cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: a_bear_irl on October 30, 2012, 06:18:52 pm

Title: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: a_bear_irl on October 30, 2012, 06:18:52 pm
i like using the knob mace a lot, but it being unbalanced really hurts its viability, imo. if it and the spike mace had the unbalanced tag removed, they'd be worth using "seriously" and actually comparable to one of the bardiches, bec, glaive, lhb etc. it'd also be nice to have a knockdown weapon that's not unbalanced or a short mace/baseball bat.

someone will probably point out that it would end up close to the old bec, so it could be slowed down a little (knob mace has 93 speed, spike has 91, maybe down to 91/89 respectively) and i think it would be in a good spot (though i think it would probably be fine with the speed kept as is). the knockdown doesn't proc all that often, and in terms of dueling it's one of the easiest weapons to track, so i don't think it would cause any problems.

free knob/spike mace from unbalanced hell
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on October 30, 2012, 07:41:15 pm
I think you're right about the long-hafted knobbed mace needing the removal of the unbalanced tag. There is very little reason to use the knobbed over the spiked at this time. I'd be fine with the removal of unbalanced for the spiked mace as well, but I see less reason to do so than for the knobbed. I've seen the spiked mace used by newer players, average players, and skilled players alike. I've also used it, and it seems to have pretty good success. Sure, it isn't as effective or as easy to use as a glaive or something, but it seems adequate where it is.

However, it seems that all of the knockdown weapons besides 1h are destined to be unbalanced. Dayum shame.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on October 30, 2012, 08:06:59 pm
I agree, I used to used the spiked mace before it was made unbalanced and it really was a great weapon. Once it was made unbalanced I found it just didn't quite work as well as before, if they take the unbalanced tag away hell I might have to buy one again and loom it  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Kafein on October 30, 2012, 08:47:33 pm
I think it's the other way around. There's no logic behind poleaxes or long bardiches not being unbalanced. Honestly if I had to design a weapon that would be considered unbalanced by everyone, I would probably draw a long bardiche.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: a_bear_irl on October 30, 2012, 08:54:29 pm
realistically there's very few weapons ingame that you could be handled in real life like they are in the game, but this is a videogame so

also: i actually like the knob mace better than the spiked, the 2 speed is worth it over 3 damage imo
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on October 30, 2012, 09:12:36 pm
I like it more, for the look and the extra 5 reach :3
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Digglez on October 30, 2012, 09:37:49 pm
anything over 125 length that has a weight on the end that is being side swung should be unbalanced, thats pure physics for you. 
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Latvian on October 30, 2012, 09:46:19 pm
making these weapons balanced would prevent bundle of stickss like me from gaying around with glaive
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Tydeus on October 31, 2012, 01:07:52 am
I used to hate unbalanced weapons, but recently I have started getting into them for battle and I even picked up a Mighty LHSM yesterday, after spending about a month looking for the damn weapon. As a simple comparison, I'd rather have unbalance than only two swing directions. If you can use the Bill/Halberd effectively Bear, you shouldn't have any problem using these weapons effectively either.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: a_bear_irl on October 31, 2012, 02:54:23 am
yeah, i can definitely do ok with them, but unbalanced is still a big handicap that (imo) the long maces shouldn't have.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: TurmoilTom on October 31, 2012, 03:08:58 am
I think that they're fine as is.

Getting up to 2 extra hits in addition to the initial hit for the price of one around 40% of the time is a pretty big deal.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Achelous on October 31, 2012, 10:16:01 pm
If this is a serious request I suggest you respec and do something else, 91 speed and unbalanced pfff ez mode knockdown first or second swing maybe throw a kick in there and then swing again boom done!
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Vodner on October 31, 2012, 10:33:16 pm
They are already very good weapons, especially given that the knockdown rate at +3 allows you to severely punish any sort of risk taking on your opponent's part.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: a_bear_irl on November 02, 2012, 09:42:26 am
(click to show/hide)
i pulled this image from a GD thread, a +3 poleaxe is

32b
33p thrust
90 spd
141 reach
3.3 weight

compared to +3 knob mace:

32b
23b thrust (-10, inferior damage type iirc)
93 spd (+3)
133 reach (-9)
3.3 weight
unbalanced (!)

spike mace +3

35b (+3)
22b thrust (-11)
91 speed (+1)
138 length (-3)
3.5 weight (+.2)
unbalanced (!)

based on this, i think it's reasonable to ask for a buff to the maces, since they're "dedicated" blunt weapons that significantly worse than an alt-fire on the poleaxe. (although, you guys might think that the slight damage/speed advantages make up for the unbalanced/range)

edit: also unless it was changed for this patch the poleaxes altfire does have knockdown
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Smoothrich on November 04, 2012, 06:07:38 am
this weapon is very popular now, asking for buffs is just you being biased

if anything the poleaxe should be nerfed across the board
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Tydeus on November 04, 2012, 12:11:54 pm
Quote from: a_bear_irl on November 02, 2012, 09:42:26 am
(click to show/hide)
i pulled this image from a GD thread, a +3 poleaxe is

32b
33p thrust
90 spd
141 reach
3.3 weight

compared to +3 knob mace:

32b
23b thrust (-10, inferior damage type iirc)
93 spd (+3)
133 reach (-9)
3.3 weight
unbalanced (!)

spike mace +3

35b (+3)
22b thrust (-11)
91 speed (+1)
138 length (-3)
3.5 weight (+.2)
unbalanced (!)

based on this, i think it's reasonable to ask for a buff to the maces, since they're "dedicated" blunt weapons that significantly worse than an alt-fire on the poleaxe. (although, you guys might think that the slight damage/speed advantages make up for the unbalanced/range)

edit: also unless it was changed for this patch the poleaxes altfire does have knockdown
Lol cmpfail on those alt mode stats.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: zagibu on November 04, 2012, 01:05:38 pm
Quote from: a_bear_irl on October 30, 2012, 08:54:29 pm
... the 2 speed is worth it over 3 damage imo

Only in your head.

To differentiate the two weapons, I'd give the knobbed mace crushthrough and make it slower and a little heavier.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 05, 2012, 06:59:38 pm
I think the long hafted knobbed mace is fine, I'm a polearm user, but I'd actually go in the other direction, weapons like the long bardiche should have the unbalanced tag added to them (it's my go to weapon for a polearm, sheathable and is balanced, however it's slow as fuck.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Strider on November 10, 2012, 07:37:39 pm
Yep. Long Spiked Mace is a mediocre weapon.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Rebelyell on November 11, 2012, 01:53:35 pm
Quote from: Smoothrich on November 04, 2012, 06:07:38 am
this weapon is very popular now, asking for buffs is just you being biased

if anything the poleaxe should be nerfed across the board
he have a point,
poleaxe is pro weapon now, there

all dmg ttpes with decent spead and good DMG output
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: BlindGuy on November 11, 2012, 02:13:48 pm
Quote from: Sandersson Jankins on October 30, 2012, 07:41:15 pm

However, it seems that all of the knockdown weapons besides 1h are destined to be unbalanced. Dayum shame.

Check the shop, click the button for 2handers: They have Studded Warclub, Goedendag, and the massively spammy Mace. All balanced, all knockdown, all can be spammed, and the goedendag even gets a nice pierce attack to finnish off the enemy once he is knocked down.


I kinda want an explantion of the item called Light Spiked Club: its a ok starter weapon for a 1hander, its got pierce damage so u can land some hits, but in the shop it is labelled "Knockdown". Now I have killed hundreds of players with this crappy thing for 2 years now and it has never knocked down anyone.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: Dezilagel on November 11, 2012, 04:51:47 pm
Quote from: BlindGuy on November 11, 2012, 02:13:48 pm
I kinda want an explantion of the item called Light Spiked Club: its a ok starter weapon for a 1hander, its got pierce damage so u can land some hits, but in the shop it is labelled "Knockdown". Now I have killed hundreds of players with this crappy thing for 2 years now and it has never knocked down anyone.

That's because you can't knockdown with pierce damage; the knockdown tag doesn't do anything for it.

May be a troll, may be an oversight.
Title: Re: make long hafted knob/spike maces balanced
Post by: BlindGuy on November 11, 2012, 05:06:32 pm
Quote from: Dezilagel on November 11, 2012, 04:51:47 pm
That's because you can't knockdown with pierce damage...


Yeah I realise that :P thanks

What I meant was: what a troll tag, I reported it 2 years ago and it's still there even though it is just a line of text....Maybe Im just not using enough PS :D