cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Leshma on May 18, 2012, 01:19:18 pm
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Neft human movement a lot, mostly turning speed.
Buff weapon speed.
Less dancing, better combat.
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Reducing turning speed would really only affect those who have sensitivity on maximum, and that's unfair because things outside of the game (like how good your mouse is) contribute to that. Everyone else would just up sensitivity...
It would be cool though if movement speed (especially backpeddling) was reduced, and then a "run" mechanic was added where you double tap W to sprint for a certain amount of time based on your athletics. Then you could also "lunge" in combat if you could control your tapping sufficiently. Beyond that, "dodging" by double tapping A and D would also be cool.
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Compare the dps of two Agility builds one with 180+ wpf and 6 athletics another with ten athletics and 110wpf.
If athletics (turning speed) increases dps more than wpf then the OP'er is correct and rotation speed should be reduced.
Remember you can turn up mouse sensitivity without having a fancy mouse using your computers own settings.
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More dancing = better combat. str nub.
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The issue is currently all builds can rotate faster then the interface, mouse and human can allow.
I vote on not touching it or altering the whole combat system the second would be awesome but I think it might be a little far to go for a small tight-ass community.
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I think it would need just a few lines of code to correct for this but as nothing has happened regarding this devs apparently dont see it as a problem.
Personaly I would implement a feature that limits walking speed proportional to turn speed/ turn range but does not alter the actual turn rate of the character itself on the spot. Right now you can do a 180° turn without losing velocity in a very tight radius.
Turning at 0 degree per second = 100% walk speed
Turning at 180 degree per second = 55% walk speed
Turning at 360 degree per second and above = 10 % walk speed
Mathmatically spoken:
Walk speed ( min 10, max 100) = 100 - ( Turn rate in degree per second / 360 ) x 90
Current acceleration formulars would still apply of course so people wouldnt alter between 10% and 100% of walk speed by spazing out.
And all would be fine.
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Neft human movement a lot, mostly turning speed.
People would turn up sensitivity, it would just be a nerf to lower dpi mouses
Buff weapon speed.
Yea, actualy buff the game speed on the servers
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People would turn up sensitivity, it would just be a nerf to lower dpi mouses
there is a limit for turn speed in the game when running or swinging, it is just set very low and not considering weapon and armor weights and lenghts.
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The issue is currently all builds can rotate faster then the interface, mouse and human can allow.
Maybe it's an issue for you.
The problem with these complicated and weighty ideas, is ignoring the unforeseen consequences, as usual. I am sure though , perhaps if this idea gets shoved down our unwilling throats you will change your tune in a hurry when you can not turn to attack or defend from cavalry.
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As far as realism, it would make sense to limit turn speed the same way that weight/weapon length have and effect on your movement speed. On the other hand, spinning like a helicopter and mowing people down with a 2h or polearm is REALLY FUN.
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Nerf those agiwhores.
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there is a limit for turn speed in the game when running or swinging, it is just set very low and not considering weapon and armor weights and lenghts.
Oh okay. It would be cool if item stats factored into increasing the limit.
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Isn't that a indirect buff to Archers? Mostly Archers can't hit those dancing guys so YES PLEASE...
But I guess everyone will cry again... probably those 2hers :/
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Fuck. No.
Speed both movement and weapon speed up.
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Warband doesn't work the same way in SP and MP. In MP even if you walk or run you can freely turn around as fast as you want (resulting in idiotic GLA whirlwind attacks until a quite old Native patch made it impossible by setting a very soft limit).
More dancing corrupts the combat into a random succession of spam attempts on top of a ping competition, rather than rewarding those that are better at the game aka getting their hits in with feints, holds and chamberblocks.
Turning to the right then moving forward shouldn't be faster than strafing to the right for quick reactions. If you don't agree on that, you are ugly and stupid. There's a reason nobody ever turned their back at their opponent in a real fight and that's exactly this.
Turning should reduce your movement speed and acceleration, as well as moving at high speed or accelerating should reduce your turning abilities. The latter being the most important problem with the current situation. Only a weightless Osain Bolt should be able to sprint forward in one direction and instantly make a 90 degree turn without losing speed. In this game we all are weightless Osain Bolts.
Btw the maximum speed of everybody should be increased, with the same acceleration formula.
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Warband doesn't work the same way in SP and MP. In MP even if you walk or run you can freely turn around as fast as you want (resulting in idiotic GLA whirlwind attacks until a quite old Native patch made it impossible by setting a very soft limit).
More dancing corrupts the combat into a random succession of spam attempts on top of a ping competition, rather than rewarding those that are better at the game aka getting their hits in with feints, holds and chamberblocks.
Turning to the right then moving forward shouldn't be faster than strafing to the right for quick reactions. If you don't agree on that, you are ugly and stupid. There's a reason nobody ever turned their back at their opponent in a real fight and that's exactly this.
Turning should reduce your movement speed and acceleration, as well as moving at high speed or accelerating should reduce your turning abilities. The latter being the most important problem with the current situation. Only a weightless Osain Bolt should be able to sprint forward in one direction and instantly make a 90 degree turn without losing speed. In this game we all are weightless Osain Bolts.
Btw the maximum speed of everybody should be increased, with the same acceleration formula.
Riiiiight.
I like getting killed by the guys that are 'better at the game' who are smart enough to figure out timing and handle a dancer.
I 'do not agree' with that, my ugliness or stupidity is not a factor though, as this is a game. Movements are analogies, not exact representations. When you start adding limits because of 'reality' to this flawed model you are detracting from the flow of the game.
So why do you really want this? You want everybody to stand toe to toe until a block failure or to enjoy, as you put it, a ping spam competition? Know what is daft? Holding a weapon in the ready position as long as you want then swinging it as well as if you had wound up and swung immediately. There is an endless list of what is daft in the game, but you advocate eliminating a playstyle because you do not like it.
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I 'do not agree' with that, my ugliness or stupidity is not a factor though, as this is a game. Movements are analogies, not exact representations. When you start adding limits because of 'reality' to this flawed model you are detracting from the flow of the game.
Or adding to it, depending on your subjective preferences. Mount and Blade wouldn't have been created if it wasn't for some turkish dude's hunkering for 'reality'. I'll bet you a +3 katana that Armagan created directional combat as a vehicle for realism and not the other way around. But you probably already have all the katanas you'll ever need.
So why do you really want this? You want everybody to stand toe to toe until a block failure or to enjoy, as you put it, a ping spam competition? Know what is daft? Holding a weapon in the ready position as long as you want then swinging it as well as if you had wound up and swung immediately. There is an endless list of what is daft in the game, but you advocate eliminating a playstyle because you do not like it.
I think players would naturally compensate by increasing athletics and weapon master, playing cavalry, playing a ranged class, and/or favoring faster weapons. Swinging 2h and polearms around like light-sabers is Hollywood cool and all, but it detracts from what I see as the flow of the game.
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If you nerf infantry turning / movement speed, then imagine how much fun the cavalry will have. :twisted:
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Or adding to it, depending on your subjective preferences. Mount and Blade wouldn't have been created if it wasn't for some turkish dude's hunkering for 'reality'. I'll bet you a +3 katana that Armagan created directional combat as a vehicle for realism and not the other way around. But you probably already have all the katanas you'll ever need.
I think players would naturally compensate by increasing athletics and weapon master, playing cavalry, playing a ranged class, and/or favoring faster weapons. Swinging 2h and polearms around like light-sabers is Hollywood cool and all, but it detracts from what I see as the flow of the game.
Stay on target Red 5!
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I'd be able to understand this topic if I knew what dancing was.
Explain plox.
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I'd be able to understand this topic if I knew what dancing was.
Explain plox.
You dodge enemy attack, then come in and strike. Dance out of their range, strike again...
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You dodge enemy attack, then come in and strike. Dance out of their range, strike again...
Oh, so it's like people with longswords and 18/21 builds.
Cause my 4 athletics doesn't permit that.
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I'd be able to understand this topic if I knew what dancing was.
Explain plox.
http://www.tubechop.com/watch/377101
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Riiiiight.
I like getting killed by the guys that are 'better at the game' who are smart enough to figure out timing and handle a dancer.
I 'do not agree' with that, my ugliness or stupidity is not a factor though, as this is a game. Movements are analogies, not exact representations. When you start adding limits because of 'reality' to this flawed model you are detracting from the flow of the game.
So why do you really want this? You want everybody to stand toe to toe until a block failure or to enjoy, as you put it, a ping spam competition? Know what is daft? Holding a weapon in the ready position as long as you want then swinging it as well as if you had wound up and swung immediately. There is an endless list of what is daft in the game, but you advocate eliminating a playstyle because you do not like it.
I don't think I have actual problems handling dancers in a duel, but they sure are boring as hell to fight. Because they keep on trying to get out of my reach, they completely suppress my creativity since making proper feints is risky if their intent is to spam. So I just default to Paul mode and the fight becomes five times longer than what it should. Also, I don't really want to reduce dancing, I only want the correct tools to be used in the correct situations. Turning around while moving "forward" shouldn't be the fastest way to dance. Strafing should.
As time goes by, everybody learns to block better and reach/movement speed becomes more important as a result. This has been going on for years now and I think the combat was much more fun back when only the good players could reliably block decent feints. The whole game was intented and has been balanced with that skill level in mind (if you don't believe me just look at how ridiculous the ranged weapons are in Native, they are balanced around melee weapons that kill very swiftly).
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I don't think I have actual problems handling dancers in a duel, but they sure are boring as hell to fight. Because they keep on trying to get out of my reach, they completely suppress my creativity since making proper feints is risky if their intent is to spam. So I just default to Paul mode and the fight becomes five times longer than what it should. Also, I don't really want to reduce dancing, I only want the correct tools to be used in the correct situations. Turning around while moving "forward" shouldn't be the fastest way to dance. Strafing should.
As time goes by, everybody learns to block better and reach/movement speed becomes more important as a result. This has been going on for years now and I think the combat was much more fun back when only the good players could reliably block decent feints. The whole game was intented and has been balanced with that skill level in mind (if you don't believe me just look at how ridiculous the ranged weapons are in Native, they are balanced around melee weapons that kill very swiftly).
Help! I'm being suppressed!
Ah the good old days. Well, if you blocked one of MY feints in the good old days you were already dead, so I will assume you mean block an attack after a feint. If wading through unskilled newbies was more fun, I do not think you and I can see the same things.
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Just buff the game speed.
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So this way you're omitting the movement part of the combat and generally making it two stationary players exchanging blows, feints and blocks? Doesn't sound very appealing to me.
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Help! I'm being suppressed!
Ah the good old days. Well, if you blocked one of MY feints in the good old days you were already dead, so I will assume you mean block an attack after a feint. If wading through unskilled newbies was more fun, I do not think you and I can see the same things.
Suppressed = bad word choice. Should have been "denied" or something of the like. I suppose you understand anyway. And when I say blocking a feint yes I mean the real attack after the feints. By feint I mean the whole succession of false attacks followed by the real one.
What I said is that a combat between similarly skilled players was more fun than it is now, when blocking wasn't that trivial. Of course if I could time travel back then with my present day experience I would crush the majority of players. You can already experience that to a lesser degree by playing on 22nd siege if you manage to bypass the arrowstorm.
So this way you're omitting the movement part of the combat and generally making it two stationary players exchanging blows, feints and blocks? Doesn't sound very appealing to me.
Standing combat can be much more interesting than what you'd think, especially with the likes of Saint. And it sure is one of the best ways to learn the basics of combat faster. Of course the heart of the combat is when both the attack/block mechanisms and movement are balanced, but I find it appaling that today new players think having a long and fast weapon while moving randomly is the key to everything when they are confronted to the blocking learning curve.
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Standing combat can be much more interesting than what you'd think, especially with the likes of Saint. And it sure is one of the best ways to learn the basics of combat faster. Of course the heart of the combat is when both the attack/block mechanisms and movement are balanced, but I find it appaling that today new players think having a long and fast weapon while moving randomly is the key to everything when they are confronted to the blocking learning curve.
So how will you go about defeating good blockers? Speed up the swing speed too much and high/medium pings suffer. Leave it as it is and duels will literally last forever. Better footwork is what wins duels between good blockers.
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I honestly doubt high pingers suffer more when the weapons are slightly faster than when people can dance as fast as to phase through each other like qwarks/pushing each other/teleporting. This already happens and is definetly due to high ping/server not keeping up, whereas wrong block/attack animation problems occur clientside.
Of course the best solution would be to increase the number of attack directions or even make it completely free in 360 degrees, with blocks working the same way and covering a certain radius, but we will have to wait for M&B 2 or another game for that.
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Suppressed = bad word choice. Should have been "denied" or something of the like. I suppose you understand anyway. And when I say blocking a feint yes I mean the real attack after the feints. By feint I mean the whole succession of false attacks followed by the real one.
What I said is that a combat between similarly skilled players was more fun than it is now, when blocking wasn't that trivial. Of course if I could time travel back then with my present day experience I would crush the majority of players. You can already experience that to a lesser degree by playing on 22nd siege if you manage to bypass the arrowstorm.
Standing combat can be much more interesting than what you'd think, especially with the likes of Saint. And it sure is one of the best ways to learn the basics of combat faster. Of course the heart of the combat is when both the attack/block mechanisms and movement are balanced, but I find it appaling that today new players think having a long and fast weapon while moving randomly is the key to everything when they are confronted to the blocking learning curve.
1. I understand merely that you feel stifled, and would stifle a playstyle you do not like, a playstyle which is easy enough to counter.
2. That's not what you said at all, but I totally endorse the 'blocking wasn't trivial' bit. I haven't played seige in ages, and I do not recal which eu server is actually best for me, but who knows, I may get banned for something silly and be forced go looking for fun.
3. Standing combat is far easier then moving around.