions, weather system, some quests and other RPG-like content. Also this shit goes on even if you log off

OR, This here shiny. Guns of Icarus Online (http://gunsoficarus.com/), you battle enemy airships with your airship, manage your ship, repair the broken parts. Different ships, many ships in the same team, etc. And comon, those are BATTLES IN AIR

BATTLES IN AIR

BATTLES IN AIR
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Vengt037 on May 08, 2013, 06:56:21 am
My recommendations:

Okcupid--it's free, but pretty much all the girls are fat. Beware the selfie photo taken from above. This is a deceptive technique so try not to fall for it. Still, can be fun depending on what your town / area is like.  If you do find someone attractive, she probably already has at least one kid so I dunno, not that there's anything wrong w/ that, but know what you're signing up for is my advice I guess.   

Match.com--a little bit better quality content, but you have to pay a subscription fee. This is basically pay to win. Really good roleplay aspect though, you can RP a "single guy", or a "wealthy aristocrat" who has attributes like "being funny", "athletic" or even, "interested in a long-term relationship". And that's just a few possibilities. The grind can be disheartening, but it can be really worth it too.

I think both of these games satisfy all the criteria you listed.

Before you dismiss my suggestions, just create an account and give them a try. Maybe you will find them to be very engaging.

Also, Tears' post makes me want to try Eve now.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: StormFaction on May 08, 2013, 06:03:25 pm
Too lazy to look through all the suggestions, but if it hasn't been mentioned already then evochron mercenary is a very interesting and challenging space sim mmo.  Basically you're exactly what it says: a mercenary, and you can squad up with people and do quests n shit.  There's also like 500 different explorable systems,any which aren't marked and can only be accessed by very precise black hole jumps where one degree of error results in getting shredded by gravity. there was also talk of putting planet walking mechs in but Idk if that happened yet

Fighting is really fun and hard to master, full physics means you need lots of precise thrust control to stay on an enemy and not fling out into space.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Wallace_Ritchie on May 08, 2013, 08:05:45 pm
Just a couple I've been keeping my eye on.

http://www.embersofcaerus.com/ (pre-alpha)   Not sure what to make of it. Darkfall like maybe?

http://gloriavictisgame.com/  (pre-alpha) looks like crap gameplay for now, but who knows.

http://www.savage2.com/    Like Dota, but close 3rd person. Also a RTS element.

Vindictus is on steam, but it's more a button masher that gets tedious very quickly.

Darkfall 2 is out, but not sure it's anything more than a glorified expansion.

Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: MR_FISTA on May 08, 2013, 08:14:24 pm
Mortal Online

or

Darkfall
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Necrorave on May 08, 2013, 09:44:12 pm
Keep your loompoint, I just want someone to play Wurm Online (http://wurmonline.com) with me

Open sandbox World.  Imagine Eve Online player driven world but Fantasy based.

Everything is run or created by a player of some sorts.  (With a few exceptions)

Everything about the game is also researched by the players, so there is always the possibility of discovering something new.  Gives that game a sense of mystery and makes you want to explore and study the world around you.  Also, there is apparently a way for a player to become a god through VERY fucking rare and delicate procedures.

Let's just say to be considered a mere "Champion" of a god, you need to have to dedicate a lot of time for that particular god (Naturally)  Although, if you lose the title of champion.  You may not become one for a full year.

I have not played PvP but apparently one faction only has 3 champions out of the hundreds of players in it.  Just to give you an idea of how things feel "Mystical" almost.  Been playing for months, never seen a dragon.  Apparently, they are extinct on my island.  Although rumors of a dragon egg seem to pop up once in a while.

Summary: Player Driven Sandbox game that offers both PvP and PvE.  (Fairly hard to grief in the game so don't be too worried.)  I will mention that they do have a limit for free players, but you can buy memberships with IG currency as well which makes it nice for those who do not have real money to spend too.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Clockworkkiller on May 09, 2013, 12:49:59 am
Im just gonna name a few suggestions which I think will Atleast fit your wants somehow

Here goes,

Guild wars 2
Star Wars the old republic
Guns of Icarus (fun with friends)
Air buccaneers (small player base, similar to GoI, still loads of fun)
A total war game?????
lol, how about...realm of the mad god....tried it out, its actually quite fun, its a "bullet hell shooter mmo, with perma death" it may seem to "kiddy" or wacky but i think its fun
I'll doubt you'll like MOBAs or 80% of the mmos out there, or most shooters

You've basically just said "gimme the perfect MMO, the one that doesnt exist"

Ill think of more later
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Radament on May 09, 2013, 03:44:36 am
out of the contest but i found an epic mmo pvp game , it has gud graphix , it's tactical , addicting , dunno about economy and it's free
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f04_1366480795 (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f04_1366480795)
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Arkonor on May 09, 2013, 01:05:06 pm
http://www.xcom.com/enemyunknown/entry

Just simply awesome
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 09, 2013, 07:02:26 pm
Quote from: Vengt037 on May 08, 2013, 06:56:21 am
My recommendations:

Okcupid--it's free, but pretty much all the girls are fat. Beware the selfie photo taken from above. This is a deceptive technique so try not to fall for it. Still, can be fun depending on what your town / area is like.  If you do find someone attractive, she probably already has at least one kid so I dunno, not that there's anything wrong w/ that, but know what you're signing up for is my advice I guess.   

Match.com--a little bit better quality content, but you have to pay a subscription fee. This is basically pay to win. Really good roleplay aspect though, you can RP a "single guy", or a "wealthy aristocrat" who has attributes like "being funny", "athletic" or even, "interested in a long-term relationship". And that's just a few possibilities. The grind can be disheartening, but it can be really worth it too.

I think both of these games satisfy all the criteria you listed.

Before you dismiss my suggestions, just create an account and give them a try. Maybe you will find them to be very engaging.

Also, Tears' post makes me want to try Eve now.

met my wife 4 years ago after meeting on okcupid.com (swear I signed up just for the tests)
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Lord Lurk on May 10, 2013, 02:47:45 pm
Its not a MMO, but its addictive, has a pretty hefty learning curve(but the rewards are so juicey once you learn them) and you can play for endless hours.

www.egosoft.com

Check it out, the X series is a great game, you can buy it through steam and the fellas at egosoft will provide you with a free, non-steam exe. There is a massive modding community and they are always actively updating and introducing new things to add to the game, I have enjoyed so few games like I have with the X-series.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: jergu on May 11, 2013, 05:23:54 pm
LOADOUT

Its in beta currently but its def worth trying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVDf62Owe5s
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Torp on May 11, 2013, 11:53:30 pm
shattered horizon - http://www.gametrailers.com/games/8sfeaj/shattered-horizon
I'd be playing this game a whole lot if i had a betetr computer

otherwise diablo II - it's old but its a great game nonetheless and i lways have a blast when i return after a year or so of absence
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: FleetFox on May 11, 2013, 11:55:17 pm
Basically just play cRPG over the summer, and then play Destiny when it comes out in Autumn. That and Rome 2 I suppose :)
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: zottlmarsch on May 12, 2013, 12:08:19 am
soggy biscuit
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tanken on May 12, 2013, 01:41:34 am
I am not trying to crush any hopes or dreams here guys, but, I think most of the community (those of you who actually attributed some cool ideas to this thread!) has pretty much nailed the fact that there simply isn't a game out there that fully, or even 90% of the way meet the criteria I have asked to receive. I've been trying a lot of these games lately guys, honestly, I have. There just hasn't been an overwhelming sense of "THIS IS THE ONE!"


I will say though that I think the DayZ standalone will be very fun, I was a huuuuuge fan of it. Also, if the Mortal Online game ever gets some serious patches and revamping it could be promising. I guess I should have specified that I suck horribly at MOBA games and Strategy games (Such as EU3 and the Total War series, etc etc). I'm also not a huuuuuuge Space game fan, such as Eve, primarily because I could never master the learning curve as well as had no one to play with.


I thank you guys so much for your input thus far and I really hate to close a contest without a decisive winner. I'll leave the contest open until the end of the day just in case I change my mind or some fantastic suggestion comes spoiling in. I'm sure I'll receive a lot of Infamy for this post, but I think it's quite clear that there just isn't anything out there that fits me and my group's desires.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Gmnotutoo on May 12, 2013, 01:51:52 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Neverwinter Online. Clearly you just don't want to give me your loom-point.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: zagibu on May 12, 2013, 09:28:01 pm
Quote from: Tank Burner on May 12, 2013, 01:41:34 am
I thank you guys so much for your input thus far and I really hate to close a contest without a decisive winner. I'll leave the contest open until the end of the day just in case I change my mind or some fantastic suggestion comes spoiling in. I'm sure I'll receive a lot of Infamy for this post, but I think it's quite clear that there just isn't anything out there that fits me and my group's desires.

How many hours do you intend to invest every week?
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tanken on May 12, 2013, 10:06:48 pm
Quote from: zagibu on May 12, 2013, 09:28:01 pm
How many hours do you intend to invest every week?


A lot, if it's addicting I could easily foresee 10-20 hours a week as sad as that is to say. Depends. Why?
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Joker86 on May 12, 2013, 11:08:44 pm
Have you already tried Global Agenda?

The game is f2p at steam, so you can just go an try it. Its community is small after all that time, but still active and dedicated.



It's placed in a SciFi setting.

Trailer with dev comments (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aox3FuXhK-U)
Trailer for lastest content patch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsJ0orwmBnQ)
No Elves trailer 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxFKDzW0qdg)
No Elves trailer 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESE-QzPpZ50)
No Elves trailer 3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3w85vYdf-Q)

The No Elves trailers are an absolute must see for everybody!  :lol:

Quote from: Tank Burner on May 05, 2013, 10:50:09 pm
Some Requirements:
Must have a lot of persistency meaning constantly something to do CHECK
Needs a good learning curve and high skill base to be really good CHECK
Must be addicting CHECK
I like games with micro-markets, ways to do things other than just fighting CHECK
A good storyline or roleplay element Well, no storyline, but character development in terms of leveling.
Good graphics --> No cartoony or anime looking crap CHECK
Good playerbase CHECK
PvP, PvE, RvR -- It doesn't matter. CHECK
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Hawkes on May 12, 2013, 11:13:16 pm
Defiance - brilliant game so far!

Playing it with friends, loving it. It's like a persistent borderlands.  :D
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Deltah on May 13, 2013, 12:55:36 am
Play some D&D. I don't mean DDO. I don't mean Neverwinter. I don't even mean tabletop. Come up with a system, and do some freeform roleplaying. I'm sure it won't satisfy all of your needs. As it has been pointed out numerous times, you can't. Dracul has been doing some freeform DnD for years now, and we have more fun laughing and joking in teamspeak about the stupid shit we imagine than about anything else. This thread here can show you a few examples of what we've done. http://forum.meleegaming.com/spam/dragons-in-dungeons/msg659913/#msg659913

It sounds stupid and cheesy, but I suggest trying it, because it is a fun that can't be expressed in any virtual world.

Another thing we like to do at Dracul. Arma 2. Yeah, I know you've played DayZ, and in the right circumstances it has tons of potential. However, an affect almost similar in its sandboxyness to our DnD, would be Arma 2's mission editor. With ACE and a few other mods of your choice to expand content, you can have loads of fun endlessly, with all of your friends. Want persistance? Make a campaign of missions, and adjust them to your gameplay experience. Want pvp? Go head to head with your buddies in a realistic and high stakes combat enviroment, fine tuned to your desire.

Arma is obviously a graphically demanding game and must be bought, but after 3 years of it I'm still not bored.

But otherwise, the only limitations on these two games are the people you play with, and your own drive to work and imagine things.

If you want reference on either of these two, talk with Relit or Necrowave or Artyem or Blackzilla or Larry.

You can't go wrong with freedom.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: zagibu on May 13, 2013, 01:40:08 pm
Quote from: Tank Burner on May 12, 2013, 10:06:48 pm

A lot, if it's addicting I could easily foresee 10-20 hours a week as sad as that is to say. Depends. Why?

Because with that many hours to burn and a few friends that also love games and have time, you could easily MAKE a game instead.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Voso on May 14, 2013, 09:34:26 pm
Quote from: zagibu on May 13, 2013, 01:40:08 pm
Because with that many hours to burn and a few friends that also love games and have time, you could easily MAKE a game instead.

lol fuck you zagibu
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on May 14, 2013, 09:50:48 pm
So when am I getting this loompoint?

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Sir_Hans on May 15, 2013, 02:57:50 am
Baldurs Gate II Shadows of Amn and Throne of Bhaal - Multiplayer... on Super Hard!!!

So good...

If you play it on multi you gotta invite me  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Matey on May 15, 2013, 06:56:26 am
Alright. I'll give you a good one. It totally fails your "Good Graphics" thing... but fuck you! Go play Space Station 13! Sure its 2d graphics of SNES quality... and it lags sometimes... but what other game lets you perform gender reassignment surgery on other players with wirecutters? It takes a bit to get used to but once you get the basics down you can play easy enough, but to master everything takes forever because there is a ton of stuff you can do. its round based with rounds that average about an hour. you can RP lots if you want but depending on the server you play on you might have diff requirements for RP and all sorts of diff rules and features and so on. I used to play on TG Station http://www.nanotrasen.com/ you could start there. Of course they don't want you and your friends to coordinate your efforts via teamspeak and the like so try not to meta it up and be lame.

anyways, I was super hooked on that for about 4 months which was pretty solid, ill end up playing it again later im sure. Fantastic game.
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: christits on May 15, 2013, 10:51:26 pm
Dark Souls or Dark Souls or Kerbal Space Program, maybe even Dark Souls if you're feeling ballsy
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: Tore on May 15, 2013, 10:54:23 pm
Age of Empires 2
Title: Re: Suggest a Game -- Win a Loom Point Contest
Post by: wanteds on May 16, 2013, 12:26:40 am
Have you checked Steam's Greenlight? Some pretty awesome stuff there as well.