cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Sergee on March 18, 2012, 06:05:37 pm
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The NA1 maps are seriously horrid and its usually like 3 open field maps in a row. Nobody wants to play those maps seriously can we get some decent maps.
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Just a reminder, there were never any map changes on NA1 until the Community Server came up and then decided that they did indeed need to change maps and haven't done any changes since then.
Please change them again.
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Fully agree with Serge. Bring back some of the old maps... having an infantry map once in a while would be a welcome change.
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Many of the community maps do not work with 100+ players. Don't put too many ATS_Street_Riot, or cavalry (like myself) will bitch and moan.
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most of EU maps are also shit damn chagan making cav maps
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I think if there was just more variety, more people would be happy.
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bring back arena map only good map in game
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I think if there was just more variety, more people would be happy.
Agreed, 9/10 are open fields with maybe a few buildings. Bring back Port assault, arena, the port map with all the ships the teams fought on, many of the castle-esque maps.
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I agree wholeheartedly.
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I think every map should have buildings if it doesn't GG infantry have fun.
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I think every map should have buildings if it doesn't GG infantry have fun.
Agreed, my favourite maps are ones that are good for all classes. There are far too many maps on NA1 where the only cover for infantry is trees or sometimes there is no cover at all. I'm cavalry and I don't even have fun on those maps.
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The only one I toally hate is the massive semi-castle(2-3 huge bridges) map with 3 tiers and long winding roads and it nearly aways takes 7 min to finish each round. Yes there is a shortcut down but more than half the team just plays NASCAR with each other. This map is horrible!! I do plan on making some solid all around maps soon.
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Also maps where one side can get on a building, the other side needs to as well. I don't remember the names of the maps well but there are many maps that one sides range can just sit on top of a house and not worry about cav while the other is forced to dodge them.
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+1 to this! The map rotation is so horrible!
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This should have been made ages ago! The maps are terrible, and the good maps where cav had no presence have disappeared. Bring back the map with the ships around the dock that you could climb on! Bring back the city maps!
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This should have been made ages ago! The maps are terrible, and the good maps where cav had no presence have disappeared. Bring back the map with the ships around the dock that you could climb on! Bring back the city maps!
There shouldn't be maps where any class has "no presence". I am all for getting rid of the random plains maps but putting in shit maps where only STR build melee can do well in their place is not the answer to that.
Balanced maps for lyfe yo.
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yeah i gotta say... i've never been a huge fan of cav, but since coming back I find I hate cav at least 5x more... and i think a big part of that is cause of the maps which are almost all perfect for cav.
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BLOOD ARENA NOW!!!!!
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Yes, please. I don't mind a random plains map now and again, but we really only need one plains map in the rotation. Also, after a while all the village maps seem like the same map. We just need some more variety.
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Fully agree with Serge. Bring back some of the old maps... having an infantry map once in a while would be a welcome change.
If you want infantry maps go circle jerk with all of your buddies on the infantry only server. All I hear is infantry bitching about there not being maps only made for them. This is not an infantry only game so grow some fucking balls and learn to play with all of the classes.
The only change that really needs to be made is the removal of all ATS maps. Every single one of them is a complete pile of dog shit. Invisible walls, thousands of props that always get in your way and most of them are not made for all classes.
IMO any map that isnt fun for everyone to play and isn't suited for all types of classes should be removed from the server. CRPG is a game where the maps account for a huge part of the gameplay. Its pretty shity when I have to quit and go play another game every other map change because of the poor choice in maps.
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If you want infantry maps go circle jerk with all of your buddies on the infantry only server. All I hear is infantry bitching about there not being maps only made for them. This is not an infantry only game so grow some fucking balls and learn to play with all of the classes.
The only change that really needs to be made is the removal of all ATS maps. Every single one of them is a complete pile of dog shit. Invisible walls, thousands of props that always get in your way and most of them are not made for all classes.
IMO any map that isnt fun for everyone to play and isn't suited for all types of classes should be removed from the server. CRPG is a game where the maps account for a huge part of the gameplay. Its pretty shity when I have to quit and go play another game every other map change because of the poor choice in maps.
Reread what you wrote man....If maps aren't suited for ALL classes then they should be removed. That is what we are asking for. The number of maps that have little to no cover for infantry are astounding. It is more than obvious that the people who chose the maps are/were not infantry players. It is also obvious that majority of players play infantry. I would say atleast 50% of the server is infantry at any given time (probably higher), yet the majority is forced to play on maps that heavily favor the minority (cav). Equality is all that we ask for. :D
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You are not asking for equality, you are asking for a cluster fuck. I'm primarily a ranged guy, or polearm guy. Open maps are far superior then most city maps (especially the many many bad maps in the ATS map pack). They require teamwork not just mindless running.
There are currently:
20 0pen style maps (including all ruin maps such as 'Field by the river'.
20 village type maps
6 city maps.
8 Of these maps are 'Native' maps (that's including one random plains).
I'd like there to be about 10 city maps, but there simply are no good ones out there. What I'd also like is more custom village maps (that's actually made for multiplayer).
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The NA1 maps are seriously horrid and its usually like 3 open field maps in a row. Nobody wants to play those maps seriously can we get some decent maps.
you hate them being a 2her who does not carry a shield.
I like the open maps, keep em.
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You are not asking for equality, you are asking for a cluster fuck. I'm primarily a ranged guy, or polearm guy. Open maps are far superior then most city maps (especially the many many bad maps in the ATS map pack). They require teamwork not just mindless running.
I just played on NA1 for 4 maps and the maps were 1 open map, 2 random plains maps and then another open map, can you atleast change the rotation so all the cav maps aren't after each other it's no fun for anyone.
Random plains maps (or any open maps with no cover except tree's for infantry) don't require teamwork they just require camping and staying as one massive group to protect from cavalry which isn't fun at all for me when i'm cavalry or when i'm infantry.
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I just played on NA1 for 4 maps and the maps were 1 open map, 2 random plains maps and then another open map, can you atleast change the rotation so all the cav maps aren't after each other it's no fun for anyone.
Random plains maps (or any open maps with no cover except tree's for infantry) don't require teamwork they just require camping and staying as one massive group to protect from cavalry which isn't fun at all for me when i'm cavalry or when i'm infantry.
Yep I was on for around 9 maps earlier today. 6 open field/plains maps, 2 open plains maps with a couple ruins for melee to cower in, and 1 city map.
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There shouldn't be maps where any class has "no presence". I am all for getting rid of the random plains maps but putting in shit maps where only STR build melee can do well in their place is not the answer to that.
Balanced maps for lyfe yo.
Well the context was assuming we kept the mostly flat random plains with a few twigs here and there for "cover". But yes, I too am in favor of balanced maps where archers actually have an advantage against cav on some part of the map and vice versa.
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Well the context was assuming we kept the mostly flat random plains with a few twigs here and there for "cover". But yes, I too am in favor of balanced maps where archers actually have an advantage against cav on some part of the map and vice versa.
Mappers...please, please do it like Tropical and have multiple routes for everyone to go everywhere. Expediting the ends of rounds is hard to do for infantry-friendly maps, but it should be striven for. Single routes to an easily defended campnest can really delay the ends of games, especially with 100+ players. The problems associated with them are much worse when they are located near spawns.
Cross-posting my Commandments from the Official Feedback thread in Scene Editing:
1. Avoid uber-campable positions that are too-easily guarded.
A good example of 1 (and 3) is Winter Village (Native). XP Barn is by one team's spawn, has one entrance, shields all interior players from ranged, and makes for very dull games when the tactic is used...flags will NEVER spawn in 100+ playercounts in an XP barn camp. 1 is also very typical of Random Steppe maps, as there are no other forms of cover and all infantry flock to the highest hill for the entire round.
Campable positions shouldn't be undefeatable. The more valuable a camp position is, the further away from spawns it should be.
2. Use multiple routes, avoid dead-ends as a rule of thumb.
Seriously. Lots of props and models, unfortunately, have one entrance. These campable dead-ends should usually be barricaded off with stuff that makes it obvious (doors, gates, not just a random wheelbarrow or cart)
3. Steep hills should be inaccessible.
Steep hills (over 45 degree incline) are unrealistic and never fun to fight on. M&B's engine lets characters walk up 89 degree cliffs, unfortunately, so it's up to us mappers to prevent that from happening.
4. Unbalanced spawns
Unbalanced spawns occur when one spawn is near campable areas and one team is not.
5. Keep action away from invisible walls, and make invisible walls obvious.
Invisible walls should be in places it is obvious the players shouldn't be able to go. Have you ever ran in to an invisible wall on Glacier Valley and thought, "WTF INVISIBLE WALL, GAY"? Probably not. Many, many maps include scenery and cover directly next to the automatic map borders. I personally fucking HATE those borders, as unmounted horses vanish when they touch them, many times in front of your eyes.
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you hate them being a 2her who does not carry a shield.
I like the open maps, keep em.
lols ya cause when you pop your shield on your gonna defeat Badplayer on hes giant horse. GG
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lols ya cause when you pop your shield on your gonna defeat Badplayer on hes giant horse. GG
It's true. Whenever Badplayer sees a shield, he cries and takes his horse home.
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please make maps with nothing but narrow hallways so that ranged like myself can always headshot serge and his stupid stacked heirloomed armor and iron flesh.
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lols ya cause when you pop your shield on your gonna defeat Badplayer on hes giant horse. GG
the only option is get riding serge.
cut off your dick and embrace being cavalry.
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the only option is get riding serge.
cut off your dick and embrace being cavalry.
Alternatively ride with my and dynamike. I'll teach you to play pro cav. Dyna will teach you how to play without killing teamates. Together, we will create the most terrible horrific monster to date.
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Gotta disagree. I'd go the opposite and say there's too many city/village/castle type of maps in the rotation. If you want siege maps, go to the siege server. I think it sucks when you play 3 or 4 enclosed maps in a row (like the ones inside of a castle/city where there's 5 foot wide streets everywhere).
I really enjoy the open battles where you literally have 30-40 infantry against another 30-40 infantry fighting along a front. Intense and really reminds me of what I imagine when I think of middle age warfare.
People are complaining because their class can't 1v1 every other person or class in the game? Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit. You should have to rely on teammates for certain support. Ranged support, cavalry support, pikemen support. A 2h'er without support is going to have some problems with cavalry on an open field map, that doesn't mean they should remove all the open field maps from the battle rotation...it means you need to adjust your play style and run with some teammates who can support each other.
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Once again. The problem isn't that there are open maps and random plains maps. The problem is that the rotation currently has it so there are like 5 wide open maps in a row. How about some variety? You can't seriously be against a little flavor, can you? If the answer is yes, then GTFO troll.
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Once again. The problem isn't that there are open maps and random plains maps. The problem is that the rotation currently has it so there are like 5 wide open maps in a row. How about some variety? You can't seriously be against a little flavor, can you? If the answer is yes, then GTFO troll.
No I agree they should be mixed up. As I said, I don't like 5 village maps in a row with 5 foot wide streets, so I would also be against playing 5 random maps in a row (for the sake of me being consistent in my views).
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03/19 2012:
Battle: Added commercial_city
Removed mountain_warfare
Randomized NA1 rotation
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Agreed. too many openfield maps, devs should actually take time to choose maps for the rotation.
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I really enjoy the open battles where you literally have 30-40 infantry against another 30-40 infantry fighting along a front. Intense and really reminds me of what I imagine when I think of middle age warfare.
what game are you playing? every time infantry tries to engage like that they get raped by cav and archers. EVERY TIME.
oh and for the 1v1 all the time, yeah that never happens... i like to challenge cav to 1v1 as a shielder but i always get swarmed by 2-6 cav ;{
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Much appreciated if you did actually make the rotation a little better.
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what game are you playing? every time infantry tries to engage like that they get raped by cav and archers. EVERY TIME.
oh and for the 1v1 all the time, yeah that never happens... i like to challenge cav to 1v1 as a shielder but i always get swarmed by 2-6 cav ;{
Shit must be rough for you Matey you wear light armor too one cav bump from badplayer. GG
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what game are you playing? every time infantry tries to engage like that they get raped by cav and archers. EVERY TIME.
oh and for the 1v1 all the time, yeah that never happens... i like to challenge cav to 1v1 as a shielder but i always get swarmed by 2-6 cav ;{
Yes cavalry is waiting to pounce until both infantry masses collide, but I'd still wager the majority of people being killed out there are from other melee. Sounds like the fear factor of cavalry is getting into your head old man. Maybe you should hang up the shield :)
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i was trying to do pure 2 hander as i leveled to save upkeep cost and stuff and in teh past week the top 5 players on each team are usually pretty bad lancer cav every round because everything is open plains, i played today for an hour and it was 4 open plains maps in a row, all dominated by lancer cav + team that was most banner stacked as they actually stuck together
bad maps, bad cav, bad game
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Yes cavalry is waiting to pounce until both infantry masses collide, but I'd still wager the majority of people being killed out there are from other melee. Sounds like the fear factor of cavalry is getting into your head old man. Maybe you should hang up the shield :)
fear factor eh, i still go out into the open trying to bait them to come after me, and i still pwn the first horse to take a shot at me 75% of the time, the problem is the 2nd, 3rd and 4th cav who are following behind :/
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Mounted weapons inflict a little more then 1/5th of all damage on NA1. That doesnt count horse bumps, and as far as I am aware no one knows the kill breakdown.
That being said, people are adapting to the open field maps, they are rerolling as cav...
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No joke. More cavalry every day.
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I like the maps.
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There's still less than 1/3 cavalry on the map. And if mounted weapons do 1/5th of all damage on NA, then I can't see how people would justify the conclusions they're making.
It's not overpowered, it's not overplayed. Adapt or die.
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New maps please. Bring back Arena and some more closed in maps.
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So, is the issue just not clear to people? I'm surprised to hear any dissent, to be honest. Maybe every skilled player in NA 1 should respec to lancer. We could flood the server with a rape train of lancers on a scale that's never been seen before.
Personally, I get my best kdr when I'm lancing... and I'm just above average. I know there are plenty of better cav than me that aren't playing cav at the moment. So, we could definitely make it happen.
I really can't think of a better way to lobby this through than to work the community into a rage frenzy. If they don't think it's a problem, LET'S MAKE IT A PROBLEM.
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I was getting near the top of the list using a rouncy, practice lance, and the armor my character came with.
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If you go to the scene section, mirror maps are denied. One potential reason why there are fewer city maps. Doesnt make much sense to me personally, cities are planned and supposed to be reasonably N to S oriented(or 45degrees turned) so at the least the roads will be symetrical. I was actually going to make a map but after reading the no mirror map, its pretty much impossible to keep balance for all classes in mind. I really think this rule needs to be changed if you want to see more "balanced" maps.
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I seriously dont get why u guys hate the maps/rotation, I'm playing 2h myself and dont find it annoying.
Learn to work as a team?
Played with ManOfWar_Chaos and his fellows, superb teamwork, easily slaughter any threat including sneaky cav. And I wasn't even on voice chat with them.
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no mirror map, its pretty much impossible to keep balance for all classes in mind. I really think this rule needs to be changed if you want to see more "balanced" maps.
Absolute symmetry isn't terribly important for balance in this game. Map balance is much more important on games like Starcraft, where resources must be harvested from the map to construct buildings/fortify areas, etc. and even a single resource difference can upset the balance.
cRPG map balance is mainly determinant of which classes are useful (cav, melee, ranged). Asymmetry of paths isn't really an issue...only asymmetry of area type can really muck the balance.
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They arent being denied on absolute symmetry. Also the word means equal balance on both sides of a given line, so giving equal opportunity to both sides is an important part of map balance. How the map unfolds is certainly determined on what classes are present. I feel if you give good places for infantry to skirmish, limited calvary lanes, and places for archers to safely shoot at key points while having a limited arc is the way to impose MORE balance than what is there. Perfect balance will never be possible due to the nature of the game. If the sides look similar the map is denied, which is why I think there are fewer city maps in the rotation. These maps are also harder to create in the editor. Several have been denied simply because the sides are too similar.
I really don't have a big problem with the map rotation, but I do feel one side always has an advantage. Either they have to move a shorter distance to the central tower. Their side has a roof with a peak for their archers to freely shoot and have cover, while the other team starts in a field with no such benefit. There is one city map where the team has to climb up a tiny freaking ladder and their whole team can be on the roof infront just shooting everyone that climbs up. The only two other entrances are tiny slits in the outter walls doors that could be blocked by 2 shielders. I could go on and on but the point is I feel there could be a better attempt at balance than what currently is on most maps. Once again I don't think it is that massive of a problem, but it could be better.
I can totally understand not wanting cookie cutter maps because it would feel odd playing it, but you can still impose map balance and make the structures provide aesthetic variety.
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There is a long thread over in scene editing dedicated to 'fixing maps'. By all means, take some pictures and explain what you mean. Or post in the map makers own thread.
I rather have open maps then 'run straight ahead and die' maps. Play smart, team up.
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Some map popped up today in NA 1 called Canals of this City or some shit like that.
Was a really good map.
I'm sure Cav didn't like it, but it was refreshing for Infantry to have close quarters combat like that.
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There is a long thread over in scene editing dedicated to 'fixing maps'. By all means, take some pictures and explain what you mean. Or post in the map makers own thread.
Do this. Jacko does a great job of taking feedback in that thread and it lets mappers know what to fix.
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Didnt know the maps would be edited upon suggestion(of course if deemed appropriate). Excellent tyvm I shall do this.
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NA map rotation is shit cavmap/random plains nonstop, change this shit. yes there's a thread about this already, but there's been no action on this and fixing it would be no more than 2 hours of work so please, just fix it already
edit: i'll do it myself if you let me
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Yes.
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There is already a thread for this. Please don't clutter up the forum with what is now spam. As Jacko stated, go to the Scene Editing forum and make actual suggestions. Make your own perfect map rotation list and post it, give feedback in the map threads. But enough with the "It's shit" and "fix it already" comments. They aren't helpful and are a bit insulting to people who are working to make them.
EDIT: Threads were merged
Merged the threads, no need to open up more.
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if someone hosts a na 1 mirror with all of the NA maps on it and gives me admin there i'll run through them all and tag them shit or not, i can't do that on my own but it should be trivial for the devs
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There is already a thread for this. Please don't clutter up the forum with what is now spam. As Jacko stated, go to the Scene Editing forum and make actual suggestions. Make your own perfect map rotation list and post it, give feedback in the map threads. But enough with the "It's shit" and "fix it already" comments. They aren't helpful and are a bit insulting to people who are working to make them.
We were told by other NA admins during a game to flood the General Discussion Board and suggestions forum with threads about it until it gets fixed.
...Contradicting Admins....
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if you agree with the OP make your own thread
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sorry but na_1 was 7 open plains maps in a row all filled with xbow cavs and lancer cav until i logged off and i bet it was just more open plains after that. everyone was unhappy about it for hours and if anything whatever fixes they did the rotation made it even more open plains and the NA community tends to get neglected a bit so i fully encourage occupying crpg forums for the sake of the 1 percent of good maps and throw out the 99 percent open plains
we want the 1 percent
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Want to buy new admin
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You guys are making my life difficult
I can't grind this last 2.5 million XP!
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Really though, this shit's getting old.
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...
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Merged the threads, no need to open up more.