Archery: baffs and narfs!

[Bulzur]

I'm totally against such a high headgear.

Also, 18/21 build doesn't mean 3 PS. It means 7 athletics and 3 PS, or 6 PS and 4 athletics. For example. It's a choice that has to be made.

Most "relatively" good archers can kill a veteran 2h before he comes in range. Okay, he didn't bought a shield. Now, most "relatively" good archers at blocking can kill some shielders, or hold their ground. It's blocking skill, but unlike a plated tincan, a 7 athletic archer is pretty hard to crushthrough or sidestep, or whatever.
If you give them even stronger side weapons, i fear they'll become too good in melee. Able to pwn anyone in range, and able to pwn most people in melee. You have to make a choice, and the current one is good :
-excellent at range, but low PS and no melee wpf.
-kinda hybrid : 18/18, or 15/21, with max PS, and who cares about wpf.
-super hybrid : Same as above, with 60 wpf in a melee category (yes, it's worth it, you're not useless in range, i tested it)

Also, yes, longbow deserves a buff. (speaking of the +5 speed bonus to all bows) But i don't believe rusbow needs a bigger buff than the horn bow. Also... excuse me if i'm wrong, but bagge has good scores with a rusbow. Haven't seen him with an horn bow for a LONG time. Secondly, he's always using MW bodkin arrows. Thirdly, he's most of the times well protected thanks to clanmates, allowing him to shoot 75% of the round. (hell, i even go and protect him when he's on my team)
So all the "ask Bagge about advice with Hornbow" is a bit overrated. Sorry.


When i finish my 20 crafting skills in construction material (thing taking 1 slots, costing more than 400 gold each round, so i have to use a cudgel as a side weapon to not go bankrupt, with only 20 Tatar arrows, for a fair number of fairly good arrows), i'll gladly show some people why Tenne "dislikes" me, why i like fighting Elmer, etc... But please stop comparing a 3 slot lv29 low gen archer-who-always-go-rambo's score with the almighty Bagge's. It's irrelevant, even though that's how you compare archer's skill at the moment. Thank you.

(click to show/hide)

Yes, i'm pissed.

My suggestion for balanced archers :

Hybrid is possible at the moment. Just make your 15 weight limit for archers WITH x3 helmet please, so they still have a disadvantage in melee (they'll die in one HS anyway, so Head Armor is only against melee). Add your 2 base damage bonus for unloomed bows if you like (but then take OFF one point damage bonus from heirlooms, and replace it with your +1 (and not +2) missile speed. (and no draw speed).
And give the poor longbow a +2 to his draw speed too.
And "reduce" the stun stagger if possible, else remove it completely, i don't mind.

That's all that's needed as buffs/nurffs as now.
(With of course the removal of jump shot)
Turning speed is necessary against cavs, and others, since, unlike melees, our animation starts from choosing an arrow from our quiver, so it's LONG. If your reduce turning speed, you give archer's tunnel vision, and indirectly buff HA. So no nerf turning speed.

[Leshma]

Nebun is using MW Horn bow and everything Russians use is slightly or a lot overpowered.

Now, most "relatively" good archers at blocking can kill some shielders, or hold their ground. It's blocking skill, but unlike a plated tincan, a 7 athletic archer is pretty hard to crushthrough or sidestep, or whatever.
If you give them even stronger side weapons, i fear they'll become too good in melee. Able to pwn anyone in range, and able to pwn most people in melee. You have to make a choice, and the current one is good

Those shielders who have trouble killing archers when they finally catch them are bad at this game and should improve if they want to be able to kill better players, no matter are they archers, xbowmen, cav or whatever class they are playing.

Same goes for "most people". Rock, paper, scissors is the best way to balance the game for average joe who might not be skilled enough to kill someone who has the same gear as him but hey, he's counter to something so he'll be able to deal with those who might be better players than (they are put in a wheelchair by devs). In single player games that's similar to highest difficulty where AI is dumb as always but he has everything better than you so he's made a bigger threat that way.

Strong hybrids means that you can't just be good in archery and be the best, you need to be good at melee also. That way best archers will be those who are skilled in different classes. That will lead to even higher difference between bad, average and awesome players. That's my idea all along, I'm not suggesting to please the average joe and ensure his fun by limiting the best players. Hell no, that's how console games are designed.

You disagree and that's fine. Neither of us are making the call. I still hope that devs will take what I'm saying here into consideration.

[Adamar]

120 is very low, both for melee and archery. No one thinks about active wpf. 160 should be the limit, things get a bit out of control above that (especially for archers).

The longbow needs more than 160 for sure, and it's still innacurate at long range.

[Torost]

Crpg is now very tuned to 1slotbows and kiting. I like my 2slotbow!

I would not cry if stun is removed/reduced from arrows, but would be nice if horses were somewhat affected. chance to rear, slowdown,change direction slightly. I use the visualstun animation to see if I hit or miss, no sound. Would make it harder tho if removed.

Fighting with 0slot hammer/hatchet is just silly , only use is for blocking and killing lowlevel peasants.
They are also very short,hitting destroyable objects ingame is hard.
Those that use the 0slotweapons do not have any points in PS or wpf in 1hand.

Have to hit armored opponent 10-15 times to kill, And die from taking 1-2 hits makes it very hard.
Make some of the short 1handweapons into 0slot. Shortsword/hammer/mace without a secondary mode.

Arrows are really expensive , they break all the time. Rolling 2x Bodkins is a hard golddrain. So most end up using 1x bodkins 1x regular arrows. Bow is the main weapon, having enough arrows is a priority. 15+15 is too few for the cost and dmg.
Really frustrating to pickup arrows. Since there are 4 types x 4 states 16 diffrent types. And picking up the wrong kind makes you drop your stack. Low arrowcount could be OK if it was easier to pickup used ones, like automatic pickup. Rewarding mobility over camping. Maybe make all arrows into plain arrows when used once, simulating wear and tear.

I would really like to tradeoff accuracy for more damage. Miss more, but sting hard when hit.
The natural thing is to aim for the torso, rewards for aiming for head or horses legs is frustrating.

Determined archerhunters are so frustrating,bypassing everything to catch an archer. like the agi-bucklers or assasins.

Had one night where you were hunting me Leshma, one round I hit with 3 outa 3 bodkin arrows from my MW rusbow in the short time it took you to close the gap. And even then you did not die. Loomed armor im guessing. And ofc you slayed me. GTX

Sorry for rambling

[TurmoilTom]

It's a scientifically proven fact that wearing full plate results in getting shot by archers less often. Your chances of getting shot decrease exponentially as your armor values increase.

[Adamar]

It's a scientifically proven fact that wearing full plate results in getting shot by archers less often. Your chances of getting shot decrease exponentially as your armor values increase.

True, in fact I'd rather switch to my mace than waste arrows on them.

[Oberyn]

Indeed, I recently started lvling an alt and it has rekindled my utter hatred and contempt for ranged. Wearing peasant clothes might as well be a big neon saying the words "shoot me" to those worthless k/d padding fuckers.

[Kafein]

Indeed, I recently started lvling an alt and it has rekindled my utter hatred and contempt for ranged. Wearing peasant clothes might as well be a big neon saying the words "shoot me" to those worthless k/d padding fuckers.

The optimal armors are those that look heavier than they are.

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And the worst are those that look lighter.

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[karasu]

Then you find an actual archer who likes a challenge and knows how important is prioritizing on the battlefield, without caring about ego-meters (scoreboards), and your life as a tincan turns into hell. 

[Tears of Destiny]

This all looks interesting, certainly, but the following quote is my concern.

Buffing damage decreases accuracy.

Then again, arrows are not terribly accurate with the majority of the players and builds so I am not sure most people will notice. The low velocity of the arrows means long distance shooting is not really viable anyways against moving targets (not semi-campers, those are still targets).

Then you find an actual archer who likes a challenge and knows how important is prioritizing on the battlefield, without caring about ego-meters (scoreboards), and your life as a tincan turns into hell. 

This is admittedly why I love bringing two or three quivers of MW Standard Arrows, simply because of the stun and the ability to harass some poor person with stuns. Better then killing a half dozen players is seeing a tin can flinch every few seconds trying to do something 

[Leshma]

Then again, arrows are not terribly accurate with the majority of the players and builds so I am not sure most people will notice. The low velocity of the arrows means long distance shooting is not really viable anyways against moving targets (not semi-campers, those are still targets).

Buffs:

+ 5 to missile speed when masterworked (now is +3)

Two points increase doesn't seem much at first glance but only 4 points is difference between Yumi and Rus bow and that's very noticeable. Also, difference between masterworked and normal bow is pretty big, if we only take missile speed into account (+3 modifier).

[Kafein]

Then you find an actual archer who likes a challenge and knows how important is prioritizing on the battlefield, without caring about ego-meters (scoreboards), and your life as a tincan turns into hell. 

I hate archers that focus horses.

It's even worse when they position themselves carefully, sometimes the whole team is protected with the coverage of one rus/long bow guy.

So it's probably one of the most battle-effective ways to play the class. But it's a fact one gets more projectiles and melee attacks with low armor. Besides, killing enemies is very important. Killing a moderate threat will help your team more than damaging a high one (numerical advantage...). But then again, peasants are not moderate threats.

[Bulzur]

Killing a moderate threat will help your team more than damaging a high one (numerical advantage...). But then again, peasants are not moderate threats.

All players in eu1New are level 21 or above, else they'de be on eu5lv21 or whatever.
I find all melee oriented in level 21 a moderate threat, and easy to kill if they're in light gear, facking peasantry.
So i shoot them.

There's NO real peasants on eu1 anymore. Only fake ones. None of thoses, bypassing upkeep, having more speed, will have my sympathy. Nor should they.

[Rumblood]

I hate archers that focus horses.

O Hai!

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