Author Topic: Stategus the trooth!  (Read 5943 times)

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Offline Uumdi

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2012, 07:56:42 pm »
0
Strat should be like this :

(click to show/hide)

Not like this :

(click to show/hide)


See what I mean ?


Hahahah, wow that's strikingly similar to Calradia these days.
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Offline Matey

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2012, 08:01:11 pm »
+9
as to the start of the round where the initial attempt to curb DRZ/UIF power failed... for those who are unaware of what happened and judge people as having not done enough... well here is more info so that you can make a better educated decision.

Fallen and many EU clans were working together with the hopes of preventing DRZ from taking all of their lands unopposed, though they also knew that they could not interfere with many of DRZ's allies like Grey order and Union. That alliance was betrayed by the Wolves who then put together an alliance that was designed to wipe out Fallen and the other EU clans that wished to get in the UIFs way, I can only assume that the motivation for these clans to side with UIF instead of against UIF was that they wanted to be allowed either entry into the UIF or at least be allowed to peacefully exist after having protected UIF interests. At any rate, Fallen was hoping for an easy time setting up in the steppes where they would have some security against UIF aggression due to the ping wall. Hospitallers and Occitan needed a place to set up and get some land of their own and after being approached by the wolves and probably other clans related to DRZ/UIF they decided to fight against the Fallen in the steppes (though this decision was also helped by the large amount of animosity between Fallen and Hosp/Occ). when Hosp/Occ were on the ropes, wolves also took a big hit fighting against the nords and agreed to join the Fallen's cause, only to betray them a week or so later when the UIF counter attack was ready to go, led by the Bashibazouks who defeated the kapikulus after the wolves betrayed their alliance and attacked them instead of supporting them; meanwhile hosp/occ managed their big comeback with extremely well funded and large armies (funds and armies which likely came from EU allies) and the help of some divine intervention in the form of magic carpet riders, conquered the steppes while Bashis and others came north and attacked HRE.
Also worth noting during this time... FCC initially hoped to stay out of the war in the steppes and to avoid pushing a NA vs EU style conflict, we were somewhat selfishly hoping to ignore the EU side of the map and do our own thing even though we expected the UIF to come knocking eventually, we figured we would focus on our own fun in the meantime; this position did not hold though as I made a judgement call that it was absolutely essential to assist Fallen in the steppes as our relations with hosp/occ had been quite poor and the alliance between hosp/occ and the UIF seemed very obvious to me; as a result the FCC joined in that war on the Fallens side but was ultimately unable to defeat hosp/occ. At that time I also tried to encourage CHAOS and LLJK to commit support to the Fallen as I felt that if the steppes fell to hosp/occ that we may as well consider that land to be UIF controlled and for all intents and purposes lost to the rest of NA and hostile to most NA clans. CHAOS and LLJK had neutral relations with hosp/occ and at least one of those clans had serious animosity with Fallen and ultimately, both groups decided to sit out that conflict. After the steppes fell the Mercs were targetted and mostly wiped out by DRZ and Grey order for being against the UIF and participating in the coalition that attempted to curb UIF power, then the FCC was attacked by a brave kamikaze bandit who really made the few active FCC members aware of just how disinterested we were in strat by this point, as we ended up having something like 4 people show up to defend a fief at 6am est on a work day and so despite having more than enough troops, gear and money, we ended up having some huge defeats agaisnt leiknir and then when we did counter attack against his army which had many devs fighting for it, we suffered a massive bug which led to us losing 2000 armed troops and the last few FCC holdouts gave up on strat. As for what happened after that... I didnt pay much attention to strat but from my understanding... a whole lot of nothing happened in the NA area until eventually lljk and chaos got so bored that they started the green thing and tried to fight hosp/occ and unsurprisngly, UIF launched a full scale invasion against CHAOS once their hosp/occ allies were being threatened.


moral of the story: the only hope of curbing UIF power was for every single non-UIF clan in the game to work together to fight against them from the second strat went live, and to destroy any clan that was sympathetic to the UIF cause. in other words, to become an even bigger and more douchebaggy alliance than the UIF was the only chance to beat the UIF, and most people did not consider that to be their idea of a good time and many smaller clans were too intimidated by the prospect of going against the UIF and instead supported them; while other clans just tried to stay out of it.

hope that all makes sense... i tried to be fairly objective but im sure a few people will yell at me and say im biased and qqing and all that. I think every clan made the decisions they felt were best for them and i actually completely understand why a lot of clans made the decisions they made, and ultimately I think that is how strat should be, i think having the big issue of "should we all try to gang up on the UIF?" is really counter-productive in terms of having fun in strat... turning strat into mega alliance 1 vs mega alliance 2 is really boring, and the smaller conflicts were a lot more fun, but it ultimately seemed to be a whole lot of proxy wars in the bigger picture of UIF vs those who are against it.


p.s. i offer no constructive ideas on how to fix the issue as it seems related to mentalities and i dont see any way to change that. splitting NA and EU would be great for NA but would suck not only for the non-UIF EU clans who would get buttraped every strat and never have any real fun, but it would also suck for UIF as they would have less victims and that would make them sad.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 08:03:35 pm by Matey »

Offline Xant

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2012, 08:09:05 pm »
0
My first reaction..
(click to show/hide)

 :D
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Offline Matey

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2012, 08:11:52 pm »
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My first reaction..
(click to show/hide)

 :D

deal with it! i wrote it mostly for you since you seemed to be poorly informed on some things that happened this round.

Offline Xant

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2012, 08:16:08 pm »
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Wut, I knew all of that and never commented to the contrary? I wasn't implying there wasn't "enough done" to attack DRZ, just that it failed. Which is all fine and dandy, lots of twists and battles. The anti-UIF alliance could've worked but mainly seemed to get fucked by kinngrimm's betrayal. Such is life. Just the fact that the alliance was in the works and almost ready to roll is great. It didn't collapse because of UIF magic, it collapsed for other reasons that couldn't have been foreseen.

Edit: Basically, what I'm getting at is: It's a war game, twists and unexpected things are great - one-sided war games aren't interesting, but the Fallen/Byzantium/etc alliance really could've won against DRZ.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2012, 08:18:35 pm by Xant »
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Offline Nessaj

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2012, 08:28:37 pm »
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Nah Matey, having read a lot of your posts it is clearly you (and NA) who are completely misinformed of what is going on on the EU side. Especially in terms of who is getting/using what resources.

Everyone assume way too much instead of finding the facts -- which is posted on the forum often but buried beneath all the tools who post without reading properly into the subject.
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Offline CrazyCracka420

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2012, 09:18:22 pm »
+1
I don't want to see strategus be about 1 massive alliance versus another massive alliance.  Factions should have more incentive to fight over the AI controlled territory at the beginning than they do.  There should be enough incentive that factions will risk fighting each other over fiefs from the beginning.

Maybe that means less fiefs, not more as some people have been suggesting.
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Offline Matey

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2012, 11:46:43 pm »
+2
Nah Matey, having read a lot of your posts it is clearly you (and NA) who are completely misinformed of what is going on on the EU side. Especially in terms of who is getting/using what resources.

Everyone assume way too much instead of finding the facts -- which is posted on the forum often but buried beneath all the tools who post without reading properly into the subject.

it is possible i was missing out on a bunch of EU stuff, I don't know all the specifics sure, but I tried to accurately convey what happened on the NA side of things and what we knew of the EU affairs. The fact was that the UIF ended up avoiding any direct confrontations until they had time to build up, whereas their opponents had all been well bloodied by conflicts already and were less able to defend themselves.

I would be quite interested in seeing some fairly objective accounts from other perspectives... i tried to be pretty unbiased with my recap of events, so hopefully anyone who expands on it or fills in some blanks can also try to avoid adding any propaganda into their re-telling. and if anyone thinks i misrepresented anything, then feel free to call me out on it and ill try to justify my version... i tried to keep it brief, but it turned into a giant wall of text anyways :D

Offline Casimir

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #68 on: March 23, 2012, 12:38:32 am »
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My insight to what's occurred would be pretty simple.

After the initial wars at the outset of Strategus, fighting over claims, border disputes etc. three power blocks were fairly well established. (Desert Alliance / Green Machine / "UIF") 
Although there were factions who were either opposed to these forces or not related to them holding some lands, the majority was consumed by these blocks.

Green Machine and Desert Alliance block clashed, weakened one another, "UIF" factions have now moved in and mopped up most of what was left over after the initial bouts.

My take on it at least.  I don't see any major problem other than the fact that once your out of strategus its next to impossible to get back in. whether that's how the devs want it or not I cant say.
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Offline Matey

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #69 on: March 23, 2012, 01:21:14 am »
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who all consists of the desert alliance? i didnt know green machine fought against any desert factions, i thought they were only fighting against hosp/occ who i would group with UIF. or is the desert alliance all the clans that took apart the anti-UIF alliance at the start in which case i guess hosp/occ are part of the desert alliance? but is the UIF going after hosp/occ? i thought they were helping hosp/occ by taking out the greens while they were fighting hosp/occ.

more details sir!

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #70 on: March 23, 2012, 02:39:02 am »
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Desert alliance consisted of Crusader Alliance (Templar, SB and previously VR), Wolves, CotGS, French Connection, Hospitaller and Occitain.  Hence why when they declared war on CHAOS/LLJK we sent an army into the north in support of their efforts.

DRZ chose a very good time to strike, with the situation in LLJK ultimately weakening the Green machine which although previously stretched, had held the upper hand in the war against Hospitaller.  (AFAIK)

While DRZ + Union cleared out the Green Machine, Grey Order and Nords attacked those of us in the desert.
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Offline Matey

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #71 on: March 23, 2012, 02:43:34 am »
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so is UIF going to hit hosp/occ? or are they cool with them? i guess we shall see. cant say i feel bad for desert alliance as they chose to fight for UIF earlier in strat instead of trying to work with others to weaken UIF when they had the chance.

Offline Nebun

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #72 on: March 23, 2012, 07:41:11 am »
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Matey :)) you did even worse then everyone else, rolled over and went to play another game, so you accidently might not lose in this game :) Nice tactic.

Osiris, great post +1
« Last Edit: March 23, 2012, 07:42:28 am by Nebun »
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Offline Gmnotutoo

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #73 on: March 23, 2012, 07:56:14 am »
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Matey :)) you did even worse then everyone else, rolled over and went to play another game, so you accidently might not lose in this game :) Nice tactic.

Osiris, great post +1

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Offline Matey

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Re: Stategus the trooth!
« Reply #74 on: March 23, 2012, 08:02:37 am »
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Matey :)) you did even worse then everyone else, rolled over and went to play another game, so you accidently might not lose in this game :) Nice tactic.


Ehh sure. I just didn't feel like waiting for you to get bored enough to kill us, so after we lost our last army to a bug that never got addressed I just called it quits. But, if it makes you fell better Nebun... I lost at strat 3.0, and I'm OK with that.