cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Kulin_ban on January 08, 2013, 10:45:27 pm

Title: HACKED
Post by: Kulin_ban on January 08, 2013, 10:45:27 pm
HACKED
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Banok on January 08, 2013, 10:49:38 pm
meh games are more fun when they are new. imo the funnest/best way to learn is to just play! may not be the quickest. also peasant server is quite awesome, I think new players have it alot easier than before.

remember when there was only battle mode and you couldn't even interrupt guys in heavy armour?  :o
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Prpavi on January 08, 2013, 10:50:25 pm
This game itself has a steap learning curve and this mod especially.

Hell i dont know a person who dodnt waste couple of wpf or skill poits in something random.  :mrgreen:

I am willing to help to make a tutorial/wiki page whatever for new playrs.

I agree this game and mod are really hard to comprehend.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Osiris on January 08, 2013, 10:51:11 pm
well what can i say... There is a massive beginers section of the forum for a reason. don't want to read it? well have fun trying to learn :D
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: _GTX_ on January 08, 2013, 10:56:39 pm
Quote from: Kulin_ban on January 08, 2013, 10:45:27 pm
(click to show/hide)

Gj helping him out to both of u, rly nice of u 2 :).

And sadly the only way is to read the forum, since thats where u can get help from clans and guides. People generally do not help new players, they just ignore them. I always try and help as much as i can, which is why im in peasants united.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Osiris on January 08, 2013, 10:57:13 pm
if you download a mod which is based on skills and attributes and don't even bother to read up on what they do then rage when you do it wrong.... well your just an idiot
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Teeth on January 08, 2013, 11:01:12 pm
Put Tears guide on the website somewhere during the installation or account creating process. There is a lot to know and most of it is in there.

Also, remove looms.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 08, 2013, 11:03:18 pm
There's a huge learning curve, and you really realize it when someone who's played Warband a lot comes to cRPG for the first time.  There's a lot of nuances to explain. 
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: MrShine on January 08, 2013, 11:04:02 pm
Step 1 is realizing that you are a peasant.  You are not going to be owning anyone as a weakling with no armor, a cleaver, and some rocks.

Once you get past that part, and are willing to be humbled while you learn the ins and outs of the game, then the forums & training can begin.

I think one of the reasons the community is small is because most people can't get past step 1.  STF alts have come a long way towards giving people a taste of what they might be able to do, but a lot of people lack the patience to learn the combat system & it's unique mouse attack/block system.  There is a lot of hidden knowledge in this game yes, but there's a lot that's right there for the taking but people aren't willing to look/ask.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Falka on January 08, 2013, 11:09:51 pm
Game is harsh for newplayers, true, but many of them just don't think. Making build with 3 points in every possible skill from archery through throwing till riding just doesn't make sense and you don't need guide to know it. Wearing plate with bow and shield also doesn't look like good idea, especially that they can see archers on the server who don't use shields and dont wear plate.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Grumbs on January 08, 2013, 11:10:20 pm
Most people never visit a forum and I don't think they should be expected to.

The game really needs a RPG style Profession system, that lets a guy pre-plan his build from level 1 if he wants. There could be some pre-made builds that let you see the end result at lvl 30, and then you just put in the points where it says as you level up. The actual website where you tweak your character could give loads more relevant info to help players out.

I would even be tempted to disable the C menu then (unless you specifically enable it on the website), so people only go to the website and follow the build template on there.

This is probably beyond the scope of what Donkey crew might want to do with cRPG now though. Theres stuff we can do as a community though, like updating the wiki (and maybe then Donkey can integrated better into the main site). We can have newbie helpers like No_Rules is doing. Again Donkey could make that even easier for people by giving them a title when they join, or coloured text (maybe a newbie chat even like with I)

I like to see new names on the server, and hope eventually they will become vets. Its very often just the same names though, people who have played for years
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Cris on January 08, 2013, 11:10:33 pm
Dilemma: How much time are you willing to devote to helping others learn? After all it impacts on your fun time, which can be limited for many of us.


Solution to helping new players: Everyone takes the time to teach 1 or more new players on their game lifetime, if new players do that once they learn, everyone is helped.


Reality: Online communities are multilingual and made up by people who have lots of time to play, and does who don't. The latter will rarely want to help, as they have limited time to play - Fair point. Those who play a lot tend to be busy with team thing, or self-centered, or working towards a goal that requires all their time (hence on all the time); Only a small number of those who play a lot are willing to help out, and a good number of those get bored after teaching a few and stop.

The reality is that there will always be people who fall through the net, no matter how hard those willing to teach try to teach, especially in olde games, thus making this topic a never ending one. But being realistic, if you really wanna learn, there is always the helpful guy who wrote a guide or made a video, so hope is not lost for newbies, if they try a little :)
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: oprah_winfrey on January 08, 2013, 11:13:15 pm
cRPG is hell for everyone. That is why we play, because it isn't some cookie cutter game like the newest COD/whatever. cRPG is one of the games that people cannot escape from and always come back.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Dooz on January 08, 2013, 11:13:29 pm
It's definitely not an accessible game or community for newcomers. You have to be really into it independent of any other factors to get past all the shit your gonna eat for a good portion of your life on earth (if we mean a few months at least, you only live so many months!). It absolutely isn't and shouldn't be worth it for most casual gamers. Those who can escape the draw are the lucky ones. God I wish I never found this game. Help me. Help. Me.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: _GTX_ on January 08, 2013, 11:14:15 pm
Quote from: oprah_winfrey on January 08, 2013, 11:13:15 pm
cRPG is hell for everyone. That is why we play, because it isn't some cookie cutter game like the newest COD/whatever. cRPG is one of the games that people cannot escape from and always come back.

Idd, try having a bad team in rageball..... Worst thing ever... -.-. Oh..not what u were thinking about?
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Dooz on January 08, 2013, 11:16:41 pm
I can think of worse things. Malaria being one of them. And that's not even that bad compared to having your testicles sliced off with a rusty spoon.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: _GTX_ on January 08, 2013, 11:37:04 pm
Quote from: Dooz on January 08, 2013, 11:16:41 pm
I can think of worse things. Malaria being one of them. And that's not even that bad compared to having your testicles sliced off with a rusty spoon.
gg, u win.

Anyway back to topic prob. Since this seems to stop alot of the new players, even a few which might have stayed with a little bit of help.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Dooz on January 08, 2013, 11:39:21 pm
FUCK YES I WIN GO TO HELL NOOBS ALL YOU NOOBS CAN SUCK IT
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Gurnisson on January 08, 2013, 11:42:21 pm
(click to show/hide)

^
One of the best parts of this game, watching new players make sexy outfits. Don't need them to be kuyak clones straight away.

Anyway, linking a guide with the installation like Teeth suggested might be of good help.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Joseph Porta on January 08, 2013, 11:46:50 pm
Id like to add this certainly not mentioned before suggestion: remove looms
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Osiris on January 08, 2013, 11:49:04 pm
Give them the guide.we had  :twisted:

Stay near shiny man, try to die near a group, after 2 weeks buy sword :-D
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Belatu on January 09, 2013, 12:01:42 am
not all is the community. Tips ingame, menus with small explications, and lots of other stuff could be done to make it less obscure for new (and old casual) players
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Leshma on January 09, 2013, 12:05:10 am
Game mechanics has steep learning curve but imho hardest part is char building system which is explained only in Guides section on forums and many newbies don't visit forums until it's too late. For them it's trial and error because there is no example how effective build should look like.

They should put some predefined builds on site as hints where to put points.

Edit: Grumbs already suggested it, didn't notice before I wrote my post.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: wayyyyyne on January 09, 2013, 12:11:54 am
Quote from: Gurnisson on January 08, 2013, 11:42:21 pm
(click to show/hide)

^
One of the best parts of this game, watching new players make sexy outfits. Don't need them to be kuyak clones straight away.

Anyway, linking a guide with the installation like Teeth suggested might be of good help.

Is that a long espada I see? Classic. Now the only thing left is a short bow on this guy's back, that would certainly add to the picture.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: TurmoilTom on January 09, 2013, 12:18:49 am
I feel like the early difficulty is part of the appeal. Not only that, but I also find it unnecessary to have to teach things to the new guys. Going through my first gen without experienced players to show me the ropes and ending that gen as a 22/18 poorly built 1h shielder / twohander / polearm hybrid with horribly allocated weapon proficiencies taught me a lot. More than enough to fine-tune my build, get the timing of blocking and chambering down and trade on the marketplace (I had a +3 Bec de Corbin shortly after starting my 2nd gen).
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 09, 2013, 12:28:29 am
recognising new players is extremely easy: i join a server, look at the scoreboard, look at how the players look (analysis of both how they choose their armor and what their build is). I atleast find 1 new player each time and i pm them with help.

this is what i would like to ask if people see a new player:
1) help him (or not if you are too lazy)
2) write down his name and pm it to me/post it on the Peasants United thread.
You can also direct them to this thread by telling them to look for the sticky called 'Peasants United' in the faction halls section of this forum.

it would be really cool if people would help us find the new players, our financials are going well again and our armoury is filled since i cleaned it up. We just need advertisement and i hope we get the official announcement on c-rpg.net soon!
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on January 09, 2013, 12:30:52 am
I have to agree. A friend of mine played this and he went completely bonkerz with his build. Had points all over the place. I did help him out of it, though, when we started playing together.

Personally. When I first started playing I just put everything in 2h and the asked someone for a good build for speed. He recommended 15/24. I ran with that 'til I stopped retiring. Now I'm 20/24.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Belatu on January 09, 2013, 12:40:45 am
Prebuild optional arquetipes should be implemented, so charachters grow up without  choosing points onyl when unlocking it ingame or in the webpage  http://forum.meleegaming.com/Smileys/default/icon_neutral.gif :D
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: brockssn on January 09, 2013, 01:25:50 am
Oh man, I've had trouble keeping players here even after teaching the newbies how to play and what to get. Its exactly what you wrote, its just too much and too hard for them to get started, players need to be viable early on.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Legs on January 09, 2013, 01:30:46 am
I think that the challenge is part of the appeal for some people. Sure you start out as a helpless peasant, but that only makes it more satisfying when you finally start to get better equipment and more levels. I remember when I was a peasant I'd just flail wildly and be lucky to block one attack. I looked for other peasants to fight and ran like hell from everyone else, especially the guys in plate armor and winged great helms. They were terrifying to me, but at the same time I knew that if they could do it I could too. That's a big part of what motivated me to practice and learn and get better so that I could be one of those super awesome badass knights some day.

There's a lot of trial and error for new players while they figure out what kinds of skills and equipment that they prefer to use. The amount of variety can be daunting, which is why so many new players waste gold and experience on things they find out they don't even like. At the same time once you begin to get a handle on how to make a proper build and gear set and become that much more effective, it's very rewarding. You find that you're no longer helpless; you can take on some of those dangerous enemies and actually win!

cRPG is difficult, but I think that it's better that way. Too many games avoid challenging their players because they don't want to scare away the casual babies and they end up being worse for it. The community is overall very helpful, usually giving good advice when people ask and even giving away gold and items to help them get started. The peasant clan was a great idea, and I think that if the developers could add something like NPC trainers on the duel servers or a FAQ on the website to give out basic information new players would be very well off.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Rumblood on January 09, 2013, 01:38:49 am
Quote from: Joseph_Porta on January 08, 2013, 11:46:50 pm
Id like to add this certainly not mentioned before suggestion: remove looms

Sure! And re-implement infinite leveling and skill progression like I had to go up against as a new player. Oh yes, re-implement area experience gain so that only players with survivability would get experience when the scrum moved away from your dead newbie corpse so that you really had no chance of ever catching up to veterans! Watching twenty level 25 players unable to take down a single veteran even in a swarm was sooooooo much easier than newbies have it today for sure!

/sarcasm

And yet somehow the mod survived.  :idea: Just make the New Players guide pop up when they login to the website and register their first character with a "don't show this again" checkbox next to it. They may not find the forums, but they have to login to the website.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: ToniTcc on January 09, 2013, 03:26:04 am
Well I can still remember my first time in Crpg. Can't even remember how I found this mod, but it happened anyway. Came about a year ago, I have known mount&blade warband since it was released back 2006? Before I found Crpg I played mount&blade with fire and sword for about 3 months. But the battle mechanism is pretty much different from Crpg's and you couldn't fight in melee so often.

Anyway, when I started a year ago it was all awesome, I'm not a stupid player and usually check for all tips and everything. Didn't do it this time. I made an account, joined a game and started playing. First two weeks went with 21/12 build with skills in riding, archery, 2h, 1h and shield. I got frustrated because I couldn't kill anyone. So I checked the forums for good advices and also found them.
Today I think that I'm better than average player in Crpg community, still can't beat those freaks, who chamber or kick me to death, but I'm still happy with mah skills.


Back to topic. It is fun to help new players, especially since I'm pretty new myself, but still know all the basics already. The problem is that new players are too shy to ask for help. I would gladly help any new player who would just ask for it.
Crpg got one of the best communities what I have ever seen in any game. I'm sure that more players would join, if they knew how helpful, awesome and great place this is. Problem with new games is that so rarely anyone is ready to help you.
I have played WoW, I have asked for help, but only answer what I usually get from there is "use the fucking wow wiki, you noob". Yea wow wiki is full on info, but how can a noob find that info??
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Tom Cruise on January 09, 2013, 06:03:33 am
http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner's-help-and-guides/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner's-help-and-guides/)
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 09, 2013, 06:08:12 am
Quote from: mmason94 on January 09, 2013, 06:03:33 am
http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner's-help-and-guides/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner's-help-and-guides/)
dude, follow the post please. we already agreed that new players dont find their way to the forums without help
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Tindel on January 09, 2013, 06:29:34 am
Just direct them to the forums, there is a beginner forum that has all the information anyone could need.

If they dont have the will to learn on their own, and expect to be coddled through the whole process.......fuck them.

Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Elindor on January 09, 2013, 07:24:04 am
Kulin....

I admit I havent read the whole thread--- but I kinda agree with your OP.

Basically there are 3 factors that, when combined, could crush a new player before they get a chance to get addicted like we all are:
1 - lack of experience with Warband combat
2 - lack of experience with cRPG mechanics and builds
3 - the fact that you start out at lvl 1

The first 2 are enough, the 3rd can (i think) make it difficult for new players to see the light at the end of the tunnel - not only might they be new to M&B combat AND crpg mechanics, but they are also lvl 1 which even GOOD experienced players struggle to do much at lvl 1.

Now...of course the levels go fast etc....and the struggle is part of the fun...but maybe we present new players with a set of options when they first create their account....

Possible Options menu presented to new accounts:

Quote
"Are you new to manual attacking and blocking combat?  If so, we suggest you start with a "Skip the Fun" character, and go through our simple tutorial."

[If no, then....]

"Being new to cRPG mechanics and builds, we suggest you start with a "Skip the Fun" character."

[If no, then....]

[start them with level 1 character]

With a skip the fun character at lvl 30, even someone who is just learning the mechanics could eek out a kill or two, and thus start the addiction  :twisted:
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 09, 2013, 07:35:39 am
When people ask questions in the battle or siege servers, I try to keep up with them and answer. If they have a ton of questions I tell them to go to the forums via the flag on their character account page, and read up on guides. If they care that much and want to know the answers to all those questions, they can read. Or watch good players after they die in battle. That's how I learned and I encourage new players to be observant and ask when something doesn't make sense.

Remember when peasants used to hide in a shed and pray that a plate-god didn't roll in and skewer them all? That was my first CRPG experience, and I LOVED it. Sure, I was slaughtered again and again, but seeing those knights tear up a pile of peasants got me excited. One day, I could be That Guy....
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Vibe on January 09, 2013, 08:36:29 am
>> forums <<
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: rufio on January 09, 2013, 08:59:21 am
build a tutorial option into the patcher, with a skill pyramid: short youtube tutorials covering the basic knowhows to protips.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Joseph Porta on January 09, 2013, 09:38:46 am
the first month is really just learning to control the directions. about builds and stuff - forums helped me alot there, I made threads, asked questions etc. new players shhould do that too.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Elmuri on January 09, 2013, 09:56:21 am
Maybe there could be some info-section in the opening menu, which would explain what each attribute ans skill do and such basic info.

I was a classic samurai with a shield and a bow myself in my first gen, didnt know about forums and something like that would have been very helpfull, though the website explains nowadays at least something. Old ugly one didn't have much info as far as I remember.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Molly on January 09, 2013, 10:23:29 am
I stumbled upon this forum rather early and checked it. I remember actually finding some newby-threads but I was too lazy to read those walls of text...  :mrgreen:

2nd day on the server and I already started talking to Gnjus by asking something about his crossbow and he actually became some kind of mentor to me  :D

Yes, Gnjus... believe it or not, he taught me the basics by letting me follow around and asking stupid questions. Guess that's where my loyalty comes from  :oops:
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Duckzern on January 09, 2013, 10:57:31 am
I had no idea what the hell I was doing when I started playing, and when I started out the last thing I wanted to do was reading a wall of text, in a new mod that I might not even like.

In my opinion we should have some sort of Video tutorial, that the browser will redirect to after you're done signing up.

Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 09, 2013, 10:59:42 am
i actually never searched for the forum, i have used it ALOT though. i always searched in google things like eg: 'crpg ironflesh cav' if i wanted to know what people thought about ironflesh on horseback. I also found all my (back than crappy) builds there
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: buba on January 09, 2013, 05:50:36 pm
Played native quite alot, learned the basics.

Then joined a clan because it was fun, learned everything i wanted to know.

Still learning even now tho, its what makes it more fun for me any ways.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Kafein on January 09, 2013, 05:59:29 pm
Somehow I don't remember making a completely shit build with my first char. I had played Native sp and mp a lot, and nobody had a minmax build back then anyway. Also, learning cRPG was all about following the person with the highest armor value  :D
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Tibe on January 09, 2013, 06:07:49 pm
Same, played loads, learned some things in multi, learned how to make a halfdescent build from SP.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Tomeusz on January 09, 2013, 06:39:22 pm
It isnt hell. This is just one piece of a bugged, imbalanced mod;). Range overpower melee and if you have not some decent builds you are screwd. Also game (Warband) has "joke" hit detection which makes it stupid to play. No wonder there is twice less players now than it was half year ago. Many people raging about With fire and Sword, but this game is twice more realistic than Warband or crpg mod. Crpg mod is based on expploits, not realistic fighting.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Grumbs on January 09, 2013, 06:42:48 pm
Quote from: Tomeusz on January 09, 2013, 06:39:22 pm
Range overeat melee

Part of the problem atm is everyone switched to the top tier bows. They got buffs and PD affects WPF less than before, so people take more PD. With the extra weight from bows/arrows people are probably not so concerned with making kiting builds, they go for damage so they kill before they even need to kite

Its getting pretty dull tbh
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Tomeusz on January 09, 2013, 06:48:02 pm
Quote from: Grumbs on January 09, 2013, 06:42:48 pm
Part of the problem atm is everyone switched to the top tier bows. They got buffs and PD affects WPF less than before, so people take more PD. With the extra weight from bows/arrows people are probably not so concerned with making kiting builds, they go for damage so they kill before they even need to kite

Its getting pretty dull tbh

Yeah, not to mention throwers killing cav and you with single throw while i have Ironflesh 6, but when i ride with 30km/h, hitting with my spear target dont die with PS 5. Very realistic. Alson hit detection is so weird that regular aiming makes no sense at all.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on January 09, 2013, 07:00:53 pm
Quote from: Tomeusz on January 09, 2013, 06:39:22 pm
It isnt hell. This is just one piece of a bugged, imbalanced mod;). Range overpower melee and if you have not some decent builds you are screwd. Also game (Warband) has "joke" hit detection which makes it stupid to play. No wonder there is twice less players now than it was half year ago. Many people raging about With fire and Sword, but this game is twice more realistic than Warband or crpg mod. Crpg mod is based on expploits, not realistic fighting.

Your post has lead me to believe that your title is probably pretty accurate.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Adamar on January 09, 2013, 07:17:53 pm
Although I know this game is awful for new people, I dont think aditional hand-holding is required if people already played native.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Tibe on January 09, 2013, 07:40:29 pm
Quote from: Tomeusz on January 09, 2013, 06:39:22 pm
It isnt hell. This is just one piece of a bugged, imbalanced mod;). Range overpower melee and if you have not some decent builds you are screwd. Also game (Warband) has "joke" hit detection which makes it stupid to play. No wonder there is twice less players now than it was half year ago. Many people raging about With fire and Sword, but this game is twice more realistic than Warband or crpg mod. Crpg mod is based on expploits, not realistic fighting.

WTF are you yapping about. Crpg is about as balanced as this game can overall possibly get. And crpg ofcourse isnt about realistic fighting, its about fun(supposedly was supposed to be). Realism is not fun. And Warband currently might even have one of the best hit detections current games have to offer. This has been said by most gamers. Hitboxes are one thing this game has definately gotten right.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Turboflex on January 09, 2013, 07:48:21 pm
I think overall people here are pretty helpful to newbs, the issue is that M&B is already one of the deepest action games out there, and c-rpg adds another layer of complexity. Thousands of players have been able to get past noob stages of this game out but you can't expect it of everyone especially if the guy can't figure out how to get on the beginners help forum section where people are pretty willing to reply to even silly newb questions in a polite and informative way. Some people just aren't cut out for this game which in many ways is a pretty expert level game, and they should just stick to CoD and World of Warcraft if they aren't able to accept more challenge.

Not trying to sound like some arrogant elitest here, but it's just a fact that this is a difficult game compared to a lot of others and plenty of people just can't handle it no matter how much you try and help them out.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Turboflex on January 09, 2013, 07:51:36 pm
Quote from: Duckzern on January 09, 2013, 10:57:31 am
I had no idea what the hell I was doing when I started playing, and when I started out the last thing I wanted to do was reading a wall of text, in a new mod that I might not even like.

In my opinion we should have some sort of Video tutorial, that the browser will redirect to after you're done signing up.

You don't have to read a wall of text just go to beginner forum and make a thread like  "I'm new help me do a sword + xbow character" and you should get some decent responses that are not essays.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Torben on January 09, 2013, 07:56:17 pm
the day i figuered out that blocking down deflects thrust attacks was so great... that was a few months into the crpg mod though ^^
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Riddaren on January 09, 2013, 08:05:16 pm
I don't think cRPG is a hell for new players. I think it's a very fun and challenging experience for most new players.
Remember, this is not a mainstream game.

Those who play Warband are relatively experienced players looking for more than just good graphics.
The problem is the promotion of the game itself. It's very unpopular even though it's a very good game.

Copies sold during 2012: 4,539

Compared to a "nice looking" game like Farcry 3 (pc):
393,240 (released 1 dec 2012)

See the problem?
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Leshma on January 09, 2013, 08:22:32 pm
I don't understand the logic behind: "It was hard for us, should be the same for them."
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on January 09, 2013, 08:37:13 pm
Quote from: Riddaren on January 09, 2013, 08:05:16 pm
Copies sold during 2012: 4,539

Compared to a "nice looking" game like Farcry 3 (pc):
393,240 (released 1 dec 2012)

See the problem?

The problem is that M&B wasn't released during 2012?
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Thomek on January 09, 2013, 08:39:26 pm
I thought I'd make a poster in stead of raging in the forums.

Would be nice if someone put more time and thought into it than me though.. I think it covers the most severe mistakes while also luring new players into the forums. (If anyone wants to work on it PM me and I link the psd)

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I also suggest adding a little "Ad" for the forums on the website and server message. Could be like this:

--------------------------------------------------
Not getting kills?
Learn the secrets of cRPG reading the forums!
http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner's-help-and-guides/ (http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner's-help-and-guides/)
--------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Grumbs on January 09, 2013, 08:50:18 pm
Good initiative. I would make some mention of lvl 30, so people know where they're aiming for. Maybe there could be some suggestions like 21,18 Balanced build (lvl 30, 7 IF, 7 PS, 6 Ath, 3 WM, full WPF in 2 hand or polearm..off the top of my head might need to check that). Also, total gold of betwen 15-30k for reasonable gear while still making money.

We could all put it in spoiler tags in our sigs
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Thomek on January 09, 2013, 08:51:28 pm
Yeah.. just wanted to shave off the WORST and what I imagine are the most common stupid mistakes.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Teeth on January 09, 2013, 08:54:16 pm
The beauty about being a new player in cRPG is that you spend so much time being death, waiting for respawn that you can easily read a beginners guide in that time.

I remember when I started in december 2010 I followed the beginners guide religiously. Get shield skill, hold up your shield, find a shiny guy, follow him. Get a polearm like a pitchfork, help your shiny guy by poking at baddies. Good times, good times. I don't know, for me it just makes sense to go on the forums and read guides when I get into a new, complex looking game.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Penitent on January 09, 2013, 08:56:49 pm
Being hard for new players is not a problem.  Actually, its what attracted me to this game in the first place.  I was told there would be a learning curve, and I wanted to tackle the challenge in order to play such a cool looking game.  If it was easy to start, it wouldn't have been as fun to learn.

I'm still learning, still getting my ass handed to me regularly even two years later.  Nothing wrong with that. :)
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on January 09, 2013, 10:55:36 pm
Quote from: Turboflex on January 09, 2013, 07:51:36 pm
You don't have to read a wall of text just go to beginner forum and make a thread like  "I'm new help me do a sword + xbow character" and you should get some decent responses that are not essays.

Well, to be fair, lots of people don't notice such a thing or think of it. I know when I started playing, I didn't touch the forum before I was playing for like 4 months. And I never even played Native so I was running on no experience. I remember using a build with like 50 proficiency in every weapon class, and all kinds of shit I'd never use. (riding, horse archery, power throw) when all I used was a Bec because everyone in-game said it was best. The only reason I made it through that beginner stage is because I saw the godly plate wearing hero's and wanted to be that someday.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Haze_The_Hobo on January 10, 2013, 08:38:43 pm
Best way to learn is to beat your head to wall, either the wall cracks or your head does. There could be ad attached like Thomek's what u have to go through before you can access your character page for first time. Also there could be fast link on char page to "Beginner's Guide".
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Kafein on January 10, 2013, 08:49:22 pm
Quote from: Teeth on January 09, 2013, 08:54:16 pm
The beauty about being a new player in cRPG is that you spend so much time being death, waiting for respawn that you can easily read a beginners guide in that time.

I remember when I started in december 2010 I followed the beginners guide religiously. Get shield skill, hold up your shield, find a shiny guy, follow him. Get a polearm like a pitchfork, help your shiny guy by poking at baddies. Good times, good times. I don't know, for me it just makes sense to go on the forums and read guides when I get into a new, complex looking game.

I must say cRPG looked a lot more rough around the edges at the time, which I think pushed many of the beginners to be more active when learning. Or it's just that it repelled all those that didn't wished to go through the beginner tutorials.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Kato on January 11, 2013, 12:46:51 am
Quote from: Riddaren on January 09, 2013, 08:05:16 pm
The problem is the promotion of the game itself. It's very unpopular even though it's a very good game.

Copies sold during 2012: 4,539

Compared to a "nice looking" game like Farcry 3 (pc):
393,240 (released 1 dec 2012)

See the problem?


From where you got that numbers, i am quite sure that during napoleonic dlc were sold a LOT more warband copies.

Today 1 month after realese Farcry 3 on steam peak 7351 (great game btw)
Warband 5800 - 2y old game

Also i cant see how game is unpopular, that shitty teaser on M&B 2 was all over the place on most game websites instantly and they probably sold more copies on PC than most AAA games.(1.5-2M - whole m&b series, many sales helps ofc)

I tried multi in M&B with Fire and Sword for the first time yesterday,  thought thats long time dead, but i was shocked how many people was still playing. Was fun dueling there for a bit, 2h sword are gimmick and 1h sword + 2d polearm absolutely rule. :lol:
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Tomas on January 15, 2013, 06:09:38 pm
Here's a few things that are needed

1) A newbies IRC channel, linked on the forums and populated only by the helpful cRPG players.

2) Start all brand new players on previously unused cd:keys off at level 30 with a default shielder build plus a reasonable shield, 1H and armour.

I pick shielder because it is the easiest class to learn the basics of and offers protection from archers.  If a player wants to change class they just respec or they can get to level 31 and retire.  So what if we give them a 4m xp head start and 15k of equip.  Its nothing compared to what the average player has these days.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 15, 2013, 06:28:53 pm
Quote from: Tomas on January 15, 2013, 06:09:38 pm
Here's a few things that are needed

1) A newbies IRC channel, linked on the forums and populated only by the helpful cRPG players.
#peasantsunited
or
http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=peasantsunited

2) Start all brand new players on previously unused cd:keys off at level 30 with a default shielder build plus a reasonable shield, 1H and armour.

I pick shielder because it is the easiest class to learn the basics of and offers protection from archers.  If a player wants to change class they just respec or they can get to level 31 and retire.  So what if we give them a 4m xp head start and 15k of equip.  Its nothing compared to what the average player has these days.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Strudog on January 15, 2013, 06:30:40 pm
Quote from: Tomas on January 15, 2013, 06:09:38 pm
Here's a few things that are needed

2) Start all brand new players on previously unused cd:keys off at level 30 with a default shielder build plus a reasonable shield, 1H and armour.

I pick shielder because it is the easiest class to learn the basics of and offers protection from archers.  If a player wants to change class they just respec or they can get to level 31 and retire.  So what if we give them a 4m xp head start and 15k of equip.  Its nothing compared to what the average player has these days.

No because we have all had to go through it, deal with it, and just adds to more looms coming quickly to people
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Elindor on January 15, 2013, 07:04:46 pm
I think something like what Thomek has created could be presented to new players when they create an account on the crpg website.


Main concepts to help new players with would imho be these ::

- Suggestion to start with a STF character to better get a feel, try builds, and to not be at such a severe disadvantage (especially if new to manual combat)
- WHAT PREREQUISITES ARE NECESSARY TO USE WHAT WEAPONS/ARMOR (most commonly asked question from new players)
- A list of the most common/standard builds
- A brief explanation of how the base mechanics work (also the tooltips on the character page could be expounded upon)
- Some common suggestions such as : "Focus on 1 weapon skill (maybe 2 tops)", "Iron flesh is more effective when coupled with heavier armor", etc.
- A link to the beginner's section of the forums and a suggestion to go there and check things out.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Rumblood on January 15, 2013, 10:38:13 pm
Quote from: Leshma on January 09, 2013, 08:22:32 pm
I don't understand the logic behind: "It was hard for us, should be the same for them."

Give them more organized information so they don't fumble around with broken builds? - Yes.

Dumb down the game to make it easier? - No.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Kalam on January 15, 2013, 11:28:48 pm
To be honest, clans used to handle this, but clans don't seem to recruit like they used to in NA. Maybe the newer clans do. That's probably about it. Anyway, if we a saw noob - especially in duel - we'd teach them the ropes via text and then invite them over to voip if it seemed like the person wasn't a douche. There, they'd learn the rest. I'm sure it still happens, but I know I personally don't do it anymore- mostly because the game is more balanced than it's ever been before, so it's harder to tell who's a newbie and who's just bad. People seem to learn the game much more quickly than they used to, anyway, and I believe the regular playerbase understands everything about the game these days.

I've always thought that part of the fun of the game was the learning curve, and, when you finally got all the basics - recognizing individual fighting styles and tracing the lineage of teachers and dueling partners though that style alone.

 I don't really see that individual personality any more, so perhaps people don't feel the need to teach their own method of playing to every newbie who wants to learn. There's no branding, really. Everyone fights almost the same ways these days.

Quote from: Teeth on January 09, 2013, 08:54:16 pm
I remember when I started in december 2010 I followed the beginners guide religiously. Get shield skill, hold up your shield, find a shiny guy, follow him. Get a polearm like a pitchfork, help your shiny guy by poking at baddies. Good times, good times. I don't know, for me it just makes sense to go on the forums and read guides when I get into a new, complex looking game.

I think that might've been part of it, too. You picked a skilled/crutching player to hide behind and hoped he killed the bad guys for you. Every now and then you'd poke someone for him, and a relationship would begin in cyberspace. That person usually taught us the basics, I think, even in the form of insults like 'learn to read holds, noob'.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Firebrand on January 15, 2013, 11:40:27 pm
Player base never will grow up untill game won't be newb friendly. Professional games never ignore newbies. Game should be easy to learn without tonns of frustrations for new.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2013, 12:41:25 am
There are two new guys with us tonight on EU1 (6 vs 6). It's almost painful to watch them :lol:
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 17, 2013, 12:59:19 am
Quote from: Leshma on January 17, 2013, 12:41:25 am
There are two new guys with us tonight on EU1 (6 vs 6). It's almost painful to watch them :lol:
what are their names?
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: GuiKa on January 17, 2013, 01:00:56 am
Start at level 10-20 when making a new char instead of 1 would be good.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Dexxtaa on January 17, 2013, 01:03:43 am
Quote from: Rumblood on January 15, 2013, 10:38:13 pm
Give them more organized information so they don't fumble around with broken builds? - Yes.

Dumb down the game to make it easier? - No.

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Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Kafein on January 17, 2013, 01:23:32 am
Quote from: Leshma on January 17, 2013, 12:41:25 am
There are two new guys with us tonight on EU1 (6 vs 6). It's almost painful to watch them :lol:

nobody comments about only 12 people on EU_1
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Kato on January 17, 2013, 01:35:05 am
Quote from: Kafein on January 17, 2013, 01:23:32 am
nobody comments about only 12 people on EU_1

1:30 am - 21 people on eu1, 200 playing crpg, that was some temporary population drop probably
crpg is still alive :)
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Kafein on January 17, 2013, 01:37:35 am
Quote from: Kato on January 17, 2013, 01:35:05 am
1:30 am - 21 people on eu1, 200 playing crpg, that was same temporary population drop probably
crpg is still alive :)

battle is dead
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: no_rules_just_play on January 17, 2013, 01:50:24 am
Quote from: no_rules_just_play on January 17, 2013, 12:59:19 am
what are their names?
nvm zlisch scared them away... -.-
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Leshma on January 17, 2013, 01:53:42 am
Quote from: Kato on January 17, 2013, 01:35:05 am
1:30 am - 21 people on eu1, 200 playing crpg, that was same temporary population drop probably
crpg is still alive :)

Well 1:30 am is a bit late. But at 11:45 pm was like 13-14 (on average, at one point was 12 players as I said in previous post) players on EU1. That's something I've never seen before.
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Gurnisson on January 17, 2013, 02:50:33 am
Well, there was a big strat battle going from 23:51 that lasted quite long, and I know I wanted to do something else than play cRPG after a battle like that. Maybe other people thought the same and that's why the low numbers this evening/night :)
Title: Re: cRPG is hell for new players
Post by: Bjord on January 17, 2013, 04:27:21 am
The good thing about old cRPG is that everyone back then was new and everyone had fucked builds that weren't minmaxed. With all the nerfs and patches and game changing patches since, the old players really learned how to squeeze lemonade out of rocks by exploring every tiny thing that gives you an advantage. For you, this knowledge might seem effortless and common, but that's because you've developed so far in terms of skill level and repertoire that every move and feint have become an extension of your playstyle.

For a new player, all of this is going to be like climbing a waterfall. Unless they read up on the guides we have on Wiki and on the forums, but 90% of the time, new players jump into a server with their peasant and die and die and die and die and then they get fed up and leave the server.

So what to do about this? Nothing. Trial by fire is by far the best way to learn, and if you don't want to learn, cRPG isn't for you. However, if you ask for help, it will most likely come. Read wiki, read guides, ask questions and salvation will be in reaching distance.