There's this thing confusing me, sometimes people say cav counters archers, sometimes they say archery counters cav.
I like what they do in Arma games. After running, you need to catch your breath and wait before shooting, otherwise your accuracy will be shit.
Archers are able to make melee/archer hybrids and its just been buffed with this latest patch... (the shitload of 0 slot one handed swords, is totally meant for polearms right?)
Still drop your bow its not like i am going to steal it got no PD and gain your speed
Stand on the spot thing: Nordwolf suggests instead of weight to stop kiting, archers should be imobilised to shoot i can in no way see that to be any good or even by any far shoot better.
This will not solve kiting. Just saying.You could also bring some arguments :)
kiting a problem? lolYou probably didn't play on EU 1/4 in times of that inescapable and annoying force. I don't know how was that in NA servers though.
Just makes me sadJust go away.
Just go away.
No, seriously. How are cav and archers ruining the game for you? lol.
If you get couched in your back - you suck.
If you get shot - in 70% it means you suck, other 30% is a random factor which any battle should have.
So maybe instead of complaining about other classes you should learn to resist and fight them?
Hmm let's see battle server are currently the most popular server... Yeah you're wrong...
Low cap? Did someone ever ask to get a bigger melee only server? Hmm guess not.
Why? because it was never full in the first place... :rolleyes:
Wrong again.. go back to the drawing board...
Can't see a problem here, neither with archery nor cav... and you know why?
Cuz EU1 still has both of them in a good amount.
Everyone keeps saying "u suck0r when shot or couched lulz"... How about I say "u suck0r cuz u can't/don't want to adapt to the changes done to your gear lulz"?
When lots just keep playing and a few spam the forum with QQ... probably the few have an issue of being not willing to adapt.
Atm it looks like medieval age witch burning.
Everyone seems to think that he himself is the chosen one and has to charge into the enemy, not giving a fuck what his teammates are doing. Still people dont realise that they need ranged to take down enemy horse ranged. Do you see them support their friendly archers so they dont get cav raped ? Rarely.
It's the most saddest and boring thing a meele player can do. You know I'm playing the game to have fun (not caring much about winning) and defending an Archer isn't fun.It was fun doing teamplay back when I was infantry. Grabbing a polearm to prevent getting any enemy cavalry to get near to the archer/xbowman I'm defending, in an open field maps mostly. And I was not even a polearmer, I was a 2h back then. Using my brain to produce strategies and counter strategies was fun. More fun than charging into the enemy to get shot. Hiding behind shielders when we were about to charge archers was fun. When I was a hoplite, protecting ranged groups from both enemy ranged and enemy cavalry was fun. Teamplay part of it was fun. fun fun fun. Your statement is wrong because it was fun.
XyNox i read your whole rant and i will explain very simply why you feel the way you do.Again you need to use your brain if you want to remove a valueble asset of the enemy. Let's say I want all terrorists to die and all goverments to crumble. Will I just grab a kitchen knife and charge the american president?
The infantry in the other team, they hate ranged. They just want them dead and gone.
Also the infantry in your team, they also hate ranged and want them dead.
Alot of infantry consider ranged to be enemies no matter which team they belong too.
If you apply this to the situations you described, they make sense.
I like how you can only look at extremes like people holding W into ranged camps, or "heroes" looking for duels.
Risk vs reward is important. You shouldn't be rewarded with anything for standing and doing things you can do like the enemy are AI. You should be challenged by players. You shouldn't be rewarded for simply taking part.
Don't get me wrong, ranged adds a layer to the game that is better off being there. But the implementation of the ranged mechanics are so poorly implemented, its like the devs for M&B spent all that time making a melee simulator and then tacked on some ranged in the last couple months of development. The damage you get for the inputs required AND the lack of risk vs reward puts them in the position where they need to be limited in some way
XyNox i read your whole rant and i will explain very simply why you feel the way you do.
The infantry in the other team, they hate ranged. They just want them dead and gone.
Also the infantry in your team, they also hate ranged and want them dead.
Alot of infantry consider ranged to be enemies no matter which team they belong too.
If you apply this to the situations you described, they make sense.
It was fun doing teamplay back when I was infantry. Grabbing a polearm to prevent getting any enemy cavalry to get near to the archer/xbowman I'm defending, in an open field maps mostly. And I was not even a polearmer, I was a 2h back then. Using my brain to produce strategies and counter strategies was fun. More fun than charging into the enemy to get shot. Hiding behind shielders when we were about to charge archers was fun. When I was a hoplite, protecting ranged groups from both enemy ranged and enemy cavalry was fun. Teamplay part of it was fun. fun fun fun. Your statement is wrong because it was fun.
This thread is counter-productive
How should i adapt to being shot in the back/head? My loomed plate helm doesnt stop me from being oneshot. And i hate shields because of autoblock, it dumbs the game down. They only block from the front anway.....
How should i adapt to being shot in the back/head? My loomed plate helm doesnt stop me from being oneshot. And i hate shields because of autoblock, it dumbs the game down. They only block from the front anway.....You should probably read the thread again and not take my post out of context...
Don't want to shamelessly self promote but I think this is a worse solution to kiting than the one I suggested ages ago. Same effect but less gimmicky and weird.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/how-to-make-archery-more-fun-for-everyone/msg588659/#msg588659
Shields remove 50% of the fun of melee combat, this is why alot of people dont want to use them.
Autoblock = zzZZZzzzzz
lol, the only reason somebody would HATE something would be due to getting scrubbed by it. Somebody else's build shouldn't get fucked because you can't deal with one aspect of medieval warfare. Archery is supposed to suck for people dumb enough not to get a shield and charge head on into a flight of arrows. I really don't think that somebody should be so frustrated by a pixelated enemy anyways. If the game pisses you off that bad then you should probably not play it.
Tindel just deserves to be ignored.
You're the reason the community places a funnel over 2h players' heads and collectively takes turns shitting down that funnel.
Just saying.
Also. Most battles in the medieval period had a skirmish phase, which occurred before the big movers and shakers of armies (i.e., heavy infantry and cavalry) met each other afield. The reason plate armor was developed and invested in was so the core of the army could advance during the skirmish phase, as in the battle at Agincourt (which showed how bad mud and rain were for heavy infantry).
Do you see them support their friendly archers so they dont get cav raped ? Rarely.
Do you see them support their friendly archers so they dont get cav raped ? Rarely.
I'm sure a majority of archers players would dislike this accuracy decrease cooldown even more than the arrows weight.
Archers NEEDS to move all the time : decreasing their distance to targets when things are cool (to have a better chance to hit), increasing their distance from the targets when things gets hot (to avoid being killed); they BARELY never stop moving, otherwise they get focused by other ranged or cavalry/melee players try to get to them.
Also one major fun point of being archers is the capacity to have an attack that have a quasi infinite range, so you can attack (shoot) all the time. As long as you have arrows, targets, and confidence in your aiming. If you had to WAIT (not attack) everytime you want to shoot one arrow, just because you needed to run to/away from a situation, it would be an even greater hit to the gameplay of ranged.
You would have to be a kind of "static" tower of shooting to aim precisely, or stick to being mobile but not able to shoot as soon as you're ready. Would need to anticipate and choose really good position of firing. Not necessarily a bad thing, but the cRPG battlefield moves VERY VERY fast, archers need a way to stay handy and able to run.
herm ... Why can't archers hold the bow drawn more than 0.5 sec ? +1 for realism ... Longbow is hard to draw , but that's not a ballista ffs !! BUFF !!
The short accurate firing time windows are a great part of what makes archery hard to master in this game. Without it, the timing element is almost eliminated and you basically get a 2001 shooter with heavy drop (not so heavy when it comes to loomed rus or long bows) with targets that can't shoot back.
And then there are crossbows.
Well, I think crossbows are easier to use too. But they don't have as much mobility and are pretty screwed when there is no cover. Ever wondered why infantry rarely complains about xbows but a lot about archers (yet many archers do try to redirect complains to xbows) ? Because the first ones even though they got better damage, better missile speed, better accuracy, less drop and better melee stats, you can actually charge and fight them after they shoot.
Until you put them on a horse. And with the recent weight nerfs to arrows, you might as well be stationary since you're not going to outrun anyone wearing anything short of the heaviest armor.
I kite with 3 ath, rus bow and 2 set of bodkins. You know, hiting your arrows let you kite. If you're a bad shot I guess you need to be invulnerable to infantry :rolleyes:
I kite with 3 ath, rus bow and 2 set of bodkins. You know, hiting your arrows let you kite. If you're a bad shot I guess you need to be invulnerable to infantry :rolleyes:
Archers are supposed to kill enemies by firing arrows at them, not engaging them in melee. Basically what you're suggesting is a class that can match the inf in close quarter fighting while at the same time being able to snipe from the distance.
You're always bitching about how crpg is about teamwork, well why cant archers be a support class, firing at other archers and supporting the inf? Why do they have to be able to go rambo-mode and kill inf and cav one on one?
Ever wondered why infantry rarely complains about xbows but a lot about archers (yet many archers do try to redirect complains to xbows) ?
Archers are supposed to kill enemies by firing arrows at them, not engaging them in melee. Basically what you're suggesting is a class that can match the inf in close quarter fighting while at the same time being able to snipe from the distance.
You're always bitching about how crpg is about teamwork, well why cant archers be a support class, firing at other archers and supporting the inf? Why do they have to be able to go rambo-mode and kill inf and cav one on one?
I really can't blame anyone not defending his ranged teammates. Not because people are supposed to hate them (I don't hate anyone in my own team, except maybe excessive teamhitters), but because standing behind is extremely boring, compared to combat. This is a game after all. Even if it is not going to make them win (despite "efforts" like multi to force people to play to win), people will mostly play the way that is more fun for them.
Anybody can post that they kite with such a shitty build, but feel free to post a video of you consistently kiting over and over again (as in, more than one round.)
It is easy finding an idea and posting it, but sometimes hard to implement. So you need to think who will even create this kiting balance?
Surely the devs have better things to do making the new super cool battlegrounds game of the decade n then some.
As much as i don't like kiting, i want them having 100% of focus and time building this new battlegrounds game than taking 3 weeks+ to implement this and having less focus on B:G
Well that is a nice way of excusing them for their behavior, but it doesn't fit observed facts.
Fact: Teams at end round tonight was 1 HX on one side, several melee with spears/2handers, etc and a foot archer and foot xbow. Did the melee stand guard over the xbow while it was reloading to shoot the HX down? Where they perhaps guarding the archer so he didn't get bumped to death? Oh hell no, they were running around in circles 50 feet away from their ranged trying to chase the HX while on foot! This went on for at least 2 minutes, even after the xbow was asking for them to protect him so he could reload and shoot the bastard's horse down. All the while the HX kept shooting and bumping the archer and xbow.
Sound like fun? No, of course it wasn't. But rather than a discussion of how the melee needed to use actual teamplay and tactics, the discussion turned to how the HX should be nerfed :rolleyes:
they were running around in circles 50 feet away from their ranged trying to chase the HX while on foot! This went on for at least 2 minutes, even after the xbow was asking for them to protect him so he could reload and shoot the bastard's horse down.
[...]
But rather than a discussion of how the melee needed to use actual teamplay and tactics, the discussion turned to how the HX should be nerfed
you don't really need all that crazy amounts of accuracy when you're one of those my old friends like XyNox who basically only shots people at facehug range.
I shoot you at facehug distance because you are trying to facehug me :lol:How the hell else should I hit you with my tiny espada?
Havent seen you on EU4 lately. Where the goat have you been ?
Until you put them on a horse.Which, funnily enough, is the only form of xbower besides an SB my old friend who people complain about.
How the hell else should I hit you with my tiny espada?
Playing other games + native + stonethrowing on EU_1 + HTing on EU_1 due to it being buffed insanely there. Also, I do not appreciate replacing the word hell with goat, I'll stab you next time I see you on the server.
Aww man I didnt know Im sorry. Let me buy you a meal as a sign of good will. Found this really cool place the other day:You horrible! HORRIBLE! person.(click to show/hide)
Aww man I didnt know Im sorry. Let me buy you a meal as a sign of good will. Found this really cool place the other day:Mmmm, i might go with you xynox me and lizard love that goat meat.(click to show/hide)
Aww man I didnt know Im sorry. Let me buy you a meal as a sign of good will. Found this really cool place the other day:(click to show/hide)
You horrible! HORRIBLE! person.
Let me share a little story with you.
It was my first day after retiring to an archer and I had finally managed to get enough powerdraw to use a bow.
I gleefully walked up to the alley my team was defending and positioned myself behind our infantry and was waiting for the enemies to close in.
After waiting a short period a single two hander approached us, the team decided to charge him so I joined them eager to fight (Shoot).
As soon as we got fairly close I drew my bow ready to shoot, unfortunately was charging to fast. By the time I had by bow almost drawn he had managed to run almost directly into me, I was too slow to run and too weak to fight but I wasn't worried, my team was right there with me
..... And just then my entire team took a few steps back and watched me get slaughtered, then casually resumed stepped back into the fight as nothing had happened.
You know why people rarely complain about archers like Tenne, Bagge or ROBINHOOD?
It's rather simple really - you rarely see those guys run away. And that's all the melee people are asking for... if you get caught, don't run but stand your ground and (most likely) die.
Robinhood, really? :lol:Most of the time I see him running with the horde, hiding behind some shielder or something. Not really kiting if you actually run with the mob...
While Tenne and Bagge rarely kited, Robinhood did nothing but kite!
Most of the time I see him running with the horde, hiding behind some shielder or something. Not really kiting if you actually run with the mob...
Maybe before, dunno, it's not that I am stalking him or anything :wink:
I thought your post was well written and spot on Tenne.You can put a shield on your back, you know... I see a lot of 2h do that: Approaching with shield in their hand and 2h lolstabweapon on their back and switching when close enough to engage. They adapted... just saying.
Its harder from the other side though, how does a infantry player approach it?
Getting a ranged weapon? That kinda means everyone should be ranged in the end.
Get a shield? The usual comment you get.....
Works if you are 1h and for a couple of the polearms, 2handers are screwed.
I play 1h but id much rather block manually than just having autoblock from a shield.
So its either become ranged hybrid or sacrificing half of the melee combat system.
I thought your post was well written and spot on Tenne.
Its harder from the other side though, how does a infantry player approach it?
Getting a ranged weapon? That kinda means everyone should be ranged in the end.
Get a shield? The usual comment you get.....
Works if you are 1h and for a couple of the polearms, 2handers are screwed.
I play 1h but id much rather block manually than just having autoblock from a shield.
So its either become ranged hybrid or sacrificing half of the melee combat system.
You know why people rarely complain about archers like Tenne, Bagge or ROBINHOOD?
It's rather simple really - you rarely see those guys run away. And that's all the melee people are asking for... if you get caught, don't run but stand your ground and (most likely) die.
Well that is a nice way of excusing them for their behavior, but it doesn't fit observed facts.
Fact: Teams at end round tonight was 1 HX on one side, several melee with spears/2handers, etc and a foot archer and foot xbow. Did the melee stand guard over the xbow while it was reloading to shoot the HX down? Where they perhaps guarding the archer so he didn't get bumped to death? Oh hell no, they were running around in circles 50 feet away from their ranged trying to chase the HX while on foot! This went on for at least 2 minutes, even after the xbow was asking for them to protect him so he could reload and shoot the bastard's horse down. All the while the HX kept shooting and bumping the archer and xbow.
Sound like fun? No, of course it wasn't. But rather than a discussion of how the melee needed to use actual teamplay and tactics, the discussion turned to how the HX should be nerfed :rolleyes:
The more threads like this that pop up, and the more replies I read, the more I play the class in question and the less I actually kite and shoot the more I feel it is the mentality of the player base that is the "problem".
The tools are there, people just ignore them, it is completely viable to have a two slot bow, one stack of arrows and a decent melee weapon, be accurate and have a reasonable defence when fighting close quarters. People just don't want to do that, they would prefer to run and shoot because they have the advantage there, and to be honest, I don't blame them.
I try to defend friendly ranged whenever I can with my 2H and polearm alts. However most archers move way too much to be defended effectively. 2H lolstab is long, but it can't cover a archer standing even 3m away. You have to be standing right next to him and if the archer or archers move just a few meters away from you while you are not watching, enemy cav will seize the occasion and oneshoot the archer. I wish archers would consider this when they notice they have cover and try to stay still as much as possible even if it makes them an easier target for enemy ranged.
That said, it's really really rare to see anyone covering anyone on EU1 which is what makes cav so damn easy. If you have a long ass weapon, and your team is steamrolling the enemy. Just stand back and watch out for cav (or ninjas). Sure you won't get points nor kills, but imo it's still fun. Cavalry doesn't expect anyone to do that ;)
Yeah if you are not a ranged character you should obviously carry a shield.
If you dont carry a shield means you want to get shot! You are practically asking for it.
I see it now! I see the light!
Carrying a shield makes no significant difference though. Ranged players gifted with a brain will wait until you are forced to turn your back/side on them. Also you are forced to block and be pinned down. Blocking projectiles after they are shot only works with throwing.
Nordwolf, sorry, i use thread in order not to spam threads.
i've been playing for an year, and now returned to archery. and what i see: no difference between rank0 and rank3 arrows, except the number of arrows o_O
no improvement in bow damage with ranks (but it's ok) bows messed up. bow is better than tatar etc
and i couldnt find complains on forum (i actually didnt lookfor them so carefully)
the question is: are these changes (in arow ranking mainly) normal to archers? what do they think of this? and will there be othe changes that will bring back the old conditions?
sorry for bad english
The damage as it is now is what the loomed bows and arrows did pre-patch. It was a minor buff to archers with looms and a major buff to archers without looms.yap. no point to loom arrows. loomed archers are now in the bad i think. but +3 arrows are still in demand, wtf