cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lanic0r on April 29, 2011, 10:47:10 pm

Title: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on April 29, 2011, 10:47:10 pm
I want you (developing team only) to explain the reduce of speed on knobbed- and spiked mace!

How does it come that my heirloomed Knobbed mace is now slower than the normal version on patch 0.210, inflicts less (4 points) blunt damage and is unballanced?
And the best weapon, THE 2hs still have the same spd rtng 92 and swing damage?
Plz give me a reason!
I have chosen the knobbed mace bacause its the only alternative to 2hr (for example GERMAN GREATSWORD) and to avoid being a 2h coward without ballz.
Give me the point!
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Techno on April 29, 2011, 10:51:25 pm
Nodachi speed and length went down.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Teeth on April 30, 2011, 12:08:19 am
Nodachi speed and length went down.
Maybe 3% of the 2h users use a nodachi. About 80 use either Danish or German greatsword. So 2h pretty much dodged the nerfing.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Rhaelys on April 30, 2011, 12:09:41 am
Maybe 3% of the 2h users use a nodachi. About 80 use either Danish or German greatsword. So 2h pretty much dodged the nerfing.

Check thrust damage on all 2Hs, then come back and say that again. Not that I don't approve.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on April 30, 2011, 12:10:01 am
Maybe 3% of the 2h users use a nodachi. About 80 use either Danish or German greatsword. So 2h pretty much dodged the nerfing.
Right the same thoughts. I wonder whether the developers themselfs are Greatswordwhatever cowards?
AND THE FUCK, Rhealys DONT BE SILLY AND POINT TO THE RIDICOULOUS THRUST NERF! THATS THE ONLY NERF compared to OTHERS
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: cmp on April 30, 2011, 12:35:49 am
- 2h users complaining that 2h is dead and pole is the way to go
- pole users complaining that pole is dead and 2h is the way to go

LOL.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Thucydides on April 30, 2011, 12:37:38 am
me and my Great Long Axe shit on your anal probe weapons
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: IG_Saint on April 30, 2011, 12:46:37 am
- 2h users complaining that 2h is dead and pole is the way to go
- pole users complaining that pole is dead and 2h is the way to go

LOL.

Next up: pole and 2h are dead, 1h is the way to go thread.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Punisher on April 30, 2011, 12:48:15 am
Maybe 3% of the 2h users use a nodachi. About 80 use either Danish or German greatsword. So 2h pretty much dodged the nerfing.

Yes because new shorter and slower stab animation and -7 pierce damage means 2H dodged the nerfing.

2H no longer have the lolstab, hafted polearms were balanced. Now 2H and Polearms now have similar damage, some 2H are faster, but with shorter reach, the stab speed is now the same, polearms got a bit more range on stab (didn't test it properly though). Sounds pretty balanced to me.

Next up: pole and 2h are dead, 1h is the way to go thread.

Melee and cav are obviously dead, archery is the way to go :D
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Espu on April 30, 2011, 01:09:19 am
Archery is dead, slot change killed it. Throwing is the way to go.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Fasader on April 30, 2011, 01:17:15 am
Throwing is dead, can't pick up missed shots. Xbow is obviously the way to go.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Tydeus on April 30, 2011, 01:19:37 am
- 2h users complaining that 2h is dead and pole is the way to go
- pole users complaining that pole is dead and 2h is the way to go

LOL.
Normally I'm the cynical bastard who loves to point out these things, but when I look at numbers, I see a theoretical imbalance. Not only that, but I haven't had a single person who can form a coherent argument provide to me any reason as to how The German Poleaxe and Elegant Poleaxe aren't blatantly better than the German/Danish Greatswords.

Elegant Poleaxe
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 92
shield width: 132
thrust damage: 26 pierce
swing damage: 39 cut
weapon length: 132
Can't use on horseback

Bonus against Shield

15,634
German Greatsword
difficulty: 15
speed rating: 92
shield width: 123
thrust damage: 25 pierce
swing damage: 38 cut
weapon length: 123
Can't use on horseback

Secondary Mode

15,192

I would ask that everyone, the developers especially, try to look more carefully at the people who are posting "x is terrible, y is better than x now". Remember these are blanket statements but most of the time people are only talking about one weapon specifically.

Properly conveying one's thoughts, most people are terrible at it.

Edit: While I'm going to leave this here, I just started playing after the hotfix and pole thrust is back to how it was pre-patch. This changes things significantly.

Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Kafein on April 30, 2011, 03:12:15 am
Polearm maces were really broken (high damage, speed, knockdown and reasonable range) in the hands of some.

All these speed comparisons are just showing that you should not be able to be so fast as you could be v0.212, with mw weapon + dedicated spam build. I think it's better now with the patch.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on April 30, 2011, 09:46:07 am
Polearm maces were really broken (high damage, speed, knockdown and reasonable range) in the hands of some.

All these speed comparisons are just showing that you should not be able to be so fast as you could be v0.212, with mw weapon + dedicated spam build. I think it's better now with the patch.
No its my badluck, evry weapon i have ever used had been nerfed. Why me OMG, its ONLY ME I THINK xD
No, seriously. I need awnsers not "the way to go".
I dont care about throwing weapons because its just a fun weapon on public. I dont care Xbows because its just good for public. Its about Strategus gentleman.
And best thing is, construction site uses 3 slots. How do we built any catapults in Strategus. Sacrefice 75 slots for it? I mean its multiplyer 3 on slots now.
German elegant ULTRA AXE only got 1 point more on swing? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH RAPED
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Paul on April 30, 2011, 10:16:20 am
Long dagger is the way to go now. All the rest is broken.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Torp on April 30, 2011, 10:43:42 am
why the hell have the developers screwed the game up so much, taht only quarter staff is a biable option? i really dont get it! whyyyy!?

everything is broken except quarter staff!
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Teeth on April 30, 2011, 10:44:13 am
Yes because new shorter and slower stab animation and -7 pierce damage means 2H dodged the nerfing.

2H no longer have the lolstab, hafted polearms were balanced. Now 2H and Polearms now have similar damage, some 2H are faster, but with shorter reach, the stab speed is now the same, polearms got a bit more range on stab (didn't test it properly though). Sounds pretty balanced to me.

Melee and cav are obviously dead, archery is the way to go :D
New animation? My german gaysword alt still felt the same when stabbing. They didnt get -7, I believe german greatsword's default stab damage was 30, now 25. Which is a decrease in 5. Okay that is a big nerf, a much needed one.

My major annoyance with this patch are the higher difficulties for pretty much all polearms, without giving a stats reset. Now I have 2,5 million xp left to grind with only a warspear.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Tungsten on April 30, 2011, 11:31:16 am
Maybe 3% of the 2h users use a nodachi. About 80 use either Danish or German greatsword. So 2h pretty much dodged the nerfing.

OH REALLY? I lost 9 pierce damage on my MW Sword of Tears. I laugh in your general direction you knockdown-spamming-lametard.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Cyclopsided on April 30, 2011, 11:37:34 am
Long dagger is the way to go now. All the rest is broken.
Give it 30 pierce man, it doesn't block. Same with dagger [& other knives accordingly]. Shouldn't be nerfed in all categories.
"uses no slot up" is no reason to make it bad.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Penitent on May 02, 2011, 11:18:44 pm
All sword thrusts are pretty bad now actually.
I say return thrust damages, and nerf swing damage.  A thrust is almost always more deadly with a sword than a swing.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Sauce on May 03, 2011, 01:06:40 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Kelugarn on May 03, 2011, 01:24:12 am
Pole is not dead, pole is got, as it always has been  :rolleyes:. Honestly I think the introduction of the long pike and the red tassel spear made poles even better.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Ronan on May 03, 2011, 01:41:57 am
OMG Everythings broken!!! WTF are we going to play with now?!?! AHHH!!!



Ahhh shut up and either play or go away. :P
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Cyclopsided on May 03, 2011, 02:32:29 am
Swords can pierce just fine. When you halfsword them.
The 2h animation thrust sacrifices damage for length and speed. Pole thrust receives dmg at cost of speed and length. Pretty cut and dry.

Oh, and since everything got balanced; everything got balanced. [albeit bugs, bugs, bugs, bugs, etc]
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Banok on May 03, 2011, 05:13:45 am
well polearm stun and 2h stab still need fixing imo.

but take your time i'm mostly playing polearm atm :P
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Gorath on May 03, 2011, 05:18:42 am
- 2h users complaining that 2h is dead and pole is the way to go
- pole users complaining that pole is dead and 2h is the way to go

LOL.

Polearms are fine.  My polearm toon with his long awlpike and great long axe is rockin' and rollin' just like before.

2h WOULD be fine, once you guys see fit to give me my masterwork warcleaver back.  Until then my 2h character is quite literally dead since I don't have my 2her to use.  :(
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: DrKronic on May 03, 2011, 07:07:48 am
HAR!
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Vibe on May 03, 2011, 08:14:16 am
Seems pretty balanced to me now.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: MouthnHoof on May 03, 2011, 10:05:16 am
Big blunt weapons are unbalanced as unbalanced can get. This is how they function. The only thing that makes then fairly fast at the same time is the long shaft and a spaced grip that is mechanically much more efficient than the 2H hilt grip.

Fists is now the way to go
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 10:05:39 am
2h swords are still going through blocks, 2h swords are still OP, "Can't kill phyrex in duel!!!!!!!!"
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Raki on May 03, 2011, 10:45:20 am
2h swords going through blocks? Must be your ping then or something...Either way, 2h stabs really got nerfed beyond usefulness by a huge increase in stun caused by a succesful block. Don't believe me? Pick up any 2h sword and try to "lolstab" people to death now.

As for killing Phyrex in a duel, I managed to do that once yesterday! He kicked my ass in all our other duels though. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Spawny on May 03, 2011, 01:54:12 pm
1h no shield is the way to go.

Imo, both polearms and 2h are fine. As is 1h.

tbh, I haven't found anything I find particularly OP compared to other things. When I get killed by anything it's 90% of the time a skill difference and 10% of the time bad luck/ping/etc.

Sure, some polearms are VERY fast for their size (GLA), but it really doesn't matter which weapon a good player wields, he will kill you with it.
An average player with an OP weapon still gets killed by a more skilled player.

Just give it some time, re-adjust to your new animations/speeds/weaponstats and you'll be kicking my ass in no time.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 02:45:03 pm
2h swords going through blocks? Must be your ping then or something...Either way, 2h stabs really got nerfed beyond usefulness by a huge increase in stun caused by a succesful block. Don't believe me? Pick up any 2h sword and try to "lolstab" people to death now.

As for killing Phyrex in a duel, I managed to do that once yesterday! He kicked my ass in all our other duels though. :rolleyes:

My ping is usually in the 40s-60s, even when its in the low 40s  2h swords go through blocks often. Especially nodachi and 'good' 2h sword users that tend to go through my blocks more than anything.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: karasu on May 03, 2011, 02:57:27 pm
My ping is usually in the 40s-60s, even when its in the low 40s  2h swords go through blocks often. Especially nodachi and 'good' 2h sword users that tend to go through my blocks more than anything.

Then imagine my life, with normal ping 90, most of the times 130, I feel like goddamn Godlike when I manage to block twice in a row, or even more against 2 handers or LHB/Glaive spammers.  :oops:
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: _GTX_ on May 03, 2011, 03:06:32 pm
Called failblocks ? lol. And 2h is shit(GGS,DGS), giant nerf on stab. Swords which were mostly made for stabbing, doesnt even have a better stab than glaives. which isent made so much for stabbing. And the stun you get when your stab gets blocked is lame.

The DGS and GGS is pretty slow too now. Compared to their size and weight.

Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Gondemar on May 03, 2011, 03:36:48 pm
Hmmm... Everyone complaining ? Seems balanced  8-)
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: v/onMega on May 03, 2011, 03:43:36 pm
Called failblocks ? lol. And 2h is shit(GGS,DGS), giant nerf on stab. Swords which were mostly made for stabbing, doesnt even have a better stab than glaives. which isent made so much for stabbing. And the stun you get when your stab gets blocked is lame.

The DGS and GGS is pretty slow too now. Compared to their size and weight.

Valid statement allthough I wont complain...

Ill switch to archery soon as it seems for now....xD
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 03:43:42 pm
Called failblocks ? lol. And 2h is shit(GGS,DGS), giant nerf on stab. Swords which were mostly made for stabbing, doesnt even have a better stab than glaives. which isent made so much for stabbing. And the stun you get when your stab gets blocked is lame.

The DGS and GGS is pretty slow too now. Compared to their size and weight.

Lmao, well if they really were shit I think people like phyrex would have a problem using them, as far as I can see swords have had the least nerfs, just like every patch, 2h swords get nerfed the least. People whine about this polearm or that polearm, mostly 2h users whine about polearms that beat them, because they're so used to winning with their OP 2h they cry when a polearm kills them.

2h swords are faster, stronger, easier to block with and easier to use than probably all the polearms.

I can stand there with a hafted blade and tickle a plate user with half powered hits, a 2h user of the same situation would probably kill the plate user in 2 hits as usual.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Phyrex on May 03, 2011, 03:50:21 pm
2h swords are faster, stronger, easier to block with and easier to use than probably all the polearms.

Are you trolling or simply just a retard? I for one will not take the bait.

My massive two-handed complaint(QQ) thread is being worked upon and will be posted in due time.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Torp on May 03, 2011, 03:55:33 pm
Are you trolling or simply just a retard? I for one will not take the bait.

My massive two-handed complaint(QQ) thread is being worked upon and will be posted in due time.

cant wait :D
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 03:59:54 pm
Are you trolling or simply just a retard? I for one will not take the bait.

My massive two-handed complaint(QQ) thread is being worked upon and will be posted in due time.

Neither, are you a cunt or a cunt?..
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on May 03, 2011, 04:03:08 pm
Heh, I beat Phyrex a few times on the duel server 2 days ago. All due to me blocking his thrusts.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 04:05:45 pm
Heh, I beat Phyrex a few times on the duel server 2 days ago. All due to me blocking his thrusts.

Using a polearm?
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Torp on May 03, 2011, 04:06:23 pm
Using a polearm?

using a katana

btw; 2H's arent better than polearms now taht lolstab has been nerfed imo
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 04:07:09 pm
using a katana

btw; 2H's arent better than polearms now taht lolstab has been nerfed imo

From my experiences those who were OP with lolstab pre-patch are still OP with lolstab.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Torp on May 03, 2011, 04:08:33 pm
From my experiences those who were OP with lolstab pre-patch are still OP with lolstab.

Have you duelled any of the great pre-patch lolstabbers after the new patch?
people like phyrex, Atze, Razzen and those guys ain't half as good as they used to be
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 04:09:20 pm
Have you duelled any of the great pre-patch lolstabbers after the new patch?
people like phyrex, Atze, Razzen and those guys ain't half as good as they used to be

Phyrex and Razzen. And others. I think my failblocks are down to partially the fact that polearms can't block fast enough to block a 2h swing after hitting their block, but sometimes I can't even hit them before it goes through my block. Sometimes I know that they strafed around me ect but there are times when hits clearly go through my blocks.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on May 03, 2011, 04:11:16 pm
All I can tell you is that Phyrex couldn't block my attacks after his thrust, and when we experimented with him blocking my thrust, I couldn't block his attacks either.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 04:12:15 pm
All I can tell you is that Phyrex couldn't block my attacks after his thrust, and when we experimented with him blocking my thrust, I couldn't block his attacks either.

Using some of the fastest 2h swords I can see why, but if you use a polearm, it's still not quick enough to take significant advantage of the block stun. Polearm speed nerf doesn't help the situation either.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on May 03, 2011, 04:13:18 pm
I couldn't block his german greatsword.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 04:14:08 pm
I couldn't block his german greatsword.

Phyrex is the fastest 2h user I know... Lol I'm sure he could make a great maul look like it's going 2000 miles an hour.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Torp on May 03, 2011, 04:15:08 pm
Phyrex is the fastest 2h user I know... Lol I'm sure he could make a great maul look like it's going 2000 miles an hour.

i bet he wouldnt be able to block my LHB either...
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on May 03, 2011, 04:16:23 pm
So, you think it's okay that even though both stood in front of eachother and I knew what direction he was gonna attack from after my stab got block/stunned he managed to hit me without me having a chance to block it?

This is fairly hypothetical on my part in an actual fight, because thrusting with a katana is risky business at best.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Spawny on May 03, 2011, 04:17:41 pm
Yesterday on the duelserver I've had various instances where I blocked a GLA with my longsword (had to block it twice most of the time due to polearm stun) and when I hit back, I got hit by their second attack before mine connected.

This didn't happen due to polearmstun, they were just that fast.

I'm throwing this one on my low proficiency in 2h, but maybe others experience the same.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 04:18:09 pm
So, you think it's okay that even though both stood in front of eachother and I knew what direction he was gonna attack from after my stab got block/stunned he managed to hit me without me having a chance to block it?

This is fairly hypothetical on my part in an actual fight, because thrusting with a katana is risky business at best.

Meh it's not really in the same league as the great lolstabbing swords like the Danish, German and Great.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Kafein on May 03, 2011, 04:19:58 pm
I can stand there with a hafted blade and tickle a plate user with half powered hits, a 2h user of the same situation would probably kill the plate user in 2 hits as usual.

The difference being that now, powerbuild + MW LHB = cheat. Powerbuild + MW GGS isn't. Polearm wpf has a way bigger impact on speed than 2h wpf, and the animation is still too jumpy and the recover time too short. The main problem is the animation being very slow at the beginning when the strike is prepared, then way too fast when it is launched. It's not rare to see a polearm swing begin on one frame and end in the next frame. There's no point in going str polearm (apart from the very situational long maul), so allmost all polearm players just go 12/27 and nearly stunlock people with LHB/Glaive/GLA... The plate user is pretty much hopeless against a polearm agibuild, as he will never catch him due to the lack of speed, and furthermore will have difficulties blocking with all this stun stuff.

2 handers offer some possibilities for str builds (and not especially crushtrough).

On top of that, the only viable weapon for cavalry is the heavy lance, which is a polearm. Many cav are just as good on foot when they take their GLA out of their pocket. I think many polearms should be switched to another weapon class, with only the 4 attack directions weapons, that just are 2 handers with another prof anyway, and that category nerfed someway. Many real polearms (you know, when you use the thrust attack...) don't need a nerf.


Yesterday on the duelserver I've had various instances where I blocked a GLA with my longsword (had to block it twice most of the time due to polearm stun) and when I hit back, I got hit by their second attack before mine connected.

This didn't happen due to polearmstun, they were just that fast.

I'm throwing this one on my low proficiency in 2h, but maybe others experience the same.

Just this. Anyway, go on a duel server with a 2h and try to duel people like murmillus...
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on May 03, 2011, 04:21:51 pm
Meh it's not really in the same league as the great lolstabbing swords like the Danish, German and Great.
I think you missed the point. The point was that neither could block eachothers attack, after our thrust had been blocked(and therefore stunned).
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 03, 2011, 04:23:29 pm
The difference being that now, powerbuild + MW LHB = cheat. Powerbuild + MW GGS isn't. Polearm wpf has a way bigger impact on speed than 2h wpf, and the animation is still too jumpy and the recover time too short. The main problem is the animation being very slow at the beginning when the strike is prepared, then way too fast when it is launched. It's not rare to see a polearm swing begin on one frame and end in the next frame. There's no point in going str polearm (apart from the very situational long maul), so allmost all polearm players just go 12/27 and nearly stunlock people with LHB/Glaive/GLA... The plate user is pretty much hopeless against a polearm agibuild, as he will never catch him due to the lack of speed, and furthermore will have difficulties blocking with all this stun stuff.

2 handers offer some possibilities for str builds (and not especially crushtrough).

On top of that, the only viable weapon for cavalry is the heavy lance, which is a polearm. Many cav are just as good on foot when they take their GLA out of their pocket. I think many polearms should be switched to another weapon class, with only the 4 attack directions weapons, that just are 2 handers with another prof anyway, and that category nerfed someway. Many real polearms (you know, when you use the thrust attack...) don't need a nerf.

I've not been using the LHB since the patch came out, I've been using a Long axe, 93 speed. I had block issues with LHB previously vs 2h swords, since the patches that came at the start of the year. Now I have block issues with another polearm vs 2h swords.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Kafein on May 03, 2011, 04:25:56 pm
I've never had block issues with anything without lag involved, so... Sometimes my low proficiency on a low level makes it slow but that's normal.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: BlackMilk on June 13, 2011, 10:05:36 am

2h swords are faster, stronger, easier to block with and easier to use than probably all the polearms.
wrong - wrong - WHAT? - wrong.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: rustyspoon on June 13, 2011, 03:31:23 pm
Overall I think melee is pretty well balanced nowadays. Just take away polearm stun (and I main polearm) and I'll be happy.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Vibe on June 13, 2011, 03:38:38 pm
Overall I think melee is pretty well balanced nowadays. Just take away polearm stun (and I main polearm) and I'll be happy.

Agree.

Also: unnecessary necro.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on June 13, 2011, 05:27:19 pm
I dont care the Lolstab advantage but: 1 . Overranged in Overhead. my polearm is 133 but 2h german or danish reaches more than that, thats too much for my taste. Phyrex, Atze, Cicero ... are as good they exploit the 2h bugs, mot more!
2. heirloomed on masterwork is 94 in spt, almost evry setting is increasing by 2 points.
this game will  be ballanced if the donkey crew distinguish between public and duel.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Tzar on June 13, 2011, 05:39:16 pm
- 2h users complaining that 2h is dead and pole is the way to go
- pole users complaining that pole is dead and 2h is the way to go

LOL.

Means you must have done something right  :mrgreen:
'
ANd yes on a sidenote polearm stun is.... well... its just out of place  :?
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on June 13, 2011, 05:54:05 pm
Means you must have done something right  :mrgreen:
'
ANd yes on a sidenote polearm stun is.... well... its just out of place  :?
what polearm stun?
what do you mean?
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on June 13, 2011, 07:03:37 pm
what polearm stun?
what do you mean?

When you hit a target with a polearm, it stuns them longer then a normal hits does, and can also stop horses with a stab of which no other weapon can (unless you use a 2hander in, you guessed it, polearm mode).
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on June 13, 2011, 07:20:13 pm
bah, this tiny stun is usefull for public but not for duel. you wont hit noone twice bacause of this ms. i wonder what the intention of donkey crew is?
Make duel more interesting if you can decide between german and danish sword? plz Nerf the polearm more, i still can attack!
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: BlackMilk on June 13, 2011, 07:34:33 pm
Quote
bah, this tiny stun is usefull for public but not for duel. you wont hit noone twice bacause of this ms. i wonder what the intention of donkey crew is?
Make duel more interesting if you can decide between german and danish sword? plz Nerf the polearm more, i still can attack!
said the die-hard polearm lobbyist.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on June 13, 2011, 07:44:43 pm
There are no block issues, block bugs or whatever, you just release the rmb to early. That way the animation that you see on your screen still looks like you are blocking but the moment you release your rmb it will go trough no matter if the weapon is still in a block position.

Oh and about the tread: Its utter bullcrap, QQ and completely subjective
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Swiftshot on June 13, 2011, 07:52:51 pm
I feel that stuff is mostly balanced at the moment..

Except for that damn Bec! Sound the nerf horn damnit!   :evil:  :twisted:
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: jspook on June 13, 2011, 08:02:41 pm
I dont understand why ANY polearm user is complaining about 2H, when the stats on the the weapons themselves clearly reflect the superiority of the polearms.  any failings on the part of the polearm users in duel, battle, or otherwise is simply fail on their own part.

If you were to compare all of the top tier weapons across the classes, you will see that the 2H has a pretty lackluster rating compared to both 1H and PA.
The 1H gets a sweet speed boost, with excellent range and decent cut in exchange for high damage output of other classes.  The polearms appear to sacrifice nothing, while the 2H have pretty much less in EVERY category.  What more do polearm users need to succeed??


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Paul on June 13, 2011, 08:14:36 pm
I'm lovin' it.

High weight is both good and bad. Bad because of slower movement speed, obviously. Good, because high weight allows longer stun and also protects against stun/crushthrough. I personally think the advantages "outweight" the movement penalty here.

Also, one can't simply compare the reach of weapons in different categories. 2h animation give a big range bonus compared to polearms. 1h animations have both advantages and disadvantages and their only "reachy" attack is the right-to-left swing. Comparing the speed is also difficult because of the animation differences.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Joseph on June 13, 2011, 08:17:37 pm
Archery is dead, slot change killed it. Throwing is the way to go.

PROPAGANDA
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on June 13, 2011, 08:21:31 pm
I'm lovin' it.

High weight is both good and bad. Bad because of slower movement speed, obviously. Good, because high weight allows longer stun and also protects against stun/crushthrough. I personally think the advantages "outweight" the movement penalty here.

Also, one can't simply compare the reach of weapons in different categories. 2h animation give a big range bonus compared to polearms. 1h animations have both advantages and disadvantages and their only "reachy" attack is the right-to-left swing. Comparing the speed is also difficult because of the animation differences.
Paul my friend, i  donated because of you:D
but tell me paul, is it possible for you to change the overhead range of 2h to make in more ballanced or is it shitty hardcoded. You gave 2h at masterwork 2 bonus speed, pirce and cut. THATS not nice if you remeber the OVERrange ( Overhead and Stab with 2h danish or german greatsword).
its incredible, my polearm is 133 but a 124 polearm has got a bigger range. they can beat me with the exception of side swing. thats not fair, i have disatvatages more over as a polearm user.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Phyrex on June 13, 2011, 08:46:59 pm
Hard facts:

Two-Handed
- ???

Polearm
- More damage.
- Better thrust.
- Bonus against shields.
- Hit stun. Stagger effect when hit.
- Weapon stun, polearms are generally heavier.
- Horse stopping thrust.
- Cavalry equipment - lances.
- Anti-cav and support - pikes. Oh and lets not forget that you can thrust-curve around teammates and overhead through teammates on enemies.

Doesn't require a rocket-scientist to understand that two-handed is vastly inferior to polearms.

Will the developers fix the two-hand class or just ignore it as usual?
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on June 13, 2011, 09:09:02 pm
Two-Handed
- ???

Polearm
- More damage. (what pole are you talking about?)
- Better thrust. (OMG you cant be serious you LolstaberxD )
- Bonus against shields. (helpful against 2hs ?)
- Hit stun. Stagger effect when hit. (oh yeah i see, evry time i hit i have 1min to hit the poor stuned guy over and over 8D)
- Weapon stun, polearms are generally heavier. (ye its the weight, neither the length nor the speed. CLEAR :D )
- Horse stopping thrust. (evryone can pick up a staff/pike to stop a horse, but wait on duel you fight horses in major right? D: )
- Cavalry equipment - lances. (evryone can use lances but lancers need to set points on riding. so we cant tank us like 2h with IF)
- Anti-cav and support - pikes. Oh and lets not forget that you can thrust-curve around teammates and overhead through teammates on enemies. (ye Mr. Lolstaber the CURVE xD)

Doesn't require a rocket-scientist to understand that two-handed is vastly inferior to polearms.

You dont seem to be a rocket-scientist more  a 2h lobbyist. Very weak your "hard facts".
Dont fear the balance Mr. Lolstab!


Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Kafein on June 13, 2011, 09:11:52 pm
I want you (developing team only) to explain the reduce of speed on knobbed- and spiked mace!

How does it come that my heirloomed Knobbed mace is now slower than the normal version on patch 0.210, inflicts less (4 points) blunt damage and is unballanced?
And the best weapon, THE 2hs still have the same spd rtng 92 and swing damage?
Plz give me a reason!
I have chosen the knobbed mace bacause its the only alternative to 2hr (for example GERMAN GREATSWORD) and to avoid being a 2h coward without ballz.
Give me the point!

The reason :

Knockdown.

/terminate thread


Btw, you two are ridiculous. Swing polearms and 2h are more similar than any other couple of weapon categories.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Siiem on June 13, 2011, 09:12:09 pm
Lanicor... wow, just wow.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on June 13, 2011, 09:13:51 pm
The reason :

Knockdown.

/terminate thread


Btw, you two are ridiculous. Swing polearms and 2h are more similar than any other couple of weapon categories.
come on duel i will show you the overange of 2h if you dont belive :D oh wait, i was talking about OVERHEAD AND STAB. i pointed out the sideswing is not buged xD
Knockdown is a advantage i agree, but its only one compared to 2h
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Kafein on June 13, 2011, 09:15:55 pm
come on duel i will show you the overange of 2h if you dont belive :D

Tradeoffs. What you loose in reach, you win it with something else.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Phyrex on June 13, 2011, 09:31:09 pm

Two-Handed
- ???

Polearm
- More damage. (what pole are you talking about?)

 Oh I don't know... maybe Elegant Poleaxe, German Poleaxe, Great Long Axe, Poleaxe, Bec de Corbin. Are these enough?


- Better thrust. (OMG you cant be serious you LolstaberxD )

 So, polearm thrust isn't faster and doesn't glance and get stunned nearly as much as the two-handed one does?


- Bonus against shields. (helpful against 2hs ?)

No, but against shields, maybe?


- Hit stun. Stagger effect when hit. (oh yeah i see, evry time i hit i have 1min to hit the poor stuned guy over and over 8D)

Trolling much?


- Weapon stun, polearms are generally heavier. (ye its the weight, neither the length nor the speed. CLEAR :D )

What are you on about?


- Horse stopping thrust. (evryone can pick up a staff/pike to stop a horse, but wait on duel you fight horses in major right? D: )

What has duelling with this to do?


- Cavalry equipment - lances. (evryone can use lances but lancers need to set points on riding. so we cant tank us like 2h with IF)

This is just in general.


- Anti-cav and support - pikes. Oh and lets not forget that you can thrust-curve around teammates and overhead through teammates on enemies. (ye Mr. Lolstaber the CURVE xD)

Save for the fact that I can't thrust-curve around my team-mates on enemies because I'll hit them. Same with overhead.


Doesn't require a rocket-scientist to understand that two-handed is vastly inferior to polearms.

You dont seem to be a rocket-scientist more  a 2h lobbyist. Very weak your "hard facts".
Dont fear the balance Mr. Lolstab!

I've never said I was a rocket-scientist, just that one doesn't need to be one to see it. What does that make you, Lanic0r?

Once again I'm not sure if you're trolling or just being a retard, though this time, I took the bait.

[Edit]: I'm not lobbying for a Polearm nerf, because Polearms are fine and are perfect as they are and should be. All I'm kindly asking for is to have Two-Handed swords, both Great Swords and the bastard-sword variants, to be on the same 'level' as the current and equivalent polearm variants but still retaining it's individual cons and pros.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Baggy on June 13, 2011, 09:40:54 pm
I think someone dropped Lanc0r on his head when he was born....
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lanic0r on June 13, 2011, 10:02:08 pm
Ok i try to make my self clear.
I like the overange stab of 2h, it makes them special and individual.
"what has duel to do with?"
Thats what im talking about. Evry patch was to balance the public imo (JONGE!)
Is it concidence that most "good" players use 2h german/danish? My feeling and experience say: no!
Duel, that matters. And you try to declare poles are fine ballanced? Interesting, i remember you said long great axe is now the imperior weapon. You used it but failed on duel much. but on public it was great you said you killed more players than before.
Dont mix up public with duel.
And im not trolling its simply funny you try to explain polearms are fine. as you said you never have played polearm from bottom up.
Retire and make a polearm char, i will make a 2h. Than i will teach you!
And im asking kindly: Paul, could your donkey crew care about the overhead bugrange of 2hs?
And in addition, evryone has got enough gold to upkeep weapons. on duel you dont need upkeep, therefore im beging you: make duel balanced, not public.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Siiem on June 14, 2011, 12:23:08 am
 :lol:
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Tzar on June 14, 2011, 03:04:51 am
Shouldn't this be in the balance discussion forum  :?:
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Vibe on June 14, 2011, 08:02:46 am
Haha, what a load of bs, polearms are fine except for the stun.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: BlackMilk on June 14, 2011, 10:09:31 am
Phyrex won.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on June 14, 2011, 12:02:35 pm
2h got smacked in the face but people also want to knee it in the ballz it seems, oh the cruelty
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Lisandro on June 14, 2011, 12:40:25 pm
Phyrex won.
+1, irrefutable arguments, mathematics is not an opinion
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Elerion on June 14, 2011, 02:47:14 pm
+1, irrefutable arguments, mathematics is not an opinion
Actually, comparing Elegant Poleaxe and Danish Greatsword:
Speed: Tie.
Damage: Tie. Elegant wins by 2 damage on thrust, Danish wins by 1 damage on swing.
Swing length: Danish wins by between 6 and 20 range, depending on swing (According to THIS POST (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,5439.msg106412.html#msg106412) by Gurnisson).
Thrust length: Unknown after patch (?). Pre-patch, Danish won this by 53 range.
Weapon stun (weight): Danish wins, but only very slightly (2.5wt vs 2.0wt).
Bonus against shields: Poleaxe wins.
Polearm stun: Poleaxe wins.
Horse stopping thrust: Poleaxe wins.

Looks pretty balanced to me. Polearms have added versatility for lance and pike users, though.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Shinimas on June 14, 2011, 03:37:48 pm
Quote
Oh I don't know... maybe Elegant Poleaxe, German Poleaxe, Great Long Axe, Poleaxe, Bec de Corbin. Are these enough?

They all come with downsides. Speed and factual reach. Plus polearms are worse than 2H for facehugging due to different sweetspot allocation.

Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: DrKronic on June 14, 2011, 04:14:30 pm
This is a false thread, polearms are stronger than two hands, basically between the stun and the fact that the poleaxes are better at more stuff (great thrusts and cuts, anti horse and antishield at same time)

Look at my stats on nacrpg.net, my ten heirloom two hander gets 3.09, my polearm gets 3.27 kpd (and has one heirloom and is leveling, 2hander is level 32

People avoid the myriad advantages polearms have (great #noshield# weapons, awesome longass support weapons, shield usable wpf weapons, horse rear, strongest antishield/antihorse all in one poleaxes, inherent stun effect due to highest average weapon weight


Twohand should not be just easy to shoot to death version of polearms without horse rear, if anyone has been playin g two hand u would know we've gone through more major nerfs than anything

Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Cicero on June 15, 2011, 06:40:17 pm
Two-Handed
- ???

Polearm
- More damage. (what pole are you talking about?)
- Better thrust. (OMG you cant be serious you LolstaberxD )
- Bonus against shields. (helpful against 2hs ?)
- Hit stun. Stagger effect when hit. (oh yeah i see, evry time i hit i have 1min to hit the poor stuned guy over and over 8D)
- Weapon stun, polearms are generally heavier. (ye its the weight, neither the length nor the speed. CLEAR :D )
- Horse stopping thrust. (evryone can pick up a staff/pike to stop a horse, but wait on duel you fight horses in major right? D: )
- Cavalry equipment - lances. (evryone can use lances but lancers need to set points on riding. so we cant tank us like 2h with IF)
- Anti-cav and support - pikes. Oh and lets not forget that you can thrust-curve around teammates and overhead through teammates on enemies. (ye Mr. Lolstaber the CURVE xD)

Doesn't require a rocket-scientist to understand that two-handed is vastly inferior to polearms.

You dont seem to be a rocket-scientist more  a 2h lobbyist. Very weak your "hard facts".
Dont fear the balance Mr. Lolstab!


Im killing you without using block what type of balance u want ? Like arming 2h takes 10 seconds ?
Everyclass got something OP which is not OP against OP =)
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: wayyyyyne on June 15, 2011, 09:03:44 pm
Fun fact: Lanic0r is a below average shitty duelist and is just pissed because he's unable to take out 2h demigod duelists with his triple loomed long hafted knobbed mace he expected a knockdown and free kill from everytime he eventually hits his enemy.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Cicero on June 15, 2011, 09:21:03 pm
Fun fact: Lanic0r is a below average shitty duelist and is just pissed because he's unable to take out 2h demigod duelists with his triple loomed long hafted knobbed mace he expected a knockdown and free kill from everytime he eventually hits his enemy.
good point of view for a backpedaller 2h user =)
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: BlackMilk on June 15, 2011, 10:05:21 pm
Lanic0r is an average duelist. He's using an unbalanced weapon, goddamn.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Thucydides on June 16, 2011, 01:19:51 am
2h and polearms require completely different styles, they are comparable but in duels 2h is clearly superior. However a smart polearmer can do just as well as a 2h in a duel if he utilizes good holds and footwork. Because of the hit stun, polearms can get a free second shot if they play their cards right and get a hit, but most polearms are dumb spammers and then whine because they can't outspam a 2h.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Vibe on June 16, 2011, 07:52:14 am
i are smart pole spammer
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Joseph on June 16, 2011, 08:18:19 am
Strength of polearm: Delayed attack. (look like spaming)
Strength of sword: Feinting. (look like spaming)
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: HarunYahya on June 16, 2011, 11:25:05 am
I've played both 2hander and polearm .
I am not a good duelist compared to other skillful players i see here , i consider myself as average player.
I try to duel and learn as much as i can and so far i can tell you these:
2hander class as a sword wielder has much more potentials on duels.Animation of attack and block is helping to confuse your opponent very much if you combine your feints,turns and footwork.
When you block to cancel your swing and start swinging from other side(Feinting) , you can barely see that block if you are using a 2handed weapon but if you are using a polearm it is obvious that you block so it is easily understandable that you canceled your swing and you are going to swing from other side which completely doesn't confuse your opponent so he/she will either attack you or block your 2nd swing so, polearm animation is not feint friendly .
Here is the problem:
Polearm users are trying to use techniques which work on 2handed weapons.
Feinting works very good on 2handed weapons and it is a good way to confuse your opponents mind but it doesn't work on polearms.
People keep trying to feint with polearms and when they fail,they blame 2h as OP.
I suggest trying these instead of feinting with polearms:
(click to show/hide)


I think polearm is a very good class but harder to learn how to use on 1v1 situations . In battle if you hit an enemy with a polearm there are 2 outcomes
1-You kill him
2-Since you stun him,your teammate will finish him off.
Yes 2handed swords out reach polearms but this is natural i think.
I see no unbalance problem between 2h and polearm.
As i said,the only problem is polearm users are trying to fight like 2handers.
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on June 16, 2011, 03:18:51 pm
Good post Koyama. +1 for you. :)
Title: Re: Polearm spd rtng 92? 2H spd rtng still the same?
Post by: Wolves_Riki_H on June 17, 2011, 05:49:48 pm
im a 2hander and i play duel quite a lot i think im at the average or maybe a bit above average skill level.  somehow i find polearm feints harder to block than 2hands or other weapon maybe because of the animation.. making me feel dizzy sometimes -_-