cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Siberian_Wolf on May 11, 2012, 03:46:13 am

Title: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 11, 2012, 03:46:13 am
As we all know, 2 Handers have been the top class to play as. With their animations to high speed and damage they rule crpg.
I suggest a nerf to all 2 Hander weapon damage and speed to balance it out.
:D
* Takes a bucket out* Now let me see this bucket filled with the tears of all who dont support it.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 11, 2012, 03:51:47 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Rainbow on May 11, 2012, 03:55:22 am
lol
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Bobthehero on May 11, 2012, 04:25:51 am
Archer troll, buff his intelligence by 500% imo.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: OpenPalm on May 11, 2012, 05:31:04 am
Buff morningstar speed!   8-)
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: TurmoilTom on May 11, 2012, 06:00:05 am
Anyone remember the 2h right swing nerf a while back? Oh boy, that got reverted quick.

Anyway, yeah, seems to me like 2h is definitely dominant. I've said this for my past 7 gens: "2h is so op." iirc 6 of those 7 gens were as a 2h.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Life on May 11, 2012, 06:01:40 am
As we all know, 2 Handers have been the top class to play as. With their animations to high speed and damage they rule crpg.
I suggest a nerf to all 2 Hander weapon damage and speed to balance it out.
:D
* Takes a bucket out* Now let me see this bucket filled with the tears of all who dont support it.

QQ more.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Arrowblood on May 11, 2012, 07:10:41 am
2handers are op, they run arround eith 30/30 builds a md hack n slay all poor archers neref nerf nferf nerf nerf nernerfnerfnerfnerffnerfnernfnenrnrng rjgnporguizhaprgik
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Vibe on May 11, 2012, 09:10:03 am
How about we place a bucket for OP's tears instead?
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: _Tak_ on May 11, 2012, 09:12:13 am
+1, its about time to nerf 2 Handers, they are the most played-class in crpg, thats why no one ever whine about them.

After they got nerf just for a while they quickly got buff again, dev love 2 handers indeed
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Vibe on May 11, 2012, 09:15:11 am
+1, its about time to nerf 2 Handers, they are the most played-class in crpg, thats why no one ever whine about them.

After they got nerf just for a while they quickly got buff again, dev love 2 handers indeed

How about you present why they are OP first? Just because they're the most played-class doesn't mean they're OP.

PS: that nerf a while ago was a just a bad solution to hiltslash, not a 2h nerf.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Leshma on May 11, 2012, 09:39:19 am
They could bring back that right swing nerf, personally I don't give a damn. Won't affect me in any way (I'll just spam left swing and overheads :P).

I'm also ok with both damage and speed nerfs but in that case polearms will have to nerfed as well, to keep the balance between those two classes.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: v/onMega on May 11, 2012, 10:43:17 am
Always wonder are ppl. just bored and repeat stupid threads?

2 h OP? I dont think so.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Adamar on May 11, 2012, 11:30:15 am
2 handers have always dominated the scoreboard, they noobspam too frequently. +1
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Lech on May 11, 2012, 11:51:57 am
2 handers have always dominated the scoreboard, they noobspam too frequently. +1

Because people let them.

And scoreboard isn't everything, when i and random 2h go against one guy it's more likely that 2h will get the frag even if i will do most of the hard work (knock him down with the mace, stun, force him to block wrong way), and i don't give a shit because the enemy will be dead and most likely 2 of us will be alive to kill other people. Scoreboard isn't everything.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Adamar on May 11, 2012, 12:06:21 pm
Because people let them.

And scoreboard isn't everything, when i and random 2h go against one guy it's more likely that 2h will get the frag even if i will do most of the hard work (knock him down with the mace, stun, force him to block wrong way), and i don't give a shit because the enemy will be dead and most likely 2 of us will be alive to kill other people. Scoreboard isn't everything.

Precisely why they should work more for their kills rather than just spam damage.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Vibe on May 11, 2012, 12:10:08 pm
Precisely why they should work more for their kills rather than just spam damage.

Que?
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Adamar on May 11, 2012, 12:39:36 pm
Que?

They do less and profit more, that's the whole point of this thread. It's bad when the funniest build is also the most rewarding.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Vibe on May 11, 2012, 12:41:40 pm
They do less and profit more, that's the whole point of this thread. It's bad when the funniest build is also the most rewarding.

You can be a noob spammer just as well with polearms.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Son Of Odin on May 11, 2012, 12:45:57 pm
You can be a noob spammer just as well with polearms.
And with 1h
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Vibe on May 11, 2012, 12:55:10 pm
And with 1h

That's not true at all. A noob spamming with 1h is not going to be as dangerous as a noob spamming with 2h/pole.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on May 11, 2012, 03:14:26 pm
DON'T NERF TWOHANDERS!!! BUFF ONEHANDERS!!! THEY SHOULD BE THE MOST PLAYED CLASS!!!
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 11, 2012, 07:47:39 pm
Thank you for all the supporters, your contribution will definately help.

As to the non-supporters *gets another bucket* The last bucket-o-tears has filled up, here is another bucket to cry in.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: zagibu on May 11, 2012, 08:52:23 pm
I like how you centered your text. You have class.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: RandomDude on May 11, 2012, 09:26:57 pm
2h have always been op. The only reason they werent allowed to slice incoming missiles was because it was felt that no1 would want to play other classes i (read cannon fodder) if they had that ability also.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on May 11, 2012, 09:29:41 pm
BUFF RANGED !!!!!!11111one
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on May 11, 2012, 11:50:33 pm
if 2h is better it should be, playing as 2h is alot harder than being a sheilder, which is easy mode, its like riding a bike with training wheels.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: TurmoilTom on May 12, 2012, 12:03:15 am
if 2h is better it should be, playing as 2h is alot harder than being a sheilder, which is easy mode, its like riding a bike with training wheels.

After over half a dozen gens of 2h I switched to shielder last gen and suffered a massive blow to my survivability and kdr.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: ArchonAlarion on May 13, 2012, 09:38:52 am
Duel Server.

So long as battles consist of a series of 1v1 encounters, 2h weapons will dominate.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Ronin on May 13, 2012, 01:38:06 pm
Hmm, let's compare being a twohander in crpg to other mods

-In crpg - a twohander can wear heavy armor from the first round. Also, cavalry cannot outreach them and archers are nerfed so hard that they are less of a problem in general. Also being able to have very good stats (PS, Ath, IF) and very good weapons (Greatswords, Mauls, Katana, Flamberge, Axes, Bar Mace, Cleaver, Bardiches) and very good armor (Anything, especially a loomed set) makes them a true force to be reckoned with. Also note that, armor weights are halved. One example is Mail Hauberk (10.3 weight in crpg, around 20 weight in Native).

-In Warband native - Seeing a twohander is not very common. Seeing a twohander without shield+onehand is much more uncommon. Due to the reason that even heavy armor doesn't protect much and is helluva expensive to get. Cav can outreach you, and archers are super strong. Lowest damage short bow is among the best bows due to excellent fire rate. Archers are also very good in melee, meaning even if you can reach them they fight as good as any other infantry. Lower armor ratio also means, a two hander should be very careful at melee as well. Not very effective spam, due to the low armor ratio in general.

-In Ogniem i Miaczem (also known as WFaS) - Swedish infantry and muscovite troops have good two handed weapons and shield is less of a requirement due to the superiority of firearms. Yet, two handeds are very slow (around 90- 80 speed rating) to be effective spam weapons.

-In Vikingr - Twohanded (also polearm) is not very common still. There are no heavy armor, but every piece of armor is actually very heavy in terms of weight (a tunic has around 20-30). So that you can not ninja. Which means that you can not dodge ranged and have to rely on your shield against ranged (mostly throwing). Still, berserker class has no access to shields which forces them to benefit from their teammates' shields. Similiar to WFaS, those heavy long axes are far from being good spam weapons.

-PWmod - Two hander is very similiar to native here, unlike the armor ratio. But since this mod is not all of fighting, we can skip this mod. Yet, again everyone is forced to carry a shield when going into battle no matter what; or they will just shoot you.

Well, you might say that nothing is perfect. I say yes! Perhaps the other mods are not very good examples of a true balance, and crpg is the one should be inspiring them. But, ugh NO!!! The truth is, I've seen that twohandeds/poles can be very effective if you know how to use them in those mods. Besides no one is crying if they fail as a twohander. It's just that they are not an hardcore infantry class and everyone knows it. All in all (except WFaS), they have to carry something that should protect them against ranged and has to play extremely good/careful to gain the upper hand in melee.

If playing as an archer, shielder is frustrating until level 24-25 and even then, something difficult to benefit greatly at level 30; the two hander should be something similiar.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Kafein on May 13, 2012, 02:03:32 pm
More damage and less speed please. Also, more weight to represent the encucumberance that a 2h weapon is when you run.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 13, 2012, 07:05:45 pm
More damage and less speed please. Also, more weight to represent the encucumberance that a 2h weapon is when you run.

2 Handers already 1 hits, extra damage not needed
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Ronin on May 13, 2012, 07:06:19 pm
Yah, just lower their speed and they should be fine.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Bobthehero on May 13, 2012, 09:06:27 pm
Taking other mods is a bad example, there's no slot limit or non sheatable stuff and you can't change your stats to fit your class, some classes also have more skill than they could have at this level.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Teeth on May 13, 2012, 09:15:45 pm
The class balance in Native still amazes me, please don't tell me you'd like to see that in cRPG. The Mount&Blade devs create a combat system that is farkin awesome and then they proceed to make ranged classes so strong so that half the combat system has to be thrown out of the window and replaced by a simple right click if you don't think that being a porcupine is something for you.

The class balance in cRPG has never been this good. If anything polearms is the stronger melee class, atleast I think they are the easiest class.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Okkam on May 13, 2012, 09:40:00 pm
Yes, our balance is best. We only add some items to make balance better.

Enjoy our balanced
Great maul
Long Maul
Flamberge
Xbows
Any freaksword after sword of war
Plated charger
Heavy but lightweight armors
throwing lances
superfast onhanders

et cetera et cetera...
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Zisa on May 13, 2012, 09:43:13 pm
As we all know, 2 Handers have been the top class to play as. With their animations to high speed and damage they rule crpg.
I suggest a nerf to all 2 Hander weapon damage and speed to balance it out.
:D
* Takes a bucket out* Now let me see this bucket filled with the tears of all who dont support it.
go fuck yourself. Preferably in siberia, or the ass.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 13, 2012, 10:02:02 pm
go fuck yourself. Preferably in siberia, or the ass.

Careful to hide your screen, your mom might ground you for using such naughty words.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Ronin on May 14, 2012, 12:37:22 am
Meh. You did not get what wanted to say. I did not say make it similiar to the native. It's just that, playing native as a melee or ranged class (doesn't matter which) is truly fun. As an archer, you send your arrows at exactly where you want them to be. And as a melee class, you can block them with your shield. They are both fun, and have no drawbacks. After all we are playing to have fun. That's simple as that.

Playing as a crippled goblin archer (crpg archer) is not fun really. When there are Aragorns (two handers) slashing their targets with ease and be the top on the scoreboard. Ok let's screw scoreboard as well. Playing is a twohander is more rewarding. You figure out what should be done I don't give much of a shit. But it shouldn't be that complex. The principle of a game should be simple; grab your axe, sword, lance or bow and have loads of fun.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 14, 2012, 02:15:28 am
Meh. You did not get what wanted to say. I did not say make it similiar to the native. It's just that, playing native as a melee or ranged class (doesn't matter which) is truly fun. As an archer, you send your arrows at exactly where you want them to be. And as a melee class, you can block them with your shield. They are both fun, and have no drawbacks. After all we are playing to have fun. That's simple as that.

Playing as a crippled goblin archer (crpg archer) is not fun really. When there are Aragorns (two handers) slashing their targets with ease and be the top on the scoreboard. Ok let's screw scoreboard as well. Playing is a twohander is more rewarding. You figure out what should be done I don't give much of a shit. But it shouldn't be that complex. The principle of a game should be simple; grab your axe, sword, lance or bow and have loads of fun.

your absolutely right, but I dont believe we need to buff anything, this isn't a buff thread. I wish a nerf on the most dominating class. Its perfect logic, ifnthere is a class that is obviously dominate, theres something there thats putting it to an advatage over every other class = unbalanced. So make it balanced!
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: RandomDude on May 14, 2012, 02:56:54 am
Fully loomed set of gothic plate + sallet (one of the 3 real plate armours) + mw flamberge

vs


Archer with loomed gear.

Both lvl 30.

Archer needs 1 hs to take the 2h out.

I dont think archery is weak.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Digglez on May 14, 2012, 03:12:58 am
I'm fine with their damage and speed, but animation exploitation is pretty horribly gay.

If the game actually made realistic sweet spots such as the first 1/3 of a 2h'er would never do any damage, half these guys would GTX immediately
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Zisa on May 14, 2012, 03:24:11 am
Careful to hide your screen, your mom might ground you for using such naughty words.
She suggested such ongoing whine from the stupid no longer merits even a polite response, even to someone so age challenged (mentally) as to bring mom's into it.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: owens on May 14, 2012, 03:32:55 am
1v1

In practice
1H no shield > 2H > polearm

Statistically
Polearm > 2H > 1H

The real issue for 1v1 combat is the animations 1H animations are more difficult to predict and give different attacks variable reaches (fore hand vs backhand).

Between polearms and 2h the balance really isn't bad. Of course style, skill, build and load out change this but for me the game is well balanced if anything damage for 1h should be higher in general if he 1H animation is changed.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: San on May 14, 2012, 04:02:33 am
I'd rather they speed up 1h right swing and fix polearm left swing's hitbox. It's pointless to have unusable swing directions at times.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Visconti on May 14, 2012, 04:25:47 am
Well.... with 1h you got that handy little shield to hide behind, and with polearms you have the polestagger and a much wider variety of weapons to choose from, as well as being nearly as good as a 2h in melee. And honestly, i see an even amount of polearms/shielders/2hs in a server.

On a side note, the devs shouldnt nerf anything in the current cRPG, its just gonna continue to dumb down the combat and make it more robotic.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: owens on May 14, 2012, 04:34:19 am
Haha. I was thinking the exact opposite increasing damage for right swing on 1H.

My advice would be to leave the game how it is ATM. Alternatively increase every weapons speed by 1.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 14, 2012, 10:38:15 am
She suggested such ongoing whine from the stupid no longer merits even a polite response, even to someone so age challenged (mentally) as to bring mom's into it.

As everyone else is having a mature arguement about an ovbious problem, you choose to make such a childish response, it still amazes me.

It's the only response possible to a person who brings perfanity into a thread. Maturity goes a long way kid, try it.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 14, 2012, 10:43:31 am
Well.... with 1h you got that handy little shield to hide behind, and with polearms you have the polestagger and a much wider variety of weapons to choose from, as well as being nearly as good as a 2h in melee. And honestly, i see an even amount of polearms/shielders/2hs in a server.

On a side note, the devs shouldnt nerf anything in the current cRPG, its just gonna continue to dumb down the combat and make it more robotic.

Then the only other option I would like to see it a buff to everything else, but I believe that will create more chaos then nerfing 2h.

Im still open to suggestions and they still are suggestions whether I like them or not. So as a remonder ( like the post above ) let's try to keep things mature like most of us have.



EDIT: POLL UP
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Vibe on May 14, 2012, 11:35:56 am
Imo, the balance between melee weapons is just fine right now.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Lech on May 14, 2012, 01:03:17 pm
I would like to see unfucked speed bonus mechanic so hilt hits aren't as effective for 2h and polearms. If it's impossible, i would either speed up 1h  stab chambering and right swing or decrease speed of 2h and polearm stab.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 14, 2012, 02:06:26 pm
stop discussion. 2h animations gonna get removed, end of story.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Zisa on May 14, 2012, 03:33:44 pm
As everyone else is having a mature arguement about an ovbious problem, you choose to make such a childish response, it still amazes me.

It's the only response possible to a person who brings perfanity into a thread. Maturity goes a long way kid, try it.
STFU dumbass. Double dumbass.
This whine has been going on forever. And it's unjustified, but if you keep repeating it....
Here's a clue you scrub, the people on top of the leader board are going to be there if they are using 2h, polearm or 1hander. Sometimes even if they are using cav or archery.

Also, make the game faster, or at least infantry.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 14, 2012, 04:49:34 pm
STFU dumbass. Double dumbass.
This whine has been going on forever. And it's unjustified, but if you keep repeating it....
Here's a clue you scrub, the people on top of the leader board are going to be there if they are using 2h, polearm or 1hander. Sometimes even if they are using cav or archery.

Also, make the game faster, or at least infantry.

Incase you didn't see, or can't read and comprihend what you see, this isn't a whine/rage thread. I merely started with an OPINION and let things ho on from there. This is where the maturity of most people come in, they say their ideas and I say mine. Then I take up all the mature ideas ive seen and add them to a poll. So incase you didn't notice, this discussion about the people who use 2handers, its about the reason they use them. Bring your childish behavior to another thread, this one already stinks of your useless shit.

The next comments you do will be reported as spam and ignored. For me, this aruement stops here.


( Thank you for the bolded suggestion )
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Teeth on May 14, 2012, 05:00:08 pm
Siberian_Wolf I'm glad the maturity just drips from your own posts.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 14, 2012, 05:03:16 pm
Siberian_Wolf I'm glad the maturity just drips from your own posts.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Tears of Destiny on May 14, 2012, 06:21:38 pm
* Takes a bucket out* Now let me see this bucket filled with the tears of all who dont support it.

Well this is your problem, really, of why a lot of people (myself included) did not take the thread seriously. You are inviting a certain type of behavior due to posting this which insinuates that anyone who dares disagree with you is a QQer/troll.

The OP often sets the mood for the entire thread, yours certainly did.

Also, for future reference, try avoiding the use of "as we all know" as if that were true then this thread would not be needed even in the first place. Try adding data (such as the released damage percentage numbers), or some sort of proper argument.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Siberian_Wolf on May 14, 2012, 07:32:17 pm
Well this is your problem, really, of why a lot of people (myself included) did not take the thread seriously. You are inviting a certain type of behavior due to posting this which insinuates that anyone who dares disagree with you is a QQer/troll.

The OP often sets the mood for the entire thread, yours certainly did.

Also, for future reference, try avoiding the use of "as we all know" as if that were true then this thread would not be needed even in the first place. Try adding data (such as the released damage percentage numbers), or some sort of proper argument.

People may disagree, I dont label them trolls. Trolls are the people who choose to show their disagreement in a childish way (cursing, stupid pictures, etc ).

For the second paragraph, This is a post where I let the public discuss. I give an abritrary starting point where they can lay their arguement, then I put mine. I highly doubt evidence is needed when you look around at the most popular weapon choice, I'm hoping this thread would make people ask themselves WHY its so popular.

Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Zisa on May 14, 2012, 09:47:32 pm
As we all know, 2 Handers have been the top class to play as. With their animations to high speed and damage they rule crpg.
I suggest a nerf to all 2 Hander weapon damage and speed to balance it out.
:D
* Takes a bucket out* Now let me see this bucket filled with the tears of all who dont support it.
In case you missed/can't comprehend/forgot what a fucktard you are.
Try searching the forums for OP 2handers or something - a million scrubs can't be wrong, can they?
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Phew on May 14, 2012, 10:27:46 pm
There are only three problems with 2h, and two of them are problems with every melee weapon type:

1. The 2h "sweet spot" is too big: someone can start a right swing, and turn into the swing so it makes contact while the weapon is still behind their right shoulder, and it hits for full damage. Compare that to 1h right swing, which will glance during the first ~40% of the swing animation. Side swings from every weapon should only hit for full damage if the target is within about +/-45 degrees directly in front of them.

2. All thrust attacks are more effective when you thrust in the wrong direction then spin into your opponent. This is stupid and unrealistic. In the real world, if you wanted to poke someone with a weapon, you poked straight at them. Doing this in cRPG usually causes you to glance, so people have taught themselves to spinthrust, which looks ridiculous, but is highly effective. 2H just happen to be most able to take advantage of this ridiculous mechanic, because of the huge reach on the 2h thrust. However, it's equally silly with an awlpike or espada.

3. Currently, you can overhead someone, miss, then drag your weapon along the ground until you make contact for full damage. Good players deliberately abuse this mechanic to kill people after they thought it was safe to drop their block. 2h has the longest-duration (and reach) overhead animation, so they are most able to abuse this mechanic, although polearm and 1h can also use this tactic to a lesser extent.

Fix the three issues above, then tone down pole stun, and a lot of the whining about melee mechanics would go away. Then everyone could go back to whining about archers, to which I say just bring a damn shield like everyone else in the history of warfare did.

Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Patoson on May 14, 2012, 10:35:02 pm
(click to show/hide)

Finally some wise advice.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Bobthehero on May 14, 2012, 10:35:33 pm
They brought shields until they developped plate armor that are arrow proof, something the cRPG plate isn't.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: zagibu on May 14, 2012, 10:41:38 pm
There are only three problems with 2h, and two of them are problems with every melee weapon type:

1. The 2h "sweet spot" is too big: someone can start a right swing, and turn into the swing so it makes contact while the weapon is still behind their right shoulder, and it hits for full damage. Compare that to 1h right swing, which will glance during the first ~40% of the swing animation. Side swings from every weapon should only hit for full damage if the target is within about +/-45 degrees directly in front of them.

2. All thrust attacks are more effective when you thrust in the wrong direction then spin into your opponent. This is stupid and unrealistic. In the real world, if you wanted to poke someone with a weapon, you poked straight at them. Doing this in cRPG usually causes you to glance, so people have taught themselves to spinthrust, which looks ridiculous, but is highly effective. 2H just happen to be most able to take advantage of this ridiculous mechanic, because of the huge reach on the 2h thrust. However, it's equally silly with an awlpike or espada.

3. Currently, you can overhead someone, miss, then drag your weapon along the ground until you make contact for full damage. Good players deliberately abuse this mechanic to kill people after they thought it was safe to drop their block. 2h has the longest-duration (and reach) overhead animation, so they are most able to abuse this mechanic, although polearm and 1h can also use this tactic to a lesser extent.

Fix the three issues above, then tone down pole stagger, and a lot of the whining about melee mechanics would go away. Then everyone could go back to whining about archers, to which I say just bring a damn shield like everyone else in the history of warfare did.

Exactly that. Make sure weapons have huge chance of bouncing outside of ideal attack angle (fixes point 1), then introduce a character turn rate limit while swinging (fixes both 2 and 3 at the same time). While you're at it, maybe also make the crosshair of ranged go wide when they turn fast while holding a shot.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: XyNox on May 14, 2012, 10:44:47 pm
While you're at it, maybe also make the crosshair of ranged go wide when they turn fast while holding a shot.

Already in game.

+1 Phew
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on May 14, 2012, 11:26:15 pm
There are only three problems with 2h, and two of them are problems with every melee weapon type:

1. The 2h "sweet spot" is too big: someone can start a right swing, and turn into the swing so it makes contact while the weapon is still behind their right shoulder, and it hits for full damage. Compare that to 1h right swing, which will glance during the first ~40% of the swing animation. Side swings from every weapon should only hit for full damage if the target is within about +/-45 degrees directly in front of them.

2. All thrust attacks are more effective when you thrust in the wrong direction then spin into your opponent. This is stupid and unrealistic. In the real world, if you wanted to poke someone with a weapon, you poked straight at them. Doing this in cRPG usually causes you to glance, so people have taught themselves to spinthrust, which looks ridiculous, but is highly effective. 2H just happen to be most able to take advantage of this ridiculous mechanic, because of the huge reach on the 2h thrust. However, it's equally silly with an awlpike or espada.

3. Currently, you can overhead someone, miss, then drag your weapon along the ground until you make contact for full damage. Good players deliberately abuse this mechanic to kill people after they thought it was safe to drop their block. 2h has the longest-duration (and reach) overhead animation, so they are most able to abuse this mechanic, although polearm and 1h can also use this tactic to a lesser extent.

Fix the three issues above, then tone down pole stagger, and a lot of the whining about melee mechanics would go away. Then everyone could go back to whining about archers, to which I say just bring a damn shield like everyone else in the history of warfare did.
You could have saved yourself that stupid "bring shield"-sentence, spoiled your good post.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Leshma on May 15, 2012, 01:53:36 am
I'm totally okay with 1h buff, it is a bit UP. But shields must be nerfed in that case. Actually certain shielder builds. Make shields dependent on STR, nerf bundle of sticks builds like kinngrimm's.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Casimir on May 15, 2012, 01:59:52 am

3. Currently, you can overhead someone, miss, then drag your weapon along the ground until you make contact for full damage. Good players deliberately abuse this mechanic to kill people after they thought it was safe to drop their block. 2h has the longest-duration (and reach) overhead animation, so they are most able to abuse this mechanic, although polearm and 1h can also use this tactic to a lesser extent.

2h overhead does have a nasty tendency to clip objects that are behind you, even on flat ground.

Tested on the duel server, and even with no players or objects around your overhead will occasionally 'wiff' halfway through the animation.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Kafein on May 15, 2012, 04:58:32 am
2h overhead does have a nasty tendency to clip objects that are behind you, even on flat ground.

Tested on the duel server, and even with no players or objects around your overhead will occasionally 'wiff' halfway through the animation.

Long (100+ length) one handers can do it too, be it allies or a wall behind you. And naturally polearms do it all the time. I don't really like this tbh. Any non-retarded person would not strike from a horizontal backwards angle all the way up and down to the ground. It's completely unnecessary even if you want to get the greatest possible momentum.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Teeth on May 15, 2012, 12:41:43 pm
Long (100+ length) one handers can do it too, be it allies or a wall behind you. And naturally polearms do it all the time. I don't really like this tbh. Any non-retarded person would not strike from a horizontal backwards angle all the way up and down to the ground. It's completely unnecessary even if you want to get the greatest possible momentum.
Yup, I have been saying this ever since we got early active attacks. Don't make swings active until they are atleast no longer behind you. The completely vertical and horizontal striking is something no person would do in IRL, so its not really fair to punish long weapons because they have retarded animations.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Patoson on May 15, 2012, 03:14:32 pm
I think it would be feasible to replace greatswords' stab with polearms', which feels more natural than the current, as long as polestagger is removed.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Vibe on May 15, 2012, 07:20:13 pm
Leave everything as it is. If you guys haven't noticed there is extremely little threads of nerf x melee weapon, except from über bads or eternally biased people. Think the balance really is quite okay right now.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: joseph590 on June 07, 2012, 04:25:35 am
+1
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: San on June 07, 2012, 10:17:37 am
I'm totally okay with 1h buff, it is a bit UP. But shields must be nerfed in that case. Actually certain shielder builds. Make shields dependent on STR, nerf bundle of sticks builds like kinngrimm's.

Surprised I missed this. Strength 1h is pretty great with certain weapons imo. Biggest 1h change I would like would be to speed up right swing slightly, make it as fast as overhead.
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Bobthehero on June 07, 2012, 09:44:53 pm
Surprised I missed this. Strength 1h is pretty great with certain weapons imo

Lies and slander :P
Title: Re: 2 Handers
Post by: Elmetiacos on June 08, 2012, 01:14:55 am
I say buff katana, red wisby gauntlets, light leather boots, Turkish robe and Khergit lady leather hat, but nerf everything else.