cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Formless on August 06, 2012, 05:46:35 am

Title: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Formless on August 06, 2012, 05:46:35 am
1 Hand needs a fix, with  6ps a 32 cut weapon i bounced off naked flesh, the dude was wearing no armour and I bounced right off.  1 Hand suffers from some really stupid bounces, not to meantion its underpowred and armour seems to be getting heavier and heaviers. Can we at least fix the bounces.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Zerran on August 06, 2012, 05:52:30 am
1H does not need a fix.

1H CUT weapons do.

Picks and hammers are fine, the swords and axes however could definitely use some love.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 06, 2012, 05:57:21 am
9 PS 30c glanced off of Klappvisier. Both of us were stationary. Don't know if the Klapp was loomed or not. Shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: dreadnok on August 06, 2012, 06:55:49 am
9 PS 30c glanced off of Klappvisier. Both of us were stationary. Don't know if the Klapp was loomed or not. Shouldn't matter.

its 30c thats really weak. ps is inly good with higher damage weapons. 3oc is peasant damage the helm is what 56 armor.  even your highest damage hit 30c wont be near 56 armor
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: dreadnok on August 06, 2012, 07:21:55 am
why the fuck did i get  a negative for that> its legit info. fuckoff hardrice
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Zerran on August 06, 2012, 07:23:33 am
its 30c thats really weak. ps is inly good with higher damage weapons. 3oc is peasant damage the helm is what 56 armor.  even your highest damage hit 30c wont be near 56 armor

C-rpg calculator:

27 str
9 ps
100 effective wpf

30 cut
1H

56 armor


Damage-
minimum: 5
Average: 15
Maximum: 25

and that's without the 20% headshot damage bonus.

The 1H sweetspot is the issue here. The blunt/pierce weapons don't have the same issue because they don't get nearly the same flat cut off the top of their damage from armor, however the cut weapons are gimped because of it.

Polearm sweetspot on the right swing is decent, not great, but useable. The other swings are a bit crappy.

2H has amazing sweetspots on all attacks, which is why they often seem faster than their speed rating would make one think.

1H animations have atrocious sweetspots. Hence why the users need to hit in the very best part of the swing, which slows them down drastically if they aren't using the left swing. This is why the right swing is so slow. You have to hit in the latter half of the swing, while with most weapons you hit in the very first 20% of the swing. Hence why 1H HAVE to spam leftswing. Their other attacks are slowed down drastically because of bad sweetspots.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Para on August 06, 2012, 07:43:12 am
1 Hand needs a fix, with  6ps a 32 cut weapon i bounced off naked flesh, the dude was wearing no armour and I bounced right off.  1 Hand suffers from some really stupid bounces, not to meantion its underpowred and armour seems to be getting heavier and heaviers. Can we at least fix the bounces.

You didn't sweet spot it correctly. Turn harder in to the swing as well.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on August 06, 2012, 07:58:33 am
Yeah, needs a fix, but I don't know to to go about it.
I can't tell the the number of times my right swings glance. Stabs too.
And the intentional delay in left swings when they are block is ludicrous when it's the only swing that doesn't miss or glance.

Equal rights!
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: snipercapt on August 06, 2012, 08:03:09 am
I've used 1h without shield for a generation, I really never felt underpowered, sure I get my ass handed to me by str 2h but every glance I had was definitely my fault and not the weapon.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Tibe on August 06, 2012, 08:03:31 am
1H does not need a fix.

1H CUT weapons do.

Picks and hammers are fine, the swords and axes however could definitely use some love.

HAH. Ofcourse the picks and hammers are fine. Most OP 1h weapons(or only ones that havent been nerfed enough). The movement of the pick is something no player really gets and 1h hammers 90% immediately kick you to the dirt on first hit, that lets the enemy finish you off with no effort.

And I used a 1h sword 1 gen. Cant say I felt underpowered. Worked exactly according to my skill.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Toodles on August 06, 2012, 08:09:06 am
Would enjoy a slightly slower left to right and slightly faster right to left. There is to my knowledge little reason not to use a curved / blunt / pierce one handed weapon, which is a shame.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: dreadnok on August 06, 2012, 10:13:11 am
HAH. Ofcourse the picks and hammers are fine. Most OP 1h weapons(or only ones that havent been nerfed enough). The movement of the pick is something no player really gets and 1h hammers 90% immediately kick you to the dirt on first hit, that lets the enemy finish you off with no effort.

And I used a 1h sword 1 gen. Cant say I felt underpowered. Worked exactly according to my skill.

ehh every class has op weapons. i use it to piss em off
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: wanteds on August 06, 2012, 10:58:00 am
1 Hand needs a fix, with  6ps a 32 cut weapon i bounced off naked flesh, the dude was wearing no armour and I bounced right off.  1 Hand suffers from some really stupid bounces, not to meantion its underpowred and armour seems to be getting heavier and heaviers. Can we at least fix the bounces.

Is this happening after the patch or are you talking in general? It could be a bug if its occurring after the patch, but if you mean that it's always been like this, then you are not doing good swings. 1h is the last class that needs buff, its a very strong and effective class.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Leshma on August 06, 2012, 12:29:36 pm
Has nothing to do with the patch. For 1H you need some pretty damn good footwork to hit anything.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Teeth on August 06, 2012, 12:37:16 pm
The stab is fucked up. Like all the other stabs, 1h can sometimes sort of insta hit on facehug range. Like hoplites do nowadays. But other times it just glances at close range even though you do exactly the same shit. It's really random. On long range however, the stab always glances nowadays. Which makes the 1h stab pretty damn useless, cause you can't count on it on short range and it doesn't work on long range.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Mlekce on August 06, 2012, 12:38:37 pm
if you are under 8 ps with one handed weapons you are completly usless.
I currently have 7 ps,and i have problems with heavy armored dudes i still need 4 hits to kill them. Anything under 7ps will glance and it will deal low dmg.
You will need 5-6 hits to kill anyone unless you use some of the picks.
Only one handed swords need buff,every sword exept nordic war,champ,kas,elite scimitar,arab cav sword,italian sword is completly usless.
Any 2 handed weapon is awsome,but moust of 1h weapons are complete shit.
1h axes and hammers,and picks are fine,they dont realy ned a buff,but 1h swords realy need buff because they deal very low dmg,they are slower when compared to 2h and polearms.
Enemy will shurely block your first attack,and it realy seems easy for 2h to block 1h swords. 1hvs1h is usualy turn fight i hit your shield,you mine untill someone brake someones shield or someone else interfeere.
It is very lame and need to be fixed.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: _GTX_ on August 06, 2012, 01:23:32 pm
I have dueled alot, as people might know. And the hardest weapon to try and make it bounce, is by far the 1hands. So u are doing something wrong.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Corsair831 on August 06, 2012, 01:25:55 pm
they do not need a buff at all, armour just needs a nerf.

The only reason you'll bounce is because you're using a weapon that's too long or too light.

The things that effect the bouncing mechanic most in warband are the weight of the weapon primarily, and second the speed bonus, which is in turn effected by the point of your weapon that hits the enemy, aka how long is your weapon and which bit do you usually hit with. If you have a sword like the nordic champion sword or knightly arming sword it will bounce 10x more than the basic arming sword / nordic war sword, they're too long.

Quote
if you are under 8 ps with one handed weapons you are completly usless.
I currently have 7 ps,and i have problems with heavy armored dudes i still need 4 hits to kill them. Anything under 7ps will glance and it will deal low dmg.
You will need 5-6 hits to kill anyone unless you use some of the picks.
Only one handed swords need buff,every sword exept nordic war,champ,kas,elite scimitar,arab cav sword,italian sword is completly usless.
Any 2 handed weapon is awsome,but moust of 1h weapons are complete shit.
1h axes and hammers,and picks are fine,they dont realy ned a buff,but 1h swords realy need buff because they deal very low dmg,they are slower when compared to 2h and polearms.
Enemy will shurely block your first attack,and it realy seems easy for 2h to block 1h swords. 1hvs1h is usualy turn fight i hit your shield,you mine untill someone brake someones shield or someone else interfeere.
It is very lame and need to be fixed.

the swords you have described there are the ones which are in fact crap. The long 1h swords bounce so much. I'd only use those as cavalry swords or if im caked in tincan. I used nothing but simple sword +0 with 7 PS and 100 1h WPF for 2 gens on my thrower and i had no problems whatsoever with bouncing or even with killing.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 06, 2012, 01:28:21 pm
if you are under 8 ps with one handed weapons you are completly usless.
I currently have 7 ps,and i have problems with heavy armored dudes i still need 4 hits to kill them. Anything under 7ps will glance and it will deal low dmg.
You will need 5-6 hits to kill anyone unless you use some of the picks.
Only one handed swords need buff,every sword exept nordic war,champ,kas,elite scimitar,arab cav sword,italian sword is completly usless.
Any 2 handed weapon is awsome,but moust of 1h weapons are complete shit.
1h axes and hammers,and picks are fine,they dont realy ned a buff,but 1h swords realy need buff because they deal very low dmg,they are slower when compared to 2h and polearms.
Enemy will shurely block your first attack,and it realy seems easy for 2h to block 1h swords. 1hvs1h is usualy turn fight i hit your shield,you mine untill someone brake someones shield or someone else interfeere.
It is very lame and need to be fixed.

I find this completely wrong and misleading.

My current build is 15/21 and all i have is 5 PS....and yet i get plenty of kills, so im not sure what your getting at but if your having to do 4 hits on armoured guys your either not hitting them in their head or your hits are partially glancing. I use a miltiary cleaver its got 35c, its relatively long and speedy and i get plenty of kills with it. My shield is what lets me down, but in the end good blocking skills sorts that out. With 1H you can outspam most 2H weapons and therefore have an automatic advantage, as well as the fact of using footwork is critical.

Charging in screaming and yelling whilst swinging like an old mans balls as you charge in is just a typical way of getting you killed
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Molly on August 06, 2012, 01:31:14 pm
I find this completely wrong and misleading.

My current build is 15/21 and all i have is 5 PS....and yet i get plenty of kills, so im not sure what your getting at but if your having to do 4 hits on armoured guys your either not hitting them in their head or your hits are partially glancing. I use a miltiary cleaver its got 35c, its relatively long and speedy and i get plenty of kills with it. My shield is what lets me down, but in the end good blocking skills sorts that out. With 1H you can outspam most 2H weapons and therefore have an automatic advantage, as well as the fact of using footwork is critical.

Charging in screaming and yelling whilst swinging like an old mans balls as you charge in is just a typical way of getting you killed
He's Welsh. He's smart he thinks...
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Mlekce on August 06, 2012, 01:31:54 pm
I have dueled alot, as people might know. And the hardest weapon to try and make it bounce, is by far the 1hands. So u are doing something wrong.

What do you know abbout 1h? You were fighting yesterday in over 60 body armor and danish greatsword with at least 8 athl.
The guy glanced on naked body because of wrong hit,that is his mistake,but anything under 7 ps on havy armor will bounce a lot no matter who fight(i am talking abbout 1h swords,not picks).
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 06, 2012, 01:33:02 pm
He's Welsh. He's smart he thinks...

No its just ive been playing with 1H for a while as has Mlecke, and yet this is the class ive gained the most kills with, beating my 2H which i got around a 1.2;1 k/d (im not a very kill major player).
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Molly on August 06, 2012, 01:34:55 pm
Wasn't even trying to troll :O
Well... a lil' bit maybe...
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Mlekce on August 06, 2012, 01:36:37 pm
I find this completely wrong and misleading.

My current build is 15/21 and all i have is 5 PS....and yet i get plenty of kills, so im not sure what your getting at but if your having to do 4 hits on armoured guys your either not hitting them in their head or your hits are partially glancing. I use a miltiary cleaver its got 35c, its relatively long and speedy and i get plenty of kills with it. My shield is what lets me down, but in the end good blocking skills sorts that out. With 1H you can outspam most 2H weapons and therefore have an automatic advantage, as well as the fact of using footwork is critical.

Charging in screaming and yelling whilst swinging like an old mans balls as you charge in is just a typical way of getting you killed
yeah i know who you are. You are that guy who wear heraldic tranny,plate gloves and you hit like a truck.
No way you have 5 ps because you kill me in 2 hits and i have 7if and over 50 head armor.
Military cleaver is not a sword it is cleaver,loomed cleaver have 38 cut so it is like 2h sword.
It is not same having 34 and 38 cut,and it is different animations.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Mlekce on August 06, 2012, 01:40:08 pm
No its just ive been playing with 1H for a while as has Mlecke, and yet this is the class ive gained the most kills with, beating my 2H which i got around a 1.2;1 k/d (im not a very kill major player).
i have 1.5/1 k:d ratio so what? I had 2:1 k:d ratio.
It is not in ratio it is thing that i can't fight alone without support moust of the time,and i never can get under 7 ps.
If i need to hit tincan 5 times i will die before i can hit him 5 times.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: gazda on August 06, 2012, 01:42:50 pm
lol, who goes 1h inf, just get a 2h my old friendsword or go cav
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 06, 2012, 01:43:59 pm
yeah i know who you are. You are that guy who wear heraldic tranny,plate gloves and you hit like a truck.
No way you have 5 ps because you kill me in 2 hits and i have 7if and over 50 head armor.
Military cleaver is not a sword it is cleaver,loomed cleaver have 38 cut so it is like 2h sword.
It is not same having 34 and 38 cut,and it is different animations.

You obv do not know me

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

And thats only a +1 cleaver not masterwork, and in previous gens i used to use an unloomed knightly arming sword and never had the probem you do.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Gurnisson on August 06, 2012, 01:44:50 pm
1 Hand needs a fix, with  6ps a 32 cut weapon i bounced off naked flesh, the dude was wearing no armour and I bounced right off.  1 Hand suffers from some really stupid bounces, not to meantion its underpowred and armour seems to be getting heavier and heaviers. Can we at least fix the bounces.

Learn to use footwork and time attack. It's your own fault for bouncing on a naked dude with 6 ps and a 32 cut weapon. Hell, it's probably your own fault for bouncing at almost anything. Held hits, aiming for the head etc. is nice to use when you spot some slow tanks with heavy armor. But I guess it's easier to ask for the buff than to learn how to counter them? Yes, you will still need quite a lot of hits, but as long as you're going for headhits you it should go relatively fast.

Anyway, I have a 1H cav alt at level 28 I often use as a shielder on the ground. I have 5 ps and a 31 cut weapon, and I can only remember once I glanced that I wouldn't class as my own fault. An overhead with my elite scimi to Merc_Bjorn (who's a massive tank) that bounced because of his strength build and heavy armor. Apart from that, it's fine, and that's 5 ps with a 31 cut weapon
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Camaris on August 06, 2012, 01:45:21 pm
Actually in my opinion 1h Swords should stop with cut damage where 2H-Swords do start.
Bastard Sword is cheap and does 35 Damage so best High-Damage 1h-Swords (Not cleaver etc.) should start
out with 34 Base-Damage.

=> NCS 34
=> KAS 33
and then balance everything according ;)
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Mlekce on August 06, 2012, 01:49:02 pm
You obv do not know me

(click to show/hide)

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it looks like wpf compensate the lack of ps. Are you playing in EU or NA servers?

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(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 06, 2012, 01:52:53 pm
it looks like wpf compensate the lack of ps. Are you playing in EU or NA servers?

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(click to show/hide)

EU, a lot

WPF adds to damage considerably thats where your losing the current bonus from. I've never understood why and how people can go STR shielders due to the lack of WPF. With this current prof i can outspam most 2h'ers and most times 3 hit armoured plate.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Mlekce on August 06, 2012, 01:55:44 pm
EU, a lot

WPF adds to damage considerably thats where your losing the current bonus from. I've never understood why and how people can go STR shielders due to the lack of WPF. With this current prof i can outspam most 2h'ers and most times 3 hit armoured plate.

i just run some test on min max calc and you deal min 44c and max 50 c i deal with my build 47c and 53c.
Ffs you hit same as me,and i am slower then you.
You will have advantage in speed i will have in more health,and we wear same armor.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Tzar on August 06, 2012, 02:05:47 pm
Only a nub would complain about 1h being weak lmao.

If you cant be arsed to hold your swings or move with your swing off course your gonna bounce of stuff its the same for every class not just 1h.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: TurmoilTom on August 06, 2012, 04:43:28 pm
Only a nub would complain about 1h being weak lmao.

If you cant be arsed to hold your swings or move with your swing off course your gonna bounce of stuff its the same for every class not just 1h.

That's funny because back when I was a balanced (18/21) two-hander I remember purposefully moving in the opposite direction of my swings in the duel server to see if it would glance. It never did.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on August 06, 2012, 04:48:00 pm
I've seen two kinds of people here so far, those that see a problem and confront it.
And those that just say "lol nub you suck, try all these obvious techniques for doing damage"

I've seen formless play, he knows how the game works.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on August 06, 2012, 07:29:16 pm
My only complaint is that stabbing with a dagger glues your feet to the ground as if you were thrusting a lance. Your enemy will dance around you as you perform slow motion tai chi moves.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Osiris on August 06, 2012, 07:33:38 pm
Why would you use no wm? I never glanced as a 1h unless i stabbed by mistake, try moving your mouse right as you left swing for extra speed
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: HarunYahya on August 06, 2012, 07:51:26 pm
its 30c thats really weak. ps is inly good with higher damage weapons. 3oc is peasant damage the helm is what 56 armor.  even your highest damage hit 30c wont be near 56 armor
Man is right , y u give him - ?

Dafuck you expect with 30 cut damage ?
Use your footwork correct to avoid glance with cut damage type weapons or follow the steps below to fix your problem.
1)Get steel pick
2)Use only left swing
3)???
4)Profit
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Turboflex on August 06, 2012, 07:53:38 pm
the important thing was to nerf 1h overhead and stabs in last patch, cuz they were so op before.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 06, 2012, 08:53:22 pm
You know that feeling when you execute a 1h left swing or polearm right swing? Smooth animation, big sweet spot, fast, doesn't glance...

2h users get that wonderful feeling on all four attack directions. And this is why 2h is overwhelmingly the most popular weapon type.

Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: _GTX_ on August 06, 2012, 08:57:24 pm
What do you know abbout 1h? You were fighting yesterday in over 60 body armor and danish greatsword with at least 8 athl.
The guy glanced on naked body because of wrong hit,that is his mistake,but anything under 7 ps on havy armor will bounce a lot no matter who fight(i am talking abbout 1h swords,not picks).

What do i know? I played it myself, i dueled it 100000000000000 times. I know alot about the combat system, because i want to find a weak point i can create a trick around. And i have played this game for ages.

But u on the other hand are talking about stuff u dont know. I dont have over 60 body armor, so wrong. I do not have 8 athletics, so wrong again. So stop acting like u know every detail about me?.

Edit: 2h does glance :P.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: _GTX_ on August 06, 2012, 08:59:19 pm
 double post woops.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Renegat on August 06, 2012, 10:29:02 pm
So many bullshit in this topic and so many players giving their opinion on something they obviously don't know ...
1h+shield was op 2 years ago, before they implemented the upkeep system. After that, 1h was pretty balanced and nowadays it's just fucked up.

Reason? Thanks to devs who wanted to nerf 2h's stab, 1hs have been nerfed (you think what i'm saying isn't logic? Me too.)
The only viable attack remaining is the left swing. Stab have always been a pretty inefficient attack and have been nerfed more with this "2h nerf" (actually i don't see in what way 2h have been nerfed, but nvm).
Overhead was a good alternative to left swing (weaker ofc, but still viable) but have been nerfed with the same patch, and is now pretty difficult to use (apart if the opponant don't move at all).
Right swing is pretty slow and can easily be outspam by a greatsword/polearm user (very logical too when you compare 1h weapon speed and other class weapon's speed, but nvm).

What's the point in being a shielder now? We need at least 3 hits to kill a guy with a medium armor (i'm not even speaking about heraldic/plate users), we can only rely on our left swing, sword users often glance (yes we often glance, mr "i know everything better than you" gtx). The only viable thing to do now as a shielder is to use a steel/military pick or a military hammer and spam left swing. Great.

Result? Leave shielding alone and stop saying big fucking bullshit like "overhead and stab were op, now it's fine", so you won't appear like a foolish stupid idiot (yes, it makes me rage)

PS : 1 advice for those who want to have a non biaised opinion about shielding : Make a 1 hander+shield alt, then play it at least 2 weeks. Playing it just a few days is not enough. If you play it 2 weeks, you will have the great occasion to feel the frustration rising in you after having being teamhitted more in a few days as a shielder than in a few months as every other class, after having being killed several times by noobs (who can barely block a basic feint) just because they spam with their 2h sword while backpedaling (that's what we call "2h heroes"), and so on (i let some suspens for those who want to discover how op shielding is).
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 06, 2012, 10:34:36 pm
Overhead was a good alternative to left swing (weaker ofc, but still viable) but have been nerfed with the same patch, and is now pretty difficult to use (apart if the opponant don't move at all).

Spin rate limit on thrusts and overheads should be a function of weapon length and weight (or more accurately moment of inertia). This would preserve 1h viability while still preventing pike helicopters and maul overhead tornadoes of doom. No one ever complained about OP 1h thrusts/overheads.

1h overhead used to be what separated the good players from the mediocre. Now even the skilled 1h players don't dare try an overhead on a non-afk player, because any alert player will just sidestep and kill you. Like Renegat said, 1h has been reduced to running around left-swing spamming, because it's all we have left. 1h thrust always sucked, but at least it was high risk/high reward because you could do crazy spinthrusts and occasionally land hits on superior players when the hitbox gods cooperated.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Osiris on August 06, 2012, 11:42:20 pm
Quote
you play it 2 weeks, you will have the great occasion to feel the frustration rising in you after having being teamhitted more in a few days as a shielder than in a few months as every other class, after having being killed several times by noobs (who can barely block a basic feint) just because they spam with their 2h sword while backpedaling (that's what we call "2h heroes"), and so on (i let some suspens for those who want to discover how op shielding is).


that is what made me rage respec to 2h this gen :P ive been 1h shield maybe 1/3 of all my gens. Stab used to be very usefull. I still do pretty well with a sword and shield but it is very weak compared to 2h. The team wounding tho damn i swear the next piker/2h who stabs me in the back when im a shielder (if i dont die because the enemy gets a free shot) is being sent strait to hell via team kill :P
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Taser on August 07, 2012, 12:28:22 am
(click to show/hide)

1h seems fine to me. Unless someone's going to say it doesn't count because I use a military cleaver.

Also to show off my e-peen.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: HarunYahya on August 07, 2012, 01:04:55 am
You guys think 1 hander sux and that's  because you have wrong expectations.
If you expect to be the best duelist or top scoreboard all the time you are wrong my friend.
2h is far more superior due to it's long range , über high damage and easy mode playing pace.
Polearm is far more superior due to it's insane damage , so-called "removed" polestagger and lightning speed facehugging stabs etc
Why the hell do you compete those guys in terms of damage ?
How do you think you can deal more damage than a guy with danish greatsword when you have a fucking scimitar ?

I played all possible classes in this game , i mean ALL classes .

If you expect correct things , all classes are fucking op.

As a shielder i think my duty is forming shieldwalls , charging in front , stalling enemy groups , "tanking" enemy "carries" and if my teammates fail to communicate with me during battle i should be able defend myself by killing enemies.
If you prioritize defending your "damage dealing teammates" , you are doing it right.
Why the fuck would you try to kill people while you have a teammate with great maul ? Just protect the guy and let him finish them off...

Just use your simple fucking logic and you'll enjoy every class you play because you'll feel that you are doing your job and contributing to your team and taking part of it's success.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Aseldo on August 07, 2012, 01:11:45 am
The stab is fucked up. Like all the other stabs, 1h can sometimes sort of insta hit on facehug range. Like hoplites do nowadays. But other times it just glances at close range even though you do exactly the same shit. It's really random. On long range however, the stab always glances nowadays. Which makes the 1h stab pretty damn useless, cause you can't count on it on short range and it doesn't work on long range.

Exactly how I feel, thrust is so unreliable, it might just glance and stun me and leave me wide open to die.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: peter_afca7 on August 07, 2012, 01:19:21 am
one handed without shield is the worst to duel against in my opinion
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Taser on August 07, 2012, 01:29:41 am
one handed without shield is the worst to duel against in my opinion

Not sure if that's because 1h's are awesome or because people that go 1h without shield are usually really good.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: PhantomZero on August 07, 2012, 01:40:18 am
All you need to do is attack a 1h without a shield. The weapon with less weight when blocking becomes slower on the attack as I recall, a sort of "stunning" mechanic?

I would like to see the 1h get a better thrust, that isn't so unreliable especially since that is kind of the point. (heh)


Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on August 07, 2012, 01:45:57 am
So many bullshit in this topic and so many players giving their opinion on something they obviously don't know ...
1h+shield was op 2 years ago, before they implemented the upkeep system. After that, 1h was pretty balanced and nowadays it's just fucked up.

Reason? Thanks to devs who wanted to nerf 2h's stab, 1hs have been nerfed (you think what i'm saying isn't logic? Me too.)
The only viable attack remaining is the left swing. Stab have always been a pretty inefficient attack and have been nerfed more with this "2h nerf" (actually i don't see in what way 2h have been nerfed, but nvm).
Overhead was a good alternative to left swing (weaker ofc, but still viable) but have been nerfed with the same patch, and is now pretty difficult to use (apart if the opponant don't move at all).
Right swing is pretty slow and can easily be outspam by a greatsword/polearm user (very logical too when you compare 1h weapon speed and other class weapon's speed, but nvm).

What's the point in being a shielder now? We need at least 3 hits to kill a guy with a medium armor (i'm not even speaking about heraldic/plate users), we can only rely on our left swing, sword users often glance (yes we often glance, mr "i know everything better than you" gtx). The only viable thing to do now as a shielder is to use a steel/military pick or a military hammer and spam left swing. Great.

Result? Leave shielding alone and stop saying big fucking bullshit like "overhead and stab were op, now it's fine", so you won't appear like a foolish stupid idiot (yes, it makes me rage)

PS : 1 advice for those who want to have a non biaised opinion about shielding : Make a 1 hander+shield alt, then play it at least 2 weeks. Playing it just a few days is not enough. If you play it 2 weeks, you will have the great occasion to feel the frustration rising in you after having being teamhitted more in a few days as a shielder than in a few months as every other class, after having being killed several times by noobs (who can barely block a basic feint) just because they spam with their 2h sword while backpedaling (that's what we call "2h heroes"), and so on (i let some suspens for those who want to discover how op shielding is).

+1 to all renegat words. maybe people think im my old friend or noob, maybe some know that im xbow/shielder hybrid for very long time and that last 2-3 month i was pure shielder and maybe, some people would believe that i know something about shielders.
Btw right now i have 107 1h wpf 6 ps and +3 iron war axe(40 cut), and i try to trade it back on steel pick, just because i glance with it on sarranid guard armor yesterday(It was Dave, if he want he can confirm) and also i glance more then 1 time on rus scale armor( it was Diagonal, if he want he can confirm).
And with this weird glances i can say that 3 month ago, when i was with 100 1h wpf 5 ps and +3niuweidao, i have way less glances,but still need a lot of hits to kill. But this day i choose just between couple weapons because i plan 18/24 with 130 wpf in 1h and it is steel pick/military hammer/warhammer and it is all.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 02:01:37 am
Just use your simple f*cking logic and you'll enjoy every class you play because you'll feel that you are doing your job and contributing to your team and taking part of it's success.

I don't think anyone is asking for 1h to go around one-shotting everyone like the 2h heroes. Most people agree shielders should be tops in survivability, but it's hard to survive when 3 out of your 4 attack directions will generally get you killed.

The actual damage output of 1h is more or less balanced, it's just the playstyle has been reduced to left swinging with a pick/hammer. The game deserves more variety than that.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: El_Infante on August 07, 2012, 02:08:25 am
Twohanders think that only them are the class that can top the scoreboard, and if someone post about a thing that is obvious (for example, that one-handers are crap nowadays) they will rage. "You are a support class". There are only few items that make onehanded a profitable class:
- Steel pick.
- Some hammers.

When I played onehanded class it was not for autoblock. It was for covering from ranged spam; pushing archers and other play style. It makes you slower, shields have ridiculous weights (heater shield with the same weight as a great maul), and you have to spend around 6 points on shield skill to have a decent skill with it. One handed class need some love.


Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: rustyspoon on August 07, 2012, 02:10:14 am
I'm probably in the minority, but overall 1h is fine.

1-handers have the potential to glance more because of their lower initial damage. That is also why 1-handers benefit the LEAST from PS. Since PS is percentage-based, 1-handers get the worst return on a PS investment.

You can't really increase 1-h damage, 'cause that would bring them too close to 2h and pole and would make 1h WAY the hell overpowered.

The thing with 1-handers is you need fantastic footwork to do well. Shielders live and die by their footwork, much more so than the other classes. Most shielders also stack str, which I think is the worst overall way to play a 1-hander. Either balanced builds 21/18, 18/18, 18/21 (my personal fav) or builds that more favor agility are the way to go. Shielders just don't get the return when stacking PS. Not to mention the fact that carrying a shield already makes you slow which is bad when you're fighting people with weapons way the hell longer than yours.

At 6PS, it is INCREDIBLY rare if I glance and when I do, it's entirely my fault. Hell, I have an alt with 12 PS that I rarely glance with. I have another 1-h no shield alt with 15 str that also rarely glances. It's all about footwork.

I do think it's easier to do well as a 2-hander or a pole user, but a REALLY good shielder (of which there are only a few) will tear the shit out of an enemy team like no other.

In my opinion, the only big problem with shielders is cut damage. Cut damage is way worse than every other damage type. It hits 1-handers even more so due to their lower initial damage. Still, my sword is my primary weapon and I regularly tear the hell out of str crutching plate users with it. If the devs changed damage types to be more effective vs different types of armors, it would help balance out the damage types a lot.

Also, another place where I'm in the minority, I think the new 1-h stab is FANTASTIC. WAY better than the old stab. You can get the stab off much quicker and can stab much more reliably now if you know what you're doing. It's way better than the old stab where people saw it coming from a mile away.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Taser on August 07, 2012, 02:13:33 am
I'm probably in the minority, but overall 1h is fine.

1-handers have the potential to glance more because of their lower initial damage. That is also why 1-handers benefit the LEAST from PS. Since PS is percentage-based, 1-handers get the worst return on a PS investment.

You can't really increase 1-h damage, 'cause that would bring them too close to 2h and pole and would make 1h WAY the hell overpowered.

The thing with 1-handers is you need fantastic footwork to do well. Shielders live and die by their footwork, much more so than the other classes. Most shielders also stack str, which I think is the worst overall way to play a 1-hander. Either balanced builds 21/18, 18/18, 18/21 (my personal fav) or builds that more favor agility are the way to go. Shielders just don't get the return when stacking PS. Not to mention the fact that carrying a shield already makes you slow which is bad when you're fighting people with weapons way the hell longer than yours.

At 6PS, it is INCREDIBLY rare if I glance and when I do, it's entirely my fault. Hell, I have an alt with 12 PS that I rarely glance with. I have another 1-h no shield alt with 15 str that also rarely glances. It's all about footwork.

I do think it's easier to do well as a 2-hander or a pole user, but a REALLY good shielder (of which there are only a few) will tear the shit out of an enemy team like no other.

In my opinion, the only big problem with shielders is cut damage. Cut damage is way worse than every other damage type. It hits 1-handers even more so due to their lower initial damage. Still, my sword is my primary weapon and I regularly tear the hell out of str crutching plate users with it. If the devs changed damage types to be more effective vs different types of armors, it would help balance out the damage types a lot.

Also, another place where I'm in the minority, I think the new 1-h stab is FANTASTIC. WAY better than the old stab. You can get the stab off much quicker and can stab much more reliably now if you know what you're doing. It's way better than the old stab where people saw it coming from a mile away.

Not sure I agree on the 1h stab but the rest of it I do. I am a str whore shielder though.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 02:20:42 am
It's all about footwork.

The problem is that for a 2h user, "footwork" is whatever they want it to be: backpeddling while cleaving nonstop, spinning around hiltslashing to great effect, 'lancing' with their 200 reach stab. So many options.

For 1h, "footwork" is keeping your enemy just off your left shoulder so you can execute your one decent attack.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Taser on August 07, 2012, 02:22:56 am
The problem is that for a 2h user, "footwork" is whatever they want it to be: backpeddling while cleaving nonstop, spinning around hiltslashing to great effect, 'lancing' with their 200 reach stab. So many options.

For 1h, "footwork" is keeping your enemy just off your left shoulder so you can execute your one decent attack.

Overheads are still effective just like right swings. Right swings are the slowest attacks though and only actually affect the other person halfway through the swing which is much slower than most other attacks on polearms/2h.

Overheads are still really effective though. Half my kills are overheads.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Corsair831 on August 07, 2012, 02:33:11 am
Twohanders think that only them are the class that can top the scoreboard, and if someone post about a thing that is obvious (for example, that one-handers are crap nowadays) they will rage. "You are a support class". There are only few items that make onehanded a profitable class:
- Steel pick.
- Some hammers.

When I played onehanded class it was not for autoblock. It was for covering from ranged spam; pushing archers and other play style. It makes you slower, shields have ridiculous weights (heater shield with the same weight as a great maul), and you have to spend around 6 points on shield skill to have a decent skill with it. One handed class need some love.

i regularly top the scoreboard with a +3 scimitar, and i used to regularly top the scoreboard with a +0 simple sword (pre-nerf).

It's not impossible to do, but i'll admit the overhead turn nerf is a huge loss to 1h and shield. It hasn't at all boiled down to just left swing spamming however, that's rubbish, the other 3 directions are still useful, just not AS useful. 2h is OP definitely, but hell, this is CRPG, and CRPG is a 2h-centric mod :). There are still people that actually believe CRPG archers are overpowered for heaven's sake.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on August 07, 2012, 02:35:23 am
On a similar note, how many "nerf 1h" threads come up weekly?
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Vieuxcrotter on August 07, 2012, 04:06:21 am
I play almost exclusively 1h / shield

Blunt and Piercing dmg are fine, the problem is cut dmg on most of the swords are too low. Some swords are fine tho but most of them are underpowered. Not a single sword behave the same way you can look at stats all day long and on paper sword have good stats but when you start using the weapon you notice that some sword you cannot use the right swing cause its bugged, overhead swing is not reliable and left swing is predictable vs almost anyone that know how to play the game.

Axe have very high cut dmg compare to swords , have same or higher speed and destroy shields, so i dont see why some swords shouldnt get a slight cut damage buff.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 04:12:14 am
I don't think the following would suddenly make the kuyak clones give up their +3 Danish Greatswords in favor of 1h, but these changes would go a long way toward making 1h less infuriating to play:

-make turn rate limit a function of weapon length&weight
-fix the high glance rate on 1h thrust and right swing (i.e. larger sweetspot)
-give 1h swords ~3% more damage on swings. Axes/hammers/picks are fine

Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Formless on August 07, 2012, 06:50:25 am

Like Phew said footwork for a 2 hander is done to induce the other person to make a mistake. For a polearm guy its the same thing except mostly footwork for polearm is press s and swing.  Basically "footwork" for those 2 classes  means inducing the other player to make a mistake.  For 1 handers "footwork" means closing to combat range, inducing other player to make mistakes and then moving carfully so that their hits count.


Why should 1 handers be the only class that has to use footwork to not only induce mistakes in the opposition but also so that their hits count?

P.S

Like Froto said I have been around the block awhile, played every class possible for at least several gens.  And by far the most frustrating  melee class is 1 hand.  And if you really want to feel pain try 1 hand no shield. 
 
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Molly on August 07, 2012, 08:07:48 am
1h w/o shield is the most fun I ever had in this game. For the 3rd gen now... although I kinda suck but that's mostly not class-related anyway.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Skrubb on August 07, 2012, 08:26:57 am
Try using better footwork.

The Bread and Butter of 1h is gettin those hits to the head. Boom Boom Boom knock em all out.

Hahaha
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Matey on August 07, 2012, 08:32:33 am
you dont get to talk skrubbin! you been s keying with long voulge and kicking poor 1handers. go die in a fire!
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Skrubb on August 07, 2012, 08:46:48 am
you dont get to talk skrubbin! you been s keying with long voulge and kicking poor 1handers. go die in a fire!

I SHALL KICK YOU

SPAAAAATAAAAA
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: dreadnok on August 07, 2012, 08:47:17 am
(click to show/hide)

1h seems fine to me. Unless someone's going to say it doesn't count because I use a military cleaver.

Also to show off my e-peen.


scores dont mean shit tho bud.  i just want my overheads to stop ghosting thru people. and hitting alsoi hitting my teamte 40 yards to the left
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Molly on August 07, 2012, 08:48:55 am
scores dont mean shit tho bud.
Esspecially on NA they don't...  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Taser on August 07, 2012, 08:52:14 am

scores dont mean shit tho bud.  i just want my overheads to stop ghosting thru people. and hitting alsoi hitting my teamte 40 yards to the left

I understand but people are complaining 1h only has one real attack direction. I put that up to say differently. Tis all. I love using overheads as well as the left attack. Right attack has its place too.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Molly on August 07, 2012, 10:02:47 am
You can surprise a lot of people with the reach of the right swing on 100+ length 1h swords :) It's close to a free hit.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Matey on August 07, 2012, 10:16:04 am
You can surprise a lot of people with the reach of the right swing on 100+ length 1h swords :) It's close to a free hit.

except when people just backstep out of it and hit you in the face with their longer weapon.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Teeth on August 07, 2012, 11:22:24 am
Turnrate nerf forced me to leftswing like the rest of the scrubs, instead of using the overhead which I loved.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Mlekce on August 07, 2012, 12:17:34 pm
I'm probably in the minority, but overall 1h is fine.


I stopped reading here.
Renegat is right,they wanted to nerf 2h but then nerfed 1h. And 2h can still do spinning stuff,helicoptering if they are good enough.
With overhead there is 60% chance to miss target unless you are attacking while standing still or target is not moving.
Stab works realy rare,but you cant stab anyone from close range,but spears and pikes can.  :rolleyes:
when that happend i rage quit.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Molly on August 07, 2012, 12:55:45 pm
except when people just backstep out of it and hit you in the face with their longer weapon.
They don't because they think my lousy 1h isn't long enough to reach them in the first place. I get the hit and they stop running for a second, wondering what just happened.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: EyeBeat on August 07, 2012, 02:07:12 pm
The problem was they were trying to nerf 2h and polearm but instead nerfed 1h worse.

The fact they still have not reverted the over head change to 1h is beyond me.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: rustyspoon on August 07, 2012, 03:03:49 pm
I stopped reading here.
Renegat is right,they wanted to nerf 2h but then nerfed 1h. And 2h can still do spinning stuff,helicoptering if they are good enough.
With overhead there is 60% chance to miss target unless you are attacking while standing still or target is not moving.
Stab works realy rare,but you cant stab anyone from close range,but spears and pikes can.  :rolleyes:
when that happend i rage quit.

People are having trouble landing overheads 'cause they're still trying to do it the old way. By using a combination of movement keys and turning it's terribly easy to reliably land overheads. Overheads still aren't as good as left and right swings, but they never were. They're still a good way to get someone by surprise and land a hit that does extra damage.

The new stab is fantastic and people that are having trouble are still trying to stab like they used to. It's so easy to get a stab at close range now that I use it to double hit people all the time. I left swing while moving right and instantly go for the stab. Most people never even see it coming.

If you really want to get good at the new stab, go 15/24 1h no shield. Don't wear armor and get yourself a plain old Espada. A 30 pierce held attack + speed bonus straight to the face REALLY does some damage.

I also see a lot of people complaining about 2-handers. 2-handers are the EASIEST to beat as a shielder. Since I don't stack str, I'm faster than they are. They will also never break my shield with their sword, so I'm basically invulnerable from the front. If they go for kicks, I go for stabs. All of my attacks are also faster than theirs.

2-handers have good all-around animations, but nothing is really fantastic.

1-handers have the best attack animation in the game: the left swing. Add to that a right swing that always catches people by surprise and a really quick thrust that you can do from close range and you can tear up some 2-handers.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: EyeBeat on August 07, 2012, 03:18:31 pm
Yeah I disagree with you.  They really went over board on the overhead nerf.

It was a challenge to land it before.  Now it is even more of a challenge.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: rustyspoon on August 07, 2012, 04:21:17 pm
Yeah I disagree with you.  They really went over board on the overhead nerf.

It was a challenge to land it before.  Now it is even more of a challenge.

You also only have 5 athletics, so your acceleration and speed is pretty slow. The nerf was more of a nerf to people with lower athletics. It's pretty easy to position yourself well with higher athletics.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 04:31:46 pm
No matter your athletics, good players see you begin to execute an overhead, and they just jump to either side and attack. Because of the turn rate limit, you can't track them during the swing, so you will get hit.

This is less of an issue with 2h/pole, because at a greater distance, a slower turn rate is required to track your target. The devs were trying to curtail spin thrusts/overheads for 2h and pikes, but it hurts 1h more than anyone else.

It's one line of code to make the turn rate limit a function of the weapon's moment of inertia, and almost everyone would agree this would be both realistic and balanced.

Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: rustyspoon on August 07, 2012, 04:37:16 pm
No matter your athletics, good players see you begin to execute an overhead, and they just jump to either side and attack. Because of the turn rate limit, you can't track them during the swing, so you will get hit.

This is less of an issue with 2h/pole, because at a greater distance, a slower turn rate is required to track your target. The devs were trying to curtail spin thrusts/overheads for 2h and pikes, but it hurts 1h more than anyone else.

It's one line of code to make the turn rate limit a function of the weapon's moment of inertia, and almost everyone would agree this would be both realistic and balanced.

Devs have already said they aren't going to change it, so may as well adapt.

If you are moving while you are winding up your attack, people generally don't see it coming, especially if you are moving around their side. Also they can jump all they want, I can still get to where they will be before them and hit them anyway.

Personally, I like that it's more skill-based now instead of who can turn their mouse the fastest.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 04:55:13 pm
Well, I do like that overheads are so rare now that they surprise people. I was watching Onimaho play the other day, and I think he overheads with that Nordic War more now than ever, and he was wrecking everyone as usual.




Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Turboflex on August 07, 2012, 04:57:34 pm
1h overhead was a mediocre, situational attack, in no way overpowered. There was really no reason to make it slower (forcing you to lineup before swing) and even more situational.

It's not a huge nerf to 1h, cuz we can compensate by leaning more on other swings, but it's just annoying that the class was made less fun by removing diversity of attacks. You can't be as artistic, more limited in combos, instead being 1h is more plodding.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on August 07, 2012, 05:09:26 pm
Meh, 1h is fine, Ive spent a couple gens as 1h and never had problems using 5 powerstrike with them. Its how you use it that matters. 5ps + speedbonus + headslash does devastating amounts of damage to anyone, regardless of head armour.

Only thing I dislike about 1h, is the shitty stab, it was bad before, but with the turnspeed nerf, its actually unusable. It also made me respecc from 1h, because spinstabbing was my favourite thing as a 1h, because noone expected it from you...  :cry:

Stop 1h from being affected by turnspeed limtations, is enough of a buff for me.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 07, 2012, 05:12:15 pm
Meh, 1h is fine, Ive spent a couple gens as 1h and never had problems using 5 powerstrike with them. Its how you use it that matters. 5ps + speedbonus + headslash does devastating amounts of damage to anyone, regardless of head armour.

Only thing I dislike about 1h, is the shitty stab, it was bad before, but with the turnspeed nerf, its actually unusable. It also made me respecc from 1h, because spinstabbing was my favourite thing as a 1h, because noone expected it from you...  :cry:

Stop 1h from being affected by turnspeed limtations, is enough of a buff for me.

Just turn with the A and D keys instead of the mouse.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Michael on August 07, 2012, 05:50:35 pm
1 Hand needs a fix, with  6ps a 32 cut weapon i bounced off naked flesh, the dude was wearing no armour and I bounced right off.  1 Hand suffers from some really stupid bounces, not to meantion its underpowred and armour seems to be getting heavier and heaviers. Can we at least fix the bounces.

My guy has 8 power strike, 140 wpf in 1h, wears no armor and even if I manage to put all the speed into I can get with my 5 athletics, the stab with long espada eslavona is totally useless when the opponent wears 40 or more body armor, what practically every noobist (= 2h/ pole) does.

I understand that  there needs to be some easy-mode class for all the not so skilled players among crpg folks, but whats the point of a sword when all you can do is hope that your 2h/pole swinging opponent misses s-key and falls 5 times in a row for a feint and backhand-swing?
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: El_Infante on August 07, 2012, 07:06:31 pm
El_Infante guide to block onehanders.
First attack: Block left 100% success
Second attack: Block left 100% success
Third attack: Block overhead 100% success
Profit.

It's retarded a class that only have 1 decent attack and another crappy one if things go bad. No. 1H is a overnerfed class. Low damage, low reach, low speed, skill points hungry. I played all of possible classes of cRPG and shielder is the most difficult to play with the less reward for mastering it.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 07:22:29 pm
El_Infante guide to block onehanders.
First attack: Block left 100% success
Second attack: Block left 100% success
Third attack: Block overhead 100% success
Profit.

It's retarded a class that only have 1 decent attack and another crappy one if things go bad. No. 1H is a overnerfed class. Low damage, low reach, low speed, skill points hungry. I played all of possible classes of cRPG and shielder is the most difficult to play with the less reward for mastering it.

Haha, so true. I try to always open with a right or overhead before I start the left spam for this reason, since everyone assumes you will open with left swing.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Mlekce on August 07, 2012, 07:50:10 pm
El_Infante guide to block onehanders.
First attack: Block left 100% success
Second attack: Block left 100% success
Third attack: Block overhead 100% success
Profit.

It's retarded a class that only have 1 decent attack and another crappy one if things go bad. No. 1H is a overnerfed class. Low damage, low reach, low speed, skill points hungry. I played all of possible classes of cRPG and shielder is the most difficult to play with the less reward for mastering it.

 :lol: True. No matter what you do every 2h will block your first hit,if you can't hit him after 3rd attack you better leave him alone.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Tzar on August 07, 2012, 08:17:01 pm
:lol: True. No matter what you do every 2h will block your first hit,if you can't hit him after 3rd attack you better leave him alone.

Damn those Manuel blockers huh  :?:  :lol:
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 07, 2012, 08:26:30 pm
El_Infante guide to block onehanders.
First attack: Block left 100% success
Second attack: Block left 100% success
Third attack: Block overhead 100% success
Profit.

It's retarded a class that only have 1 decent attack and another crappy one if things go bad. No. 1H is a overnerfed class. Low damage, low reach, low speed, skill points hungry. I played all of possible classes of cRPG and shielder is the most difficult to play with the less reward for mastering it.

Egan's guide to block twohanders.
First attack: right click to use shield
Second attack: right click to use shield
Third attack: right click to use shield
Profit.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Tzar on August 07, 2012, 08:31:38 pm
Inb4 scrub shielders demand 2h animations an crushrough weapons an call for more nerfs against their mighty oppressors the evil 2h´s
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 07, 2012, 08:33:20 pm
Please give 1hers 2h animations, they are so much worse then the 1h ones. (In terms of visibility, not bonus length)
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 08:38:00 pm
Egan's guide to block twohanders.

It takes about 5-9 attacks with a greatsword to break a typical shield, say an average of about 10 seconds. Which is why most 2h don't bother to bring an axe/morningstar sidearm just for shieldbreaking. Not that you need to even break the shield, just kick and block while you are kicking, no risk.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Tzar on August 07, 2012, 08:46:55 pm
It takes about 5-9 attacks with a greatsword to break a typical shield

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Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 08:53:53 pm
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I have 6 shield skill, and a +3 Heavy Round Shield. It takes 10-13 greatsword hits to break my shield. So about 5 extra seconds for my significant loom and skill point investment.

Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Tzar on August 07, 2012, 09:01:40 pm
It takes about 5-9 attacks with a greatsword to break a typical shield,
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on August 07, 2012, 09:06:42 pm
I have 6 shield skill, and a +3 Heavy Round Shield. It takes 10-13 greatsword hits to break my shield. So about 5 extra seconds for my significant loom and skill point investment.

Do you know how many hits it takes for my twohander to block an arrow?

Also maybe you should try not walking into kicks like an idiot.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 09:09:08 pm
+3 Danish (typical) w/ 8 Power Strike (typical) and 140 wpf (typical)
-vs-
Elite Cavalry Shield (one of the most popular shields) w/ 5 Shield Skill (typical)

=Takes an average of 5.85 held attacks to break, so 5 if any speed bonus is involved.

math>memes
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 09:11:15 pm
Do you know how many hits it takes for my twohander to block an arrow?
Also maybe you should try not walking into kicks like an idiot.

You can chamber arrows with any weapon. This shouldn't be any problem for you, since you are so pro you would never get kicked while using a short weapon.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on August 07, 2012, 09:14:42 pm
Just for comparison, anyone remember when the 2h stab had a very small delay after it, so you couldn't spam it or whatever? Everyone cried until it was reverted.

Now take a look at the 1h left swing when blocked.

And 1h is not just shielders.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Swaggart on August 07, 2012, 10:22:40 pm
You can chamber arrows with any weapon. This shouldn't be any problem for you, since you are so pro you would never get kicked while using a short weapon.

Are you seriously equating blocking an arrow with a shield with chambering an arrow with a weapon?

Shielders need to understand that if they were as effective in damage dealing as polearms and 2H (or any class that can't use a shield), there would be no point in going polearms or 2H. Shielders gain immense defensive ability in exchange for damage dealt. More tank, less spank.

On my shielder alt, I have had a danish smack my elite cav shield (5 shield skill) more than 5 times before my shield broke. Actual gameplay > theory math.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Phew on August 07, 2012, 10:38:02 pm
Are you seriously equating blocking an arrow with a shield with chambering an arrow with a weapon?

Shielders need to understand that if they were as effective in damage dealing as polearms and 2H (or any class that can't use a shield), there would be no point in going polearms or 2H. Shielders gain immense defensive ability in exchange for damage dealt.

I was equating avoiding getting kicked while wielding a short 1-hander to chambering arrows. Since Egan is apparently so l33t he can do the former, obviously he can pull off the latter with regularity. I should know better than to attempt sarcasm on the internet.

Other than maybe a slight tweak for 1h swords, no one is really asking for more damage. 1-handers just want more than one attack direction that isn't saddled with crippling flaws (high glance rate, huge delay, small sweetspot, etc).
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Swaggart on August 07, 2012, 10:40:40 pm
Actually what Egan said makes sense. I've lost count how many times I've kicked a shielder because they charged straight at me, holding their shield up. It's not even difficult to kick someone when they do that.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Tzar on August 07, 2012, 10:47:18 pm
Try stabbing if you know you going up a decent kicker worked for me when i was a shielder.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Corsair831 on August 08, 2012, 12:43:53 am
I play almost exclusively 1h / shield

Blunt and Piercing dmg are fine, the problem is cut dmg on most of the swords are too low. Some swords are fine tho but most of them are underpowered. Not a single sword behave the same way you can look at stats all day long and on paper sword have good stats but when you start using the weapon you notice that some sword you cannot use the right swing cause its bugged, overhead swing is not reliable and left swing is predictable vs almost anyone that know how to play the game.

Axe have very high cut dmg compare to swords , have same or higher speed and destroy shields, so i dont see why some swords shouldnt get a slight cut damage buff.

axes are freaking tiny, as well as easy to see and slower.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Vodner on August 08, 2012, 01:08:05 am
Try stabbing if you know you going up a decent kicker worked for me when i was a shielder.
I did this quite a lot prior to the turn speed nerf, but at the moment stabbing an opponent with higher ath is a substantial risk. You now need enough ath to control range to ensure it doesn't glance. Before, you could spin the stab at fairly close range to ensure a clean hit, regardless of the ath difference.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Dan lol on August 08, 2012, 01:10:57 am
furthermore, to get the stab off chances are you will have to be much closer to square in front of the kicker and therefore getting das boot
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Teeth on August 08, 2012, 02:42:37 am
Try stabbing if you know you going up a decent kicker worked for me when i was a shielder.
Yeah thats what I thought when fighting Hearst, he didn't give a shit and blocked all my stabs while kicking. Most good players can block stabs while kicking.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Tzar on August 08, 2012, 02:50:52 am
Yeah thats what I thought when fighting Hearst, he didn't give a shit and blocked all my stabs while kicking. Most good players can block stabs while kicking.

Hearst is not human
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Gurnisson on August 08, 2012, 04:27:52 am
Yeah thats what I thought when fighting Hearst, he didn't give a shit and blocked all my stabs while kicking. Most good players can block stabs while kicking.

You attacked after seeing him kick? If so, that's too late, you need to anticipate (or rather bait) the kick to hit. The timeframe where a kicker can't block down is quite short. You probably stabbed before or/and after that period of vulnerability.

Anyway, let's hope they introduce no blocking while kicking like cmp talked about. Hearst is just spamming kicks and make the most of it when it hits. It's not like he hit many, compared to how many he tries.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: wanteds on August 08, 2012, 04:35:07 am
Anyway, let's hope they introduce no blocking while kicking like cmp talked about. Hearst is just spamming kicks and make the most of it when it hits. It's not like he hit many, compared to how many he tries.

what what? no block while kicking? shit, then they may remove kicking all together, and with that many duelers. all builds which are not agi builds will become useless. duels will become utterly boring and I want to add on top of that:

FUCK NO
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Gurnisson on August 08, 2012, 04:41:09 am
If you're a good kicker you won't care, except the (few) times you miss. As of now, spamming kicks hasn't got the downside it should have, considering the fact that you'll get a free hit when you nail the kick (not to mention it's easy to do a headhit after a kick)

It would punish people spamming kicks like retards but help the ones that time them right (remember that cmp mentioned somewhat increased range and even some turning added!)
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: wanteds on August 08, 2012, 04:49:41 am
I don't know, why fix something that isn't broken?
To land a kick is not easy, it requires lots of practice to get the hang of it, and it's the only thing 2h/polearm  players have against the 1h facehug left swing spammers.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Gurnisson on August 08, 2012, 05:14:23 am
I don't know, why fix something that isn't broken?

Getting a free hit (which is easily made a headhit for extra damage) with almost no risk at all is not broken? How come?
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: wanteds on August 08, 2012, 05:17:12 am
Why nobody uses it then, except for a few, if its op?
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Matey on August 08, 2012, 12:02:09 pm
its ridiculously OP, not many people use it cause its sketchy in battle with lotsa people around so most people dont bother learning it. but on duel lotsa people do it, some of em with like 5% land rate, but so what? theres hardly any risk involved, even if you do get some stabs off on the guy kicking, you have to put your entire focus on stabbing lots in which case they can just stop kicking and either try to get you to glance on a stab (which isnt that hard) or if they are good at chambering, they can chamber your stab which stuns you long enough that you cant block the incoming hit. so yeah, kicking is an issue.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: rustyspoon on August 08, 2012, 02:19:25 pm
its ridiculously OP, not many people use it cause its sketchy in battle with lotsa people around so most people dont bother learning it. but on duel lotsa people do it, some of em with like 5% land rate, but so what? theres hardly any risk involved, even if you do get some stabs off on the guy kicking, you have to put your entire focus on stabbing lots in which case they can just stop kicking and either try to get you to glance on a stab (which isnt that hard) or if they are good at chambering, they can chamber your stab which stuns you long enough that you cant block the incoming hit. so yeah, kicking is an issue.

He also said apart from removing the block he's going to increase the RANGE of kicks. That's a bad, bad idea and will make the kicking problem even worse.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Shieldoom on August 08, 2012, 03:13:15 pm
Use Military cleaver and don't QQ
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: bukva2 on August 08, 2012, 03:26:17 pm
OT of kicking...can you hurt someone while he kicks by hitting the leg? Since the leg is closer to your swing than his/her blocking weapon
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Teeth on August 08, 2012, 03:38:30 pm
You attacked after seeing him kick? If so, that's too late, you need to anticipate (or rather bait) the kick to hit. The timeframe where a kicker can't block down is quite short. You probably stabbed before or/and after that period of vulnerability.

Anyway, let's hope they introduce no blocking while kicking like cmp talked about. Hearst is just spamming kicks and make the most of it when it hits. It's not like he hit many, compared to how many he tries.
No, I can see his kicks coming all the time, sadly that has no use cause it doesn't help me. He blocks stabs during the entire kick animation, just like so many others do these days. Which makes me completely unable to fight kickers. There is no such thing as a period of vulnerability if you block down before you do the kick.

And it doesn't matter even if he would hit 1 out of a 100, I can't harm him even when he misses, he has pretty good accuracy actually. And the one that does hit gives me a slightly held hit to the face that takes 60-90% of my hp.

If I don't facehug I never hit him, cause well, the 1h right swing is not all that fast. He tries to fight on range, chambering stabs barely works anymore cause overheads are shit to aim. If I facehug, where my animations can actually confuse him quite easily, I'll get kicked and 1 or 2 hit. Hearst is one of those players that I am unable to beat solely because of the OP-ness of kicks, combined with backpedalling and a long weapon. Same goes for TM.
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Fartface on August 08, 2012, 03:42:37 pm
No, I can see his kicks coming all the time, sadly that has no use cause it doesn't help me. He blocks stabs during the entire kick animation, just like so many others do these days. Which makes me completely unable to fight kickers. There is no such thing as a period of vulnerability if you block down before you do the kick.

And it doesn't matter even if he would hit 1 out of a 100, I can't harm him even when he misses, he has pretty good accuracy actually. And the one that does hit gives me a slightly held hit to the face that takes 60-90% of my hp.

If I don't facehug I never hit him, cause well, the 1h right swing is not all that fast. He tries to fight on range, chambering stabs barely works anymore cause overheads are shit to aim. If I facehug, where my animations can actually confuse him quite easily, I'll get kicked and 1 or 2 hit. Hearst is one of those players that I am unable to beat solely because of the OP-ness of kicks, combined with backpedalling and a long weapon. Same goes for TM.
You just basically described my story with this aswel. With the exception that I always stack STR so I can always get lucky and 1 or 2 hit TM or Hearst but otherwise I got hardly any chance. It always results in a half an hour duel with them always having the upper hand and winning because I can´t avoid kickslashes all the damn time..
Title: Re: 1 hand needs a fix.
Post by: Turboflex on August 08, 2012, 04:10:13 pm
Gotta make yourself hard to kick by using unpredictable movements, change your lateral direction frequently, move back and forth a lot, and change your attack patterns in general a lot (switch up between holds, feints and fast blows). This is something every shielder should be doing anyways to get kills, altho unfortunately it does give my spearmen fits when I am moving like this when they're trying to support me, so I gotta change it up in formation.

I rarely have kicks land on me, and if someone surprises me the first time I'll be extra shifty after. Them being able to block is annoying so I'm glad that's getting fixed, but even with blocks I can often get around their shoulder during the second they are immobile and get a hit off.

Maybe more people kick on EU tho, cuz there aren't many really good and consistent kickers on NA battle (maybe duel is different?). All I can really think of is LUBU.