The kicking of attackers at Maras Castle

[Teeth]

Okay, seemingly the other thread about the matter got deleted. I wrote a huge reply for it. We should be able to maturely discuss the problem and the one sided behaviour of some admins on this forum. At least have the decency to lock it and provide a reason for the lock at the end. I don't know who deleted the last thread, but I would like to know a reason. Completely removing threads smells like censorship and I ain't having none of that. So here goes.

Now I fully agree that it is completely stupid that after retreat the defenders have to go hunt down the attackers. In my opinion when the attackers retreat the battle should end, right there. They don't however, so we have to deal with it.

Don't give me this hypocritical bullshit though.

'Attackers have to attack'
'Leave the server if you can't attack'
'If you don't attack you will get kicked'
'Stop delaying'

It's all true, but the defenders on this battle have done the exact same thing themselves half a dozen times that I witnessed alone.

Everytime you attacked any castle, you holed yourselves up in some tower after retreating with a bunch of great mauls and the defenders lost a 100 tickets trying to kill the last 30 of yours. Happened in Uxhal and Etrosq castle for example. In fact that is even worse, because you had the possibility to attack but instead you waited for us to come get you. We had no ladders, we even tried breaking down the gate.

What a surprise however, that there never was any talk of leaving the server, or kicking people when you guys we're doing it. Grey and DRZ do not have a single admin, so they took their loss, attacked you while you camped a favourable position as the attacking team. I am pretty sure you had an admin present for almost every siege that occured in, there were like 3 now, but no one was kicked for not attacking when you were doing it.

At least have the decency to apply the same standards to your own clan as the other side as an admin. We will try to get a Byzantium admin on next time you try to pull this shit, and I can hear the crying already. You should have jumped down and you should have killed us. You were jumping down fine for the entire duration of the battle, you destroyed the only ladder we had left yourselves, by jumping out of the castle. Besides the only attempt you did was done very poorly, with people almost intentionally missing the spikes. You guys jumped over the battlements instead of on it and then carefully dropping. All in all a clear attempt to pretend that you guys were in an impossible position, even though you jumping out worked fine earlier on. There were also better spots to jump down from.

I even bothered to siege the castle in a Native singleplayer game. Might be hard to see, but I can assure you that you would survive jumping down there in a non retard manner.

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I just expect that you will kick yourselves too when you are not making any moves to attack in the next siege you do, you won't of course, but I will be noting the presence of Erzengel, Cyrus and Everkistus in those sieges and I hope one of you will find some objectivity in himself.

[Korgoth]

Yeah the amount of castles that I've defended where the Coalition or Templars have retreated and bunkered up in the one tower that they managed to take. We had to just deal with it and get everyone together to kill the remaining guys.

The rules should apply to everyone, but ofcourse bias admins are just going to stay bias.

[DaveUKR]

Falling damage in native and in crpg are different AFAIK (and ofc it's higher in crpg). You saw what happened when defenders jumped out in the best spot - half of them died (including me with full hp). I see nothing wrong with admins kicking you because defenders should not go out when they have no ways to go out without getting damaged. I take here a neutral spot and clearly believe admins did right.

[Smoothrich]

This is one of the issues that makes people absolutely furious in Strategus, and 90 percent of admins seem to be biased as shit in this regard, at least the ones involved in factions.

Regardless, I never hestitated to kick people regardless of faction if they were delaying as attackers, its just poor taste and explicitly against the rules.  This doesn't stop a lot of clans/players from crying abuse no matter what you do.  So well, you can't fault any admins for kicking people who did the same thing.  If they were hypocrites about these rules in the past, honestly what else do you expect from people like FCC, Fallen, Mercs, etc.  Not even trolling, these guys are the ones who complain the most about other people but pretend it doesn't apply to them.

Most interesting is that you said there are no admins in DRZ or Grey.  Are there any UIF admins at all?  Pretty funny since Eastern Europe is probably nearly half the entire cRPG community, with many players probably having language barriers.  Turkish players as well.

Basically, the moral of this story is Give Admin To the Turks, Russians, and Poles.  No Administration without Representation

[Chasey]

Throughout the battle defenders were jumping out and landing on the spikes, some taking no damage and destroying our ladders. Its only when we retreated that  you stopped...

[Royans]

Throughout the battle defenders were jumping out and landing on the spikes, some taking no damage and destroying our ladders. Its only when we retreated that  you stopped...

+1 for destroying ladder, there was no problem for them to jump down.

[Abay]

I remember a battle between lljk vs an AI castle 2 years ago. lljk had no ladder anymore and an admin did insist on that lljk had to attack. in these times, there were one unbreakable ladder in every siege. so they attacked there. they lost many troops than they expected but what they could do. so, in my experience the action was not wrong. here is same thing but there is no unbreakable ladder here, so the kicking serie is next step to do. who was in that battle? it was like 5 hours 

[Rhekimos]

Yeah the amount of castles that I've defended where the Coalition or Templars have retreated and bunkered up in the one tower that they managed to take. We had to just deal with it and get everyone together to kill the remaining guys.

The rules should apply to everyone, but ofcourse bias admins are just going to stay bias.

There is a bit of a difference in staying inside the enemy castle and in your own spawn. But don't let me ruin a complaint about bias.

[Erzengel]

Throughout the battle defenders were jumping out and landing on the spikes, some taking no damage and destroying our ladders. Its only when we retreated that  you stopped...

Yes, some of us jumped down the walls to destroy the last ladder. I also did it twice and lost about 70-90% hp with each jump (I was landing on the spikes btw). The battle ended and you lost. Even if there is a gate, defenders are not forced to get outside their castle. We even tried to attack you but 50% of us died from jumping down and the other 50% had only very few hp left and were easily killed. You can't seriously expect us to lose about 300+ troops to kill the last 40 survivors.

cmp confirmed that we did the right thing. This was my first battle where this happened, I can assure you that I will also kick my team if this happens again the other way around.

I have no idea who deleted the thread btw. Perhaps it was Ronald himself?

[cmp]

I don't understand why defenders brought up the jumping stuff. If you are defending you can decide to stay in your castle, and you certainly don't need an excuse for it.

[Schmackofatz]

I don't understand why defenders brought up the jumping stuff. If you are defending you can decide to stay in your castle, and you certainly don't need an excuse for it.

f.e.: if the attackers retreat and camp a tower in the castle with their remaining players and the defenders do not choose to attack them, they have to attack or be punished the same way?   

[Royans]

Well, so, if you are attacking, u can wait and siege, until ppl dont have any more food, and they die! wololo

[Teeth]

Falling damage in native and in crpg are different AFAIK (and ofc it's higher in crpg). You saw what happened when defenders jumped out in the best spot - half of them died (including me with full hp). I see nothing wrong with admins kicking you because defenders should not go out when they have no ways to go out without getting damaged. I take here a neutral spot and clearly believe admins did right.

The point is that the distance from the wall to the ground is lower there than the spot where you jumped out, regardless of falling damage settings, jeez. And yes, we did see what happened when a bunch of you jumped out like a bunch of retards intentionally getting as much height as possible and missing the spikes intentionally, I am sure you all felt mighty clever in your little channel.

Your attempt to get out of the castle then had a failure rate of about 80%, while I have seen people jumping on the spikes without even getting fall damage, or minor damage throughout the entire battle. I have survived falling from the siege tower with 40% hp, while the ramp edge was exactly the same height as your battlements, and that was far from the best spot.

I don't understand why defenders brought up the jumping stuff. If you are defending you can decide to stay in your castle, and you certainly don't need an excuse for it.

Sadly you don't know shit about the usual course of action of these same admins when they are on the attacking side. I fully agree with this point, but just because one clan has admins should not mean that they get to camp as attackers while the other clan does not.

I think we can all agree that having to go kill the attackers as defenders is stupid, the issue here is that the same thing resulted in camping till the defenders killed them for one side, while it resulted in the kicking of all the attackers for the other side.

There is a bit of a difference in staying inside the enemy castle and in your own spawn. But don't let me ruin a complaint about bias.

Indeed, when you are inside the enemy's castle you at least have the opportunity to attack, while we hadn't. Yet I remember clearly losing about a 100 tickets when trying to clear out a tower as defenders in Uxhal, while the timer was down to -4 minutes. The same principle applies, attackers should attack, defenders should defend.

[Zlisch_The_Butcher]

You are delaying if you can't possibly attack, it's delaying and against the rules. Hiding in some tower as the last attackers alive is however, also delaying. There is some Eastern admin abuse in strat battles *cough* mustikki *cough*, and not kicking their own side is some of it, this however, isn't.

Teeth next time screen it and report them for being delaying bastards.

[Tears of Destiny]

If Attackers camp, the defenders automatically win, right, due to the timer running out? Or are we talking about when the timer has already ran out and it is "after the fact" for defender clean-up of remaining attackers?


Note that I was not there, I'm just trying to figure out what happened.