Would be a shame to lose the arrow stun completely mostly because of it's impact in supporting teammates in melee
Still interrupts a swing like all melee hits. It just doesn't have the "stagger" effect. Maybe I wasn't clear enough - don't want it to be "it doesn't even interrupt my swing anymore".
Longbow is 34 cut atm.
Archery without stun will look pretty dumb, and the heavier arrows\bow thing will draw archers away from armor more. an archer that can't run at least as much as inf will be left behind and get killed.
agree with all except the need for more 1slot weapons (maybe 0 slot because I don't know). There's a shit ton of 1 slots in the game already. if you're talking about 2h's with 1 slot, i don't think there should even be any 2h WPF's that use 1 slot weapons...just the fact you can drop the (already good) 2h mace, and pick up a great sword, is a huge advantage over people who use 1h 1slot weapons.
Pikes lost it, so I don't see why arrows should keep it.As I see it Pikes (and all poles) lost it because it gave the piker himself a free second hit. Archers don't get that hit for themselves but only for teammates.
As I see it Pikes (and all poles) lost it because it gave the piker himself a free second hit. Archers don't get that hit for themselves but only for teammates.
Depends on an archer. They get that second hit if they use fast (horn) bow.
Still interrupts a swing like all melee hits. It just doesn't have the "stagger" effect. Maybe I wasn't clear enough - don't want it to be "it doesn't even interrupt my swing anymore".
Buffs:
+ archers can wear up to 15 heavy armor (allows them to wear those beatiful new armors and helmets) Gladly accepted. But helmets x3.
+ buff to all bows +2 damage Why ?
+ buff to all arrows +1 damage (even bodkins) Why ?
+ buff to weapons they can choose from (more 1 slot and 0 slot weapons please)
(optional) some way to give them a bit of free PS Not needed.
+ 5 to bow speed when masterworked (now is +3) So a +2 bow speed for NORMAL bow ? Or a final +5 after three heirlooms ?
+ 5 to missile speed when masterworked (now is +3) So a +2 missile speed for NORMAL bow ? Or a final +5 after three heirlooms ?
+ more arrows when loomed to +3 (bodkins +5 instead of current +2, tatar +6 instead dof +2, barbed +8, arrows +10) Not specially needed. But since you want to increase the weight of the quivers, it's indeed needed. Wil buff the 2 slot bows who used one quiver and 1 slot weapon, since the 1 slot horn bow usually never runs out of 2 quivers.
The problem i see here is mainly the accuracy, wich will drop, as Gurnisson said already.
Also, the arrow stun is long enough to give a melee who was blocking, the time to realize his opponent was hit by an arrow and then suddenly release an attack.
I wouldn't mind if the extra stun timer was removed for infantry. But we need it against cavalry, else they can still effectively lance people. Also... my build is a low damage stagger build, with an horn bow. Basically, with this change, you just want archers to be more effectives than supports. And then what's the point of using an horn bow over a rusbow ?
The +5 bow speed is a bigger buff for longbow, than it is for all others. So it's a small nerf for the bow still used with the more initial bow speed : aka, the 4 PD Tatar bow, then the 5 PD horn bow.
Horn bow user didn't care much about damage, but was all about staggering, accuracy and spamming. If you give the same number to ALL bows, then it will break the little balance we have between bows.
Finally, in all this, it's just a BIG buff for HA :
-more damage
-more missile and bow speed
-don't care about the weight of the bow and arrows, BUT can hunt more effectively SLOWER foot archers.
-No arrow stun, but still bump stun. And the arrow damage will still stagger the target before bumping it, so no problem.
-less accuracy : doesn't matter for point blank shots.
-Turnspeed nerf : there's the horse's turnspeed already, so it's not an important matter.
And i don't think HA needs any buffs. The simple fact that they can use bodkin arrows makes them already dangerous enough. And they don't have to worry about tunnel vision, since they're always on the moved, and they care less about cavalry since they can dehorsed them effectively.
Also, Leshma forgot the central element of the archery rebalance. Smoothing the effect of wpf to increase the stats of low wpf archers and decrease that of high wpf archers compared to current values. I think archery wpf should work like melee wpf, 120 being enough to do ok. That would encourage hybrids, especially if high wpf levels have more diminishing returns.
Second reason is that I'm probably putting more effort and thought into balancing issues than actual balancers of this mod.Obviously. We don't even have an item balance team, just an item unbalance one.
Now, most "relatively" good archers at blocking can kill some shielders, or hold their ground. It's blocking skill, but unlike a plated tincan, a 7 athletic archer is pretty hard to crushthrough or sidestep, or whatever.
If you give them even stronger side weapons, i fear they'll become too good in melee. Able to pwn anyone in range, and able to pwn most people in melee. You have to make a choice, and the current one is good
120 is very low, both for melee and archery. No one thinks about active wpf. 160 should be the limit, things get a bit out of control above that (especially for archers).
It's a scientifically proven fact that wearing full plate results in getting shot by archers less often. Your chances of getting shot decrease exponentially as your armor values increase.
Indeed, I recently started lvling an alt and it has rekindled my utter hatred and contempt for ranged. Wearing peasant clothes might as well be a big neon saying the words "shoot me" to those worthless k/d padding fuckers.
Buffing damage decreases accuracy.
Then you find an actual archer who likes a challenge and knows how important is prioritizing on the battlefield, without caring about ego-meters (scoreboards), and your life as a tincan turns into hell. :rolleyes:This is admittedly why I love bringing two or three quivers of MW Standard Arrows, simply because of the stun and the ability to harass some poor person with stuns. Better then killing a half dozen players is seeing a tin can flinch every few seconds trying to do something :mrgreen:
Then again, arrows are not terribly accurate with the majority of the players and builds so I am not sure most people will notice. The low velocity of the arrows means long distance shooting is not really viable anyways against moving targets (not semi-campers, those are still targets).
Buffs:
+ 5 to missile speed when masterworked (now is +3)
Then you find an actual archer who likes a challenge and knows how important is prioritizing on the battlefield, without caring about ego-meters (scoreboards), and your life as a tincan turns into hell. :rolleyes:
Killing a moderate threat will help your team more than damaging a high one (numerical advantage...). But then again, peasants are not moderate threats.
I hate archers that focus horses.