cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: bigsean on March 24, 2012, 03:09:34 pm

Title: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: bigsean on March 24, 2012, 03:09:34 pm
Ganner's take;

Quote
No action will be taken, kick polls are there for this reason, if you are annoying enough people to vote you out, you should modify your behavior.  While admins may not action you for playing your class, the community will hold you responsible for your actions.  Should you delay you face that chance.  HA/HX and bowmen need to learn when to stop running and just stand and fight so the other 30-70 players in the server aren't inconvenienced by their douchyness.  (this is not saying when its 4v1 you must stand your ground, more like if you are hopelessly outnumbered just end it rather than dragging it out by an unnecessary 2 more minutes)

In server 5 mins ago;
(click to show/hide)

Keep polls on, off, whatever, just be consistent.

DEMOCRACY
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: beniliusbob on March 24, 2012, 03:38:02 pm
True that. Polls are there so players can use them, not so the admins can turn them off.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: BaleOhay on March 24, 2012, 03:50:22 pm
going to have to agree. Keep the kick bans for this sort of thing. The people doing this (and the list is getting longer as the trolls climb aboard the band wagon) are not doing it to win rounds, their enjoyment comes at annoying the people actually trying to enjoy the game.

The only way to combat the behavior is to constantly kick them out and ruin their ability to troll. Once that is done to a decent degree the BS will stop.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: TurmoilTom on March 24, 2012, 03:53:37 pm
I'm fine if admins remove polls while they're in the server, so long as when they leave they remember to turn them back on.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 24, 2012, 03:56:28 pm
Yea lets just completly ignore the rules of this game why not?

Quote
NOT OK: poll-kicking someone because you don't like his playstyle

Lets start banning people for abusing this rule.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Minx on March 24, 2012, 04:04:37 pm
On the other hand...

Quote
No drawing/delaying the round on purpose (i.e. running away or camping unreachable places when you're one of the last people alive)

It seems subject to interpretation.






Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 24, 2012, 04:06:56 pm
how is attacking and attempting to win the same as delaying? people don't bitch when it's a single sheilder or 2h trying to win and he does everything in his power to do so. They only bitch cause those people are mounted and have a bow or xbow and they don't bother adapting their tactics to compensate. 

Common sense. The first rule. It also doesn't support this BS.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: BaleOhay on March 24, 2012, 04:08:11 pm
Yea lets just completly ignore the rules of this game why not?

Lets start banning people for abusing this rule.

anders approve this message because he was an original HX.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: BaleOhay on March 24, 2012, 04:13:41 pm
how is attacking and attempting to win the same as delaying? people don't bitch when it's a single sheilder or 2h trying to win and he does everything in his power to do so. They only bitch cause those people are mounted and have a bow or xbow and they don't bother adapting their tactics to compensate. 

Common sense. The first rule. It also doesn't support this BS.

2 hander/pole or shielder can be attacked. There is a certain amount of skill involved. The ability to stay out of range is not very skillful. This tactic is meant for the single player game before you learn how to block.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Leman_Russ on March 24, 2012, 04:16:58 pm
2 hander/pole or shielder can be attacked. There is a certain amount of skill involved. The ability to stay out of range is not very skillful. This tactic is meant for the single player game before you learn how to block.

Should definitely assume that none of those pesky HX's know how to block, lol.  It would behoove you to stay near and protect your ranged if you are melee.  Let them shoot down the horse then it is a free kill.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Rumblood on March 24, 2012, 04:18:03 pm
I'll be straight with you guys. It is a very sticky point and the "grey area" is so broad is to make it difficult for consistency in enforcement because it falls under 2 rules. One allowed, the other not.

On kick polls - You need to state your intention up front before starting one. Admins do turn them off while on the server and should turn them back on when leaving. That is well and fine and not a point of contention.

Here is where the issue come along:

Kicking for playstyle - Not allowed. This is the rule that protects your right to play the game like you want.

Leeching, delaying, griefing - Not allowed. This is the rule that protects the rest of the server from trolls.

The question is at what point does playstyle become delaying/griefing? That is the grey area and very much subject to interpretation. Nearly everyone has their own idea of when that line is crossed. It is the reason for the recent campaign (that I support) to fix the MOTF spawn so that it occurs every round and is randomized in some fashion to prevent camping its spawn point and altering the current open mode of Battle. (Remember when everyone just formed a big ball due to how experience was awarded?)

Because the grey area is so broad, some Admins will turn on kick polls to allow the entire server to weigh on on whether a player is using their playstyle, or delaying/griefing. This makes sense on the surface and so that is why you will see that occur.

The issue with this is that if the team without the HX/HA/delayer has a numerical advantage, they are going to press 1 to kick and get their x2 as they have more than 50% of the server population. So I don't entirely agree that it is a valid way to make that determination, but it is the only method we have of getting input from the people who can see what is happening.

I hope you can understand the difficulty of the situation and why 2 different Admins can give what appears to be on the surface, contradictory rules interpretations. They are not. Within the ruleset, they are consistent. What you will see is a different interpretation of a similar situation and which rule applies at that time.

Please go vote up the "Fix the MOTF" threads. We need the game mechanics to deal with the situation, and not the vagaries of interpretation of whether a player is "delaying" or "just playing their class".
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Vexus on March 24, 2012, 04:18:44 pm
While there are some exceptions like time is running out and the HA still going in circles vs several enemies I can't help but say, most people are retarded.

There's a working flag system and NO ONE ever tries to use it! There's 4 people camping a room with mauls vs 20 people but they are scared on attempting the fight yet they keep hugging the walls outside the room for a chance of a strike instead of waiting a little and forcing these 4 people to abandon the room if they want to win the round.

I don't really understand this stupidity that every single enemy must die for a win regardless if you got a big chance on losing if these people camping the small room are working together.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: BaleOhay on March 24, 2012, 04:19:51 pm
Should definitely assume that none of those pesky HX's know how to block, lol.  It would behoove you to stay near and protect your ranged if you are melee.  Let them shoot down the horse then it is a free kill.

Never said they could not block I am saying the tactic is meant for that. I do not mind the HX or HA playing and doing their thing. but when it comes to an army vrs them.. Stop delaying and make a stand.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Niemand on March 24, 2012, 04:23:42 pm
For me it is easy.

An Archer is not extending the round, when he is trying to kill those 3 left-over people. When hes more shooting than running. As soon as he runs out of arrows and trying to get new he is extending.

An X-Bower has to go into meelee, because his reloading-process is taking too much time.

If an HA is staying near the last alive enemies it is okay. As soon as he runs away or out of arrows and trying to get new arrows he is extending.


if there are more than 5 enemies still alive the ranged should just go die a heroic death in meelee.


Hugh!
A Pure-Archer spoke.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Overdriven on March 24, 2012, 04:27:01 pm
Bullshit. HA/HC or any ranged is viable at the end of a round. Just as viable as melee. Let them play. Just because you don't like it...deal with it.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Leman_Russ on March 24, 2012, 04:28:55 pm
Never said they could not block I am saying the tactic is meant for that. I do not mind the HX or HA playing and doing their thing. but when it comes to an army vrs them.. Stop delaying and make a stand.

I agree.  When there are more than 10 people alive and I am last, I get off of my horse.  If there are under 10 and I have over 20 bolts, I fight and try to win.  Am I riding a football field away shooting blinding trying to avoid dying?  According to many posts, thats all we are doing... delaying.  In reality, I am within 20 ft of players, easily within shoot range of decent players (they frequently kill my horse/me).  yet still, people bitch.  I also haven't once caused the round to draw.  I am usually dead before there are 2 minutes left.  Is it so terrible that the entire round took  total of 4 minutes?
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Overdriven on March 24, 2012, 04:30:32 pm
The only time people should moan about it is if the round does reach a draw. If you are outnumbered and it's getting close then you should die.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: BaleOhay on March 24, 2012, 04:32:28 pm
disagree when it is a forgone conclusion it should be done. why waste out 2-4 minutes because being an ass makes you forget your parents never loved you.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Leman_Russ on March 24, 2012, 04:34:27 pm
The only time people should moan about it is if the round does reach a draw. If you are outnumbered and it's getting close then you should die.

Hah. This is NA man.  People stamp their feet and throw tantrums if they don't get their way.  They play poorly or get unlucky and die within the first minute and foam at the mouth at the thought of having to wait 3 or 4 minutes to respawn.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Overdriven on March 24, 2012, 04:34:59 pm
disagree when it is a forgone conclusion it should be done. why waste out 2-4 minutes because being an ass makes you forget your parents never loved you.

There have been times when me and another GK have been the last on our team and we've wiped out 10 players. Albeit it's rare but it's often doable. Unless it's close to a draw there's no reason to stop playing. If there are more than say 10 guys then it's embaressing for them if they can't even take down your horse.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Leman_Russ on March 24, 2012, 04:37:05 pm
disagree when it is a forgone conclusion it should be done. why waste out 2-4 minutes because being an ass makes you forget your parents never loved you.

Then go about it the correct way and try and get admins to institute a new rule in regards to being one of the last few alive.  "If you are the last person alive and there are more than 5 people on the other team, you must run in and suicide!"  There you go.  Theres a rule you can try and get added.  Make it apply to all classes though.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Rumblood on March 24, 2012, 04:38:36 pm
Hah. This is NA man.  People stamp their feet and throw tantrums if they don't get their way.  They play poorly or get unlucky and die within the first minute and foam at the mouth at the thought of having to wait 3 or 4 minutes to respawn.

Well we did invent the microwave  :lol:

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 24, 2012, 04:41:52 pm
Speaking not as an admin, but just another fighter;

You guys are idiots, stop trying to bend the rules and "interpret" them to your liking or fitting. You know in what the spirit of sportsmanship these rules were implemented for.

If you're being a total douchefuck about it, it breaks Universal Rule #1: Don't be a jerkoff.

So yes, if someone is intentionally delaying, by all means, vote for it. If it's a HC fighting off a horde of people; fine, let him play. It's literally 2 minutes of your life. Shut the fuck up and read a book or surf the internet. You wouldn't vote on a 2h fighter engaging a horde, even if he's not doing much.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: SuperNewb on March 24, 2012, 05:22:16 pm
Yet here I stand naked in a corner with a siegeshield and all the hatred gets thrown at me for not carrying my team/valor farming/leeching. These Xbow/HA can get away with pretty much anything because it is a class meant for delaying and using your resources wisely (Horse). I say let the server decide on their fate (No vote bans but just kicks)
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: BaleOhay on March 24, 2012, 05:24:26 pm
You wouldn't vote on a 2h fighter engaging a horde, even if he's not doing much.

key word engaging Dex. If there is ranged left on the non HX/HA team it is engaging. when there is no ranged to combat it its delaying.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Leshma on March 24, 2012, 05:27:43 pm
New Idlewild thread :D
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Renten on March 24, 2012, 05:32:21 pm
My largest problem is that admins warn someone. Then two rounds later they warn them again. Another two rounds later they warn them again, this time saying its the last time. The admin leaves (and forgets to turn polls on). Several rounds later another admin comes in and starts the warning process with the person again.... and it continues with no punishment.

Admins should at least have a Google docs list of people that got warned:when:why that they use. You shouldn't be able to get away with multiple warnings in less than an hour. If they already have something like this set up then they should actually use it.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Kyza on March 24, 2012, 05:42:15 pm
Turn polls on and let the community interpret the rules.  The one time polls were enabled, ss and friends were instantly vote kicked.  If that doesn't single out the fact that there is a problem with them trolling, or the interpretation of rules, what will.

Immediately after getting kicked, admins came onboard and disabled polls, and the trolling disappeared as there was a lot of noise in the system. 

People clean up their act if they know their douchebaggery is just going to get them booted out by the majority.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Malaclypse on March 24, 2012, 05:47:13 pm
Fix MOTF, issue solved.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 24, 2012, 05:54:01 pm
Turn polls on and let the community interpret the rules.  The one time polls were enabled, ss and friends were instantly vote kicked.  If that doesn't single out the fact that there is a problem with them trolling, or the interpretation of rules, what will.

Immediately after getting kicked, admins came onboard and disabled polls, and the trolling disappeared as there was a lot of noise in the system. 

People clean up their act if they know their douchebaggery is just going to get them booted out by the majority.

Problem is every other time the trolls are NOT on, you get pollspam from people harassing each other etc.

But anyway, Malaclypse is right, once the Master of the Field is modified, I'm sure it'll be fine
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: bigsean on March 24, 2012, 06:04:15 pm
Problem is every other time the trolls are NOT on, you get pollspam from people harassing each other etc.

But anyway, Malaclypse is right, once the Master of the Field is modified, I'm sure it'll be fine

if these people are harassing and stuff then they deserve to get kicked, its unreasonable to leave polls off with no admins in the server

I wonder if there could be a way to automatically turn polls on if no admins are in the server
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Zisa on March 24, 2012, 06:40:37 pm
I hate HX/HA, it's for single player. Played well it is all about avoidance (of danger, harm, anything scary).

However it's in the game, so there is no way I am pressing 1 on a poll, no matter how much I think said player is a sissy.

You guys remember Strelets?

This is not a new phenomenon (phe- nom nom nom).
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: SixThumbs on March 24, 2012, 07:51:06 pm
I was under the impression when I first started playing that MOTF happened within the last minute or two and the flags spawned in a random location. I was sorely disappointed when I found out the real conditions for how it happened.

I also always press "2" because you're all a bunch of big babies.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 24, 2012, 08:17:49 pm
if these people are harassing and stuff then they deserve to get kicked, its unreasonable to leave polls off with no admins in the server

I wonder if there could be a way to automatically turn polls on if no admins are in the server

Again, the issue is that people aren't able to discern between people using polls to troll, and the people who are legitimately polling against said trolls.

I don't know about other admins, but I usually turn polls on just before I leave regardless of the others, simply because most of the time we forget to turn them on. We're only human.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Kivlov on March 24, 2012, 08:34:34 pm
key word engaging Dex. If there is ranged left on the non HX/HA team it is engaging. when there is no ranged to combat it its delaying.
Just because the melee are all big downies and run around in the open rather than finding something that could cause Sod/Dick to potentially run into, doesn't mean he's delaying by staying out of range of your sword.

By your logic, S Key heros with Glaives all need to be banned because they're staying out of range of my longsword and playing to their strength rather than coming into where my faster weapon can be an advantage to me.

If there's someone with a shield, they bump shoot them and if there's a bunch of pole/2h milling around, they don't ride into it unless they get an opportunity. You're not faulting the infantry that run and climb up a ladder in the last 30 seconds; you're just blaming the HX because you dislike them.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Rainbow on March 24, 2012, 08:38:36 pm
The issue is HX never run out of bolts.  Takes FOREVER for them to run out. HA is fine IMO because they will run out pretty quickly if they are firing non-stop.  If you spawn with a horse and xbow / bolts you get a % of the normal bolts you would get if you don't spawn with a horse.  Limit there ammo and the delay of games will stop.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Kelugarn on March 24, 2012, 08:58:52 pm
The issue is HX never run out of bolts.  Takes FOREVER for them to run out. HA is fine IMO because they will run out pretty quickly if they are firing non-stop.  If you spawn with a horse and xbow / bolts you get a % of the normal bolts you would get if you don't spawn with a horse.  Limit there ammo and the delay of games will stop.

I carry only 24 bolts on my HX because I bring a melee weapon, and if the map is good I will have burned through all of them in 2-3 minutes. Limiting the amount of ammo that a HX can carry will not change the length of time that they ride for, it will just cause them to spend more time making each shot count for more.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Malaclypse on March 24, 2012, 09:13:34 pm
Just because the melee are all big downies and run around in the open rather than finding something that could cause Sod/Dick to potentially run into, doesn't mean he's delaying by staying out of range of your sword.

The problem is that you know, you can always expect a few downies at the end. Let's say it's 1 v 10, 2 minutes on the clock. It's not very likely that a all 10 are together. It's not especially likely that you can rally all ten together and get them to hide somewhere to draw out flags or coordinate to take down a HX. All it takes is one person to die before a minute passes to extend MOTF spawning again. One person to be vulnerable, not listen, make a mistake, etc.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: rustyspoon on March 24, 2012, 09:49:40 pm
Even though I'm not a fan of HX, they shouldn't be kicked for playing their class. Just fix MOTF, problem solved.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Kivlov on March 24, 2012, 10:12:28 pm
The problem is that you know, you can always expect a few downies at the end. Let's say it's 1 v 10, 2 minutes on the clock. It's not very likely that a all 10 are together. It's not especially likely that you can rally all ten together and get them to hide somewhere to draw out flags or coordinate to take down a HX. All it takes is one person to die before a minute passes to extend MOTF spawning again. One person to be vulnerable, not listen, make a mistake, etc.
Very true. As much as I dislike waiting, if the HX has a chance to win, he should be allowed that chance to play and get his team a multi.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Ganner on March 24, 2012, 10:23:07 pm
After playing HX a bit and starting to get a feel for the class... My opinion has not changed.

Play your class until it becomes a burden upon the rest of the team.  5v1 sure go for it, but with >5 people and shields you have almost no chance unless your name is roh, you simply cannot do enough damage and your not gonna break those shields.  Stop wasting everyone's time and just get off the horse and engage in melee.  After about 140 wpf theres no need for more xbow prof so throw 70 prof into a melee weapon and take one with you.  (same also goes for the dedicated bowmen and xbowmen that dont take a melee weapon... stop running and just fight)

As for you noobie, everyone is tired of your shit because you can actually affect the battle if you try.  You have the potential to win the round for your team if you just help them, rather than let them get slaughtered while you valor farm somewhere off in the back.  Just get in there and fight with the rest of your team and stop pretending your doing anything but trolling.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 24, 2012, 10:45:08 pm
Yet here I stand naked in a corner with a siegeshield and all the hatred gets thrown at me for not carrying my team/valor farming/leeching. These Xbow/HA can get away with pretty much anything because it is a class meant for delaying and using your resources wisely (Horse). I say let the server decide on their fate (No vote bans but just kicks)

You do realize that is against the rules? No, of course not, hence why you keep doing it for months on end (two months now) despite innumerable warnings and a few bans...
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Kivlov on March 25, 2012, 12:06:14 am
You do realize that is against the rules? No, of course not, hence why you keep doing it for months on end (two months now) despite innumerable warnings and a few bans...
So what rule is that breaking exactly?
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Kafein on March 25, 2012, 12:23:13 am
- Fixing MOTF would fix all these issues.
- I vote for kicking delayers no matter the team I'm on, and no matter my multi. I want to play.
- Some classes delay much more than others. HA/HX are the first, natural delayers because of all the classes, they have the highest chances of surviving the round despite their team losing. Archers and xbowmen come second because they can camp spots that are very hard to attack for the whole round. Then comes melee cav, when they actually survive, which is quite rare when their team dies. And finally melee of all kind, because they are not able to inflict damage while camping, and lack the mobility of cav.

In the end, whether someone is delaying or not is usually related to how are the odds and what is the player doing.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Rumblood on March 25, 2012, 06:14:22 am
Stop wasting everyone's time and just get off the horse and engage in melee.  After about 140 wpf theres no need for more xbow prof so throw 70 prof into a melee weapon and take one with you.  (same also goes for the dedicated bowmen and xbowmen that dont take a melee weapon... stop running and just fight)

The HX already has a melee weapon. It's called a horse. When you are last, use your melee weapon to bumpshot people to death. Don't keep circling. If you can't bumpshot (or shotbump) properly to prevent them from piking your horse, you suck and deserve to go flying onto your face and die when you can't reload or run anymore. You shouldn't be circling anyhow you ineffective fucks. Learn to charge for speed bonus  :rolleyes:

I like these discussion though. Eventually 75% of us will be on the same page.

and fix MOTF!  :mad:
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 25, 2012, 07:32:28 am
So what rule is that breaking exactly?

Naked with nothing but a siege shield, needs a weapon (even a zero slot will fit if you use two siege shields).
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Kivlov on March 25, 2012, 12:29:48 pm
Naked with nothing but a siege shield, needs a weapon (even a zero slot will fit if you use two siege shields).
He does spawn with a weapon. Naked implies no armour which there is no rule against.
Title: Re: So are we allowed to make kick polls for delayers/people playing their class or?
Post by: Niemand on March 28, 2012, 12:57:10 pm
But there should be, in my opinion. Wear at least a tunic or a robe. does not slow you down, gives a few points of armour and does NOT cost anything.

Its something else with those "African-/Native-American-/Australian-Tribe"-Clans. But those arent played very often. People only wear no armour for leeching. (Thanks. I found a new rule for my server...)