EU builds are notorious for maxing WM and ignoring Ironflesh, then complain when superior players with superior builds 1 shot them. Don't be one of these guys.
I'm a pure 2h and I have 7 wm, 164 wpf, because why not?
If you're gunna go only 2h then by all means, do it. I hear you get diminishing returns after 160 or so. But i dont care cus I have nothing else to put points in.
Don't forget that the repair frequency of your weapon is wpf dependant. So with more weapon points you can wear slightly heavier armor for the same upkeep. Of course heavier amor reduces your effective weapon points so you have to find the balance which best suits your gamestyle.
EU builds are notorious for maxing WM and ignoring Ironflesh, then complain when superior players with superior builds 1 shot them. Don't be one of these guys.
I usualy ignore wm if i go detic build.
But i did 15-27 lvl 32 build with like full wm and you will definatly notice a differance when going for the super feints or chambers.
Don't forget that the repair frequency of your weapon is wpf dependant. So with more weapon points you can wear slightly heavier armor for the same upkeep. Of course heavier amor reduces your effective weapon points so you have to find the balance which best suits your gamestyle.
Oh wow, silly Ammurricans and their silly metagame :mrgreen:. WM isn't useless. Strenght maybe gives you some onehit kills, but in the end you are so slow and dont have any athletics either. Anything below ath 6 is horsecrap to play all the time. Yes I have full- str build alt myself and I like playing with it sometimes. However it is not meant for "competetive" play and it's weaknesses rather obvious. Slow slow slow. Wayne would have hit you several times before your swing would even start and then circled around you with naked girl body and uglyface.
And of course wise words from the carrier of the hammer of the truth, who isn't afraid to swing it :wink:
lol, I one-shot Wayne once at the start of the round with a right swing.
No one said WM is useless, if you actually read all of the posts in this thread. I am simply contending that Ironflesh is a better investment of skill points than WM will ever be for a single proficiency non-hybrid melee.
It is actually kinda ironic that the continent which features way more ranged tends to shun a skill that allows you to even stand a chance at surviving the round for longer as a melee.
I you only use one proficiency, and that it is melee, just go ~3WM.
Here's a nice level 30 2h build :
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 18
Agility: 21
Hit points: 65
Skills to attributes: 8
Ironflesh: 6
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 0
Athletics: 7
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 4
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 138
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
65 HP is quite unusual with that speed, so at least in EU, people will be surprised by the amount of hits you can take. It's probably a good idea to wear a coat of plates or better, to get the maximum advantage out of your HP.
With arrows doing pierce damage, I think the EU opinion is that it's better to dodge.Again, athletics not WM.
With arrows doing pierce damage, I think the EU opinion is that it's better to dodge.
Difficult to do when half the enemy team is ranged.
I promised myself in a past topic that I would stop trying to convince people that IF is better than WM.
I think I will hold myself to that now.
Do you really think it is, when one have +3 armour and +3 gauntlets?
I promised myself in a past topic that I would stop trying to convince people that IF is better than WM.
I think I will hold myself to that now.
Yes. IF becomes even more lucrative with fully heirloomed armor pieces.
Do you really think it is, when one have +3 armour and +3 gauntlets?
I dont see a sense in IF, since you get a HP bonus with each lvl and with each point on str. And If I have +3 armour and +3 gauntlets, IF is totaly useless in my opinion.
It is when you die with too few hits to your liking. If everytime you die, it's not because you took that unexpected hit in a duel, but you were ganked and couldn't do anything about it, then it's time to stop investing in more HP/armor.
High agi + High WM = fun to play.
That's the one reason for me at least
Do whatever you feel comfortable with. Some need their weapon master, some don't. It's all about feel, not what's best on paperThats true.
Thats true.
Let us summarize it. IF is better than WM.
But my questions was, is WM useful. Do you have any experinece with something like 9 wm in one class, like 2handed or polearm?
Is 9 wm for a pure melee build to much. This is always a subjective opinion, but im interested in your view.
I do not think anybody will advocate getting 9 WM for a melee non-hybrid build.
I do :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
7 ath is too slow for me. And wouldnt it be better to put 3 IF points in WM? I dont see a sense in IF, since you get a HP bonus with each lvl and with each point on str. And If I have +3 armour and +3 gauntlets, IF is totaly useless in my opinion.
Enjoy your disturbingly low amount of Strength, then >.>
Do not have info about Aussi builds though
lol, I one-shot Wayne once at the start of the round with a right swing.
No one said WM is useless, if you actually read all of the posts in this thread. I am simply contending that Ironflesh is a better investment of skill points than WM will ever be for a single proficiency non-hybrid melee.
It is actually kinda ironic that the continent which features way more ranged tends to shun a skill that allows you to even stand a chance at surviving the round for longer as a melee.
since you get a HP bonus with each lvl
I would say agi build is more powerful since it can easilly dodge the arrows and actually catch the archer who is running away...
Well I don't think you posess that kind of skills you could beat Wayne so easilly...
Well maybe you didn't actually say WM is useless but OP was asking if it is useful and you run to say quite the opposite. Something tells me that you are stacking strenght and completely underestimating the importance of agility and the benefits it gives with athletics, and weaponmaster. Yeah when it really comes to it, it's just what you prefer. I know high IF with heavy armor is hard to kill and absorbs many hits but due to character's slow movement it is more likely to end in a situation where you are completely raped with pikes + other weapons, and there is nothing you can do because you are not able to move out from their range.
Isn't it ironic that a continent with less ranged tends to stack strenght and ironflesh even if they wouldn't neccessarily have to because they can simply dodge the few arrows that are flying on the server? And what about lighter gear and athletics in a situation where you are facing an archer? I would say agi build is more powerful since it can easilly dodge the arrows and actually catch the archer who is running away... Situation doesn't look so bright for str build because the bundle of sticks just keeps shooting you, hitting you every time while running.
Goddamn you Tears Of Destiny of Chaos...
@Rubicon
You use medium light armor and you usually die in 2 swings (I rarely need 3 to kill you and I have just 6 PS).
IF is more useful than amount of armor you have in many situations. You see, armor is only good for cut weapons and lately many people use pikes and other weapons which deal pierce damage. Pierce damage eats through armor, just as well as blunt damage.
Great Axe - 43 Cut
| Morningstar 38 Pierce
| Bar Mace 35 Blunt
|
About WM (something I forgot to mention). It's very useful for one handers but twohanders and polearmers can't really feel the difference (unless they spam katana and use light armor aka ninja but that's not very smart thing to do).
Actually, it's even MORE useless for 1-handers because of their initially fast swing speed. I used to use 5 wm because I had nothing better to put points in. Now I go with 0 WM and there's really no difference. According to the damage calculator I only lose 1 point of damage so...yeah...
I use an 18/21 build and switching my points from WM to IF has made a HUGE difference. My swing speed difference is barely noticeable, but my survivability has gone up dramatically.
Played from level 1 to level 29 without WM this gen on my main (1h/shield) and intended to do a 0 WM build and go for 27/15 at level 32 (you posted in my thread about that several times). I thought I didn't notice that much of a difference. And you don't in general.
UNTIL you fight that 2h with maxed out WM. It might be just a 2-4% difference in swingspeed, but I definatly feel it makes a difference in those 1v1 situations.
Ultimately, the difference between a 27/15 build no wm and a 21/18 build full wm comes down to about 1 level of PS difference in damage (due to wpf giving a small damage increase) and 1 athletics.
To be able be more competitive when dueling, I chose the 1 athletics, as mobility and a slightly faster swing speed allow for better range control (needed as a 1h) and slightly faster feints/fake swings.
About WM (something I forgot to mention). It's very useful for one handers but twohanders and polearmers can't really feel the difference (unless they spam katana and use light armor aka ninja but that's not very smart thing to do).
...weapon proficiency has a greater absolute reduction in the time per attack for slower weapons than for faster weapons.
Let us summarize it. IF is better than WM.
But my questions was, is WM useful.
WM isn't useless. Strenght maybe gives you some onehit kills, but in the end you are so slow and dont have any athletics either.
To put this in perspective, a level 30 character with 3 agility, no weapon master, and 110 polearm proficiency would attack ~5% slower than a level 30 character with 27 agility, 9 weapon master, and 180 polearm proficiency if both characters were to use a speed 94 polearm. The absolute difference in time per attack between these two characters would be ~0.06 seconds.
Well maybe you didn't actually say WM is useless but OP was asking if it is useful and you run to say quite the opposite. Something tells me that you are stacking strenght and completely underestimating the importance of agility and the benefits it gives with athletics, and weaponmaster. Yeah when it really comes to it, it's just what you prefer. I know high IF with heavy armor is hard to kill and absorbs many hits but due to character's slow movement it is more likely to end in a situation where you are completely raped with pikes + other weapons, and there is nothing you can do because you are not able to move out from their range.
Isn't it ironic that a continent with less ranged tends to stack strenght and ironflesh even if they wouldn't neccessarily have to because they can simply dodge the few arrows that are flying on the server? And what about lighter gear and athletics in a situation where you are facing an archer? I would say agi build is more powerful since it can easilly dodge the arrows and actually catch the archer who is running away... Situation doesn't look so bright for str build because the bundle of sticks just keeps shooting you, hitting you every time while running.
Goddamn you Tears Of Destiny of Chaos...
I do not think anybody will advocate getting 9 WM for a melee non-hybrid build.I do :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
So many Einsteins & Sherlocks here that I'm certain they won't have any troubles explaining to me a situation that occurred just today on EU1:(click to show/hide)
With this build & a +3 Great Maul (47 blunt damage) i sneaked up behind an archer in a blue T-Shirt and no helmet (0 head armor, naked red-haired Russian Chap) and i slammed an overhead directly on top of his carrot-topped head but (surprise surprise !!) he didn't die, he didn't even fall down, he just turned around and ran for his life, fleeing like a hero that he is. Good game.....good game indeed.(click to show/hide)
This seems suspect since I use a non-loomed great maul with my Agi STF (18/24 6 PS) and can one shot pretty much anyone not wearing a helmet with a downswing. Let alone a peasant wearing 0 armor? Any kind of swing should be taking him out. I think this is a case of you potentially missing the open swing and glancing, or some other variable is involved. Needless to say it clearly is an anomaly.
Needless to say it clearly is an anomaly.
Just like you wielding a great maul with 18 str
So many Einsteins & Sherlocks here that I'm certain they won't have any troubles explaining to me a situation that occurred just today on EU1:
Weapon master gives you wpf which adds damage and speed into added branch of weapons.
I don't see any reason to reject extra speed and damage .
If this is the case, then why bother asking whether or not weapon master is useful? It seems like you made your decision before the discussion even began, Lysander.
make a stf alt and try a build without any wm, seeing how it works.
you can still make a high agi char, but beef him up with some IF or maybe throw a few points into shield to use against archers.
I bet you'll be pleasantly surprised with your re-allocation of skill points.
Nab Ammurricans I visited your str/no wm/no skill servers yesterday. And oh boi it was worse than EU_1 when it comes to ranged. EU_1 is a melee server compared to that. So many arrows flying that atleast I got crazy fps drop. Maybe it is something ping related since my horse was teleporting, but many others were having those lags too. So there I played cavalry as usual. I got dehorsed more because of the damned ranged everywhere while having these lags and 150 ping. But to the subject. At times I was easilly able to fight and kill many of the guys who were ganking me after dehorsing. Heavy armored and slow people chasing me like zombies. Yes they get me eventually because in 10 vs. 1 it's usually the case, but I was surprised how many I was able to kill before I had run out of space and couldn't outsmart my opponents with footwork and desperate blocking with that ping and lag (notice that I'm cavaly and I was still running faster)(click to show/hide)
True, I admit defeat; you caught me!Well played
Weapon master is by far the superior option when creating a build. My devious plots to convince others that IF and Shield are better investments is for naught!
Well played.