cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: chadz on May 28, 2012, 04:55:25 pm

Title: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 28, 2012, 04:55:25 pm
As some may have seen:

http://bugtracker.c-rpg.net/view.php?id=296
Quote
fief owner can build structures (walls, gates, towers) for his fief.

buildings can be done via normal stronghold commands.

host a local server with the gamemode "strategus fief visitor"
F2 enables building and help.

write "/save" in chat to save your current buildings.
write "/load" in chat to load to the last save state - unsaved progress is lost
write "/reset" to empty all unbuilt structures.

this is for some time for experimentation only and is not yet live in strat, although your buildings are saved. We will define price and circumstances soon.

Things you should keep in mind when building:
to successfully build structures for real (transfer into a real strat map) you will hae to pay gold, pay trading goods of special (random) types and have many visitors to build the structures faster.

to prevent abuse, the following rules will be established:
can't build close to scene boundaries,
can't build close to enemy spawn,
all defenders spawn points have to be reachable without aid (ladders etc) (when gates are open). to successfully save, you will spawn as a single attacker and have to visit all spawn points.

coming up soon:
terraforming, draw bridges

Now the question is:
how would you abuse it?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Olwen on May 28, 2012, 05:02:58 pm
build 10 walls one after another ? trololo ?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on May 28, 2012, 05:04:13 pm
Surround the enemy spawn with walls?

I know you can't place walls on the enemy spawn, but unless the distance between the enemy spawn, where you can't place stuff, and the area you can, you could possibly make a cheap wall that makes a village very hard to attack - and doesn't really add to the medieval feeling (Spawns to attack a village, looks around to see a massive ringwall all around you)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 28, 2012, 05:05:59 pm
as you can't build close to the enemy spawn, you can't attach walls to the "map end", this does not sound overly possible.

Also, i'm thinking gates will be opened in the beginning of strat, so the defenders have to close them first. if the gate is too close to the attacker, the advantage of the gate is nullified.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Olwen on May 28, 2012, 05:07:24 pm
in fact, just need to set towers in good places to be able to spawn rape, or even make towers on the walls surrounded by walls and a gate
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Crob28 on May 28, 2012, 05:35:29 pm
If there's something even slightly abusable to be found here, it's guaranteed that *ahem* certain players would find it and exploit it HARD.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Kalp on May 28, 2012, 05:50:46 pm
let me think  :D
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Blackzilla on May 28, 2012, 07:20:02 pm
Make a limit on number of gates you can have, idk you can even make a fOrt outside of the village do the defense is easier. You could build it on a hill or something.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Bjarky on May 28, 2012, 07:39:49 pm
abuse, hmmm. well yes if there is no build limit, u could build some items in such a quantity that makes it OP in battle.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Kalp on May 28, 2012, 07:45:35 pm
Does adding traps will also be possible? like lever opening big hole in ground etc etc
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Blackzilla on May 28, 2012, 07:55:35 pm
They should make a limit if what you can use, or the amount of items you can have, also needs to be realistic. I think devs should check all the maps before they are allowed to be used.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: mandible/splinteryourjaw on May 28, 2012, 08:22:13 pm
Let them build as much as they want, a super fortress even, but use a progressive cost system. 

For ex; 1 foot of wall cost 100 gold, 3 trade goods, 8 man hours...the next foot cost 120 gold, 4 trade goods, 10 man hours...next foot cost 150 gold, 6 trade goods, 14 man hours... for a total of 370 gold, 13 goods, 32 hours to build 3 feet of wall

I just threw out stupid #'s but a sharply progressive formula would make one think about the importance of each piece of wall and help prevent spamming just to block movement,
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: PhantomZero on May 28, 2012, 10:58:23 pm
Let them build as much as they want, a super fortress even, but use a progressive cost system. 

For ex; 1 foot of wall cost 100 gold, 3 trade goods, 8 man hours...the next foot cost 120 gold, 4 trade goods, 10 man hours...next foot cost 150 gold, 6 trade goods, 14 man hours... for a total of 370 gold, 13 goods, 32 hours to build 3 feet of wall

I just threw out stupid #'s but a sharply progressive formula would make one think about the importance of each piece of wall and help prevent spamming just to block movement,

No don't do that, just make it so that each building requires money to be maintained, the more walls/etc. you have the more it costs to maintain.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Jarlek on May 29, 2012, 01:16:52 am
Looking forward to test this when I get my cRPg patched.

And I really can't think of a way to abuse it. Gain a big advantage, yeah. Gain an advantage that makes it impossible to lose? Nope.

All the buildings are destroyable, you can't block the defenders or attackers spawn and you can't build at the edge. This really takes away a lot of the griefing that can be done.

Nice job.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: mandible/splinteryourjaw on May 29, 2012, 01:40:47 am
No don't do that, just make it so that each building requires money to be maintained, the more walls/etc. you have the more it costs to maintain.

Works also, more direct and less complicated  8-). 

But I hate taxes; if you build it, it should be yours.   Although it would be cool if someone fails to pay the tax and Al Adin visits to destroy the village and all occupants.

And, if I see an invading force I know will defeat me I can overbuild and retreat; leaving them with an outrageous tax on the fief and the subsequent visit from Al Adin and his collectors :twisted:
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Tomas on May 29, 2012, 01:43:57 am
As some may have seen:

http://bugtracker.c-rpg.net/view.php?id=296
Now the question is:
how would you abuse it?

How do you define "near" as in can't build near map edge?

Is it something along the lines of "you must be closer to one of your own spawn points than you are to either the map edge or an enemy spawn point in order to build?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Havoco on May 29, 2012, 02:18:56 am
Couldn't u just make a massive wall maze?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 29, 2012, 03:51:32 am
Do you use construction materials to build it?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Garem on May 29, 2012, 04:16:13 am
Instead of using gates, I'd just make extremely narrow passages. Force the enemy to file in a narrow pass.

Looking forward to seeing how this plays out, as this very post reflects the reality that this may be very easily abused.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 29, 2012, 07:17:09 am
I'm excited to test it out. If it requires labour to compelte it will definiatly result in Fisdnars visiting fee going back down to 2 gold.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: arowaine on May 29, 2012, 09:12:41 am
To be honest the best way would be a pre determinated structure like no costumize for example 2 different way to build it with gates/walls/towers determinated by devs(who code it) fief owner pick up 1kind cost (xxxxxx) and start build up wall or tower or gate first depend their priority...but basicly devs should make preset of build structure so player cant abuse it and dev can now give a advantage to defender and make sure its still possible to attack it without getting spawn rapping :)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 29, 2012, 09:17:59 am
where's the fun in that.

People want to build.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 29, 2012, 09:39:41 am
I wants builds!

Can we please build brothels? The whores are rampant up in Fisdnar, it would be great if we could contain them in one spot. The stuff that gets in the milled bread is not fit to be talked about.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 29, 2012, 09:43:06 am
oh right - it only works if your strat hero is in the fief. When you start the gamemode, it will do nothing if you are outside a fief, and it will show the current fief you are stationed in.

Only owners can build stuff though, although they can invite other people on their server to help them build - in theory. Try it out :3
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 29, 2012, 09:48:33 am
Wow :D Will do, now I just have to get back to Fisdnar!
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: BerG on May 29, 2012, 10:06:09 am
I think good decision is to make construction cost depends exponentially on the distance to defenders spawn.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Kalp on May 29, 2012, 10:26:52 am
After press F3 I got error message
(click to show/hide)

or I doing something wrong, because I never play Stronghold

and I can't spawn on this map so I do not know if this is how it should be or not...
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 29, 2012, 10:31:23 am
did it switch you to a different map when you hosted a server?
if not, then this is probably the problem.
if it did switch map, then it's my problem :P
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Kalp on May 29, 2012, 10:38:54 am
after I hosted a server there was a ruin map, but after few seconds map changed to Gisim [I believe it was Gisim  :rolleyes:]

And I tried to use command buttons on this map and at this point I got error message
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 29, 2012, 10:48:57 am
ah yes - you were probably in spectator. try joining a team via ESC first (no matter which team).

I'll fix that error message bug for the next release.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 29, 2012, 10:53:09 am
something else to note - you will have to set a password if you want to save and load. Right now, that can be any number between 1000 and 9999. Use chat to write /pass 1234 for now.

(Later that will be a number you get from within strategus)

edit: also, i'd suggest playing around with /save and /load before you build some big structures :)

and: buildings can be demolished by using them (F key default i think)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Kalp on May 29, 2012, 11:02:56 am
ah yes - you were probably in spectator. try joining a team via ESC first (no matter which team).
I did it already earlier, but nothing happen. Should I be able to spawn ?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Bjord on May 29, 2012, 11:06:58 am
This is genius, well done chadz!
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 29, 2012, 11:07:55 am
yes, you should spawn when selecting a team. worked for me, at least :)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Vovka on May 29, 2012, 11:51:00 am
As some may have seen:
http://bugtracker.c-rpg.net/view.php?id=296
Now the question is:
how would you abuse it?

 right now we have only 1h for battle 1500 vs 1500
 so 3 line of wall and def will get half troops from attack XD

coming up soon:
terraforming, draw bridges
wall on a steep hill >> length of the siege ladders so attackers will fall from them and loose hp or cant reach wall ))

 :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Tomas on May 29, 2012, 12:06:07 pm
Hmm - not tested this but a wall on the hill in dusturil would pretty much make it impossible to take.  You can already fire on the attackers spawn from the top of the hill which is right next to the village so a wall and some towers would make it a nightmare for the attacker.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: kinngrimm on May 29, 2012, 01:11:22 pm
I'd like to see a restriction in building materials.

If the fief is mainly already constructed with wood, then that should restrict the objects you may use for building, sandstone buildings get sandstone walls to build.
Castles build out of granite should get the textures for granite etc.

That way not anybody can mix textures so we got a desert/viking/whatever construct in the end.
We got rectrictions for banners because of look and feel so there should be restrictions for textures depending on fief type.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Moribund on May 29, 2012, 05:36:26 pm
It just wont let me spawn.  :cry:

I am in Tash Kulun in Strat, the map changes to Tash Kulun after a short time...but it just wont let me spawn.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 29, 2012, 05:37:28 pm
I'll check it out when i'm home.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Moribund on May 30, 2012, 12:59:06 am
I'll check it out when i'm home.

Nice! You did it.
I can spawn...i can place walls and towers.  :shock:
It takes some practice though.

(click to show/hide)

It is a little difficult to build at slopes. Maybe you should allow for a little more tilting?

Edit 2: Walls expanded (still not gates):

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Bjarky on May 30, 2012, 01:44:52 am
i iz impressed  :shock:
now we just need our Marble villa  8-)
we request being able to build casual stuff  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Muki on May 30, 2012, 04:21:42 am
How do you switch to your second fief if you own two, or does this feature only applys to towns
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Svitjodvarg on May 30, 2012, 08:05:16 am
I'd like to see a restriction in building materials.

If the fief is mainly already constructed with wood, then that should restrict the objects you may use for building, sandstone buildings get sandstone walls to build.
Castles build out of granite should get the textures for granite etc.

That way not anybody can mix textures so we got a desert/viking/whatever construct in the end.
We got rectrictions for banners because of look and feel so there should be restrictions for textures depending on fief type.

I Agree.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 30, 2012, 09:17:18 am
I'd like to see a restriction in building materials.

If the fief is mainly already constructed with wood, then that should restrict the objects you may use for building, sandstone buildings get sandstone walls to build.
Castles build out of granite should get the textures for granite etc.

That way not anybody can mix textures so we got a desert/viking/whatever construct in the end.
We got rectrictions for banners because of look and feel so there should be restrictions for textures depending on fief type.

If you were building fortifications for your town you would grab the best stuff you could.

I think the only barrier should be time and money. Perhaps more advanced sites get more advanced stuff cheaper and faster.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 30, 2012, 11:42:47 am
I wants builds!

Can we please build brothels? The whores are rampant up in Fisdnar, it would be great if we could contain them in one spot. The stuff that gets in the milled bread is not fit to be talked about.

 Huzzah for frank!! Genius!
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: KillerofFlowers on May 30, 2012, 01:36:42 pm
How do you switch to your second fief if you own two, or does this feature only applys to towns
I think you can only edit the fief you are in
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Bjarky on May 30, 2012, 03:36:12 pm
I think you can only edit the fief you are in
yup
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: KillerofFlowers on May 30, 2012, 04:21:14 pm
Are walls still going to be able to be broken by a sword Like stronghold was? If that's what you were planning then you should make it that an axe and catapult can break the wooden walls and only a catapult can break the stone walls. Also how do you go about making a gate for ur gatehouse?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on May 30, 2012, 05:10:09 pm
That's not 100% decided, but probably not. You will most likely have to use catas for it.

Gates will be done automatically when it matters :)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: KillerofFlowers on May 30, 2012, 05:17:44 pm
Ok sounds good to me and something that I've thought of for a while now, if you use a catapult And destroy a Wall or something in a Siege the person who just captured the castle will have to pay to repair the walls instead of the walls magically being fixed.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Lt_Anders on May 30, 2012, 08:32:25 pm
You should allow building of Special buildings in strat.

IE...Blacksmith for increased crafting chances. Watch Tower for large increase in sight range. etc.

Also, you should make torches able to burn down wooden walls and special buildings. Also make special buildings stay on the map once built. This now makes for some AWESOME strategic planning.

Lets say you have a fief that is really awesome, but the enemy just happened to catch you with your pants down. You don't have alot of money, so, by equiping your army with torches,you could effectively play a policy of scorched earth by burning down your own walls and special buildings making the ENEMY either have to pay and repair them or get a weakened village for your counter attack.

And then on the reverse side. Lets say you can't capture the village, but you can raid so you raid it and set some torches and you burn down portions of the walls/special buildings thereby reducing the enemies combat capabilities and money to repair the damage. By burning the walls down, you make a hole on the wall you can use without problems.

In counter to torches, you should make hammers have repair functions so you can put/repair damage from torches. Buff torches into the relm of awesome on strat with this!
Also, only allow wood walls for villages. Stone walls for backwater villages? Eh? Only castles and cities should get those.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Joseph Porta on May 30, 2012, 09:25:54 pm
Is there a battering ram? Would be cool to down gates faster.. :)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 31, 2012, 12:23:41 am
I'm having trouble connecting to map building funitorium...

Can some one please post the steps of success?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Moribund on May 31, 2012, 01:08:07 am
Start cRPG
Host game
Select game mode: Strategus fief visitor
Start map
Wait
Map will change to your village
Join a team

Start building!
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Muki on May 31, 2012, 01:40:20 am
 
Start cRPG
Host game
Select game mode: Strategus fief visitor
Start map
Wait
Map will change to your village
Join a team

Start building!



Also you have to be in your fief
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 31, 2012, 01:46:08 am
Yeah, Arys was there but I couldn't find the server to join it.

Or is it one at a time atm?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Muki on May 31, 2012, 01:50:25 am
Yeah, Arys was there but I couldn't find the server to join it.

Or is it one at a time atm?

got to host one yourself no need to connect to db
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Segd on May 31, 2012, 01:56:16 am
Should I host dedicated or ingame server?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Muki on May 31, 2012, 02:45:32 am
Should I host dedicated or ingame server?
ingame
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on May 31, 2012, 03:51:17 am
Are building's killable?

If not, then walls may be built in such a way as to connect buildings. Ladders could connect to walls, and walls buildings, and a mayhaps a giant, homosexual what the fuck net could be created. Not a big deal, for all is destroyable, but still retarded.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 31, 2012, 03:55:25 am
Arys has already made it insane lol
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Slamz on May 31, 2012, 06:32:17 am
Not sure if anyone has mentioned -- can't see spawn flags when placing buildings so it's hard to guess whether or not I'm blocking a spawn.



Also... can archers shoot at people over these wooden palisades?  The platform you stand on looks a little low.  The peaks of the logs are basically in my face when I stand there and I'm a little dubious about the ability to shoot over them.


In fact, maybe let us spawn with a bow in this mode (even if we can't normally use it) just so we can test things like firing arcs.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on May 31, 2012, 09:33:42 am
Good call, would be good to be able to test that stuff. Maybe even be able to spawn catapults and test fire on the fief to find it's weak points.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Slamz on May 31, 2012, 10:49:24 am
Regarding cost, I kinda hope it's a set cost per piece, maybe simply with limited numbers of pieces ("limit 20 wall segments" or whatever).

Accelerating costs will make me do math to find out what I can afford to setup.  I do enough math in strategus already.

Maintenance kinda makes me frown because it's one more inescapable cost to worry about if we accidentally overspend funds (WHICH IS REALLY EASY SINCE THERE'S NO WAY TO ENTER CRAFTING LIMITS.)  Although it might be interesting if wall hit points could degrade slowly if you stopped paying maintenance.  So it's still a wall -- they can't just hit it with a sword and kill it -- but it might go down in 1 catapult hit instead of...whatever is normal...because you didn't pay to maintain it.


Anyway, I like this system.

Probably the closest you could get to an "exploit" would be to leave the narrowest possible opening for one person to get through, so you pass the "all flags accessible" test but realistically you aren't getting in there without ladders (or a catapult).

Maybe if there was a way to make the test be run with a really FAT avatar, triple wide, so that there was a limit on how narrow you could make an opening...  Not that big a deal though because you can just bring ladders to fief battles from now on.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Slamz on May 31, 2012, 11:50:19 am
Oo!  Oo!  I know!

"Knockdown traps."

So the fief passes the "can enter from outside" test but to do so you have to go up some stairs and along a narrow wall (such as a palisade with the archer walk facing outward).

A higher wall on the inside will let defenders shoot at any attackers dumb enough to take that route.  Since the walkway is so narrow, arrow shots stand a reasonable chance of knocking them off the wall?

Or maybe you can even arrange "kick traps" -- a path attackers have to take that incidentally sets them up to be kicked into a pit.  (Shouting "THIS IS SPARTA" every time you do it is optional.)  Once in the pit the only way out is to spectate and re-enter.


The "flag check test" is still a good test, I think, to ensure that nobody puts a spawn flag in a 100% unreachable location but you can certainly do some creative things that will make attackers HAVE to bring catapults or ladders, to bypass your various little traps.


P.S.
Flag test should fail if you take any damage while doing it. (You can reach the flags, you just have to take a lot of falling damage to do it...)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Tomas on May 31, 2012, 03:39:17 pm
Some possible thoughts on balance

Each Building has a set price but that price is then modified by the following things

1) Distance from nearest Spawn Flag - the further you go from your spawn the more it will cost you

2) Height above attackers spawn - the higher your building is above the attackers spawn the more it will cost.

The first discourages large expanisve building projects without prohibiting them.  This might not be needed though depending on the building restrictions around the edge of the map and enemy spawn.

The second is the important one as being on a big hill (like Tulbuk/Dusturil/Alburg Castle) is already the best defensive feature you can have.  Being able to improve these fiefs at the same cost as a flat fief (like Dashbigha) would be very overpowered imo.  Think of it as having to pay for the extra labour to carry the materials up the hill as well as the extra work that needs to go into the foundations of the building :D
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: KillerofFlowers on June 01, 2012, 06:01:00 am
(click to show/hide)

I think this might turn out to be a little expensive lol
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: ArysOakheart on June 01, 2012, 07:24:28 am
http://imgur.com/a/tsxcB
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Vovka on June 01, 2012, 08:01:26 am
I'll hate myself but:

or 
so we will get some free buildings, all others will cost us in crafting effective


Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: KillerofFlowers on June 01, 2012, 01:10:21 pm
http://imgur.com/a/tsxcB
nice
I'll hate myself but:

  • Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
  • Free maintenance for 10 buildings,all the rest requires materials.
  • It also requires one person for every 50 units of buildings (repair team, so the more you build the less fief brings benefits as a craft village/castle)
or 
  • Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
  • free maintenance for 10x[the number of players in the fief], all the rest requires materials.
so we will get some free buildings, all others will cost us in crafting effective



I think i like the second option the best
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Olwen on June 01, 2012, 01:21:08 pm
I'll hate myself but:

  • Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
  • Free maintenance for 10 buildings,all the rest requires materials.
  • It also requires one person for every 50 units of buildings (repair team, so the more you build the less fief brings benefits as a craft village/castle)
or 
  • Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
  • free maintenance for 10x[the number of players in the fief], all the rest requires materials.
so we will get some free buildings, all others will cost us in crafting effective

1st option sounds fair, big castles are one damn expensive thing
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Tomas on June 01, 2012, 02:24:28 pm
Option 3 :D
- Fixed Gold Price per building
- Each building carries a set crafting efficiency nerf
- Each building carries a set recruiting efficiency buff
- Each building carries a set fief population buff

That way if you build walls around a village, you gradually turn it into a Castle and lose it's functionality as a village.

For instance a wall and a wooden wall around a village could lower the crafting efficiency by 10%, raise the recruiting efficiency by 10% and raise the population by 50.  A stone wall and keep on the other hand would lower the crafting efficiency by 50%, raise the recruiting efficiency by 50% and raise the population by 1500.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on June 01, 2012, 02:26:17 pm
It shouldn't be too time/labour intensive... Otherwise it has a good chance of turning into Sim City.

Keep it simple what ever the solution is, dead simple.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on June 01, 2012, 02:42:11 pm
base maximum amount of objects on visitors in your fief?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Tomas on June 01, 2012, 02:49:39 pm
I have to ask if their are any plans to take this idea to its ultimate conclusion?

Imagine ALL fiefs (including castles and towns) staring as basic villages that you can then add to as you wish but each addition you make has a knock-on effect to the fief's population, crafting efficiency and recruiting efficiency.

You would need to be able to destroy the starting huts and terraform the land a bit (already mentioned) but then you could have fully customized fiefs all built with strategy in mind, not just for battle tactics but also for overall strategy to control trade routes and protect borders.  It would be awesome :D

A rough idea of how it would work
(click to show/hide)



Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Tomas on June 01, 2012, 02:50:39 pm
base maximum amount of objects on visitors in your fief?

What happens when somebody leaves but you already have buildings for them?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on June 01, 2012, 03:03:38 pm
I have to ask if their are any plans to take this idea to its ultimate conclusion?

(click to show/hide)

Plans? Yes. But I doubt it's something we can do with cRPG (1).

What happens when somebody leaves but you already have buildings for them?

Every piece of wall costs, x gold per hour. Every (active) visitors in your fief skips 1 wall repair cost.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: [ptx] on June 01, 2012, 03:19:26 pm
I have to ask if their are any plans to take this idea to its ultimate conclusion?

Imagine ALL fiefs (including castles and towns) staring as basic villages that you can then add to as you wish but each addition you make has a knock-on effect to the fief's population, crafting efficiency and recruiting efficiency.

You would need to be able to destroy the starting huts and terraform the land a bit (already mentioned) but then you could have fully customized fiefs all built with strategy in mind, not just for battle tactics but also for overall strategy to control trade routes and protect borders.  It would be awesome :D

A rough idea of how it would work
(click to show/hide)
That reminds me of this M&B mod, where there are no fiefs in the game at start, except for a few starting towns and you slowly build up a village, starting from an empty camp, that you can then upgrade more and more.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Bjarky on June 01, 2012, 03:39:51 pm
Every piece of wall costs, x gold per hour. Every (active) visitors in your fief skips 1 wall repair cost.
will be very difficult with 2:1 tick ratio, maybe 1:1 will make it more balanced, 2:1 will prolly force many villages to stay with a few pieces only, if at all, cus there is already troop upkeep.
That reminds me of this M&B mod, where there are no fiefs in the game at start, except for a few starting towns and you slowly build up a village, starting from an empty camp, that you can then upgrade more and more.
interesting, what is it called, could be fun try  :D
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: [ptx] on June 01, 2012, 03:46:11 pm
Uh, Custom Settlements, iirc.
It was reaaaaaaaally slow, though, took ages of work to get your settlement anywhere, gathering random travellers and such to slowly increase your population and getting them to slowly gather up those resources, whilst constantly patrolling inside of your fief to take care of randomly appearing bandits and such.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Bjarky on June 01, 2012, 04:30:25 pm
hmmm ah ok, sounds more like a pain ^^, thought it would a sandbox map (like in vanilla sp campaign) where the factions also rise etc.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: [ptx] on June 01, 2012, 04:33:05 pm
Factions do rise from scratch, except for one or two (bandits and whoever gains control of the neutral town).
The constant grind also means that there is a nice sense of progress, as you finally manage to upgrade into a castle. Sadly, defending troops don't spawn on the walls when defending that and it's kind of silly that way.

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,68400.0.html (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,68400.0.html) for those interested.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 01, 2012, 04:41:42 pm
(click to show/hide)

What about this idea concerning wooden walls and torches?


 Perhaps you could even add in some mechanics from the Engineer/sapper in NW. I'm pretty sure they had sappers before NW in MM. Perhaps you can find a way to add in a way to use shovels and stuff to make on the battlefield improvements?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: ArysOakheart on June 01, 2012, 09:30:15 pm
I have to ask if their are any plans to take this idea to its ultimate conclusion?

Imagine ALL fiefs (including castles and towns) staring as basic villages that you can then add to as you wish but each addition you make has a knock-on effect to the fief's population, crafting efficiency and recruiting efficiency.

You would need to be able to destroy the starting huts and terraform the land a bit (already mentioned) but then you could have fully customized fiefs all built with strategy in mind, not just for battle tactics but also for overall strategy to control trade routes and protect borders.  It would be awesome :D

A rough idea of how it would work
(click to show/hide)

+1000
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Slamz on June 01, 2012, 09:40:54 pm
base maximum amount of objects on visitors in your fief?

What happens when people leave?

Your idea would result in "construction teams" that go around and set things up, then move on.  Presumably the walls don't fall down just because someone left (that would suck).  Also, if walls can be lost due to lack of maintenance, we should have some way to set priority on structures.  I don't think a random item should just go poof because someone failed to notice that the town was out of money (I've done that -- it's not like there's a warning or anything, you just have to remember to check it every day).


I think the most fair + realistic approach is this:

It might also be reasonable to make cost based mostly or entirely on "construction material".  Maybe each building costs 1 construction site + X numbers of construction materials (this could create a market for anyone who managed to get crafting points in "construction material"...)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Bjarky on June 01, 2012, 10:13:50 pm
Every piece of wall costs, x gold per hour. Every (active) visitors in your fief skips 1 wall repair cost.
  doesn't say poof :wink:
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: POOPHAMMER on June 01, 2012, 10:16:27 pm
All of my time wasted in stronghold kingdoms has lead up to this

time to make my castle in stronghold a castle in crpg

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: TurmoilTom on June 01, 2012, 10:53:33 pm
(click to show/hide)

The greatest.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Slamz on June 01, 2012, 10:55:02 pm
How about if repair costs are tied to the number of troops in the fief?

Basically I don't like tying it to "heroes" because that doesn't make any sense.  I am not personally going out there and slapping together mortar and stone.  That's the sort of thing we hire people for, and I have all these troops sitting there...

If you have 1000 troops (not population, but actual troops) in your fief, then you are already paying a pretty good bill.  That should take care of repair costs.  (Your troops are going out and chopping trees and cutting stone and fixing walls.  Keeps em in shape, ya know.)
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Muki on June 02, 2012, 02:49:31 am
All of my time wasted in stronghold kingdoms has lead up to this

time to make my castle in stronghold a castle in crpg

(click to show/hide)

want to do slezkh castle for me :) or the town
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: POOPHAMMER on June 02, 2012, 06:19:35 am
want to do slezkh castle for me :) or the town

sure
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Slamz on June 02, 2012, 10:40:48 am
base maximum amount of objects on visitors in your fief?
Base maximum amount of objects on (active) clan members?

This way, a small clan could have 1 fief, well built and maintained even if they are personally often busy running around the map.

A large clan could have several built and maintained fiefs.

A large clan that has over-extended itself will have to pick and choose where it builds defenses, though.


Basically I'd like to avoid a situation where smaller clans get squeezed out (more than they already do).
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Syls on June 02, 2012, 10:45:34 am
Base maximum amount of objects on (active) clan members?

This way, a small clan could have 1 fief, well built and maintained even if they are personally often busy running around the map.

A large clan could have several built and maintained fiefs.

A large clan that has over-extended itself will have to pick and choose where it builds defenses, though.


Basically I'd like to avoid a situation where smaller clans get squeezed out (more than they already do).

I really like this, I'd like to add that depending on the amounts of building there should be a minimum number of clan members in the fief to "maintain and repair" the buildings.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Olwen on June 02, 2012, 12:05:54 pm
Uh, Custom Settlements, iirc.
It was reaaaaaaaally slow, though, took ages of work to get your settlement anywhere, gathering random travellers and such to slowly increase your population and getting them to slowly gather up those resources, whilst constantly patrolling inside of your fief to take care of randomly appearing bandits and such.


i tried it some years ago, gave up quickly
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Latvian on June 03, 2012, 08:20:14 am
Base maximum amount of objects on (active) clan members?

This way, a small clan could have 1 fief, well built and maintained even if they are personally often busy running around the map.

A large clan could have several built and maintained fiefs.

A large clan that has over-extended itself will have to pick and choose where it builds defenses, though.


Basically I'd like to avoid a situation where smaller clans get squeezed out (more than they already do).
great idea  if there will be some kind of building capacity it should depend on that^^^^
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: engurrand on June 04, 2012, 12:34:16 am
OH MY GOD fife visiting...

jeez man make my dreams cum true already?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Vovka on June 04, 2012, 11:08:23 am
Base maximum amount of objects on (active) clan members?
This way, a small clan could have 1 fief, well built and maintained even if they are personally often busy running around the map.
A large clan could have several built and maintained fiefs.
A large clan that has over-extended itself will have to pick and choose where it builds defenses, though.
Basically I'd like to avoid a situation where smaller clans get squeezed out (more than they already do).
And what happens when a large clan captures a fief from small one? with a large number of buildings? ))

1. greate sub clan,
2. build up
3. grab well-fortified fief by main clan
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Slamz on June 04, 2012, 10:08:41 pm
And what happens when a large clan captures a fief from small one? with a large number of buildings? ))

1. greate sub clan,
2. build up
3. grab well-fortified fief by main clan
As soon as you split off the sub-clan, you've just reduced the number of structures your main clan can have.  If you have 50 people available, it doesn't matter if you have 50 people in 1 clan or 5 people in 10 clans -- you have access to the same number of structures either way.


The problem with chadz idea of basing it on "number of players in a fief" is that smaller clans have a higher overhead cost of "people who need to leave the fief".  If my clan has 10 members and yours has 50 members and we both operate 1 caravan runner then I've lost 10% of my structures and you've only lost 2% of yours.  If we both additionally operate 2 raiders and 1 army then I've now lost 40% of my structures and you've lost 8% of yours.

Basing it on the "number of players in a clan" rather than "number of players in a fief" would help keep the relatively higher overheads of small clans from being as detrimental to them.


Although I still like the idea of basing it on the number of troops present.  If you are paying for 2000 troops to sit in some fief, why do you need "heroes" to sit there with them and maintain walls?


Yet another idea is to use this new "tick" system for crafting.  Each wall costs 1 tick per day or whatever, taken round-robin from each clan member.  So a clan with 10 active members and 200 inactive will be no better than a clan with 10 active members, period.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: chadz on June 04, 2012, 10:13:33 pm

The problem with chadz idea of basing it on "number of players in a fief" is that smaller clans have a higher overhead cost of "people who need to leave the fief".  If my clan has 10 members and yours has 50 members and we both operate 1 caravan runner then I've lost 10% of my structures and you've only lost 2% of yours.  If we both additionally operate 2 raiders and 1 army then I've now lost 40% of my structures and you've lost 8% of yours.

The idea would be that visitors are more important. Only big cities with many visitors are capable of maintaining walls etc. Instead of kicking them out, people invite them in.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Slamz on June 04, 2012, 10:29:23 pm
In that case, maybe you could tie it in with prosperity...

1 point of positive prosperity = 1 point of maintenance (a palisade wall maybe needs 3 points to maintain while a stone wall needs 5 and a staircase needs 1, etc)

Crafting, buying and selling all increase prosperity.  The more people crafting there, the faster prosperity goes up (to some cap -- cities would have higher caps than villages)
Recruiting increases castle prosperity but not village or city prosperity.
Begging/"nothing" does not increase or decrease prosperity.
If prosperity is not going up, it's going down.

In that case, an abandoned fief will eventually lose prosperity and decay but a busy fief can stay built up.

And smaller clans can build up their fief but then go out raiding for a week and come back before their fief's prosperity has decayed too much.

Attacks may decrease prosperity even if they fail (based on the amount of losses taken by the defenders) so that you can potentially wear down a fief's defenses.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Vovka on June 05, 2012, 08:03:46 am
The idea would be that visitors are more important. Only big cities with many visitors are capable of maintaining walls etc. Instead of kicking them out, people invite them in.








Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Olwen on June 05, 2012, 09:43:05 am
good inputs vovka
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Elindor on June 13, 2012, 08:58:45 pm
Kinda new to this thread but...

... might be good to limit total number of placeable segments or something...so people can't just turn it into a rediculous maze of walls
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Latvian on June 13, 2012, 09:59:19 pm
i might be stupid but how exactly i can save changes?i tried but ofcourse failed....
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Tanken on June 14, 2012, 01:22:57 am
Would love to weigh in on this, but no Devs have fixed my ownership of Slezkh Castle.

Resolved.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: ArysOakheart on June 15, 2012, 11:18:21 am
The idea would be that visitors are more important. Only big cities with many visitors are capable of maintaining walls etc. Instead of kicking them out, people invite them in.

We Free Peasants of Fisdnar do not understand this "kicking them out" concept. Here in Fisdnar, we allow all walk of life. 4g per hour 3g Northern Perches to craft. Come one, come all, to Fisdnar to craft your dreams come true!
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Aderyn on June 16, 2012, 12:35:06 am
I was just made aware of this and i will betatest the shit out of this on monday when i get home both in the castle and the fief.

chadz big kudos to you this time, this is the kind of stuff that strat needs. The ability to do stuff with your fiefs/castles/cities. =D

Next up buildingimprovements to boost income etc?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Slamz on June 24, 2012, 02:19:43 pm
Any updates on this feature?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Tomas on June 24, 2012, 05:59:02 pm
I can't get it so that other people can see the server I host.

I've done all the port forwarding stuff and my hosted server is visible on Native and in the non-launcher cRPG but it is not shown when i use the launcher.

I presume it is being filtered and if this is the case then it makes building together a little awkward :D
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: ArysOakheart on June 27, 2012, 01:02:36 pm
Looks like if this "more people in town more you can build" thing happens, Fisdnar would be a great northern fortress in no time at all.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Dutchydave on November 03, 2012, 08:02:20 pm
Is the fief builder actually working now in strat?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Haboe on November 03, 2012, 08:09:15 pm
I would make a wall. a very very high wall. It will have a few small platforms standing out so with 5-6 siege ladders from platform to platform you can precisely reach the top.

I would buy 5 great mauls, and be invincible.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Latvian on November 03, 2012, 08:32:54 pm
I would make a wall. a very very high wall. It will have a few small platforms standing out so with 5-6 siege ladders from platform to platform you can precisely reach the top.

I would buy 5 great mauls, and be invincible.
i am sure it would not be that exploitable system, anyhow i am wondering as well if that is wotrking now and if not when it could actualy be working?
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: kinngrimm on November 03, 2012, 08:58:18 pm
...
how would you abuse it?
Building structures in a way
- to get secret exit points, glitching through them without the enemy getting back inside the same way.
- that laddering wouldn't work
- that several walls behind the first will make catapults useless
- build structures into each other that you can use leavers only from one site which is good protected
- build structures in a way that flags would be unreachable
...
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Segd on November 03, 2012, 09:09:27 pm
Building structures in a way
- to get secret exit points, glitching through them without the enemy getting back inside the same way.
- that laddering wouldn't work
- that several walls behind the first will make catapults useless
- build structures into each other that you can use leavers only from one site which is good protected
- build structures in a way that flags would be unreachable
...
Quote
to prevent abuse, the following rules will be established:
can't build close to scene boundaries,
can't build close to enemy spawn,
all defenders spawn points have to be reachable without aid (ladders etc) (when gates are open). to successfully save, you will spawn as a single attacker and have to visit all spawn points.
Tested this on strat 3. Worked fine.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Haboe on November 03, 2012, 09:43:50 pm
Kinn has a nice point. Exit doors/ holes that are low enough to jump down, but too high to jump up (with a gate behind it so you can close when they ladder it). High gatehouse only reachable from defenders side.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Elmokki on November 04, 2012, 12:17:24 am
The first thought that came to mind about abusing it is pretty much what kinngrim said. Even if you have to visit all the flags as attacker to save it, you could make it ridiculously hard for an attacker to reach your flags (really long and narrow route) while you could let your defenders just hop down from some minor platform. Sure, ladders would be a counter for that though.

Also it's not really abusing the game mechanics necessarily per se, but unless a hammer of punishment is waved around like with custom banners most fortifications will be ugly as fuck. When you are fortifying an existing village I'm pretty sure that it'll often be a great idea to just wall of spaces between some buildings and use the existing buildings as walls. That said I bet people would just make giant penises too. Not really a problem, but just pointing it out.

Anyway, this is great. If it works well it'd be awesome if all the towns and castles would be redone so that towns have no walls and castles have just a minor somewhat defensible castle keep and no real walls at all. Players building the walls from scratch for those would be hilariously awesome.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: Loki on November 04, 2012, 10:08:10 pm
What about having static building foundations? Like a foundation of a wall around the village, foundations for towers in the corners of the walls, and a gate.  then you can pay X and that foundation turns into whatever it's supposed to be.  this would allow building up of villages without any chance of exploitation.
Title: Re: Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback
Post by: kinngrimm on November 05, 2012, 08:24:49 pm
also this idear (http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/repair-castles-after-sieges/) came up again, should be included into this project here.