cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Michael on January 06, 2011, 03:22:10 pm
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break chance: from 3% to 4%
and
repair dice roll: does not matter if you are on the winning or losing team.
Wtf................what happend to the idea you have to win more rounds to keep your gear?
Okay, heres my comment.
Some whiners who played crpg for 5 mins and got killed by a guy who played crpg for months cried and blamed it on the other guys better armor (what is horse shit because armor gimps you a lot in 1 vs 1) and you devs listened to them and came up with this upkeep shit that only hurts those players who actually work for their team and invest their gear.
I played naked for an hour or so and, thanks to my teammates, I earned 20.000. I killed one archer with a stone to his head, that was all usefull I did for my team in the whole time.
Then I was forced to join a bad bad team. I used my gear to try to bring those losers on the winning side.
In best case, I got the same gold like all those naked runners, hiders, teamattackers or, to be blunt, not very skilled people.
In the other case, I lost more than 15.000 in some rounds, while the naked guy lost nothing.
Is that fair? If you want to keep this mix of poker-lottery-shit then at least make it in a way that those who invest more earn more.
A staffman/ peasant/ bowman (no offense against those classes) doesnt risk much (almost nothing), so they dont need anything.
Knights who risk everything (I lost almost 70.000 gold in one map, I dont care, I have enough gold, and should I outrun of gold, I ll just spawn naked?) should at least get a bonus for their efforts if they win.
Next, whiners that can kill noone when they dont wear their full plate and spamaxe/ 2h cried and again, you devs listened to them and change the upkeep system to an even more stupid system.
When I survive a round, my horse and the rider still have full health, shield wasnt even damaged, there still is a chance that my stuff gets damaged? How? Why?
If you win, you actually should get more gold from the stuff you loot, not pay even more.
I like all the other changes and think its great but I dont like that every crybaby gets his will, no matter how stupid and selfish this guy is.
What is the motivation to win rounds now? The fucking multiplier? This only works when you play a long time without quitting once (or losing internet connection).
All in all, there are many positive things in this patch
+ xp gain faster
+ friendly fire horse charge
+ dont have to be close to the action to gain gold/ xp
+ upkeep system (people dont respect a thing they get easily/ for free)
+ real war elephants with throwing lances possible
+ archery a bit more realistic
etc
BUT you listen too much to the whiners, and thats not good. Good players/ people tend to suck it up/ deal with the situation, bad players cry more and more and more.
And you listen to them, and follow their orders..........................
You turn the upkeep system in a punishment for people that invest their expensive stuff, in lack of a better word, the people with the attitude of a winner, that always fight and even try to fight an enemy who is bigger than them, and privilege the lamers/ hiders/ leechers/ ...........
Not okay. Not okay at all.
Its even more grind than before, its awful. Its almost like native. Those of you who love to play with always the same few shitty native items go play native. Simple.
Those who invest more, should always get/ have more than those that do nothing (useful). Every society/ community works this way, otherwise it fails.
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i second this.
This hot fix takes away winning some winning incentives
AND NERF EXP GAIN :(
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i second this.
This hot fix takes away winning some winning incentives
AND NERF EXP GAIN :(
Gaining experience and gold 5x faster is a pretty good incentive I'd say.
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stfu !
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I agree to you Michael.
I couldn't have said it better. :)
This mod is one of the bests, so I'll play it even if there are changes I don't like. The problem is that the bad people always complain and cry and the devs doesn't notice the other ones. ^^
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I agree, I can't run around in my tin can all day long, this is obv imba chadz fix nao plz!!! If not I quit ur stupid mod!
/rage
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I want to keep trampling people with my panzerhorse then spawn naked when I'm on losing team
Translated it for you.
Anyway, your kind of "gameplay" is exactly what needs to die.
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the fact that you new_player_noob would ever suggest that you are more skilled than others amuses me to no extent.
You are not a new player but you most certainly are a noob.
I hope that you and your dumb submarine horse leave the game once and for all.
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the fact that you new_player_noob would ever suggest that you are more skilled than others amuses me to no extent.
You are not a new player but you most certainly are a noob.
I hope that you and your dumb submarine horse leave the game once and for all.
Comes from a guy who spams that 3m long Axe like crazy all day long, wearing a full plate.
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Quote by Michael:
I lost almost 70.000 gold in one map, I dont care, I have enough gold
Most of us do not have this amount of gold to simply throw away on one map. I should be able to have fun wearing my hard earned gear (I am not a tin can, simply wear medium armor with heirloomed weapons earned over several months), not be foreced to run around naked 2/3 of the time becuase I cannot maintain the upkeep of my gear. Fun is the key word, and upkeep simply needs to be removed.
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Wtf................what happend to the idea you have to win more rounds to keep your gear?
Isn't it the native system ?
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Fun is the key word
...and elephant-riding tincans ruin the fun for the rest of us.
So:
'chadz, devs, STOP LISTENING TO WHINERS', and leave the upkeep system. OK, fine, reduce it a bit if you must, but just ignore the guys who whine about not being able to use top-tier equipment all the time. Because that's not a bug that needs fixing. That's the fucking point.
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Translated it for you.
Anyway, your kind of "gameplay" is exactly what needs to die.
+1
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Poll statistics do not lie. If 50% of the playing population is uprising on forums for the upkeep system to be removed, this should not be ignored, nor is it whining since this reflects half the playing population that reads these forums, not a minority.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,314.0.html
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@Ishar: The same that "New_Player_Noob" said in the first post... :rolleyes:
@Casimir: The fact, that you are a templar doesn't mean that you are more skilled that other players... I've almost never seen you doing something funny or heroic. I know New_Player_Noob way better from the battlefield and if he is higher at the scoreboard than you, I would assume that he is better that you. :lol:
btw: If you want to find out who is the more skilled player go and play native, you will NEVER be able to compare this in cRPG ;)
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love this post dont become world of warcraft because you are afraid people wont like you
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I liked the old 20% upkeep system. It actually forced players to think and plan. Now its going to go back to the way it was before tincan wars :( I guess its time to put on the old black armour and get back to the wars.
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It's hard to please everyone. I totally agree I liked the expensive system too.
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Translated it for you.
Anyway, your kind of "gameplay" is exactly what needs to die.
the fact that you new_player_noob would ever suggest that you are more skilled than others amuses me to no extent.
You are not a new player but you most certainly are a noob.
I hope that you and your dumb submarine horse leave the game once and for all.
Pretty much sums it all up.
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I find this mod way easier than it was before. But because of that, it lost some of its charm. Personally, I don't give a f about casual players and I really don't see a point in making mod easier and less serious for everyone. There is already native which is like that. It's made for people who want to play for half an hour per day, who want instant gratification and can't suck up the fact that you have to invest few hours dying and hiding as a peasant.
Pre patch, I was never higher than lvl 31, never had more than 18 str or agi and never used best gear (I've used plate but not the best armors out there). I did good on battlefield and I especially cherished those moments when I managed to kill some 40+ lvl guy. This patch took away that pleasure away from me.
I personally think that crowd who likes this mod best aren't casual players. I also think that people who spent most time playing this mod aren't much interested in Strategus (browser based game). Since I find upkeep system to be important part of Strategus and not just a way to balance things (balance could have been achieved in so many different ways) I must say I'm against upkeep in any form. I like grind, hate me for it but as soon as someone else make mod like crpg used to be I'll switch to that mod. I'm pretty sure that most players like full servers (which this patch doesn't encourage anymore), total mayhem on battlefield, op lvl 40+ black armor noobs and even op archers. Very few players are interested in Total War wannabe which seems this mod is bound to become.
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I like grind
WTF is with gamers nowadays. Games used to be all about skill, where someone that jumped in on day 1 who was a better gamer could mop the floor with the perma-nub that had been flailing his way through a game for 3 months.
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WTF is with gamers nowadays. Games used to be all about skill, where someone that jumped in on day 1 who was a better gamer could mop the floor with the perma-nub that had been flailing his way through a game for 3 months.
Holy shit, a Gorath post I can agree with ;) The world is truly at an end.
I don't give a f about casual players and I really don't see a point in making mod easier and less serious for everyone.
Die in a fire, thanks. Amount of grinding does not equate to player skill in the least. Go play a JRPG if you want grind. I hear FFXIV online is calling you.
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Gaining experience and gold 5x faster is a pretty good incentive I'd say.
If you are level 30 and have all your eqiup (with easy upkeep now) it doesn't really matter. At least my motivation to win rounds is like before the patch... I don't care.
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WTF is with gamers nowadays. Games used to be all about skill, where someone that jumped in on day 1 who was a better gamer could mop the floor with the perma-nub that had been flailing his way through a game for 3 months.
Grind in crpg mod and grind in general are two different things. In crpg, I've never had a feeling that I'm grinding because its gameplay is so intense and epic. You grind in stupid WoW clones because you actually do something super boring to achieve stats which will allow you to do something less boring in the future (PvE games are boring, no matter what lvl you are).
There is a way to fix flaws previous patch had (high agi spammers) and that doesn't have to be upkeep system. Instead of making changes he did, chadz could balance gear and put skill req for every type of gear (armor - IF, melee - PS, xbow - PD) and put reqs for high tier gear pretty high (f.e. 9 PS for flamberge, 8 PS for cookie/tears and so on). That would make knights slow in both ways (moving speed and fighting speed) and give skilled fighters wearing less gear an edge over them. Horses could be toned as well. Most things could have been fixed that way. But that doesn't have much to do with Strategus part which seems to be main interest of mod maker, does it ;)
Also, as a self proclaimed archer hater I must say that cut damage for bows is stupid decision. Lowering the damage is reasonable but there is no way arrows do cut damage. I like pierce dmg on morningstar tho, kinda op but realistic.
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Holy shit, a Gorath post I can agree with ;) The world is truly at an end.
:mrgreen:
Well you know underneath all the trolling, for the lulz bullshit and fedora I am actually a gamer. :wink:
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Upkeep costs didn't change all that much on average. They're still like 66% compared to pre-hotfix costs, more than enough to keep me broke in low/medium equip.
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WTF is with gamers nowadays. Games used to be all about skill, where someone that jumped in on day 1 who was a better gamer could mop the floor with the perma-nub that had been flailing his way through a game for 3 months.
Totally with Gorath! At beginning I was like "man I'll never be able to use my medium tier armor/equipment" but now, with the upkeep system, cRPG went from "WoW" with noob grinders owning everybody to a really good mod where skilled players have a good chance at having a good k/d ratio and even kill grinders/stat whores. I'm using a shitty Sarranid padded vest with a turban and nomad boots and the "sword" as a weapon with a heater shield and I could place second/third in my team of 60 players. All due to skills and team work and of course a bit of luck! Not some freakin grinding! Also, we don't even need to say anything, just watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSCUuEBOKxc it explains why IT MUST HAVE AN UPKEEP FOR WINNING TEAM TOO!
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WTF is with gamers nowadays. Games used to be all about skill, where someone that jumped in on day 1 who was a better gamer could mop the floor with the perma-nub that had been flailing his way through a game for 3 months.
Games are becoming more nub friendly. Look at COD series
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Totally with Gorath! At beginning I was like "man I'll never be able to use my medium tier armor/equipment" but now, with the upkeep system, cRPG went from "WoW" with noob grinders owning everybody to a really good mod where skilled players have a good chance at having a good k/d ratio and even kill grinders/stat whores. I'm using a shitty Sarranid padded vest with a turban and nomad boots and the "sword" as a weapon with a heater shield and I could place second/third in my team of 60 players. All due to skills and team work and of course a bit of luck! Not some freakin grinding! Also, we don't even need to say anything, just watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSCUuEBOKxc it explains why IT MUST HAVE AN UPKEEP FOR WINNING TEAM TOO!
What does winning or losing or k/d matter ? I was trying to learn the mechanics but i can't afford to swing a weapon anymore, you know by definition not everyone gets placed top3 out of 60, there's another 57 players out there who would like to have at least a chance.
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Poll statistics do not lie. If 50% of the playing population is uprising on forums for the upkeep system to be removed, this should not be ignored, nor is it whining since this reflects half the playing population that reads these forums, not a minority.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,314.0.html
I hope this is a (poor attempt at a) troll.
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That poll has been there before this thread even started and is real.
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The most basic indication that something's wrong with the latest patch is for the first time in a long time crpg has less users than native Warband. I suppose chadz will consider fixes for the upkeep system once everyone is gone from the server. Then I fear it will be too late to fix an old system without resetting all accounts.
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Translated it for you.
Anyway, your kind of "gameplay" is exactly what needs to die.
It's funny because it's ture.
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@armpit_sweat
The fact my plate nerfs me by around 70 wpf and i have 0 weapon master means its very hard for me to spam but thank you for the reply
@salvius
come siege serve and i can pull out a a 5:1 + K:D and that's without a plated horse which cant be blocked and deals high damage.
I've seen new player noob in game and frankly I don't like him for his play style and I'm sure I'll have the backing of a majority of the community in saying that it should end.
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Gaining experience and gold 5x faster is a pretty good incentive I'd say.
except that now exp have no sense since make high levels is impossible probably 35 is like 500ml xp and if everybody is 30 in 1 day, and they not even need to play actively (exp come passively from all around the map ), be 35 make no difference at all tbh
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Thanks to hotfix the battlefield is swarming with cavalry.
One more hot "fix" like this and we'll have the previous patch scenario.
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The thing I liked in patch that I had big desire to help team and win round.Right now I have no such feeling.
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this is a fix? this is fool ppl, make you calculation
chance at 4% instead 3 (+33%), upkeep from 20% to 5%(-75%), but you have it on losing and winning team (+100%) in total still 66% of what it was previously so upkeep still around 14%
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Okay, I see, some people in this community are so limited, it was too much words.
Easier, plain, simple:
The original patch was way better than the hotfix.
Before hotfix, I won the round for you suckers and saved you from upkeep. Most of the time.
After the hotfix, I win the round for my team, and have to pay upkeep for gear that wasnt even damaged.
You suckers get the multiplier, and I lose my crap internet connection. Awesome.
@Casimir: The fact, that you are a templar doesn't mean that you are more skilled that other players... I've almost never seen you doing something funny or heroic. I know New_Player_Noob way better from the battlefield and if he is higher at the scoreboard than you, I would assume that he is better that you.
btw: If you want to find out who is the more skilled player go and play native, you will NEVER be able to compare this in cRPG ;)
Already suggested to him. I am not very good, but this guy I would pwn on foot.
But this e-peen shit has nothing to do with this topic. This topic is about weak devs. If you dont want to have horses in your mod, fine, then remove it. Fair, and simple.
If you want to force players to waste their free time with mindless grind, fine, its your mod, do it.
But dont change everything because some bad people are whining.
Cavalry, throwing lances, I play my war elephant class the way I want as long its possible. Not to be effective or anything. I play this mod for fun in my free time, and I dont care what you suckers that dont know how to use a cheap pike cry about. I have enough gold to annoy you with my heavy plated charger over the next years. Now suck it up!
The reason why I made this topic is for the (good) people that started to play this mod weeks after me, or are more casual players. They will never be able to use the good stuff, and thats a pity and a shame. Because its cos of the wrong reasons. Jealous whiners that suck as person and as player.
The thing I liked in patch that I had big desire to help team and win round.Right now I have no such feeling.
Exactly!
At the end of a close round, I got some extra kick, I did even pay full attention to the game what I usually never do. It was very exciting, I needed to do my best to save my teams gear.
Now, no point. What would be my motivation to help my team win? What I do, I press tab, when I have some good people on my team then perhaps.............when I have a bunch of lamers I just ride around and have some fun and dont care about those idiots.
without a plated horse which cant be blocked
OH MY GOD are you serious? Lawl Your fucking mindless crush throuh cant be blocked. I stopped this evening many horses with my 3 str alt using a scythe. Learn to play.
I'm using a shitty Sarranid padded vest with a turban and nomad boots and the "sword" as a weapon with a heater shield and I could place second/third in my team of 60 players. All due to skills
lol
If you had "skill" you wouldnt go easy mode and use shield in melee. (No offense against other shielders, 1h shield is a valid class)
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Well said Michael :wink: .
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except that now exp have no sense since make high levels is impossible probably 35 is like 500ml xp and if everybody is 30 in 1 day, and they not even need to play actively (exp come passively from all around the map ), be 35 make no difference at all tbh
And how is attacking a high level archer behind the enemy lines or downing cav in the middle of nowhere so others can fight less active then hiding in the big group and trying to survive? I've spent entire rounds locked with players that trampled half the team last round (and were 15 levels higher), often dying, and I got nothing for it.
And btw, I've seen new_player_noob save my life a couple of times with his charger or bump enemies so someone else could kill them, so I'd consider him a way better player then others who were only ever found backstabbing peasants and running away from anyone who could make a scratch on their charger, even if those got awesome k:d scores.
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Please let the winning team make some more money then the losing team and it'll all be good. Equal losses discourages playing for keeps.
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Winners make more money because of multiplier.
And it's really nice, the upkeep is lentient enough, and fairly predictable.
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I think we should go back to old patch the one before this v0.200 patch it was perfect...so much fun not because I'm heavy tin can or being elephant or archers or any overpower class I just have fun that all it matters but yet you people complaint and complaint and look now most of you changed your mind? we should go back to old days just leave it like that ...just add new items nothing else.People earn their armors fine...players earn their elephant fine I don't mind...they want to be archers for rest of their life...fine, they want to have fun but now it changed everything...should I stay and complaint about everything? No, I just need to admit he/she earn it and he/she deserve it.
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Winners make more money because of multiplier.
Only those "winners" that leech hour after hour.
More casual players, that just want to play a round or two, EPIC FAIL your multiplicator.
Same for all the people with crap internet connection.
And it's really nice, the upkeep is lentient enough, and fairly predictable.
No, no, and no.
Its not sane to force me to pay to repair a horse with 100 % hp left at the end of the round when I have won the round while all those people I have killed have the same chance to get away upkeep free. They should to have to repair themselves, their broken brains in the first place. Then their shield, 1h, ..................they are dead, so they should have to start as level 1 again. lololol
Also, you fail in understanding that different classes need more upkeep than others. With my alts (pure crossbow, pure 2h, and probably staffman next to come) I will always be able to play the game. I dont need the top gear. I can kill many naked with hunting crossbow/ longsword/ quarter staff.
With my elephant rider, I have all my points in riding, power throw, shield and throwing. What the hell I am supposed to do on foot with 0 athletics, 0 power strike and 1 wpf in melee? I can only leech.
Even if the war elephant class was overpowered (it is not, but you will never understand that it needs a lot of skill to use it in a way to make your team win, so we can ignore this and just assume its overpowered), its a valid class and therefore, if you can win more rounds, you should be able to keep it. If you lose, you lose way more money than cheap classes such as staffmen, peasants, bowmen, shielders. So thats the risk you take to play an overpowered class.
Same for heavy infantry and other heavy cavalry.
The original patch was fine, the hotfix is not.
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With my elephant rider
Gee, I really feel sorry for your "class".
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Before hotfix, I won the round for you suckers and saved you from upkeep. Most of the time.
After the hotfix, I win the round for my team, and have to pay upkeep for gear that wasnt even damaged.
You suckers get the multiplier, and I lose my crap internet connection. Awesome.
:rolleyes: visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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Gee, I really feel sorry for your "class".
I told you guys a thousand times now: when you are bad player, you are a bad player in native and in crpg, and vv.
There is no need to prove it over and over with trolling the guys topic who is simply a better player than you.
Deal with it. Learn to counter it. There is the right weapon for every enemy.
Devs, when you dont want to have Knights in your medieval mod, well, its your mod, then at least be fair and remove the items completely.
Now its like this: The hotfix privileges players of cheap classes such as staffmen, bowmen, peasants, shielders, it privileges mindless grinders, and it privileges losers.
Seriously, you cant blame and punish people for willing to play with a beautiful horse or a shiny armor, when you put these items right in front of the peoples noses. Its obvious that some/ most of them want to play with these nice items and have fun with them. Others might be happy with cheap shitty gear we know as default from native, but why dont they just play native and leave us alone?
Gorath, I dont know why I waste my time with you. Come to a native Eu duel server (you will have less lag there than I have), get pwned and then get back to your nice little world where you can abuse your power and randomly ban people. Stfu.
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Yeah go to 0.2 1/2! I loved the stressfull planing what gear im up to next round :twisted:
Thank you for disable riders to throw ladders, or to remove the invisible shield around the plate shield (buckler). So many things changed in good really cool:)
So i would suggest to change the upkeep to 12% of its costs. 20% was ok but the level up grew too fast. i uderstood the mathematics and welcome to decrease both xp and upkeep. That was tough an not predicted. You did your job Einstein ;)
I agree with micheal in few points. The first questions, according to micheals mention thats not fair to pay for his elephant although it didnt take damage is can chadz implement a fight or contact detection for our gear?
In other words, does the engine recognize your sword had hit anything?
At least the second question.
On one side you will save your gold michael, on the otherside what will happen if evrybody avoid charge because they fear the upkeep? Did you think about that?
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Finished, I'm really sorry your easymode class got nerfed. And yes, it is a easymode class. Sure, counters exist.
Counters to old archery if chadz decided to give them 200 p base damage on top instead of nerfing them and shield penetrating arrows would also exist. The existence of counters doesn't mean something is balanced. Everyone who says "but you can defeat my class with teamwork/etc" is trolling, because if your class can only be defeated by teamwork then it's obviously a OP easymode class, since you don't need your teammates to defeat them, do you?
Play a normal cavalryman now that even a destrier is very hard to upkeep. Your horse gets piked/slashed/whatever? It's dead. There's no second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and tenth chance to fuck up, it's dead and now you're down on the floor. If you can get away by fucking up ten times, then it would cease to be balanced in any way.
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I told you guys a thousand times now: when you are bad player, you are a bad player in native and in crpg, and vv.
There is no need to prove it over and over with trolling the guys topic who is simply a better player than you.
Deal with it. Learn to counter it. There is the right weapon for every enemy.
Devs, when you dont want to have Knights in your medieval mod, well, its your mod, then at least be fair and remove the items completely.
Now its like this: The hotfix privileges players of cheap classes such as staffmen, bowmen, peasants, shielders, it privileges mindless grinders, and it privileges losers.
Seriously, you cant blame and punish people for willing to play with a beautiful horse or a shiny armor, when you put these items right in front of the peoples noses. Its obvious that some/ most of them want to play with these nice items and have fun with them. Others might be happy with cheap shitty gear we know as default from native, but why dont they just play native and leave us alone?
Gorath, I dont know why I waste my time with you. Come to a native Eu duel server (you will have less lag there than I have), get pwned and then get back to your nice little world where you can abuse your power and randomly ban people. Stfu.
dont waste time on gorath and ishar, are 2 unknow moron that only troll on forum and not add anything. they happy becouse probably they where unable to grow theyr char and now they feel like they have a chance
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dont waste time on gorath and ishar, are 2 unknown moron
You must be new to the forums, the mod, the game and the internet.
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But the elephant horse and the playstile of Michael are able in cRPG. So you cant complain. If you think it's op, then go play it yourself if you have to win at all costs. If this isn't the case go play the game again and let everybody play like he/she wants. ;) You guys simply don't get, that cRPG will NEVER be balanced. If you want to play Warband with equal chances for everyone, go and play native...
I never used high tier armors and horses because I couldn't afford them, but I'm skilled enough to kill almost every tincan walking around and if an elephant rider would annoy me, I would simply buy a pike and stop him. Personally I don't care about winning or losing but in my opinion version 0.200 was better because the noobs couldn't hide that easy behind their plate armors anymore.
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You must be new to the forums, the mod, the game and the internet.
so new that i was playng this mod when we where less than 100 ppl
and you not where here, so stfu
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so new that i was playng this mod when we where less than 100 ppl
and you not where here, so stfu
Sure, that's why you've only popped up since the new forums. :lol:
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Personally I don't care about winning or losing but in my opinion version 0.200 was better because the noobs couldn't hide that easy behind their plate armors anymore.
Actually, you could comfortably field everything by just going naked when you get autobalanced to a shit team and going all out when autobalanced on winning team. Which really made the effects of autobalance even worse, because it uses K/D and levels as a parameter and when a high KD/level player switches to peasant clothes and rocks (like finished did on the losing team), autobalance doesn't know he just got massively less useful to his team.
On the other hand, when you get to the winning team, trample everyone (who now spawned with inferior gear) with a heavy plated charger. Awesome gameplay.
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Sure, that's why you've only popped up since the new forums. :lol:
you must be very noob for not know me seriously
you are making a very bad figure. check original beta names.
or make a research in talewords forum about vicious or vicious666 or merc_vicious666 i was here first than you probably buyed this mod. so go to talk with superiority to someone else, mister american arrived here at last minute, only becouse you have admin on american server that not means you have a previlegiated position for talk.
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Poll statistics do not lie. If 50% of the playing population is uprising on forums for the upkeep system to be removed, this should not be ignored, nor is it whining since this reflects half the playing population that reads these forums, not a minority.
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,314.0.html
+1