what does 1 speed translate to in wpf terms?Sorry for not answering your question; I've no idea but this could give us more of an idea! :)
http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner's-help-and-guides/weapon-attack-speed-and-proficiency-and-not-agility/msg42737/#msg42737
You can probably pretty much deduct it from here. The thing is though that wpf offers a speed increase relative to weapon speed whereas the weapon speed value increases speed absolutely. It's impossible to express 1 speed in wpf terms overall, you can only really do it per weapon.
Weapon "speed" is two things. You have the time between the instant you press your mouse button and the moment your swing is ready, then you have the time it takes between the moment you release the button and the end of the active animation phase. And even that isn't really important during gameplay, because you want to hit at the first instant that will do full damage, which is earlier than half the animation time.
Anyway out of these two things I don't know what wpf and weapon speed do. I think they both only influence the latter but I'm not sure.
Weapon "speed" is two things. You have the time between the instant you press your mouse button and the moment your swing is ready, then you have the time it takes between the moment you release the button and the end of the active animation phase.
And even that isn't really important during gameplay, because you want to hit at the first instant that will do full damage, which is earlier than half the animation time.
The time from the click till it hits mid-animation afaik, but the different classes have different chambering time and release time. Polearms, for example, release an attack very fast, but chambering the attack is slow, which means it's a good class for holds, wiggles and chambers, but not too good for feinting.
That's not weapon speed, it's ready and release phases. Weapon speed is a modifier that affects both.
Higher weapon speed = shorter ready/release animations = takes less time to reach maximum damage potential.
AFAIK all ready animations have the exact same base duration (0.35s).
Im hit by stabs before there is an animation, with pole arms alot
Regarding the bolded text, cmp: does this mean you need to hold a swing for less time to reach its maximum damage potential?
thats because they changed how stabbing works in crpg ... it's really easily abusable in crpg since the change, if you get enough damage (wpf + weapon damage) and your weapon isn't TOO long you can basically stab people ridiculously fast because it ignores/bypasses the usual armour bouncing mechanic that they put in native to stop that ... thus the reason people wanted the insta crpg stab removed for ages
No, the hold time still applies to the ready phase and is unaffected by weapon speed. it doesn't apply to the release, though.
Yeah, no. Current stab sweetspots are harsher than Native for insta stabs.(click to show/hide)
Edit: unless by "armor bouncing mechanic" you mean the soak/reduce values, in which case they are not specific to stabs and blame Urist anyway.
I don't know what you're talking about when you say sweetspot and soak etc
no, they aren't, get a pike in native and try and instantly stab someone, then get a 21/21 +3 longspear in crpg and try, you will see that it's a --LOT-- easier in crpg.Maybe that's because c-RPG 21-21 character is more advanced than native one?
I assume you compared the behavior with the exact same attributes, skills and proficiencies.(click to show/hide)
Exactly.
cmp, you know a lot about the game mechanics etc etc fair enough, but i know what im talking about with the spears, i don't know how it works technically but i know what i play
you can literally instant stab on crpg if you have enough dmg / wpf, i'm not like making this up or anything
All I know is that you can go get a coffee in the time it takes for the 1h thrust animation to land, but polearm thrust occurs so fast the animation doesn't even register on the screen.
1h: 0.35+0.62+0.3
pole: 0.35+0.6+0.3
(ready+release+continue in seconds, before being affected by wpf)
Might be the hand (i.e. weapon) position in the animation fooling you.
What is the quantitative reason that 1h left swing is so fast and 1h right swing so slow, for instance?
most likely something to do with distance traveled. The rightside swing has a much longer radius then the leftside swing, meaning that the circumference of the rightside swing is greater. Since they are both travelling at the same speed, left side swing finishes the animation quicker due to the shorter distance. This is all conjecture by the way.
The big difference is that left swing hits for full damage very early in the animation (starting at about 9 o'clock), whereas right swing will glance between 5 o'clock and 1 o'clock.
cmp usually posts equations showing that every animation is basically identical in terms of speed/sweetspots, but anyone that has played the game can verify that they all behave very differently.
Left/right swing glancing/damage reduction is mainly based on angle between opponents.
Forgive me if I don't trust your word, but you don't seem to know the basics of the game very well (see above)...
Might be the hand (i.e. weapon) position in the animation fooling you.The 1h right swing is odd in that the weapon is angled back towards the forearm during the first part of the swing, so this could very well be a major factor here.
It must be a language barrier or something, because every time we re-open this discussion on animation sweetspots/etc, I get the impression that we aren't even talking about the same thing.
We are, and as I said it's based on the angle between forward direction vector of the attacker and vector between attacker and defender, but unlike your drawing it's the exact same for left and right (with animation time as fallback, and only in a very recent WSE2 update). Thrusts and overheads only use animation time.
The 1h stab is the hardest direction to block in the game. The enemy barely moves while performing it, it's very hard to tell when it's released and it hits instantly.
OK, you are indeed asserting that 1h left and right swing are symmetric in terms of sweetspots.
cmp, this is exactly what i mean, the stab releases absolutely instantly, but it has to be at a very very specific distance to hit, or it glances because it's too far or glances because it's too close
I said same, not symmetric (i.e. assuming that one of your drawings was correct, it would apply both to left and right swing).
OK, that's an important distinction. So you are saying that if the 9 o'clock position is "sweet" for left swing, it should be "sweet" for right swing? Anyone that has played 1h for 15 minutes can assert that is not the case, so I'm still struggling to grasp how you interpretation of the code differs so substantially from actual gameplay.
I think I understand what you are saying about sideswing sweetspots being spacial and thrust/overhead being temporal, and gameplay seems to agree with that statement. It's the assertion that sideswing sweetspots are the same for every animation (left/right/1h/pole/2h) that is woefully inconsistent with gameplay.
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(http://s4.photobucket.com/user/the_phew/media/ss_zpsa9451d0d.jpg.html)
I added a message that shows the sweetspot factor right before it's used to reduce damage (http://imgur.com/lKepWLF,aR7Xt8c,GkMLAff,aR8kZVc,lBYCdyB,VW7BcFL,DcommaE,D1yEFbw,NqPj3dG,uS3JOUG#0)
cosAngle = dot(direction_between_agents, attacker_direction) <- unit length vectors in 2d space
noDamageCosAngle = 0.05
fullDamageCosAngle = 0.55
sweetSpotFactor = clamp((cosAngle - noDamageCosAngle) / (fullDamageCosAngle - noDamageCosAngle), 0.0, 1.0)