cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 12:06:15 am

Title: so....?
Post by: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 12:06:15 am
So..... tell me my dear friends.... skyladders is allowed or not ??
IF no pls explain me this.....
http://zapodaj.net/7029bb0c3f1cc.bmp.html
http://zapodaj.net/933859d5a0206.bmp.html
http://zapodaj.net/ea1fb613c3761.bmp.html                       <------- this is the best.......
http://zapodaj.net/4356a7bd52ff8.bmp.html                        <------- ladders on every tower.....

IF yes.... ok .... but pls dont cry next time ("fucking greys used skyladders, ban them all") because as you know we are the best in bug this game...
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Latvian on March 09, 2013, 12:15:48 am
none of these is so called skyladder.All those ladders on edge of wall poking out of castle is retarded as hell but antiUIF started to use it cuz UIF side was not punished in any way, so it must be legal.(fuck common sense and physics  :D )Maybe if both sides agreed to not use such ladders we all would have more fun and disagreements in upcoming sterat battles.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 12:35:44 am
http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/crpg-ladder-simulator/msg671645/#msg671645
look on the last post pls. this what you do is skyladders, you have million admins but nobody say something.... i want know why?

latvian - UiF dont use skyladders, lets see last battles:
yalen -  today -  no skyladders from Greys side   
early yalen - yesterday - no skyladders from Greys side   
Maras castle - our(greys) last attack - we started use it ONLY because your side break alllllllllllllllllll strategus rules...... look on this movie.... your one ladder stop our 100 ladders .... we couldn't destroy it and we couldn't put new ladders to attack you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0sI4Z8oSMk&feature=youtu.be   <---- ofc  Sb berg should be banned but i dont have time to make topic
http://zapodaj.net/692af3c0da2d5.bmp.html                                        <---- efect
"Maybe if both sides agreed to not use such ladders we all would have more fun and disagreements in upcoming sterat battles." i completely agree with you.... on that kind of battles one admin could be on spec and watch.... record this guy and ban
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Osiris on March 09, 2013, 12:39:39 am
A ladder is ok as long as one side is touching ground (ground being the floor or a wall)

what isn't ok is ladder on ladder when the second ladder doesn't touch anything else except the first ladder
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 12:46:46 am
so if ladder is on the "ground" is allowed ? no matter if gravity should fall this ladder?  i want get 100% correct answer

and i want remember you topic from 18 December  http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/ridicules/
on this topic your point of view was completely other
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Rhekimos on March 09, 2013, 12:47:45 am
Those ladders are lame. But they are within the rules.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/


          1) Ladders
                    1.1) Floating ladders. You are not allowed to stay on floating ladders. If for some reason your ladder becomes floating, you are to get off it, even if it means suicide.
                    1.2) Ladderplacement. For now there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, so they are allowed. (as long as you keep the other rules in mind)
                    1.3) Siege-equipment on ladders is not allowed. This includes using siege shields, other ladders and everything you can make with a construction-site.
                    1.4) Ladders in open battles (anti cav) are allowed as long as the ladder is legit according to rule 1.2.
                    1.5) Cavalry is allowed to use ladders.


Edit: This one http://zapodaj.net/ea1fb613c3761.bmp.html looks like double laddering which is not allowed.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 09, 2013, 12:49:43 am
Is stupid imo, as unrealistic and it actually stops attackers putting down ladders in some cases because it gets in the way creating skyladders.  And we all now the skyladder patrol is very active  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on March 09, 2013, 12:51:10 am
yep, we cried for help during a strat battle because we had to get up a wall with 20 ladders floating above our heads from where UIF my old friendchers were raining arrows upon us. the admins had to tell us it wasnt banable :/
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 12:52:15 am
+1 for skyladder patrol xD
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 09, 2013, 12:56:30 am
Quote from: no_rules_just_play on March 09, 2013, 12:51:10 am
yep, we cried for help during a strat battle because we had to get up a wall with 20 ladders floating above our heads from where UIF my old friendchers were raining arrows upon us. the admins had to tell us it wasnt banable :/

but we can agree that it is lame as hell. the common sens rule doesnt really apply
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Smoothrich on March 09, 2013, 12:57:31 am
ladders were already removed from battle and siege, I'm pretty sure we've gotten to the point they need to be removed from Strategus
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 01:11:36 am
from strategus???? so how take any city or castle??
ofc we have siege tower, but when we want use it defenders are focus on it. so is useless.... ofc someone can destry it from catapult too and then attacker lost 5-8 min  to build another

skyladder patrol is good idea, first tell what is skyladder: ladder where gravity should works or ladder on ladder   and after this, this patrol should catch guys who break this rules
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Osiris on March 09, 2013, 01:21:50 am
Quote from: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 12:46:46 am
so if ladder is on the "ground" is allowed ? no matter if gravity should fall this ladder?  i want get 100% correct answer

and i want remember you topic from 18 December  http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/ridicules/
on this topic your point of view was completely other

Erm i didn't post in that thread? and looking at latvians posts in that thread he didnt talk about sky ladders.. to which posts/ point of view are you trying to link to?
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Smoothrich on March 09, 2013, 01:30:57 am
Quote from: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 01:11:36 am
from strategus???? so how take any city or castle??
ofc we have siege tower, but when we want use it defenders are focus on it. so is useless.... ofc someone can destry it from catapult too and then attacker lost 5-8 min  to build another

skyladder patrol is good idea, first tell what is skyladder: ladder where gravity should works or ladder on ladder   and after this, this patrol should catch guys who break this rules

Yes ladders are useful for city and castle sieges, offensively and for defensive patchworks in getting around the map.  But there is SO much bullshit involved with ladders, and people are just abusing them more and more worse every battle.  I think the cons outweigh the pros now. 

If the game had functional battering rams and a reworked ladder system (for logical wall placement to scale up castle walls ONLY) I'd much rather see the current ladders completely removed.  Caltrops, stakes, and ditches should be added as fortification options for open maps.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Zox_Fury on March 09, 2013, 01:35:26 am
Quote from: Rhekimos on March 09, 2013, 12:47:45 am
Those ladders are lame. But they are within the rules.

http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/strategus-rules/


          1) Ladders
                    1.1) Floating ladders. You are not allowed to stay on floating ladders. If for some reason your ladder becomes floating, you are to get off it, even if it means suicide.
                    1.2) Ladderplacement. For now there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, so they are allowed. (as long as you keep the other rules in mind)
                    1.3) Siege-equipment on ladders is not allowed. This includes using siege shields, other ladders and everything you can make with a construction-site.
                    1.4) Ladders in open battles (anti cav) are allowed as long as the ladder is legit according to rule 1.2.
                    1.5) Cavalry is allowed to use ladders.


Edit: This one http://zapodaj.net/ea1fb613c3761.bmp.html looks like double laddering which is not allowed.

To answer to your edit it was a crusader ladder. And this ladder was used to destroy our ladders and our forward base. So we could say it was a crucial ladder in levitation which gave us a handicap
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Rhekimos on March 09, 2013, 01:37:43 am
Quote from: Zox_Fury on March 09, 2013, 01:35:26 am
To answer to your edit it was a crusader ladder. And this ladder was used to destroy our ladders

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

Edit: Just saw your edit.

Quote from: Zox_Fury on March 09, 2013, 01:35:26 am
So we could say it was a crucial ladder in levitation which gave us a handicap

I can't agree that it could be called a floating ladder. It is touching ground from where it was thrown. The angle does look silly though.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 01:39:10 am
so maybe let only attacker use ladders but for defenders add new things like barricade
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: no_rules_just_play on March 09, 2013, 01:40:15 am
Quote from: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 09, 2013, 12:56:30 am
but we can agree that it is lame as hell. the common sens rule doesnt really apply
i totally agree, but im afraid that it will never stop. its like the hitting through doors, admins never were told to ban for it and people kept doing it.

its like this:

it seems like there is an error, anyway i tried to start the video at 3m48
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Le_Mikz on March 09, 2013, 01:40:43 am
Quote from: Smoothrich on March 09, 2013, 01:30:57 am
Yes ladders are useful for city and castle sieges, offensively and for defensive patchworks in getting around the map.  But there is SO much bullshit involved with ladders, and people are just abusing them more and more worse every battle.  I think the cons outweigh the pros now. 

If the game had functional battering rams and a reworked ladder system (for logical wall placement to scale up castle walls ONLY) I'd much rather see the current ladders completely removed.  Caltrops, stakes, and ditches should be added as fortification options for open maps.

 Removing ladders totally from battles and sieges would be other kind of abuse.

 We just need clear rules here so that everyone knows what is allowed and what is forbidden. Its easy also to punish then if needed.
 
 So please admins make clear rules here. :)
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Zox_Fury on March 09, 2013, 01:45:02 am
Rules are clear but in the fever of the battle brains think only efficiency.  :mrgreen:

Each camp has ppl who used sometimes exploit//bug to help their team.And to be honnest our chain of command asked us to destroy systematically sky ladder this night
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Smoothrich on March 09, 2013, 01:47:34 am
Ladders in their current state are impossible to manage or administrate, and people will exploit the fuck out of the rules forever because ladders are so abusable.  They need to be redesigned or removed. 
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Casimir on March 09, 2013, 02:05:26 am
Yeah ladders are bugged to such an extent that it takes the piss.

Some of those look a little dodgy so i will ask the guys who are commanding on our side to keep an eye out for it.

I commend your leadership for ensuring you do not use sky ladders, especially after the first siege where they were so prolific.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Harpag on March 09, 2013, 02:58:08 am
Haboe put a lot of effort in preparing these rules. That's right, it's not perfect, but why rules must be done by a volunteer when we have badmins and devs with tools like damn patch? All this situation has much in common with hitting through closed doors. An incredible phenomenon who accompanied us since version 1.0 lol Is it really not possible to improve some things through code fixes?

Players are just players from this or from other side - no matter - simply want to win. In my opinion badmins should make these rules, and devs to implement. Our quarrel is a result of their negligence or laziness more than effect of our retardation, but still they are able only to bans...
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Butan on March 09, 2013, 03:33:50 am
Only bannable ladders are ladders which are thrown from another ladders AFAIK.

I've been on fights where we (and I) abused the fuck out of ladders on defense (while they still had their base on solid ground), so shall they...
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Le_Mikz on March 09, 2013, 04:52:55 pm
Quote from: Butan on March 09, 2013, 03:33:50 am
Only bannable ladders are ladders which are thrown from another ladders AFAIK.

I've been on fights where we (and I) abused the fuck out of ladders on defense (while they still had their base on solid ground), so shall they...

 Ok so lets spam ladders!!! ::D Good we have results here... Everybody uses ladders the way they can ever imagine!! *ironic
Until this is fixed...
 
 So stop saying "sky ladders" etc in battles..
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: kinngrimm on March 09, 2013, 05:40:45 pm
as already mentioned by me in the rules thread of Haboe.
Through the attacks on Slezkh Castle and Chalbek Castle, i learned the hard way what is used, not punished and therefor ok to use. Those ladders in those sieges of UIF haven't been skyladders but highly arguably if allowed to be used that way as long there is no implementation of better code for the workings of ladders.
Therefor my way to push the issue is and was like in Hrus Castle Defense to use it as well constantly.

The types of ladders i am speaking about are those f.e. put towards a wall section while still on ground and also would touch on a second part ground(like the wall sections). Physicly they are impossible, but hell it is not punishable when you do it, which made me as least as furrious as you seem to be here.
Those types of ladders lead then to
a) defenders get superrior shooting angles/positions
b) disallow/neglect enemies to put ladders at those positions(especially on narrow maps or keeps this can be a bitch)

I know that Erasmus agrees on this aproach to use things which may be debatable to get awarness for it and as Harpag said it is a game mechanic issue afterall aslong there are no clear rules to follow.

Overall all, i myself will be for our sides kind of a ladder patrol as i also put them often. When i get aware of a ladder not conform with the current ruleset, i will destroy it. Still mistakes still can happen and some dudes never cared to read the new rules. Therefor i would suggest to the admins that they first call out any ladders which needs to be destroyed and only if they make out a repeated offender would make him aware of it and when then still not followed also consider kick/ban.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Rogue on March 09, 2013, 08:15:44 pm
How about this: a ladder automatically disintegrates if the first ~120cm of both ends do not rest on a scene prop once its deployment animation is over. No idea how hard this would be to implement or if it would be possible at all.

Would solve the problem once and for all without the need for complicated rules and an end to the endless bickering from both sides, about who did what first and who is a worse exploiter etc.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Zox_Fury on March 10, 2013, 03:18:40 pm
Hey ,

I took some screenshots(cause Go are always accused) yesterday to show how Go are evil cheaters and how the holy Alliance respect every rules :-p(joke inside ladders are totally bugged sometimes and i blame noone but don t blame UIF exclusively please)

Btw you could see that skyladders are really numerous but noone cried yesterday about that in our side(except me at the end).

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)

and the best one for the end
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Osiris on March 10, 2013, 03:27:51 pm
yes the ladders near that double roof went kind of buggy.

but once again those are not sky ladders.

Ladders are currently allowed if one end is touching the ground/castle

From Haboes post

Use of siege equipment:
(click to show/hide)

A skyladder is a ladder touching nothing. so these are not sky ladders
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Haboe on March 10, 2013, 04:46:29 pm

Quote from: Zox_Fury on March 09, 2013, 01:35:26 am
To answer to your edit it was a crusader ladder. And this ladder was used to destroy our ladders and our forward base. So we could say it was a crucial ladder in levitation which gave us a handicap

So they trew a ladder down from their wall... That makes it a legit ladder by the rules...


Quote from: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 01:39:10 am
so maybe let only attacker use ladders but for defenders add new things like barricade

There are far too many unreachable places in the castles and towns for that to happen. It will basically turn out in attackers laddering to unreachable roofs and keeps and shoot down from them...
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Adoptagoat on March 10, 2013, 11:17:02 pm
fuck.  I agree with smoothrich.  The current ladder rules are pretty lacking.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Haboe on March 10, 2013, 11:47:02 pm
But clear, and easy to enforce...

If they just made impossible ladders (defy gravity) to crash when deployed, things would be solved by game mechanics.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Kamirane on March 11, 2013, 03:52:03 am
If there would be a leather ladder and a wooden ladder and the wooden leather touches the leather ladder, the leather ladder reconize that the wooden leather has no leather on the ladder?  :?
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Segd on March 11, 2013, 05:06:04 am
Quote from: Jacu on March 09, 2013, 12:06:15 am
So..... tell me my dear friends.... skyladders is allowed or not ??
IF no pls explain me this.....
http://zapodaj.net/7029bb0c3f1cc.bmp.html
http://zapodaj.net/933859d5a0206.bmp.html
http://zapodaj.net/ea1fb613c3761.bmp.html                       <------- this is the best.......
http://zapodaj.net/4356a7bd52ff8.bmp.html                        <------- ladders on every tower.....

IF yes.... ok .... but pls dont cry next time ("fucking greys used skyladders, ban them all") because as you know we are the best in bug this game...
We did the same at the Chalbek, Etrosq & many other battles.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Jacu on March 11, 2013, 03:07:14 pm
when everybody did this so why we cant??    we are worse or something ??
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 11, 2013, 04:56:14 pm
Quote from: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 09, 2013, 12:56:30 am
but we can agree that it is lame as hell. the common sens rule doesnt really apply

It's not just lame, it prevents the attackers from putting up ladders to the walls when a ladder is above it.

You could technically cut off access to a castle's walls (from attackers putting up ladders) to a large portion of the castle if the defenders wanted to be really gay about it.
Title: Re: so....?
Post by: Butan on March 11, 2013, 05:36:10 pm
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on March 11, 2013, 04:56:14 pm
It's not just lame, it prevents the attackers from putting up ladders to the walls when a ladder is above it.

You could technically cut off access to a castle's walls (from attackers putting up ladders) to a large portion of the castle if the defenders wanted to be really gay about it.


Maybe not a large portion, due to ladders limit per map, but definitely defend critical areas; still possible to circumvent this with smart size/positionning of besieging ladders and utilisation of catapults (or just using ladders where there is no enemy ladders in the way).