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Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Osiris on March 21, 2012, 11:15:44 pm

Title: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Osiris on March 21, 2012, 11:15:44 pm
Quote from: chadz

"No matter how long you guys cry - I will not give in to dumbing strategus down because some people just want battles. If all you want are battles, then play cRPG, not strat. There are other people who like advanced gameplay."

Stategus is a Grand Stategy game.

This means that to win you need to do multiple things well: 1. Battles 2. Diplomacy 3. Trade 4. Recruit
If you focus on one and neglect others you fail.

Some people seem to be too stupid to grasp the simple fact that Stategus isnt a clan battle torunament with rules to make it fair ^^ You may be the greatest 10 man fighting force in world history but that doesnt mean you will win <3

Size matters deal with it. As in history manpower actually matters and it always will, instead of moaning that your 20 man faction cant take out a 100 man faction 1 on 1 and demanding changes to make it possible i suggest that you PLAY THE GAME.

IE make alliances, seek diplomacy hell maybe in war think about surrendering land to secure peace :o (shock horror in games like this wars dont have to end in total defeat you can cede lands!)


Basically im just sick of every retard who isnt on top in strat comming here and whining like a total bitch about how strat is unfair :) It isnt unfair. somewhere you failed. real strat suggestions get ignored because the whole section is filled with QQ from losers. Hell my faction has won lands and is losing lands. Just because our alliance isnt strong enough to beat Greys + Nords doesnt mean that stategus is broken it simply means that they are stronger. They may be stronger in terms of economy/players or skill but they are stronger and are winning and thats how it should be.


That said just remember this you dont have a right to hold lands or even survive strat :) just because you lose it doesnt mean its unfair <3


*edit*
To generic NA players who blame DRZ. You decided to ignore the obvious fact that they would look to NA lands. stop complaining you should have been more observant
To generic everyone. Ofc the UIF will ally up they keep winning :D do something about it ^^ maybe search for allies or temporary agreements. In MP eu2 games if someone got too powerfull the others acted. maybe if leaders spoke to each other they would form a temp alliance to stop drz growing.
To harpag. hands off the pope :D
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Mannhammer on March 21, 2012, 11:24:51 pm
Good point Strat is perfect in both conception and execution. No changes are needed and anyone who suggests them is just QQ'ing.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Osiris on March 21, 2012, 11:26:49 pm
if you read i actually said good strat suggestions are being ignored due to the rediculous amount of suggestions made because someone lost :P Ie the ones who think strat should be made more fair for little clans etc (basically suggestions that improve strat are good, suggestions that would improve improve strat by making your own faction stronger are bad mkay)
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: RibaldRon on March 21, 2012, 11:29:41 pm
While I understand that strat has played out, basically, exactly how it was intended to play out, you can't say that the NA factions who lost did something wrong.

an NA faction started an NA war, and DRZ moved in.  They won.  That's different than saying "You lost."



Also, you can completely neglect two of those four points, if you only work on Diplomacy, and Trade, while everybody else is working on those four points (battle/recruit) you will inevitably win.  Because there is no incentive to fighting other than the fun/EXP, peaceful trading while slowly building forces over time is the way to win strategus.

Now you will say "well, those factions should have been attacking the peaceful traders!" not as easy as it sounds when they have a lot of support, and another enemy is already at your doorstep.  :P



Some of the "Winners" agree,  and support some of the suggestions being thrown out there, why does it matter which side of the fence the suggestions come from?  I don't see the mega alliance wanting to change the status quo for what is probably an obvious reason.  For me, I'd like to see the game be more fun for everyone, it will be impossible to set it up in such a way that diplomacy/giant alliances won't HELP you, but changes to make it more enjoyable for everyone would be a plus.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Osiris on March 21, 2012, 11:33:14 pm
you can also ask why the two biggest NA factions decided to go to war when a massive EU alliance was sitting there doing nothing for a long time :) a bit of thinking would show you that to keep some sort of a balance of power then the NA alliances should have gone after the UIF. you dont have to kill them totally ofc just fight for a while and make a treaty :P

Anyone who looked at the map for the last month could clearly see that if you guys fought each other then it = DRZ win


*edit*
i agree strat needs to be made more fun for the average player :P i was talking about threads like these

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,28293.0.html
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,28346.0.html

so many suggestion threads start off with ranting about carebare alliances or QQ about anything other then battle skill making a difference. If we stop these kind of threads and stop the reasons behind strat suggestions being "i lost so it must change" then we can get down to the good stuff :P and there has been much of it
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: LastKaze on March 21, 2012, 11:35:12 pm
I agree, it's just some clans quit strategus because they believe if they quit, than chadz will wipe it and they get to start again. When I see a thread that says to wipe strat, all i see is a bunch of people QQ because their faction got wiped out, I just think to myself, if there's a wipe than there's a chance they will get wiped out again and then later QQ to wipe the map once more. TBH you don't have to restart strat to make it more fun, all they have to do is just fix the bugs and people will enjoy it more. I also agree that diplomacy is important, without diplomacy your faction will be attacked left to right.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Osiris on March 21, 2012, 11:38:27 pm
take a bear in rls suggestions. he has some good points IE minimal player imput. this details the facts that most players dont get a lot to do and that is the main thing i dislike about strat. Then he goes on to QQ about alliances thus making most people ignore his good points. IMO Increasing the fun for individuals = great. QQing because there is an alliance you cant beat and wanting to change the mechanics because someone has more friends than you = bad :P
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: RibaldRon on March 21, 2012, 11:40:23 pm
you can also ask why the two biggest NA factions decided to go to war when a massive EU alliance was sitting there doing nothing for a long time :) a bit of thinking would show you that to keep some sort of a balance of power then the NA alliances should have gone after the UIF. you dont have to kill them totally ofc just fight for a while and make a treaty :P

Anyone who looked at the map for the last month could clearly see that if you guys fought each other then it = DRZ win
To be perfectly fair, the majority of NA did not want to fight amongst ourselves, but even if we had all banded together, we couldn't have made a dent in the UIF's 2/3 of the map, with what would have been 1/4.

When you get an NA army attacking in the EU lands, our ping suffers a lot more than DRZ's does in NA lands.


I've said it before, I'll say it again, I had fun.  We got wiped.  I will continue to make suggestions that I feel will benefit strategus as a whole, not because I lost.



E: It seems you're reading too much into this.  The majority of us are using these situations as an example, it's not QQ because a battle or a war were lost.  We could say Jane went to college for four years, Dave also went to college at the same school, and they both graduated, much the same.  Dave and Jane are both Native American, and were granted land by the government.  Jane received 2/3 of said land, while Dave got 1/3.  They both started restaurants....

Or we could just talk about Strategus.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Kafein on March 21, 2012, 11:58:34 pm
Good point Strat is perfect in both conception and execution. No changes are needed and anyone who suggests them is just QQ'ing.

This. Obviously everyone wants Strat to be about everyone being allied and all the enemies quitting the game. Like, you know, realistic feudal diplomacy.


In a grand strategy game, is it commonly admitted that the more competing factions there are, the more interesting it is. Where's the diplomacy when you end up with two powerblocks after a few months ?


I'd like to point out a few things that are terribly wrong with that post, Osiris.

Quote from: chadz

"No matter how long you guys cry - I will not give in to dumbing strategus down because some people just want battles. If all you want are battles, then play cRPG, not strat. There are other people who like advanced gameplay."

That one is rather old, and honestly, being ridiculed now.

Stategus is a Grand Stategy game.

This means that to win you need to do multiple things well: 1. Battles 2. Diplomacy 3. Trade 4. Recruit
If you focus on one and neglect others you fail.

Of course. Problem is, diplomacy is locked down, trade is about who controls the longest trade route, and recruiting is about having more farming drones active players.

Some people seem to be too stupid to grasp the simple fact that Stategus isnt a clan battle torunament with rules to make it fair ^^ You may be the greatest 10 man fighting force in world history but that doesnt mean you will win <3

Size matters deal with it. As in history manpower actually matters and it always will, instead of moaning that your 20 man faction cant take out a 100 man faction 1 on 1 and demanding changes to make it possible i suggest that you PLAY THE GAME.

This never worked in this edition of strat and never will in the future either if the rules don't change, because the game works in such a way there are no incentives to secede from the big alliances. You can try to convince a faction of rebelling with you against it's allies, but they got 0 rational reason to do it.

IE make alliances, seek diplomacy hell maybe in war think about surrendering land to secure peace :o (shock horror in games like this wars dont have to end in total defeat you can cede lands!)

All of the things in your post, this is the worst. Why on earth would a winning faction stop a war and only take a part of your territory ? There is no "core fief" or "stability" or "revolt risk" mechanics in Strat. Expanding at the fastest possible rate is always better.

Basically im just sick of every retard who isnt on top in strat comming here and whining like a total bitch about how strat is unfair :) It isnt unfair. somewhere you failed. real strat suggestions get ignored because the whole section is filled with QQ from losers. Hell my faction has won lands and is losing lands. Just because our alliance isnt strong enough to beat Greys + Nords doesnt mean that stategus is broken it simply means that they are stronger. They may be stronger in terms of economy/players or skill but they are stronger and are winning and thats how it should be.


That said just remember this you dont have a right to hold lands or even survive strat :) just because you lose it doesnt mean its unfair <3

The stronger clans should be winning. But winning in a good game doesn't imply wiping others.

*edit*
To generic NA players who blame DRZ. You decided to ignore the obvious fact that they would look to NA lands. stop complaining you should have been more observant
To generic everyone. Ofc the UIF will ally up they keep winning :D do something about it ^^ maybe search for allies or temporary agreements. In MP eu2 games if someone got too powerfull the others acted. maybe if leaders spoke to each other they would form a temp alliance to stop drz growing.
To harpag. hands off the pope :D

Especially about the EU multiplayer games... That works because these players have an amount of goodwillingness and roleplaying I would be very surprised to see emerging out of the current factions winning strat. And more importantly, EU games are very well tought in terms of limiting the advantages of people already winning. In Strat when you take a fief, you get the full income immediately. In paradox grand strategy games, you have to deal with tons of maluses when you take regions by force. Lacking legitimate claims over the land, rebels, different cultures, religions...
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Osiris on March 22, 2012, 12:12:28 am
you raise good points :P which is what i want :) Strat inst perfect and sure Fiefs should take time to secure and turn to core fiefs of your faction :)

what is pissing me off is that a good 90% of suggestions are not made around what is good for strat but only what is good for the player making the suggestion.


Quote from: Osiris on Today at 21:15:44

IE make alliances, seek diplomacy hell maybe in war think about surrendering land to secure peace (shock horror in games like this wars dont have to end in total defeat you can cede lands!)


All of the things in your post, this is the worst. Why on earth would a winning faction stop a war and only take a part of your territory ? There is no "core fief" or "stability" or "revolt risk" mechanics in Strat. Expanding at the fastest possible rate is always better.


On this point i must disagree. Why on earth would a winning faction stop a war. well that is down to the other factions :) If one faction is going to destroy another totally and become too powerfull then the others should step in and force a treaty

In my games of eu2 i must say that if one country totally destroyed another then the other countries would step in to ensure that a treaty was made that didnt make one country totally superior. for example (not a realistic one) If Druzinha Chaos Hospi Grey Nord and Templars were the main factions and Druzinha went to war with Chaos and was going to totally win then it is down to the other factions to ensure that such a victory doesnt mean that Druzinha becaome twice as powerfull as anyone else. If one side is winning by far then it is down to others to limit their gains :)

This doesnt happen in Strat because well we all hate each other ^^ But if for example in NA Reds and Greens looked at the map before really fighting they might have seen that Greys had devoted some resources to fight the Templars and that a combined NA thrust on DRZ might have resulted in a return to the balance of power :P

Im rambling because well ive been drinking a lil but i hope i sort of make sense :)

It is down to the players to form a balance of power not the Devs. The Devs should strive to make the game more interactive and fun for the individual player. They should not be distraced/forced into making more limits to factions because the playerbase lacts the ability to do it themselves.

just my opinion ofc :P if DRZ win repeatedly its because we let them, let the devs focus on making the game more fun for individuals let the faction leaders focus on making it more fair
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Slantedfloors on March 22, 2012, 12:54:38 am
If Druzinha Chaos Hospi Grey Nord and Templars were the main factions and Druzinha went to war with Chaos and was going to totally win then it is down to the other factions to ensure that such a victory doesnt mean that Druzinha becaome twice as powerfull as anyone else. If one side is winning by far then it is down to others to limit their gains :)
So as a question, why does EU never do this to Druzhina or Grey Order?

Because this seems a whole hell of a lot like you're telling NA that we should have all banded together and sacrificed our own enjoyment of the game to ensure that our tiny little ghetto didn't get wiped out by some massive mega-alliance of Europeans that control literally 3/4 of the map at any one time because every other European clan knuckles under and gives them whatever they want.

i.e, Go Fuck Yourself
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Arn De Gothia on March 22, 2012, 01:00:52 am
   The EU vs NA conflict doesn't seem tenable. Pings are bad for either side when battles are fought. Split map, and enjoy. If people say that the population is to small for two different zones, I would respond by saying that the conflicts will become more personal and that in itself might cause greater participation.

   If templars/druz/grey/ect. continue alliances or fight, then its up to them. NA can get back to bashing each other. Despite the shit slinging during the red vs green war, I had a good time. But when Druz rolled in, it felt like there was no point. I disagree that the best strategy for NA was to simply wait or attack the EU "peaceful alliance". Finally, there was great deal of subterfuge and intrigue during the NA war before Druz rolled in. Clans plotted, leaders conspired, and soldiers died. Which, in the end, is what strat is all about. I guess I might be on the winning side, since HATE  allied with hospitaller, but the win doesn't feel good. It's weird to me that people on my side get so pumped up about winning and simultaneously accusing Chaos (green people) of being lazy or bad strategists.

   Hopefully this was just an observation rather than heinous insult to anybody. I myself would love to see more features in strat besides recruit/trade/travel repeat.

Be happy.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on March 22, 2012, 01:07:57 am
So as a question, why does EU never do this to Druzhina or Grey Order?

Because this seems a whole hell of a lot like you're telling NA that we should have all banded together and sacrificed our own enjoyment of the game to ensure that our tiny little ghetto didn't get wiped out by some massive mega-alliance of Europeans that control literally 3/4 of the map at any one time because every other European clan knuckles under and gives them whatever they want.

i.e, Go Fuck Yourself

lol what a dick.

Templars did face up to the Greys you know, one of the most commonly alleged UIF factions. If you think UIF is such a problem maybe you shoulda helped them out huh, instead of doing nothing then crying about the mega alliance that you watched kill off all of its enemies 1 by 1 as people stood on the sidelines.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Slantedfloors on March 22, 2012, 01:12:16 am
Templars did face up to the Greys you know, one of the most commonly alleged UIF factions. If you think UIF is such a problem maybe you shoulda helped them out huh, instead of doing nothing.
Sufferin' Succotash! You mean a small European clan stood up to to the EU Mega-Block?

Surely this will be the point when the other EU clans draw their carefully concealed knives and attack their brobdingnagian neighbours from behind! This will surely be a great war, as faction after faction say "NO MORE" to the UIF's control over...oh wait, no, the rest of EU are doing jack shit to stop them. Except for the guys who are helping them wipe out the underdogs, I guess.

WELPS, I guess it's up to NA to do what literally every other EU clan will not do. With 1/4 of the resources, as mandated by the ping wall. And facing the opposition of damn near every other EU clan trying to prove what stalwart UIF allies they are.


i.e, Go Fuck Yourself
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Arn De Gothia on March 22, 2012, 01:27:01 am
While Slantedfloors doesn't convey his message in the nicest way, I have to agree with him. EU should be fighting EU menaces, as NA should be fighting NA menaces.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Slantedfloors on March 22, 2012, 01:29:02 am
While Slantedfloors doesn't convey his message in the nicest way, I have to agree with him. EU should be fighting EU menaces, as NA should be fighting NA menaces.
Ironically, it seems that Europe actually wants America to play world policeman for once.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Uumdi on March 22, 2012, 01:34:44 am
Yeah its no argument that we need to just eat this one.  And I agree I'm not in support of a mod for the sake of "fun fights".  The fights themselves are usually pretty one-sided, and I only had the priviledge of attending only a handful of great matchups.  In defense of us bloodthirsty NA's, people got bored after building up since what, october. 

We may have T'd off some of the NA clans early because we stayed entirely neutral in the initial bloodshed, and again in the months after, both northwest and to the east.  NA was torn apart from the very start, and I admire what the hospitaller and occitan alliance did in the initial set up period.  They had issues with the Fallen so they decided to objectively prevent it, and that was a move worthy of acknowledgement.

What I really despise seeing is the petty racewar.  Next round we'll just need to make more EU friends, end of story. That's all that needs to be said about that.   

If it came down to EU vs NA, NA is just outproduced.  But we don't need to be locked into that mentality.  Its not that hard to make friends, nobody's that hard to deal with, and 20 ping or 200 ping, people generally want to cooperate.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Arn De Gothia on March 22, 2012, 01:37:24 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Slantedfloors on March 22, 2012, 01:37:52 am
In defense of us bloodthirsty NA's, people got bored after building up since what, october.
Seriously, evidently what we should have done was not fight amongst ourselves and kept building up for the inevitable EU invasion.

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

Fun times to be had there. Doing nothing except crafting lordly mail mittens for 6 1/2 months is clearly the cornerstone of a successful strategy game that will last the test of time.

Good luck with finding European clan allies though. There's clearly a few here and there that aren't bootlicks, hopefully next Strat they can do more than be rolled over while everyone else over there does absolutely nothing about it.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Malaclypse on March 22, 2012, 01:43:53 am
TBH you don't have to restart strat to make it more fun, all they have to do is just fix the bugs and people will enjoy it more.

Disagree with this. I think Strategus is something that should definitely be wiped on some sort of a time frame (3 months? 6 months?). Different iterations of Strategus will see different alliances, different villains, different scapegoats and "victors" and will provide people who jumped in partway through an iteration with a more level playing field in terms of potentiality come the next iteration.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on March 22, 2012, 01:45:14 am
Sufferin' Succotash! You mean a small European clan stood up to to the EU Mega-Block?

Surely this will be the point when the other EU clans draw their carefully concealed knives and attack their brobdingnagian neighbours from behind! This will surely be a great war, as faction after faction say "NO MORE" to the UIF's control over...oh wait, no, the rest of EU are doing jack shit to stop them. Except for the guys who are helping them wipe out the underdogs, I guess.

WELPS, I guess it's up to NA to do what literally every other EU clan will not do. With 1/4 of the resources, as mandated by the ping wall. And facing the opposition of damn near every other EU clan trying to prove what stalwart UIF allies they are.


i.e, Go Fuck Yourself

You might have a point except that it was a lot more than just the Templar clan fighting the Greys, it was their whole alliance. This is the majority of the "crusader" themed clans that play CRPG, excluding NA.
Good job though, you totally don't look like some fool talking about stuff he doesn't actually know anything about.

I just find it amusing that you tell a guy to go fuck himself when it is his clan doing the exact thing you are raging about people not doing.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Slantedfloors on March 22, 2012, 01:50:31 am
You might have a point except that it was a lot more than just the Templar clan fighting the Greys, it was their whole alliance. This is the majority of the "crusader" themed clans that play CRPG, excluding NA.

Good job though, you totally don't look like some fool talking about stuff he doesn't actually know anything about
So what you're saying is that it wasn't even just a small clan like the Mercs being rolled over - it was a minor power bloc being dismantled, and the rest of EU stood by and did absolutely nothing while the balance of power changed significantly.

...not really seeing what point you thought you were trying to make here. Also not my fault the method for defending against mega-block alliances proposed by the OP is retarded.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Kafein on March 22, 2012, 02:10:30 am
you raise good points :P which is what i want :) Strat inst perfect and sure Fiefs should take time to secure and turn to core fiefs of your faction :)

what is pissing me off is that a good 90% of suggestions are not made around what is good for strat but only what is good for the player making the suggestion.


Quote from: Osiris on Today at 21:15:44

IE make alliances, seek diplomacy hell maybe in war think about surrendering land to secure peace (shock horror in games like this wars dont have to end in total defeat you can cede lands!)


All of the things in your post, this is the worst. Why on earth would a winning faction stop a war and only take a part of your territory ? There is no "core fief" or "stability" or "revolt risk" mechanics in Strat. Expanding at the fastest possible rate is always better.


On this point i must disagree. Why on earth would a winning faction stop a war. well that is down to the other factions :) If one faction is going to destroy another totally and become too powerfull then the others should step in and force a treaty

In my games of eu2 i must say that if one country totally destroyed another then the other countries would step in to ensure that a treaty was made that didnt make one country totally superior. for example (not a realistic one) If Druzinha Chaos Hospi Grey Nord and Templars were the main factions and Druzinha went to war with Chaos and was going to totally win then it is down to the other factions to ensure that such a victory doesnt mean that Druzinha becaome twice as powerfull as anyone else. If one side is winning by far then it is down to others to limit their gains :)

This doesnt happen in Strat because well we all hate each other ^^ But if for example in NA Reds and Greens looked at the map before really fighting they might have seen that Greys had devoted some resources to fight the Templars and that a combined NA thrust on DRZ might have resulted in a return to the balance of power :P

Im rambling because well ive been drinking a lil but i hope i sort of make sense :)

It is down to the players to form a balance of power not the Devs. The Devs should strive to make the game more interactive and fun for the individual player. They should not be distraced/forced into making more limits to factions because the playerbase lacts the ability to do it themselves.

just my opinion ofc :P if DRZ win repeatedly its because we let them, let the devs focus on making the game more fun for individuals let the faction leaders focus on making it more fair


You do make a point about factions trying to establish a balance of power, but this balance is too fragile. When Strat kicked in, the current winners already were in a coalition. Other factions repeatedly tried to group up and stop them but the problem remains that in Strat, allying with the strongest is the best choice. It shouldn't. The decision should be influenced by local geopolitics. From what I remember, an important part of the Shogunate coalition  turned their coats and joined the UIF, letting that precious balance of power be thrown out of the window. The problem isn't about the players, it's about the game mechanics. The strong groups become stronger much too fast, and there are no possibilities of that power ever decreasing.

Add to that the extremely defensive army recruitement/upkeep balance. A game that makes upkeeping troops much more expensive compared to recruiting them would be more aggressive, as it would lessen the number of ridiculous "standing armies" we have.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Uumdi on March 22, 2012, 02:23:53 am

And building up.

And building up.

And building up.

...

I agree fully.  We built up since fuckin...  october or something.  Its now march. 
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on March 22, 2012, 02:25:50 am
I'm sure there's plenty of discussion abound concerning using locality and proximity to influence participation of mercenaries in battles. Surely that would make the deployment of big and small clans a much more active process.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Tanken on March 22, 2012, 02:33:11 am
Still think the best option is split Strategus into 2 maps. NA and EU. That would force you EU guys to I don't know, fight someone in your own lands?

And NA would have fun beating each other down until everyone 6 months in was back in peasant gear and fighting with cudgels.


Two different ideas of how to play

Should =

Two different maps.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Knute on March 22, 2012, 02:51:10 am
I agree fully.  We built up since fuckin...  october or something.  Its now march.

I was wondering, you had all that time to build up and enough people to recruit an army quickly, why didn't any of the clans in the green alliance take a castle?  Up until maybe late January the castles were buying stuff like hunting crossbows and steppe armor for their defense.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on March 22, 2012, 02:58:40 am
What is with the obsession of splitting NA and EU, really?

Anyway it all is about balance of power, UIF first formed to counter the Templar bloc. The natural response is to create a counter to perceived threats. The only way to fight back is to form a power block of equal or greater strength, if you refuse to even entertain the idea instead saying things like it is someone else's problem then you are already defeated and will be picked off one by one. Just like the Templar bloc did forcing people to join and easily crushing their enemies until the UIF stopped them.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on March 22, 2012, 03:00:06 am
But now it's a working formula I guess all we can do is counter-counter in an endless cycle!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B36BXid7iQ0

*edit*
Very sly edit Plazek.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Slantedfloors on March 22, 2012, 03:06:45 am
What is with the obsession of splitting NA and EU, really?
What is the obsession with keeping two completely incompatible playstyles together, especially given that the map is split to gimp one side?
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: naruto_goku_sephiroth_420 on March 22, 2012, 03:11:50 am
crates...
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Haramir on March 22, 2012, 03:30:11 am
Ironically, it seems that Europe actually wants America to play world policeman for once.

America!!!    Fuck yeah!!
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Havoco on March 22, 2012, 03:44:24 am
 Well, suggestions for a split are largely based on different mentalities between NA and EU. (Stereotyping) NA people are usually more impatient and have less of an attention span then EU people. Which is why NA want to stress having more battles with a little less strategy while Eu is fine with building up an army and invading at a good opportunity. This is why I suggested the continent idea; it would still let Eu fight Na, but it would just stress EU/NA alliances more than a large Na alliance vs a large Eu alliance.

There is also something that no one wants occuring when fighting in an EU faction vs NA faction, ping, ping, ping. You could also include the time differences reason, but I still think that is a valid tactic( an underhanded one, but a valid tactic none the less). It is just an advantage an attacker gets which is why many Eu attack while NA is working and Na attack while Eu is sleeping. It would be nice to see the battle times reworked so their could be some medium between good NA times and good EU times.

I also agree with adding more things for individual players to do, because that might make NA  cope better with building up armies and materials.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: naruto_goku_sephiroth_420 on March 22, 2012, 03:45:49 am
I can tell you that EU and NA have different mentalities because NA people in general are more impatient and have less of an attention span than EU people (stereotyping lightly). Which is why NA want to stress having more battles with a little less strategy while Eu is fine with building up an army and invading at a good opportunity. This is why I suggested the continent idea; it would still let Eu fight Na, but it would just stress EU/NA alliances more than a large Na alliance vs a large Eu alliance.

can we rp a cataclysm like world of warcrafts 2 make calradia splits
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Ufthak on March 22, 2012, 04:12:13 am
If NA and EU are split in such a way that they can't interact, period, I'd be with strat. NA primetime battles are tough for me to attend, and DRZ was more fun to fight anyway. It pains me to agree with Plazek on this, but I'm still curious why you care? It's not like you deal with NA, or are you just afraid that Grey would win strat too quickly without us around to take up extra space while the smaller EU clans are destroyed?
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Havoco on March 22, 2012, 04:18:31 am
Please dont take my faction affiliation into this. I am not suggesting a strat where NA and EU cant interact at all. Here is the post about the continents suggestion.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,28226.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,28226.0.html)
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Matey on March 22, 2012, 05:58:58 am

Basically im just sick of every retard who isnt on top in strat comming here and whining like a total bitch about how strat is unfair :) It isnt unfair. somewhere you failed. real strat suggestions get ignored because the whole section is filled with QQ from losers. Hell my faction has won lands and is losing lands. Just because our alliance isnt strong enough to beat Greys + Nords doesnt mean that stategus is broken it simply means that they are stronger. They may be stronger in terms of economy/players or skill but they are stronger and are winning and thats how it should be.


That said just remember this you dont have a right to hold lands or even survive strat :) just because you lose it doesnt mean its unfair <3


*edit*
To generic NA players who blame DRZ. You decided to ignore the obvious fact that they would look to NA lands. stop complaining you should have been more observant
To generic everyone. Ofc the UIF will ally up they keep winning :D do something about it ^^ maybe search for allies or temporary agreements. In MP eu2 games if someone got too powerfull the others acted. maybe if leaders spoke to each other they would form a temp alliance to stop drz growing.
To harpag. hands off the pope :D

but in EU2 more than half the players are not all permanently allied with each other, so it is possible to get other people to help keep a powerful player in check.
as NA not seeing DRZ coming... of course we did... we knew it would happen before 3.0 even came up, and some people did try to do something about it, it just didnt work.
as for "if you lost, you did something wrong!" i guess so? I have an idea... what if I ask Vovka to let me join DRZ? if he lets me in then I would win at strat right? or maybe I can offer to be his Vassal so that I can claim partial victory as I am on the winning side, that seems to work for a lot of other clans.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Kafein on March 22, 2012, 12:52:29 pm
What is with the obsession of splitting NA and EU, really?

Anyway it all is about balance of power, UIF first formed to counter the Templar bloc. The natural response is to create a counter to perceived threats. The only way to fight back is to form a power block of equal or greater strength, if you refuse to even entertain the idea instead saying things like it is someone else's problem then you are already defeated and will be picked off one by one. Just like the Templar bloc did forcing people to join and easily crushing their enemies until the UIF stopped them.

This would be okay if the game wasn't set in a medieval time. I'm okay with global diplomacy even though I don't like it, but it doesn't fit Strat. Furthermore, it only works until one power block gets an edge over the rest of the world. There are not enough internal destructive forces in Strategus. As long as joining the winners is the only reasonable move, Strat remains dead. The balance of power should exist, but not force the whole map to be bipolar. Factions in the desert zone shouldn't be bothered by things that happen in the nord/vaegir lands.

Strat should be like this :

(click to show/hide)

Not like this :

(click to show/hide)


See what I mean ?
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on March 22, 2012, 01:18:22 pm
Yea, I agree. The game needs to be more like Crusader Kings 2.

However it isn't.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Xant on March 22, 2012, 02:09:27 pm
as NA not seeing DRZ coming... of course we did... we knew it would happen before 3.0 even came up, and some people did try to do something about it, it just didnt work

But this in itself seems completely fine. There was a big EU alliance forming in the beginning of Strat 3.0 to crush DRZ too. It fell apart due to infighting, so it didn't work. The stuff you tried to do didn't work. Hence DRZ gets to keep on steamrolling. I don't see a problem with this. DRZ isn't a problem anyways, it's "just" a single clan, not even the biggest one. They're just incredibly organized so they're a steamroll machine. Which again, is fine.

I don't like huge alliances that just crush tiny factions but that's not what I'm seeing lately. DRZ got some help from Union/Legio when attacking Chaos, but those two clans didn't provide that much help. DRZ could've mustered more strength by themselves if they came full force, for sure. I'm not too familiar with NA politics but weren't Chaos and LLJK allied? If properly organized those two clans could've fought off the attack. Maybe not now since they were at war with Hospitallers but that's not a matter of getting pwned because of massive factions bullying tiny factions, it's just a matter of good timing from DRZ.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Vibe on March 22, 2012, 02:18:36 pm
Vovka you mean bastard, did you have to brainwash Xant?  :cry:
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Xant on March 22, 2012, 02:25:35 pm
Vovka you mean bastard, did you have to brainwash Xant?  :cry:

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be, my young padawan learner.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Tomas on March 22, 2012, 02:49:54 pm
I don't like huge alliances that just crush tiny factions but that's not what I'm seeing lately. DRZ got some help from Union/Legio when attacking Chaos, but those two clans didn't provide that much help. DRZ could've mustered more strength by themselves if they came full force, for sure. I'm not too familiar with NA politics but weren't Chaos and LLJK allied? If properly organized those two clans could've fought off the attack. Maybe not now since they were at war with Hospitallers but that's not a matter of getting pwned because of massive factions bullying tiny factions, it's just a matter of good timing from DRZ.

This is incorrect.  DRZ had a massive amount of help throughout Strat from Bashi, Union, Greys, Legio and 22nd.  Everytime a DRZ caravan passed through any of these faction's lands without being attacked either by the factions themselves or bandits, then DRZ was getting help.  Economic Trading Alliances that span over 50% of the map are far more valuable in Strat than any military alliance. 

To give an example.  In order to match the economic output of 600 people trading over 75% of the map you would need 1800 people trading over the remaining 25% of the map.



@ The original poster - how can you complain about other clans/people playing Strat for reasons other than total victory when the sole admitted aim of the entire Templar block for Strat 3.0 was to kill the Fallen Brigade?  You achieved your aim, but now you are complaining about people wanting to be able to play Strat with similar small goals and ambitions?

People play Strat for all sorts of reasons and there needs to be a different way of measuring victory other than by world conquest.  Personally I would like to see a system that gives negative feedback when you overstep your fair share of the map.  A good organised clan will be able to overcome some of that negative feedback so that they can hold more than their fair share.  Meanwhile the disorganised clans will fail to claim their fair share of the map.  Do this right and clans will be able to go out, fight wars and kill their enemies, but afterwards they will need to retract giving up some of their new lands, thus allowing new/previously beaten factions into the game.  Basically you can make alliances, fight wars and pursue whatever small goals you like, but world domination will be a very costly ambition.  For details on a system that does all this see - http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,28040.0.html
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Harpag on March 22, 2012, 02:55:21 pm
Osiris and all the others who are thinking like him + 157 (lol). Templols lose some battles, but fighting bravely, and never cry. Despite the ongoing war, I personally respect them. These are nice guys and are able to play. We have a lot of fun, cool RP, a lot of XP etc. You tearful assholes, take from them example, instead of mindlessly criticize.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Xant on March 22, 2012, 02:57:01 pm
This is incorrect.  DRZ had a massive amount of help throughout Strat from Bashi, Union, Greys, Legio and 22nd.  Everytime a DRZ caravan passed through any of these faction's lands without being attacked either by the factions themselves or bandits, then DRZ was getting help.  Economic Trading Alliances that span over 50% of the map are far more valuable in Strat than any military alliance. 

I don't think being attacked by bandits is major concern either way as long as you protect your caravans well enough. Don't have to be in a mega alliance to have your caravans get there and back safely.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Turboflex on March 22, 2012, 03:10:55 pm
A lot of Euro's don't seem to get a couple of fundamental facts:
1) NA won't ally together, NA clans dislike each other more than they dislike EU clans.
2) NA players prefer to fight NA players, who the hell wants to deal with a game that has crappy pings & bad times for matches?

So you "won" the grand strategy game of strategus by forming an unstoppable mega alliance at the beginning? Umm congrats? When you play Europa Universalis 3 do you ally France, Spain, England together then  brag about conquering Portugal?

Isn't that the equivalent of playing EU3 on "easy difficulty"?
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Xant on March 22, 2012, 03:16:21 pm
Again, "NA" is not getting attacked by "EU." Some NA clan got attacked by an EU clan with some support from a couple other EU clans. Now DRZ is fighting Kapikulu, an EU clan?
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Turboflex on March 22, 2012, 03:24:22 pm
As others have mentioned, all the UIF clans have already given each other a massive material advantage by establishing and protecting a cross map caravan that they all had peaceful access to for months. This when the top EU clans were already bigger and better organized than any NA clan.

So again, I guess grats on the easy mode win? Maybe next round you can try your "grand strategy game" on medium difficulty?

Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on March 22, 2012, 03:27:40 pm
Well I suppose they could have sat around for until someone dared to attack them... :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Xant on March 22, 2012, 03:35:23 pm
As others have mentioned, all the UIF clans have already given each other a massive material advantage by establishing and protecting a cross map caravan that they all had peaceful access to for months. This when the top EU clans were already bigger and better organized than any NA clan.

I haven't heard of Nords having any massive caravan problems despite not being allied to anyone for the vast majority of Strat.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Cicero on March 22, 2012, 03:47:43 pm
A lot of Euro's don't seem to get a couple of fundamental facts:
1) NA won't ally together, NA clans dislike each other more than they dislike EU clans.
2) NA players prefer to fight NA players, who the hell wants to deal with a game that has crappy pings & bad times for matches?

So you "won" the grand strategy game of strategus by forming an unstoppable mega alliance at the beginning? Umm congrats? When you play Europa Universalis 3 do you ally France, Spain, England together then  brag about conquering Portugal?

Isn't that the equivalent of playing EU3 on "easy difficulty"?
See, I think drugs have done some *good* things for us, I really do. And if you don’t believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a Favor: go home tonight and take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your cd’s and burn em’. 'Cause you know what? The musicians who’ve made all that great music that’s enhanced your lives throughout the years...
Rrrrrrrrrrrrreal ------ high on drugs."
Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. That we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather."

"It's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, it´s what it is ok?. Keep that in mind at all times. Thank you!"
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Tomas on March 22, 2012, 03:48:09 pm
I haven't heard of Nords having any massive caravan problems despite not being allied to anyone for the vast majority of Strat.

Nor did the Templars until they got attacked by the Greys.  Do you think they can still march their caravans through DRZ, Empire, Legio and Merciless lands to fund their war effort?
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: RibaldRon on March 22, 2012, 03:51:20 pm
I didn't really want to reply but..

DRZ isn't a problem anyways, it's "just" a single clan, not even the biggest one.

..I'm not too familiar with NA politics but weren't Chaos and LLJK allied? If properly organized those two clans could've fought off the attack. Maybe not now since they were at war with Hospitallers but that's not a matter of getting pwned because of massive factions bullying tiny factions, it's just a matter of good timing from DRZ.
Firstly, as somebody mentioned,  DRZ had a lot of support, even from the Nords.


And Chaos and LLJK *were* allied, but that ended before DRZ showed up, and what was left of LLJK turned back into tribal warriors, see: Knights of Antioch, allied with DRZ as best I can tell.  We wouldn't have been able to defeat DRZ,  even with the combined  might of those two groups - we likely could not have done it with the...

Hospitallers, who also started the war in NA against us, and then begged DRZ to come and intervene.  So, yeah, it's basically our fault that DRZ outmaneuvered us.  :rolleyes:



I don't think being attacked by bandits is major concern either way as long as you protect your caravans well enough. Don't have to be in a mega alliance to have your caravans get there and back safely.
Everybody in EU just pummeled wataga, and that's pretty much your only bandit clan - the majority of your territories are open to non-NA factions, and even some NA factions.  That's not true in the NA third of the map.  Our caravans get constantly attacked in the EU portion of the map, regardless of any formal hostilities between factions.  When I was with LLJK, our trader had to have an army to make it through your lands.

I have seen EU traders moving hundreds of crates with no troops.

I would say that you have secured your trade routes using diplomacy.

Seems to me that a lot of people are too scared to attack the UIF and so they let them get away with a lot, and you're either for them or against them.  It's only a matter of time before individual neutral factions get targetted.  Red Lotus stayed out of all the NA conflicts, but Hospitallers still took their land at the end.  That weight has to get thrown around somewhere.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 22, 2012, 04:16:05 pm
(click to show/hide)

Some people QQ about strategus, but I think the majority of suggestions and complaints are legitimate.  Strategus game mechanics are horribly flawed.  There's not a lot of incentive for factions to fight over already controlled fiefs (not like the incentive to take over AI fiefs and get money money money).  And there's no penalty for having huge expanses of land (like in Single Player how you have have tax inefficiency if you own more than a certain amount of fiefs).  Hell half the fucking castles and towns are still AI controlled 6 months into this version of strategus. 

Sure some complaints about factions allying are just people whining because they don't understand strategy.  But to ignore the obvious flaws and issues with strategus, and keep patting yourselves on the back is fucking retarded.  Strategus has horrible, game breaking issues that need to be fixed.  Go look through the last 4 months of suggestions and you will realize there have been dozens of GREAT suggestions people have made for improving strategus, and you get nothing but crickets for a response from the devs.

The fact that developers are willing to spend their time adding pixel crack and making things look pretty for c-rpg, instead of improving strategus is really all that needs to be said about their opinion on strategus.  In their mind it's running perfectly, which as anyone with an objective opinion can see, it clearly has some very flawed game mechanics (not to mention just general improvements people have suggested that would make it a better game). 
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Xant on March 22, 2012, 04:22:39 pm
I didn't really want to reply but..
Firstly, as somebody mentioned,  DRZ had a lot of support, even from the Nords.

... What? Nords never supported DRZ, unless you mean mercing in Strat battles is support. Don't think many Nords did that either, seeing as it's NA ping.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on March 22, 2012, 04:27:55 pm
I think mercing has often been associated with allying.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Turboflex on March 22, 2012, 04:43:00 pm
Everybody in EU just pummeled wataga, and that's pretty much your only bandit clan - the majority of your territories are open to non-NA factions, and even some NA factions.  That's not true in the NA third of the map.  Our caravans get constantly attacked in the EU portion of the map, regardless of any formal hostilities between factions.  When I was with LLJK, our trader had to have an army to make it through your lands.

I have seen EU traders moving hundreds of crates with no troops.

I would say that you have secured your trade routes using diplomacy.

After my clan lost Ambean, we evacuated south and ended up hanging out in Tshibitan (or something, empty fief owned by LL I think) for about a week. Every single day we saw a half dozen EU trade caravans pass by the SE-NW route, all loaded up with 300-500 crates. All through nice flat plains too, no forests or rivers to bother the peaceful EU traders. Strategus was setup as complete easy mode for these clans, and even when a clan like DRZ finally moves they attack a weaker clan already fully engaged in a war. Not all EU clans are guilty of this of course (some like Nords/templars did fight), but the ones who didn't do anything but peacefully stockpile for months via a truced up caravan pipeline know who they are. Again if you are playing a "sophisticated stratagy game", you are definitely playing it on easy mode.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Osiris on March 22, 2012, 07:39:58 pm
"
@ The original poster - how can you complain about other clans/people playing Strat for reasons other than total victory when the sole admitted aim of the entire Templar block for Strat 3.0 was to kill the Fallen Brigade?  You achieved your aim, but now you are complaining about people wanting to be able to play Strat with similar small goals and ambitions?"

Im going to spell this out for those of you who seem to think that because im a templar my post means nothing :)

I am not a leader of the Templars and as such i do not make strat policy, (i also dont remember our sole goal for strat being killing the fallens but if thats what you wish to think)

This isnt about NA vs EU. Its one map one world and one game :P If as you say its true that NA clans hate each other more then anyone on EU well it is your right to spend all your efforts on the total destruction of other NA clans. But then what gives you the right to moan when someone from EU hits you ^^.



Im all for strategus changes. ones that make it more fun for the individual. what we dont need is 100 suggestions about limiting clan sizes/alliances just because you want to fight lots of small wars. This is a game played by Humans :o and as such there will always be solid powerbases and alliances. Limit the size of clans and alliances and you can be 100% sure that they will work around it :p

IMO the devs would have more fun (if you like tedius coding then getting flamed to hell for your efforts fun ofc :D ) and be more productive if they focused on making strat more interactive and make more to do for individual players. Devs shouldnt have to step in due to strategus politics.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Crazyi on March 22, 2012, 07:43:40 pm
In all honestly most of this post is saying what is wrong and I think most people are aware of that even if they wish to ignore it. There are 50 posts stating what is wrong, with little on trying to say a way to improve it. Focus the effort on trying to improve it and if you present a problem, try to present a solution as well? I have what I feel is fairly reasonable idea to improving strat and I would love all the feedback possible. I would ask that you keep it constructive even though I know that is asking a lot.

"I like it for the following reasons"
"I dislike it for the following reasons"

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,28338.0.html
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Osiris on March 22, 2012, 07:50:51 pm
ive made a few i think. only one i thought had a decent chance for being implemented was this one (credit to ptx it was mostly his idea but he is lazier then even i am :o)

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,24751.msg357448.html#msg357448
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Uumdi on March 22, 2012, 07:56:42 pm
Strat should be like this :

(click to show/hide)

Not like this :

(click to show/hide)


See what I mean ?


Hahahah, wow that's strikingly similar to Calradia these days.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Matey on March 22, 2012, 08:01:11 pm
as to the start of the round where the initial attempt to curb DRZ/UIF power failed... for those who are unaware of what happened and judge people as having not done enough... well here is more info so that you can make a better educated decision.

Fallen and many EU clans were working together with the hopes of preventing DRZ from taking all of their lands unopposed, though they also knew that they could not interfere with many of DRZ's allies like Grey order and Union. That alliance was betrayed by the Wolves who then put together an alliance that was designed to wipe out Fallen and the other EU clans that wished to get in the UIFs way, I can only assume that the motivation for these clans to side with UIF instead of against UIF was that they wanted to be allowed either entry into the UIF or at least be allowed to peacefully exist after having protected UIF interests. At any rate, Fallen was hoping for an easy time setting up in the steppes where they would have some security against UIF aggression due to the ping wall. Hospitallers and Occitan needed a place to set up and get some land of their own and after being approached by the wolves and probably other clans related to DRZ/UIF they decided to fight against the Fallen in the steppes (though this decision was also helped by the large amount of animosity between Fallen and Hosp/Occ). when Hosp/Occ were on the ropes, wolves also took a big hit fighting against the nords and agreed to join the Fallen's cause, only to betray them a week or so later when the UIF counter attack was ready to go, led by the Bashibazouks who defeated the kapikulus after the wolves betrayed their alliance and attacked them instead of supporting them; meanwhile hosp/occ managed their big comeback with extremely well funded and large armies (funds and armies which likely came from EU allies) and the help of some divine intervention in the form of magic carpet riders, conquered the steppes while Bashis and others came north and attacked HRE.
Also worth noting during this time... FCC initially hoped to stay out of the war in the steppes and to avoid pushing a NA vs EU style conflict, we were somewhat selfishly hoping to ignore the EU side of the map and do our own thing even though we expected the UIF to come knocking eventually, we figured we would focus on our own fun in the meantime; this position did not hold though as I made a judgement call that it was absolutely essential to assist Fallen in the steppes as our relations with hosp/occ had been quite poor and the alliance between hosp/occ and the UIF seemed very obvious to me; as a result the FCC joined in that war on the Fallens side but was ultimately unable to defeat hosp/occ. At that time I also tried to encourage CHAOS and LLJK to commit support to the Fallen as I felt that if the steppes fell to hosp/occ that we may as well consider that land to be UIF controlled and for all intents and purposes lost to the rest of NA and hostile to most NA clans. CHAOS and LLJK had neutral relations with hosp/occ and at least one of those clans had serious animosity with Fallen and ultimately, both groups decided to sit out that conflict. After the steppes fell the Mercs were targetted and mostly wiped out by DRZ and Grey order for being against the UIF and participating in the coalition that attempted to curb UIF power, then the FCC was attacked by a brave kamikaze bandit who really made the few active FCC members aware of just how disinterested we were in strat by this point, as we ended up having something like 4 people show up to defend a fief at 6am est on a work day and so despite having more than enough troops, gear and money, we ended up having some huge defeats agaisnt leiknir and then when we did counter attack against his army which had many devs fighting for it, we suffered a massive bug which led to us losing 2000 armed troops and the last few FCC holdouts gave up on strat. As for what happened after that... I didnt pay much attention to strat but from my understanding... a whole lot of nothing happened in the NA area until eventually lljk and chaos got so bored that they started the green thing and tried to fight hosp/occ and unsurprisngly, UIF launched a full scale invasion against CHAOS once their hosp/occ allies were being threatened.


moral of the story: the only hope of curbing UIF power was for every single non-UIF clan in the game to work together to fight against them from the second strat went live, and to destroy any clan that was sympathetic to the UIF cause. in other words, to become an even bigger and more douchebaggy alliance than the UIF was the only chance to beat the UIF, and most people did not consider that to be their idea of a good time and many smaller clans were too intimidated by the prospect of going against the UIF and instead supported them; while other clans just tried to stay out of it.

hope that all makes sense... i tried to be fairly objective but im sure a few people will yell at me and say im biased and qqing and all that. I think every clan made the decisions they felt were best for them and i actually completely understand why a lot of clans made the decisions they made, and ultimately I think that is how strat should be, i think having the big issue of "should we all try to gang up on the UIF?" is really counter-productive in terms of having fun in strat... turning strat into mega alliance 1 vs mega alliance 2 is really boring, and the smaller conflicts were a lot more fun, but it ultimately seemed to be a whole lot of proxy wars in the bigger picture of UIF vs those who are against it.


p.s. i offer no constructive ideas on how to fix the issue as it seems related to mentalities and i dont see any way to change that. splitting NA and EU would be great for NA but would suck not only for the non-UIF EU clans who would get buttraped every strat and never have any real fun, but it would also suck for UIF as they would have less victims and that would make them sad.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Xant on March 22, 2012, 08:09:05 pm
My first reaction..
(click to show/hide)

 :D
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Matey on March 22, 2012, 08:11:52 pm
My first reaction..
(click to show/hide)

 :D

deal with it! i wrote it mostly for you since you seemed to be poorly informed on some things that happened this round.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Xant on March 22, 2012, 08:16:08 pm
Wut, I knew all of that and never commented to the contrary? I wasn't implying there wasn't "enough done" to attack DRZ, just that it failed. Which is all fine and dandy, lots of twists and battles. The anti-UIF alliance could've worked but mainly seemed to get fucked by kinngrimm's betrayal. Such is life. Just the fact that the alliance was in the works and almost ready to roll is great. It didn't collapse because of UIF magic, it collapsed for other reasons that couldn't have been foreseen.

Edit: Basically, what I'm getting at is: It's a war game, twists and unexpected things are great - one-sided war games aren't interesting, but the Fallen/Byzantium/etc alliance really could've won against DRZ.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Nessaj on March 22, 2012, 08:28:37 pm
Nah Matey, having read a lot of your posts it is clearly you (and NA) who are completely misinformed of what is going on on the EU side. Especially in terms of who is getting/using what resources.

Everyone assume way too much instead of finding the facts -- which is posted on the forum often but buried beneath all the tools who post without reading properly into the subject.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 22, 2012, 09:18:22 pm
I don't want to see strategus be about 1 massive alliance versus another massive alliance.  Factions should have more incentive to fight over the AI controlled territory at the beginning than they do.  There should be enough incentive that factions will risk fighting each other over fiefs from the beginning.

Maybe that means less fiefs, not more as some people have been suggesting.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Matey on March 22, 2012, 11:46:43 pm
Nah Matey, having read a lot of your posts it is clearly you (and NA) who are completely misinformed of what is going on on the EU side. Especially in terms of who is getting/using what resources.

Everyone assume way too much instead of finding the facts -- which is posted on the forum often but buried beneath all the tools who post without reading properly into the subject.

it is possible i was missing out on a bunch of EU stuff, I don't know all the specifics sure, but I tried to accurately convey what happened on the NA side of things and what we knew of the EU affairs. The fact was that the UIF ended up avoiding any direct confrontations until they had time to build up, whereas their opponents had all been well bloodied by conflicts already and were less able to defend themselves.

I would be quite interested in seeing some fairly objective accounts from other perspectives... i tried to be pretty unbiased with my recap of events, so hopefully anyone who expands on it or fills in some blanks can also try to avoid adding any propaganda into their re-telling. and if anyone thinks i misrepresented anything, then feel free to call me out on it and ill try to justify my version... i tried to keep it brief, but it turned into a giant wall of text anyways :D
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Casimir on March 23, 2012, 12:38:32 am
My insight to what's occurred would be pretty simple.

After the initial wars at the outset of Strategus, fighting over claims, border disputes etc. three power blocks were fairly well established. (Desert Alliance / Green Machine / "UIF") 
Although there were factions who were either opposed to these forces or not related to them holding some lands, the majority was consumed by these blocks.

Green Machine and Desert Alliance block clashed, weakened one another, "UIF" factions have now moved in and mopped up most of what was left over after the initial bouts.

My take on it at least.  I don't see any major problem other than the fact that once your out of strategus its next to impossible to get back in. whether that's how the devs want it or not I cant say.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Matey on March 23, 2012, 01:21:14 am
who all consists of the desert alliance? i didnt know green machine fought against any desert factions, i thought they were only fighting against hosp/occ who i would group with UIF. or is the desert alliance all the clans that took apart the anti-UIF alliance at the start in which case i guess hosp/occ are part of the desert alliance? but is the UIF going after hosp/occ? i thought they were helping hosp/occ by taking out the greens while they were fighting hosp/occ.

more details sir!
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Casimir on March 23, 2012, 02:39:02 am
Desert alliance consisted of Crusader Alliance (Templar, SB and previously VR), Wolves, CotGS, French Connection, Hospitaller and Occitain.  Hence why when they declared war on CHAOS/LLJK we sent an army into the north in support of their efforts.

DRZ chose a very good time to strike, with the situation in LLJK ultimately weakening the Green machine which although previously stretched, had held the upper hand in the war against Hospitaller.  (AFAIK)

While DRZ + Union cleared out the Green Machine, Grey Order and Nords attacked those of us in the desert.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Matey on March 23, 2012, 02:43:34 am
so is UIF going to hit hosp/occ? or are they cool with them? i guess we shall see. cant say i feel bad for desert alliance as they chose to fight for UIF earlier in strat instead of trying to work with others to weaken UIF when they had the chance.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Nebun on March 23, 2012, 07:41:11 am
Matey :)) you did even worse then everyone else, rolled over and went to play another game, so you accidently might not lose in this game :) Nice tactic.

Osiris, great post +1
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Gmnotutoo on March 23, 2012, 07:56:14 am
Matey :)) you did even worse then everyone else, rolled over and went to play another game, so you accidently might not lose in this game :) Nice tactic.

Osiris, great post +1

You smell bad.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Matey on March 23, 2012, 08:02:37 am
Matey :)) you did even worse then everyone else, rolled over and went to play another game, so you accidently might not lose in this game :) Nice tactic.


Ehh sure. I just didn't feel like waiting for you to get bored enough to kill us, so after we lost our last army to a bug that never got addressed I just called it quits. But, if it makes you fell better Nebun... I lost at strat 3.0, and I'm OK with that.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Vibe on March 23, 2012, 08:16:40 am
One thing is sure, to beat the UIF one would need to bunch up another mega alliance, just like Matey said, which is not the way how most of the clans on the opposing side of UIF want to play.
Title: Re: Stategus the trooth!
Post by: Vote on March 23, 2012, 08:35:30 am
If you don’t want play like Warsaw pact vs Hungary or CSSR, then you need a NATO to act all together at same time versus UIF. Right now you act mostly solo, you have mostly worse equipment or numbers and you make suicide attacks on UIF. If you don’t want play NATO versus Warsaw Pact from Strategus 4 to 10 then force the developer to make rules/objectives/divisions (like soccer WM) to break the UIF pact.