No. Siege is far less about sitting on the flag as defense since the flow of battle is more predictable. On most maps, defenders know roughly where they need to be in relation to the main body of the enemy. With ladders, defending players need to be on the lookout all the time for sneaky players trying to steal the flag or open gates without a fight. Ladders also makes maps far harder to balance, since walls often become no obstacle to attackers (sometimes walls even become a pathway for enemy ladders straight to the flag!).
......
and trying to use your brain is not fun?
Well, we definitively have a different definition of "fun"
sieges maps are balanced around chokepoints, ladders bypass them and turn way too many maps in favour of attackers.Then may I suggest we get some new maps instead of cut off an awesome feature?
Just make it so that they are destroyed when their angle is less than 30° or something. Would fix most ladder-bridge issues.
and trying to use your brain is not fun?
Well, we definitively have a different definition of "fun"
...Now it looks a bit better.
Plus no ladders ruin all the fun part, sneaking and surprise attacks.
I can't believe this. What the hell is up with these votes? Have people really already forgotten how horrible ladders were? 53% wants ladders back in battle, my mind is just blown.
You really don't remember the desert maps where every round multiple roofs were filled with dozens of archers? The rounds that were long and campy cause the archers wanted to stay on the roof as long as possible? You guys really don't remember bundle of stickss like Sir_Agor and Shikoshugi_Tiborur being on the roof the entire map and only go down when the admin warns? Never been a twohander that has to wait behind a wall for minutes because the guys on the roof are unreachable?
Even in siege ladders made it incredibly easy for clans to get a constant x5. They just build a ladder path to the flag. The only viable defence tactic was camping the flag, instead of a multiple stage fight that we have now. There was no balance at all, its impossible to make balanced maps with such a freedom of movement.
You people make me sick.
NO. Ladder-spam almost totally destroyed siege . It is something that cant be controlled.
For those who forget how that was horrible, here some screens.(click to show/hide)
I can't believe this. What the hell is up with these votes? Have people really already forgotten how horrible ladders were? 53% wants ladders back in battle, my mind is just blown.
You really don't remember the desert maps where every round multiple roofs were filled with dozens of archers? The rounds that were long and campy cause the archers wanted to stay on the roof as long as possible? You guys really don't remember bundle of stickss like Sir_Agor and Shikoshugi_Tiborur being on the roof the entire map and only go down when the admin warns? Never been a twohander that has to wait behind a wall for minutes because the guys on the roof are unreachable?
Even in siege ladders made it incredibly easy for clans to get a constant x5. They just build a ladder path to the flag. The only viable defence tactic was camping the flag, instead of a multiple stage fight that we have now. There was no balance at all, its impossible to make balanced maps with such a freedom of movement.
You people make me sick.
Yes, Archers camping all the roofs again, slaughtering everyone while being inaccessible. This is exactly what this mod needs +1(click to show/hide)
the biggest problem aren't archers atop of buildings but brainless community that continually tries to climb up to them getting constantly shot - thuss making no flags to appear.
So it's perfectly okay for a game to have one group of players being basically invulnerable and able to attack everyone, while the other group can't do nothing except of hiding and waiting and hoping to not get killed? And this is good gameplay? With equal distribution of fun?
It's your time to hate cavalry now?
Bad example, unless you refer to HAs, in which case you are right, that's exactly the reason why I hate them.
All the other cav needs to approach the enemy to attack, and 90% of all successful cav attacks are only due to missing awareness of the victim. In any other case, when the victim is aware, cavalry has real problems attacking successfully.
Did you try build with 10 riding and great lance? Try please, then suggest about bad or good example.
It's your time to hate cavalry now?
So it's perfectly okay for a game to have one group of players being basically invulnerable and able to attack everyone, while the other group can't do nothing except of hiding and waiting and hoping to not get killed? And this is good gameplay? With equal distribution of fun?
That Zlisch guy sure is awesome, I'll give him all my looms, I'll also become Kafeins bitch, and I'll agree that Blacckbow isn't a real pimp.Why thank you, I'll take those looms now.
btwfeel free to twist what i said in whatever way you want...this is 100% what I said.
ladders give you some more fun and variety in options on what to do on a map, at the same time they cause a few problems (some maps being unbalanced for example, some other maps are completely unsuitable for ladders...). for me the 1st part prevails, for you the 2nd one. the 2nd one is imo however caused mostly by brainless people that somehow like to be shot and are attracted to places with the most dense archery fire (if there are many people on a roof, simply don't fight there). i still believe that the 2nd part could be negated even a bit more by adjusting when the flags appear (always 2 mins before the map end no matter the kills - so not all the players manage to commit a suicide by climbing these roofs without a shield).
btw feel free to twist what i said in whatever way you want...
1) Bring back ladders to siege only.
2) Bring back firebombs with the ability to 1-2 shot ladders so even if they're unreachable by defenders they can still be destroyed.
Bam, cRPG siege fun increased 300%.
Could also design new siege maps with deployable ladders in mind...
I like the firebomb idea. Has to be a 1 shot though that requires no throwing and you can keep 3-4 of them in one stack. That would be super duper fun.
the biggest problem is level design. there are many maps that suck overall and some of them would suck probably even more with ladders. but its not the ladders, its the maps. with good maps battles with ladders can be better fun.
the way i see it the correct level design should offer you various options for reaching some places at a trade of for something else - for example i'm not against some tall tower in the middle of a map from where you will see everybody - if the tower will be narrow without a cover (so if more archers stack there, they will be safe against cavalry but very vulnerable to other ranged as they couldn't maneuver there). there can be "better" roofs at your spawn, but then you won't probably be able to shoot to the places where the action is (in the middle) etc.
problems are roofs that offer perfect cover for archers from both cavalry and ranged (when you're able to hide behind the roof) that are on sweet spots.
also with slot system, not everybody can really afford a ladder. also ranged is not what it used to be, sniping on a distance is no longer an option, you can't hit a shit even with 170 wpf above 30m.
edit:
i'd also bring firebombs back to c-rpg
1 slost, lighter, otherwise same as before.
throw it to the roof, watch the unaware archers BURN
sounds just awesome to me... :D
kicking the smoking firebomb would douse it.
No. Siege is far less about sitting on the flag as defense since the flow of battle is more predictable. On most maps, defenders know roughly where they need to be in relation to the main body of the enemy. With ladders, defending players need to be on the lookout all the time for sneaky players trying to steal the flag or open gates without a fight. Ladders also makes maps far harder to balance, since walls often become no obstacle to attackers (sometimes walls even become a pathway for enemy ladders straight to the flag!).+1 to ladders
Then what would prevent you of making a thrower build, equipping 4 stacks of fire bombs and eleminating half of the enemy team as soon as their blob approaches you?
Oh. I was thinking that the bomb would only damage siege ladders. I didn't know that this used to damage players as well.
Oh. I was thinking that the bomb would only damage siege ladders. I didn't know that this used to damage players as well.
They used to damage players, but that's not what I was suggesting. I don't know what Joker's thinking.
I just understood that you want have Firebombs working like hand grenades. But I admit you didn't write it would kill the archers, like I thought, so never mind.
But this just lets me ask myself how would firebombs that kill ladders help infantry to kill archers on a roof? If anything, it would make it more difficult :?
Oh. I was thinking that the bomb would only damage siege ladders. I didn't know that this used to damage players as well.