cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Teeth on March 02, 2013, 07:33:06 pm

Title: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 02, 2013, 07:33:06 pm
Okay, seemingly the other thread about the matter got deleted. I wrote a huge reply for it. We should be able to maturely discuss the problem and the one sided behaviour of some admins on this forum. At least have the decency to lock it and provide a reason for the lock at the end. I don't know who deleted the last thread, but I would like to know a reason. Completely removing threads smells like censorship and I ain't having none of that. So here goes.

Now I fully agree that it is completely stupid that after retreat the defenders have to go hunt down the attackers. In my opinion when the attackers retreat the battle should end, right there. They don't however, so we have to deal with it.

Don't give me this hypocritical bullshit though.

'Attackers have to attack'
'Leave the server if you can't attack'
'If you don't attack you will get kicked'
'Stop delaying'


It's all true, but the defenders on this battle have done the exact same thing themselves half a dozen times that I witnessed alone.

Everytime you attacked any castle, you holed yourselves up in some tower after retreating with a bunch of great mauls and the defenders lost a 100 tickets trying to kill the last 30 of yours. Happened in Uxhal and Etrosq castle for example. In fact that is even worse, because you had the possibility to attack but instead you waited for us to come get you. We had no ladders, we even tried breaking down the gate.

What a surprise however, that there never was any talk of leaving the server, or kicking people when you guys we're doing it. Grey and DRZ do not have a single admin, so they took their loss, attacked you while you camped a favourable position as the attacking team. I am pretty sure you had an admin present for almost every siege that occured in, there were like 3 now, but no one was kicked for not attacking when you were doing it.

At least have the decency to apply the same standards to your own clan as the other side as an admin. We will try to get a Byzantium admin on next time you try to pull this shit, and I can hear the crying already. You should have jumped down and you should have killed us. You were jumping down fine for the entire duration of the battle, you destroyed the only ladder we had left yourselves, by jumping out of the castle. Besides the only attempt you did was done very poorly, with people almost intentionally missing the spikes. You guys jumped over the battlements instead of on it and then carefully dropping. All in all a clear attempt to pretend that you guys were in an impossible position, even though you jumping out worked fine earlier on. There were also better spots to jump down from.

I even bothered to siege the castle in a Native singleplayer game. Might be hard to see, but I can assure you that you would survive jumping down there in a non retard manner.
(click to show/hide)

I just expect that you will kick yourselves too when you are not making any moves to attack in the next siege you do, you won't of course, but I will be noting the presence of Erzengel, Cyrus and Everkistus in those sieges and I hope one of you will find some objectivity in himself.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Korgoth on March 02, 2013, 07:38:36 pm
Yeah the amount of castles that I've defended where the Coalition or Templars have retreated and bunkered up in the one tower that they managed to take. We had to just deal with it and get everyone together to kill the remaining guys.

The rules should apply to everyone, but ofcourse bias admins are just going to stay bias.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: DaveUKR on March 02, 2013, 07:40:58 pm
Falling damage in native and in crpg are different AFAIK (and ofc it's higher in crpg). You saw what happened when defenders jumped out in the best spot - half of them died (including me with full hp). I see nothing wrong with admins kicking you because defenders should not go out when they have no ways to go out without getting damaged. I take here a neutral spot and clearly believe admins did right.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Smoothrich on March 02, 2013, 07:44:46 pm
This is one of the issues that makes people absolutely furious in Strategus, and 90 percent of admins seem to be biased as shit in this regard, at least the ones involved in factions.

Regardless, I never hestitated to kick people regardless of faction if they were delaying as attackers, its just poor taste and explicitly against the rules.  This doesn't stop a lot of clans/players from crying abuse no matter what you do.  So well, you can't fault any admins for kicking people who did the same thing.  If they were hypocrites about these rules in the past, honestly what else do you expect from people like FCC, Fallen, Mercs, etc.  Not even trolling, these guys are the ones who complain the most about other people but pretend it doesn't apply to them.

Most interesting is that you said there are no admins in DRZ or Grey.  Are there any UIF admins at all?  Pretty funny since Eastern Europe is probably nearly half the entire cRPG community, with many players probably having language barriers.  Turkish players as well.

Basically, the moral of this story is Give Admin To the Turks, Russians, and Poles.  No Administration without Representation
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Chasey on March 02, 2013, 07:45:54 pm
Throughout the battle defenders were jumping out and landing on the spikes, some taking no damage and destroying our ladders. Its only when we retreated that  you stopped...
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Royans on March 02, 2013, 07:49:10 pm
Throughout the battle defenders were jumping out and landing on the spikes, some taking no damage and destroying our ladders. Its only when we retreated that  you stopped...

+1 for destroying ladder, there was no problem for them to jump down.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Abay on March 02, 2013, 07:58:07 pm
I remember a battle between lljk vs an AI castle 2 years ago. lljk had no ladder anymore and an admin did insist on that lljk had to attack. in these times, there were one unbreakable ladder in every siege. so they attacked there. they lost many troops than they expected but what they could do. so, in my experience the action was not wrong. here is same thing but there is no unbreakable ladder here, so the kicking serie is next step to do. who was in that battle? it was like 5 hours  :lol:
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Rhekimos on March 02, 2013, 08:05:06 pm
Yeah the amount of castles that I've defended where the Coalition or Templars have retreated and bunkered up in the one tower that they managed to take. We had to just deal with it and get everyone together to kill the remaining guys.

The rules should apply to everyone, but ofcourse bias admins are just going to stay bias.

There is a bit of a difference in staying inside the enemy castle and in your own spawn. But don't let me ruin a complaint about bias.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Erzengel on March 02, 2013, 08:06:57 pm
Throughout the battle defenders were jumping out and landing on the spikes, some taking no damage and destroying our ladders. Its only when we retreated that  you stopped...

Yes, some of us jumped down the walls to destroy the last ladder. I also did it twice and lost about 70-90% hp with each jump (I was landing on the spikes btw). The battle ended and you lost. Even if there is a gate, defenders are not forced to get outside their castle. We even tried to attack you but 50% of us died from jumping down and the other 50% had only very few hp left and were easily killed. You can't seriously expect us to lose about 300+ troops to kill the last 40 survivors.

cmp confirmed that we did the right thing. This was my first battle where this happened, I can assure you that I will also kick my team if this happens again the other way around.

I have no idea who deleted the thread btw. Perhaps it was Ronald himself?
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: cmp on March 02, 2013, 08:08:10 pm
I don't understand why defenders brought up the jumping stuff. If you are defending you can decide to stay in your castle, and you certainly don't need an excuse for it.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Schmackofatz on March 02, 2013, 08:18:53 pm
I don't understand why defenders brought up the jumping stuff. If you are defending you can decide to stay in your castle, and you certainly don't need an excuse for it.

f.e.: if the attackers retreat and camp a tower in the castle with their remaining players and the defenders do not choose to attack them, they have to attack or be punished the same way?   
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Royans on March 02, 2013, 08:19:35 pm
Well, so, if you are attacking, u can wait and siege, until ppl dont have any more food, and they die! wololo
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 02, 2013, 08:22:22 pm
Falling damage in native and in crpg are different AFAIK (and ofc it's higher in crpg). You saw what happened when defenders jumped out in the best spot - half of them died (including me with full hp). I see nothing wrong with admins kicking you because defenders should not go out when they have no ways to go out without getting damaged. I take here a neutral spot and clearly believe admins did right.
The point is that the distance from the wall to the ground is lower there than the spot where you jumped out, regardless of falling damage settings, jeez. And yes, we did see what happened when a bunch of you jumped out like a bunch of retards intentionally getting as much height as possible and missing the spikes intentionally, I am sure you all felt mighty clever in your little channel.

Your attempt to get out of the castle then had a failure rate of about 80%, while I have seen people jumping on the spikes without even getting fall damage, or minor damage throughout the entire battle. I have survived falling from the siege tower with 40% hp, while the ramp edge was exactly the same height as your battlements, and that was far from the best spot.

I don't understand why defenders brought up the jumping stuff. If you are defending you can decide to stay in your castle, and you certainly don't need an excuse for it.
Sadly you don't know shit about the usual course of action of these same admins when they are on the attacking side. I fully agree with this point, but just because one clan has admins should not mean that they get to camp as attackers while the other clan does not.

I think we can all agree that having to go kill the attackers as defenders is stupid, the issue here is that the same thing resulted in camping till the defenders killed them for one side, while it resulted in the kicking of all the attackers for the other side.

There is a bit of a difference in staying inside the enemy castle and in your own spawn. But don't let me ruin a complaint about bias.
Indeed, when you are inside the enemy's castle you at least have the opportunity to attack, while we hadn't. Yet I remember clearly losing about a 100 tickets when trying to clear out a tower as defenders in Uxhal, while the timer was down to -4 minutes. The same principle applies, attackers should attack, defenders should defend.

Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 02, 2013, 08:22:46 pm
You are delaying if you can't possibly attack, it's delaying and against the rules. Hiding in some tower as the last attackers alive is however, also delaying. There is some Eastern admin abuse in strat battles *cough* mustikki *cough*, and not kicking their own side is some of it, this however, isn't.

Teeth next time screen it and report them for being delaying bastards.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 02, 2013, 08:23:09 pm
If Attackers camp, the defenders automatically win, right, due to the timer running out? Or are we talking about when the timer has already ran out and it is "after the fact" for defender clean-up of remaining attackers?


Note that I was not there, I'm just trying to figure out what happened.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Abay on March 02, 2013, 08:28:18 pm
The funny thing is people still talking the issue while the truth is certain. Stop being professional like this. Do your clans pay money to you for this?

So, accept that kicking them was not wrong...

Edit: The best is.... After timer reach ZERO, defenders win automatically and the server kicks everyone out.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Royans on March 02, 2013, 08:29:54 pm
If Attackers camp, the defenders automatically win, right, due to the timer running out? Or are we talking about when the timer has already ran out and it is "after the fact" for defender clean-up of remaining attackers?


Note that I was not there, I'm just trying to figure out what happened.

Remaining attackers
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Korgoth on March 02, 2013, 08:30:07 pm
If Attackers camp, the defenders automatically win, right, due to the timer running out? Or are we talking about when the timer has already ran out and it is "after the fact" for defender clean-up of remaining attackers?


Note that I was not there, I'm just trying to figure out what happened.

If the timer runs out it says the attackers retreat. Which then the defenders have to kill the remaining attackers (Which could be the whole team), which constantly happens is they bunker up in a tower.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 02, 2013, 08:32:06 pm
If Attackers camp, the defenders automatically win, right, due to the timer running out?


Note that I was not there, I'm just trying to figure out what happened.
I'd wish that was the case. As clearly as I can put it, the attackers retreated and held outside, while having no ladders remaining. The defenders did not come out to kill them, but instead kicked the entire attacking team.

Which is a fair course of action, if it weren't for the dozen similar situations where the same clans that were now defending camped as attackers after retreating and made the defenders lose considerable amount of tickets by waiting for them to come kill them. Of course way after the timer had run out and without a single admin even opening his mouth, even though they were surely present. Please note that Grey and DRZ do not have admins.

So once more:
The problem was not the kicking in itself, but the fact that this kicking never occured when similar situations occured the other way around
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Abay on March 02, 2013, 08:35:44 pm
I'd wish that was the case. As clearly as I can put it, the attackers retreated and held outside, while having no ladders remaining. The defenders did not come out to kill them, but instead kicked the entire attacking team.

Which is a fair course of action, if it weren't for the dozen similar situations where the same clans that were now defending camped as attackers after retreating and made the defenders lose considerable amount of tickets by waiting for them to come kill them. Of course way after the timer had run out and without a single admin even opening his mouth, even though they were surely present. Please note that Grey and DRZ do not have admins.

So once more:
The problem was not the kicking in itself, but the fact that this kicking never occured when similar situations occured the other way around

What if they dont come out and 100 players decide to wait forever there then die in 3 dayz in front of their computer screen cos of lack of sleep, water and food  :)
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Crob28 on March 02, 2013, 08:35:58 pm
I'd wish that was the case. As clearly as I can put it, the attackers retreated and held outside, while having no ladders remaining. The defenders did not come out to kill them, but instead kicked the entire attacking team.

Which is a fair course of action, if it weren't for the dozen similar situations where the same clans that were now defending camped as attackers after retreating and made the defenders lose considerable amount of tickets by waiting for them to come kill them. Of course way after the timer had run out and without a single admin even opening his mouth, even though they were surely present. Please note that Grey and DRZ do not have admins.

Could have sworn I saw an attacker or two constantly getting ladders from the weapon rack and dropping them unused on the ground, had quite a big pile in the end
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: cmp on March 02, 2013, 08:38:41 pm
Sadly you don't know shit about the usual course of action of these same admins when they are on the attacking side. I fully agree with this point, but just because one clan has admins should not mean that they get to camp as attackers while the other clan does not.

I think we can all agree that having to go kill the attackers as defenders is stupid, the issue here is that the same thing resulted in camping till the defenders killed them for one side, while it resulted in the kicking of all the attackers for the other side.

Then we should be talking about the other cases, not this one.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Erzengel on March 02, 2013, 08:45:35 pm
I'd wish that was the case. As clearly as I can put it, the attackers retreated and held outside, while having no ladders remaining. The defenders did not come out to kill them, but instead kicked the entire attacking team.

Which is a fair course of action, if it weren't for the dozen similar situations where the same clans that were now defending camped as attackers after retreating and made the defenders lose considerable amount of tickets by waiting for them to come kill them. Of course way after the timer had run out and without a single admin even opening his mouth, even though they were surely present. Please note that Grey and DRZ do not have admins.

So once more:
The problem was not the kicking in itself, but the fact that this kicking never occured when similar situations occured the other way around

So you accuse certain admins (including me) of being biased for things that happened (atleast according to you) in the past? This was probably my 5th strategus siege, so I am pretty sure that I haven't been around when this happened before. A lot of people in our team told us that "your" (:rolleyes:) admins also did this btw. Note that this was a special situation which is quite unlikely normally. We would have charged out of our castle if there were gates (even if when we didn't had to).

Probably there is a good reason why the Greys and DRZ don't have an admin yet, especially not in strategus (I don't have anything against those clans, just saying). Nords and Byzantium have enough admins afaik (who are all doing a great job like the rest), so seriously what is your point? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Rhekimos on March 02, 2013, 08:52:11 pm
Yeah the amount of castles that I've defended where the Coalition or Templars have retreated and bunkered up in the one tower that they managed to take. We had to just deal with it and get everyone together to kill the remaining guys.

The rules should apply to everyone, but ofcourse bias admins are just going to stay bias.
There is a bit of a difference in staying inside the enemy castle and in your own spawn. But don't let me ruin a complaint about bias.
Indeed, when you are inside the enemy's castle you at least have the opportunity to attack, while we hadn't. Yet I remember clearly losing about a 100 tickets when trying to clear out a tower as defenders in Uxhal, while the timer was down to -4 minutes. The same principle applies, attackers should attack, defenders should defend.

Attackers should leave the server if they can no longer attack.

If however I am inside your castle, raping your women, you probably have an incentive to stop it.
If you boys are having your own fun outside our castle, I don't care about that.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 02, 2013, 09:00:22 pm
There is a bit of a difference in staying inside the enemy castle and in your own spawn. But don't let me ruin a complaint about bias.

Indeed, when you are inside the enemy's castle you at least have the opportunity to attack, while we hadn't. Yet I remember clearly losing about a 100 tickets when trying to clear out a tower as defenders in Uxhal, while the timer was down to -4 minutes. The same principle applies, attackers should attack, defenders should defend.


Attackers should leave the server if they can no longer attack.

If however I am inside your castle, raping your women, you probably have an incentive to stop it.
If you boys are having your own fun outside our castle, I don't care about that.
If you're sitting in a tower and not planning on ever attacking you're delaying. Same way as if they're sitting outside the walls. The only difference is that they couldn't possibly attack, and were unwilling to do so, while you were unwilling to attack, but not unable to do so, and you can't even prove that difference existed, as it isn't impossible that one of them had a ladder and just didn't feel like showing it because he wanted to chill out in a tower/outside the walls instead of attacking.

Churchill 1+ing a post like his with that broken logic clearly proves you're biased.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 02, 2013, 09:04:59 pm
Then we should be talking about the other cases, not this one.
Technically we are. Seems clear to me that a a siege should end if the timer has run down, regardless of how much attackers are alive. I think retreating should result in the automatic end of the battle to solve all these problems. The mechanics are flawed, tt is up to the devs to change them. In the case that you don't or can't, how about we make it an official rule that when the timer has run down or when the attackers have retreated, they should leave the server?

Official rules should provide clarity for future cases, cause it is clear to me that admins that are present do not have the required objectivity.

So you accuse certain admins (including me) of being biased for things that happened (atleast according to you) in the past? This was probably my 5th strategus siege, so I am pretty sure that I haven't been around when this happened before. A lot of people in our team told us that "your" (:rolleyes:) admins also did this btw. Note that this was a special situation which is quite unlikely normally. We would have charged out of our castle if there were gates (even if when we didn't had to).

Probably there is a good reason why the Greys and DRZ don't have an admin yet, especially not in strategus (I don't have anything against those clans, just saying). Nords and Byzantium have enough admins afaik (who are all doing a great job like the rest), so seriously what is your point? :rolleyes:
Yes, there are obvious double standards here and I think all the present admins were being biased towards the clans they belong to. This was not that special a situation, you could have killed us, with bad losses, but assaulting a tower filled with great mauls yields exactly the same results. I have seen such a situation unfold multiple times and there were either no admins present on our side or they didn't know how to deal with it (there are just 2 Byzantium admins, can't recall that much Nords). I have never seen the attackers being kicked at the end before.

If however I am inside your castle, raping your women, you probably have an incentive to stop it.
If you boys are having your own fun outside our castle, I don't care about that.
If a small band of enemies is locking you down in a castle while you have an army inside it, you probably have an incentive to clear them out. If you have to resort to this reasoning to justify not attacking and delaying as an attacker I just don't know what to say anymore.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Rhekimos on March 02, 2013, 09:05:55 pm
If you're sitting in a tower and not planning on ever attacking you're delaying. Same way as if they're sitting outside the walls. The only difference is that they couldn't possibly attack, and were unwilling to do so, while you were willing to attack, but not unable to do so, and you can't even prove that difference existed, as it isn't impossible that one of them had a ladder and just didn't feel like showing it because he wanted to chill out in a tower/outside the walls instead of attacking.

Churchill 1+ing a post like his with that broken logic clearly proves you're biased.

No, they are not the same. You might as well complain about bias in banning teamkillers but not those who kill enemies.
They are all just players after all.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 02, 2013, 09:08:13 pm
No, they are not the same. You might as well complain about bias in banning teamkillers but not those who kill enemies.
They are all just players after all.
They are the same, both guys aren't willing to attack, and are attackers. You cannot prove one of them wasn't holding a ladder, and as long as that can't be proven they're exactly the same scenario.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Smoothrich on March 02, 2013, 09:08:52 pm

Official rules should provide clarity for future cases, cause it is clear to me that admins that are present do not have the required objectivity.

They are clear.  Camping as attackers after time ran out is delaying and thus kickable.  It doesn't stop tons of drama and accusations of bias either way though.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Abay on March 02, 2013, 09:11:00 pm
If you're sitting in a tower and not planning on ever attacking you're delaying. Same way as if they're sitting outside the walls. The only difference is that they couldn't possibly attack, and were unwilling to do so, while you were unwilling to attack, but not unable to do so, and you can't even prove that difference existed, as it isn't impossible that one of them had a ladder and just didn't feel like showing it because he wanted to chill out in a tower/outside the walls instead of attacking.

Churchill 1+ing a post like his with that broken logic clearly proves you're biased.
So attackers can decide to not bring ladders cos defenders have to come out?  :lol:
People are really funny
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Rhekimos on March 02, 2013, 09:13:55 pm
They are the same, both guys aren't willing to attack, and are attackers. You cannot prove one of them wasn't holding a ladder, and as long as that can't be proven they're exactly the same scenario.

Irrelevant. If warrior group X is inside your castle, their assault succeeded and you need to push them out. If however warrior group X is outside your castle and not doing anything after warning from admins, they are in the wrong.

I don't see how you can claim that they are exactly the same, even if someone had a ladder in their back pocket.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Korgoth on March 02, 2013, 09:14:23 pm
They are clear.  Camping as attackers after time ran out is delaying and thus kickable.  It doesn't stop tons of drama and accusations of bias either way though.

So lets just remember this for next time. Next time we see the HRE and Fallen camp a tower at the end of their failed attack. We will wait for them to leave or get an admin to kick, if there is an admin on the HRE team that refuses to kick them then he is being bias and should be punished.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 02, 2013, 09:15:13 pm
So attackers can decide to not bring ladders cos defenders have to come out?  :lol:
People are really funny
No, attackers should get banned and kicked for flat out delaying, whether it's in a tower or at their spawn.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Abay on March 02, 2013, 09:17:14 pm
No, attackers should get banned and kicked for flat out delaying, whether it's in a tower or at their spawn.
so having enough ladder is attackers' responsibility. u admit that
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 02, 2013, 09:18:58 pm
so having enough ladder is attackers' responsibility. u admit that
Yes, never claimed anything else, but not having ladders and not attacking is no worse than sitting in a tower able to attack and not doing it.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Korgoth on March 02, 2013, 09:20:56 pm
Also I'd just like to point out. The defence at Etrosq castle. I remember when the attackers lost, around five remaining Templars run to the other side of the map and camped a hill, this was only about a week ago.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Rhekimos on March 02, 2013, 09:21:44 pm
The easiest solution to this, like someone suggested, is that attackers are automatically kicked after the time runs out.
That would be impartial and fair for everyone and Strat battles would happen more on time.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Abay on March 02, 2013, 09:23:56 pm
Yes, never claimed anything else, but not having ladders and not attacking is no worse than sitting in a tower able to attack and not doing it.
Then why should defenders attack attackers while they have enough food and women inside? Think the issue realist and decide on it again please. You attack a castle, you finish your food, you got some illness in the army and you still camp near the castle. Will attackers wait for death or retreat? this kicking shows you retreat, right?
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 02, 2013, 09:32:30 pm
The easiest solution to this, like someone suggested, is that attackers are automatically kicked after the time runs out.
That would be impartial and fair for everyone and Strat battles would happen more on time.


This would be lovely and solve most problems for this particular subject.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: DaveUKR on March 02, 2013, 09:34:33 pm
You can give me minuses Teeth but still I clearly see it. I was one of those guys who jumped to take down your ladders and I jumped on the spikes. Sometimes I didn't take any damage, sometimes I took like 40-70% of damage and sometimes I just died. But there is no way to jump down as a crowd and get no damage. You either jump in a crowd and die or you jump 1 by 1 and get killed by attackers who are camping there. Also your statement about defenders trying to get the maximum damage while jumping down is a total bullshit. Who in the world would waste tickets by just dying?

You also forgot about sky ladders and double ladders which were overused by your team. I don't give a shit about strat and sometimes I play for both sides but this time you're completely wrong. Admins were also wrong, I'd also ban those who used skyladders.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Abay on March 02, 2013, 09:38:25 pm
We better see the front now  :P

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Smoothrich on March 02, 2013, 09:45:28 pm
We clarified these rules like a year ago with Meow, cmp, whoever else so the NA admin team knew what was up.  I remember kicking a bunch of EU fallen for doing this same shit in an NA strat battle.  The rage and entitlement was hilarious.  BUT ON EU WE CAN DO THIS EVERY TIME..

Perhaps the EU admin team is biased as fuck in general?
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Korgoth on March 02, 2013, 09:51:01 pm
Perhaps the EU admin team is biased as fuck in general?

This is possibly the first thread about slight admin abooze for EU. I've seen atleast 4 threads recently about NA admins.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 02, 2013, 09:53:44 pm
The easiest solution to this, like someone suggested, is that attackers are automatically kicked after the time runs out.
That would be impartial and fair for everyone and Strat battles would happen more on time.
The fact that this hasn't been done already even though it's obviously a good thing leads me to believe we can't count on this getting implemented anytime soon.

A more simple and immediate solution is writing down an official rule that the siege ends if either the attacker runs out of time or retreats. With attackers being obliged to leave and admins allowed to kick attackers if either of these criteria is fulfilled. These are fully objective and clearly defined criteria, unline 'attackers should attack', seeing as some people here define camping a tower as attacking. Which should make it doable for any present admin to even kick his own clanmates if they refuse to leave. No more after siege delaying or camping.

But there is no way to jump down as a crowd and get no damage. You either jump in a crowd and die or you jump 1 by 1 and get killed by attackers who are camping there.
Heh, funny. Kinda similar to going up a stairway one by one and getting killed by the attackers who are camping up the tower wouldn't you say?

Also your statement about defenders trying to get the maximum damage while jumping down is a total bullshit. Who in the world would waste tickets by just dying?
Apparently you guys. Wasting 10 tickets to justify not going out to save some more tickets. Someone on your team stated in chat 'It's raining men' after which you all jumped in retarded manner from the wall which obviously showed little intention of surviving the drop. It was obvious really, maybe you were doing the best you could to survive, but some on your team surely weren't. A little effort in looking for a better spot to jump down could also have yielded much better results.

Anyway,

Think about adding this as an official rule. Clear as it gets, two objective criteria.
If the attackers use the retreat function or run out of time during a siege, the siege ends and the attackers have to leave the server
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Smoothrich on March 02, 2013, 09:54:31 pm
This is possibly the first thread about slight admin abooze for EU. I've seen atleast 4 threads recently about NA admins.

Yeah, the targeted multiaccounting bans, reworking of Strategus mechanics, the general attitude of entitlement and coziness of some factions to devs/"top admins" compared to others, along with not a single Turkish, Russian, or Polish admin that I know of, despite being some of the biggest communities in this game.

No bias at all.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Hobb on March 02, 2013, 09:58:47 pm
We clarified these rules like a year ago with Meow, cmp, whoever else so the NA admin team knew what was up.  I remember kicking a bunch of EU fallen for doing this same shit in an NA strat battle.  The rage and entitlement was hilarious.  BUT ON EU WE CAN DO THIS EVERY TIME..

Perhaps the EU admin team is biased as fuck in general?

Ya this happened to our castle last strat when fallen attacked it. Without means to get inside the castle asmins kicked the "leeching/delaying" attackers since i wouldnt let my guys go out and kill them.


Here is my idea for the rule for this: defenders only goal is to protect flags, and as long as their flags are still up no action the defense does is delaying. This only applies for defense however, so for any instance in strat if both sides are unwilling to engage, attackers must make a move to either engage enemy or their flags. If the attackers are unwilling or unable to do this, they get kicked.

This rule solves everything, and is easy to employ.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: DaveUKR on March 02, 2013, 09:59:02 pm

Heh, funny. Kinda similar to going up a stairway one by one and getting killed by the attackers who are camping up the tower wouldn't you say?

Why are you even talking about this? I wasn't there when I don't even know who did this. If somebody didn't get caught on doing something wrong that's not players' fault but admins'. There was a siege when I was the last defender hiding on the roof with my crossbows. I was forced to get down by admins, even though attackers didn't have a ladder long enough to reach me. So what now? I didn't have a chance to win there so it doesn't matter. You guys got kicked, enemy didn't lose 30 tickets, big deal?
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 02, 2013, 10:05:07 pm
Why are you even talking about this? I wasn't there when I don't even know who did this. If somebody didn't get caught on doing something wrong that's not players' fault but admins'.
I am talking about that because that is the entire point of this thread :rolleyes:. The admins didn't do jack shit about that, while they should have, but now it concerned their clans losing tickets it suddenly was no problem for them to act.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: phnxhdsn on March 02, 2013, 10:14:48 pm
Just going to throw my point of view out here..

It's not the fact that you kicked us all resulting in the loss of 40 tickets and that you could of jumped down but i agree it was stupid that you were losing half your health points sometimes as its hard to be pinpoint with your jumps - All castles really need open-able and closeable gate so that attackers can come out if they want to but if it was realistic they shouldn't have to anyways but unfortunately  it's Crpg not real life.

The thing which annoys me is that I clearly remember about a month ago that in a siege battle of Uxhal about 20 of your troops clambered into a tower with mauls, etc and the Uxhal defenders (including oneself) wasted around 100 tickets slowly killing off your last remaining stragglers who were camping and yet could of walked out and fought instead of delaying without being kicked even though im sure there were admins on the attackers side and none on the defenders side unfortunately as UIF has no admins and no one like Ujin in Byzantium was on to discuss whether they should be kicked or not. But the thing which actually annoys me is that you are contradicting yourself majorly by being biased as far as i can see by having the only admins on your side and not kicking when your the last stragglers and only kicking when we have stragglers who did not have a choice of fighting as your team did not come out and play.

Could have sworn I saw an attacker or two constantly getting ladders from the weapon rack and dropping them unused on the ground, had quite a big pile in the end
And yes towards the end we were spawning with as many items and ladders as possible and dropping/dieing with them as you do to lower the amount the enemy receives but again in Crpg, items disappear after an extended period of time so we had no ladders to use. - as some have said attackers who retreat should just lose all their forces but maybe not lose those tickets which are still active or maybe they should as they were doomed anyway? but realistically they would kill off some of the defenders troops and the way it is now is the most realistic as attackers would have to leave a couple men behind to cover their escape and it should be the defenders responsibility to hunt them down as we have in the past which has cost us but it's not like hundreds of years ago they could just delete people who were either hiding in a tower or stuck outside a castle with no way in. And yet again the contradiction with the abuse of admin Powa to favor ones team is what annoyed me and that we didn't get to try and take as many kills at the end which the attackers have done in the past.

I just hope from this forum we can all (especially admins) gather what to do in a predicament like this.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Jacu on March 02, 2013, 10:24:06 pm
we always must kill them... never mind they camp in tower, they are on spawn or they only running.... but this behaviour from admins side it isnt new in my opinion, we are only UiF.... bless you admins
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Everkistus on March 02, 2013, 10:55:07 pm
If you think this is about admin abuse, please use my thread in admin feedback to discuss it. I made the call to kick attackers as the senior admin in there, so I call responsibility for this. However, I'd take the same course of action even if it was clanmates camping when the battle timer is at -6 and I've got other stuff to do.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Izatopia on March 02, 2013, 10:55:41 pm
alright man up teeth its the same thing when the last guy cant get reached so he have to jump down in this case the defenders had no chance to jump down due to a long jump a a swarm which would kill the survivors.

common sence is common.

apparently you have to bring this up because you feel cheated in some way, well dont.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Smoothrich on March 02, 2013, 11:00:57 pm
The thing is he's not talking about this incident being abuse.  Just he noticed a trend in the "bloc" of EU Strategus bullshit that influences everyone's attitudes towards each other that lots of people selectively enforce things.  I recall Fallen EU players feeling more or less entitled to camp as attackers in any siege they were in and massive rage/downvoting my feedback thread (ever wonder why it had so many lol) when I kicked them for delaying.

Use this as an opportunity for admins and Strategus leaders/peasants to get that you can't do this on either side, because its honestly a bit stressful for admins to get shit on by everyone for trying to enforce rules that in fact exist.  Just aren't documented very well because "cRPG."

I also do think problems do arise way more when one Strategus army does not have an admin, because all sorts of issues arise that you can only tell from your voip/perspective like griefing, leeching, teamkilling, bugs, whatever that needs an admin on the ground to look at, along with getting in touch with other admins when necessary.  Pretty difficult sometimes when there are so many giant, active factions in cRPG/Strategus  who seem to have no admins at all.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 02, 2013, 11:38:53 pm
alright man up teeth its the same thing when the last guy cant get reached so he have to jump down in this case the defenders had no chance to jump down due to a long jump a a swarm which would kill the survivors.

common sence is common.

apparently you have to bring this up because you feel cheated in some way, well dont.
Common sense is a little less common everytime the admins are on the attacking team, though. Apparently you don't really get what the thread is about, yet you feel like you have to ignorantly post here, well don't.

If you think this is about admin abuse, please use my thread in admin feedback to discuss it. I made the call to kick attackers as the senior admin in there, so I call responsibility for this. However, I'd take the same course of action even if it was clanmates camping when the battle timer is at -6 and I've got other stuff to do.
Of course I can't really blame you personally for making a decision that wasn't made whenever it was in the advantage of your side of Strat, but it does make you the inconsistent admin compared to the others. However I do agree with the decision you made, and I really hope that you will in fact make this decision when your faction is delaying. At least there is 3 admins that I know of who supported making this decision now, so I really expect these 3 to do some kicking regardless of who is delaying. Otherwise they are confirmed badmins. Maybe you could state a general statement that attackers should be kicked when delaying on your little admin forum, so there is more consistency.

I am almost sure though, that delaying will get a different definition everytime and decisions will be made selectively. That is why we need more specific rules or more evenly distributed admins accross clans. Or sieges that do not require all the attackers to be killed before they are over.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Blackzilla on March 03, 2013, 01:19:56 am
The easiest solution to this, like someone suggested, is that attackers are automatically kicked after the time runs out.
That would be impartial and fair for everyone and Strat battles would happen more on time.
This seems like a good idea, but I've seen too many battles come down to after the timer, with both sides having little to no tickets.


 After the uxhall siege the attackers camped outside of the castle and not one thing of pink text popped up. We had to sally out to kill them. I've also seen sides camping spawn after the siege and they do it just so they can claim admin abuse in a battle.
Example: I believe this is a Fallen member talking.

Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Latvian on March 03, 2013, 01:32:59 am
ohhh great, one of these threads again


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Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Harpag on March 03, 2013, 12:02:46 pm
Cyrus, Everkistus and Erzengel - frustration floods your eyes and mind. If you can't control your negative emotions, why do you want to be admins? I know that due to my personal preferences and strong temptation I don't want to be an admin, because objectivity often requires effort, but if this shit has run like in last time, maybe I should apply for admin  :lol:
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Ronald_Meliossandro on March 03, 2013, 12:59:37 pm
Yes i deleted my own thread becuse i was so angry and dissapointed!

When I read the pages, I get more sad than angry .... People are really not objective but sees it only from one side instead of seeing it from both sides.

I've written before that both sides cheat .... maybe by accident or on purpose.
I see this on both sides and to deny this is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: bagge on March 03, 2013, 01:08:22 pm
Corrupted crap admins.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Osiris on March 03, 2013, 01:25:36 pm
ban strat
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Sable Keech on March 03, 2013, 01:27:52 pm
I think everyones in the wrong, and also taking strat/ crpg too seriously.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Erzengel on March 03, 2013, 01:32:41 pm
Cyrus, Everkistus and Erzengel - frustration floods your eyes and mind. If you can't control your negative emotions, why do you want to be admins? I know that due to my personal preferences and strong temptation I don't want to be an admin, because objectivity often requires effort, but if this shit has run like in last time, maybe I should apply for admin  :lol:

:rolleyes:

No idea which frustration and negative emotions you are talking about Harpag. I have always treated the members of your clan very fair since I am an admin. I have absolutely no negative feelings towards Grey Order and get along very well with most of your members. I even unbanned Shadow_the_Grey earlier to allow him to participate in that battle. Doesn't sound that biased if you ask me. You have absolutely no reason to complain here, we just enforced the rules and will also do it in the future no matter which clan is involved.

I know that you are trolling, but it is really getting boring.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Harpag on March 03, 2013, 01:43:02 pm

I've written before that both sides cheat .... maybe by accident or on purpose.
I see this on both sides and to deny this is ridiculous.

Of course. It's just that they have to deny it because they are "good", and we don't need, because we are "bad". Just RP  :)


I know that you are trolling, but it is really getting boring.


I'm sorry if boring  :)
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on March 03, 2013, 03:07:19 pm
I'm sorry if boring  :)

I think more correct terms could be:

obnoxious
awful
repulsive
inconsistent
pain in the neck
foul
displeasing
revolting
etc.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Casimir on March 03, 2013, 03:23:41 pm
I'm 99% sure its the nonsensical drama and rage that makes people (devs/admins/players) give up on strat. The other 1% being the terrible amount of bugs and glitches.

I'm fairly sure the rules were pretty clear on this, you have to defend your castle from the enemies.  If the enemies can no longer attack you can sally out and kill them or wait and they must leave.  Its completely optional for defenders to sally out and if they choose not to then the attackers can be kicked for delaying.

It seems easy enough to me to distinguish between someone who is still in your castle and someone who is outside.

As ever, storm in a tea cup.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: BeastSVK on March 03, 2013, 03:41:27 pm
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 :wink: innocence
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 03, 2013, 03:46:06 pm
It seems easy enough to me to distinguish between someone who is still in your castle and someone who is outside.
It's not. When talking about a huge scene like Uxhal, camping the gatehouse of the outer wall, with not a single building being between the outer and second wall, is exactly the same as being outside the castle to me. That did cost Grey Order a 100 tickets and 4 minutes past the timer to clear out though and not even a single warning was issued.

(click to show/hide)
:wink: innocence
I just don't get what the problem is here, I have looked at these rules and I don't see it.

 1) Ladders
                    1.1) Floating ladders. You are not allowed to stay on floating ladders. If for some reason your ladder becomes floating, you are to get off it, even if it means suicide.
                    1.2) Ladderplacement. For now there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, so they are allowed. (as long as you keep the other rules in mind)

It's not floating and there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, with 'unrealistic' being a very vague definition anyway, but I guess that is why there are no rules about it.
           
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: BeastSVK on March 03, 2013, 03:58:26 pm
It's not. When talking about a huge scene like Uxhal, camping the gatehouse of the outer wall, with not a single building being between the outer and second wall, is exactly the same as being outside the castle to me. That did cost Grey Order a 100 tickets and 4 minutes past the timer to clear out though and not even a single warning was issued.
I just don't get what the problem is here, I have looked at these rules and I don't see it.

 1) Ladders
                    1.1) Floating ladders. You are not allowed to stay on floating ladders. If for some reason your ladder becomes floating, you are to get off it, even if it means suicide.
                    1.2) Ladderplacement. For now there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, so they are allowed. (as long as you keep the other rules in mind)

It's not floating and there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, with 'unrealistic' being a very vague definition anyway, but I guess that is why there are no rules about it.
         
Well the whole construction is bad and bad. Left ladder is not holding on spikes its just erected like **** from ground ..
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Molly on March 03, 2013, 05:08:57 pm
Jeez, still going at it like a bunch of angry nerds, are we? :D
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 03, 2013, 05:13:29 pm
It's a matter of principles, which are not understood very well in this community, not that I didn't know that already.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 03, 2013, 07:07:32 pm
Yeah, the targeted multiaccounting bans...


No bias at all.


Remember when you tried to prove that they were deliberately ignoring some multiaccounters, so you banned one on your own "evidence," and then it turned out it was just your personal bias and you were deadmined?


Yeah... So since FCC is apparently free of multi-accounters, who exactly are they ignoring now?


You've repeatedly proven that you are one of the most biased people in the entire community given your impressive hatred towards a rather large selection of the community (That somehow even surpasses the hatred that a lot of anti-UIF old-schoolers have towards UIF, which is saying something), but please, do go one preaching your self-rightous "I only want [selective] justice [without evidence]" speels that you seem so fond of.


As ever, storm in a tea cup.
Now this is an altogether lovely saying that I must remember, it sounds so much better then "Making mountains out of molehills."
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 03, 2013, 07:14:18 pm

Remember when you tried to prove that they were deliberately ignoring some multiaccounters, so you banned one on your own "evidence," and then it turned out it was just your personal bias and you were deadmined?

Remember when Kesh posted on his girlfriends forum account? That basically proves at least account sharing is happening, so yeah, gg.
Yeah... So since FCC is apparently free of multi-accounters, who exactly are they ignoring now?

Fallen ofc
You've repeatedly proven that you are one of the most biased people in the entire community given your impressive hatred towards a rather large selection of the community (That somehow even surpasses the hatred that a lot of anti-UIF old-schoolers have towards UIF, which is saying something), but please, do go one preaching your self-rightous "I only want [selective] justice [without evidence]" speels that you seem so fond of.

Now this is an altogether lovely saying that I must remember, it sounds so much better then "Making mountains out of molehills."
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 03, 2013, 07:22:10 pm
Forum account sharing is hardly the same as game sharing, since one has zero impact in game and can happen due to simple mistakes, hence why Kesh was unbanned.


As for the next statement of yours, I've personally stamped out a single incident of a member trying to multi-account before it even happened a year and a half ago (perhaps two), and I think we've only had to do that just one other time (roughly two years ago). I might be forgetting one other incident, but everytime we have always nipped it in the bud the instant Leadership found out about it.
There is no plausible way anyone can run a clan and not find out if he has a multi-accounter inside it for long...

You see, The Fallen are not as incredibly stupid as a lot of the community, and seem to understand this basic concept: Nobody knows what tool cmp uses to catch multi-accounters, but it works, so you will get caught... So we don't do it. It really is that simple, hence why we've never been mass-banned for it.

Multi-accounting and thinking you won't get caught is like installing autoblock and thinking you won't get caught. It is just pure stupidity. I still remember the sour taste I had in my mouth when a Fallen showed up on one of the autoblocker waves way long ago, but we have yet to have that happen again for anything else.

Nobody multi accounts in Fallen, and I'd love for anyone to prove otherwise, but please do share your theory on why we do it unless it is typical "I don't like Fallen so I bet they are dirty cheaters."


Anyone who thinks they can get away with multi-accounting or autoblocking is a delusional fool.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 03, 2013, 07:34:01 pm
Forum account sharing is hardly the same as game sharing, since one has zero impact in game and can happen due to simple mistakes, hence why Kesh was unbanned.
He admitted it wasn't a simple mistake, and stop bullshitting, forum accountsharers can 1+ eachother to give them a higher renowncount!!

0As for the next statement of yours, I've personally stamped out a single incident of a member trying to multi-account before it even happened a year and a half ago (perhaps two), and I thin000000000,00k 0w0,e0've only had to do that just one other time (roughly two years ago). I might be forgetting one other incident, but everytime we have always nipped it in the bud the instant Leadership found out about it.
There is no plausible way anyone can run a clan and not find out if he has a multi-accounter inside it for long...

You see, The Fallen are not as incredibly stupid as a lot of the community, and seem to understand this basic concept: Nobody knows what tool cmp uses to catch multi-accounters, but it works, so you will get caught... So we don't do it. It really is that simple, hence why we've never been mass-banned for it.

Multi-accounting and thinking you won't get caught is like installing autoblock and thinking you won't get caught. It is just pure stupidity. I still remember the sour taste I had in my mouth when a Fallen showed up on one of the autoblocker waves way long ago, but we have yet to have that happen again for anything else.

Nobody multi accounts in Fallen, and I'd love for anyone to prove otherwise, but please do share your theory on why we do it unless it is typical "I don't like Fallen so I bet they are dirty cheaters."


Anyone who thinks they can get away with multi-accounting or autoblocking is a delusional fool.
Goats, also Smoothrich and CNN told me not to trust you guys!!
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Smoothrich on March 03, 2013, 07:49:46 pm
Kesh plays on Busty's account nearly 24/7, Busty has probably played no more then half a dozzen hours of cRPG in her life even if her account is the second most active Strategus army/Strategus merc for FCC, he's a rampant account sharer, and many people in FCC were encouraged for the past 2-3 Strategus's to multiaccount, account share, and so forth on a very large scale.  These are all facts.  If you knew why Kesh was unbanned you'd probably laugh because he's so blatantly guilty still, but I'm not gonna talk about The Truth in ways that can compromise things.

The fact is I'm sure Kesh would've stayed banned if it was done by Meow or Tomas and he was in UIF.  Almost all "investigations" for multiaccounting were just deferred to biased admins who only "investigated" flagged accounts who were russians because "its more likely lol."  I bet dozens of them were multiaccount banned with much flimsier evidence, because they are all treated like shit by devs and admins and that's really the main point of the thread.  The insane amounts of bias by a small insular circle jerk community that made sure half the groups don't have admins and get blanket banned in whimsical ways.

I'm not biased against individuals or people in clans, but by observing (or trying to change) some of the admin bureaucracy in the game it becomes really obvious that most people involved are more or less racists who jerk it to banning people they don't like with flimsy evidence, and will treat people with more condemning evidence they do like with lenience.  Then some people try to be impartial and fair and they're the ones who look bad in comparison.

Obviously that's how most institutions end up being run I suppose.  Still pretty funny to watch how shitty it is and how pervasive for years those negative stereotypes and senses of entitlement can be.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: BaleOhay on March 03, 2013, 09:49:31 pm
Kesh plays on Busty's account nearly 24/7, Busty has probably played no more then half a dozzen hours of cRPG in her life even if her account is the second most active Strategus army/Strategus merc for FCC, he's a rampant account sharer, and many people in FCC were encouraged for the past 2-3 Strategus's to multiaccount, account share, and so forth on a very large scale.  These are all facts.  If you knew why Kesh was unbanned you'd probably laugh because he's so blatantly guilty still, but I'm not gonna talk about The Truth in ways that can compromise things.

The fact is I'm sure Kesh would've stayed banned if it was done by Meow or Tomas and he was in UIF.  Almost all "investigations" for multiaccounting were just deferred to biased admins who only "investigated" flagged accounts who were russians because "its more likely lol."  I bet dozens of them were multiaccount banned with much flimsier evidence, because they are all treated like shit by devs and admins and that's really the main point of the thread.  The insane amounts of bias by a small insular circle jerk community that made sure half the groups don't have admins and get blanket banned in whimsical ways.

I'm not biased against individuals or people in clans, but by observing (or trying to change) some of the admin bureaucracy in the game it becomes really obvious that most people involved are more or less racists who jerk it to banning people they don't like with flimsy evidence, and will treat people with more condemning evidence they do like with lenience.  Then some people try to be impartial and fair and they're the ones who look bad in comparison.

Obviously that's how most institutions end up being run I suppose.  Still pretty funny to watch how shitty it is and how pervasive for years those negative stereotypes and senses of entitlement can be.

Smooth you are so completely full of shit that I can literally smell you over the internet.


So you are saying the devs unbanned Kesh because they like him? That would be news.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Keshian on March 03, 2013, 10:38:13 pm
many people in FCC were encouraged for the past 2-3 Strategus's to multiaccount, account share, and so forth on a very large scale.  These are all facts. shit smoothrich makes up in his head to justify his abuse of admin powers and feel justified and persecuted like a martyr while being the most biased admin ex-admin in the game.

Also, you and thax the racist deserve it each other - make up a bunch of shit until you actually start believing it.  There is not a single person in my faction that multi-accounts or has been encouraged to multi-account but you have a hard on for FCC.  Sure just ignore the fact that not one FCC member has been banned for multi-accounting until you did it to me without evidence when you were losing your city on strategus.

I'm not biased against individuals or people in clans, but by observing (or trying to change) some of the admin bureaucracy in the game it becomes really obvious that most people involved are more or less racists who jerk it to banning people they don't like with flimsy evidence, and will treat people with more condemning evidence they do like with lenience.  Then some people try to be impartial and fair and they're the ones who look bad in comparison.

Do you really believe the pure stupidity that you spout?  Everyone knows how biased you are - just look at the admin chat logs where you abused your admin powers to ban me without evidence because you were losing your city until of course you cheated and had a clanmate attack it to prevent us attacking it and just did a fief trasnfer in the middle of our waves of atatcks.  if you were truly unbiased you would ban yourself.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Segd on March 03, 2013, 11:09:16 pm
Too much drama. I think we all just need to wait for next anti-uif counter-attack :)
Btw, attacker's last stand on the field battle should be punishable as well.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Rikthor on March 03, 2013, 11:24:57 pm
stuff

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Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: jtobiasm on March 04, 2013, 02:14:19 am
From the first 2 pages....cba to quote

So you're saying, byz or greys or drz have never ever ever camped in a tower when they are attacking and they have 0 tickets left?
Didn't think soooo. So pipe down.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Vovka on March 04, 2013, 07:16:53 am
I would strongly recommend for anti-UIF to start using heir heads and not ban hammer, at least in order to catch their comrades falling from the walls, if u don't know of a better use for it :P
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Vovka on March 04, 2013, 07:25:26 am
 :cry:
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Vibe on March 04, 2013, 11:42:22 am
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Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Harpag on March 04, 2013, 12:58:43 pm
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You don't need to convince me. I know very well, that their methods are incorrect, or what is worse, they are biased hypocrites. In our clan, they punished innocent people, and those who have something on their conscience, they left untouched. Fake and scam.

I know what I'm saying, because for total certainty, we kept our armies and caravans only on completely safe and reliable people. We lost everything. Just lol.

I'll give you a good example. This fucker Harpag have 100 CD keys and no ban.
How is this possible?

PS. A little sense of humor can't kill you, so chill out angry bitches hahaha

Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: kinngrimm on March 04, 2013, 02:04:49 pm
i remember there was a DRZ admin erm also diplomat erm, for not for me to tell reasons he decided to quit the admin job. So there had been at least 1 UIF admin i know of. Also i would see Khorin and Thomek in terms of earlier strategus affiliations to UIF as at least impartial. Then again also mentoiend in several threads, a faction on its own hasn't got a right to have an admin, but everyone who is interested in the job is free to apply for it.

Overall i would give the admins the benefit of the doubt and see them as impartial. As already stated with this castle there came some not expected setbacks.

As it was normal in other sieges i witnessed and also not complained about, attackers did a last stand in several places even in tough to reach places incide of those castles/towns. Which at least for me never came to mind there may bea rulebraking with that included. So best thing to do from now i guess play it strictly by the rules, whoever attacker who is not still trying to conquer that place at hand after the timer runs out or before, gets kicked or banned if done repeatedly.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Butan on March 04, 2013, 02:30:51 pm
Every attackers should die from heart attack (through the head) when the timer runs out. Fixed.


This or deal with last man standing tactic but in an other way than admin intervention...
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Canary on March 04, 2013, 06:10:17 pm
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:wink: innocence
I just don't get what the problem is here, I have looked at these rules and I don't see it.

...

It's not floating and there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, with 'unrealistic' being a very vague definition anyway, but I guess that is why there are no rules about it.   



1.3) Siege-equipment on ladders is not allowed. This includes using siege shields, other ladders and everything you can make with a construction-site.

Ladders are siege equipment. Do not place ladders while standing on another ladder. The ladder targeted in the screenshot is indeed in breach of the rules. Rule has now been updated for clarity.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Rhekimos on March 04, 2013, 06:28:44 pm
I just don't get what the problem is here, I have looked at these rules and I don't see it.

...

It's not floating and there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, with 'unrealistic' being a very vague definition anyway, but I guess that is why there are no rules about it.   




Ladders are siege equipment. Do not place ladders while standing on another ladder. The ladder targeted in the screenshot is indeed in breach of the rules.

That rule could have clearer language. "Siege equipment" is never defined in the rules, leaving the term ambiguous. Someone in good faith could interpret it to mean siege shields and constructables.

A simple and clear rule would be: 1.3) Do not place anything on ladders.
Minimal room for misinterpretation.

Edit: On the edit on the rules: That works better.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Segd on March 04, 2013, 06:31:33 pm
That rule could have clearer language. "Siege equipment" is never defined in the rules, leaving the term ambiguous. Someone in good faith could interpret it to mean siege shields and constructables.

A simple and clear rule would be: 1.3) Do not place anything on ladders.
Minimal room for misinterpretation.

Edit: On the edit on the rules: That works better.
Because its true. You cannot place siege shields, ladders, c sites on top of the ladders :) The rule is fine as it is.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Rhekimos on March 04, 2013, 06:34:59 pm
Because its true. You cannot place siege shields, ladders, c sites on top of the ladders :)

I believe you miss my point. If someone interpreted the old rule to mean "siege shields and constructables", that category might not include ladders, making different interpretations of the rule possible.

Now it has been further clarified to explicitly include that ladder on ladder is not allowed.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Teeth on March 04, 2013, 07:07:39 pm
Ladders are siege equipment. Do not place ladders while standing on another ladder. The ladder targeted in the screenshot is indeed in breach of the rules. Rule has now been updated for clarity.
Thanks, much better.

Normally placing ladders on ladders is forbidden and the leadership in these battles, well, basically Hetman, tries to prevent it. Language barrier and discipline issues lets one occasionally slip through. In this particular instance though the terrain directly infront of the front wall was bugging ladders out, making them often pick a random direction when placed. As you can see when looking at the other 4 ladders which are placed in non sensical manners, that is why a frustrated Hetman did not forbid us from using this one.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Casimir on March 04, 2013, 07:19:53 pm
Exactly the same thing was done at Yalen.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Abay on March 04, 2013, 08:54:30 pm
Ladders are siege equipment. Do not place ladders while standing on another ladder. The ladder targeted in the screenshot is indeed in breach of the rules. Rule has now been updated for clarity.
But they are now doing it. When I am writing here, they are in the fight.  :rolleyes:

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Edit:And they are still doing it
Ave Rus set a ladder here but couldnt took the shot here.
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Edit2:And more coming
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Here, he intended to set it but canary warned him and he didnt.
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Question: Is setting ladders on siege shields bannable? It creates an advantage in an open area battle.
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Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Lennu on March 04, 2013, 09:17:37 pm
I don't mind ladders on siege shields.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: bagge on March 04, 2013, 09:21:40 pm
Abay. Post some more pictures please, I don't think people get it :?
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 04, 2013, 09:24:10 pm
But they are now doing it. When I am writing here, they are in the fight.  :rolleyes:

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Edit:And they are still doing it
Ave Rus set a ladder here but couldnt took the shot here.
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Edit2:And more coming
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Here, he intended to set it but canary warned him and he didnt.
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Question: Is setting ladders on siege shields bannable? It creates an advantage in an open area battle.
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You should make a banthread in the global section. 1+ for screens.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Haboe on March 04, 2013, 09:25:12 pm
Abay. Post some more pictures please, I don't think people get it :?

My guess is that abay is showing the obvious exploiting done by multiple players on the side you played for bagge... Just a guess.


Edit:

rule 1.3)
Siege-equipment on ladders is not allowed. This includes using siege shields, other ladders and everything you can make with a construction-site.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Shemaforash on March 04, 2013, 09:26:21 pm
Question: Is setting ladders on siege shields bannable? It creates an advantage in an open area battle.
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According to rules this is NOT forbidden, even YOUR side do this as well so don't give us double moral.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: bagge on March 04, 2013, 09:29:36 pm
My guess is that abay is showing the obvious exploiting done by multiple players on the side you played for bagge... Just a guess.

And despite all the shit they have done I will continue to fight for them.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 04, 2013, 09:30:02 pm
Hey, can you please start taking screens and banthreading eachother (thank you Abay) instead of just saying "THEY DO IT TOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :cry: :cry: :cry:". Fighting fire with fire is retarded.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Haboe on March 04, 2013, 09:31:45 pm
Rules were broken, warnings were given and 1 guy got a 12-15 minute ban.

Rule enforcing seems to work, its now very clear for all 100 players that enjoyed that battle that making ladders from ladders is not allowed. A good day for non-exploiters imo.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Segd on March 04, 2013, 09:33:39 pm
Question: Is setting ladders on siege shields bannable? It creates an advantage in an open area battle.
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Its not a siege shield actually.  :wink:  It's undestroyable map object
But talking about real shield or site: they give prop for ladder so it's fine.

Imagine siege shield & ladder:
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Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Matey on March 04, 2013, 09:37:10 pm
you cant put a siege shield on a ladder, you can put a ladder on a siege shield, so long as the base of the ladder is touching the ground.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 04, 2013, 09:37:34 pm
I'm pretty sure there was never made a rule about ladders on siege shields, imo a poll should be made.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Haboe on March 04, 2013, 09:46:05 pm
you cant put a siege shield on a ladder, you can put a ladder on a siege shield, so long as the base of the ladder is touching the ground.

Rule 1.3 says you cannot put siege equipment on ladders

The second part, about putting ladders on siege shields is true (think its blocked by game mechanics, not sure).

Segd is also correct, indestructible map object is not siege equipment, therefore counts as solid ground, equal to ground and walls.
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Abay on March 04, 2013, 09:54:13 pm
you cant put a siege shield on a ladder, you can put a ladder on a siege shield, so long as the base of the ladder is touching the ground.
makes sense, thanks  :)
Title: Re: The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle
Post by: Everkistus on March 05, 2013, 10:45:55 am
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I lol'd so hard I almost crapped myself. Good show Vibe!