what does 1 speed translate to in wpf terms?

[Phew]

most likely something to do with distance traveled. The rightside swing has a much longer radius then the leftside swing, meaning that the circumference of the rightside swing is greater. Since they are both travelling at the same speed, left side swing finishes the animation quicker due to the shorter distance. This is all conjecture by the way.

I get what you're saying, but the "starting points" for both animations appear to be pretty symmetric; left swing is about 8 o'clock, right swing around 5 o'clock. The big difference is that left swing hits for full damage very early in the animation (starting at about 9 o'clock), whereas right swing will glance between 5 o'clock and 1 o'clock. cmp usually posts equations showing that every animation is basically identical in terms of speed/sweetspots, but anyone that has played the game can verify that they all behave very differently.

[cmp]

The big difference is that left swing hits for full damage very early in the animation (starting at about 9 o'clock), whereas right swing will glance between 5 o'clock and 1 o'clock.

Left/right swing glancing/damage reduction is mainly based on angle between opponents.

cmp usually posts equations showing that every animation is basically identical in terms of speed/sweetspots, but anyone that has played the game can verify that they all behave very differently.

Forgive me if I don't trust your word, but you don't seem to know the basics of the game very well (see above)...

[San]

How is the angle determined exactly? Right swing must have some odd angle calculation. Right swing also seems slower to me, because when I try to stop my right swing at a reasonable location where the swing "barely started," it goes all the way through.

[Phew]

Left/right swing glancing/damage reduction is mainly based on angle between opponents.

Forgive me if I don't trust your word, but you don't seem to know the basics of the game very well (see above)...

It must be a language barrier or something, because every time we re-open this discussion on animation sweetspots/etc, I get the impression that we aren't even talking about the same thing. I share an observation about sweetspot mechanics, you say I'm wrong followed by a snarky personal attack, but never offer any specifics.

So let's try pictures. Here's my impression of the 1h sideswing animation sweetspots, based on about 125 million XP worth of experience as a 1h-user:

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I'm pretty confident that other more experienced 1h-users (San, Rusty,Turbo,etc) would draw a similar picture, or at the very least agree that the left swing and right swing sweetspots are definitely not symmetric. I believe you are asserting that they are in fact symmetric, but it's hard to tell from your posts. Please set me straight.

[Tydeus]

I don't think you're taking everything into account with those swings. For example, the left swing's tendency to hit a player in the head at the start of the animation. So more often than not, you can hit your opponent outside of your sweet spot and not glance with a left swing, as long as you hit them in the head(which happens the majority of the time). You can do the same with a right swing, you just have to go out of your way to aim for your opponent's head.

Next, it would appear that the first 120 degrees or so take less time than the next 120 degrees, where the animation(weapon velocity) then slows down yet again for the last 30 or so degrees. Without the tip of the weapon moving at a stable velocity around the body, you can't compare similar angles of different swings in a meaningful way.

When keeping these and the previously mentioned things in mind, it should make perfect sense as to why the right swing/polearm left swing have such a tendency to glance. Look at the Pole left swing, it covers the first 160~ degrees very, very quickly, then slows down significantly to finish the last 90 or so degrees.

Edit: Furthermore, 1h damage(particularly cut weapon damage) is so low that you have less of an effective 'sweet spot'. Any time you hit outside of your actual sweet spot, you're just asking for a glance(hell, you're asking for a glance simply by using a 1h sword).

Edit 2: Basically, Yes those are the areas where you are likely to glance but not necessarily the 'sweet spots'.

Might be the hand (i.e. weapon) position in the animation fooling you.

The 1h right swing is odd in that the weapon is angled back towards the forearm during the first part of the swing, so this could very well be a major factor here.

[cmp]

It must be a language barrier or something, because every time we re-open this discussion on animation sweetspots/etc, I get the impression that we aren't even talking about the same thing.

We are, and as I said it's based on the angle between forward direction vector of the attacker and vector between attacker and defender, but unlike your drawing it's the exact same for left and right (with animation time as fallback, and only in a very recent WSE2 update). Thrusts and overheads only use animation time.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

TBH The difference in pole arm stab vs 1h stab as one of visuals. The trouble is that the 1h stab telegraphs like a fucking telegraph :/ I have always had a rough time dealing with the 1h stab in CRPG. The changes made didn't really change it that much. The first sword I really used was the Side Sword and that was back in 2011, I got used to wailing on people with the thrust but required a lot of fucking around where as head hunting with the left swing is and was a piece of piss.

TL:DR

The 1h animation telegraphs the move, the pole arm thrust hides it.

[Gurnisson]

The 1h stab is the hardest direction to block in the game. The enemy barely moves while performing it, it's very hard to tell when it's released and it hits instantly.

[Phew]

We are, and as I said it's based on the angle between forward direction vector of the attacker and vector between attacker and defender, but unlike your drawing it's the exact same for left and right (with animation time as fallback, and only in a very recent WSE2 update). Thrusts and overheads only use animation time.

OK, you are indeed asserting that 1h left and right swing are symmetric in terms of sweetspots. There may be code that indicates this, but actual gameplay doesn't bear this out. For instance, 3 o'clock is a dead zone for right swing; you will always glance on someone there. But a left swing at someone at your 9 o'clock is pretty much ideal; success as a 1-hander pretty much hinges on your ability to keep your enemy between 9-10 o'clock.

2h is so much more effective than 1h and pole because your entire 180 degree forward arc is a "kill zone", whereas 1h has a huge "dead zone" between 1-3 o'clock and pole has one between 9 and 11 o'clock. From what cmp keeps saying, this isn't the intent, so the 1h and pole "dead zones" must be a bug.

[Corsair831]

The 1h stab is the hardest direction to block in the game. The enemy barely moves while performing it, it's very hard to tell when it's released and it hits instantly.

cmp, this is exactly what i mean, the stab releases absolutely instantly, but it has to be at a very very specific distance to hit, or it glances because it's too far or glances because it's too close

(however, since the turnrate nerf, if you get enough damage, it does not glance on armour even at extremely close ranges)

[cmp]

OK, you are indeed asserting that 1h left and right swing are symmetric in terms of sweetspots.

I said same, not symmetric (i.e. assuming that one of your drawings was correct, it would apply both to left and right swing).

cmp, this is exactly what i mean, the stab releases absolutely instantly, but it has to be at a very very specific distance to hit, or it glances because it's too far or glances because it's too close

I just tested this, and with the same weapon speed and proficiency it takes the exact same time to release a 1h/2h/pole thrust. You're probably getting fooled by the higher speed on 1h weapons.

[Phew]

I said same, not symmetric (i.e. assuming that one of your drawings was correct, it would apply both to left and right swing).

OK, that's an important distinction. So you are saying that if the 9 o'clock position is "sweet" for left swing, it should be "sweet" for right swing? Anyone that has played 1h for 15 minutes can assert that is not the case, so I'm still struggling to grasp how you interpretation of the code differs so substantially from actual gameplay.

I think I understand what you are saying about sideswing sweetspots being spacial and thrust/overhead being temporal, and gameplay seems to agree with that statement. It's the assertion that sideswing sweetspots are the same for every animation (left/right/1h/pole/2h) that is woefully inconsistent with gameplay.

[Konrax]

I would like to throw some recent observations out there regarding 1h stab animation.

I have 18 generations under my belt, and have used a 1h stab based weapon for almost that entire time. Currently I use the Broad short sword, prior to that in this order I used LEE, Italian, EE, and now the BSS.

I just wanted to point out that the stab animation the last while for 1h seems to glance often when it should not. Clear hits that I had enough space for normally just bounce and do no damage, then I sit there with my sword up frozen for a second while I get hit in the face by something.

This happens quite often actually and I believe it is one of the main reasons why 1h players usually stay away from stab based weapons.

How has 1h stab animation changed the last while to cause it to act this way?

(Current build is lvl 31, 18st, 21agi, 6 ps, 6 wm, 7 shield, 7 ath)

[cmp]

OK, that's an important distinction. So you are saying that if the 9 o'clock position is "sweet" for left swing, it should be "sweet" for right swing? Anyone that has played 1h for 15 minutes can assert that is not the case, so I'm still struggling to grasp how you interpretation of the code differs so substantially from actual gameplay.

I think I understand what you are saying about sideswing sweetspots being spacial and thrust/overhead being temporal, and gameplay seems to agree with that statement. It's the assertion that sideswing sweetspots are the same for every animation (left/right/1h/pole/2h) that is woefully inconsistent with gameplay.

I added a message that shows the sweetspot factor right before it's used to reduce damage

[oprah_winfrey]

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Your left swing sweet spot doesn't start that early. I would guess the sweet spot doesn't start until 10ish. Its just not as noticeable because the sword hugs your body at the start of the animation, while the right swing out in the open.

As far as the 1h stab, I don't understand how people can still say its underpowered. That thing is a monster with the new turn radius.