It's long been known 2hands have a better animations giving them a subtle speed bonus. Your polearm has better length use it!
imo 2h better for duels and 1 on 1 situations polearms=more battlefield variety of uses. Hope this helps!
What all of you miss, is:
you test by fighting with air. Test your weapons by fighting with opponent, by swing - block, swing - block.
You will see, how fast your weapon is. Oh, and you will NEVER get 100% accurate info about speed of your weapon, because there is something like stun in this game ;)
Anyone else find the fact that wpf makes such little difference in speed scary?
Scary? No.
Weird? Yes.
Problem is, that the patch Killed specialists. the +5 points in your Melee WPF is about 50 in a ranged type of weapon, or other.
Pure classes like me got nerfed like hell, while the SS/Huscarl/Throwing guys got buff because of this, plus the OP-ness of throwing and the Huscarl/SS combo, but that's another story.
WPF Should mean something, to make specialization viable.
There is simply no other attack in this game that matches the lolstab.There is, Torp. Throwing lance with 13 PT. Srsly, I have screens of guy who was great at throwing lances enought to have 5 kills with 5 throws.
polearms.. slightly easier then 2h.
numbers.. basically you are looking for the placebo effect.
No hafted blades and glaives and knobbed maces and elegant poleaxes are pure spamming material faster than almost all swords. You are just using wrong polearms. They are faster longer, polearm stun, hit harder, pretty much every advantage except whiff in close quarters against walls.
how is it "slightly easier"? I've done a 2h before and the only reason why i didn't like it was because i had to do a dance around shielders. This was before i realized that i can run away from shielders and aviod those situations. Other than that, polearms are inferior to 2h in everything except for specialty weapons and variety.All the good pole axes, i.e. elegant, great axe on a stick, poleaxe, are not unbalanced.
All the good pole axes, i.e. elegant, great axe on a stick, poleaxe, are not unbalanced.
The only 2h anti-shield that is not unbalanced is fighting axe. Oh you want to avoid them? why? who are you actually going to fight then?
I really could not tell you what the numbers mean, they bear no real relationship to comparing the weapons by using them.
I find polearms block better, 2h feignt better.
What does balance matter when you can just get an extra axe on your back to break shields then switch to swords? I find the great axe to be equal to the Axes in the 2h, even though they are unbalanced. I've actually managed to kill people in similar amounts with my sarranid battle axe compared to my great axe, even though my GLA is suppose to be faster and balanced.It matters a lot to people who don't want to carry a lot of well, baggage.
I never used the axes as secondary because i was a cheapo when i did my 2h build, because i had no money. Now that i'm caking i don't care much for money so i can actually afford to be strategic rather than simply cheap.
Anyways, this isn't a whine thread. Its a legitimate concern, and frankly the fact that there are two different standards in speed ratings means that polearms are only given a fake sense of equality in speed compared to 2H. Its decieving and should really be addressed in some manner. If something told me that polearms are noticably slower than 2H, irregardless of speed rating, i would have not made this post.
How do you not get the last paragraph? It is pretty much a summary of what this thread is about.Your last sentence totally confuses me.
Your last sentence totally confuses me.replace post with thread, i'll make the edit.
btw I just fought Givi_the_swords_man he was using a 2x long sword in 2 hands. I was using a 3x long hafted blade. He has 140 WPF in 2h & 15 Agi. I have 139 WPF in pole & 12 agi. Givi trys to overhead me. I chamber it and before my weapon can even come down on his head he blocked it. That sir is fucking bs to me.
Not coming in here to whine, just pointing out the forgotten fact that 2handers really do get an animation increase to speed, (you'll have to check the Warband Bug Tracker, I cba at the moment), and polearms really do get a decrease in length (again it's in the bug tracker somewhere). Both things have been noted, and responded too as "working as intended" or "would break the game to fix".
Polearms like the bardiches, glaive, hafted baldes actually ahve some extra invisible range because of the curved part of the blade so they actually extend farther than the given range.
So would setting the coliders to better match the meshes be a good thing?
The mesh does not determine what a weapon will hit. You can set some of the Native weapon to 1000+ length if you would like to test this yourself.
Polearms like the bardiches, glaive, hafted baldes actually ahve some extra invisible range because of the curved part of the blade so they actually extend farther than the given range.
Not coming in here to whine, just pointing out the forgotten fact that 2handers really do get an animation increase to speed, (you'll have to check the Warband Bug Tracker, I cba at the moment), and polearms really do get a decrease in length (again it's in the bug tracker somewhere). Both things have been noted, and responded too as "working as intended" or "would break the game to fix".
I like how everyone conveniently forgot that 2 handers have a secret speed bonus from their listed speed of +5 due to animations. It is well known quirk of the engine, and is not really up to debate.
I bought a Bamboo Spear and a Shortened Military Scythe (90 speed weapons) and did overheads for 60 seconds with each of them; they had the same number of completed attacks. Afterwards I bought a Two Handed War Axe (95 speed) and did overheads for 60 seconds; it completed more attacks than the two 90 speed weapons. All in-game variables were constant.
Constant if you want them to be. Its hard to test this with overheads by yourself since you might not be releasing it on the same moment. Some hidden bias might creep in since you seem to have a foregone conclusion that values are constant, although the effect is easier to see with side swings.
This is really not up for bringing up personal anecdotes. As kophka pointed out, it is a well known bug/feature.
That being said, there are a lot of people who are not aware of these bugs/features, as can be seen in this thread. Or in balance threads where we can see people completly forgetting the very obvious -22 length nerf on polearms to justify some broken stats, usually on 2 hands.
I find it strange that I can out spam people on Nanna archer with a 2h (0 WPF) it takes 2-3 hits to kill someone with my longsword and 5-6 arrows (not headshots) to do the same job and I am a archer a agi archer with low PD but still... its strange
but weapon swing speed control animation speed of the RIGHT HAND
So polearms have much faster speeds than those shown, and the 2h also have this, but I think both 2h and polearms need a huge speed nerf, at least the 2h longer than Longsword. Historically, Longsword was the most effecient and best of all swords used in medieval combat. Note that historically, the longsword is anything sword longer than a broadsword but short enough that it could still be used in 1h if nescesary.
Realistically, the swing speeds listed for polearms and 2h is a joke. Physics of weapon length applied to the speed of the hand have the weapon "tips" travelling muchmuch faster.
There is limited options now to make weapons act like their models, since the ARE all just stick shaped hit meshes. Giving axes and bardiches their blades would make them deadly, but also all "axes" would need a much lower blunt dmg mesh for all hit with the staff of the weapon....2h swords, at least the longest ones, are currently swung at wrist breaking speed aswell, add WPF boni in there....
That's because the in-game values were constant. (same AGI, same WPF, same STR, same armor on, same weather, same everything.) It's not terribly difficult to test whether or not a particular weapon speed is faster than another, just map a key to the attack function; if you're curious about my times, they were 50 attacks for the 90 speed weapons and 53.5 attacks for the 95 speed two-hander that I used. Now if the "two-handers get +5 speed from animations" theory was correct, wouldn't the 90-speed two-handed weapon be faster than the 90 speed polearm? Or are you saying that it doesn't affect overheads?
Just like one point of Agility giving +0.5% increased attack speed, that was a well-known feature; except it was completely false. You can even look in the bug tracker where they fixed the tooltip.
It's always been my understanding that there's no 'master penalty' for polearms just because of how it's gripped; the weapon length penalty (or bonus, in the case of the polearm thrust) is specific to the animation.
Edit: Fixed typo.
Second Edit: After using a Maul and War Axe (86 speed weapons) in each attack direction for 60 seconds, three times for consistency, I came up with: 48 attacks in each direction, every time.
So are you saying, sometime recently this +5 stealth speed bonus to 2h was removed?
Testing speeds is a lot harder, since the whole spinning mouse thingy may have an effect afaik.
Secondly, as much as I would prefer WYSIWYYG, the stats are definately not WYSIWYG like you are claiming (constants are consistent across classes).
Testing speed is a lot harder than how many attacks per minute.
If only that old forum post did not disappear, because it was proven, confirmed without a doubt that 2 h had hidden speed bonus.