Strategus Fief Owners - Building feedback

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Arys has already made it insane lol

[Slamz]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned -- can't see spawn flags when placing buildings so it's hard to guess whether or not I'm blocking a spawn.



Also... can archers shoot at people over these wooden palisades?  The platform you stand on looks a little low.  The peaks of the logs are basically in my face when I stand there and I'm a little dubious about the ability to shoot over them.


In fact, maybe let us spawn with a bow in this mode (even if we can't normally use it) just so we can test things like firing arcs.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

Good call, would be good to be able to test that stuff. Maybe even be able to spawn catapults and test fire on the fief to find it's weak points.

[Slamz]

Regarding cost, I kinda hope it's a set cost per piece, maybe simply with limited numbers of pieces ("limit 20 wall segments" or whatever).

Accelerating costs will make me do math to find out what I can afford to setup.  I do enough math in strategus already.

Maintenance kinda makes me frown because it's one more inescapable cost to worry about if we accidentally overspend funds (WHICH IS REALLY EASY SINCE THERE'S NO WAY TO ENTER CRAFTING LIMITS.)  Although it might be interesting if wall hit points could degrade slowly if you stopped paying maintenance.  So it's still a wall -- they can't just hit it with a sword and kill it -- but it might go down in 1 catapult hit instead of...whatever is normal...because you didn't pay to maintain it.


Anyway, I like this system.

Probably the closest you could get to an "exploit" would be to leave the narrowest possible opening for one person to get through, so you pass the "all flags accessible" test but realistically you aren't getting in there without ladders (or a catapult).

Maybe if there was a way to make the test be run with a really FAT avatar, triple wide, so that there was a limit on how narrow you could make an opening...  Not that big a deal though because you can just bring ladders to fief battles from now on.

[Slamz]

Oo!  Oo!  I know!

"Knockdown traps."

So the fief passes the "can enter from outside" test but to do so you have to go up some stairs and along a narrow wall (such as a palisade with the archer walk facing outward).

A higher wall on the inside will let defenders shoot at any attackers dumb enough to take that route.  Since the walkway is so narrow, arrow shots stand a reasonable chance of knocking them off the wall?

Or maybe you can even arrange "kick traps" -- a path attackers have to take that incidentally sets them up to be kicked into a pit.  (Shouting "THIS IS SPARTA" every time you do it is optional.)  Once in the pit the only way out is to spectate and re-enter.


The "flag check test" is still a good test, I think, to ensure that nobody puts a spawn flag in a 100% unreachable location but you can certainly do some creative things that will make attackers HAVE to bring catapults or ladders, to bypass your various little traps.


P.S.
Flag test should fail if you take any damage while doing it. (You can reach the flags, you just have to take a lot of falling damage to do it...)

[Tomas]

Some possible thoughts on balance

Each Building has a set price but that price is then modified by the following things

1) Distance from nearest Spawn Flag - the further you go from your spawn the more it will cost you

2) Height above attackers spawn - the higher your building is above the attackers spawn the more it will cost.

The first discourages large expanisve building projects without prohibiting them.  This might not be needed though depending on the building restrictions around the edge of the map and enemy spawn.

The second is the important one as being on a big hill (like Tulbuk/Dusturil/Alburg Castle) is already the best defensive feature you can have.  Being able to improve these fiefs at the same cost as a flat fief (like Dashbigha) would be very overpowered imo.  Think of it as having to pay for the extra labour to carry the materials up the hill as well as the extra work that needs to go into the foundations of the building

[KillerofFlowers]

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I think this might turn out to be a little expensive lol

[ArysOakheart]

http://imgur.com/a/tsxcB

[Vovka]

I'll hate myself but:

• Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
• Free maintenance for 10 buildings,all the rest requires materials.
• It also requires one person for every 50 units of buildings (repair team, so the more you build the less fief brings benefits as a craft village/castle)

or 

• Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
• free maintenance for 10x[the number of players in the fief], all the rest requires materials.

so we will get some free buildings, all others will cost us in crafting effective

[KillerofFlowers]

http://imgur.com/a/tsxcB

nice

I'll hate myself but:

• Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
• Free maintenance for 10 buildings,all the rest requires materials.
• It also requires one person for every 50 units of buildings (repair team, so the more you build the less fief brings benefits as a craft village/castle)

or 

• Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
• free maintenance for 10x[the number of players in the fief], all the rest requires materials.

so we will get some free buildings, all others will cost us in crafting effective

I think i like the second option the best

[Olwen]

I'll hate myself but:

• Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
• Free maintenance for 10 buildings,all the rest requires materials.
• It also requires one person for every 50 units of buildings (repair team, so the more you build the less fief brings benefits as a craft village/castle)

or 

• Fixed price for all buildings regardless of the count.
• free maintenance for 10x[the number of players in the fief], all the rest requires materials.

so we will get some free buildings, all others will cost us in crafting effective

1st option sounds fair, big castles are one damn expensive thing

[Tomas]

Option 3
- Fixed Gold Price per building
- Each building carries a set crafting efficiency nerf
- Each building carries a set recruiting efficiency buff
- Each building carries a set fief population buff

That way if you build walls around a village, you gradually turn it into a Castle and lose it's functionality as a village.

For instance a wall and a wooden wall around a village could lower the crafting efficiency by 10%, raise the recruiting efficiency by 10% and raise the population by 50.  A stone wall and keep on the other hand would lower the crafting efficiency by 50%, raise the recruiting efficiency by 50% and raise the population by 1500.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

It shouldn't be too time/labour intensive... Otherwise it has a good chance of turning into Sim City.

Keep it simple what ever the solution is, dead simple.

[chadz]

base maximum amount of objects on visitors in your fief?

[Tomas]

I have to ask if their are any plans to take this idea to its ultimate conclusion?

Imagine ALL fiefs (including castles and towns) staring as basic villages that you can then add to as you wish but each addition you make has a knock-on effect to the fief's population, crafting efficiency and recruiting efficiency.

You would need to be able to destroy the starting huts and terraform the land a bit (already mentioned) but then you could have fully customized fiefs all built with strategy in mind, not just for battle tactics but also for overall strategy to control trade routes and protect borders.  It would be awesome

A rough idea of how it would work

(click to show/hide)

Starting Village:  Population = 200, Max Crafting Efficiency = 60%, Max Recruiting Efficiency = 60%

Adding Walls and Towers:
- Costs gold
- Reduces all efficiencies slightly

Adding a Keep:
- Costs gold
- Reduces all efficiencies slightly

Adding a Barracks
- Costs gold
- Increases Population
- Reduces Crafting Efficiency
- Increases Recruiting Efficiency

Adding a Blacksmith
- Costs gold
- Increases Recruiting Efficiency
- Increases Equipment Crafting Efficiency (Okin has suggested splitting goods and equipment crafting efficiencies and I agree)
- Decrease Goods Crafting Efficiency

Adding a House
- Costs gold
- Increases Population

Adding a Farm
- Costs gold
- Increases Population
- Increases Goods Crafting Efficiency
- Increases Recruiting Efficiency

Adding a Workshop
- Costs gold
- Increases Goods Crafting Efficiency
- Reduces Recruiting Efficiency

Adding a Market
- Costs Gold
- Adds the market function to the fief
- Increases Crafting Efficiency
- Reduces Recruiting Efficiency

Basically, the more you add the more you can customize your fief's population and efficiencies.  However the more you add the more you have to spend on walls and towers to protect what you have