cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tydeus on April 29, 2011, 05:55:18 pm
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Currently there is a lot of talk about a database wipe and the players who think it's a great idea are saying because they want to level the playing field(which doesn't coincide with an "rpg" mod) and because people play too much. Both statements are illogical and not in the interest of literally anyone.
Previously if you retired once, you reached your second retirement 10% faster than the first time. That means for those that don't have much time to play cRPG, you cut off a lot of time before you got your first masterworked weapon. Now, with total XP not having changed and each retirement only being 3% faster, you have to spend quite a bit more time to get those heirlooms. People with no life are going to play just as much as before, and they're going to get heirlooms regardless of what you do. The difference, is that you're going to have to spend more time playing just to get a single masterworked weapon.
The gap between the Have's and the Have-Not's will only widen. I assure you, those asking for a database wipe who don't have a lot of time to play crpg or who "have a life", it's in your best interest to:
A) Not have a database wipe, putting you farther away from a masterwork
B) Have the old XP system with 10% bonus XP per retirement.
The only two ways that the heirloom system can become balanced are:
1) Heirlooms aren't given by anything related to time spent playing. Meaning you don't retire at level 31 and get a free heirloom.
2) Heirlooms are given out through events such as tournaments or strategus.
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I wish the leveling would completely fall of, everyone starts with lvl 30 and all he gains by playing is gold.
Upgrading weapons would only cost an immense amount of gold, and gaming would be better balanced, i think.
Counter Strike with swords and armor.
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Counter-Strike with swords and armor. That's called playing Native Warband. :x
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I wish the leveling would completely fall of, everyone starts with lvl 30 and all he gains by playing is gold.
Upgrading weapons would only cost an immense amount of gold, and gaming would be better balanced, i think.
Counter Strike with swords and armor.
i really agree with that. i would really like to start at level 30 with a fixed amount of heirlooms for everyone. example 3 or 6. so someone have to choose to have a masterwork weapon and a lordly piece of armor or to have a MW main weapon and a MW secondary weapon or horse or whatever.
this will add character customization while keeping the mod grind-proof. the only grind part will be quite easy. dress light or rags to make money, dress the shiny stuff when the match is on fire.
for more character variety i would like to see a higher level cap. like 35 or 39. we have the slot nerf anyway so most hybrids will not be possible anymore. but this will give deeper customization along with faster and deadlier fights.
the retirement system then will give ONLY the possibility to try different builds without any further advantage. and capped one once a week or once two weeks.
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Perhaps heirlooms could be given out as awards for actions in strategus.
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Those that have no life: Have No Fear, This XP System Benefits Only You!
Why are you so against it then? I know your weekly average :twisted:
Anyways, just steal the looms again and it will all average out with the new XP cap
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Why are you so against it then? I know your weekly average :twisted:
Anyways, just steal the looms again and it will all average out with the new XP cap
My qualm is that I lose the ability to retire into new specs often. An ability that I think everyone should have but that seems less likely to me than reverting to the old xp system.
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I wish the leveling would completely fall of, everyone starts with lvl 30 and all he gains by playing is gold.
Upgrading weapons would only cost an immense amount of gold, and gaming would be better balanced, i think.
Counter Strike with swords and armor.
I agree that XP and gold should be two different reward system. Heirloomed stuff should cost more (to purchase, repair and sell) and be a gold sink (you wanna take the precious ancestors' sword to the battle? Pay for it!).
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Tydeus, I think you're not quite right here.
The thing is that the bonus you get from heirlooming has also been nerfed a bit, so the heirloomed items don't have a clear advantage over the non-heirloomed ones (well, at least you can compensate the difference with your skill). If the wipe is inevitable, I guess I'll stick to gen 1 character after it.
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Tydeus, I think you're not quite right here.
The thing is that the bonus you get from heirlooming has also been nerfed a bit, so the heirloomed items don't have a clear advantage over the non-heirloomed ones (well, at least you can compensate the difference with your skill). If the wipe is inevitable, I guess I'll stick to gen 1 character after it.
Right, but wiping has nothing to do with this, nor does the xp system. I'm down with lowering the advantage of looms, but this is already in place and wouldn't be affected regardless of the xp system in place or whether or not there was a wipe.
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Why don't you just implement some kind of respec system. Instead of having to start all over and people bitching about XP bonus' and what not, just crank up the XP requirement per level a bit, and make it possible to respec your stats. Or don't crank up the XP requirement, either way most of the high gen people seem to be bitching because they can't reclass every couple of days and aren't really concerned about their heirlooms (or so it seems). Hand out heirlooms based on winning events like Tydeus stated.
Personally, I'm Gen2 and don't even use my heirloomed item anymore. I'm currently 30 and won't be retiring at 31 because it's not that big of a deal to me to have heirloomed items, since I have to start all over and suck again anyways. The only reason why I would retire at 31 again is if my build was jacked up, which a respec would fix.
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I'm only gen 5 (well, just turned gen 6 yesterday until the rollback) and I can already say that I value the xp bonus way more than the heirloomed equipment I've gotten. I like to spec ranged and then melee and try different builds, and I enjoy the fact that I'll be able to have the gold available to try new builds and experiment.
In my opinion heirlooms have a minimal impact on gameplay.. when I lose to someone it isn't because they have a full set of heirloomed equipment, but because they outplayed me. People often try to justify losing to someone in any way they can, and heirlooms seem like the easiest thing to point at (and thus complain about) when in reality the advantage is quite small.
So I agree with Tydeus; don't wipe the database. At the very least let the dust settle a bit instead of making a snap decision.
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My qualm is that I lose the ability to retire into new specs often. An ability that I think everyone should have but that seems less likely to me than reverting to the old xp system.
If everyone could retire every couple days like you then it isn't a MMO anymore, might as well play native. TBH I wouldn't mind if it was like a normal MMORPG where there is a level cap and you are stuck at it and looms and upgraded weps and the like come from Strategus (if or when it comes back online)
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Hi, I'm Tydeus's friend, KAYNE_WEST. I'm just going to share my thoughts on the topic.
As a fairly new player (gen-1, 8.3 mil into 31) at about 70 hours into this character, I can tell you with certainty that I will not play the c-RPG mod any longer with the reductions on the XP bonus.
For what purpose was the XP bonus nerf put in place? To cut down on heirlooms? To cut down on rewarding those who play more often than others? For either of these two reasons, if you support either, you're fucking stupid.
1.)Cutting down on heirlooms:
First of all, heirlooms didn't mean too much before. Let's be serious here, I'm fucking horrible, yet I would rape some kids with heirlooms. Case in point: Watching Rhade in the battle server. Pretty sure he isn't rolling in gen-16 looms.
Second of all, were they not nerfed heavily with this patch? Damage, whatever else got fucking buffed with looming, pretty sure it all got lowered. They were also indirectly nerfed with double-slots and upkeep increases. Maybe not by a lot, but this stuff adds up.
2.)Rewarding those who play more.
LOL.
Was trying to cut rewards to those who play more a serious reason? You do know that's at the heart of every MMO, even more so for every MMORPG, yes? Better yet, it's at the heart of every game. As someone who was still riding that grind pony to his first retirement, I had no problems with the next guy being gen 10. Gen 12. Gen 16. And seeing them retire every 2-3 days. In fact, that drove me to play more. I wanted that. Fuck the heirlooms. I wanted to be able to experiment with builds, try hybrids, try cavalry, try archery. That has been robbed from every low gen player right now. For myself, it is no longer a possibility.
The change in XP simply decreases the possibilities of fun, and widens the gap between the rich and Poor Richard.
I did not get raped because the guy had looms, I got raped because he's better.
I did not get raped because he can retire faster, I got raped because he's better.
In an RPG, you have to have something to build towards, to strive after. With these changes, I have a better shot at this in a Korean MMO. I'm pretty sure that's not the direction this game wants to be taking.
EDIT: Fixed my Engrish.
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Hi, I'm Tydeus's friend, KAYNE_WEST. I'm just going to share my thoughts on the topic.
As a fairly new player (gen-1, 8.3 mil to 31) at about 70 hours into this character, I can tell you with certainty that I will not play the c-RPG mod any longer with the reductions on the XP bonus.
For what purpose was the XP bonus nerf put in place? To cut down on heirlooms? To cut down on rewarding those who play more often than others? For either of these two reasons, if you support either, you're fucking stupid.
1.)Cutting down on heirlooms:
First of all, heirlooms didn't mean too much before. I've had Tydeus Let's be serious here, I'm fucking horrible, yet I would rape some kids with heirlooms. Case in point: Watching Rhade in the battle server. Pretty sure he isn't rolling in gen-16 looms.
Second of all, were they not nerfed heavily with this patch? Damage, whatever else got fucking buffed with looming, pretty sure it all got lowered. They were also indirectly nerfed with double-slots and upkeep increases. Maybe not by a lot, but this stuff adds up.
2.)Rewarding those who play more.
LOL.
Was trying to cut rewards to those who play more a serious reason? You do know that's at the heart of every MMO, even more so for every MMORPG, yes? Better yet, it's at the heart of every game. As someone who was still riding that grind pony to his first retirement, I had no problems with the next guy being gen 10. Gen 12. Gen 16. And seeing them retire every 2-3 days. In fact, that drove me to play more. I wanted that. Fuck the heirlooms. I wanted to be able to experiment with builds, try hybrids, try cavalry, try archery. That has been robbed from every low gen player right now. For myself, it is no longer a possibility.
The change in XP simply decreases the possibilities of fun, and widens the gap between the rich and Poor Richard.
I did not get raped because the guy had looms, I got raped because he's better.
I did not get raped because he can retire faster, I got raped because he's better.
In an RPG, you have to have something to build towards, to strive after. With these changes, I have a better shot at this in a Korean MMO. I'm pretty sure that's not the direction this game wants to be taking.
Man you just said every single thing I think! +1!
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I thought the lowered xp bonus was a good thing, but I also thought that we were going to get a base xp of 1500 or something. Now it takes like 60-70 hours for a gen and after a shitload of gens it will be 50-60. That jsut blows and it is too long. Ah well when I get the heirlooms I wanted I will just never go to 31 again and just retire early if I want a new build.
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Hi, I'm Tydeus's friend, KAYNE_WEST. I'm just going to share my thoughts on the topic.
As a fairly new player (gen-1, 8.3 mil to 31) at about 70 hours into this character, I can tell you with certainty that I will not play the c-RPG mod any longer with the reductions on the XP bonus.
For what purpose was the XP bonus nerf put in place? To cut down on heirlooms? To cut down on rewarding those who play more often than others? For either of these two reasons, if you support either, you're fucking stupid.
1.)Cutting down on heirlooms:
First of all, heirlooms didn't mean too much before. I've had Tydeus Let's be serious here, I'm fucking horrible, yet I would rape some kids with heirlooms. Case in point: Watching Rhade in the battle server. Pretty sure he isn't rolling in gen-16 looms.
Second of all, were they not nerfed heavily with this patch? Damage, whatever else got fucking buffed with looming, pretty sure it all got lowered. They were also indirectly nerfed with double-slots and upkeep increases. Maybe not by a lot, but this stuff adds up.
2.)Rewarding those who play more.
LOL.
Was trying to cut rewards to those who play more a serious reason? You do know that's at the heart of every MMO, even more so for every MMORPG, yes? Better yet, it's at the heart of every game. As someone who was still riding that grind pony to his first retirement, I had no problems with the next guy being gen 10. Gen 12. Gen 16. And seeing them retire every 2-3 days. In fact, that drove me to play more. I wanted that. Fuck the heirlooms. I wanted to be able to experiment with builds, try hybrids, try cavalry, try archery. That has been robbed from every low gen player right now. For myself, it is no longer a possibility.
The change in XP simply decreases the possibilities of fun, and widens the gap between the rich and Poor Richard.
I did not get raped because the guy had looms, I got raped because he's better.
I did not get raped because he can retire faster, I got raped because he's better.
In an RPG, you have to have something to build towards, to strive after. With these changes, I have a better shot at this in a Korean MMO. I'm pretty sure that's not the direction this game wants to be taking.
pretty much my thoughts as well... as long as there is something to be gained, those who play more will get it, those who dont, bitch. simple. guess ill quit til i get my xp back
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I thought the lowered xp bonus was a good thing, but I also thought that we were going to get a base xp of 1500 or something. Now it takes like 60-70 hours for a gen and after a shitload of gens it will be 50-60. That jsut blows and it is too long. Ah well when I get the heirlooms I wanted I will just never go to 31 again and just retire early if I want a new build.
Problem with this, is that lacking levels is more of a gimp than fighting someone with heirlooms when you don't even have one. Levels single handedly play the largest role in a player's effectiveness. And indeed, I think most people who thought the lower bonus was good because the base xp of 1500 would mean that EVERYONE levels faster. Instead everyone is just a hell of a lot slower, and everyone is worse off since they're going to be missing levels more than they are heirlooms.
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i liked being able to switch builds quite often while still playing on my main... cant do that anymore, and that kinda ruins the game for me.
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I agree with Tydeus' argument, and I nominate KANYE_WEST for president. +1
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im thoroughly surprised there haven't been anyone replying negatively towards this...my views are i started at 1500 at x1 when this patch came out, I WORKED my way up to 3000 at x1, and am now at 1450 at x1.... /wrists nope not doing it
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Levels single handedly play the largest role in a player's effectiveness.
You couldn't be more wrong, this generation I actually picked a hunting xbow + steel bolts and had some kills starting level 4.
Yet I agree with you all - I get bored quick and I tend to enjoy quick progression on lower levels more than the high level grind when all your toon is already made and good for fighting. The exp nerf stands against everything I belive in.
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You couldn't be more wrong, this generation I actually picked a hunting xbow + steel bolts and had some kills starting level 4.
Yet I agree with you all - I get bored quick and I tend to enjoy quick progression on lower levels more than the high level grind when all your toon is already made and good for fighting. The exp nerf stands against everything I belive in.
Woah, you definitely took me out of context.
I'm a person who generally starts toping charts again starting from level 10. I'm not talking about what a person can or cannot do. I'm talking about what power strike does, compared to what 2/4/6 base damage does or 2/4/6 armor does.
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funny how people continue to say how "topping charts = skill"
i'm up for a:
- charwipe
- xp bonus to soften the grind
- heirloom items cap
- heirloom exchange
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funny how people continue to say how "topping charts = skill"
Warning, red herring.
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funny how people continue to say how "topping charts = skill"
Not sure where this is found in the thread or how it holds any relevance here. Are you suggesting something else?
psbtw I normally agree that KD != skill. Though players with high skill do often have a great K:D/top charts.
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psbtw I normally agree that KD != skill. Though players with high skill do often have a great K:D/top charts.
Indeed. They used to be called archers. Now they're called Cavalry. I think, and hope, that cavalry will get their lance capabilities back, even though that means they'll chew me up even more than they already do. =(
Regarding the OP:
As for the former XP system being to the benefit of low level players, you're not exactly correct. It was, objectively speaking, to everyone's benefit to gain more XP at an increasing rate. Yet we must keep this in relative terms. Relatively speaking, it was much to the detriment of low gen characters because the rate of growth was constantly increasing, giving more and better gear to higher generation characters at an increasing rate. This is called positive feedback, and in the real world, any such system is broken. Electric circuits, wildlife populations, anything that gets bigger at an increasing rate with nothing to keep it in check is dangerous. For our game, it's similarly detrimental. The only limitation involved is what a character can use/wear at any given time. That's a pretty weak balancing factor.
So yes, you're right that this XP system favors high gen characters the most. They lost the most, but they also have far, far more generations and heirlooms already. The current "fix" is good because at least it has curbed the growth rate of the ridiculously high gen folks, but that's about the only thing that was solved. Furthermore, low gen folks are now crippled like high-gen, so they do not have the capacity to gain what others did over the high-XP days of the previous version/last five months.
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Indeed. They used to be called archers. Now they're called Cavalry. I think, and hope, that cavalry will get their lance capabilities back, even though that means they'll chew me up even more than they already do. =(
Regarding the OP:
As for the former XP system being to the benefit of low level players, you're not exactly correct. It was, objectively speaking, to everyone's benefit to gain more XP at an increasing rate. Yet we must keep this in relative terms. Relatively speaking, it was much to the detriment of low gen characters because the rate of growth was constantly increasing, giving more and better gear to higher generation characters at an increasing rate. This is called positive feedback, and in the real world, any such system is broken. Electric circuits, wildlife populations, anything that gets bigger at an increasing rate with nothing to keep it in check is dangerous. For our game, it's similarly detrimental. The only limitation involved is what a character can use/wear at any given time. That's a pretty weak balancing factor.
So yes, you're right that this XP system favors high gen characters the most. They lost the most, but they also have far, far more generations and heirlooms already. The current "fix" is good because at least it has curbed the growth rate of the ridiculously high gen folks, but that's about the only thing that was solved. Furthermore, low gen folks are now crippled like high-gen, so they do not have the capacity to gain what others did over the high-XP days of the previous version/last five months.
Limitation by what a character can use is exactly the point though. Let's take the extreme: Sword and board cavalry. For all of his equipment, he'll probably have a total of 7 types of equipment, that's generation 22 before he can have absolutely every piece of gear heirloomed. After generation 22, you no longer get any benefits for retiring, what you get is versatility in ones choice of gear, as once you hit gen 25, even though you have another masterwork, you're sure as hell not going to be using any more than you did at gen 22.
While you may call it curbing the growth rate, even if they reset the database, the "no-lifers" are still going to have, four months(how long it's been since .20 came out) from now, nearly every bit of the advantage as they do currently. What I mean is this: Assuming everyone plays just as much as they do now, 4 months from now there will be fewer heirlooms throughout all of crpg than there are now. This is possibly a good thing, sure (I'd argue the best thing to do currently is make heirlooms easier for everyone, but that's another thread). But because of the near linear leveling speed, the people that were gen 3-7 are going to find themselves with quite a few heirlooms less. Meanwhile the people who are currently gen 20+, are going to be taking into battle the same exact amount of loomed gear as they are now. Which means that the people this system is trying to "nerf" isn't going to affect them on the battlefield, but it's going to put heirlooms in fewer casual player's hands.
I wish we could get someone to put up a graph of time played:heirlooms used for both the old system and new system with only a 1x multiplier.
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I wish we could get someone to put up a graph of time played:heirlooms used for both the old system and new system with only a 1x multiplier.
Here you go. First graph represents the number of ticks you've got to get to advance from lvl 1 to lvl 31 for generations 1-16, second one converts it to hours of x1 multiplier.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
ED:Ok, i've put the cap point on the wrong generation, but that doesn't change the general trend of those two plots.
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The people who were benefiting most from 10% XP bonus weren't people with "no life" who resemble the bald snack munching guy from that Warcraft episode of South Park but the people who beat the Hell out of the retirement system before the previous patch, when you could retire at level 15 every week. That's the problem with 10%; it favours an old established elite who were around back then and who got to generation 10 or 20 when it was still easy to do it.
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2) Heirlooms are given out through events such as tournaments or strategus.
I love the idea of getting special items from tournaments, having played a game that did this, but I have a feeling that if such a thing were ever (it doesn't sound like something that the hoi polloi cRPG players would like) implemented, the tournaments would take place on a EU server. And so, as an American, I reject that idea!
On the subject of wipes, though...the fact that wipes hurt all and only benefit ongoing grinders should be emphasized and drilled into every player.
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Why don't we just remove levels from cRPG? I mean, seriously, what's their purpose?
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Why don't we just remove levels from cRPG? I mean, seriously, what's their purpose?
LOL.
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The people who were benefiting most from 10% XP bonus weren't people with "no life" who resemble the bald snack munching guy from that Warcraft episode of South Park but the people who beat the Hell out of the retirement system before the previous patch, when you could retire at level 15 every week. That's the problem with 10%; it favours an old established elite who were around back then and who got to generation 10 or 20 when it was still easy to do it.
But the people who were already a high gen in the past already have the heirloomed items they were going for; the benefit beyond that is the ability to experiment with builds, something that doesn't affect the battle server at all but rather player enjoyment and variety.
Now all that happened is everyone has to spend more time to reach level 31 and retire. The people previously established with high generations are only hurt by the xp because they have plenty of heirlooms. It's the people who have low gens who are ultimately hurt the most because they aren't able to level up as quickly from retirements and heirloom their basic equipment now.
Really if people wanted to make things more 'even' or whatever they should be in favor of a higher xp bonus per retire, because that will bring them up to 'heirloom par' quicker.
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My opinion is that heirlooms are so nerfed now other than maybe ranged looms that they make little to no difference in the game. That extra 1 speed and 4 damage is not going to transform a bad player into a good player. Rhade would probably tear your head off with a staff even if you have a masterworked danish. The xp thing I'm a little sad about since it increases times between respecs and time I can play around with builds. With the heirloom nerf which I think was well deserved the difference between the gen 10 guys and the gen 1 guys are now minimal. Whoever can block and has better footwork will win. I don't have a single loomed weapon and I do fine on maps. I'm sure most of the high gen people do as well. Fact is learn to block and learn to move and it doesn't heirlooms don't matter.
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My opinion is that heirlooms are so nerfed now other than maybe ranged looms that they make little to no difference in the game. That extra 1 speed and 4 damage is not going to transform a bad player into a good player. Rhade would probably tear your head off with a staff even if you have a masterworked danish. The xp thing I'm a little sad about since it increases times between respecs and time I can play around with builds. With the heirloom nerf which I think was well deserved the difference between the gen 10 guys and the gen 1 guys are now minimal. Whoever can block and has better footwork will win. I don't have a single loomed weapon and I do fine on maps. I'm sure most of the high gen people do as well. Fact is learn to block and learn to move and it doesn't heirlooms don't matter.
+1.... except that most heirlooms only give 1 speed and 2 dmg for Masterwork
it is ridiculous imo
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Ya im against a wipe now :D
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My opinion is that heirlooms are so nerfed now other than maybe ranged looms that they make little to no difference in the game. That extra 1 speed and 4 damage is not going to transform a bad player into a good player. Rhade would probably tear your head off with a staff even if you have a masterworked danish. The xp thing I'm a little sad about since it increases times between respecs and time I can play around with builds. With the heirloom nerf which I think was well deserved the difference between the gen 10 guys and the gen 1 guys are now minimal. Whoever can block and has better footwork will win. I don't have a single loomed weapon and I do fine on maps. I'm sure most of the high gen people do as well. Fact is learn to block and learn to move and it doesn't heirlooms don't matter.
I'm not quite sure what the point of the heirloom nerf was, as the same people still top the boards in every game mode. For the most part, the only significant difference I can think of was weight. Ultimately, speed and damage matter less than weight for a fight between players who aren't new to the game.
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I'm not quite sure what the point of the heirloom nerf was, as the same people still top the boards in every game mode. For the most part, the only significant difference I can think of was weight. Ultimately, speed and damage matter less than weight for a fight between players who aren't new to the game.
Well now that they've removed crushthrough from everything except mauls and mallets weight matters alot less in the game. Yes you get some polearm stun but the nerf was needed. The difference between a mw bec and a normal was 6 pierce and 2 speed. Thats actually a good 20% better than the original which matters because its just enough to one shot most people with high power strike. Its the masterworks that get you from the 2 shot to 1 shot threshold that make a huge difference in the game.
I am actually enjoying the game a whole lot more now that the balancing has kicked in. Yes my build is gimped with 54 points in throwing and 10 PT which I can't even use but I'm having more fun than ever actually running around without eating lances and axes left and right.
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I think that exponential growth is a silly way to have an leveling system, especially one that gives heirlooms that people aspire to own. Sure this change may hurt me and my clan in that we are all gen 1, or only just gen 2, so we will have a harder time getting decked out in heirloomed items but I would much rather have that if it means a more balanced mod.
I can understand high gen people wanting the old system so they can change play styles to keep things interesting but I don't agree that this is an argument to keep a system that breaks other things. Instead why not have a new system that allows you to respec without having to level up from 1 again. For instance they could change it so you can retire at 31 but chose not to get an heirloomed item and be dropped to level 30 as well as having your stats and skills reset, or you could pay 20k for a respec, ect. This would also allow low gen people the luxury of changing their specs more easily too.
Basically I think changing spec and gaining heirlooms should be seperated because new heirlooms should be hard to get at any gen whereas respecs shouldn't necessarily be as hard to achieve.
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... That's the problem with 10%; it favours an old established elite who were around back then and who got to generation 10 or 20 when it was still easy to do it ...
ehm sir... should i remind you something. the old retirement system also required a sum of gold to do the retirement. was:
- 5000 gold for gen 2
- 10000 gold for gen 3
- 15000 gold for gen 4
- 20000 gold for gen 5
- 25000 gold for gen 6
- 30000 gold for gen 7
- 35000 gold for gen 8
- 40000 gold for gen 9
- 45000 gold for gen 10
- 50000 gold for gen 11
- 55000 gold for gen 12
- 60000 gold for gen 13
- 65000 gold for gen 14
- 70000 gold for gen 15
- 75000 gold for gen 16
- 80000 gold for gen 17
- 85000 gold for gen 18
- 90000 gold for gen 19
- 95000 gold for gen 20
so... with the old patch, just tell me. how you can earn say 75k in a week to retire from gen 15 to 16? then how can you do 95k gold in a week to retire from gen19 to 20?
come on.. if you don't know or if you haven't played the previous patch, just sit.
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On the subject of wipes, though...the fact that wipes hurt all and only benefit ongoing grinders should be emphasized and drilled into every player.
"Only benefit ongoing grinders" Yes. YES! If you want to make a game THIS is what you want.
If the major problem is high-gen people sucking like bloated vampires on an ever-increasing and very real bonus that came back to bite you worse than you ever imagined then deal with those people (well, chars, nothing personal :)).
I would sugest, in my draconian way, to reset all chars over gen 5 to 5 and make all heirlooms x1. The screams of outrage would secretly please me.
A mod requires players. New players. With things being as they are you discourage that. This is the most horrible mistake you can make make as a games-developer. And in this I sugest that at least some of the people involved in creating this mod has SOME ambition where all this might lead them.
An old saying goes: "Build it and they will come".Though far from the solution to anyones worries the words are true enough.
A steady fanbase is a precious thing but anything that gets in the way of new blood is something that should be regarded as the cancerous parasite that it is. Personally I have 4 friends who have tried out, and still plays, this mod in the last 2 months.
And they are not worried about changes at all, but the reward for grinding a low-gen is too low, far too low, compared to other rpg's(mmo or otherwise) and they will, as many will, play something something more rewarding when the grind gets old and before any noticable difference.
Cut out that which offends and the experience is better for it.
And if the game you make is more enjoyable in the fields, on the battlements and in the crowded corridors then the old timers will return, for isnt a good game why they where here to begin with?
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The difference between a mw bec and a normal was 6 pierce and 2 speed. Thats actually a good 20% better than the original which matters because its just enough to one shot most people with high power strike. Its the masterworks that get you from the 2 shot to 1 shot threshold that make a huge difference in the game.
that's why a tincan 1hit weapon with simply too high speed should be nerfd. with a 27/12 or 24/15 build you can 1hit most armored foes... and with 95 speed + NOT UNBALANCED weapon, you're faster and block better than any other pierce/blunt/antiarmor weapon.
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I love the idea of getting special items from tournaments, having played a game that did this, but I have a feeling that if such a thing were ever (it doesn't sound like something that the hoi polloi cRPG players would like) implemented, the tournaments would take place on a EU server. And so, as an American, I reject that idea!
Maybe it's because I don't have a clan and haven't bothered with tournaments at all really, but why would any events/tournaments need to be on EU? Why couldn't the Dev team set the rules for the different tournaments/events and we only have to implement them. Better yet, they could make it part of a game mode, so Admins wouldn't even have to oversee the tournaments, aside for minor things.
On the subject of wipes, though...the fact that wipes hurt all and only benefit ongoing grinders should be emphasized and drilled into every player.
Indeed, I've seen so many complaints from new players/casual players about the old system, that think that this new system will give them what they want. Sadly though, the reality is, it won't. Worse still, is the fact that even though I've stated this in several different threads, I'm not sure it's caught on to that many people.
I think that exponential growth is a silly way to have an leveling system, especially one that gives heirlooms that people aspire to own. Sure this change may hurt me and my clan in that we are all gen 1, or only just gen 2, so we will have a harder time getting decked out in heirloomed items but I would much rather have that if it means a more balanced mod.
I can understand high gen people wanting the old system so they can change play styles to keep things interesting but I don't agree that this is an argument to keep a system that breaks other things. Instead why not have a new system that allows you to respec without having to level up from 1 again. For instance they could change it so you can retire at 31 but chose not to get an heirloomed item and be dropped to level 30 as well as having your stats and skills reset, or you could pay 20k for a respec, ect. This would also allow low gen people the luxury of changing their specs more easily too.
Basically I think changing spec and gaining heirlooms should be seperated because new heirlooms should be hard to get at any gen whereas respecs shouldn't necessarily be as hard to achieve.
I like the overall theme of this post, especially the separation of heirlooms and respecs.
But, with the current nerf to masterworks, I honestly don't believe that it is a balance issue anymore, at least not that would be worth noting in this thread.
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But, with the current nerf to masterworks, I honestly don't believe that it is a balance issue anymore, at least not that would be worth noting in this thread.
I don't mean balanced in that way but balanced as a system. As you say player skill dominates the small advantage that heirlooms give. I just like the heirloom system as it gives me nice goals to work toward which in turn will give me another reason to play the game outside of Strategus.
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Sorry for not reading everything but that part really made laugh :
Electric circuits, wildlife populations, anything that gets bigger at an increasing rate with nothing to keep it in check is dangerous.
WTF man ? Electric circuits are dangerous ? :lol:
On the subject, I will continue to say that we need more limits to retirement NOT linked with xp, and keep a big xp bonus. Before, we had a gold cost (5k*your current gen), a time cost (allways 1 week) and a level limit (14+your current gen). Things were really going very peacefully with retirement, and it gave real bonuses. People were struggling to retire and still they were going faster in levels inbetween retirements, thus everybody was satisfied (except for the OP wpf bonus thingy, but that is not the point) and it wasn't possible to abuse the retirement system like it is now (very severely with 10% xp bonus per gen). Furthermore, there was a real tradeoff between retiring and leveling. Now there's no option.
In short, 10% more xp should mean 10% faster retirement.