cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: MrShovelFace on March 01, 2011, 10:30:56 pm
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Write here your thoughts on the current monotony of cRPG and how it could be corrected, or make a counterpoint
[or insult me]
My thoughts on cRPG at the moment is that the game is failing to cater to the more adept players who just want a new experience instead of battle mode or the current state of siege mode
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Strategus will fix this :( when/if it's ever active again.
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I heard there will be new gamemodes soon ;d
Also, do you have an alt in every class?
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I have made 2 archers, one balanced but leaned more to agi. One is a pure str archer with 33 str and 3 agi wields a long bow and crushes shielders. Made a character bent specificly for running people over on a charger. Made shovelface in maybe 5-6 variations (cant remember how many char wipes we have had) Made a balb clone, made a hoplite char. Made a thrower. Made a cav on the original shovelface and a cav capable char on a later shovelface. Made an athletics pumping freak with a spiked staff. Made a short lived horsearcher. Made a shielder/thrower that didnt last that long past lvl 25. And then a dedicated knifer. A dedicated rock thrower who evolved into a char that used rocks only in melee. Loads of joke characters.
thats about as much as i can remember. Dont you remember me though?
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Well normal mode(battle, siege, and any other future modes) is a bit worse then native couse there are big differences with equipment and skills of players so it gets more frustraiting at a times. But what i think, this mod is created for role playing, so strategus helps it and makes it a mod with very high playability.
Once strategus becomes available game expiriance will be better. IMO strategus is core of this mod, something like Line battles are core of mount and musket.
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I heard there will be new gamemodes soon ;d
Also, do you have an alt in every class?
XP barn mode?
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Dont even remind me of the horrors of exp barns
as to strategus, it is never readily available and if you arent in a big clan the only way it applies to you is exp grinding
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I do remember you as crossbower...
Seems to me that you simply have been playing too much. Chillax, get some Borderlands (Cyber, come on skype you bastard) hours, conquer the world with greeks in R:TW, etc.
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all attempts to get another drug have alas failed D: but this is off topic
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What is XP barn mode?
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it derives from the snow village map on native where there is literally a barn that gets you exp.
Team A camps the barn and Team B camps outside of it. Both teams take turns shooting in and out of the barn whittling the player count down.
At the time of exp barns EXP and gold was still awarded by proximity thus you would only get exp by being close to a dying enemy.
In the exp barn it is possible for the entire server to be within the same exp proximity thus meaning that everyone who dies on the map is converted into 10+ exp for you (Or the changed value of 200ish when chadz shook up the exp values)
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I heard there will be new gamemodes soon ;d
Also, do you have an alt in every class?
Not all of us have so much expendable time
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so far still having fun, but can see it coming that the battle/siege-only-mode will soon be enough.
Having a lot of lulz, but some things could be improved (for my taste):
- having the "whole game" ported to multiplayer (part of which strategus might deliver, but so far I do not see much) would make it more appealing to strategists AND real-time battle freaks.
- in battle and siege, it would be nice if REAL teamplay and strategy would be encouraged. Right now everybody runs and tries to get some kills, and the ultimate tactics are "all to FAAAALG", "someone watch that backladder" and "keep that fucking door closed". Formations and tactical proceeding (e.g. in siege - xbows and archers lay down covering fire on an important tower, ladder guy gets ladder up on that tower, melee goes up, cleans it out, archers follow up, people group up with shielders front and sides when they go against fortifications with lots of missiles coming down, and so on... ) are rarely seen, and it it considered "boring" or even "leeching" if you stand watch at a strategically important position and STAY there, even if the enemy does not show up after 30 milliseconds. Not sure HOW this could be done - ideas include hitpoints-based toplists, bonus points for useful actions (being at flag when capturing/saving, bringing down a gate, etc.), a command structure (like the basic formation commands in single player), maybe a "General" or "Warlord"-class with proven tactical track record, etc.
- balancing weapons with emphasis on bringing damage down to realistic levels, not ramping everything up until we throw nukes at the ponyriders.
- setting battles to "slow" speed (is there such a thing?) would make things calm down a bit and make room for more strategy and team communication. Right now everything is in (modest) timelapse, so even more jump&slash and pure reflexes, less thinking.
just my 2c.
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Probably just a phase of burn-out Shovel. It happens. I'm going through one right now in fact. Been playing Global Agenda for something different the past 2 weeks, but especially the past 3 days and I just downloaded and started playing a game someone else mentioned called Vindictus (sp?). Basically it's like D3 before D3 hits and I'm diggin it. Obviously warband and c-rpg are still far more skill based than Vindictus, but the story is engaging enough for me (I like rpg stories and cinematic cut scenes) to hack my way through dungeons and get a chuckle. Also got the DA2 demo and blazed through that, might have to pre-order it.
Not going anywhere permanently though, cRPG is still by far the coolest game out. But it's good to step away for a little bit now and then just to get a breather imo.
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I also have felt the burnout. Can't put my finger on it. Things changed at patch. I'm not boo'ing the patch but something is missing. I feel like things need a change or we will start losing people. Though I have no suggestion as to what it is.
Is upkeep not enough? Is gear too cheap? Somehow the challenge is not there and I see it taxing the playerbase. Big changes needed perhaps. The current play to 31 then reroll thing is gimp I think, I feel it's the downfall of the current patch system.
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Just Cause 2 - most fun out of many alternatives.
The most monotonous is the continual whines about 2handers, cavalry, spam, etc.
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it derives from the snow village map on native where there is literally a barn that gets you exp.
Team A camps the barn and Team B camps outside of it. Both teams take turns shooting in and out of the barn whittling the player count down.
At the time of exp barns EXP and gold was still awarded by proximity thus you would only get exp by being close to a dying enemy.
In the exp barn it is possible for the entire server to be within the same exp proximity thus meaning that everyone who dies on the map is converted into 10+ exp for you (Or the changed value of 200ish when chadz shook up the exp values)
Vindictus. Now that is a good game. Too bad Nexon hates Europe.
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I keep myself entertained by trying to to get my team to use group tactics. Trying to get people to join a battalion, carry the flag around... stuff like that. When i'm doing that, i enjoy cRPG much more. It doesn't feel like a grind then. Every round is a fresh chance to win.
I often die early, leading some charge into a large group of enemies. Then i spectate. This is fun to me:
It gives me something to do when dead, which is nice. You can only spend so much time on buying equipment and pondering new builds. :rolleyes:
So when dead, i spectate. I zoom out, look at the map as a whole and try to think of a plan. You'll be amazed how much you can see if you just look at the battle from a little distance*. I'm trying to see where- and how players get advantages like: facing a single opponent with multiple players, fighting while having ranged players supporting your fight and giving an area of cover, fighting with cavalry support, etcetera.
Then i run through different scenarios in my head. Would my team be willing to (just an example) try going far left? Or do they want to camp some hill? Would flanking work or is it likely the enemy team counters that by taking up different positions? Is the other team trying tactics? Do they switch it up or use the same plan every round? Who and what are the priority targets?
And when this gets boring or repetitive, i try to entice other players to try suggesting new plans or even to lead for a few rounds. Apart from the occasional and often valid criticisms on my somewhat simplistic tactics, this generally leads to lots of positive feedback and a good atmosphere in-game.
There is so much depth and possible variation to random battles, this is an almost endless challenge. Way more interesting than the many, many other games i've played. I've even taken to creating and equipping my characters so they make a good character to lead from. Having a mount, for example, really helps. Mobility is key.
And if the tactics get boring, i start messing around with odd equipment. Buying and trying new weapons and equipment can be fun. I've also taken to trading equipment and horses at spawn, to try different heirloomed items or stuff i haven't bought yet.
But mostly, i entertain myself with the endlessly fascinating group behaviours that occur during most battles. I bet a psychology student could write an interesting paper or two on that. :D
* - I do play on a 27" monitor at 1920x1080, so there is still a lot to see when i 'zoom out'.
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I keep myself entertained by trying to to get my team to use group tactics. Trying to get people to join a battalion, carry the flag around... stuff like that. When i'm doing that, i enjoy cRPG much more. It doesn't feel like a grind then. Every round is a fresh chance to win.
I often die early, leading some charge into a large group of enemies. Then i spectate. This is fun to me:
It gives me something to do when dead, which is nice. You can only spend so much time on buying equipment and pondering new builds. :rolleyes:
So when dead, i spectate. I zoom out, look at the map as a whole and try to think of a plan. You'll be amazed how much you can see if you just look at the battle from a little distance*. I'm trying to see where- and how players get advantages like: facing a single opponent with multiple players, fighting while having ranged players supporting your fight and giving an area of cover, fighting with cavalry support, etcetera.
Then i run through different scenarios in my head. Would my team be willing to (just an example) try going far left? Or do they want to camp some hill? Would flanking work or is it likely the enemy team counters that by taking up different positions? Is the other team trying tactics? Do they switch it up or use the same plan every round? Who and what are the priority targets?
And when this gets boring or repetitive, i try to entice other players to try suggesting new plans or even to lead for a few rounds. Apart from the occasional and often valid criticisms on my somewhat simplistic tactics, this generally leads to lots of positive feedback and a good atmosphere in-game.
There is so much depth and possible variation to random battles, this is an almost endless challenge. Way more interesting than the many, many other games i've played. I've even taken to creating and equipping my characters so they make a good character to lead from. Having a mount, for example, really helps. Mobility is key.
And if the tactics get boring, i start messing around with odd equipment. Buying and trying new weapons and equipment can be fun. I've also taken to trading equipment and horses at spawn, to try different heirloomed items or stuff i haven't bought yet.
But mostly, i entertain myself with the endlessly fascinating group behaviours that occur during most battles. I bet a psychology student could write an interesting paper or two on that. :D
* - I do play on a 27" monitor at 1920x1080, so there is still a lot to see when i 'zoom out'.
This. It's especially fun when most of my clan members are around and banner balance is on. Hell, sometimes I just spectate, fraps stuff, and issue commands from an eagle's eye view.
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No patches and no strategus are certainly a cause, i'm playing less and less (i do a few matches once every 2-3 days now). Throwing needs to get patched badly, and playing the same mode over and over gets old after a while. I'm not even joining a clan because of these reasons (me not playing enough, most clans becoming more inactive, no strategus to do clan battles on).
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give back xp and gold by kill
not "general xp"
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give back xp and gold by kill
not "general xp"
So much wisdome in your words!
The current system is really a bullshit of gamedesign. Sorry
Currently developing the character is some entertainment, but the REAL motivationdriver is that you can INFLUENCE your fate by yourself not by beeing dependend from somebody else.
I know that the developer of the mod has made up some thoughts on the new XP/Gold system, but to my mind his thoughts are based on wrong assumption.
Probably some ills of the former system have been eliminated but more and even severe problems have been produced.
The current system was a really bad attempt to improve the mod, there are better ways.
PS.: I do not care about teamplay and I dont want to be depended on other people I dont know. I want to improve my skills challanging skilled players dont sit idle in front of the PC until the next round.
The mod would really be freaking awesome, if there was a killed based XP/Gold system AND Teamdeathmatch!
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I have to agree with the guys that mentioned Vindictus in this and the other thread. I'm being pretty entertained by it so far. I do miss the mechanics such as blocking (both shielded and manual) and directional attacks however I LOVE that it has a player controlled sprint feature, stamina bar, attack combo's, great physics, destructable terrain, improvised weaponry from objects (pieces of rubble, fence posts, pots/vases, enemy corpses), grappling and double tapped movements (dodges/lunge). If only we could get these things into warband somehow.... sigh.
Anyways, I do think part of the problem is that this 30-31 grind is killer. I didn't believe in abusing the broken retirement system pre-patch (with the wpf shit) and so now I have all of my toons gen 1 except gorath who finally made it to gen 2. But they're all sitting at 30 with 2 mill+ xp to go until I can retire to get an heirloom while I watch the gen10-20 guys retiring every 2 days. I think that's probably contributing to my burnout and it's probably a bit whiney but alas, it's the truth. Can't catch up and they just keep getting bigger and bigger leads. Hell I'd wager some guys like Goretooth are going to start retiring daily here shortly. So I guess part of my burnout comes from a little bit of butt-hurt and I'll just have to accept that.
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This. It's especially fun when most of my clan members are around and banner balance is on. Hell, sometimes I just spectate, fraps stuff, and issue commands from an eagle's eye view.
adnd then TS comes on and beats you.
Going through a bit of a slump myself, I just found Mass Effect so there's my temporary distraction.
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give back xp and gold by kill
not "general xp"
NO!
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i have to agree with vicious here , the new system encourage people to be lazy and leech their lvls , ive seen tons of people leeching way more than when you needed to be close and survive to get the most xp possible,
also the repair system was good when it was launched.. hard and without pity , now , its too easy to get money...
i also loathe the banner balance , yes its fun to play with guildies i wont deny that , but its totally unfair to people without a clan , there is a reason why i dont play on the ats server that much , its because of banner balance :(
and dont give me the excuse of : get in a clan , thats a simpleton way to adress a situation
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i also loathe the banner balance , yes its fun to play with guildies i wont deny that , but its totally unfair to people without a clan , there is a reason why i dont play on the ats server that much , its because of banner balance :(
and dont give me the excuse of : get in a clan , thats a simpleton way to adress a situation
So then without the banner balance what's the point of having a clan at all? Strategus only? No banner balance directly contributed to my disconnect with my clanmates prior to the patch. But maybe that's just me. I don't know why you'd rather play with randoms all the time, no such thing as teamwork on an all random "team" (and I use the word team loosely when it comes to those groups).
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I'm getting bored as well. You can build a character in two days. After a while, there's nothing left to buy. So money is just there to pay for repairs. So no money goals and no character progression. I'm really left with improving myself as a player, which is fine but not quite enough. The game has become like any standard shooter. At least with Call of Duty or the others, you can work towards meaningless achievements to keep you interested. There's just nothing to sustain longevity with crpg. One of my biggest gripes is that I believe the concept of crpg, with character building elements in a Mount and Blade world has so much potential but its not going anywhere.
I'm hoping strategus will fix some of these issues but at the rate things progress, it may be too little too late for me and a lot of folks.
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So then without the banner balance what's the point of having a clan at all? Strategus only? No banner balance directly contributed to my disconnect with my clanmates prior to the patch. But maybe that's just me. I don't know why you'd rather play with randoms all the time, no such thing as teamwork on an all random "team" (and I use the word team loosely when it comes to those groups).
yeah clans should be for strategus ONLY gamewise , you can have teamwork with random people ,
usually (not always) peoples in clans are the ones that play alot , so are better builded geared lvled etc...
so they are let's say strongs characters , well banner balance put them all together...
also ive seen case of stupid banner balancing , like there is 2 clans in the server playing and the lovely banner balance put both clans in the same side....
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NO!
no ?
i not have seen a single fucking shield wall, since this general xp patch.
previously the group where together and do tactics, no leechers also nothing block us from make a mix of the 2 system, like reduce to half the current min/gain, but add the xp/gold for kill like was pre patch, only reduced by half
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I also think the XP gain needs a change. I suggest nerfing the regular XP countera lot (maybe to 100 exp/min), and reintroduce XP for kills, but make them based on your own and your victim's player level. So if you killed someone twice your level, you get twice the normal kill XP. If you are above or equal in level, you get 1x kill exp.
Even better would be to make it damage-based, so that killsteals don't happen. Maybe something like XP = DMG * (level of opponent / your level).
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yeah clans should be for strategus ONLY gamewise , you can have teamwork with random people ,
I disagree with the randoms, they're worthless and the best "teamwork" you get out of them is maybe not getting tk'd as much. Randoms = Rambo's. You can have good rambo's, but they're rambo's nonetheless. You yourself are a rambo Balb, the only thing is that you can rambo yourself to 30/2 kdrs which can carry your team of randoms to victory. If clans are only for strat then there's not much point to have any tie to a clan other than the largest one in the game in order to zerg the most property.
i not have seen a single fucking shield wall, since this general xp patch.
I saw tons of shieldwalls... And then everyone started making 24+ str characters with heirloomed barmaces and I haven't seen a shieldwall since except for very rare moments which only last as long as it takes for the crush through guys to get there.
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I could of retired multiple times prepatch and never took advantage because I had no idea it would be like this now. I also find watching the 10-20 gen players just retiring repeatedly even still seems odd. If the new system implemented is to be so harsh about retirmement shouldn't we have been balanced to begin with? I'm 3rd gen and it feels like that gap is growing and growing, and lets be honest - playing just to retire got boring the first time around.
I know chadz made his statement after patch and said this was how HE wanted the game, but I am thinking perhaps with this much player base complaining maybe things should be re-adjusted. How? I don't know? But things need to change or we will lose players.
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chadz said from the beginning that cRPG is just the little part of huge mod he is making. Strategus will be the ultimate game when its released. cRPG get boring because there is no strategus atm, thus not much of teamplay.
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I have never played strategus
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I disagree with the randoms, they're worthless and the best "teamwork" you get out of them is maybe not getting tk'd as much. Randoms = Rambo's. You can have good rambo's, but they're rambo's nonetheless. You yourself are a rambo Balb, the only thing is that you can rambo yourself to 30/2 kdrs which can carry your team of randoms to victory.
RAMBO RACE MACEATHON, Balbasaur you're awesomesauce don't listen to Gorath he's being strongbad
the way I play is for fun, I change my build each retire, I don't think randoms are worthless as a quality random myself for life*brofist to all* teamwork is something all players can work at, whether that means at least trying to play near your team so they take advantage more of your successes(try to protect you from your failures) or if you're actually able to do something more......
PS gorath you should play man you could retire reasonably if you just stuck to one char, and I don't have heirloomed armor *and never will just against my need to change costumes*and you don't really need that to kill kill kill
I mean the simplest team tactic to share with anyone who reads is follow someone like who does well into combat, fight together and do your best to help out, some of the easiest things to do are preventing double teams more than involving yourself in say an allied balbaroth 1 v 1
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PS gorath you should play man you could retire reasonably if you just stuck to one char, and I don't have heirloomed armor *and never will just against my need to change costumes*and you don't really need that to kill kill kill
Can't stick to one character because unlike pre-patch I can't build a 4 weapon hybrid anymore :( That's why I did it originally. I can't just play the same style day in and day out without variation. I'd quit the game. In fact I have a hard time sticking to one play-style for more than 4-5 maps, much less weeks at a time waiting to retire JUST so I can change it up.
If I could build my toon like he used to be, with prof in 4 different weapon types, then I'd stick to one guy. As is even getting ONE of them to retire is taking for fucking ever. I don't care about heirlooming the armor man, it's the weapons I want. And no, you don't need them, but as you said I never use the top tier weapons anyways so the only way to get half decent stats on the weapons I use now is going to be to heirloom them to keep up with all the gen10's with mw everything.
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Can't stick to one character because unlike pre-patch I can't build a 4 weapon hybrid anymore :( That's why I did it originally. I can't just play the same style day in and day out without variation. I'd quit the game. In fact I have a hard time sticking to one play-style for more than 4-5 maps, much less weeks at a time waiting to retire JUST so I can change it up.
If I could build my toon like he used to be, with prof in 4 different weapon types, then I'd stick to one guy. As is even getting ONE of them to retire is taking for fucking ever. I don't care about heirlooming the armor man, it's the weapons I want. And no, you don't need them, but as you said I never use the top tier weapons anyways so the only way to get half decent stats on the weapons I use now is going to be to heirloom them to keep up with all the gen10's with mw everything.
rumours at the local taverns indicate some people are 25+ gen already gorath , get on with the program :D im just 15 btw
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rumours at the local taverns indicate some people are 25+ gen already gorath , get on with the program :D im just 15 btw
:evil:
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The grind between 30 and 31 is killing it for me. would make game mor interesting if I could retire and try new character possibilities with hierlooms and respec.
but yeah I guess eventually Id get bored anyway but what do people fucking expect its not a pay to play mmorpg its just a mod of a indie stand alone game.
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The grind between 30 and 31 is killing it for me. would make game mor interesting if I could retire and try new character possibilities with hierlooms and respec.
+1
but i think this game offers a whole bunch of oportunities; you can play with so many classes and hybrids, that it's easy to get some change all the time.
i look forward to strategus though :D
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Can't stick to one character because unlike pre-patch I can't build a 4 weapon hybrid anymore :( That's why I did it originally. I can't just play the same style day in and day out without variation. I'd quit the game. In fact I have a hard time sticking to one play-style for more than 4-5 maps, much less weeks at a time waiting to retire JUST so I can change it up.
If I could build my toon like he used to be, with prof in 4 different weapon types, then I'd stick to one guy. As is even getting ONE of them to retire is taking for fucking ever. I don't care about heirlooming the armor man, it's the weapons I want. And no, you don't need them, but as you said I never use the top tier weapons anyways so the only way to get half decent stats on the weapons I use now is going to be to heirloom them to keep up with all the gen10's with mw everything.
I think the magic number is .. 31. that's the amount of wpf my latest build has in 1-h, 2h, and polearms, with 117 in throwing. So you can easily do 4 different weapon types with one guy.
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Fix ranged spam (archers are fine, throwing is beyond broken and crossbows (once heirloomed) are as well) and this might you know... be ... fun? What does that even mean!?
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I realize chadz is working on that big strategus project. I think that right now we need a smaller patch to keep going, that does (among other things i'll surely forget to mention) the following:
- rebalance throwing, cav, weapon requirements, and so on
- check why the servers have lagspikes, it's not invidual people's connection because when i check with tab i see everyone getting spikes randomly
- revise the upkeep/gold/xp system to make all playstyles possible and to reward personal skill more while keeping teamwork in the equation (i would suggest to keep global as it is but add bonus in a small area for kills, this would prevent also killwhoring since everyone nearby gets the bonus and not just the killer)
- after this patch, work on a smaller strategus option so we can start playing strategus (or start again for older players. i never played strategus and i've been here for a while)
If chadz doesn't have the time to keep working on crpg, maybe the other devs can help him out ?
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I realize chadz is working on that big strategus project. I think that right now we need a smaller patch to keep going, that does (among other things i'll surely forget to mention) the following:
- rebalance throwing, cav, weapon requirements, and so on
- check why the servers have lagspikes, it's not invidual people's connection because when i check with tab i see everyone getting spikes randomly
- revise the upkeep/gold/xp system to make all playstyles possible and to reward personal skill more while keeping teamwork in the equation (i would suggest to keep global as it is but add bonus in a small area for kills, this would prevent also killwhoring since everyone nearby gets the bonus and not just the killer)
- after this patch, work on a smaller strategus option so we can start playing strategus (or start again for older players. i never played strategus and i've been here for a while)
If chadz doesn't have the time to keep working on crpg, maybe the other devs can help him out ?
exactly my thought, i know that i will keep playing this game for atleast some months, but it seems like tehre are people leaving our awesome mod because hey're tired of waiting.
We shouldnt let that happen :(
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Ganon, you are absolutly right.
Especially the Xp bonus over a small area seems nice to me. When I started it was very exciting to be a peasent and go to the (dangerous) battlefront in order to get xp shared. But since I started after the patch, my idea was senseless as there is only Xp over time :(
Actually I am grinding just in hope to have a useful and rewarding xp system one day...