cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tomeusz on June 25, 2012, 04:24:52 pm

Title: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 25, 2012, 04:24:52 pm
Hi!
Ther is possibility that there will be any hit detection fix from crpg mods? Most weapon have outranged swings that kill people with not evet touching their bodies, cav has this imba "knock and stick" system on crpg that makes them even more imbalanced(you hit target with horse, it falls, and then stick on your spear, you might think its ok, but not when horse hits you right in front of you and  you are sticked not by a weapon is peak, but by hand of attacker, and it still counts hit).
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Rumblood on June 25, 2012, 04:27:05 pm
Is this a poll? I'm going with the "Bacon" option, as opposed to "Yes", or "No".
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Teeth on June 25, 2012, 04:33:57 pm
The man is right, when I chamber I mostly see the incoming weapon getting stopped a hand length in front of my blade instead of by the actual blade. I used to be able to chamber held swings of slow weapons, but you can no longer trust what you see, cause when my chamber hits the incoming weapon like it should, the chamber doesnt work. Its basically guessing when to chamber, cause it sure as hell is not the same as it normally was. Another funny thing is chambering stabs and the return swing being a left swing.

The game is horribly borked and I hope that some time will be spend in fixing that. Try playing native and notice the smoothness of feints and blocking, maybe all the scripts doing cool things is making regular combat suffer, which is a bad thing.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 25, 2012, 04:40:12 pm
Works perfectly fine for me, sound like the problem is on your side.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Teeth on June 25, 2012, 04:51:45 pm
Works perfectly fine for me, sound like the problem is on your side.
How much have you played in the last month?
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 25, 2012, 04:57:17 pm
Since the last couple patches (going back two weeks) I've also noticed the game is registering things I'm not doing.  Like swinging while I've only hit right click to block (and it shows me blocking, and then when my ghost swing is already mid-swing it shows me the animation), it never did this before, like literally never once happened, and now I'm seeing it quite often. 

Also when I am moving mouse in an obvious direction the game will show an animation in another direction, but I trust my instincts and sure enough if I down block and it shows a left block, I'm still able to block stabs (so I'm still clearly down blocking but the animation is fucked up).

I've also heard a lot of people on the forums and in game complaining about the exact same thing.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 25, 2012, 05:01:27 pm
How much have you played in the last month?

Enough.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Teeth on June 25, 2012, 05:02:48 pm
Enough.
I disagree.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 25, 2012, 05:42:11 pm
Well I'm noticing some weird server detection of what I'm doing, and I never had this happen before.

My computer specs:
8 GB DDR3 1600
Nvidia GTX 460 (1gb/256 GDDR5)
AMD Phenom II x4 3.4 GHZ
120 GB Solid State Hard drive

Network specs:

20ms from my location to Chicago, 15-20mb/s download, and 1.5-2mb/s upload.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: rebbrown on June 25, 2012, 05:53:53 pm
Works perfectly fine for me, sound like the problem is on your side.

It sure is considering I've been bump-stabbed over five times already in the last week. There's also loads of ghost-swings from horse-back where the sword comes nowhere close to you, but miraculously chops you in half.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: bosco on June 25, 2012, 05:54:01 pm
I disagree.

Feels like 1/4 blocks don't register either. At least on Siege.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Vkvkvk on June 25, 2012, 05:55:20 pm
Enough.

Either you don't play as much as you'd like you claim or you don't really look at the lenght of weapons when you fight.

Ghostreach while generally not big is still there, as a footwork lover, I find myself dancing just outside of reach of weapon's lenght, and by dancing just outside I literally mean about 1-2 cm from the tip. It usually leads to my death because I've been swung in the face by a gust of air displaced from the weapon's swing. Ghost reach is generally not huge outside of massive lag but that's to be expected, I just wish Devs would actually confirm that it's there.

Differentiating tipslashes and ghostreach might also be hard, some weapons have tips that are very hard to see such as the awlpike, they make for some pretty awesome ghostreach moments since the hitboxes are just long sticks that extends to the VERY end so even if you get stabbed by what is seemingly nothing, it's actually the ridiculously long tip of the awlpike that stabbed you 1mm deep for full damage. That's probably what happens the most, happens to me alot, I find it bullshit on curved weapons or anything with excessive tips like the morning star but we have to deal with it I guess.

Now there's also straight out ghost reach, they don't happen nearly as much as people let on or maybe they just can't differentiate properly from the tipslashes but they still happen, I've had swings that I was much further away than usual, something like 20cm and I would still drop dead to unknown forces.

About nonsense hit detection, I've had some weird lag ever since the new patch for one day(Only seem to have happened for one day in duel, the entire day was filled with hit detection mishaps and it fixed itself the next day though it still happens slightly but at a much lowered rate) people would start spinning because everyone feels the need to spin, slower spin speed or not and they were literally hitting me for full damage while facing their backs to me. No, it wasn't the backswing unless some freak 'roid ghostreach was going on in these backswings but I could get hit as much as 3 times in a row for full damage when they were facing their backs toward me, if shit like that can happen, I'm pretty sure more minor things like ghostreach can also happen.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Sarpton on June 25, 2012, 06:22:27 pm
I've been thinking EXACTLY this for DAYS.  I thought it was just me.  So glad to know its not.   


But if any of you are throwers you've probably noticed the weird hitboxs lately, such as axe model CLEARLY missing but then sprouting from the person in a random seeming location, or if you are on target the weapon simply going thru said person.  Happens to me all the time.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 25, 2012, 06:53:00 pm
Fix that hit and stick on cav or disable people pounching with horse, because at that way its fuking IMBA!(!) You get punch by horse, and killed by hand with weapon dmg. Damn bullshit:)
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: NuberT on June 25, 2012, 06:56:07 pm
I doubt hit detection is completely fixable anyway, its an online game and has some delay, which the engine (probably) trys to interpolate more or less good.

When you ever played counter strike source you know what I mean: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_WZD3s7FFg


about chambers: They definetly need some love, the turning limit makes most of chambered overheads and stabs useless as they wont hit if the guy keeps moving, this nerfs especially long maul, because chambering a stab with an overhead was like the only weapon against guys with longer weapons. For sideswings idk if its just me who fails regularly :)

Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 25, 2012, 07:01:57 pm
Give me a break. Cav is easiest to play, because its overpowered. This mod makes it even more OP, because of knocking to the ground. It would be fine, but with no this bullshit swings, hit detection or hit,stab, and run... .

And if its not enough for cav imba there is that huge, cov, armored horse. You can stuck it with 20 arrows and it never falls, but that horse needs just 3-4 hits on you to make you die(if u play archer). I know that thing its expansive, but i would pay huge money too for an exploding or firing arrows for my archer that overtakes everybody like that horse... .
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: bruce on June 25, 2012, 07:16:42 pm
Thought my crossbow started acting really funny a few weeks ago; thought it was some ranged bug or something due to, server software being changed/improved.

About "ghost reach" - ghost reach in the old sense of weapons being longer then the model - does not exist anymore. What may remain of ghost reach is lag / result of server dealing with non-instantaneous communication. Whether something in the recent server software changes impacted, well, I would say so but it might be just my imagination. I play on an antiquated machine so action is never perfectly smooth.

As for cav whines, wrong thread. There's a game balance section on forums.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 25, 2012, 08:07:52 pm
hehe, i just shooted straight at chasing guy, maybe 2 metre before me, no dodging, ofc shot missed and he wirelessly killed me by his swing of death:P
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Elmetiacos on June 25, 2012, 08:24:03 pm
There's always a danger with any mod for any game that you will eventually push the game beyond breaking point with more and more features. A friend of mine who's a Civ fan tells me there have been mods for Civ IV which have broken the game engine. I think perhaps cRPG has gone too far, first in trying to fix what (some) players have felt was wrong and second in adding new stuff. It's no good fixing stuff if the fix breaks something else. I don't think I've ever seen so many "phantom" attacks and blocks, with my sword harmlessly passing through enemies or enemies' attacks going straight through me doing nothing or straight through an obvious block to hit me. As the game engine is stretched, we also see more of the weirdness of the game's collision detection system exposed, which is why you can be killed by an enemy cavalry who seems to have already ridden past you.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: bosco on June 25, 2012, 08:28:52 pm
Thought my crossbow started acting really funny a few weeks ago; thought it was some ranged bug or something due to, server software being changed/improved.

Yup, on the Strat siege right now I saw my bolts enter enemy archer's chests - only to not register half of the time.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Mlekce on June 25, 2012, 08:35:13 pm
moust annoying thing ever i encounter in this mod are spearmen with shields that stab me every time from 1 cm distance,and fail 1h stab. Stab just go trough enemy body without dealing any dmg. -.-
Spearmen can still do stab away from body and then move it,and it will register as hit,but straight stab doesn't work. I hope u are gonna fix this.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 25, 2012, 08:58:51 pm
There's always a danger with any mod for any game that you will eventually push the game beyond breaking point with more and more features. A friend of mine who's a Civ fan tells me there have been mods for Civ IV which have broken the game engine. I think perhaps cRPG has gone too far, first in trying to fix what (some) players have felt was wrong and second in adding new stuff. It's no good fixing stuff if the fix breaks something else.

Tbh that sounds like generic talk from someone who doesn't know how a game engine works and is just speaking by hearsay.
"I heard if you put too many items in the Start menu it breaks, so you shouldn't put too many features in cRPG or it will break too."
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: HardRice on June 25, 2012, 09:10:12 pm
Same thing with me, even my kicks are phasing through people, chambers never work anymore, blocks don't register, etc.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Vicious666 on June 25, 2012, 09:12:42 pm
I disagree.

is he part of the vicious armada also mister CMP?
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Thomek on June 25, 2012, 09:16:09 pm
Works perfectly fine for me, sound like the problem is on your side.

Translated: Thanks for the generic input, we are aware of it and looking into it. Please post in the bug section.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 25, 2012, 09:18:25 pm
Translated: Thanks for the generic input, we are aware of it and looking into it. Please post in the bug section.

... and support us with donation for our great work:).
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Andswaru on June 25, 2012, 09:41:33 pm
I can confirm CMP manages enough playing time every week to be fully active in strat.  8-)
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Digglez on June 25, 2012, 11:11:23 pm
Works perfectly fine for me, sound like the problem is on your side.

Wrong, ever since you nerfed shield forcefield and changed original M&B weapon hitboxes with WSE, crazy ghost shit has been happening since.  I get people teleporting thru myself or shield on a regular basis, at least once very 10mins.  Overhead swings go right thru an enemy model that would have normally hit,  throwing axes phase thru an enemy model without registering hits.

There are other people noticing and complaining about this.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 25, 2012, 11:16:55 pm
Wrong, ever since you nerfed shield forcefield and changed original M&B weapon hitboxes with WSE

Since we never changed weapon hitboxes, I'm gonna stop right there.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Digglez on June 25, 2012, 11:18:04 pm
Since we never changed weapon hitboxes, I'm gonna stop right there.

you know full well WTF i'm talking about.  THE WSE change that allowed more collision for weapons: getting stuck in walls, spears into ground.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on June 25, 2012, 11:20:14 pm
So people who have never had animation problems, running on the newest generation hardware on large bandwidth networks, all simultaneously having issues for the last couple weeks are a coincidence?

I've been playing M&B since spring of 2009, and was in the beta for Warband and have been playing c-rpg for about 14 months, and I've never once (up until a couple weeks ago) had it where I right click to block, and my guy shows me blocking, and then all of a sudden my blocking animation goes away, and it shows my guy is already 70% through his swinging animation and hitting the enemy.

I mean every time it's happened I've hit the enemy (when I thought I was blocking) so it was like "cool", but then it's like, well not cool if this is happening to other people.  Maybe the blessings of chadz have been granted on me.

But hey since Digglez said something you can disagree with, it must mean there's no validity to the rest of his statement.

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Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Paul on June 25, 2012, 11:22:40 pm
you know full well WTF i'm talking about.  THE WSE change that allowed more collision for weapons: getting stuck in walls, spears into ground.

One of the best changes so far.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 25, 2012, 11:22:51 pm
you know full well WTF i'm talking about.  THE WSE change that allowed more collision for weapons: getting stuck in walls, spears into ground.

Ground collision: doesn't change hitboxes, it's just a flag change
Early object collision: doesn't change hitboxes, it just relaxes animation progress checks
Early teammate collision: doesn't change hitboxes, it just relaxes animation progress checks

Does any of those affect combat with enemies? Nope.

So people who have never had animation problems, running on the newest generation hardware on large bandwidth networks, all simultaneously having issues for the last couple weeks are a coincidence?

I seem to have missed the hundreds of posts from those people. Can you provide me the links, please?

But hey since Digglez said something you can disagree with, it must mean there's no validity to the rest of his statement.

There's nothing to disagree with, it wasn't an opinion.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Digglez on June 25, 2012, 11:24:30 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AIWodyQvq4

So explain why people (ENEMIES) are able to pass directly thru my shield & character model?  Notice how enemy is stopped if he tries to jump past, but if hes on the ground he can go right thru it.


We enjoy the mod ALOT, which is why we play it.  We want it to be the best it can be, we're merely informing you that there are signifcant bugs and would love if you can fix them.  Denial doesnt help.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Thomek on June 25, 2012, 11:25:37 pm
ok threads on fire right now!

Just to throw in a bucket of cold water.. Yes I play on a crappy comp with extremely dodgy wifi internet etc etc..

But cRPG doesn't feel as solid as it has been in the past to me neither.. Could be new textures causing performance loss on my side or something else, IDK..

I bet none of us players can tell the exact technical reason for this, but something seems to be up.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Vkvkvk on June 25, 2012, 11:34:54 pm
I bet none of us players can tell the exact technical reason for this, but something seems to be up.

Yup, couldn't tell you the technical reason for it, what I can tell you though is that it still happens and people have been vocal about ghostreach for easily more than a year at this point but some people just acts like that shit doesn't exists.

Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 25, 2012, 11:35:04 pm
So explain why people (ENEMIES) are able to pass directly thru my shield & character model?  Notice how enemy is stopped if he tries to jump past, but if hes on the ground he can go right thru it.

Because the shield forcefield is smaller. Make the shield forcefield smaller in Native, and you'll have the same result. Since we don't want to have huge shield forcefields, you're gonna have to live with that.
EDIT: wrong (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,34771.msg524802.html#msg524802)
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: XyNox on June 25, 2012, 11:39:10 pm
This thread gives me the impression everytime we report bugs devs ignore it because they think we are trying to bullshit them.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Digglez on June 25, 2012, 11:39:20 pm
Because the shield forcefield is smaller. Make the shield forcefield smaller in Native, and you'll have the same result. Since we don't want to have huge shield forcefields, you're gonna have to live with that.

Live with enemies walking thru my character model?  nice
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Thomek on June 25, 2012, 11:41:16 pm
Digglez your tone is awful..

he just explained that SHIELDS have smaller forcefield than their size suggests.. this has the added effect that people can sometimes sneak closer to them.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 25, 2012, 11:41:50 pm
Yup, couldn't tell you the technical reason for it, what I can tell you though is that it still happens and people have been vocal about ghostreach for easily more than a year at this point but some people just acts like that shit doesn't exists.

Because it doesn't. Ghost reach is when a weapon hitbox is longer than the visual model. If a weapon has ghost reach, it will be noticeable every time you attack.
What people call ghost reach is caused by client-server delays, server-client delays, and synchronization approximation. What you see looks like there's ghost reach, but what the server "sees" (and most other clients probably) is perfectly fine.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Christo on June 25, 2012, 11:43:34 pm
What people call ghost reach is caused by client-server delays, server-client delays, and synchronization approximation. What you see looks like there's ghost reach, but what the server "sees" (and most other clients probably) is perfectly fine.

Hey cmp, is there a way to fix this?

It drives me insane when I die because of it. And people don't believe you that it happened, and tell you to stop whining. Gah.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Thomek on June 25, 2012, 11:44:09 pm
Because it doesn't. Ghost reach is when a weapon hitbox is longer than the visual model. If a weapon has ghost reach, it will be noticeable every time you attack.
What people call ghost reach is caused by client-server delays, server-client delays, and synchronization approximation. What you see looks like there's ghost reach, but what the server "sees" (and most other clients probably) is perfectly fine.

Are there room for performance increases in this area? I mean.. not for us players, cause we want to continue to play on our crappy connections, but serverside?

(but yeah, had a great isp here in poland once.. never did so well in crpg.)
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: San on June 25, 2012, 11:45:30 pm
I haven't really noticed anything weird about the hitboxes that weren't already there (direction switch for swings/blocks, ghost reach, etc.). There are times where after an opponent blocks an attack, I block immediately after yet still get hit. That might be an issue on my end, though, and only happened around ~8 times in the past month of playing.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 25, 2012, 11:50:28 pm
Hey cmp, is there a way to fix this?

There is no definitive way to "fix" it, because technically it isn't even a bug. It can be tuned and masked by software (which we will continue to try improving), but in the end there'll always be a hardware/network factor.

Are there room for performance increases in this area? I mean.. not for us players, cause we want to continue to play on our crappy connections, but serverside?

Most of the time the cause is not serverside. Nonetheless, there are both clientside and serverside improvements planned. If it's caused by a slow/interleaved/noisy connection, there's nothing we can do about it.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Kafein on June 25, 2012, 11:53:50 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AIWodyQvq4

I don't know about shield forcefield, but what I see in this video is fucked up and got me killed more than it should *mad*
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 26, 2012, 12:01:46 am
Gave a look to the Warband code, it doesn't even care if you have a shield when checking for agent-agent collision.
Basically it's an engine quirk that has always been there, for some reason it got noticed only after the shield forcefield change, and the change got the blame.
Sigh.

This thread gives me the impression everytime we report bugs devs ignore it because they think we are trying to bullshit them.

I don't think you're trying to bullshit me, I think you are drawing conclusions based on insufficient evidence. See above in this very post.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Christo on June 26, 2012, 12:08:00 am
There is no definitive way to "fix" it, because technically it isn't even a bug. It can be tuned and masked by software (which we will continue to try improving), but in the end there'll always be a hardware/network factor.

Most of the time the cause is not serverside. Nonetheless, there are both clientside and serverside improvements planned. If it's caused by a slow/interleaved/noisy connection, there's nothing we can do about it.

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Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Kafein on June 26, 2012, 12:16:33 am
Gave a look to the Warband code, it doesn't even care if you have a shield when checking for agent-agent collision.
Basically it's an engine quirk that has always been there, for some reason it got noticed only after the shield forcefield change, and the change got the blame.
Sigh.

I don't think you're trying to bullshit me, I think you are drawing conclusions based on insufficient evidence. See above in this very post.

Well that's cool, but even in the absence of connection, the agent-agent collision is still fucked up and the forcefield nerf still has what I would call unwanted effects on non-round shields :P

Also for nitpicking, apart from the the thread's topic, I wasn't actually blaming any change
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 26, 2012, 12:25:00 am
You shooting targer standing 1 metre from you, full focus and arrow miss, but when guy chase you with 1h sword, swing have 3 metre reach, yeah thix is nothing about bugs, but internet connection... .
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 26, 2012, 12:31:46 am
Also for nitpicking, apart from the the thread's topic, I wasn't actually blaming any change

I was referring to Digglez.

I don't think you're trying to bullshit me, I think you are drawing conclusions based on insufficient evidence. See above in this very post.
You shooting targer standing 1 metre from you, full focus and arrow miss, but when guy chase you with 1h sword, swing have 3 metre reach, yeah thix is nothing about bugs, but internet connection... .

On the other hand, I think this one is trying to bullshit me. Protip: exaggerating heavily in bug reports is a really bad idea.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Havoco on June 26, 2012, 12:50:15 am
Because it doesn't. Ghost reach is when a weapon hitbox is longer than the visual model. If a weapon has ghost reach, it will be noticeable every time you attack.
What people call ghost reach is caused by client-server delays, server-client delays, and synchronization approximation. What you see looks like there's ghost reach, but what the server "sees" (and most other clients probably) is perfectly fine.

So how much does the additional weapons/armors/submods/patches contribute to this? I've also noticed a significant increase in the ghost projectiles for the past two years.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 26, 2012, 12:55:56 am
Ghost projectiles is an entirely different thing than ghost reach. I haven't looked into that well enough to draw a conclusion.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Minx on June 26, 2012, 12:59:06 am
Ghost projectiles is an entirely different thing than ghost reach. I haven't looked into that well enough to draw a conclusion.

Please do, nothing more frustrating than a direct hit passing directly through someone. Sadly though I think its latency related as when my ping goes up the more it seems to occur.  :(
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Miley on June 26, 2012, 12:59:35 am
Nonse? What's that? (will it ever be fixed*)
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Vkvkvk on June 26, 2012, 01:37:20 am
Because it doesn't. Ghost reach is when a weapon hitbox is longer than the visual model. If a weapon has ghost reach, it will be noticeable every time you attack.
What people call ghost reach is caused by client-server delays, server-client delays, and synchronization approximation. What you see looks like there's ghost reach, but what the server "sees" (and most other clients probably) is perfectly fine.

Right, any way to fix that? I mean I understand that netcodes and ping aren't things that can really be fixed easily or at all but that kind of unsync between client-server/server-client is getting worse and worse.

As I'm no dev, I don't know about the inner workings of WSE or anything like that in details so if I'm wrong, feel free to call me stupid but isn't adding all that new WSE stuff  just straining the servers even more by having to calculate more things at once, effectively making phenomenons like Ghost Reach happen more often? I've been playing cRPG exactly 2 years now (Give or take a few days) and my playstyle has never changed, it's always been about me going high athletic builds just so I could dance just outside of someone's reach and attack them when they were already commited to an attack, making it so that they couldn't block if I timed it right. That playstyle is unfortunately getting harder and harder because of said phenomenon, I used to be able to do it with great results a year and a half back so I don't see why I would somehow become worse in my best playstyle when I've gotten absolutely better in everything else by miles.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 26, 2012, 01:39:46 am
The thing is, if it was the server's fault (i.e. WSE or engine related) we would be all experiencing it, with no exceptions. I can't speak for others, but I haven't seen anything like that, which makes me think it's not the server after all.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Kafein on June 26, 2012, 02:59:50 am
I was referring to Digglez.

Why u no always quote people  :(

That would would also prevent me from ridiculing myself with writing brainfarts.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on June 26, 2012, 03:28:34 am
I have had no problems, you all just suck.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Banok on June 26, 2012, 03:34:46 am
would be nice if the game had proper weapon tracers instead of area of effect attacks to stop ghost reach and such. pvkii and wotr have it.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: BranStark on June 26, 2012, 04:16:09 am
Works perfectly fine for me, sound like the problem is on your side.

Awesome attitude from someone on the dev team.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 26, 2012, 05:06:29 am
would be nice if the game had proper weapon tracers instead of area of effect attacks to stop ghost reach and such. pvkii and wotr have it.

And Mount&Blade had it long before them.

Awesome attitude from someone on the dev team.

I was gonna write something about that, but then I browsed through your posting history and saw several posts where you accuse me of being biased towards 2h.
If you don't mind, I'm just gonna label you as a dumbass and ignore you.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Xant on June 26, 2012, 05:15:35 am
Awesome attitude from someone on the dev team.

 :rolleyes:

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Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Serfonz on June 26, 2012, 11:43:32 am
I seem to recall someone saying at some point that arrows sometimes look strange because WPF is only applied after the arrow is fired? Or is this one of my imaginings?
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Elmetiacos on June 26, 2012, 01:17:37 pm
Tbh that sounds like generic talk from someone who doesn't know how a game engine works and is just speaking by hearsay.
"I heard if you put too many items in the Start menu it breaks, so you shouldn't put too many features in cRPG or it will break too."
No, that's the exact opposite of hearsay, because it's what I am experiencing at first hand: more phantom hits and blocks than ever before.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 26, 2012, 02:20:02 pm
No, that's the exact opposite of hearsay, because it's what I am experiencing at first hand: more phantom hits and blocks than ever before.

I take it you haven't even checked what part of your post I quoted?
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Elmetiacos on June 26, 2012, 05:56:58 pm
I take it you haven't even checked what part of your post I quoted?
I have no idea whether the number of items you can buy affects gameplay or not, except that it may be related to the fact that people have been told to turn off "Load Textures on Demand"; I am merely commenting that there seems to be a lot of stuff available to buy that isn't really needed, like all the shirts and dresses and high end helms that are barely distinguishable from each other. What I do know is that now there are more phantom blocks and blows for me and people who previously had not been affected by this phenomenon now are. I started to notice them way back with the patch that brought in half-swording secondary mode for 2H swords. Some versions have improved playability and others have made it worse. The latest has made it worse. I expect these problems will soon be fixed, but not if nobody tells the developers! I am also warning of the dangers of trying to do too much with a game mod.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Mlekce on June 26, 2012, 06:15:14 pm
Fix the fucking overhead and stab with 1h weapons. Every time my sword pass trough enemy body and i die because of that.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: obitus on June 26, 2012, 06:15:33 pm
hit registry is terrible, sequel pls
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on June 26, 2012, 08:12:13 pm
I notice nothing new. Hit registration and overall smoothness of this game varys all the time, mostly I blame inconsisency of internet connection.

And compared to any native server the crpg EU server is much smoother and faster responding.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 26, 2012, 09:34:57 pm
Fix this bullshit ghost swing already! Is it so hard to adjust weapon spread dmg according to it lenght?-_-
Or atleast add option of battle record, to proof you are wrong.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: bruce on June 26, 2012, 09:39:39 pm
Fix this bullshit ghost swing already! Is it so hard to adjust weapon spread dmg according to it lenght?-_-

After the big ghost range correction all weapons are exactly as long as their models; however, the ghost range due to movement+instantaneous communication is most likely not physically possible to fix.

If you stand fully stationary and your opponent as well, there will be no ghost range.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 26, 2012, 09:43:39 pm
After the big ghost range correction all weapons are exactly as long as their models; however, the ghost range due to movement+instantaneous communication is most likely not physically possible to fix.

If you stand fully stationary and your opponent as well, there will be no ghost range.
So why World of Tanks hasnt this problem? Even if you move a 1cm from an object it wont hit it, because of some invisible ghost hitbox;/.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 26, 2012, 09:49:27 pm
Comparing World of Tanks with Warband...

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Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Gafferjack on June 27, 2012, 12:22:24 am
I just played 2 hours as twohander on duel server and there weren't any of the problems mentioned here.

In my experience, it wholly depends on the weapons you face; it's very common on some one-handers (Italian Sword, Long Espada Eslavona, Nordic Champion's Sword, for example), and weapons like the Morningstar, although there is an underlying problem (at least in my opinion) about effective weapon length.

After the big ghost range correction all weapons are exactly as long as their models...

In general, this is an undesirable way to model weapon length outside of people being completely naked. I'd assume that most armors are, in fact, not part of your skin. A gambeson should be at least 1-2 cm of thickness, not counting any of the heavier armors. The fact that you take full damage from being hit by the tip of a weapon that didn't penetrate more than 2-3 cm into your flesh is fairly unrealistic, unless HP is supposed to model pain tolerance.

There is no definitive way to "fix" it, because technically it isn't even a bug.

For the most part, ghost-reach complaints are about being hit by the near-invisible fast-moving tip of a weapon. Normalizing weapon length should actually be pretty easy. Taking off at least 2-3cm from each weapon would make it so the 'ghost-reach' essentially never happens. Ideally it would be 5-6cm so you can actually justify taking full damage from an attack that penetrates your armor, but I can understand why this wouldn't happen.

Picks having a length longer than the tip of their pick head is fairly stupid. I used the Military Pick for a long time, and got some stupid hits where the actual pick never hit my enemy, just the top of the model (where it's completely flat). Mace and axe weapons would ideally have their length reduced from the top of the head/ball (so you're actually hitting them with part of the head, and not sliding off their armor). A good example is the morningstar, where its length is calculated based on the top spike protruding from the ball. Getting hit by this shouldn't cause full damage, especially considering you only need to be hit by the very tip of it.

Another weapon that I feel really exemplifies the inadequacy of weapon length is the Bec de Corbin. Its length is calculated on the very top of the thrusting spike. This means that you get hit by full swinging piercing damage from a tip slash. This would be a weapon that would benefit greatly from the proposed feature that changes the damage/type based on what part you hit the weapon with, in addition to normalizing effective weapon length; getting hit by a swing with the stabbing point would be cut damage, and not full pierce damage, and you'd actually have to penetrate a decent amount of the weapon into the person to cause said damage.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: duurrr on June 27, 2012, 12:25:54 am
CMP NERF RANGE

THANKS
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Sir Ryden on June 27, 2012, 12:27:53 am
I agree with Gafferjack whole heartidly.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: NeoZecks on June 27, 2012, 01:04:45 am
Gafferjack is right.
And in response to his correctness, I demand a Hammaxe.
One side does blunt, one side does cut, and a tip in the middle for thrusting pierce...

Take your time gentlemen, I'm happy to wait a whole 2... 3, days?
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 27, 2012, 04:56:43 am
In general, this is an undesirable way to model weapon length outside of people being completely naked. I'd assume that most armors are, in fact, not part of your skin. A gambeson should be at least 1-2 cm of thickness, not counting any of the heavier armors. The fact that you take full damage from being hit by the tip of a weapon that didn't penetrate more than 2-3 cm into your flesh is fairly unrealistic, unless HP is supposed to model pain tolerance.

You are assuming that the hitbox is your armor or your skin, but it's not. The hitbox is made up of several capsules that approximate the shape of the body, and it's thinner than armors. Apart from some points, the blade will need to go quite deep to intersect with it.
(click to show/hide)
Reducing weapon length is not an option, it would result in misses that look like clean hits.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Gafferjack on June 27, 2012, 06:15:49 am
The fact that you take full damage from being hit by the tip of a weapon that didn't penetrate more than 2-3 cm into your flesh is fairly unrealistic, unless HP is supposed to model pain tolerance.

So:

•The hitboxes are deep enough to constitute a solid hit.

or

•HP is modeled on pain tolerance.

Which of these is the official stance on game mechanics? Or does the tip of the weapon already not do full damage? I can infer that it's probably the first option, but the fact that there is no crippling/damage of body parts leads me to believe the second (and that we're indestructible beings). I also still don't understand the logic behind weapons like picks having a length longer than the actual striking head's tip.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 27, 2012, 02:18:45 pm
Picks not only have longer range, but can stab you with sides of the weapon(not only peak). Mosty stupid thing is cav hitting you with hand or 1 metre out your body and getting kill.

This game takes out skills, how to learn to dodge fuking ghost!?
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: bruce on June 27, 2012, 03:10:39 pm
dodge fuking ghost!?

You can block it.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 27, 2012, 03:13:20 pm
how to learn to dodge fuking ghost!?

Don't dodge it, there's an easier way...
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Banok on June 27, 2012, 05:09:12 pm
And Mount&Blade had it long before them.
actually pvkii is at least older than warband.

and it really doesn't feel like warband does, game has aoe attacks in practise. for example you swing and backpeddle, if someone walks into the area you swung at they get hit. you swing left side of your horse you tend to hit anything in a area to the side of horse, even if you swing way above their head. both examples your a hitting people without your weapon passing anywhere near them.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: cmp on June 27, 2012, 05:46:52 pm
actually pvkii is at least older than warband.

Mount&Blade, not Warband.

and it really doesn't feel like warband does, game has aoe attacks in practise. for example you swing and backpeddle, if someone walks into the area you swung at they get hit. you swing left side of your horse you tend to hit anything in a area to the side of horse, even if you swing way above their head. both examples your a hitting people without your weapon passing anywhere near them.

No.
Title: Re: Nonse hit detection- will be ever fix?
Post by: Tomeusz on June 27, 2012, 07:10:47 pm
Mount&Blade, not Warband.
No.
Yes.